S03.E06: Shade

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

When Wally starts having dreams about being Kid Flash, Barry realizes he has to tell Wally, Iris and Joe about what happened to Wally in Flashpoint in order to keep him safe.

[Trini]

Producer preview:

and clip with West family tension:

[bettername2come]

I actually really liked this episode. For all the crap I give Barry about fucking up the universe, my jaw dropped at Wally's accusation that he lied about what happened in Flashpoint. Oh, Wally. You just had to touch the magic rock. Why do all the speedsters make terrible choices? I loved the Caitlin/Cisco interaction. I was shocked they had him lie only to reveal the truth so quickly, but I appreciated the realism in that. Seeing the Vibe/Killer Frost fight has me excited for the next episode. I really didn't expect everyone to find out until next week. 

And Joe and Cecille make a cute couple. And Iris got a knockout punch in. I enjoyed it.

[Primal Slayer]

They really need to up it in the votw department. Give them some actual personality. 

Quote

 

[catrice2]

Wow, just when I thought Wally could not get any more annoying!  I am tired of Wells in any form.  Nice to see Joe getting a life...then of course being made to feel guilty because he was having fun when one of his children needed him.

Did they show Julian again after he said he was going out with this girlfriend? I actually think it is Vibe that will be evil and Killer Frost not so.  I can't remember if Barry and Iris even had any scenes.  

Another evil speedster!! Yeah!...ugh no! 

[bmoore4026]

BORING!!!

[RedVitC]

A few initial thoughts:

I expected more focus on Wally, but I did like what we got. And I'm actually glad that not all issues between him and Barry are over. It felt like they skipped a step in that friendship. I hope to see that bond grow stronger.

I liked that we saw that Iris knows how to throw a punch. She has been boxing since she was a kid, so that was a nice throwback. Liked the little scene with Barry and Iris, with Barry telling her there is no Flash without Iris West. Love them and it was nice to see Iris open up a little about how she is feeling. I do hope, however, that the show starts thinking outside of the box a little more and starts better utilizing skills that are not fighting (with or without) and science + tech. Also a reason I like that HR isn't a scientist. I like the bits of Iris working we've seen this season, like her visiting Frankie's dad to get more info, i'd love to see more. Honestly, just in general I'd like the show to be more creative with how they find the metahumans/solve the cases.

Part of the fun for me is also the how and not just the battle when they find the metahuman and these days it feels like finding the metahuman is just a formality behind the Star Labs desk. Let's see some of that Barry from the pilot deducing things like Sherlock.

Not sure how I feel about Caitlin's arc, because the evil part of it feels a little lazy. Are we supposed to assume that these powers are making her evil or that she has had this inside her all this time, because so far on the show we haven't seen powers affect someone's personality (have we? Am I forgetting something?). I thought the idea was always that you choose what to do with your powers. I even believe there was a line in S1 that when you get powers you become more of who you are. I think it was in that episode with Barry's bully. And the point was that Barry getting powers brought out that part of him that wanted to help more and the bully getting powers made him an even bigger bully. But I'd have to go back and check.

That's why her suddenly wanting to kill someone last week didn't really ring true for me, nor some of the promo stuff for next week. The scenes with Caitlin and Cisco were nice, though.

Edited November 16, 2016 by RedVitC

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I can't actually say too many bad things about this episode.  'Shade' was weak sauce, but "Scimitar, the God of Speed" seems kinda badass.

I know it won't last - it is TheCW, after all - but the WestAllen has actually been just about right so far.  Not going overboard with it, while not angsting the hell out of it either.  Its actually been rather pleasant to witness.  (anxiously not awaiting for the CW-itis to take over and the bottom falls out, when it happens, though)

HR still grates, but wasn't an episode ruiner like the last couple.

[Chris24601]

53 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I actually think it is Vibe that will be evil and Killer Frost not so.

I thought exactly the same thing the moment I saw that scene.

Rule #1 of future visions in storytelling is that even if they're showing the truth, its always so out of context that it's really a lie.

Now, story-wise, if Cisco had kept his future vision to himself and kept up the lie that everything was fine for Caitlin in the future then his failure to tell her the truth would have totally led to her ending up evil. But since he told her "you're going to go evil" then he has to have interpreted what he saw incorrectly and Caitlin will totally be the good guy when that fight inevitably occurs.

