Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[random chance]

I would forever boycott any celebrity who showed up at his gloat fest.

[galaxygirl76]

5 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I wonder if there is any truth to the SNL Weekend Update bit that America's Got Talent 2010 runner up is going to be singing the National Anthem at the inauguration. I did Google and can't find any sources I'd consider reputable.

I read something about that, it's a teen aged girl I believe.

[Padma]

4 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I read something about that, it's a teen aged girl I believe.

It's Jackie Evancho who has also performed for Obama. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/americas-got-talent-star-jackie-evancho-to-sing-at-donald-trumps-inauguration/

There's some interest in her performance because her sister Juliet is transgender and we all know the Pence et al crowd.

[candall]

57 minutes ago, Padma said:

There's some interest in her performance because her sister Juliet is transgender and we all know the Pence et al crowd.

Well that's interesting.  Jackie, sweetheart, anyone at your house bother paying attention to politics?  Are these really the people whose legitimacy you want your beautiful voice to cloak with the national anthem?

 

1 hour ago, KIMBERLYANN11 said:

just kids with a whole lot of integrity. And these kids live for trips. 

 I thought that was your daughter, KA11--please extend my compliments.

Edited December 19, 2016 by candall
spelling. Don't want to be like the new President!

[hoosier80]

I watched the documentary mentioned earlier, and while interesting, just confirmed what I've known about Twitler.  He's out for the quick buck.  He has no moral compass.  It's all about him 24/7.  Look how great I am, I only do the greatest things, praise me.  If you don't praise everything I do, you are an idiot.  

I still think he's in bed with the Russians because he owes them millions if not billions.  That film showed that he kept getting more and more and more in debt, when any sane person or real businessman would say, oh I need to cut my losses and stop it.  As he said, it's a game.  I think partially, he's still that kid who was somewhat well to do, but not in the very elite old money crowd.  He so wants to be in that crowd, but he lacks the social skills to ever be part of it.  If he were that charming or had worked at it, maybe as the ladies said donating or helping with charity events instead of being a gaudy, brash showman, he might have gained entry, at least on the perimeter.  He's nouveau riche (if he still has any money), has no class or tact.  Old money doesn't have to constantly prove themselves and are more subdued in how they dress, where they live.   It's not a constant ooh look at what I'm wearing, driving, have, etc.  They have always had it, so no need to prove it.  In working in the service industry years ago, I had several clients who were 'old money', at least for this area.  I'd show them some product, and at first, I'd get 'oh no dear, that will not do, too much' as in too flashy, too gauche.  I caught on rather quickly.  Good quality, nothing that will go out of style quickly, nothing trendy, classic.  They do not feel nor want to advertise "look I've got oodles of money".  It simply isn't done.  

For Twitler, that is all he does.  Look at me.  I've got so much money, I'm the smartest, etc.  And it's telling that he needs those rallies.  He has to have constant admiration.  It's why he won't do press conferences.  He cannot take any criticism.  You almost want to ask, who did this to you?  And he knows what to do to try to charm his way into certain crowds, but I don't think he's ever gotten into the super elite circles he so wants to be part of really.  He's got all the hangers on and new money crowd; he wouldn't be caught dead with many of the people at his rallies in a real social event.  He just tolerates them because they are feeding his ego.  He's also going to try and put everyone in their place who has ever said a negative word about him.  

In the documentary, his facial expression was interesting when the NJ Gaming Commission turned him down - finally.  He was trying to hide it, but he was not a happy camper.  It was almost like you could see the wheels spinning on how he was going to try something else or get even somehow.  It was telling that those who really worked or crossed paths with him did not have very good things to say about him.  Also interesting was how the press turned a blind eye to any negative stories about him, until the press could no longer avoid printing the cheating with Marla - then it was a horse race to see who could get the most information.   The press did the same thing early in the campaign and then tried to come back later, but it was too little, too late. 

I also noticed that he had a better vocabulary, spoke better, and seemed to act more appropriately.   Were the antics on the campaign merely antics or are we seeing some sort of diminished capacity?  Is it old age and he doesn't give a shit what he says now?  Or did he really not want to win?  Were the antics his way of trying to get out of being President, maybe being forced by the Russians to run as payment for his outstanding debt?  I think he'd really be happier playing golf and continuing his conman ways in business or still appearing on the Apprentice.   

