S01.E10: Last Christmas

[bichonblitz]

8 minutes ago, Big Mother said:

I'm thinking that it was not a hallucination, but a figment of his imagination. He went upstairs to look for Andy, and then imagined the whole conversation in his brain and this is how he processed his own situation. We see Andy walking inside the party, because that's where he was the whole time - he was never on the ledge. Maybe Randall being so depressed that he went and bought a boat, led him to the ledge where he pictured someone else wanting to jump and Randall talking him down, bc Randall at that moment was feeling so low he was the one who wanted to get on th eledge? who knows.

That sounds a little far fetched but hey, I'm learning anything is possible with this show. I just don't want to have to read too much in to a show that is supposed to be entertaining me. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by bichonblitz

[Crs97]

Quote

I'm a little germ obsessive, so when Rebecca snapped off a piece of evergreen that had been hanging around in hospital halls for who knows how long, I thought, well that's not sterile. I would think they'd take it away from her before they entered the operating room.

Rebecca showed it to Kate, had her touch it, told her it was magic, and then said she would hold onto it for Kate until Kate woke up from surgery.

I think Andy really happened.  We saw him away from Randall preparing to jump, Randall came in and talked with him, and after Beth arrived we saw Andy putting on his watch but leaving his drink on the balcony.

[megsara]

I loved how they NBD introduced William's boyfriend.  He's only talked about his relationship with Randall's mom so assuming he was straight rather than bi or gay was just that - an assumption.  

Very on the fence with Toby, but I do think he was quite sweet in this ep and was stunned at his collapse.  Him having DVT makes a lot of sense in hindsight.  Yikes.  As a frequent flier that freaks me out.  

[spaceghostess]

On 12/7/2016 at 0:43 PM, Pallas said:

I think "Blame the mom" had a role in the 2016 presidential election. 

But the writers could be setting up a reversal of our blame-the-mom complex. Not so much a redemption tale as a re-imagining of all the treasured grudges, brought out of storage and given pride of place as regularly and reflexively as a creche or a menorah. The writers may make explicit what some of us suspect: we're viewing past incidents only through one character's skewed point of view. Perhaps we'll revisit those incidents from another perspective.

Was it actually Jack who felt Kate's forehead? Possibly: but it's also been proven to me, in black and white, that my memory has its own opinions about matters of fact. Can the mother who says, "You ate Santa's cookies" still be (1) correct; (2) able to take another look and see if there's more to your distress; (3) get you and your family re-organized for a trip to the ER and Christmas Eve in a waiting room, and (4) make up the Christmas greenery story before your sleigh ride on a gurney? Possibly -- and not because it's Christmas, or she's magic.

I love this comment so much, and I hope you're right that the writers could be going somewhere deeper than yet another retread of "blame the mom." Can they break free of cliches about parental guilt, family dynamics, and life scripts? I see potential for a something new and different here. Fingers crossed.

I know I should, but it's hard to distance myself from personal stuff when watching this. As a newly single mom who works from home and homeschools my two sons, I spend A LOT of time with my kids and am way more tuned in to their marvelousness--and their bullshit--than my ex is. The result of "knowing" them so well is, ironically, that I wade through more preconceptions in order to distinguish "Ow, he punched me, I'm going to die!"--Get-My-Brother-in-Trouble version from "Ow, he punched me, I'm going to die!"-- Ruptured Spleen Version. Viewing it through this personal lens, I couldn't judge Rebecca for jumping to what, in her experience as primary caretaker, might be the most obvious reason for Kate's not feeling well. I also didn't think she was being more "Me, me, me--it's all about meeee!" than many loving moms would be when wondering if Kate's weight issues could be traced to her parenting. I have one kid who makes healthy food choices (loves home-cooking and vegetables, the weirdo) and one who gravitates toward junk food and will eat nothing green . . . when he bothers to eat at all. They're both super-skinny because, genes--but that's not what I worry about. I worry about the fact that one is "healthy" skinny and the other is "unhealthy" skinny. I introduced them to good food in exactly the same way during their respective toddlerhoods, with drastically different results. So, rationally or not, I often ask myself if I did something terribly wrong while pregnant with kid #2 that resulted in these preferences. I don't think that's self indulgent, but maybe it is? Or maybe it is if you ask the kid, not yourself, that question. Hmmm. 