The easiest out would be that Cisco is mind-controlled at the time. He gets un-whammied and its no harm, no foul. The same would go for say the Cisco from HipsterWells' world turning up as a bad guy. The messiest would be that Cisco learns that his brother was alive in the previous timeline and turns against Barry with Caitlin stuck in the middle, but I don't know how well the show would be able to come back from that sort of twist, so my money is on mind control.

I miss Harry. Why couldn't Earth 2 have been cut off from Earth 1 so Harry and Jessie couldn't go home... then we wouldn't have to put up with HR and we'd have the more fun Cisco/Harry relationship still in play. At least, if tradition holds, he probably won't stick around past the end of the season and will head home with a whole bunch of coffee plants to make himself a fortune. But until then, he's wearing on me.

[TDT]

1 minute ago, Chris24601 said:

I miss Harry. Why couldn't Earth 2 have been cut off from Earth 1 so Harry and Jessie couldn't go home... then we wouldn't have to put up with HR and we'd have the more fun Cisco/Harry relationship still in play. At least, if tradition holds, he probably won't stick around past the end of the season and will head home with a whole bunch of coffee plants to make himself a fortune. But until then, he's wearing on me.

If that Heroes Vs Aliens crossover is any indication we may see Harry and Jessie again..

[thuganomics85]

So, there is apparently a whole bunch of Grodds on HR's Earth.  Well, that sounds fun!

Dammit, Wally!  You just couldn't resist, could you?  I'm guessing he'll end up getting his powers finally, but what will be the cost?  Still not sure what to make of Alchemy and I hope they make him more interesting soon.

At least Caitlin's icy little secret is out, even if it was because Cisco had to be a dick about it and basically gave her no choice but to tell everyone else.  But I'm all for no more secrets, since they never go well ever on shows.  As for Cisco's little "vibe" into the future, I totally think there is going to be a swerve, and it is actually Cisco who is the aggressor and maybe the one in the wrong, and not Caitlin turning into Evil Killer Frost.

Julian has a girlfriend, it seems.  And then the episode goes out of its way to have Joe point out that he is nowhere to be found, before the raid.  Yep, if he's not Alchemy, they are clearly setting something up with him.  I still hope they don't make him evil, because he really is becoming one of my favorite things about this season.

Joe actually goes on his date, so maybe that will lead somewhere, assuming she wasn't actually charmed by HR being HR enough to suddenly go for him.

The scene between Barry and Iris was nice at least.

[Cthulhudrew]

What if Frost and Vibe were just training? Does he actually know what was going on there (instinctual feeling) or is it just interpretation? I know an episode or two ago when Caitlin went to visit her mom, she seemed to freak out and get violent, but it seems strange to me that she'd get that way just because "powers" as opposed to just being on edge because she isn't sure what's happening to her.

She did give Barry an evil look when he confessed it's all his fault, though. So maybe what turns her evil is just getting back at Barry for his stupid mistakes that screw up everyone else's lives. Would kind of serve him right. Danielle Panabaker's finally being given something to do on the show, though, so that's okay.

Shade was kind of lame, but otherwise the episode was all right.

[Lantern7]

"LISTEN ALL Y'ALL, IT'S SAVITAR!!!!!" It would be nice if we'd get a good guy speedster who isn't a putz or a murderer. Why can't we have Max Mercury? Savitar was good in Mark Waid's "Dead Heat" storyline, but I don't know if he could be a memorable show villain.

I'm guessing James Robinson's Shade hangs out in Earth-2. This one . . . meh. Less of an impact than the Shade from Justice League.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, when will we see Kid Butterfly, err, I mean Kid Flash, bust out of his cocoon?

[Maverick]

I only know about comic characters from Justice League, but isn't The Shade supposed to be a man with a top hat and cane rather than....a shapeless blob of smoke?

 Caitlin was definitely pissed at Barry about her getting powers thanks to his meddling.  I think that's going to fester and, along with Cisco outing her, will contribute to her going evil.   If they do make Cisco the one going evil, then I would think he finds out his brother died thanks to Barry.  

 They're making it painfully obvious that Julian is Alchemy, which makes me hope he's actually not.   But if not him, then who would it be?   Zolomon?  Another Jay / Henry?  Wells from Earth-Cosplay?  Grodd?  Eddie?

[Last Time Lord]

I know nothing of the character, but damn do I love the look of Savitar.

[scarynikki12]

This season, Julian has been my new boyfriend for not giving a shit about Barry but, tonight, Wally was making a case for a threesome because I loved him telling Barry off for messing with their lives. 