He has really put on a lot of weight, too.  No orange skin, but the hair was starting to be bad, not as bad as now, but in some angles, the hair was very unkempt.  Yuck.  

I am hoping that Obama is waiting for some sort of kill shot.  Something so indisputable that it cannot be swept away with tweets or his subordinates; something that even the Repubs will agree with makes Twitler ineligible to be President.

Joe Biden was at John Glenn's funeral yesterday.  It was broadcast locally.  As I was watching, I was like oh shit, he should've ran for President.  Loved Hillary, but Joe has the personal, human touch.  I think he could have won over the rustbelt.  Now, we're stuck with Twitler (unless Obama has something - go Obama).

Edited December 19, 2016 by hoosier80
spelling is important

[Zuzubee]

I can't say this as a fact, but I'm guessing the rest of the world is laughing at us. Kind of like ... stupid Americans, electing a buffoon reality star. Am so embarrassed. Similar to the way I felt when W was reelected. 

Didn't always agree with all that President Obama did these last 8 years bit at least I could hold my head up and knew we had an intelligent, classy person as our leader. Thereby representing that we are an intelligent, classy nation.

Sad we are no longer seen as such. We are the epitome of the stupid, ugly American to the world. Woe is me, we are all judged by our leader ...

[shok]

3 hours ago, Padma said:

That may be generally true.  But at this time of year, Trump's podium in Alabama with its big "Merry Christmas" sign had a real "white Christian supremacist" feeling to it for me.  We are not a "Christian country" and the president (elect) embracing the idea that we are was like a giant "F-U" on his "unity tour" (if by "unity" you mean, as he does, "those who want to join our movement". The rest of the country? Yep, a giant "F-U" to them all.)

Tsk, you haven't been reading your alt-right sites lately and you're behind in the news. Didn't you know that President Elect Orange Buffoon has already repealed the law Obama passed banning the use of Merry Christmas?

It's true! Obama outlawed it but now finally all the RWNJs can say it again. Just another example of Donald making America great again.

[Pixel]

As an atheist, I've never had a problem with someone saying Merry Christmas to me, and returning the greeting. Until now. 

I thought W was a little dumb, but I was never embarrassed by him. I am profoundly embarrassed that this country is full of enough people willing to put that barely sentient orange turd in power. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Pixel

[NewDigs]

Bloomberg reports :

'As Trump Tweets, China Quietly Weighs Options to Retaliate

“China has so far practiced restraint at Trump’s provocations as he’s yet to enter the White House,” the Global Times said. “But this attitude won’t last too long after he officially becomes the U.S. president, were he still to treat China in the manner he tweeted today.”'

Good thing Tubby told them they could have that drone!

Meanwhile, over on Fox they attempt to make their viewers concerned that Trump might not win!

'Trump almost certain to win Electoral College vote, but nothing's sure in 2016 elections

The Electoral College is expected Monday to select Donald Trump as the next president of the United States, despite efforts to disrupt the 227-year-old process that so far appears to have resulted in just one openly rogue voter. Still, Democrats and Republicans on Sunday spoke with some uncertainty about the anticipated outcome."

FOX viewers now have even more to be both upset and happy with their new overlord. 

Nice way to manipulate. ::eyeroll::

[Lunata]

56 minutes ago, hoosier80 said:

For Twitler, that is all he does.  Look at me.  I've got so much money, I'm the smartest, etc.  And it's telling that he needs those rallies.  He has to have constant admiration.  It's why he won't do press conferences.  He cannot take any criticism.  You almost want to ask, who did this to you?  And he knows what to do to try to charm his way into certain crowds, but I don't think he's ever gotten into the super elite circles he so wants to be part of really.  He's got all the hangers on and new money crowd; he wouldn't be caught dead with many of the people at his rallies in a real social event.  He just tolerates them because they are feeding his ego.  He's also going to try and put everyone in their place who has ever said a negative word about him.  Joe Biden was at John Glenn's funeral yesterday.  It was broadcast locally.  As I was watching, I was like oh shit, he should've ran for President.  Loved Hillary, but Joe has the personal, human touch.  I think he could have won over the rustbelt.  Now, we're stuck with Twitler (unless Obama has something - go Obama).

