Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Spencer Hastings]

I read an article today where the writer says “We (millennials) hide our emotions behind emojis.” If that isn’t Jill...

[ChocolateAddict]

I just wanted to comment on why Joy and Austin would share such personal pictures with hundreds of thousands of people. I have not lost a baby but I have friends who have and shared similar photos on social media. 

For them, posting these pictures on Facebook/Instagram was a way of saying my baby was loved, my baby was real and I will not be ashamed of speaking about my child. It was about publically recognising that their baby will forever be part of their family and sharing their love. It was a way of saying to other people that they would not hide or be ashamed of what happened to their child. 

Joy and Austin may be finding comfort in sharing Annabell Elise with the world. It could be that they feel that her life is validated because they are speaking about her publically and recognising her short existence. By having her on their Instagram feed it says that they are proud of her and want her to be recognised as their child. This is also an expression of their faith. For a young Christian couple used to sharing their lives publically, this is an expression of how their faith and hope in God is helping through a painful, traumatic time. 

I think it's heartless to suggest that they are simply doing this for clicks and views. Joy and Austin are two young people who have experienced heartbreaking loss and come from a culture where this sort of grief is often unaddressed. In that context, speaking about it on social media could well be cathartic and it could provide some measure of comfort to hear to know that others are praying from them and Annabell Elise. When you don't get that sort of support from your own family, it's human to seek it elsewhere. For Joy in particular, support and love from strangers may be a comfort for her.   

This is all to say that I see these posts as being a way for Joy and Austin to share both their love for Annabell Elise and their grief at having lost her. And I'm not going to critique how a grieving couple wants to share the story of their loss. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by ChocolateAddict

[farmgal4]

4 hours ago, Lunera said:

I don't think Kelly gets it. 

Kelly is the one who posted a picture of TWO DEAD BABIES a couple of weeks ago.  She apparently has no common sense and is completely unable to judge what is appropriate for SM and what isn’t.  She needs to sit down, STFU and mind her own damn business.  JMHO

[cereality]

Haven’t read the pages of opinion here as I just heard about this a few days ago and don’t pay attention to the Duggars much when they aren’t in season – I’m sorry but those pics look 100% staged.  I’m not saying they aren’t sad – I’m sure they are.  But shouting out to Carlin for coming to do her hair and makeup and then getting perfect angles of pics when Austin’s forehead against hers in the initial post announcing the news, posed pics with Carlin in the hospital bed. Come on.  We get it – Armies for Jesus and all . . . but if you don’t keep some things private, even though it is totally your right to share them, normal people are going to say – you’re doing it to be an attention whore and keep your story in the spotlight for its entire 15 minutes. And I’m sorry no one needs to see pics of your stillborn. Again I’m not saying they aren’t hurting, I’m not saying they shouldn’t have taken pics, I’m not saying she couldn’t have had hair and makeup done for said pics – though I do find that freaking weird for a grieving mom – but it’s the sharing of the pics that screams STAGED for ATTENTION.

Guess this pushes Si's wife out of the spotlight. How much longer can she scream about a heavy period when Joy had to birth a stillborn??

Do they know what happened? Is Joy one of the ones that sees a dr. for prenatal care or is that just Joe's wife and Joy sees Jilly Muffin?

[drafan]

30 minutes ago, cereality said:

Haven’t read the pages of opinion here as I just heard about this a few days ago and don’t pay attention to the Duggars much when they aren’t in season – I’m sorry but those pics look 100% staged.  I’m not saying they aren’t sad – I’m sure they are.  But shouting out to Carlin for coming to do her hair and makeup and then getting perfect angles of pics when Austin’s forehead against hers in the initial post announcing the news, posed pics with Carlin in the hospital bed. Come on.  We get it – Armies for Jesus and all . . . but if you don’t keep some things private, even though it is totally your right to share them, normal people are going to say – you’re doing it to be an attention whore and keep your story in the spotlight for its entire 15 minutes. And I’m sorry no one needs to see pics of your stillborn. Again I’m not saying they aren’t hurting, I’m not saying they shouldn’t have taken pics, I’m not saying she couldn’t have had hair and makeup done for said pics – though I do find that freaking weird for a grieving mom – but it’s the sharing of the pics that screams STAGED for ATTENTION.

Guess this pushes Si's wife out of the spotlight. How much longer can she scream about a heavy period when Joy had to birth a stillborn??

Do they know what happened? Is Joy one of the ones that sees a dr. for prenatal care or is that just Joe's wife and Joy sees Jilly Muffin?

Agree with this 100%. I just don't get it. Miscarriages happen all the time. I know many, many people who have had one or several. Granted, Joy's was farther along, but I still don't see the need to make it into a media event. They can't show their knees, collarbones, or shoulders, but they share this ?? YMMV, but I don't understand it. At. All.

And, I hate to say it, but "miscarriage" categories are all over Pinterest.