I randomly decided that I want Alchemy to be Joe's date.  The Flash Big Bads get a lot of story time so I say let this season's be a woman.

[Xenith22]

First of all was it just me....or was anyone else wondering when Savitar merged with Ultron?  Savitar has always been rather primitive in nature...so seeing him as some kind of metal thing was strange.

Barry saying he could not be the Flash without Iris sounded rather ominous to me...   Something is probably going to happen to her by the finale.

[VCRTracking]

That little bit of the future Killer Frost vs Vibe fight looked awesome. I can't wait to see the whole thing. I hope we don't lose "good" Caitlin completely when she finally turns into Killer Frost.

I don't think Julian is Alchemy. It's too obvious.

Man, Barry seems so blase now about all the lives he's ruined with his time travel stunt, it seems.

[twoods]

Julian as Alchemy is way too obvious by him missing as they were fighting him. I like his character so hope they don't make him evil and have him be some other person. The last five minutes freaked me out- Savitar is creepy as fuck. What did Wally turn into and why did he touch the creepy rock? I hope Jesse comes back and knocks some sense into him. 

Finally everyone knows about Caitlin, and loved her scenes with Cisco. 

I hate how we ended in a cliffhanger and next week's episode shows clips of something different. Stupid ass promo monkeys- way to ruin the suspense.

[ybrik]

Maybe it is just me but did Savitar look like Megatron from the live action Transformers movies?

I think that GG and CP have really good chemistry but I am just so tired of Barry and Iris. And I think there is a couple of problems. First there was the whole growing up in the same household. That started them off on the wrong foot but could have been okay if only Barry didn't annoy me when he is with Iris. His whole I wouldn't be a hero without you bit just seems so over the top but looking back the show has seem to be making it that Barry does seem to constantly need Iris to reassure him for Barry to succeed in whatever problem he gets in during the week. As I said I don't have a problem the actors together because I enjoyed them as Earth 2 Barry/Iris and I liked their chemistry when Iris was into the Flash but didn't know he was Barry at the beginning of the series.

Yeah not getting a good feeling from the looks Caitlin gave Barry when he told her that he was responsible for her getting powers because he was screwing with the timelines.

[BkWurm1]

First thoughts before I read anything, so forgive me if I'm repeating what others have said

First off,  Barry, as much as I want to blame you for everything, if Caitlin was hiding her power for months, you would not know if she had them or not, so you really don't know if that particular thing was because of Flashpoint.  

As for Cisco vibing them in a fight, anyone else wishing there was a twist and it's Cisco that has gone evil and not Caitlin?  His E2 counterpart was just as evil as Killer Frost.  Maybe Caitlin can have a few bad days (aka next week) and get better.

As much as it made sense for Caitlin to tell everyone about her abilities, Cisco was way out of line for not at least warning her that he was going to say something. He can't hide it any longer?  Seriously?  Still, I had no problem with Caitlin forgiving him for spilling her secret but really hated that she apologized but he didn't.   

As for Alchemy, why didn't Barry pull the bad guy's mask off when he had the chance?  And honestly, I'm really not digging ANOTHER evil speedster.  I was so confused too at first over what was going on.  Had to rewatch the whole fight before I was sure Alchemy had not just turned into to the God of Speed.  

I am enjoying finding HR annoying.  He is annoying but I am amused by it.   

[zannej]

This was an interesting one. I find it amusing that Cisco thought HR stole his cuffs-- and HR's rambling about not knowing anyone well enough to be at the cuffs stage cracked me up. Well, more the reactions he got to saying it than anything.

Caitlin revealing her powers to Cisco seemed to come a little out of the blue. I felt like I had missed something. I did like how they bonded and how Cisco and Caitlin continue to care about one another and be friends. I do hope that the fight he saw wasn't Caitlin being evil but something he misinterpreted.

Did anyone else notice that in a previous episode when HR told the story of his Flash facing off against all of the villains, he never said how it ended? What if the villains won? Could that be why he wanted to escape?

I'm sick so my brain isn't working well enough to remember what else I wanted to say.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I miss Harry. Why couldn't Earth 2 have been cut off from Earth 1 so Harry and Jessie couldn't go home... then we wouldn't have to put up with HR and we'd have the more fun Cisco/Harry relationship still in play. At least, if tradition holds, he probably won't stick around past the end of the season and will head home with a whole bunch of coffee plants to make himself a fortune. But until then, he's wearing on me.

