S01.E10: Last Christmas

[Pallas]

It seems that all three grown Pearson children splurge. Each has a hollow leg for something, something each can briefly seize and in effect say, "Mine and I'm not sharing."  

I suspect we'll find out that Rebecca's father was a once-charming, later depressed and increasingly bitter alcoholic. Also, he appeared to be fair-haired; Kevin may remind Rebecca of him.

[izabella]

Oh, Lord, I do not want to see a Randall is bi-polar story.  There is plenty of drama here without adding that to it.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 12/7/2016 at 5:52 AM, SadieT said:

When Toby came in all amped up to win Kate back, armed with gifts for the girls and happily introducing himself to the family, I actually thought to myself, "oh maybe he's not so bad after all!"

Not me!  I actually yelled at the TV "Are you kidding me?  NO BOUNDARIES!"

On 12/7/2016 at 1:31 PM, Good Queen Jane said:

Honey Baked Ham or the like works wonderfully. Just pop it in the oven for a few minutes to warm it up.

I want to get this kind of ham!  Every ham I've ever bought says heat 10-14 minutes per pound, and if it's a large holiday ham it just takes forever and is impossible to reliably time.  

[OtterMommy]

9 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Huh, that's interesting.  Great illustration of how MMV.  I don't see how anyone (regardless of how you personally felt about Olivia) when watching that fiercely romantic moment at the end of "Pilgrim Rick", after William basically says "go to him" and she does, would have predicted that less than an hour's screen time later, Olivia would be out of the episode completely and referred to as having disappeared a month earlier, while Kevin seems to move forward with a budding relationship with a different character.  Even if it wasn't actually fanservice, that seems like a huge swerve to me.

 

I agree with you that it was a swerve, but I thought it as more of a swerve from everything Olivia was before that scene with William than the fact that she was gone an episode later.  She was pretty terribly up until that point and, really, hadn't shown the audience that she wanted to be with Kevin.  So, when she went back to him after William's speech, I was a bit, "Whaaaa?"

My guess is that they were trying to create Olivia as a being emotionally damaged and, well, I guess they were successful?  At this point, I guess we just have to wait and see what happens.

[ShadowFacts]

49 minutes ago, izabella said:

Oh, Lord, I do not want to see a Randall is bi-polar story.  There is plenty of drama here without adding that to it.

I don't know if it will be bipolar illness, but I think mental illness of some kind is ripe for the picking if the writers want to go there, from both Randall's intensity and what Beth has said about him.  Maybe it will manifest more after William dies, then he will have lost two fathers and maybe they'll throw in some work/financial reverses. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Not me!  I actually yelled at the TV "Are you kidding me?  NO BOUNDARIES!"

I want to get this kind of ham!  Every ham I've ever bought says heat 10-14 minutes per pound, and if it's a large holiday ham it just takes forever and is impossible to reliably time.  

Me, too, about Toby.  Showing up at a family member's house on xmas eve, on the opposite coast, uninvited, after I broke up with you would be off the rudeness charts from what Rebecca or Kevin did with Randall.

If it helps, all hams are fully cooked when you purchase them.  You could set them out and serve them cold or room temp, if you wanted.  I think heating them for 10 minutes a pound at low temps keeps them out of the food 'danger zone' and also keeps them from drying out on heating.  And I think they taste best warm.  But if it's better for your schedule to leave it in for 5 minutes a pound or 25 minutes, I don't think there are huge consequences like with previously raw meat.  

[MaryPatShelby]

As you can see, I'm not a natural in the kitchen!

[SanDiegoInExile]

On 12/8/2016 at 3:46 AM, sasha206 said:

Is it me or has this show jumped the shark already?  The episodes are starting to become so hokey.  I mean, how many strangers get invited to a family holiday dinner?  And the lightbulb moments?  The fortuitous Christmas Eve appendicitis scare at the hospital with the dying doc?  