I was disappointed that Joe Biden didn't enter the race, he would have given Bernie Sanders a good fight for the Democratic nomination but it was all set up for Hillary Clinton years ago. It was supposed to be 'her turn' and she messed up, she just didn't understand how vital it was to reach the people in those States that went red instead of blue for the first time in decades. "Never count your chickens, etc...." But ultimately I think Joe Biden made the right decision. not for the country but for himself.

There's a wise saying attributed to poet and author James Baldwin. "The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose and therefore nothing to fear." This is Donald Trump, he has nothing to lose, not really. If he somehow never finishes his term due to impeachment or for other reasons, he will have lost absolutely nothing and will quickly move on to the next thing that feeds his ego and narcissism.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, Padma said:

It's Jackie Evancho who has also performed for Obama. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/americas-got-talent-star-jackie-evancho-to-sing-at-donald-trumps-inauguration/

There's some interest in her performance because her sister Juliet is transgender and we all know the Pence et al crowd.

I am baffled how Jackie Evancho, or her parents, could have agreed to her appearance at the Inauguration.   How do you participate in a celebration for people who are determined to strip a family member (and countless others like her) of all hopes of equal rights?  People who can't wait to turn back the clock on the LGBT community?  

[Avocado]

1 hour ago, Zuzubee said:

I can't say this as a fact, but I'm guessing the rest of the world is laughing at us. Kind of like ... stupid Americans, electing a buffoon reality star. Am so embarrassed. Similar to the way I felt when W was reelected. 

Didn't always agree with all that President Obama did these last 8 years bit at least I could hold my head up and knew we had an intelligent, classy person as our leader. Thereby representing that we are an intelligent, classy nation.

Sad we are no longer seen as such. We are the epitome of the stupid, ugly American to the world. Woe is me, we are all judged by our leader ...

I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I can tell you Canadians aren't laughing -- we're horrified and scared along with you. That also seems to be the sentiment among my various international friends. Nobody thinks this is funny.

The one exception: a young Russian woman who I met traveling a couple years ago. After the election, she posted something on Facebook like "Yay, Donald Trump is POTUS! Maybe Russia and the USA can finally become friends again!" From what I knew of her (we traveled together for 2+ weeks) she was very smart, educated, and progressive. I think the Russian media sold them a bill of goods.

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, Zuzubee said:

I can't say this as a fact, but I'm guessing the rest of the world is laughing at us. Kind of like ... stupid Americans, electing a buffoon reality star. Am so embarrassed.

We've successfully wrested the award for "World's Stupidest Election Results" away from Great Britain, following their win for the Brexit vote.

[backformore]

1 hour ago, hoosier80 said:

I still think he's in bed with the Russians because he owes them millions if not billions.  That film showed that he kept getting more and more and more in debt, when any sane person or real businessman would say, oh I need to cut my losses and stop it.  As he said, it's a game.  I think partially, he's still that kid who was somewhat well to do, but not in the very elite old money crowd.

Yes, Trump owes Russian banks money. I think Trump is being manipulated by Russia to make certain decisions.  Trump measures everything by money, the two things motivating him are money and power.  He wants a guy for secretary of state that is very close to Putin.   The SNL skit hit close to the truth.  During the debate, Hillary said something about Trump being a puppet - that was what set off the famous "You're the puppet"  reply from him.   I think that even back then, Hillary was onto something.

[Lunata]

9 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

One theory I've seen about President Obama's response is that he has to wait until he has a "kill shot" so to speak.  He has to make sure that he has verifiable backup for making any allegations towards the incoming POTUS, no matter how much of an asshat that incoming POTUS is.  So, it's possible that he's sitting back and waiting until he knows he has all those ducks in a row before he says something definitive.  Part of the problem with that is that he needs to find the best way to do this without compromising intelligence assets, or, at minimum, giving a chance for those who would unavoidably be compromised to be safe first.  It would feel great for all of us to see him up there railing on Trump and company about this egregious violation of our electoral process.  However, he has to be above reacting on emotion (unlike Twitler).  He has made it clear that he has evidence to support his belief that Putin interfered in our election.  He has stated that it needs to be fully investigated to determine how far this plot has gone, and who is involved.  That's what he's supposed to do at this point in time, as much as it might make us all feel better to see more.  