In one of the episode write ups we were having an epic discussion on time travel, alternate time lines, parallel worlds and paradoxes and the big one was while Harry and Jesse retained their original timeline memories because E2 was not affected by Flashpoint, the Star Lab's crew and Joe and Iris remembered a different timeline that ALSO included a Harry and Jesse that eventually went home with the memories of the altered timeline.  

They could have had it that shortly after Original version of Harry and Jesse went home, they discovered their alternative timeline selves had also returned, the paradox of the redone timeline creating the second set of them.  Both sets would travel to the same other earth, that wouldn't have changed, so both would have been on E2 and of course that would have been a nightmare, which could have led to original timeline Harry and Jesse returning to our world because they didn't need to be on E2, the other version was there.  

Poof, Flashpoint would have given us them permanently.   

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

 

I randomly decided that I want Alchemy to be Joe's date.  The Flash Big Bads get a lot of story time so I say let this season's be a woman.

Working off of that, she mentioned her daughter.  How about if something has happened to her because of Flashpoint and mom is trying to make it right, like it was in the other timeline?  Or maybe Alchemy is just someone she knows that is trying to help her whether she wants it or not.    

[MadyGirl1987]

First off; Wally... I wish I could be surprised that you would pick up a villaina glowing rock of evil, but you were willing to jump in front of oncoming vehicles to "kick-start" powers you weren't sure you had, so....

I really liked the end and reveal of the Savitar. Had a real horror movie vibe.

Like that Caitlin's powers are out in the open now. Keeping something like that secret would only serve to hurt the team.

[Richness]

HR is getting on every last one of my nerves. I just want to shove those drumsticks in various body orifices. At least HR doesn't use Harry's gravelly Batman voice. Even Harry seemed to have gotten rid of it when he came back this season.

I also don't get the Caitlin's whole angst over revealing her powers to everyone. They didn't turn on Cisco; they aren't going to turn on her. They were both evil on Earth-2, so why the big deal? It just doesn't make sense.

Granted, Cisco shouldn't have outed her like that. When will these people learn that keeping secrets is a bad thing. They don't seem to care about hiding secret identities that much with conversations in very public areas, so why persist with the other secrets? They're only going to come out anyway at the worst possible time.

Those complaints aside, I still like this show. I just wish they wouldn't try to so hard to annoy me.

[Latverian Diplomat]

7 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

They really need to up it in the votw department. Give them some actual personality. 

Seriously, Shade's actually an interesting character in the comics/DCAU.

They need to develop more villains like Captain Cold and Grodd that are good for more than a one and done appearance.

Also, getting tired of evil speedsters. And Joe brings in the police just so we can have a bunch of red shirts to get slaughtered. He's gonna run out of friends on the force.

[themadman]

FUCK THIS, I HAVE HAD IT TO UP TO MY EYEBALLS WITH EVIL SPEEDSTERS!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The best thing about the Killer Frost stuff this week was when Cisco and Caitlin talked about it. I love their platonic friendship.

I do not understand why no one tried to take off Alchemy's mask when he was kneeling on the ground. Nope, let's just all stand around talking instead of unmasking this bad guy. THINK, YOU GUYS, THINK!

Edited November 16, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[cambridgeguy]

Savitar looks like he'd soak up the CGI budget so I'm not sure how much we'll be seeing of him.  While I don't think we need to see yet another evil speedster the count isn't as bad as it feels.  On the good side we've got Barry, Jesse, Jay, and Wally (presumably) while the bad guys consist of RF, Zoom, the Rival, and now Savitar. 

The writers seem to be stuck in a weird loop with Barry and their main villain.  In theory Barry should be able to easily beat any non-speedster villain, so the main bad guy has to be one by default.  However, we've seen that Barry is sloppy/cocky enough to be beaten by non-speedsters so they don't have to keep going back to evil speedsters. 

Turning Iris into Lois Lane isn't the perfect solution but it beats what they're doing to Daily Planet alumni James Olsen on Supergirl so I hope we see her doing her thing in future episodes.  These shows are giving the impression that you're useless if you're not a hero/vigilante, a science/tech genius, or a cop (and most cops are nothing more than red shirts anyway).

[blugirlami21]

This episode really annoyed me.  Do they want me to dislike Wally?  He was such a brat in this episode.  We understand that you want to have powers Wally.  We get it.  What I don't understand is your inability to accept that we don't always get what we want in life.  And you throwing a tantrum about it week after week does you no favors.  I wish that they would turn down the volume on that aspect of your character.  You jumping in front of people's cars (which could have seriously injured someone) and calling Barry a liar does not help your case.