Aren't XMAS episodes "hokey" by definition?  They almost always are a bit schmaltzy and coincidental.  While Thanksgiving is more likely as "bring a stray to dinner" event, I wouldn't call William's presumed long term love interest a "stranger".  William believes he has only a few weeks/months to live, so revealing himself further to his family and including all of his "family" isn't all that unrealistic. Especially since this is the first time we saw him purposely going to a meeting, ostensibly with the plan/agenda to see his recent/current? partner.  Also, Sloane had told her family that she was dating The Manny, so dragging Kevin to a holiday dinner seemed legit.

The structure of the show seems to be to link events of the past to the events of the current day.  The show isn't telling multiple stories, it is telling one grand story, with contributing scenes through the years.

The show is basically a prime time soap.  There will be plenty of other times to call them out for shark-jumping.

[OtterMommy]

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't know if it will be bipolar illness, but I think mental illness of some kind is ripe for the picking if the writers want to go there, from both Randall's intensity and what Beth has said about him.  Maybe it will manifest more after William dies, then he will have lost two fathers and maybe they'll throw in some work/financial reverses. 

Randall doesn't seem bi-polar to me, but he does seem to struggle with anxiety and possibly depression.

[candall]

I like this show so much, and tv is such a wasteland right now, I saved it up for a lazy Sunday afternoon treat.  Downside:  oof, nine pages of posts.

 

I think one of those hospital snowglobes had a tiny little sign inside that said "St. Eligius."

[Bluedog100]

50 minutes ago, candall said:

I think one of those hospital snowglobes had a tiny little sign inside that said "St. Eligius."

Where is my LOVE button?  (Plus that thing on here where I can click when I really, really like something??]

[neuromom]

2 hours ago, candall said:

I like this show so much, and tv is such a wasteland right now, I saved it up for a lazy Sunday afternoon treat.  Downside:  oof, nine pages of posts.

 

I think one of those hospital snowglobes had a tiny little sign inside that said "St. Eligius."

Ha! That was my first thought when I saw the globe! Then I started wondering if it was foreshadowing something.....

[memememe76]

I loved this episode so much. 

While there were some stereotypical elements in the portrayal of Sloane's family, I don't mind it because I think it's understandable when showing a large group of people who won't appear again, if ever. Besides, there were elements that defied convention. I am thinking the parents choosing Sloane to tell the story is an example. I use Friends as an example, where the Gellers favoured Ross over Monica by a large margin. The parents' love for Sloane was obvious. Even the sister wasn't 100% awful.

I am a lawyer and everywhere I worked, the firm would open on Xmas Eve but close early. I can see this with a doctor's office, especially for a consultation. I totally bought the Kate and Rebecca relationship, and bought Mandy being significantly older than Chrissy. When Kate was wishing that just 1 person supported her decision, I am hoping that 1 person is Miguel. 

[sasha206]

9 hours ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

Aren't XMAS episodes "hokey" by definition?  They almost always are a bit schmaltzy and coincidental.  While Thanksgiving is more likely as "bring a stray to dinner" event, I wouldn't call William's presumed long term love interest a "stranger".  William believes he has only a few weeks/months to live, so revealing himself further to his family and including all of his "family" isn't all that unrealistic. Especially since this is the first time we saw him purposely going to a meeting, ostensibly with the plan/agenda to see his recent/current? partner.  Also, Sloane had told her family that she was dating The Manny, so dragging Kevin to a holiday dinner seemed legit.

The structure of the show seems to be to link events of the past to the events of the current day.  The show isn't telling multiple stories, it is telling one grand story, with contributing scenes through the years.

The show is basically a prime time soap.  There will be plenty of other times to call them out for shark-jumping.

Let me know the appropriate time then to call them out for shark jumping.

As another said above, this episode seemed overstuffed.  In my opinion, too many hokey and convenient plot devices.  

[PRgal]

7 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I loved this episode so much. 

While there were some stereotypical elements in the portrayal of Sloane's family, I don't mind it because I think it's understandable when showing a large group of people who won't appear again, if ever. Besides, there were elements that defied convention. I am thinking the parents choosing Sloane to tell the story is an example. I use Friends as an example, where the Gellers favoured Ross over Monica by a large margin. The parents' love for Sloane was obvious. Even the sister wasn't 100% awful.

