S01.E06: Career Days

[ClareWalks]

4 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

I am so fed up though with this trope that for gifted kids to succeed in life, they need to go to private school.

That's a good point. I wonder why the principal didn't suggest some other options (like a G&T program, or a tutor, or maybe even skipping a grade). 

[PRgal]

7 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

I like Olivia, and don't really see a problem with the memorial-crashing.  It's not like they made anyone feel bad.

I am so fed up though with this trope that for gifted kids to succeed in life, they need to go to private school.  (Despite loving the show in general, this bugged the crap out of me about the premise of Gilmore Girls.) I honestly believe that gifted kids (like mine, who go to public school) will do great wherever they go, and their good grades and high test scores will get them into elite postsecondary programs.  In that sense, I see the whole private school thing as something close to a scam.  Look at all the high profile graduates of our school!  Well, sure, because all the elite parents are scared not to go this route, and they don't realize their kids would have done great anyway.

There are also public school programs for gifted kids.  They usually require testing and admissions is basically like a private school.  Except, of course, you save like $20-30K.

[topanga]

13 hours ago, twoods said:

 

I was already teary eyed after Kevin's breakdown but young Randall crying about being different from his siblings floored me. He is one talented actor, and Milo's chemistry with all the young actors is amazing. I really do feel that he is their father. 

 

I don't care anymore that Lonnie Chavis looks nothing like Sterling K. Brown. That kid is a gem of an actor. 

 

5 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The mom of Randall's African American can tone down the attitude a bit.  I understand what she is saying, but both Jack and Rebecca's initial interactions with her over a simple question, this episode and at the pool, were so off putting and negative. 

I agree. I really want to like the character, but Yvette keeps rubbing me the wrong way. I wonder if it's the writing (or the directing), or if the actress is choosing to play her "sassy, with attitude."

 

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I think Kate's description of Rebecca being the most beautiful who ever beautifuled and who still has men fall at her feet at age 66 or whatever is likely more her own vision of her, based on growing up and her own insecurities, than reality, tho I do think Mandy Moore is beautiful.

This was my impression. It seems like Kate always saw herself as the ugly fat girl with the hot mom. I'm sure it has affected their relationship over the years.

Edited November 2, 2016 by topanga

[ChromaKelly]

12 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

That's a good point. I wonder why the principal didn't suggest some other options (like a G&T program, or a tutor, or maybe even skipping a grade). 

Yeah, I really can't see a public school recommending a student NOT attend public school anymore, unless they are such a bad fit and the school system has exhausted every opportunity to serve that child.
This is the 80's when kids were all tested and put in their tracks - below average, average, and GT. Everyone knew who was in what. There were no attempts to mainstream or come up with cute names for the reading and math groups in elementary school. I remember our reading groups were gold, silver, and bronze. Gee, lets crack that code. I thought when I saw the previews about Randall being gifted, he was going to get moved to the GT class while K&K stayed behind and that would cause a rift.
Oh well, this is TV, and for plot expediency, this is the route they went.

[Biggie B]

Quote

Oh well, this is TV, and for plot expediency, this is the route they went.

Agreed - by having Randall go to a private school, that sets up Jack to sacrifice his dream of having his own business, and having to stay in a job he seems to hate. It's a breeding ground for smoldering resentment, possible tension between Jack and Miguel (if Miguel ends up being Jack's supervisor/boss/superior), and also possible financial difficulties for the whole family (e.g., all disposable income goes towards Randall's tuition) - all of which makes for "better" story lines.

[desertflower]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm really impressed with the writing, and Sterling, Milo, and the kid who plays Baby Randall really knock me out - I'm a huge fan of acting and I pay a lot of attention to it.

Yes to all this. I started watching the show BECAUSE of Milo and Sterling, who blew me away in the OJ miniseries, and they have not disappointed. And I just want to hug little Randall. Little Kate is sweet too. 

I love this show but I hated them having sex in the house at the memorial service. Is that supposed to be funny? Awful. I wish Kevin had put a stop to that; they could've taken it back to his hotel. I also hate when shows have scenes with people having sex in a kid's room, like if they are at someone's party and they sneak away to the child's room to do it. No! Just no!

[Amy88888]

  5 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The mom of Randall's African American can tone down the attitude a bit.  I understand what she is saying, but both Jack and Rebecca's initial interactions with her over a simple question, this episode and at the pool, were so off putting and negative. 

I will have to watch it again but my intitial impression was Yvette had a so you asking me because I'm black attitude. I thought yes he is and isn't that's what he's suppose to do the same way Rebecca was suppose to introduce herself to you and the other black mothers at the pool.

I thought this at first too, but then she said she's basically not going to be the one they can blame for keeping Randall out of private school. I think Jack was just looking for her (as a black woman) to say keeping him out was the right thing to do, and there you go, easy resolution. But she refused to be that excuse, and Randall went to the school that was recommended for him.

[topanga]

6 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

Yeah, I really can't see a public school recommending a student NOT attend public school anymore, unless they are such a bad fit and the school system has exhausted every opportunity to serve that child.
This is the 80's when kids were all tested and put in their tracks - below average, average, and GT. Everyone knew who was in what. There were no attempts to mainstream or come up with cute names for the reading and math groups in elementary school. I remember our reading groups were gold, silver, and bronze. Gee, lets crack that code. I thought when I saw the previews about Randall being gifted, he was going to get moved to the GT class while K&K stayed behind and that would cause a rift.
Oh well, this is TV, and for plot expediency, this is the route they went.