Edited July 6, 2019 by drafan

[farmgal4]

15 minutes ago, cereality said:

Haven’t read the pages of opinion here as I just heard about this a few days ago and don’t pay attention to the Duggars much when they aren’t in season – I’m sorry but those pics look 100% staged.  I’m not saying they aren’t sad – I’m sure they are.  But shouting out to Carlin for coming to do her hair and makeup and then getting perfect angles of pics when Austin’s forehead against hers in the initial post announcing the news, posed pics with Carlin in the hospital bed. Come on.  We get it – Armies for Jesus and all . . . but if you don’t keep some things private, even though it is totally your right to share them, normal people are going to say – you’re doing it to be an attention whore and keep your story in the spotlight for its entire 15 minutes. And I’m sorry no one needs to see pics of your stillborn. Again I’m not saying they aren’t hurting, I’m not saying they shouldn’t have taken pics, I’m not saying she couldn’t have had hair and makeup done for said pics – though I do find that freaking weird for a grieving mom – but it’s the sharing of the pics that screams STAGED for ATTENTION.

Guess this pushes Si's wife out of the spotlight. How much longer can she scream about a heavy period when Joy had to birth a stillborn??

Do they know what happened? Is Joy one of the ones that sees a dr. for prenatal care or is that just Joe's wife and Joy sees Jilly Muffin?

I cannot imagine ever feeling like having my hair done and makeup applied after delivering a stillborn baby.  I would be very close to inconsolable, if that had happened to me.  Those pics WERE staged, every damn one of them.  I don’t know whose idea it was, but I’m 99% sure it wasn’t Austin’s.  I’m very curious to know who orchestrated all of it.

[mynextmistake]

36 minutes ago, ChocolateAddict said:

I just wanted to comment on why Joy and Austin would share such personal pictures with hundreds of thousands of people. I have not lost a baby but I have friends who have and shared similar photos on social media. 

For them, posting these pictures on Facebook/Instagram was a way of saying my baby was loved, my baby was real and I will not be ashamed of speaking about my child. It was about publically recognising that their baby will forever be part of their family and sharing their love. It was a way of saying to other people that they would not hide or be ashamed of what happened to their child. 

Joy and Austin may be finding comfort in sharing Annabell Elise with the world. It could be that they feel that her life is validated because they are speaking about her publically and recognising her short existence. By having her on their Instagram feed it says that they are proud of her and want her to be recognised as their child. This is also an expression of their faith. For a young Christian couple used to sharing their lives publically, this is an expression of how their faith and hope in God is helping through a painful, traumatic time. 

I think it's heartless to suggest that they are simply doing this for clicks and views. Joy and Austin are two young people who have experienced heartbreaking loss and come from a culture where this sort of grief is often unaddressed. In that context, speaking about it on social media could well be cathartic and it could provide some measure of comfort to hear to know that others are praying from them and Annabell Elise. When you don't get that sort of support from your own family, it's human to seek it elsewhere. For Joy in particular, support and love from strangers may be a comfort for her.   

This is all to say that I see these posts as being a way for Joy and Austin to share both their love for Annabell Elise and their grief at having lost her. And I'm not going to critique how a grieving couple wants to share the story of their loss. 

ITA. I shared similar sentiments in an earlier post that got deleted. I also wanted to add that there are practical considerations here. Joy shared the fact that she was pregnant on social media. Now that she isn’t pregnant anymore, it makes total sense that she would share that on social media as well. Nobody wants to make hundreds of phone calls to family and friends to explain a stillborn baby. Similarly, nobody wants to deal with hundreds of people coming up to them and asking them about the baby over the next six months either.  She needed a way to get the message out quickly and easily, and social media fit the bill. Also, for people who don’t know how Instagram works (I was one until quite recently), you can’t put a textual post up on Instagram. It has to be an image. So they didn’t really have the choice of just breaking the news without any illustration of their grief.

I just don’t think they feel forced or coerced into sharing these photos, and I don’t think they did it because they wanted likes or clicks. I think that, for whatever reason, it made them feel better. It might not be the way I would’ve chosen to grieve, but everybody is allowed to grieve in their own way.

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

Joy was very young when they joined the TLC gravy-train.  She is probably so used to sharing intimate moments with the world that is comes second nature.  Just look at how young she was at the beginning of it all:

For some perspective, this wasn't much after four of these girls were molested by their older brother. 

[Fostersmom]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

There's a picture of Joy holding Annabelle with Austin, Jill and Michelle.

Joy looks devastated, Austin looks to be in shock, Jill looks like she's examining the baby and I swear, although her mouth is not in the picture, I swear Michelle is smiling.

I think Michelle looks like she’s smiling too. The eyes are telling.

[Spencer Hastings]

1 hour ago, ChocolateAddict said:

For them, posting these pictures on Facebook/Instagram was a way of saying my baby was loved, my baby was real and I will not be ashamed of speaking about my child. It was about publically recognising that their baby will forever be part of their family and sharing their love. It was a way of saying to other people that they would not hide or be ashamed of what happened to their child. 