I am a lawyer and everywhere I worked, the firm would open on Xmas Eve but close early. I can see this with a doctor's office, especially for a consultation. I totally bought the Kate and Rebecca relationship, and bought Mandy being significantly older than Chrissy. When Kate was wishing that just 1 person supported her decision, I am hoping that 1 person is Miguel. 

Except Christmas Eve this year is on a Saturday (just being nitpicky since they got the first night of Hannukah right for this year.  I'd otherwise not mind).  Doctor's offices typically don't do Saturdays - especially if the Saturday was Christmas Eve.

[red12]

I was late to watching the episode and may have missed someone else's comment about this, but did anyone else think Kate's boyfriend's collapse may have been due to a blood clot that traveled to his heart?

The 6 hours in the middle seat means he probably didn't move much let alone stretch or walk during that flight. Then after sex he looked beyond normal tired to me. I noticed it during the scene and thought there might be a heart issue later since they have also made an issue of his diet. I wasn't expecting that ending, but afterwards I thought there were very small clues similar to Kate's initial complaint of just a stomach ache.

[Guest]

Toby mentioned the 6 hour flight at least twice, right?  So I'd be surprised if it wasn't relevant.  (I remember because I kept thinking "It's not 6 hours from LA to NJ direct, more like 5.  He must've had a connection."  But a connection would've let him walk around.)

Edited December 12, 2016 by Guest

[TVForever]

I hope Toby lives, and I'm glad he and Kate seemed to be working things out. I've seen them almost from their start as two people whose insecurities cause them to act in odd ways. But really, isn't that the case for most of the characters on this show? Except for Olivia. I think she really is rotten to the core.

Toby and Kate are just two more damaged folks learning "how to be".  I'm rooting for them, individually and as a couple.

There. I said it.

(Ducking behind a tree now)

[kassygreene]

Air travel at holiday time, in winter, and on a flight starting significantly after the crack of dawn (that last based on his arrival time at the house), will almost certainly include delays.  So yes, about 5 - 5.5 hours flying time, plus time in the plane on the ground after they push back, because an on-time departure is based on when they close the gate and push back, even if they wind up parked on a taxiway waiting for ground traffic, or (my personal favorite) having take-off delayed because they don't have a landing window.  Also could be time circling during flight or at the destination airport, again for weather or traffic.

So I think my take on it was it was only 6 hours on the plane.  But he was in a middle seat and between turbulence and the damn carts always being in the aisle, no opportunities to walk around.

[Sake614]

LAX to EWR is 5 hours flight time but closer to 6 from the time you board to the time you deplane. And sitting in a middle seat is hard enough when you're small or average size. It's got to be twice as hard when you've got some girth. I never sit for the entire flight, and generally hang out with the flight crew, make idle conversation and stretch for 10-15 minutes. Mostly because I'm bored silly lol! I become a 5-year-old on long flights (are we there yet?) without the temper tantrums ?

[JasminePhyllisia]

I'm leaning with those who think there was no suicide and Randall is mentally unstable.  The timeline simply doesn't work--they still had time to go home and celebrate Christmas Eve with family just showing up and the kids still up.  If it had really happened they would have been stuck there for hours while Randall was interviewed by police.  And his wife would have been at least slightly upset once they got home.

[OtterMommy]

5 minutes ago, JasminePhyllisia said:

I'm leaning with those who think there was no suicide and Randall is mentally unstable.  The timeline simply doesn't work--they still had time to go home and celebrate Christmas Eve with family just showing up and the kids still up.  If it had really happened they would have been stuck there for hours while Randall was interviewed by police.  And his wife would have been at least slightly upset once they got home.

Why would the police have come?  The guy didn't jump--he just walked back in the party and no one was the wiser.

(I'm not saying it wasn't a hallucination, though....)

[Guest]

If Randall's hallucinating all in his own, why bother with mushrooms last week?  