My sister had to do a lot of convincing to get me to watch this show, but I'm glad she did. I'm enjoying it so far because, while it often toes the borderline between earning and manufacturing "moments", it hasn't yet tipped the balance the wrong way. As an inveterate hater of holiday schmaltz, I was kind of surprised that much of the spaghetti they threw at the wall in this episode stuck, for me. I didn't even totally hate Toby's surprise barge-in--because it made Kate so happy. Having said that, I actually REALLY HATED the throwaway "Grandpa's gay/bi, DUH" line from Randall and Beth's older daughter. I so love those kids, and the actresses who play them are perfect--but that just felt . . . cheap. In an episode that managed to make me believe and embrace out-of-left-field twists like Jesse, this "from the mouths of babes" writing choice just felt unnecessary and condescending. Everything we already know about Randall's branch of the family tells us that they are not tone-deaf people. It's understood that they'd accept William's sexuality and partner, but I think that Beth and Randall would have very quickly twigged the nature of that relationship, and that should have been equally fleeting moment between adults--not a "Kids! So adorably precocious, amirite?! Thank God they're here to tell us what's really going down!" moment. It played twee when it could have played classy, and this show is usually better than that.

[jhlipton]

23 hours ago, catrox14 said:

LGBT people do exist in the real world and and often their families don't even know they are LBGT. It's a realistic LIFE issue. I'm not seeing how it's inclusion is political. 

Ditto

 

20 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

To me, the whole reveal of William's boyfriend Jesse worked so well because it could've easily been is his girlfriend Jessie that told him off. In other words, they didn't hit us over the head with the "They are Gay! GAY, I tell you! Look at how Gay they are!" It just felt like every human moment, just like it would've been between a hetero couple. And kudos to William and Jesse's actors, they had good chemistry with each other and I could really feel the tenderness, love and even passion between them.

Loved this!

 

18 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The playwright kept reminding me of a young Tina Fey/Liz Lemon. 

Except funny and cute.H

49 minutes ago, Big Mother said:

It';s possible that Sloane is from a very liberal family, bc in a family where the Chanukah traditions are so well kept and where the story is told so beautifully and clearly, would probably be the type of family that would not want their daughter to intermarry. So it was a little off to me. But maybe they were blinded by him being the Manny :D.

I have just the opposite feeling.  Their Hanukkah is very much like we'd have in my family (although  more at Passover than Hanukkah).  I can totally see my dad telling the story the same way Sloane did (with the rest of the family snarking ["and here we are"]) -- and they had no problem with my sister and I marrying Christians.

[DrSpaceman73]

I personally think Tina Fey/Liz Lemon is hilarious and attractive.  Plus on 30 rock they had a whole bunch of flashbacks with her struggling small theater experience, with Jenna as the more attractive and better known bitchy actress, which is the reason I thought of it. 

[mojito]

Quote

 "Grandpa's gay/bi, DUH" line from Randall and Beth's older daughter. I so love those kids, and the actresses who play them are perfect--but that just felt . . . cheap.

I think this was for the viewing audience that is not all that perceptive, or to be kind, might have been distracted at the time. Otherwise, we'd see at least one post that reads, "Are we supposed to think that William is gay?" Guaranteed.

Edited December 9, 2016 by mojito

[Calamity Jane]

13 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Isn't he a millionaire several times over from his tv show?  An off Broadway show is a few hundred thousand at most. And regional productions can easily be in the millions. That said this was clearly a small off off house. Nitpick: it's bizarre that they were rehearsing onstage. That is almost never done because it's just too expensive. You don't get in the space until you load on: you're in a rehearsal room. If they are rehearsing onstage it means nobody else is renting the space and it's so cheap they would never be able to pay everyone- equity waiver- OR a resident theater but in NY those are all off Broadway not off off and again- you aren't using the space until tech. Sorry I know nobody cares but equity stage manager here and this particular point annoys me. They did the same thing on Girls.

 

jewish jersey girl here and gotta say, "Hanukkah dinner" isn't a thing. I mean you might spend a night of it with family and eat latkes but it is NOT a big holiday like thanksgiving or Passover and "telling the story" isn't part of it (again that's Passover). It actually would have made more sense as a Hanukkah party because some people do have them but to present it as if it's some typical Jewish family thing, just no.

 

also the bottle of manoschewitz was overkill. I don't know anyone who does not drink that ironically only. Had it been a flashback to the 70s, ok, otherwise no.

 

to the person who thought doctors charm would have been dead because he was in his 70s when the kids were born: then as now, loads of people did live into their 80s. So if he was early 70s or even mid no particular reason he'd be dead 10 years later. He did looks  exactly the same though. 