Joy and Austin may be finding comfort in sharing Annabell Elise with the world. It could be that they feel that her life is validated because they are speaking about her publically and recognising her short existence. By having her on their Instagram feed it says that they are proud of her and want her to be recognised as their child. This is also an expression of their faith. For a young Christian couple used to sharing their lives publically, this is an expression of how their faith and hope in God is helping through a painful, traumatic time. 

Beautifully said.  My friend lost two babies back to back at around the same gestational age.  She posted very beautiful pictures of both of them, and she was the first I’ve seen do such a thing.  She just posted about how awesome it is to see Joy and Austin acknowledge their loss, and while it is triggering for her it is also therapeutic because talking about these things is becoming less taboo.  Why they posted it doesn’t matter, but if they are helping themselves and other families through the healing process then good on them. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[yogi2014L]

On 7/3/2019 at 10:47 PM, Sew Sumi said:

I know it's probably too soon, but I can't help but wonder if Joy's woo diet (zero carbs to lose baby weight that she kept up even after she lost all that weight and thensome) had something to do with this? She pimped out the diet on IG a few times. Bobby Ballinger's mother (Joy's BIL through Austin's sister) was her "coach." 

Sorry, but I felt that it needed to be said.

People literally smoke crack and somehow have healthy children, I doubt her keto had anything to do with it. 

[Rescue Mama]

2 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

The pic of Joy and Austin with Annabelle. I lost it again. I hope Joy doesn't blame herself or think God is punishing her for something. With her upbringing, I could see her feeling that way.  I thought God was punishing me. It took a long time to get past that. It seems like Austin is being a supportive loving husband, which is what she needs. 

The look on Joy's face in the second to last picture is what got me.  I couldn't see the screen for a few minutes after seeing it, I was tearing up so much. 

[Churchhoney]

11 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

lso, for people who don’t know how Instagram works (I was one until quite recently), you can’t put a textual post up on Instagram. It has to be an image. So they didn’t really have the choice of just breaking the news without any illustration of their grief.

One thing -- They could have posted a picture of a flower or a doorway or a piece of paper with a bible verse on it or anything at all. They had all the choice in the world about what pictures to use to accompany a message. 

But, for the record, I don't think they did anything wrong at all by choosing to send out the pictures that they did. What could possibly be wrong about it? The pictures are theirs to use as they choose. 

What I do think, though, is that it suggests they may be looking for love in all the wrong places -- i.e., from a couple million random strangers who like to follow young women they've watched on tv.

And I hope they realize that nobody really finds love and support from a group of their online fans or from a group of their "fans," period...and that exposing too much to those fans or appearing to seek intimacy with them can sometimes even be dangerous and damaging. It's the appearance of seeking intimacy with a couple million random strangers who watch you in the media -- at a time when you're at your most vulnerable -- that I find worrisome. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[JennyMominFL]

8 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

One thing -- They could have posted a picture of a flower or a doorway or a piece of paper with a bible verse on it or anything at all. They had all the choice in the world about what pictures to use to accompany a message. 

But, for the record, I don't think they did anything wrong at all by choosing to send out the pictures that they did. What could possibly be wrong about it? The pictures are theirs to use as they choose. 

What I do think, though, is that it suggests they may be looking for love in all the wrong places -- i.e., from a couple million random strangers who like to follow young women they've watched on 

And I hope they realize that nobody really finds love and support in a group of their online fans or in a group of "fans," period...and that exposing too much to those fans or appearing to seek intimacy with them can sometimes even be dangerous and damaging. It's the appearance of seeking intimacy with a couple million random strangers who watch you in the media -- at a time when you're at your most vulnerable -- that I find worrisome. 

I can tell you from my own personal experiences deep in a fandom that the last part is not  always true.   I know deep lifelong friendships that have emerged from the fan/celeb atmosphere.  I have close friendships with people involved in a world famous show. We have traveled together, spent holidays together, visited other countries together. Celebs are just people who want connections like everyone else

My story is not unique at all

Edited July 6, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[Fallacy]

I really do feel awful for Joy and Austin. They must be absolutely devastated. This was to be their first little girl, and I’m sure they were both thrilled to bits when they found out they were having a little sister for Gideon. Now all those hopes and all that excitement are gone, and they are left to grieve.

For once, I’m okay with their faith because it really will give them some comfort during this time. I’m an agnostic, so I would just have to suffer the loss with no assurances that I would be reunited with my daughter in the afterlife. Their genuine belief that they will see their daughter again helps, I think.

If you zoom in on the picture with Jill and Michelle, you can see a tear that has fallen down to Joy’s chin. That one tear breaks my heart for them. 

My only complaint is that others are using their loss and their Instagram posts to promote the a “pro-life” agenda. But that’s not Joy and Austin’s fault. I also saw people telling them that they shouldn’t post these pictures at all and that they are using their dead child to get a payday out of People magazine, comments I found equally offensive. In short, I really don’t get why people feel free to post crap like that on social media. 

I only post about the Duggars here because I don’t think they actually read my posts, and it’s fun to talk to other about a tv show I’ve been watching for about a decade now.  I don’t go on social media and tell them what I think about them as it’s not my place to do so  

[WalrusGirl]

28 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

One thing -- They could have posted a picture of a flower or a doorway or a piece of paper with a bible verse on it or anything at all. They had all the choice in the world about what pictures to use to accompany a message. 