It being a hallucination doesn't make sense.  I think it was just a red herring of the BAD THING that was so heavily foreshadowed and wound up being Toby.  

[JasminePhyllisia]

Oops, never mind. I guess I wasn't paying attention, I didn't realize he walked back in.

[neuromom]

29 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Why would the police have come?  The guy didn't jump--he just walked back in the party and no one was the wiser.

(I'm not saying it wasn't a hallucination, though....)

New York is probably different, but in my city in CA, the police would have come (provided someone called them). We (meaning the police) would either respond to the party, or to the friend's house, to do a "welfare check" on the person. There may or may not be a 5150 hold (72 hour observation at county crisis center) placed on the person.

even if Randall had called the police, there would be no requirement for him to hang around for the police. He could give his information to the dispatcher. Again, this would be in CA. In any case, I found it odd that he didn't call ANYBODY. For all we know, his friend just said "screw it, I'm not doing it with this guy around" and then head out to a bridge and jump. Or jump in front of a car. 

I tend to think the episode was real...since they showed the audience his letter to Chloe and taking of his watch..all before Randall arrived.

[biakbiak]

9 minutes ago, neuromom said:

New York is probably different, but in my city in CA, the police would have come (provided someone called them). We (meaning the police) would either respond to the party, or to the friend's house, to do a "welfare check" on the person. There may or may not be a 5150 hold (72 hour observation at county crisis center) placed on the person.

The only person who would know there was an issue was Randall.

[candall]

44 minutes ago, neuromom said:

I tend to think the episode was real...

I thought the episode was real, too.  But something's tapping at my brain that suggests there's something more going on, too.

If I walked into a situation with two people--one stranger and one whom I knew, loved and trusted--and my loved one said to me, in urgent tones, "Turn around right now and go back inside," I would do a 180, and ask questions later.  I don't think Randall was in any way unclear that Beth needed to Stop!  And it seemed very strange that her reaction was "Wait just a minute, why are you speaking to me like that, blah blah blah."

I know that, technically, it gave the jumper guy time to disappear back into the party without them noticing, but it was a still an odd note.  Has Beth experienced Randall at other times when he appeared to be making inexplicable, possibly irrational, demands?  Because if not, she knows him well enough to have taken him at his word and spun around on her heel.

Unless she only saw Randall and she didn't see the jumper guy at all?  Because . . . big potted plant?

 

Randall's so much the stability anchor of the whole show, I could see them giving him some kind of disorder.

[chocolatine]

On 12/10/2016 at 9:06 AM, Tiger said:

Randal and Beth obviously both have great jobs given their house/neighborhood, cars, and their girls going to an extremely posh private school.

The kids are in a public school. When William went with Randall and Beth to Tess's Snow White play, Randall was excitedly telling William how great the school district was, "even better than private". If the school district is that good, the property taxes must be high, but I think that's still much cheaper than private school tuition for two kids.

Randall and Beth are upper middle class, but they're not so rich that they can make big impulse purchases without it making a dent in their finances (especially if they plan to retire in 10 years, like Randall said when they had the pregnancy scare).

As a Jew, I've been following the discussion of various Chanukah traditions with amusement. Chanukah has not been a big thing for most of Judaism's 5777-year history. It's a minor holiday, of which there are many in the Jewish calendar, and the only reason it's gained such a high profile in recent decades is because it's in December and being used as the Jewish equivalent to Christmas. Every Jewish family I know celebrates it differently, and many don't celebrate at all. My parents only celebrate the high holidays, so we never had Chanukah at our house. Some of my cousins who live in the NYC area get together for latkes and a "Mystery Maccabee" gift exchange, and if I happen to be visiting at the time, I participate as well, but it's very casual. It's completely possible that Sloane's family would have a "Chanukah dinner" - every family does their own thing.

And yes, if you're flying directly from West to East Coast, you're easily spending 6+ hours in your seat. I find those flights even more miserable than the 10+ hour flights from the West Coast to Europe, because the international flights have better seats and more leg room. And I'm less than half of Toby's size.