 

i also wondered if Andy weren't a hallucination. 

I know people can be bi but it kind of felt like the show forgot....

 

But anything to keep Denis O'Hare on my screen and thank G-D we got to find out what happened to the cat! (I REALLY wanted someone to bring the cat to NJ, & have it live in Randall's room. As in The Night Of).

I really wondered about that Hanukkah dinner - my son's family is Jewish, and they never do anything of the kind for Hanukkah. They usually go to the lighting of the menorah downtown on the first night (at one of the original Junipero Serra missions!!), where the story gets told.  But no fancy dinner and no story at home.   It all looked much more like Passover seder to me, although perhaps people weren't as tipsy as we usually are by the end of it.  I characterize it as "read a little, eat a little, lean to the left, drink a little, repeat, repeat, repeat," the kids go to the door for Elijah and hunt for the afikomen, and everyone has a wonderful time. It's one of my favorite things each year.  

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Calamity Jane said:

I really wondered about that Hanukkah dinner - my son's family is Jewish, and they never do anything of the kind for Hanukkah. They usually go to the lighting of the menorah downtown on the first night (at one of the original Junipero Serra missions!!), where the story gets told.  But no fancy dinner and no story at home.   It all looked much more like Passover seder to me, although perhaps people weren't as tipsy as we usually are by the end of it.  I characterize it as "read a little, eat a little, lean to the left, drink a little, repeat, repeat, repeat," the kids go to the door for Elijah and hunt for the afikomen, and everyone has a wonderful time. It's one of my favorite things each year.  

Which makes me wonder if the extended family is interfaith - where elements of both cultures are intertwined and what is celebrated will depend on who the host family is. 

[meep.meep]

So I'm apparently the only person on earth who thought that Jesse's accent was awful.

I will go take my place next to Miguel on the sofa.

[ClareWalks]

42 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

So I'm apparently the only person on earth who thought that Jesse's accent was awful.

I didn't think it was awful, but I definitely found it distracting because Denis O'Hare is decidedly American. Not sure why they went with that choice, since being British is not essential to the character.

[J.D.]

In defense of Jack and Rebecca, young Kate didn't appear to be in distress.  She wasn't acting like a child whose appendix was about to burst.  She grumbled a couple of times about having a stomach ache.  Just before that, she was counting the presents and talking about going Christmas Caroling.  I don't think anyone is at fault for not jumping into action when Kate said she didn't feel well.

 

About the boys being unsupervised while roaming the halls of the hospital, my parents tells me that kind of thing happened all the time years ago.  Pre-teens barely past the age of needing a babysitter themselves were babysitting their younger siblings.  Kids played outside well past dark, catching lightening bugs, riding their bikes, burning leaves.  My mom tells me stuff like that was a regular thing.

 

Count me in with the group that hopes Kate doesn't get pregnant, -- BUT -- (and I'm just guessing here) if Chrissy herself is contemplating gastric bypass surgery, then I can see why the writers would make Kate pregnant.  That way, they could write it in the storyline that due to Kate's size, she has to be on bed rest for the sake of the baby's health, and then Chrissy (the actress) could recover at her own pace.  They could work around her post surgery with minimal scenes.  Again, I'm just guessing here.  

 

Gotta say it again, I love the William and Jesse twist.  :D

[mojito]

Quote

I really wondered about that Hanukkah dinner - my son's family is Jewish, and they never do anything of the kind for Hanukkah. 

Why must this ONE family represent all Jews? Does your family have hot dogs coated with crackers for Thanksgiving dinner?

[Tiger]

12 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I didn't think it was awful, but I definitely found it distracting because Denis O'Hare is decidedly American. Not sure why they went with that choice, since being British is not essential to the character.

I didnt hear a British accent.

[ClareWalks]

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I didnt hear a British accent.

It was pretty "in your face," as the kids say.

[buckboard]

6 hours ago, Big Mother said:

It';s possible that Sloane is from a very liberal family, bc in a family where the Chanukah traditions are so well kept and where the story is told so beautifully and clearly, would probably be the type of family that would not want their daughter to intermarry. So it was a little off to me. But maybe they were blinded by him being the Manny :D.

It doesn't seen off at all to me, but quite normal.  First of all, as far as the family knows, Kevin and Sloan have just begun to date, they're not engaged to be married or even seriously involved.  (Although a majority of non-Orthodox Jews DO intermarry, so even if they were, it's not that unusual.)  Visiting the home of a friend of a different religion to see decorations and have a special meal is pretty common. I used to visit my Christian friends at Christmas all the time.  It's not as if they're attending midnight mass together or deciding which religion to raise their children.  