I'm a victim of the "public school to public school" experiments of the '80s. And let me tell you, it wasn't fun.

I was nowhere near as smart as Randall (I could never solve a Rubik's cube or figure out the number of 2 x 4s needed to build a wall), but at the end of 3rd grade, the teachers and principal at my inner-city school considered having me skip the 4th grade. But they and my mother were worried about the social implications of being a young 5th grader, so they decided to send me to a supposedly-more challenging school. i.e. an all-white school on the outskirts of my city (but still within the school district). The school wasn't more challenging, the teachers weren't smarter and didn't teach better than the teachers at my old school. But I left a situation with lots of friends and lots of people who looked at me, and in my new environment, I was one of only two black kids in the entire school (my brother was the other one). I was quiet and didn't make friends--the kids thought my brown skin looked strange and thought my frizzy hair was weird. Most of them had never seen a black person in the flesh. 

I'm glad Randall's experience in the private school turned out okay in the end (although I wonder what those years were like for him). 

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

You're a transpondster!

THAT`S NOT EVEN A WORD!!!!

[Lyndy]

Two bits of feedback that jive with pretty much everyone else's opinions.

1. Didn't miss Toby at all. Hate that guy.

2. Young Randall is regularly destroying me. He's so good. 

[Emily Thrace]

31 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

That's a good point. I wonder why the principal didn't suggest some other options (like a G&T program, or a tutor, or maybe even skipping a grade). 

Yeah that puzzled me too a bit. Things like that can vary so much between districts though its possible the school didn't have those programs. Or because Randall tested high specifically in math (which doesn't always translate to an aptitude for English and other subjects.) the private school probably has more flexibility with programming than a public one does. I also wonder if Randall didn't qualify for a scholarship being black and gifted seems like it would have qualified him for something particularly given that this was the era when integrating schools was really  happening in a lot of areas. It didn't affect private schools as much but a lot them did start being more aware of diversity and starting programs because it was a hot topic.

[cardigirl]

16 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

II do feel bad for Kevin, who still is the odd one out. Jack and Rebecca both have such complicated relationships with Kate and Randall, but Kevin seems forgotten about. The only thing we know is that he has built models with Jack as a kid, but he even threw them out when he died. It's really rather sad.  

  Reveal hidden contents

So, that sucks. I honestly thought 2005, which would have placed them at 25, but I guess it's even ten years before THAT. I think it sucks more because that means we get less Milo flashback scenes than what they could do with them at adult ages. I mean, the child actors are going to grow up soon and if this show goes on for more than three seasons, they'll have limited stories to really tell. I know it would be fifteen years worth of stories, but we won't see Jack lead the kids to adulthood. It just...it just really sucks. 

I'm enjoying the way the actor is playing Kevin,  I think he's doing such a great job.  

Randall as a young boy was adorable, but at the same time, it seems to me that so much more was given to him because he was adopted and his parents overcompensated for it.  I hope we see some balancing out of the relationships, but right now it looks like Randall got most of everything. 

And I'm not too worried about finding out exactly when Jack dies, I think it's enough right now to know that it greatly impacted his kids. I didn't see anything in the article that specified the exact date. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by cardigirl

[MsNewsradio]

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...would you cry about your deceased dad to someone you completely didn't know? 

*raises hand* Both myself and my sister have first hand experience with that, I'm sad to say. Grief is a jerk and rears its head at weird times.  

[CleoCaesar]

Probably my favorite episode so far. NO TOBY was awesome. It made Kate’s scenes actually interesting.

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The mom of Randall's African American can tone down the attitude a bit.  I understand what she is saying, but both Jack and Rebecca's initial interactions with her over a simple question, this episode and at the pool, were so off putting and negative. 

Right? It just made me roll my eyes. I really hope they keep her to a minimum, or tone down the rudeness and chip on her shoulder.

 

Quote

She ignores the babies in their cribs and is performing music (her old career). The kids play as she looks at the report card. She talks to Jack, not them about the ice cream. She and Jack talk about Randall's schooling - she does not speak to Randall about it. She is primping herself in the mirror while carelessly talking to Kate.

That’s really harsh and unfair. The babies were sleeping/relaxing in their cribs, so her playing some soft piano music for them to listen to was as much interaction that made sense. I don’t understand why kids playing while she looks over their report cards is a problem – did they all have to do it simultaneously? And she can’t get dressed without giving Kate 100% attention? Mothers are people and kids don’t need nonstop, constant attention 24/7. Not to mention she’s doing far MORE of the childraising – not just because Jack is an alcoholic (although…) but breastfeeding, being a stay at home mom, and doing all the nitty-gritty stuff of parenting. Jack is so clearly the “fun” parent.

 

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I very much like William, but he's sort of becoming this magical unicorn - he was a civil rights activist, a poet, a musician who played with some of the most famous musicians in the world, he's amazing with his granddaughters

I’m half expecting them to mention that he was instrumental in cancer research, wrote a best-selling novel that was adapted to the big screen, composed a symphony in his spare time, and regularly adopts rescue animals.

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I think the 80s was when (white) people started being overly sensitive - which often makes minorities feel uncomfortable (e.g. Yvette). 

So basically white people can’t win either way. Cool.