...

And I hope they realize that nobody really finds love and support in a group of their online fans or in a group of "fans," period...and that exposing too much to those fans or appearing to seek intimacy with them can sometimes even be dangerous and damaging. It's the appearance of seeking intimacy with a couple million random strangers who watch you in the media -- at a time when you're at your most vulnerable -- that I find worrisome. 

To the first, yeah, anyone can just post a screenshot of typed text in a notes app - I’ve done it as the first in a series of awesome-family-surgical images (as a cover and explanation before anyone swiped), and people/celebs/companies do it all the time on Twitter (to post a full statement with real sentences and spelling, beyond the character limit) and Instagram. They didn’t *have* to post a photo-image at all, and like you mentioned, a placeholder image, rainbow, etc etc would have also sufficed to allow their written caption to stand alone if they wanted.

But I understand their choosing that first photo especially (I don’t think that one was staged so much as someone with them capturing the exchange and their loving the image later), and wanting to later (it’s been a week since this happened) post some of their photos with the baby. I’m not saying they’re fine already, but these weren’t impulsively posted in the moment - they sat on it for a week before making the announcement.

Re the latter bit, I’m not concerned about their looking for love or intimacy in the wrong places - they aren’t among the kidults who are more slaves to social media and constant posters, and it doesn’t seem that they really reply much to comments and questions from strangers/fans, unless it’s to push back on criticism that’s more widespread (Jessa) without issuing a whole new post directly responding or to answer some branding question that they have every financial motive to respond to. I certainly don’t think Joy’s having direct IG conversations with her commenting fans. I think she’s got one of the healthier relationships with SM, especially given her age, and uses it for her own purposes. She’s seeing the mass of supportive comments and hearts/broken heart emojis, but I sincerely doubt she ever reads most (on normal posts) or all on this, etc. YMMV, but if she were someone I knew in my personal IG or FB feed, her use just isn’t raising any mental health, SM addiction, neediness, or attention-whoring flags for me.

Edited July 6, 2019 by WalrusGirl
Added last sentence

[truebluesmoky]

I hope that if she does want to get pregnant again quickly and succeeds, people don’t judge her for that choice. It is possible to grieve a loss and still move forward to have a much wanted living child. There can be comfort, too, in having a child after a loss and realizing that you wouldn’t have had that particular child without having had the loss. It can help make sense of the whole horrible situation.

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, WalrusGirl said:

YMMV, but if she were someone I knew in my personal IG or FB feed, her use just isn’t raising any mental health, SM addiction, neediness, or attention-whoring flags for me.

I think Joy is definitely one of the least addicted to social media of the entire family. I think if Jessa, Jill, or Jinger were put in a permanent social media time out, they'd probably have to be locked in a rubber room. I don't think it matters as much to Joy. 

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

I cannot imagine ever feeling like having my hair done and makeup applied after delivering a stillborn baby.  I would be very close to inconsolable, if that had happened to me.  Those pics WERE staged, every damn one of them.  I don’t know whose idea it was, but I’m 99% sure it wasn’t Austin’s.  I’m very curious to know who orchestrated all of it.

I completely agree with you. I have been reading all of these posts about Joy "posting" these pictures, but we don't know that that's true. She and Austin obviously didn't take the pictures, and we don't know that she asked anyone to post them. This seems much more like a decision that JB would make and explain it as part of the "ministry." I don't even think it would occur to Joy to think that it was her decision to make, and I would doubt that her social media presence is high on her list of priorities right now.

[Marigold]

I've had 7 losses. I think putting up the pictures was fine. They were tasteful.  I like that Joy shared her loss and opened up a conversation about pregnancy loss. It was very sad but I did enjoy looking at them.  I love photography and how it can tell a story. 

The only thing that I didn't care for was the shout out for the hair and make up. I think they were doing a photo shoot and wanted Joy to have a beautiful family picture. I get it. It just sounded weird...made me think it was staged and attention seeking.  My opinion is to skip the picture of Carlin, the hair/make up shout out and just post the family pictures with Annabell. Tell the story of your daughter minus the other stuff. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Marigold

[BitterApple]

8 minutes ago, Marigold said:

My opinion is to skip the picture of Carlin, the hair/make up shout out and just post the family pictures with Annabell. Tell the story of your daughter minus the other stuff. 

I think that's where the Duggars could benefit from some social media coaching. Mentioning the hair and make up makes it seem like Joy was getting glammed up for prom. 

[Marigold]

Just now, BitterApple said:

I think that's where the Duggars could benefit from some social media coaching. Mentioning the hair and make up makes it seem like Joy was getting glammed up for prom. 

Exactly.  

It is out of place in the context of what has happened and what the topic/discussion is about. 

[mynextmistake]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I think that's where the Duggars could benefit from some social media coaching. Mentioning the hair and make up makes it seem like Joy was getting glammed up for prom. 