Also, Sloan's family's telling the story of Chanukah is her family's particular tradition, like the Pearson's Thanksgiving traditions.  They have a special meal and someone tells their version of the story of the holiday, but most Jewish people I know - including my family - just light the menorah and have latkes.  

It's like Randall's family gathering at his home Christmas Eve.  Other Christian families don't get together - if at all - until Christmas Day.  It's not a structured activity, like a Passover seder or a church service.

Edited December 9, 2016 by buckboard

[Tiger]

13 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

It was pretty "in your face," as the kids say.

I guess since neither Beth, not Jack, nor Kate was in the scene I wasnt really paying attention.

[possibilities]

I guess I'm a little put off by the fact taht she's Jewish and dating a non Jewish person and even going to his Xmas party.

I'm Jewish and I've dated non-Jews, and brought them to family events, including holidays, as well as attended theirs. In the world I live in, it's very common behavior. We've invited guests to seders, and candle-lightings, and every other possible event. Some of us intermarried. And we're not by any means unusual. If there are still some families who frown on intermarriage, they are not the only ones who are observant. It's just not true. I've even been at synagogue events where there are intermarried participants. Some object, but others welcome. I'm talking about people who keep kosher and so on-- it's not just the super-lax, it's a widespread phenomenon.

I personally despise Christmas, but when you love someone, you support them and allow them to be who they are. It's not a repudiation of your own identity or beliefs, it's just being a decent human being and not a control freak. If Kevin had said he couldn't date Sloan because she's Jewish and has not accepted his Lord and Savior? I would have been off-put by that for sure. And Chanukah is nothing, really. People attend their friends' bar mitzvahs and weddings, they invite the stranger to sit at the Passover table, surely there is room for Kevin when latkes are on the menu. I don't know why I'm so worked up about this. I guess I'm just really surprised to hear this aspect of the show being criticized. I was actually relieved they made some effort to at least acknowledge that not everyone is obsessed with Santa this time of year.

In the Thanksgiving episode, Randall told Rebecca he'd see her at Christmas, not that he'd hash it out with her there. I would have wanted to see them talk about things, but doing it AT Christmas doesn't seem like the right time, especially with all the guests. I think he was willing to have her there, but wasn't quite ready to move past it completely. I think that's realistic. Sometimes you aren't over something, but you don't want to completely sever ties. I don't know if the show will follow up or not, but I hope they do.

[izabella]

42 minutes ago, J.D. said:

About the boys being unsupervised while roaming the halls of the hospital, my parents tells me that kind of thing happened all the time years ago.  Pre-teens barely past the age of needing a babysitter themselves were babysitting their younger siblings.  Kids played outside well past dark, catching lightening bugs, riding their bikes, burning leaves.  My mom tells me stuff like that was a regular thing.

Yes, this is true.  I turned 13 in 1980, and we did this in my neighborhood.  We also literally played in the street - kickball using the four corners as bases.  We just got out of the way when cars were coming. 

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, izabella said:

Yes, this is true.  I turned 13 in 1980, and we did this in my neighborhood.  We also literally played in the street - kickball using the four corners as bases.  We just got out of the way when cars were coming. 

It's one thing to roam your neighborhood.  It's another to roam a hospital.  I don't think the concern would be over kidnapping (although that was a heightened fear in the late 80s), but rather the potential trouble kids could create there.  

Even if the parents didn't seem to mind, I'm not sure that it would be okay with hospital staff.

[Court]

It's pretty common for us to have strangers or not close friends at our holidays. We jokingly say my mom brings home strays. All of my parents extend an open invite to anyone. My sister and I have picked up this habit along the way. Every family is different. Not every family will do everything the same.

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, Court said:

It's pretty common for us to have strangers or not close friends at our holidays. We jokingly say my mom brings home strays. All of my parents extend an open invite to anyone. My sister and I have picked up this habit along the way. Every family is different. Not every family will do everything the same.

I agree.  My in-laws would welcome anyone and everyone (although they themselves were pretty isolated, so it was usually guests invited by guests).  In my family, however, bringing in people who were not related or very close friends was something that was just not done.

[SueB]

My last year I was in college my best friend (who was a guy) had me come home to his Jewish family for Thanksgiving.  We were never romantic but the poor elderly and slightly confused Grandma thought I was a "shiksa" come to steal her grandchild and gave me the stink eye the whole time.  The Mom and Dad were chill so the meal went relatively well.  