I don't know why everyone took President Obama so literally when he said that he told Putin to "cut it out". Listen, this is a man that's a prolific, eloquent speaker. He's a protagonist that uses measured and well thought-out words. He's not histrionic as Trump is and says whatever is on his mind without careful thought first. I would bet my left foot that what he conveyed to Vladimir Putin was far more intense than 'cut it out' and to take this literally and make a big deal out of it is a big mistake. Whatever the U.S. plans in regard to retaliation isn't something that the President is going to stand up to a microphone and announce to the world. The U.S., Russia, China, Israel and many other countries have carried on cyber hacking for years. This is the first time someone dared interfere with the democratic process of the election taking place in a world power. That crossed the line. Putin has done it many times before in Europe, but the US is a no-no. The United States will surely extract it's revenge, have no doubt. And, we'll all probably never really know what that is.

[backformore]

2013, in an interview, Trump answers "do you have a relationship with Vladimir Putin?"  with "I do have a relationship.  he's very interested in what we're dong here.  He's probably very interested in what you and I are saying today, and I'm sure he's going to be seeing it.  But yes, I do have a relationship with him."

2016 - "I have nothing to do with Putin, I've never spoken to him, I don't know anything about him."

did he forget a previous friendship with a world leader?  or is he lying to cover up some illegal and/or unethical act?

[shok]

Joy Reid had a segment about the Merry Christmas nonsense this morning. (Lord I'm going to miss him and Michelle. Sob.)

http://www.msnbc.com/am-joy/watch/-merry-christmas-never-left-the-white-house-824078915806

[Lunata]

5 minutes ago, shok said:

Joy Reid had a segment about the Merry Christmas nonsense this morning. (Lord I'm going to miss him and Michelle. Sob.)

http://www.msnbc.com/am-joy/watch/-merry-christmas-never-left-the-white-house-824078915806

[backformore]

Adding one more video of Trump in 2014 saying he spoke "directly and indirectly"  to president Putin "Who could not have been nicer". then blah-blah blah about how "we had a tremendous success there." (talking about the miss universe pageant).  Trump brags about talking to Putin

so, 2013 and 2014, before running for president, he had talked to Putin, knew him well, great relationship.  2016 never met, never talked to , knows nothing about him.

Edited December 19, 2016 by backformore

[shok]

2 hours ago, backformore said:

Adding one more video or Trump in 2014 saying he spoke "directly and indirectly"  to president Putin "Who could not have been nicer". then blah-blah blah about how "we had a tremendous success there." (talking about the miss universe pageant).  Trump brags about talking to Putin

so, 2013 and 2014, before running for president, he had talked to Putin, knew him well, great relationship.  2016 never met, never talked to , knows nothing about him.

Didn't he also babble some gibberish a while back about getting to know him when they were both featured on 60 Minutes one night and spent time together in the green room? Some quick investigation discovered it was a complete lie since Putin had been interviewed in Russia and the orange buffoon in New York. The lies just flow so effortlessly from him. Well, not effortlessly, because he struggles to complete a sentence with the fluency of a Grade 5 kid, but you know what I mean.

[KIMBERLYANN11]

7 hours ago, Pixel said:

As an atheist, I've never had a problem with someone saying Merry Christmas to me, and returning the greeting. Until now. 

I thought W was a little dumb, but I was never embarrassed by him. I am profoundly embarrassed that this country is full of enough people willing to put that barely sentient orange turd in power. 

I've never had a problem with Merry Christmas either, but I have noticed like some others here, a mean tone to it this year - like daring someone to say something different. I took DD out for brunch Saturday and the waitress, who was a cute little thing about DDs age, must have said it five times.  When we paid the bill, she said it again and added "Aren't you excited?".  Weird.  Excited about what? Christmas?  They have it every year. It seemed like she was making it her goal to say it as many times as possible or until people repeated it back. I just said yeah, you too.

FWIW, she was an awesome waitress in all other ways so she got a good tip.  She was cheerful and spent a lot of time going over the coffee bar offerings with DD.  Maybe she was just excited because she was expecting a good gift.

[Jediknight]

21 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

One theory I've seen about President Obama's response is that he has to wait until he has a "kill shot" so to speak.  He has to make sure that he has verifiable backup for making any allegations towards the incoming POTUS, no matter how much of an asshat that incoming POTUS is.  So, it's possible that he's sitting back and waiting until he knows he has all those ducks in a row before he says something definitive.