I don't care that Cisco outed Caitlin.  She was being stupid, same way she has been for the last couple of months.  Her solution was also stupid.  Running away from the only people who can help you is not a solution.  You obviously have a hard time controlling your powers right now with help from your friends.  What's going to happen a couple of months down the road?  You will just become some other cities' problem.

Why is the fact that their lives were different in flashpoint a revelation at this point???  Also the fact that Barry created it shouldn't be one either.  Did they forget that he told them all this at the beginning of the season?

I don' t think that Barry is or will ever be blase about creating the flashpoint timeline.  He feels awful about it every time they find another husk, every time a new difference is discovered hence the hand wringing and indecision over how to fix it.  It's ultimately a situation that can't be fixed.  I was surprised and a little disappointed that Iris and Joe didn't pick up on that.  Speaking of Iris, I feel like her sudden concern over her importance in Barry's life was out of left field.  The show has shown time and time again how important Iris is to Barry and the flash.  I don't however think that means she's in any more danger than she would be normally.

I too am over the multiple speedster every season thing.  Are there no other kinds of metahumans that can challenge Barry?  It makes Barry seem ordinary which is unfortunate.  Him saying that he is the fastest man alive every week looks more and more like a bold faced lie every time the newest speedster is introduced and they are almost always faster than he is.

[KirkB]

I'm still confused by Caitlin. The big thing this season has been Alchemy giving people (like the Rival, Magenta and now Wally) the powers they had during Flashpoint. Fair enough. A standard, if odd (since what does he get out of it?) villainous plot. But Caitlin didn't have any powers, at least as far as we saw. She was just an optometrist or something. Killer Frost was on another Earth. So is the idea Barry's messing with time changed the past enough that Caitlin got powers from the particle accelerator like Cisco, but unlike his they have only now begun to manifest?

I hope Tom Cavanaugh is enjoying himself (he certainly seems to be) because I am not sold on HR. I'm not sure I understand why the show needs a Harrison Wells at all. Especially introducing a new one, or a new version of one at least. It just takes time away from the existing characters. But the CW superhero shows like to introduce more and more new people so I'll just go with it.

I agree with everyone saying Cisco was probably reading that vibe wrong. He saw himself and Caitlin fighting, but with no context it's difficult to know the truth. She could be the bad one, he could, they could have been sparring. Hell, maybe that's their future version of foreplay. I've been around long enough to know visions of the future are almost never what they appear to be.

Lazy, obvious writing would mean Julian is Alchemy. They couldn't hammer that in any more clearly. Which means, given the track record of these shows, there is a fifty fifty chance Julian IS actually Alchemy, but I'm hoping it's a red herring. As for who it is if it's not him, my money is on Joe's new squeeze. She was the only other character to really stick out.

[Lady Calypso]

I think Wally forgot that Barry asked them all in episode 2 if they wanted to know about their alter egos and everyone said no! And if I recall correctly, Wally was also there! So fuck off Wally, with the accusations. Wally's just a brat. I really did like him, until all of this happened. I knew him becoming a speedster was going to cause more problems. I don't care about Wally becoming Kid Flash. If anything, it becomes even more annoying. 

I'm also annoyed by HR. I'm sorry, but I much prefer Batman Harry than HR. I also want Fun Cisco back. This Cisco is just too different for me to enjoy him. 

I liked that Caitlin finally told Cisco. It only took her four episodes. I liked their talk about it as well. I do think that the future that Cisco vibed is unclear. For all we know, they were just training or they were pretend fighting in front of a villain as a distraction. Having Barry talk to Caitlin was good, because we saw what was in both of their heads. 

The little we got of Barry/Iris was really good and cute. I'm finally warming back up to them. I was happy to see Iris punch Wally out. That was what I've wanted to see. I don't blame Iris for opening his cage because she was concerned about him and he seemed to be in pain. But at least she punched him out to stop him. 

I don't think Julian is Alchemy, although I'm wondering if he's in contact and working for Alchemy. Maybe he's trying to work for Alchemy and do what they want because he wants powers in the end. It's just too obvious that it would be him, with the whole "Julian didn't come into work just as we're going to find Alchemy" bit. I'd laugh if Alchemy was Cecile. 

ANOTHER FUCKING EVIL SPEEDSTER? FUCK OFF, SHOW. We've now had six speedsters in the last six episodes (Barry, Jay, Jesse, Rival, Wally, and now Savitar). I'm done with speedsters. 