[bros402]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

The kids are in a public school. When William went with Randall and Beth to Tess's Snow White play, Randall was excitedly telling William how great the school district was, "even better than private". If the school district is that good, the property taxes must be high, but I think that's still much cheaper than private school tuition for two kids.

Randall and Beth are upper middle class, but they're not so rich that they can make big impulse purchases without it making a dent in their finances (especially if they plan to retire in 10 years, like Randall said when they had the pregnancy scare).

Yeah, here in NJ, it isn't really worth it to end a kid to private school unless there is a special need - NJ's schools as a whole are consistently in the top 3 in the nation - It's usually only MA's schools that are better.

[NutMeg]

On 12/11/2016 at 1:05 AM, OtterMommy said:

This was actually a big conflict in my family growing up.  My mother believed that the big celebration (opening gifts) was Christmas Eve and then we would just do stocking stuffers and a dinner on Christmas Day.  My father believed that Christmas Eve was going to church and then everything would happen on Christmas Day.  For along time, I was stuck in the middle.  However, once I became old enough that I actually had some say in the matter (18, by the way...) I opted for my Dad's argument.  For years, my mother would try and trick us into opening our gifts on Christmas Eve--one time, she kept us up until 3 in the morning.

However, what really "won" the argument, at least while I was still celebrating the holiday with my parents, was that my siblings and nieces started having to work until late afternoon or early evening on Christmas Eve, which made any sort of large-scale celebration impossible.

I think the big difference is if you go or not to Christmas Mass. Even if you don't go but the tradition would be to go, then Chritsmas Eve is the big thing. Otherwise Christmas day. In my family (I mean the one I built, because I grew up as a Xmas Eve kid), we tilted it more to kids age. Too young to stay up late? Christmas day. Old enough to stay up late? Xmas eve. And the best meal is ALWAYS on Xmas eve! 

On 12/11/2016 at 1:09 AM, Enigma X said:

Late last night I was able to view this episode. I still have not been able to get through all the comments. I really loved seeing Dennis O'Hare and think Jesse and William make a very handsome couple. Mandy Moore and Chrissy Metz were very believable as mother and daughter. I like Sloane a lot. Lastly, I am not a cold-hearted person but I am all for whatever it takes to get Toby off my screen.

yeah, I don't feel bad at all wishing a fictional character dead. 

On 12/12/2016 at 0:48 PM, memememe76 said:

I loved this episode so much. 

While there were some stereotypical elements in the portrayal of Sloane's family, I don't mind it because I think it's understandable when showing a large group of people who won't appear again, if ever. Besides, there were elements that defied convention. I am thinking the parents choosing Sloane to tell the story is an example. I use Friends as an example, where the Gellers favoured Ross over Monica by a large margin. The parents' love for Sloane was obvious. Even the sister wasn't 100% awful.

I like your comparison, because even though Sloane's family didn't believe in her as a playwright, they still indirectly showed that they believed in other talents of her, which I don't recall happening with the Gellers :) 

17 hours ago, red12 said:

I was late to watching the episode and may have missed someone else's comment about this, but did anyone else think Kate's boyfriend's collapse may have been due to a blood clot that traveled to his heart?

The 6 hours in the middle seat means he probably didn't move much let alone stretch or walk during that flight. Then after sex he looked beyond normal tired to me. I noticed it during the scene and thought there might be a heart issue later since they have also made an issue of his diet. I wasn't expecting that ending, but afterwards I thought there were very small clues similar to Kate's initial complaint of just a stomach ache.

Yes, that's been talked about extensively. Which is why I thing the informal rule of reading before you post is a good rule. 

16 hours ago, TVForever said:

I hope Toby lives, and I'm glad he and Kate seemed to be working things out. I've seen them almost from their start as two people whose insecurities cause them to act in odd ways. But really, isn't that the case for most of the characters on this show? Except for Olivia. I think she really is rotten to the core.

Toby and Kate are just two more damaged folks learning "how to be".  I'm rooting for them, individually and as a couple.

There. I said it.