I think that's 100% true.  Obama has enough respect for the office of President, the American people, people all around the world looking to us, and for himself, to not come out and say it without a "kill shot".  As President he knows what kind of massive impact and repercussions would happen if he came out and said "Donald Trump conspired with the Russians."  Obama knows how massive that would be, so he's not going to say anything till he's completely sure of everything.  He also plays his cards close to his chest, I mean who knew that during the Correspondents Dinner a few years back, while he was joking and laughing during that, bin Laden was about to be killed?

Edited December 19, 2016 by Jediknight

[NewDigs]

Because nothing says Arts-in-America like Rambo.

[Fable]

I don’t even know where to post this, but I am so downhearted right now.  Every single member of my family supported Trump as well as most of my good friends.  I can accept that people disagree, but for the first time, I find that I feel the need to disengage from some of the people I have been close to.  I am starting to wonder if I ever knew them.  Since the election, I have had so many varying emotional reactions.  There are days when I cannot watch the news at all, and other days where I frantically search for anything I can get my hands on to help me understand what is happening. 

Also, for the first time, I am truly scared.  People that I thought of as intelligent and reasonable seem to have been hypnotized or mesmerized by a master of illusion.  I don’t consider myself an affiliate of either party and by no means do I even pretend to know the ins and outs of politics, but the blatant denials from people who heard what Trump said and yet voted for him is downright terrifying. 

I try to understand each side, and I agree we have our problems, and we always will, but I don’t think throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a great plan.  I view it this way:  We are considering buying a home where the doorbell doesn’t work, part of the roof needs replacing and the carpet is frayed all around the house.  Obviously we need to prioritize and figure out which issue we should tackle first, but then along comes the next buyer who says, fuck it, let’s just burn it down because it isn’t worth fixing. 

[Pixel]

2 hours ago, KIMBERLYANN11 said:

I've never had a problem with Merry Christmas either, but I have noticed like some others here, a mean tone to it this year - like daring someone to say something different. I took DD out for brunch Saturday and the waitress, who was a cute little thing about DDs age, must have said it five times.  When we paid the bill, she said it again and added "Aren't you excited?".  Weird.  Excited about what? Christmas?  They have it every year. It seemed like she was making it her goal to say it as many times as possible or until people repeated it back. I just said yeah, you too.

FWIW, she was an awesome waitress in all other ways so she got a good tip.  She was cheerful and spent a lot of time going over the coffee bar offerings with DD.  Maybe she was just excited because she was expecting a good gift.

What I think is particularly unfortunate is that if there wasn't all this hubbub about a nonexistent war on Christmas, you probably wouldn't have overanalyzed this interaction and even wondered if there was more to it than met the eye.  That's the fallout, isn't it? Like, I never thought about whether someone said "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" or spelled Xmas with an "X".  But now I think about it and wonder.  I was at my plastic surgeon's office Monday (I'm not a rich spoiled plastic surgery addict - I just had a tummy tuck in April after wanting one for ages and I needed my belly button revised because it decided to close) and my surgeon is some sort of not white - his name is Patel, so I'm assuming Indian.  As I was leaving he said "Happy Holidays" and I just said back "Merry Christmas" without even thinking about it and immediately felt horrible, because I thought, what if he thinks I'm trying to force it on him?  I'm an atheist!  I don't even care!  And yet because of all this I actually WORRIED about something as simple as a nice holiday greeting!

Ugh.  

Also, I've noticed it's almost impossible to stay on topic completely. Do we need a "General political bitching" thread?

Edited December 19, 2016 by Pixel

[SoSueMe]

16 hours ago, shok said:

Didn't he also babble some gibberish a while back about getting to know him when they were both featured on 60 Minutes one night and spent time together in the green room? Some quick investigation discovered it was a complete lie since Putin had been interviewed in Russia and the orange buffoon in New York. The lies just flow so effortlessly from him. Well, not effortlessly, because he struggles to complete a sentence with the fluency of a Grade 5 kid, but you know what I mean.

Yeah I remember that. I think he referred to himself and Putin as "stable mates" for cripe's sake.

I see he's just appointed another billionaire as Sec. of the Army. We have a real Billionaire Boys Club happening here. Sheesh. 

21 hours ago, Pixel said:

As an atheist, I've never had a problem with someone saying Merry Christmas to me, and returning the greeting. Until now. 