But at the same time, if Joy hadn’t mentioned that 1) Carlin did her hair and makeup and 2) why Carlin did her hair and makeup, I feel like there would be people who would be saying “that bitch, she obviously didn’t give a damn about her dead baby since she was able to spend an hour tarting herself up so she’d look good for the spread in People magazine.” I think the shoutout was necessary to give some context. Some people will still think she’s shallow, but I think a lot of people probably read that and thought “oh, okay, that makes sense.”

Edited July 6, 2019 by mynextmistake

[mynextmistake]

5 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

The pic of Joy and Austin with Annabelle. I lost it again. I hope Joy doesn't blame herself or think God is punishing her for something. With her upbringing, I could see her feeling that way.  I thought God was punishing me. It took a long time to get past that. It seems like Austin is being a supportive loving husband, which is what she needs. 

You know, I hope this doesn’t sound weird or anything, but I wanted to comment on how much I like your presence on these boards. It sounds like you have had a lot of heartbreak to overcome in your life, but you still manage to be funny and positive and supportive of other posters. I really appreciate that. I think you must be a really strong person, and I have enjoyed “getting to know you“ on the boards. Again, not trying to be weird, just wanted you to know you have a fan. 

Plus, I very much get the sense that Mini Mistake and your twins would really get along. Moms of spirited girls unite! 😀

[Snow Fairy]

How did Michelle cope after Jubilee? Did she blame herself?

[Sew Sumi]

5 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

How did Michelle cope after Jubilee? Did she blame herself?

At the ultrasound reveal, she said, "The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the Lord." That's how I think she coped, putting it in God's hands.

[Snow Fairy]

So she did not blame herself that she wasn't godly enough? Maybe Joy will take it the same

[mynextmistake]

1 hour ago, Snow Fairy said:

So she did not blame herself that she wasn't godly enough? Maybe Joy will take it the same

I’m more concerned about Austin than Joy in this regard. I absolutely believe that they are both distraught over losing their child, but it seems from those pictures like Austin is having to work harder to hold it together than Joy is. Part of that is doubtless the toxic masculinity that is inherent in fundie world — men don’t cry, even when their babies die, so he doesn’t have a socially acceptable outlet for his feelings. But I think it’s also that Joy (and I truly don’t mean this in an unkind way at all) isn’t a deep thinker and doesn’t seem to be particularly prone to regrets. She seems to take life as it comes and realize that you have to play the hand you’re dealt, even if it sucks, because sometimes bad things just happen. She will mourn her child, but I don’t think she’ll torture herself with what-ifs. Austin, OTOH, seems more introspective and serious. I think he’s the type to chew over things and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he blamed himself for this in some way. 

[GeeGolly]

The make-up and Carlin pictures gave me pause because to me grief and make-up don't go together. One is somber and one is not. But in reality this isn't true. Folks don't show up to funerals bedraggled to emphasize their grief. 

I just don't see an agenda with Joy's posts about her loss. I don't think the posts were for clicks or sympathy. I think the posts were to share a significant life event. This event happens to be heartbreaking. There's no rule that only joyous occasions should be shared and tragedies should be hidden.

The Duggars have put themselves between a rock and a hard place. If simple Joy can bring out such strong feelings from all of us, I can only imagine the feelings we'd all have if this was Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Jeremy, or Lauren.

[NotthebadVictoria]

7 hours ago, Marigold said:

I've had 7 losses. I think putting up the pictures was fine. They were tasteful.  I like that Joy shared her loss and opened up a conversation about pregnancy loss. It was very sad but I did enjoy looking at them.  I love photography and how it can tell a story. 

The only thing that I didn't care for was the shout out for the hair and make up. I think they were doing a photo shoot and wanted Joy to have a beautiful family picture. I get it. It just sounded weird...made me think it was staged and attention seeking.  My opinion is to skip the picture of Carlin, the hair/make up shout out and just post the family pictures with Annabell. Tell the story of your daughter minus the other stuff. 

I honestly think she did the shout out because people were eating Carlin alive over her posted photos, so Joy added some context to it to defend Carlin. I doubt most people read her reply to Carlin’s post. 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

I can tell you from my own personal experiences deep in a fandom that the last part is not  always true.   I know deep lifelong friendships that have emerged from the fan/celeb atmosphere.  I have close friendships with people involved in a world famous show. We have traveled together, spent holidays together, visited other countries together. Celebs are just people who want connections like everyone else

My story is not unique at all

Oh, I agree that good things can come out of it too. That's a great story you have, and I'm glad those connections were made. 

I just still think caution is warranted when you're tempted to broadcast your most vulnerable moments to, literally, millions of strangers! 🙂

Edited July 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

ITA. I shared similar sentiments in an earlier post that got deleted. I also wanted to add that there are practical considerations here. Joy shared the fact that she was pregnant on social media. Now that she isn’t pregnant anymore, it makes total sense that she would share that on social media as well. Nobody wants to make hundreds of phone calls to family and friends to explain a stillborn baby. Similarly, nobody wants to deal with hundreds of people coming up to them and asking them about the baby over the next six months either.  She needed a way to get the message out quickly and easily, and social media fit the bill. Also, for people who don’t know how Instagram works (I was one until quite recently), you can’t put a textual post up on Instagram. It has to be an image. So they didn’t really have the choice of just breaking the news without any illustration of their grief.