Savitar looks creepy and cool.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Lady Calypso
six speedsters, not five

[KirkB]

35 minutes ago, blugirlami21 said:

I too am over the multiple speedster every season thing.  Are there no other kinds of metahumans that can challenge Barry?  It makes Barry seem ordinary which is unfortunate.  Him saying that he is the fastest man alive every week looks more and more like a bold faced lie every time the newest speedster is introduced and they are almost always faster than he is.

I didn't see this before I posted but I agree. In the first season it was sadly ironic to have every episode open that way after it was revealed Reverse Flash was so much faster than him. Then it happened again in season two with Zoom. Now it looks like Jesse is probably just as fast, though at least Barry can still get away with the man part. Once Wally wakes up he'll have that same kind of speed and so, apparently, does Savitar.

[mrspidey]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

ANOTHER FUCKING EVIL SPEEDSTER? FUCK OFF, SHOW. We've now had six speedsters in the last six episodes (Barry, Jay, Jesse, Rival, Wally, and now Savitar). I'm done with speedsters. 

Savitar looks creepy and cool.

While I get that having speedsters overrepresented in Flash's rogue AND sidekick gallery feels kinda boring, that's just keeping it close to the source material. There's a ton of speedsters in the comics too, so this is nothing out of the ordinary. 

[Sakura12]

It's been proven over and over again that it was very presumptuous of Barry calling himself the fastest man alive when almost every other speedster we met was faster than him, and he had to learn to run faster.  You are obviously not the fastest man alive yet, Barry. Maybe you should stop calling yourself that. 

They should've just had Wally get his powers when Jesse did, not by going to the villain. That actually makes it worse and seem more like a villain origin story not a hero. Also do these writers not understand that wanting be a hero so people will call you a hero is not very heroic. It's happening on Supergirl too. Do they want me to think less of their supposed hero when they have selfish reasons for putting on a costume?

[maxineofarc]

7 hours ago, twoods said:

Julian as Alchemy is way too obvious by him missing as they were fighting him. I like his character so hope they don't make him evil and have him be some other person. The last five minutes freaked me out- Savitar is creepy as fuck. What did Wally turn into and why did he touch the creepy rock? I hope Jesse comes back and knocks some sense into him. 

Finally everyone knows about Caitlin, and loved her scenes with Cisco. 

I hate how we ended in a cliffhanger and next week's episode shows clips of something different. Stupid ass promo monkeys- way to ruin the suspense.

I'm really hoping it's just TOO obvious, because I really like Julian and I'm impressed with Tom Felton's performance. I've even stopped thinking of him as Malfoy. Mostly.

I usually like Cisco and Caitlin scenes, but I'm still up in the air on whether he should have outed her. I'd wondered why she hadn't confided in him sooner, and I suppose that's the answer. On the one hand he's right that Team Flash doesn't work very well when people are keeping secrets, but on the other she forgave him awfully quickly. As for her power situation, I'm happy she's getting a storyline, but I'm also baffled as to why she thinks she's "turning evil." We have seen her lash out with her cold powers, but why does she feel they're taking her over? Are they? I need to see this examined in a little more depth.

I still love TC, but I'm about done with HR.

Even though Cisco vibed himself battling Killer Frost, he can only witness what's happening, he can't tell what his future-self is thinking or feeling, so I'm going along with the theory that it's Vibe who is the bad guy in this scenario. He looked good, though. That's not nothing.

[Primetimer]

But sadly, not in the Latrice Royale way.

View the full article

[themadman]

The Flash, every season: "My name is Barry Allen, and I am the fastest man alive."

Me, every season: "No, you're not, Barry."

Seriously, every season's Big Bad has been faster than Barry.

In this episode, Savitar was moving so fast he looked like a blur to Barry.

[HunterHunted]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, there is apparently a whole bunch of Grodds on HR's Earth.  Well, that sounds fun!

I was really hoping that Wells would have revealed something really bonkers about the Grodds, like they're his earth's version of the Osbournes or the Kardashians. Or that Grodd Industries is HR Wells' biggest corporate rival.

Edited November 16, 2016 by HunterHunted

[JapMo]

10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I randomly decided that I want Alchemy to be Joe's date. 

yes, Yes, YES!!!   I was thinking that last night...have Alchemy be a woman.  Even if she isn't...she's interested in Joe?  Puhleeze.  I like Joe, but this woman would not be going after older men.  She'd be cougaring someone like...ahhh....well on this show let me think of what hot guys they have.   Can Eddie come back?  Yeah, I know, Grant is a cutie, but I'm talking smokin hot.