[Amethyst]

16 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I was just coming to ask why Randall didn't think it was a good idea.   William's going to die soon? He didn't want it to be his last memory of his bio dad?  He doesn't want to be that close to him after all?  Music was his parents thing and he doesn't want William to intrude? I couldn't figure it out,

I didn't get this, either.  I just chalked it up to William's impending demise and how it's getting harder and harder for Randall to accept that.

 

16 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

It does annoy me on TV shows when finances come up about say a private school, its always, "we'll figure it out".  What does that mean?  You are magically going to find thousands of extra dollars in your budget?  I know here it meant Jack took a promotion, but it didn't seem to be that big of a promotion to pay for private school

Ugh, this so much.  Nothing wrong with wanting what's best for your kid, but "we'll figure it out" in TV land usually means robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Even working overtime or doing a second job doesn't always pick up the slack.  I attended private school for a year and when they weren't inquiring about tuition, they were having "optional" fundraisers.  My parents were relieved when I switched to public school, because there was no way they could have afforded college after paying for private schooling.

Co-sign on the issues with Yvette.  I'm thinking we're supposed to see her as being the no-nonsense/tell it like it is type of person, but there's a fine line between no-nonsense and condescension, and she's veering pretty close to the latter.  It's harder to break through to people if you treat them like morons, because who wants to be talked down to?

I'm wondering if William's magical unicorn stuff (thanks, Biggie B!) is actually meant to be his character flaw.  Randall was expecting something entirely different when he met his biological father, someone a lot easier to mentally write off.  The reality; that William is friendly, compassionate, smart, and interesting is just going to make his death all the harder for Randall to bear.  Even his daughters adore him.  Who'd want to lose a man like that?  If William was an asshole, or just plain didn't care about the son he abandoned, his impending death wouldn't impact the same way.

 

11 hours ago, MsNewsradio said:

*raises hand* Both myself and my sister have first hand experience with that, I'm sad to say. Grief is a jerk and rears its head at weird times.

Same.  After my father died, I heard a speech that upset me so much, I ended up crying on a stranger's shoulder.  And this was years after he'd passed.  Bawling in front of a complete stranger was so embarrassing and it caught me out of nowhere.  Grief is always lurking in the background, and shows up whenever it wants to.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Amethyst

[DoubleUTeeEff]

7 hours ago, kili said:

Kate is very good at her job. I wonder how long it takes Toby to start complaining about all the time she spends working because planning that ball is going to take up even more of her time than she spent on her old job (where he got bitter when she spent an hour trying to find a hotel for Kevin).

I'm glad of the Friends references in this thread because I spent all episode anxious that Toby was going to show up at Kate's new workplace with a giant stuffed ladybug.

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

This is the 80's when kids were all tested and put in their tracks - below average, average, and GT. Everyone knew who was in what. There were no attempts to mainstream or come up with cute names for the reading and math groups in elementary school. I remember our reading groups were gold, silver, and bronze. Gee, lets crack that code.

LOL!  When I was in school kids were put in different groups with very generic names but EVERY KID knew exactly which group was the smart one and the dumb one.  It's impossible to keep that from kids.

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I'm glad of the Friends references in this thread because I spent all episode anxious that Toby was going to show up at Kate's new workplace with a giant stuffed ladybug.

LOL!  When I was in school kids were put in different groups with very generic names but EVERY KID knew exactly which group was the smart one and the dumb one.  It's impossible to keep that from kids.

Yep.  In Grade 1 reading (1985-1986), we had errr...the Transformers, the Care Bears (where I was) and the Book Worms.  Guess which one was the smart one and which one was dumb? 

[CleoCaesar]

Quote

This is the 80's when kids were all tested and put in their tracks - below average, average, and GT. Everyone knew who was in what. There were no attempts to mainstream or come up with cute names for the reading and math groups in elementary school. I remember our reading groups were gold, silver, and bronze. Gee, lets crack that code.

Whereas nowadays all kids are "smart" and "exceptional" and deserve trophies for nothing and all equally destined for one thing (college). Seems like the old system made sense on a fundamental level. Not all kids are equally intelligent. Quite a few aren't intelligent at all, in fact. But the PC charade is too powerful now.

[tennisgurl]

I just...I never want Jack to die! Not that he`s perfect or anything, but he is just such a loving dad who cares about is kids so much. I still have no idea when and how he died, but it kind of seems like it was awhile ago, and it was sudden. I`m not sure, but thats the vibe I have gotten. 

Ugggg Miguel. I know the guy hasn't done anything wrong in the flashbacks, and we dont know the story between him and Rebecca and how they got together, but its just...weird watching him be Jacks best friend, knowing he marries his wife after he`s in the ground. It just adds a weird layer to all their interactions, like Miguel is just hanging around waiting for his chance with Rebecca. Thats probably unfair to him, but its just weird to me.  

At least, a non Toby related Kate story! And it did have something to do with her weight, but it also showed how good she is at her job, and how confident she can be in her day to day life, and her relationship with Rebecca. I wonder if the estrangement between Rebecca and Kate is because of Kate's resentment of her pretty mom and her moms attempts to get her to lose weight, or how much is issues surrounding Jacks death and her moms new marriage.  

Holy second hand embarrassment Batman! Randall's performance was painful to watch! I was right there with Beth. Cover your eyes girls! Cover your eyes! 