(Ducking behind a tree now)

Interestingly, most of the characters on this show are damaged in some way, and that's what's making them so relatable. Beyond the weight issue, Kate's character of being insecure is universal, even though the reason may differ (cf. Randal, Kevin, me, you, anyone around you...). Ditto for most of the cast.   

[candall]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It's a minor holiday, of which there are many in the Jewish calendar, and the only reason it's gained such a high profile in recent decades is because it's in December and being used as the Jewish equivalent to Christmas.

And the original papal decision that the big splashy celebration to mark the birth of Christ would be in December was because there was already a major pagan festival in place around that general date.

Looks like those pagans had the last laugh after all. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Randall and Beth are upper middle class, but they're not so rich that they can make big impulse purchases without it making a dent in their finances (especially if they plan to retire in 10 years, like Randall said when they had the pregnancy scare).

We don't really know much about their finances or the boat or what Beth does or did for work.  To me, Randall's car price would suggest he could drop a lot of money casually, so does him talking of retiring in his forties.  The 3 bedroom house less so but I think that was just for drama.  (I think the boat should be a family decision as much from a safety standpoint as a financial one.)

Did Toby keep calling it a "6 hour flight"?  To me that's probably the writers exaggerating because the long time will matter.  I don't know people who extend their flight time by the time they sat before and after the flight.   It's neither here nor there, though.  I only mentioned it originally to explain why I noticed he said it twice.  

Edited December 13, 2016 by Guest

[theatremouse]

My recollection is he said "six hours in the middle seat", which if you're talking about when you sat down to when you got up, as many already did the math, is totally reasonable for what is usually a 5-5.5 hour flight.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

My recollection is he said "six hours in the middle seat", which if you're talking about when you sat down to when you got up, as many already did the math, is totally reasonable for what is usually a 5-5.5 hour flight.

You're right, I went and checked, both times were "six hours in a middle seat".  I still think the fact he mentioned it twice means it'll be pertinent.  There's not a lot of filler in shows with so many characters and stories.  Who knows, though.  Rebecca not knowing reindeer names is probably meaningless.  

[BoogieBurns]

I watched this episode with my mom, in the same house. We live in different cities, so normally we watch individually and then say "good episode last night" or the equivalent. So I didn't really know how she saw each character. 

It was a bit of a tough one to watch with my mom because I am the Kate of the family. My family is thin, I'm thick, I would not qualify for any surgery. But weight is always a discussion when I'm around, and my tiny mother seems to be a bit dense on the topic. During every scene with Chrissy Metz, my mom would say, "she is such a good actress, she is so pretty." Then the doctor's office scene, it was weird how much it felt like our lives! I just looked over and said, "you are never coming to a doctor's appointment with me." She nodded in agreement. 

But the actual shock to me was that my mom loves Toby with Kate. They are her favorites. She is looking past William, Randall, Beth, Jack, Annie, and Tess to love Toby and Kate? I think my mom is watching the show wrong if she isn't a die-hard William fan.

[mojito]

Quote

Yes, that's been talked about extensively. Which is why I thing the informal rule of reading before you post is a good rule. 

A little tough to do if you aren't retired or more idle than busy. I tend to DVR this show, and mostly don't watch it for several days after its airing. By then, the posts are over 8 pages. It would take an inordinate amount of time to read all the posts (longer than watching the show), so I usually read only a couple pages ahead before posting. Perhaps this is why the rule is informal. It's unreasonable for a show that stimulates so much conversation.

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, mojito said:

A little tough to do if you aren't retired or more idle than busy. I tend to DVR this show, and mostly don't watch it for several days after its airing. By then, the posts are over 8 pages. It would take an inordinate amount of time to read all the posts (longer than watching the show), so I usually read only a couple pages ahead before posting. Perhaps this is why the rule is informal. It's unreasonable for a show that stimulates so much conversation.

Agreed.  Sometimes people really have no choice but to jump in mid-conversation.  A little grace to our fellow posters is never a bad thing.