I just don’t think they feel forced or coerced into sharing these photos, and I don’t think they did it because they wanted likes or clicks. I think that, for whatever reason, it made them feel better. It might not be the way I would’ve chosen to grieve, but everybody is allowed to grieve in their own way.

It has to be an image, but it doesn't have to be of the grieving family.  They could have posted a picture of the flowers in their yard or gotten a stock photo online of a rainbow or whatever and posted that along with an announcement that Joy lost the baby, that it was a girl named Annabel Elise and that they were grateful for prayers and good wishes.  The End.

They made a choice to share much more than that publicly.  It's their Instagram, they can do what they want, but it is clear that a decision was made to share a whole lot more than just the news of the pregnancy loss. While the photos are lovely and heartbreaking, they are also clearly professionally staged.  I've explained how that might've happened and how it happens for other grieving parents.  Joy and Austin chose to share them which is their right and I hope it helps them, but many others would say that sharing those intimate moments with 2 million strangers is perhaps not necessary.

Many celebs have private instagrams in addition to their public platforms.  Joy and Austin could easily have one, too, and have shared photos there along with a message not to share them elsewhere

[GeeGolly]

12 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Comments under the most recent Instagram posted above:

Is this a new response from Jill? If it is, I'm a tad impressed if she's standing her ground on her immature and excessive use of emojis. Go Jill. 👏❕📱🤣🤳🙃😂

[sleepysuzy]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Is this a new response from Jill? If it is, I'm a tad impressed if she's standing her ground on her immature and excessive use of emojis. Go Jill. 👏❕📱🤣🤳🙃😂

To be fair, Austin and Joy's message to which she was responding also contained 4 emojis. 

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Is this a new response from Jill? If it is, I'm a tad impressed if she's standing her ground on her immature and excessive use of emojis. Go Jill. 👏❕📱🤣🤳🙃😂

Yep, I doubt Jill understands or cares why anyone else thinks putting a dozen emojis on a message about grief is tacky.  She seems to operate at the maturity level of a 12 year old, IMO.  I expect that, if she read the negative remarks, they made her dig in her heels and vow to plaster even more emojis on her next post.  She's very 6th grade that way. I find it kind of endearing, if sad.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, sleepysuzy said:

To be fair, Austin and Joy's message to which she was responding also contained 4 emojis. 

The emojis don’t bother me. It’s a social media post. I didn’t see anything wrong with anyone using them in comments, unless it was to insult or belittle a grieving person (that would be wrong). Jill used them, Joy and Austin used them, Carlin used them.....

It’s just an emoji. 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, WalrusGirl said:

 they aren’t among the kidults who are more slaves to social media and constant posters, 

Yeah, I agree with you completely about this. I think that's one reason it's worried me! 

I've seen Joy as one of the ones with a quite healthy -- i.e., arms' length and rational -- approach to the social media.

So seeing her expose so much here and seeing so many people talk about how she'll get such great comfort and love from doing it has freaked me out. i think her arms' length approach is the realistic way to do this, so I've wondered whether her vulnerability here is pulling her to take the whole thing more personally and crave more personal return from it than she has in the past. 

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I think that's where the Duggars could benefit from some social media coaching. Mentioning the hair and make up makes it seem like Joy was getting glammed up for prom. 

Yeah, they'd benefit. 

But remember back when the Josh thing happened? And JB and M took the first steps toward hiring a PR guy with experience helping Christian celebrities deal with problematic issues? 

And the guy came to Arkansas for an extended meeting? And then he left and no PR or crisis-management person was hired? 

And then the guy was interviewed by a couple of Christian press outlets. And he said, yeah, he'd met at length with the Duggars. 

But ultimately he couldn't work for them because their conversation made it clear they would never actually heed a word he said. 

Yeah. 

That's kind of what would happen with a good social-media coach, too, I imagine. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

I’m more concerned about Austin than Joy in this regard. I absolutely believe that they are both distraught over losing their child, but it seems from those pictures like Austin is having to work harder to hold it together than Joy is. Part of that is doubtless the toxic masculinity that is inherent in fundie world — men don’t cry, even when their babies die, so he doesn’t have a socially acceptable outlet for his feelings. But I think it’s also that Joy (and I truly don’t mean this in an unkind way at all) isn’t a deep thinker and doesn’t seem to be particularly prone to regrets. She seems to take life as it comes and realize that you have to play the hand you’re dealt, even if it sucks, because sometimes bad things just happen. She will mourn her child, but I don’t think she’ll torture herself with what-ifs. Austin, OTOH, seems more introspective and serious. I think he’s the type to chew over things and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he blamed himself for this in some way. 

I sort of see Joy the same way. But then I wonder about her being the only Duggar we've heard of to have -- apparently -- seriously questioned the faith and the cult. That makes me wonder whether there isn't more churning around underneath than we think and that she just has always hidden that. 