[random chance]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

its just...weird watching him be Jacks best friend, knowing he marries his wife after he`s in the ground. It just adds a weird layer to all their interactions, like Miguel is just hanging around waiting for his chance with Rebecca. Thats probably unfair to him, but its just weird to me.

It reminds me of How I Met Your Mother, except in this one at least they aren't taunting us with a "mystery," they're telling us upfront that Ted and Robin wind up together (so to speak).

[tennisgurl]

11 minutes ago, random chance said:

t reminds me of How I Met Your Mother, except in this one at least they aren't taunting us with a "mystery," they're telling us upfront that Ted and Robin wind up together (so to speak).

Oh my God thats exactly what it feels like! Even thought it does not seem like the kids told Rebecca to go out and screw their uncle Miguel because she was secretly in love with him the whole time (screw you dead parent, you were just a place holder!) obviously! No wonder I find the whole situation gross!

[ChromaKelly]

27 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Yep.  In Grade 1 reading (1985-1986), we had errr...the Transformers, the Care Bears (where I was) and the Book Worms.  Guess which one was the smart one and which one was dumb? 

LOL! Yeah... my son's second grade class has Lions, Tigers, and Bears. They all know which is which. 

[kili]

Quote

That’s really harsh and unfair. The babies were sleeping/relaxing in their cribs, so her playing some soft piano music for them to listen to was as much interaction that made sense. I don’t understand why kids playing while she looks over their report cards is a problem – did they all have to do it simultaneously? And she can’t get dressed without giving Kate 100% attention? Mothers are people and kids don’t need nonstop, constant attention 24/7. Not to mention she’s doing far MORE of the childraising – not just because Jack is an alcoholic (although…) but breastfeeding, being a stay at home mom, and doing all the nitty-gritty stuff of parenting.

This isn't the Truman Show. We are only getting to see snippets of her life and the snippets they keep showing us is her not interacting with the children. That's defining her. If only one of those non-interactions were shown with a few interactions to balance  her portrayal, then the writers would be telling us that she is a normal Mom. When they primarily show us her in the room ignoring her children or having the conversations with others instead of the children, that says she's disconnected with the children.

Remember when she was tucking Kevin in and told him to be nice (during the Webster stuff) and there were lots of comments about how she is setting the bar low for him? She was not setting the bar low for him, she just had absolutely no interest in him. She was detached from the entire problem She didn't care to find out why he was doing what he was doing and strategize different solutions. She didn't care about finding out exactly what was going on. She just talked at him, giving him instructions and expecting it to be followed. Sure, she was tired. Sure, her husband was being a useless tool. Sure, Kevin should be better behaved. But he was 8. He was fixable at 8. He clearly is capable of empathy and has an ability to relate. Maybe if she had sat down with him for 5 minutes and gotten the scoop, treated him like his concerns mattered, explained why what he was doing was so bad, etc, etc, etc, Kevin and Randall would have had a better childhood.

It is possible that the Rebecca we are not shown is doing all of these things and is a wonderful mother, but the Rebecca we are being shown is going through the motions with a few moments of connection with Randall. Can Moms take a few minutes to play the piano, take a shower or say something they shouldn't Yes. If that's all they do and all the storytellers show us them doing, then that tells us something about the Mom.

[ChromaKelly]

27 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Whereas nowadays all kids are "smart" and "exceptional" and deserve trophies for nothing and all equally destined for one thing (college). Seems like the old system made sense on a fundamental level. Not all kids are equally intelligent. Quite a few aren't intelligent at all, in fact. But the PC charade is too powerful now.

No, that was the Millenials. That is not the case in school now. It's all about high stakes testing, rigorous standards, making kids learn material above what used to be their grade level.

1 hour ago, topanga said:

I'm a victim of the "public school to public school" experiments of the '80s. And let me tell you, it wasn't fun.

I was nowhere near as smart as Randall (I could never solve a Rubik's cube or figure out the number of 2 x 4s needed to build a wall), but at the end of 3rd grade, the teachers and principal at my inner-city school considered having me skip the 4th grade. But they and my mother were worried about the social implications of being a young 5th grader, so they decided to send me to a supposedly-more challenging school. i.e. an all-white school on the outskirts of my city (but still within the school district). The school wasn't more challenging, the teachers weren't smarter and didn't teach better than the teachers at my old school. But I left a situation with lots of friends and lots of people who looked at me, and in my new environment, I was one of only two black kids in the entire school (my brother was the other one). I was quiet and didn't make friends--the kids thought my brown skin looked strange and thought my frizzy hair was weird. Most of them had never seen a black person in the flesh. 

I'm glad Randall's experience in the private school turned out okay in the end (although I wonder what those years were like for him). 

Ugh. And there's still the myth that the whiter school is somehow a "better" school. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

[CleoCaesar]

Quote

No, that was the Millenials. That is not the case in school now. It's all about high stakes testing, rigorous standards, making kids learn material above what used to be their grade level.

Interesting. I'm an older Millennial so I well remember childhood in the 90s where it was ALL about "self-esteem", which turned out to be mostly ego-coddling and telling a less-than-bright child they were SO smart and giving nonstop compliments for nothing. It felt incredibly dumb and insulting to me even then. So much dumbing down, so much teaching to the lowest common denominator.

Kids know what's up. They know who the brainiacs are, who the cool kids are, who the dummies are. All that pointless coddling led more or less to nothing, except inflated egos, rampant entitlement, and a generation drowning in massive student loan debt (because everyone was pushed towards college, regardless of their goals, skills, interests, or actual aptitude).