[SoCal Mema]

On 12/11/2016 at 9:11 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Me, too, about Toby.  Showing up at a family member's house on xmas eve, on the opposite coast, uninvited, after I broke up with you would be off the rudeness charts from what Rebecca or Kevin did with Randall.

If it helps, all hams are fully cooked when you purchase them.  You could set them out and serve them cold or room temp, if you wanted.  I think heating them for 10 minutes a pound at low temps keeps them out of the food 'danger zone' and also keeps them from drying out on heating.  And I think they taste best warm.  But if it's better for your schedule to leave it in for 5 minutes a pound or 25 minutes, I don't think there are huge consequences like with previously raw meat.  

Not ALL hams are fully cooked.  Most ham that's purchased is either cured or smoked. A fresh ham is one that hasn't been cured or smoked. It is essentially raw pork that must be completely cooked. Depending on the size of the ham, cooking can take up to 5 hours.  

As its name suggests, a pre-cooked ham has been completely cooked either by baking, curing, or smoking. Most of these types simply need to be reheated for good flavor and texture. Many such hams also can be eaten cold, just as they are, like mentioned above. These include canned hams and hams that are vacuum-packaged during processing.   In fact, packaged spiral-cut ham is best when served cold.  Picnic hams, which come from the lower part of a hog's shoulder, are smoked and technically fully cooked. But because they have more fat than the leaner, pre-cooked hams we commonly buy, sometimes they need some extra cooking and not just reheating.  Packaging should indicate which type of ham you are purchasing. If it doesn't, ask your supermarket butcher.

[theatremouse]

Devil's advocate: a lot of the stuff being discussed is getting rehashed on every page, so yeah sure, don't read all 9, but maybe start one or two back and happy medium or something?

[ShadowFacts]

Discussions tend to get circular often times.  But we do have a whole month til a new episode . . .

I wonder if there will be much of a time jump.  I think there might be some jump, because if we pick up with Toby in or just out of surgery, it will be Christmas Day.  They went from the day after Thanksgiving to Christmas Eve in the space of two episodes, so going ahead another month or so wouldn't surprise me.  It might even be spring and time for Randall's recital. 

[OtterMommy]

Just now, ShadowFacts said:

Discussions tend to get circular often times.  But we do have a whole month til a new episode . . .

I wonder if there will be much of a time jump.  I think there might be some jump, because if we pick up with Toby in or just out of surgery, it will be Christmas Day.  They went from the day after Thanksgiving to Christmas Eve in the space of two episodes, so going ahead another month or so wouldn't surprise me.  It might even be spring and time for Randall's recital. 

I forgot Randall was taking piano lessons!

My guess, and that's really all it is, is that the next episode will open right where this one left off--but I wouldn't be surprised to see a time jump later in the episode.

[photo fox]

For the record, we don't have a "must read X number of pages before posting" rule at PTV, nor will we.

If it bothers you that someone is posting about something that has already been discussed, I'd suggest skimming past it and continuing on.

[WicketyWack]

There was a bit of foreshadowing about Toby's collapse. When he came in initially, he was pretty sweaty and gasping for breath. When he came down the stairs with Kate, he was definitely gasping and wheezing, though that was to be expected given the timing I guess. Then in the ending montage you see him lifting the littler girl up and it looks like he's struggling. I wasn't surprised at all when he finally dropped the plates and hit the floor.

Yeah I'll say it: when it comes to Toby, I'm firmly on the "bye Felicia" train. I will feel bad for Kate in the show but good Lord get off my screen and get her a better storyline.

And, who grows up celebrating Christmas but doesn't know the name of Santa's reindeer? WTF Rebecca and Randall.

[theatremouse]

Oh they definitely strongly telegraphed what was happening. If they do intend to explain it as a heart attack he was probably having it basically the whole time he was in the house. People can have symptoms for hours. If they explain it as blood clot due to the plane sitting, then some of the foreshadowing, to me, seems like they were maybe intentionally trying to keep us guessing over which it might be, because the clot makes a smidge more sense in context, but the physical symptoms we saw read to me more like they were trying to say heart attack, but the words he was saying lean in the other direction. It probably doesn't matter since maybe they're not even trying to be medically specific. Just "expect dude to collapse and drama ensue".