But when I hug my bud as I was leaving... ooh Grandma had LASER eyes on me.  

[Chris Knight]

Is William supposed to have AIDS or cancer ?

I like Kate but it is not cool that she took Toby upstairs at Randall's. What if one of Randall's daughters happened to go upstairs  ?

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, ChicagoChris said:

Is William supposed to have AIDS or cancer ?

I like Kate but it is not cool that she took Toby upstairs at Randall's. What if one of Randall's daughters happened to go upstairs  ?

He has stomach cancer.  It was never called anything but cancer, he and Randall went to see an oncologist, and he talks about it in "cancerese" (it's stage IV, it has metastasized, etc).

[Big Mother]

I want to thank everyone who clarified the whole interfaith thing. I'm Orthodox and very religious so it was kind of confusing to me. Looks like it's pretty common among non-Orthodox. I apologize if I upset anyone!

Happy Chanukah and Merry Christmas to all :D. It happens to really coincide this year. (Which is going to make my life VERY HARD because my special needs son will be off from school the entire Chanukah! and staff is hard to come by during this time of year.)

[Big Mother]

as for the theory of Kate being pregnant so that Chrissy Metz can recover from her own gastric bypass sugery: Recovery is really not that long; the surgery is a fairly easy one, relatively speaking. (I didnt even know my sister had it and I speak to her daily!!! I think she may have told me that day she was in the hospital for kidney stones. THe next day we were already talking again....) So she can easily have the surgery and recover during a hiatus in filming. I have a feeling though that both the character and the actress will have the surgery at the end of Season 1, and start Season 2 off with a big weight loss.

[AmandaPanda]

1 hour ago, buckboard said:

It's like Randall's family gathering at his home Christmas Eve.  Other Christian families don't get together - if at all - until Christmas Day.  It's not a structured activity, like a Passover seder or a church service.

I wouldn't say it's not common for families to get together on Christmas Eve. Growing up, my family's Christmas celebration was always on Christmas Eve. This was mainly to accommodate for in-laws and all the family schedule juggling, but I was always more excited for Christmas Eve. 

1 hour ago, Court said:

It's pretty common for us to have strangers or not close friends at our holidays. We jokingly say my mom brings home strays. All of my parents extend an open invite to anyone. My sister and I have picked up this habit along the way. Every family is different. Not every family will do everything the same.

Same with my in-laws. My sister-in-law was really involved with the foreign exchange program at her university, so she brings lots of people home for holidays so they can experience an American Christmas. 

[Court]

We also always have Christmas Eve dinner at my aunt's every year. Some of us come from church or go to church afterwards. I thought  that getting together then was common until this thread. I think it's just what one is used to!

[Randomosity]

Just now, Court said:

We also always have Christmas Eve dinner at my aunt's every year. Some of us come from church or go to church afterwards. I thought  that getting together then was common until this thread. I think it's just what one is used to!

It's more hit or miss/what you're used to in the USA. In many European cultures, is was/still is that Christmas Eve is THE holiday and dwarfs any to-do on Christmas itself.

[Dowel Jones]

I finally watched this, and offer a few random thoughts:

When Toby said he flew six HOURS to get there, my first thought was "Did you get on a twin engine Cessna or what?"  Granted, there is a myriad of things that can turn a cross country flight into an ordeal, but that was my reaction.

Santa Claus: Several months after Christmas I was walking through the dept. store with my then 8 year old daughter, who noticed the bicycle display had bikes just like hers.  I replied that the store was where I got hers for Christmas.  "Oh.  I thought Santa brought that for me."  Thud.  Excuse me while I move this anvil out of the aisle.

Everything else paled before Randall's comment about Chloe not being able to forgive Andy during the confrontation scene.  That put his (Andy's) life into perspective.

The line "Nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve" took me all the way back to a China Beach episode, when the overworked mortician is filling out reports on soldiers killed in action.  He enters 12/25 as date of death, because, as he put it "No one dies on Christmas Eve."

[theatremouse]

On 12/6/2016 at 10:36 PM, catrox14 said:

So is Toby really most sincerely dead?

The big long continuous beeeeeeeeeeep is usually TV for "dead" so if they present anything otherwise, I'mabe pissed because that's cheap.

On 12/7/2016 at 1:06 PM, PRgal said:

Sloane's family seems a bit stereotypical.  The mom, especially! 