I'm not a fan of nonstop standardized testing but if kids are being challenged and pushed to achieve at a high level, that's a refreshing change.

Edited November 2, 2016 by CleoCaesar

[PRgal]

11 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

LOL! Yeah... my son's second grade class has Lions, Tigers, and Bears. They all know which is which. 

The Transformers were mostly boys, too (the kids came up with the name themselves, of course).  

 

10 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

No, that was the Millenials. That is not the case in school now. It's all about high stakes testing, rigorous standards, making kids learn material above what used to be their grade level.

Ugh. And there's still the myth that the whiter school is somehow a "better" school. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

Yet in some cities, the specialized public schools with the most rigorous admissions standards are predominantly Asian (mostly STEM-focused schools if you want to get into stereotypes).   

Back to the show proper:  I feel very badly for Tess and Annie.  They're going to have to live with the fact that their dad is "totally uncool" for the rest of their lives at that school.  And maybe beyond...

[ChromaKelly]

9 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Interesting. I'm an older Millennial so I well remember childhood in the 90s where it was ALL about "self-esteem", which turned out to be mostly ego-coddling and telling a less-than-bright child they were SO smart and giving nonstop compliments for nothing. It felt incredibly dumb and insulting to me even then. So much dumbing down, so much teaching to the lowest common denominator.

Kids know what's up. They know who the brainiacs are, who the cool kids are, who the dummies are. All that pointless coddling led more or less to nothing, except inflated egos, rampant entitlement, and a generation drowning in massive student loan debt (because everyone was pushed towards college, regardless of their goals, skills, interests, or actual aptitude).

I'm not a fan of nonstop standardized testing but if kids are being challenged and pushed to achieve at a high level, that's a refreshing change.

It's grueling. It's making kids that hate school.

[luvly]

Yvette can have a bit of an attitude but I saw it from another angle. She played the beginning of the conversation completely straight until Jack starts using negative words to describe the situation ("uproot", "send him to", "take him away from"). Then she's concerned and asks if it's a boarding school and he replies that it's just a private school with "little white kids marching around like it's Nazi Germany." That's when she gets an attitude because his language shows that he's obviously against it and seems to want her to validate his stance based on the idea that Randall shouldn't have to stand out even more. Meanwhile, she knows that those kind of opportunities don't always come along for black kids and he should consider it. FWIW, that scene seemed choppy to me so I wouldn't be surprised if the tone was originally a little different.

I think I see where the Kate/Jack/Superbowl confusion comes from. I looked up the transcript and she says, "Okay. So, growing up, I used to watch the Steelers with my dad. Right? Every single Sunday, until I grew up and...I moved out here and I just got out of the habit. It wasn't until the 2006 AFC Championship when they played the Broncos. Do you remember? (No.) Okay. Anyway, I wanted to watch 'em with my dad. And I did. And they won. And then they won the Super Bowl. And I just... It's just-just what I do now. I watch the Steelers, and I watch 'em with my dad."

During the first "..." she looks down and away and then starts the new sentence with, "I moved out here--". As acted, I think it read as a small pause, then picking up the sentence again as opposed to a small pause that drops/avoids the end of a sentence (in this case, saying that he died) and then starting a new sentence. Anyway, the reason the 2005-06 AFC Championship was so important for the Steelers is, in part, because of their performance the previous year. They were 15-1, which broke their personal team record and made them one of only four teams to have a record that high, but lost the AFC game to the Patriots after a 14 game winning streak and thus, didn't go to the Super Bowl. The next year, they were the 6th seeded team (wildcard) for the playoffs and beat the Bengals and Colts to go up against the Broncos in the AFC game, which they won. That sent them to the Super Bowl against the Seahawks and they won that too, making them the first 6th-seeded team to win the SB and marked the first time the Steelers won the SB since the 1979-80 season, when Kevin & Kate were conceived.  Long story short: she was conceived during the '80 Steelers SB win, stopped watching football after her dad died and the Steelers stopped winning. When she decided to watch "with him" for the '06 AFC game, they won and then went on to win the SB, so now she watches games with him out of superstition/tradition.

Edited November 2, 2016 by luvly

[twoods]

9 minutes ago, PRgal said:

 

Yet in some cities, the specialized public schools with the most rigorous admissions standards are predominantly Asian (mostly STEM-focused schools if you want to get into stereotypes).   

Yep all the top ranked schools here with the best scores have a high percentage of Asians, hence why they buy homes in the area to get the best (and free) education. There are more magnet schools now that also are free, however no idea how many there were in the 80's. Maybe the public school that Randall was  at didn't have GATE, and skipping a grade would have made him feel more different. I could see parents wanting what was best for their kid, no matter the cost. 

[buckboard]

I didn't get why Randall had so much difficulty explaining his job.  I couldn't have told you what a commodities weather forecaster was before last night, but between what Randall said and a quick Google, it seems fairly simple to explain.

Sometimes the food we buy at the supermarket costs more than it usually does.  Farmers and people who sell the oranges, avocados, milk, etc. (and the people who buy the produce), need to know how the prices will be affected by the weather.  A hurricane or drought or extremely hot weather could have a big impact on the price the orange juice you buy at the store will cost and Randall helps the buyers and sellers forecast the prices.  

Also, didn't Randall say he'd spoken to their class before about his job?  Did they give him feedback on whether they understood what he said then?