[biakbiak]

17 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

Oh they definitely strongly telegraphed what was happening. If they do intend to explain it as a heart attack he was probably having it basically the whole time he was in the house. People can have symptoms for hours. If they explain it as blood clot due to the plane sitting, then some of the foreshadowing, to me, seems like they were maybe intentionally trying to keep us guessing over which it might be, because the clot makes a smidge more sense in context, but the physical symptoms we saw read to me more like they were trying to say heart attack, but the words he was saying lean in the other direction. It probably doesn't matter since maybe they're not even trying to be medically specific. Just "expect dude to collapse and drama ensue".

My sister had pulmonary embolisms after a flight from Spain to Boston (she had been in the hospital in Spain for a month and a half) and her symptoms were shortness of breath, chest tightening, sweating, and dizziness, so Toby symptoms would also be in line with that.

[lucindabelle]

Oh please don't let Randall have imagined the whole suicidal colleague thing. So trite.

he needn't be bipolar to spend money on himself when he feels a little down- that's why the phrase retail therapy was invented. 

 

Buy agree that regardless of  cost or their finances, - boat, like a car, usually merits a discussion.

grew up in NJ and went to public schools. The private schools are not considered better where I live. We used to joke people went there who couldn't hack it.  That said I'm sure the few around here do offer some things the public schools don't but it would be a mistake to assume anything about the Randall's finances from the fact that their kids go to public school.

[MsJamieDornan]

46 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

boat, like a car, usually merits a discussion.

Maybe it was a canoe or row boat? We might never know.

[chocolatine]

I'm getting freaked out reading all the blood clot/PE comments. I've been flying every 2-3 weeks this year for work, plus international flights to visit family, and now I feel like a ticking time bomb.

[J.D.]

On 12/13/2016 at 1:35 AM, candall said:

I thought the episode was real, too.  But something's tapping at my brain that suggests there's something more going on, too.

If I walked into a situation with two people--one stranger and one whom I knew, loved and trusted--and my loved one said to me, in urgent tones, "Turn around right now and go back inside," I would do a 180, and ask questions later.  I don't think Randall was in any way unclear that Beth needed to Stop!  And it seemed very strange that her reaction was "Wait just a minute, why are you speaking to me like that, blah blah blah."

That last part totally threw me off too.  I mean, Beth and Randall had an earlier disagreement about the boat, but it wasn't like they were fighting.  No voices had been raised.  It was all very normal and civilized.  So why did she react so snarky later on?  If Beth and Randall had just had a heated argument, then she would have had reason to believe Randall was still mad and that the fight was carrying over to the balcony, and her reaction would have been justified.  However, this is a man she knows and loves and for all intents and purposes is a mild mannered, generous person who isn't prone to having rude outburst.  The urgency and tone in his voice should have tipped Beth off that something bad was about to happen and that either (a) Randall is trying to shield her from it or (b) he's trying to signal -- 'Go get help!.'  

Beth's "DON'T YOU TALK TO ME THAT WAY--!!!!" response made me lose a little respect for her.  

[candall]

6 minutes ago, J.D. said:

The urgency and tone in his voice should have tipped Beth off that something bad was about to happen and that either (a) Randall is trying to shield her from it or (b) he's trying to signal -- 'Go get help!.'  

There's some show I watch that's written with so much attention to detail, there's no throwaway dialogue or questionable action for the sake of blocking.  (Which is where I would put this unexpected response from Beth, if it turns out nothing comes of it--i.e. they engaged in that discussion simply to give suicide guy an opportunity to exit into the party instead of over the ledge.)

But I can't remember whether that's this show, or Rectify.

If every This Is Us syllable is significant, I expect Olivia to return at some point and explain exactly why she's so sure Kate's "never met a woman like [her]."  Otherwise, it was just a mic drop exit line and we may never see Olivia again.