In my experience, pretty much every Jewish mom lives the stereotype. I'm hoping to buck the trend myself, but I realize there's a decent chance I'll fail.

Can someone with a better memory than mine (or who saved it on DVR and is rewatching) clarify for me if Sloane herself ever actually used the phrase "Hanukkah dinner" or is that just what people have been calling it here (perhaps for lack of better phrase)? I'm asking because partly, for me I agree with those who sort of already said "that isn't a thing". BUT "doing Hanukkah" is a thing. Especially if children are involved...and grandparents. And it may or may not involve proper "dinner" vs just...everyone shows up at grandma's house, do candles at sundown, eat latkes, dreidel up the joint...blah. Anyway, what I'm getting at is if she used the phrase "Hanukkah dinner" that does ring a little false to me. But if the deal was just that was the night her whole family had committed to going to grandma's and "doing Hanukkah" together, I can see bringing Kev per her previous mom-shutting-up lies. And then however that particular family does Hanukkah, how they did it was totally reasonable from my perspective. The actual event itself, sure whatever, I buy it. Different families do what they do. I can imagine the other nights they might not get together and just candles/fried food at their own homes for the rest.

Flashback nitpick: if they were in the hospital Christmas eve 1989, the wrong number of candles were lit on the hospital menorah. It looked like night three but should've been night 2.

Edited December 9, 2016 by theatremouse

[Randomosity]

5 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

When Toby said he flew six HOURS to get there, my first thought was "Did you get on a twin engine Cessna or what?"  Granted, there is a myriad of things that can turn a cross country flight into an ordeal, but that was my reaction.

...California to NYC flights take 5.5 hours. Throw in the boarding time, and rounding to 6 hours is totally normal. Do you have vastly different experiences? If so, let us in on what airline to use!

[Crs97]

7 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

The line "Nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve" took me all the way back to a China Beach episode, when the overworked mortician is filling out reports on soldiers killed in action.  He enters 12/25 as date of death, because, as he put it "No one dies on Christmas Eve."

I don't know why he thought Christmas Day would be better.  MASH did a similar storyline, but I thought they tried to keep the soldier alive until the 26th.

[jhlipton]

32 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

When Toby said he flew six HOURS to get there, my first thought was "Did you get on a twin engine Cessna or what?"  Granted, there is a myriad of things that can turn a cross country flight into an ordeal, but that was my reaction.

24 minutes ago, Randomosity said:

...California to NYC flights take 5.5 hours. Throw in the boarding time, and rounding to 6 hours is totally normal. Do you have vastly different experiences? If so, let us in on what airline to use!

 

Add in the three hour time difference too. 

My flight from Newark, NJ to Los Angeles is 6 hours; the return is 5 hours.  That's non-stop.

[OtterMommy]

7 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

 

Add in the three hour time difference too. 

My flight from Newark, NJ to Los Angeles is 6 hours; the return is 5 hours.  That's non-stop.

Also, I've never flown into a major airport (I'm assuming that Toby flew into Newark, JFK, or LaGuardia?) without extra time circling before being able to land.  And, if he flew out of LAX, he probably spent a good 45-60 minutes waiting on the tarmac.

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

I finally watched this, and offer a few random thoughts:

When Toby said he flew six HOURS to get there, my first thought was "Did you get on a twin engine Cessna or what?"  Granted, there is a myriad of things that can turn a cross country flight into an ordeal, but that was my reaction.

Santa Claus: Several months after Christmas I was walking through the dept. store with my then 8 year old daughter, who noticed the bicycle display had bikes just like hers.  I replied that the store was where I got hers for Christmas.  "Oh.  I thought Santa brought that for me."  Thud.  Excuse me while I move this anvil out of the aisle.

Everything else paled before Randall's comment about Chloe not being able to forgive Andy during the confrontation scene.  That put his (Andy's) life into perspective.

The line "Nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve" took me all the way back to a China Beach episode, when the overworked mortician is filling out reports on soldiers killed in action.  He enters 12/25 as date of death, because, as he put it "No one dies on Christmas Eve."

Done the flight to LA and back from both Newark and JFK a number of times.  My husband did it numerous (OK regularly) times for years.  It's generally a six hour direct flight.  Sometimes, it can be a five and a half coming from LA to Newark or JFK because of the jet stream.  Nothing out of the ordinary.

On a personal note, maybe  nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve but boy do I know, lot's of stuff can happen of Christmas Day.  Sorry guys, we're going to the hospital because something is going on with Grandma.  Yeah, that was fun.  Not blaming her.