[ShadowFacts]

27 minutes ago, kili said:

It is possible that the Rebecca we are not shown is doing all of these things and is a wonderful mother, but the Rebecca we are being shown is going through the motions with a few moments of connection with Randall. Can Moms take a few minutes to play the piano, take a shower or say something they shouldn't Yes. If that's all they do and all the storytellers show us them doing, then that tells us something about the Mom.

The way I see it, the writers are taking pains to show Rebecca as more detached, and Jack as more hands-on and nurturing.  He is more clued into the kids' feelings than she is.  It doesn't mean she is a terrible mother, but they have to set up some sort of distinction with their parenting styles.  We'll probably find out more about how the two of them grew up, which will shed light on how they in turn treat their children.

2 hours ago, Amy88888 said:

I thought this at first too, but then she said she's basically not going to be the one they can blame for keeping Randall out of private school. I think Jack was just looking for her (as a black woman) to say keeping him out was the right thing to do, and there you go, easy resolution. But she refused to be that excuse, and Randall went to the school that was recommended for him.

Or he maybe straight up wanted her opinion, and she gave it.  Either way, I didn't see him reacting negatively to what she said or how she said it.  He in fact listened to her and has Randall as his top priority.  I didn't think her scene was that controversial.  But I seem to be in the minority in that she does not get my hackles up, I like her. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 hours ago, kili said:

Kate is very good at her job. I wonder how long it takes Toby to start complaining about all the time she spends working because planning that ball is going to take up even more of her time than she spent on her old job (where he got bitter when she spent an hour trying to find a hotel for Kevin).

100% I have to quote this because I love this post.

I remember in some Sex and the City forum I went on a RANT because I had been rewatching Season (3 I think?) and Steve was pissing me off so much and acting like a petulant brat and not respecting Miranda's own time or job and I got this flutter of replies that agreed.  That was a lot of fun.  I was really raging about Steve.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[mojito]

Quote

II do feel bad for Kevin, who still is the odd one out. Jack and Rebecca both have such complicated relationships with Kate and Randall, but Kevin seems forgotten about. The only thing we know is that he has built models with Jack as a kid, but he even threw them out when he died. It's really rather sad.  

I wonder about the veracity of the point of view depicted on this show.  Is it completely objective or are some of the flashbacks from the point of view of Kevin, Kate, and Randall and we're looking at distorted memories. For instance, Kevin's drowning. Is what we saw merely how Kevin remembered it? Will this show begin showing conflicting viewpoints of the same incident?  What if we learn that he's spent his whole life drawing attention from the other two but never feeling that he got enough? Are we purposely being led to incorrect conclusions? I'm beginning to suspect that we are.

Just throwing that out there. 

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

We have seen Kate, Kevin and Rebecca all have mementos of Jack.  Kate has his ashes.  Kevin and Rebecca both have necklaces.  Wonder what randall has?

I'm thinking his ties. They made a lot of those moments, so it seems like Jack's ties would be special for Randall.

9 hours ago, PRgal said:

Maybe a midlife crisis starts when you "feel old"/start not recognizing celebrities on covers of entertainment magazines?  I've been feeling that way for the past five or so years.  I'm 37.

In my experience, being of a somewhat older set, it seems like it strikes (for the people I've known) at about the point when you realize it's too late and/or too complicated, and you have too many responsibilities to start over again and do those things you've been telling yourself you'd eventually make time for. Some things you can still manage, but other things are not an option any more. Some address it by defiance (buying the new cars, screwing the hot young thing), some by sadness. Some accept and move forward to do the things they can do, some struggle for a long time.

4 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I honestly believe that gifted kids (like mine, who go to public school) will do great wherever they go, and their good grades and high test scores will get them into elite postsecondary programs.

I think that's probably true, and my kids went through public school gifted programs and got into good colleges, however in this case Randall was deliberately hanging back because he didn't want to be better than his siblings. Moving him to a different school made sense. It may be convenient plot wise to have Randall tank because he wants to be the same as his siblings, but it also depicts a very real dynamic in some families (speaking from my own experience with a different emotional context, but similar dynamic).

[chitowngirl]

I thought it was wise of Randall to get someone else to be his music teacher. No matter how good the parent is, it is very hard to teach your own.

[pianogirl73]

When little Randall said he was pretending not to know math so he wouldn't get an A because if he did get en A then he would get to eat ice cream every day and Kevin and Kate would hate him was the first time this show made me cry. 

[Tiger]

I'm two years younger than the big three, and gifted in math like Randall.  I was very lucky that my elementary school had a gifted program within the school.  Every grade had one "gifted" class.  

For junior high, my elementary principal was pushing my parents to send me to his snotty prep academy.  But lucikly for me, my parents balked and instead worked out with the district that I would go to the high school for math before school and then with my peers for everything else.  Then in High School, I did math at a local University.

The point being, I wish tv would once do 'gifted in one area/subject' instead of just 'generally gifted'. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Tiger

[izabella]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

The way I see it, the writers are taking pains to show Rebecca as more detached, and Jack as more hands-on and nurturing.  He is more clued into the kids' feelings than she is.  It doesn't mean she is a terrible mother, but they have to set up some sort of distinction with their parenting styles.  We'll probably find out more about how the two of them grew up, which will shed light on how they in turn treat their children.