[JapMo]

9 hours ago, ybrik said:

I think that GG and CP have really good chemistry but I am just so tired of Barry and Iris. And I think there is a couple of problems. First there was the whole growing up in the same household. That started them off on the wrong foot but could have been okay if only Barry didn't annoy me when he is with Iris. His whole I wouldn't be a hero without you bit just seems so over the top but looking back the show has seem to be making it that Barry does seem to constantly need Iris to reassure him for Barry to succeed in whatever problem he gets in during the week. As I said I don't have a problem the actors together because I enjoyed them as Earth 2 Barry/Iris and I liked their chemistry when Iris was into the Flash but didn't know he was Barry at the beginning of the series.

They need to have some fun together.  They are joyless.  Take last night.  Why wasn't she sitting on his lap and the two of them making out instead of watching Wally?  If they are only going to give them 10 second scenes here and there if/until they hit the sheets or say I Do, have them all over each other like couples falling in love are.  Or doing silly things and wanting to always be with each other.  Get them the hell out of Star Labs.    

[RedVitC]

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I think Wally forgot that Barry asked them all in episode 2 if they wanted to know about their alter egos and everyone said no! And if I recall correctly, Wally was also there! So fuck off Wally, with the accusations. Wally's just a brat. I really did like him, until all of this happened. 

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They should've just had Wally get his powers when Jesse did, not by going to the villain. That actually makes it worse and seem more like a villain origin story not a hero. Also do these writers not understand that wanting be a hero so people will call you a hero is not very heroic. It's happening on Supergirl too. Do they want me to think less of their supposed hero when they have selfish reasons for putting on a costume?

I have to defend Wally on this point. Yes, they said they didn't want to know about their FP lives, but the minute Barry found out that Alchemy was giving back people from FP their powers, going after them one by one, he should have told Wally. It was only a matter of time before Alchemy would go after Wally (especially since he went after The Rival, Wally's main enemy in FP). If Barry had told them they'd have had more time to come up with and execute a plan instead of this last ditch plan they went with now.

Wanting to help people in the way you feel you were meant to is not the same as wanting to be called a hero. Wanting to be a hero is not the same as wanting to be called a hero (I missed the first few minutes, so maybe I missed something he said?). Wally has always felt that void, that need, as if there was something missing. I think that he was also Kid Flash in the original timeline (the real original timeline, the one Eobard changed to the timeline we've come to know) and has always felt somehow that that speed was missing. If the Speedforce is really something that transcends time itself, I think it makes sense that you feel the loss of it even in another timeline.

Edited November 16, 2016 by RedVitC
To make it more clear who I'm talking about

[RustbeltWriter]

The show really missed a chance to bring in James Robinson's Shade from Starman. Too bad.

[stlbf]

What is truly bothering me concerning Caitlin getting powers is that no one seems to remember that Caitlin ISN'T Killer Frost. She has developed cold based powers. Killer Frost from Earth 2 was her own psychotic person. They had vastly different POV on life. Just like Cisco isn't Reverb. They don't have to turn into their worst self versions.

[TobinAlbers]

12 hours ago, Maverick said:

They're making it painfully obvious that Julian is Alchemy, which makes me hope he's actually not.   But if not him, then who would it be?   Zolomon?  Another Jay / Henry?  Wells from Earth-Cosplay?  Grodd?  Eddie?

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Working off of that, she mentioned her daughter.  How about if something has happened to her because of Flashpoint and mom is trying to make it right, like it was in the other timeline?  Or maybe Alchemy is just someone she knows that is trying to help her whether she wants it or not.    

Yep, I'd love the change up of a season long female big bad for once and I don't want the obvious play of Tom Felton to be Alchemy.  I do think that he'll ultimately be wiped out by whatever timeline corrections happen by end of season. Although he may be in a better place in the 'original' timeline which we will see at season's end.

16 minutes ago, stlbf said:

What is truly bothering me concerning Caitlin getting powers is that no one seems to remember that Caitlin ISN'T Killer Frost. She has developed cold based powers. Killer Frost from Earth 2 was her own psychotic person. They had vastly different POV on life. Just like Cisco isn't Reverb. They don't have to turn into their worst self versions.