On another note, my oldest did like to wander in the hospital.  Grandma had been there a number of times.  This was in the nineties.  He also knew that he could cruise the hall but no getting on elevators, no less going to the gift shop, and had to be back in about five minutes or a search party would be sent out.  This is what bothered me about the episode.  You keep track of your kids.  And if one of your kids is having surgery?  Yeah, you may stop by and say hello to your Ob/gyn  but, as a parent, you're totally focused on your child who is going under the knife.  Been there.  Done that.  And my kid was older than nine years old.

[lucindabelle]

12 hours ago, Big Mother said:

It';s possible that Sloane is from a very liberal family, bc in a family where the Chanukah traditions are so well kept and where the story is told so beautifully and clearly, would probably be the type of family that would not want their daughter to intermarry. So it was a little off to me. But maybe they were blinded by him being the Manny :D.

Except there really aren't Hanukkah traditions to be well kept. Seriously it's a VERY minor holiday and the only reason it's become a big deal is it falls around Xmas time. Hanukkah presents are completely fornjewishbkids to not be left out; in ghettos it was just Hanukkah gelt. (Today represented by chocolate coins). Candles get lit, latkes and donuts get eaten, dreidels get spun. To me the whole Hanukkah dinner actually suggests a less observant family because if you're more observant there's so many damn holidays ttisbone is no big deal. For me I never minded Korn being home for Hanukkah but the few times in my life I couldn't make it home for Passover I cried my eyes out.

[J-Man]

I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet, but I'm fairly certain this was the first episode where Chris Sullivan (Toby) was credited as a REGULAR, instead of as a guest star. So either we're going to be seeing a lot more of him (either in real time or in flashbacks) or they did this as a last hurrah for the actor and/or to fake us out. But going from guest star to series regular is, I gather, quite a big deal with respect to compensation and other perks, so I'm pretty sure it is not a one-shot deal.

Quote

I'm Jewish and Hanukkah is an extremely minor, made up holiday (the story of the oil is not real according to my Rabbi) so I see no need to perpetuate the myth.

That's hardly the only holiday story or tradition that's wholly or partially fictitious. Santa Claus? Virgin births? The Easter Bunny?

[SlackerInc]

I wonder what the production schedule is. It feels like they did an abrupt about-face on Olivia in reaction to the sharp negative reaction from viewers like we saw here. I liked her, so I'm disappointed. And it just doesn't feel like this was where they previously were steering her story.

Nagging Randall into giving up the boat is a perfect illustration of why I don't like Beth. The guy makes a shit-ton of dough--let him buy a damn boat if he wants to! Jesus.

[Johnny Dollar]

Andy was suicidal because he just watched the Westworld finale. 

Since this show loves the drama, I can see Andy's rogue trading putting Randall's job in jeopardy. What if he has to move back home with Rebecca and Miguel?  

While saying "nothing bad ever happens on Christmas Eve" is a nice sentiment, if I was Randall, having a guy die in your living room on Christmas morning is not exactly a holiday tradition I'd want to start with my daughters. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Johnny Dollar

[SlackerInc]

On 12/7/2016 at 0:12 AM, RandomMe said:

Almost everything I felt about this episode has already been mentioned, so I'll just add one thing:

Sufjan Stevens' Christmas music! I was listening to that song ("Only at Christmas Time") earlier today in fact. They used one of his songs in the pilot I think, so no surprise there, but yay anyway!

Cosigned.  The show always has great music.

On 12/8/2016 at 5:46 AM, sasha206 said:

Is it me or has this show jumped the shark already?  The episodes are starting to become so hokey.  I mean, how many strangers get invited to a family holiday dinner?  And the lightbulb moments?  The fortuitous Christmas Eve appendicitis scare at the hospital with the dying doc?  

It's on probation for me, for sure.  I did not love this episode.  But that might be partly because I'm an atheist and they seemed to lay the religious stuff on thick.  We will see.

[ShadowFacts]

4 hours ago, J-Man said:

I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet, but I'm fairly certain this was the first episode where Chris Sullivan (Toby) was credited as a REGULAR, instead of as a guest star. So either we're going to be seeing a lot more of him (either in real time or in flashbacks) or they did this as a last hurrah for the actor and/or to fake us out. But going from guest star to series regular is, I gather, quite a big deal with respect to compensation and other perks, so I'm pretty sure it is not a one-shot deal.