I think the writers are also showing Rebecca to be more detached because she wasn't eager to have kids, certainly not as eager as Jack was.  I'm not convinced she totally and enthusiastically changed her mind about that during the course of one football game. 

[JoannKB]

How long was Kate working for Jami Gertz before she left her daughter on the side of the road? Because that seems crazy that she would not get fired for that. Not only did she not get fired, but the boss instantly took Kate's side, apologized to her, and then gave her almost everything she asked for and begged her not to quit. That's bonkers. Even if Jami Gertz knows her daughter's a jerk, she barely knows Kate. We, as the audience, know that Kate is a good person and we see all of the underlying issues going into it, but there's no way for Jami Gertz to know that Kate is a saint and not a psycho who left a teenage girl by the side of the road with no ride home when one of her job duties was to drive the girl around, as had been explicitly stated during the interview.

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, JoannKB said:

How long was Kate working for Jami Gertz before she left her daughter on the side of the road? Because that seems crazy that she would not get fired for that. Not only did she not get fired, but the boss instantly took Kate's side, apologized to her, and then gave her almost everything she asked for and begged her not to quit. That's bonkers. Even if Jami Gertz knows her daughter's a jerk, she barely knows Kate. We, as the audience, know that Kate is a good person and we see all of the underlying issues going into it, but there's no way for Jami Gertz to know that Kate is a saint and not a psycho who left a teenage girl by the side of the road with no ride home when one of her job duties was to drive the girl around, as had been explicitly stated during the interview.

Jaimes character has said she has left her on the side of the road before and I am 100% certain that an affluent LA teen has an Uber account so she wasn't stranded. 

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, buckboard said:

I didn't get why Randall had so much difficulty explaining his job.  I couldn't have told you what a commodities weather forecaster was before last night, but between what Randall said and a quick Google, it seems fairly simple to explain.

Sometimes the food we buy at the supermarket costs more than it usually does.  Farmers and people who sell the oranges, avocados, milk, etc. (and the people who buy the produce), need to know how the prices will be affected by the weather.  A hurricane or drought or extremely hot weather could have a big impact on the price the orange juice you buy at the store will cost and Randall helps the buyers and sellers forecast the prices.  

I think Randall is a commodities trader, though, isn't he? He basically sells shares on betting whether the prices will go up or down, making money in the stock market, not actually helping farmers price their goods, despite what he sang about farmers needing to know the future prices of cooooorn. I don't know, maybe I'm mistaken, but I think with an office/house/expensive car like that, he's definitely a trader not just helping out the farmers.

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

The way I see it, the writers are taking pains to show Rebecca as more detached, and Jack as more hands-on and nurturing. 

Although the show has several female writers, and I would imagine a heavily female audience, it seems to me that it has a very male point of view. Mom is the order-obsessed bitch while Dad, though troubled, is loving and a dreamer. (Mom's dreams receive subtle critiques throughout.) She gets props only when she goes along with her husband and shows how much she loves him even when he has let her down.

Female children's issues stem from conflicts centered on appearance issues. Male children have daddy issues (Randall loved Jack but pined for an authentic black father.)

How many times do we see big, boisterous men on television easily dating or marrying slim, attractive women who are obviously smarter and more capable than they. I think the writers believe Toby is a great, Kevin James sort of guy and that Kate should be grateful he's interested in her overweight self.

[kili]

Quote

We, as the audience, know that Kate is a good person and we see all of the underlying issues going into it, but there's no way for Jami Gertz to know that Kate is a saint and not a psycho who left a teenage girl by the side of the road with no ride home when one of her job duties was to drive the girl around, as had been explicitly stated during the interview.

She's a teenager. She appears to have been left on a residential street. The walk will do her good.

If Jami's character suspects Kate might be a psycho, maybe she should have waited to find out for sure before letting Kate drive her daughter around in a car. In the car with a psycho is worse than being set out on the side of the road in a nice neighborhood by a psycho.

The kid could have just given Kate Ashley's address and then she would have been dropped off by then. But no, she decided to torment her mother's vulnerable new employee (vulnerable because she is a new employee still sounding out the situation - most new employees would have put up with that abuse). She insulted Kate, implied she might get fired and was generally pretty awful. If my teenager treated an employee of mine like that, I'd be apologizing too. And so would my kid.

Edited November 3, 2016 by kili

[possibilities]

I finally liked Kate this week!

Kevin thinking "it's not his job" was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Also, that he never thought about how to access emotion is pretty crazy. I realize The Manny wasn't asking him to plumb the depths, but c'mon!

I found Randall's song endearing. If he had been willing to do it with self-deprecation and some hammy humor, he could have been a hit-- cut through the stuffiness and the audience comes alive. He didn't really think he sounded good, did he? Because that would have been delusional. But the idea of the song was a good one, and performing it when you're crappy could have been fun.

I'm not irritated by Miguel. I don't know enough to have a problem with him yet. It could be that he swooped in on a grieving Rebecca, but it's also possible that there was a big gap between when Jack died and Miguel and Rebecca got together. We just don't know.

When my best friend was dying, she made me promise to help her husband after she was gone. We didn't get romantically involved, but we did develop a closeness that I had not had with him before his wife's/my BFF's death. And we don't know what happened to Miguel's first wife, or his kids, yet either. If it was a workplace accident that killed Jack, Miguel may have felt responsible in some way (not that he caused it, but the whole survivor/proximity thing), and that could explain why Randall resents him. But we don't know yet, and so far I like the guy.