I think you're dead on about Austin. But given the above, I wonder whether a tendency to be introspective might in fact be part of what drew them together, despite the image that's generally been given of Joy. 

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

I honestly think she did the shout out because people were eating Carlin alive over her posted photos, so Joy added some context to it to defend Carlin. I doubt most people read her reply to Carlin’s post. 

But honestly - why should Joy have to freaking worry about what people on social media were saying about Carlin during possibly the saddest moments of Joy's life?  She was preparing to have her photo taken with her stillborn child.  While I agree that this is probably what happened - she was defending Carlin  - who do we think approached Joy during this awful time and said, "Hey, Joy? So, several hundred of your followers are being really mean to Carlin so here's your phone, can you post something to help her out?  We've got to protect our images as well as that of our good friends, the Bates, too!"  

Did Joy even get a chance to properly grieve, given the photo shoots, the People story, having to post on social media, etc?   I just feel bad for this young, naive mother having to go through all of this in such a public way, and also because she might not have even given it a second thought, since she literally knows no other way...either that, or the Duggar PR machine, with Boob and Michelle at the helm, walked her through it while Joy was too upset and dazed to push back.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

But honestly - why should Joy have to freaking worry about what people on social media were saying about Carlin during possibly the saddest moments of Joy's life?  She was preparing to have her photo taken with her stillborn child.  While I agree that this is probably what happened - she was defending Carlin  - who do we think approached Joy during this awful time and said, "Hey, Joy? So, several hundred of your followers are being really mean to Carlin so here's your phone, can you post something to help her out?  We've got to protect our images as well as that of our good friends, the Bates, too!"  

Did Joy even get a chance to properly grieve, given the photo shoots, the People story, having to post on social media, etc?   I just feel bad for this young, naive mother having to go through all of this in such a public way, and also because she might not have even given it a second thought, since she literally knows no other way...either that, or the Duggar PR machine, with Boob and Michelle at the helm, walked her through it while Joy was too upset and dazed to push back.

Joy waited a week before posting on SM, which I believe she did on her own, so I'm not sure she was put through anything. And the People story was just the magazine quoting SM.

I really believe Joy was sharing her grief on SM and is now keeping on, keeping on. These posts are a brief moment in time. She'll be grieving for a long time after delivering a stillborn.

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

I’m more concerned about Austin than Joy in this regard. I absolutely believe that they are both distraught over losing their child, but it seems from those pictures like Austin is having to work harder to hold it together than Joy is. Part of that is doubtless the toxic masculinity that is inherent in fundie world — men don’t cry, even when their babies die, so he doesn’t have a socially acceptable outlet for his feelings. But I think it’s also that Joy (and I truly don’t mean this in an unkind way at all) isn’t a deep thinker and doesn’t seem to be particularly prone to regrets. She seems to take life as it comes and realize that you have to play the hand you’re dealt, even if it sucks, because sometimes bad things just happen. She will mourn her child, but I don’t think she’ll torture herself with what-ifs. Austin, OTOH, seems more introspective and serious. I think he’s the type to chew over things and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he blamed himself for this in some way. 

100% with you. Something that struck me when Joy and Austin got married that I still think about, was how every single one of his friends said that what he'd always wanted in life was to be a husband and father. No jokes about him wanting to fuck or anything like that. I think this loss is going to eat at him for a long time, while Joy (and no snark intended here AT ALL) will mourn but be more easily able to move on. 

[Churchhoney]

43 minutes ago, lascuba said:

100% with you. Something that struck me when Joy and Austin got married that I still think about, was how every single one of his friends said that what he'd always wanted in life was to be a husband and father. No jokes about him wanting to fuck or anything like that. I think this loss is going to eat at him for a long time, while Joy (and no snark intended here AT ALL) will mourn but be more easily able to move on. 

The thing that disturbed me most about the photos was Austin's face. I know the photos are supposedly posed and all that. But Austin's facial expressions and body language were raw as hell and obviously not staged or created in any way.

And I get that some people believe it's important for them to fully share their grief with the public because it may empower other people to allow themselves to grieve for an unborn child, too. And I get that he apparently volunteered to have it done this way (although a few days or a week out from such a horrible event, I'm not sure how equipped any of us are to make a call like that.) 

But for me, it seems like a violation to be a gawking stranger seeing photos of that devastation. And to be one of millions of gawking strangers who have. 

I think the point could be made in other ways than by exposing their deepest and most vulnerable feelings to the gaze of strangers. But I hope Joy and Austin never think this for a  millisecond and that they always remain confident in their decision to make all this public. They don't need any additional distressing thoughts. 

ETA: Of course it also pisses me off massively that I'm sure TLC is loving this. Ratings!!! If it ever turns out that TLC or tv considerations played any part at all in how this has gone down...wow...just wow. So I'm hoping not. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[JennyMominFL]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Oh, I agree that good things can come out of it too. That's a great story you have, and I'm glad those connections were made. 