At least they're being consistent. These guys still don't differentiate between Eobard Thawne wearing Harrison Wells' face and Earth 1 Harrison Wells. As far as they're concerned Harrison Wells is evil and all Wells are by default shady until proven otherwise, which is just lazy. The E1 HW we saw before he and his fiance were murdered by all accounts was a great guy and scientist. It's bad enough that he will wrongly go down in history as a sociopathic evil genius killer but even the people who know the truth continue to refer to Eobard's victim as evil. 

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

I don' t think that Barry is or will ever be blase about creating the flashpoint timeline.  He feels awful about it every time they find another husk, every time a new difference is discovered hence the hand wringing and indecision over how to fix it.  It's ultimately a situation that can't be fixed.  I was surprised and a little disappointed that Iris and Joe didn't pick up on that.  Speaking of Iris, I feel like her sudden concern over her importance in Barry's life was out of left field.  The show has shown time and time again how important Iris is to Barry and the flash.  I don't however think that means she's in any more danger than she would be normally.

 

Oh, I'd say it does mean Iris is in the crosshairs.  Otherwise, why make a point of spelling it out at this time, right before the introduction of a super duper evol speed god?  I don't think CP is going anywhere, or anything like that, but now that Iris and Barry are on the same page, you know TPTB will want to break them up but it's really more like a ship stall at this stage since they are only just barely dating, so any reason they come up with to break them up to be a misguided decision and what is more classically a misguided reason for a hero to break up with his heroine than because he thinks the life he leads is too dangerous?  

So put Iris in mortal danger (and actually harm her) and then Barry can freak out and overcompensate by pushing her away.  Won't that be fun!  (Still more fun than hiding a secret child from your fiance but being fine with your worst enemy knowing)

The people behind Arrow and the Flash (and the rest) have a tendency to repeat story lines.  This is season three and in season three of Arrow, one date and then 19 episodes apart.  I'd say Iris will be in the crosshairs by the winter finale.  To be clear, all of this is just spec based on watching lots of tv for too many years.  

Y

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ep, I'd love the change up of a season long female big bad for once and I don't want the obvious play of Tom Felton to be Alchemy.  I do think that he'll ultimately be wiped out by whatever timeline corrections happen by end of season. Although he may be in a better place in the 'original' timeline which we will see at season's end

I seriously doubt there will be any timeline corrections.  

[rtms77]

I'm going out on a limb and thinking that the Vibe we saw fighting Caitlin was from another earth. This Cisco is very reluctant to use his powers and not at all comfortable in battle with them the way the vision was using them.

As for the outing, I didn't like it at all. Cisco has shown that he is very afraid of Killer Frost and way over concerned about Caitlin turning into her. Now suddenly he cares? You could see the fear in him the moment she demonstrated her powers to him. From then on his reactions were born out of fear, not concern for her.

As for Caitlin concerns, she wasn't this worried last season when teasing Cisco so something happened in this timeline to freak her out. It would also explain why she thinks she will suddenly turn evil. Maybe this current timlines Frost told her that the change also screwed her mind up somehow. There are just so many holes to fill thanks to Barry's timeline mess. I really hope she kicks his butt for being so selfish.

[SimoneS]

It isn't good when I come away feeling stupid for watching a show, but I did. Every time Barry says "flashpoint," I roll my eyes. At least the truth is out about Caitlyn so that is good.

[maxineofarc]

47 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

I'm going out on a limb and thinking that the Vibe we saw fighting Caitlin was from another earth. This Cisco is very reluctant to use his powers and not at all comfortable in battle with them the way the vision was using them.

As for the outing, I didn't like it at all. Cisco has shown that he is very afraid of Killer Frost and way over concerned about Caitlin turning into her. Now suddenly he cares? You could see the fear in him the moment she demonstrated her powers to him. From then on his reactions were born out of fear, not concern for her.

As for Caitlin concerns, she wasn't this worried last season when teasing Cisco so something happened in this timeline to freak her out. It would also explain why she thinks she will suddenly turn evil. Maybe this current timlines Frost told her that the change also screwed her mind up somehow. There are just so many holes to fill thanks to Barry's timeline mess. I really hope she kicks his butt for being so selfish.

Good observation about Cisco. I wondered about that too, and whether what he was seeing was yet another doppelganger.

With the whole flashpoint situation, I feel like everything I know about these characters I've gotten to like (or in some cases tolerate) over two seasons is totally in question. What happened that Cisco/Caitlin are so afraid? No idea! Whatever character development they've had has been effectively offscreen as these versions didn't exist for the viewers until Barry picked a timeline to go with, so I have no idea if I should still be invested in these people or not.