[OtterMommy]

Well, I pretty much loved that episode.  Jack was a great dad, I related a bit too much to the Rebecca/Kate stuff, I adored grown up Kate having the gumption to go for that job and then standing up to the spoiled daughter.  I probably could have lived without Randall's song, but whatevs.  

What I didn't like? The actress...I can't be bothered to learn her name.  Crashing a funeral is just bad form.  Is it really worth it to your "art" to exploit other people's grief?  And even though Kevin can be self-absorbed, that was clearly something he would never do and she put him in an impossible position.  Also, I got distracted by a phone call, but did they have sex in the widow's house?  Really?  I mean, REALLY?  How is that even remotely okay?  And then when actress girl declared that they would never have sex again, it left me wondering if she is just a bitch or if she was prostituting herself?  Either way, it didn't endear her to me.

I just realized there was absolutely no Toby in this episode...and I didn't miss him.

Edited November 3, 2016 by OtterMommy
Typo

[ShadowFacts]

22 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Well, I pretty much loved that episode.  Jack was a great dad, I related a bit too much to the Rebecca/Kate stuff, I adored grown up Kate having the gumption to go for that job and then standing up to the spoiled daughter.  I probably could have lived without Randall's song, but whatevs.  

What I didn't like? The actress...I can't be bothered to learn her name.  Crashing a funeral is just bad form.  Is it really worth it to your "art" to exploit other people's grief?  And even though Kevin can be self-absorbed, that was clearly something he would never do and she put him in an impossible position.  Also, I got distracted by a phone call, but they have sex in the widow's house?  Really?  I mean, REALLY?  How is that even remotely okay?  And then when actress girl declared that they would never have sex again, it left me wondering if she is just a bitch or if she was prostituting herself?  Either way, it didn't endear her to me.

I just realized there was absolutely no Toby in this episode...and I didn't miss him.

Disrespectful, tacky arrogance.  It is one of my pet peeves when shows go out of their way to try to be edgy or naughty.  I don't think the actress cares about art, or helping Kevin, so much as having her play not bomb. 

[Diana Berry]

8 hours ago, MsNewsradio said:

*raises hand* Both myself and my sister have first hand experience with that, I'm sad to say. Grief is a jerk and rears its head at weird times.  

Absolutely

[srpturtle80]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

You're a transpondster!

 

That's not even a word!!!  LOL, sorry I had too. Friends is the love of my life.

Anyway, on topic. I have yet to cry at this show, but I definitely came the closest during the scene with Jack and Randall at his office. My eyes were burning and everything. Young Randall is just adorable.

I also loved the scene between the widow (who, ironically, was also in Friends as the instructor for the Introduction to Cooking class that Monica and Joey took, haha) and Kevin. That was really sweet and sad.

Didn't miss Toby at all! 

Edited November 3, 2016 by srpturtle80

[Eeksquire]

Quote

The way I see it, the writers are taking pains to show Rebecca as more detached, and Jack as more hands-on and nurturing.  He is more clued into the kids' feelings than she is.  It doesn't mean she is a terrible mother, but they have to set up some sort of distinction with their parenting styles.

I am reading this a little differently - I am about the same age as the Big Three and I think there is some truth to the way that the parenting styles are being portrayed for the time period (at least in my experience and in the Northeast).  Fathers were becoming more involved with the kids in the early 80's, but - even in families where the mothers worked outside the home - they weren't really doing the heavy lifting of day to day parenting, even if they were doing more cub scouts and coaching teams and building rockets and taking kids to the office occasionally.  Dads weren't doing laundry, making meals, grocery shopping, managing report cards, etc.

I think there's also a distinction to be made time period wise - at least in the early 80s, parenting was not the competitive sport that it's turned into now.  It wouldn't be unusual to let kids do their own thing and work things out as best they could.  It didn't strike me at all unusual that Rebecca didn't probe into the "Webster" comments and spend a lot of time in discussions with Kevin as to why it was so wrong and so hurtful to Randall.  At the time, there simply wasn't the zeitgeist there is now to avoid/prevent bullying at all costs - it was just part of life that you had to learn to deal with (though you did have to knock it off when it came to your siblings, at least in the hearing of your parents).  

[OptimisticCynic]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Well, I pretty much loved that episode.  Jack was a great dad, I related a bit too much to the Rebecca/Kate stuff, I adored grown up Kate having the gumption to go for that job and then standing up to the spoiled daughter.  I probably could have lived without Randall's song, but whatevs.  

What I didn't like? The actress...I can't be bothered to learn her name.  Crashing a funeral is just bad form.  Is it really worth it to your "art" to exploit other people's grief?  And even though Kevin can be self-absorbed, that was clearly something he would never do and she put him in an impossible position.  Also, I got distracted by a phone call, but did they have sex in the widow's house?  Really?  I mean, REALLY?  How is that even remotely okay?  And then when actress girl declared that they would never have sex again, it left me wondering if she is just a bitch or if she was prostituting herself?  Either way, it didn't endear her to me.

I just realized there was absolutely no Toby in this episode...and I didn't miss him.

I agree completely about Olivia. And she came off quite full of herself that she was so amazing at sex that never having it again was akin to the grief over losing the love of your life.

There is so much wrong with exploiting someone else's grief for a stupid acting exercise. What will piss me off even more if this manipulation ends up "working" in the show universe.