I just still think caution is warranted when you're tempted to broadcast your most vulnerable moments to, literally, millions of strangers! 🙂

Caution is absolutely warranted and the Actor/ production friends that i have great”spidey senses” to help guide them.  But they had normal lives and childhoods(mostly, one has a childhood where he worked with Charlie Chaplin)  and so they developed discernment. Im not sure the Duggars have, so they are more likely to fall for or be hurt by those, with less than honorable intentions.

[Churchhoney]

7 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Caution is absolutely warranted and the Actor/ production friends that i have great”spidey senses” to help guide them.  But they had normal lives and childhoods(mostly, one has a childhood where he worked with Charlie Chaplin)  and so they developed discernment. Im not sure the Duggars have, so they are more likely to fall for or be hurt by those, with less than honorable intentions.

Exactly. Thanks for chiming in with this. 

My sense of the Duggars is that they've got little spidey sense at all. Let alone spidey senses that work in the public sphere. Having had a similarly isolated and brainwashing-heavy background -- though much much less so, since I went to public school and worked jobs outside my home from the time I was 12 -- I know how isolation and forced groupthink really cripple your intuition about many kinds of situations.

The Duggarlings are dependent on the kindness of strangers in so many ways. So I hope they're always lucky in that regard. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[QuinnInND]

9 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

You know, I hope this doesn’t sound weird or anything, but I wanted to comment on how much I like your presence on these boards. It sounds like you have had a lot of heartbreak to overcome in your life, but you still manage to be funny and positive and supportive of other posters. I really appreciate that. I think you must be a really strong person, and I have enjoyed “getting to know you“ on the boards. Again, not trying to be weird, just wanted you to know you have a fan. 

Plus, I very much get the sense that Mini Mistake and your twins would really get along. Moms of spirited girls unite! 😀

Aw thank you. ❤️ I have overcome a lot, and I always say I'm the luckiest girl in the world. My husband is the reason I'm even here. 

Spirited is one way to describe my twins. Lol handful is another. Thanks again! And I'm a big fan of your stories in the Jill and Derelict thread. You're awesome. 

[NotthebadVictoria]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

But honestly - why should Joy have to freaking worry about what people on social media were saying about Carlin during possibly the saddest moments of Joy's life?  She was preparing to have her photo taken with her stillborn child.  While I agree that this is probably what happened - she was defending Carlin  - who do we think approached Joy during this awful time and said, "Hey, Joy? So, several hundred of your followers are being really mean to Carlin so here's your phone, can you post something to help her out?  We've got to protect our images as well as that of our good friends, the Bates, too!"  

Did Joy even get a chance to properly grieve, given the photo shoots, the People story, having to post on social media, etc?   I just feel bad for this young, naive mother having to go through all of this in such a public way, and also because she might not have even given it a second thought, since she literally knows no other way...either that, or the Duggar PR machine, with Boob and Michelle at the helm, walked her through it while Joy was too upset and dazed to push back.

She shouldn’t, your right about that, it’s just sad all around. 

[GeeGolly]

I'm unsure why Joy would regret posting, or be damaged by sharing her loss. She experienced a tragic natural occurrence. Sadness isn't something to be ashamed of.

[lookeyloo]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm unsure why Joy would regret posting, or be damaged by sharing her loss. She experienced a tragic natural occurrence. Sadness isn't something to be ashamed of.

Indeed.  Plus, as we have seen for as many posters as we have, we have that many opinions, all valid.  No one size fits all, or many, etc.  If Joy thinks that is what she wants to do, that's what she should do.  If it comes back to bite her later, she will have maybe learned something.  My snark is aimed at their abhorrent beliefs, and not usually at their every day behavior when it isn't related to those beliefs.  I wouldn't do probably 95% of what they do, in every day life, but, neither would most of you do what I do.  All good.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm unsure why Joy would regret posting, or be damaged by sharing her loss. She experienced a tragic natural occurrence. Sadness isn't something to be ashamed of.

Oh, I completely agree about sadness being nothing to be ashamed of. .... But I'm still leery of playing out your most vulnerable moments with the whole world actually watching it! 

Over the past several years, two people I know got catfished and taken emotional advantage of related to some personal events they'd shared a lot about online.

Both were younger millennials who felt they understood social media well and wouldn't fall victim to anyone's advances. 

Ultimately, neither got robbed or physically threatened or anything.  Just involved in some intense communication and online "relationships" they felt were serious and, at first, helpful with people who supposedly empathized with them.

When they eventually found that the "relationships" were not real but were the leadup to requests and suggestions that clearly crossed lines, it was tough to take. 

Anyway, I've added these events to my own personal privacy hangups, so I always see that as a too-real possibility when somebody shares very intimate stuff with a bunch of people that they don't know at all! (Maybe it's just paranoia. But I prefer to think of it as paranoia laced with some common sense! I figure there's a reason so many self-help groups require anonymity and widows used to wear veils!

(And I put maybe too much faith in my own gut reactions -- and I just feel like I had absolutely no right and no business and no reason seeing Joy's and Austin's pictures....So I go with that!) 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Churchhoney