I'm not sure, I thought he was a regular all along.  Either way, lots of series kill off regulars.  Some of them revel in it.  Whether it's someone viewers care about, or love to hate, it's the biggest of dramatic punches.  And it definitely can be overdone.

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

I wonder what the production schedule is. It feels like they did an abrupt about-face on Olivia in reaction to the sharp negative reaction from viewers like we saw here. I liked her, so I'm disappointed. And it just doesn't feel like this was where they previously were steering her story.

Nagging Randall into giving up the boat is a perfect illustration of why I don't like Beth. The guy makes a shit-ton of dough--let him buy a damn boat if he wants to! Jesus.

I got the impression it wasn't just the boat.  She commented on how he spends a lot of money when depressed.  I implied from that comment the boat was just the latest purchase and was a sign it was getting out of control. 

And buying a boat without talking to a spouse about it is pretty disrespectful

[JenE4]

9 hours ago, theatremouse said:

The big long continuous beeeeeeeeeeep is usually TV for "dead" so if they present anything otherwise, I'mabe pissed because that's cheap.

Exactly. When we last saw Toby, he was definitely alive because he was still beep-beep-beeping. Even if it ended with a beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep, he would still have a chance to be brought back from the brink of death.

If so, I would anticipate the next episode would begin with a beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep, then the doctor and nurses would rush in yelling Code BLue and defribrilatng the hell out of him. Eventually the nurse would say, "Doctor, he's gone. Call it." And we'd pan up to a 107-year-old Dr. Folksy still practicing medicine who would say, "Bernice, I'm not letting this man die on Christmas Eve. A wise family once taught me that nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve!" Then he'd try it one more time, and Toby will live! Or, if the Toby fan hate was too much and he's going by the wayside as the bitchy actress, then beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Dr. Folksy goes out to tell the family, he and Rebecca see each other, and start chatting up a storm (because in 80 years practicing, the Pearson are his favorite patients ever), forgetting all about Toby. Where's Toby? Oh, he's dead. But Doc will pull Kate aside, give Kate the exact same pep talk he gave Jack, replacing "child" with "boyfriend." Then Doc will direct Kate toward her new man by saying, "See that man over there drinking a Slimfast shake? He just lost his wife tonight." Slimfast will raise his shake to Kate, and they'll exchange coy smiles. Then Slimfast will say, "Wait. What?! Cheryl is dead?! You said not to worry because nothing bad ever happens on Christmas Eve!" Then Doc will say, "Whoops. Sorry, Bob. I guess I forgot to tell you because the Pearsons are here!" Then Kevin, wandering around by the decorations per usual, will spot the snow globe that Randall gave Doc. Randall will give one of his patented wide-mouthed looks of awe and joy. Doc will give a little wink, and all the Pearsons will laugh and laugh and break out into Christmas song. With poor Bob in the background sobbing about Cheryl.

[Big Mother]

From an ultra-Orthodox Jew here: "Chanukah Dinner" is not a "Thing" like a Passover Seder, for instance. However, families *DO* get together for one night during Chanukah for some family time. It could be any night of chanukah; often it's on saturday night because it's easier when people are not working. However, telling over the Chanukah story is wholly unneccessary since the kids have learned about it all month in school. In a loosely-traditional family like Sloane's, maybe that became their own family's tradition.

 

Props to whoever really went back to the calendar and calculated how many candles wouldve been lit on Xmas even 1989. Wow. I wouldn't be bothered to check that fact :D

[theatremouse]

The OCD helps. Plus google.

I actually made the comment about the beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep because I thought it did end with one, hence I'm assuming he's dead (plus the title), but I didn't save it so now I'm second guessing myself.

[Crs97]

I specifically listened for the long beep because I know how much shows love to use them, but it never changed from the short ones.

I assume "nothing bad ever happens on Christmas Eve" will be just the newest thing the kids will use to bash Rebecca.  "You broke your promise!!"  Sigh

[ShadowFacts]

43 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

The OCD helps. Plus google.

I actually made the comment about the beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep because I thought it did end with one, hence I'm assuming he's dead (plus the title), but I didn't save it so now I'm second guessing myself.

I don't remember about the beep, but they were shocking him, weren't they?  That means his heart stopped and they are trying to restart.  Our cliffhanger is whether that is successful.  It looks pretty dire to me.  The success rate even in hospitals is pretty low, but this is TV of course. 

[NutMeg]

Of course he will be revived :(

(Damn, I really wish he was out of the show for good and Kate could have more interesting story arcs than him and/or weight, but I don't think I'll get my wish)