I thought W was a little dumb, but I was never embarrassed by him. I am profoundly embarrassed that this country is full of enough people willing to put that barely sentient orange turd in power. 

I absolutely understand. Beyond embarrassment, there is a real fear regarding atheism. If there is such an uproar about Christmas and (some) people getting so militant about it, I don't even want to imagine the furor if some radical decides to arouse fear and loathing of atheists. I have heard that atheists are the most hated and least trusted demographic in this country. All this despite the fact that they are the most peaceful and law abiding.  

[Shannon L.]

1 hour ago, NewDigs said:

Because nothing says Arts-in-America like Rambo.

First off:  They were serious about that? [My Cousin Vinny ;) ]  I thought it was satire like the meme's going around about other amusing cabinet positions.

I'm an unapologetic Stallone fan and defender, so this doesn't bother me too much since he is engaged in the arts and has been for most of his adult life (yes, much of it wasn't good, but he had a few winners in his lifetime, the best of which was Rocky, of course).  Not that that makes him fully qualified for this position, but arts, while extremely important, imo, won't kill us if it goes wrong.  But, someone like Sarah Palin running dealing with Veteran's Affairs?  A lot could go wrong there that could end up hurting people.  As a Stallone fan, I applaud him for saying he's not interested. 

[Pixel]

Stallone actually probably wouldn't have been a bad choice for the arts.  He's worked really hard to get where he is, and has been in the industry forever.  He understands that without the arts, his life would have been very different. It's a rare instance of Trump choosing someone who might actually not tear apart what he's in charge of. It's actually kind of unfortunate that he said no.

[random chance]

1 hour ago, Fable said:

I don’t even know where to post this, but I am so downhearted right now.  Every single member of my family supported Trump as well as most of my good friends.  I can accept that people disagree, but for the first time, I find that I feel the need to disengage from some of the people I have been close to.  I am starting to wonder if I ever knew them. 

I know exactly how you feel. My grandparents risked their lives to escape from East Germany, and several of their grandchildren are Trumpinistas.

39 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

I have heard that atheists are the most hated and least trusted demographic in this country. All this despite the fact that they are the most peaceful and law abiding.  

I think it's because they believe an atheist won't have morals or ethics, unlike say priests who molest children or Christians who spit on gays.

[NutMeg]

On 12/18/2016 at 10:25 PM, Lunata said:

After China took the underwater drone, Donald tweeted "this is unpresidented!" Then he corrected his spelling "this is unprecedented!" 

I read "unpresidented" as a beautiful example of a Freudian slip. 

Quote

 

Freud·i·an slip

noun

an unintentional error regarded as revealing subconscious feelings.

 

In other words, I read it initially as That man never wanted to be president, but a few days later I start thinking that it could also read as "Anything happening has to be 'presidented', i.e. approved by ME, Donald Dump".

I still prefer my first interpretation.

Edited December 19, 2016 by NutMeg
Auto correct corrected the wording of PeotUS I quoted. How ironic is that?

[Pixel]

8 minutes ago, random chance said:

I think it's because they believe an atheist won't have morals or ethics, unlike say priests who molest children or Christians who spit on gays.

This.  I got my bachelor's degree from a Nazarene university. One of my co-students (who was also a co-worker) blatantly told me I could not possibly live a good or moral life because I'm an atheist, and couldn't understand why my husband (a well known glass artist) would donate to a charity auction for a Christian school.  I explained to her that we believe in education and helping people, that we don't need an imaginary threat of hell to make us want to be decent people.

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I explained to her that we believe in education and helping people, that we don't need an imaginary threat of hell to make us want to be decent people.

I always find this such an odd train of thought. Like...so you're saying that the only thing keeping you from slitting a child's throat or letting someone starve to death is the fear that a supernatural being will set you on fire to punish you for it? 

[backformore]

My religion (or non-religion) is Secular Humanism. Basically, it's about embracing the morality part of religion, but rejecting the dogma.  So, don't kill, lie, cheat, etc.,  Because those things are wrong, not because God is watching and will punish you.

Be a good person, respect others.  But do it just because it's the right thing to do, not because you're trying to earn point toward an eternal reward.

Secular Humanism is not atheism, because it doesn't say there is NOT a god. It just separates belief in god from making moral choices.

Edited December 19, 2016 by backformore

[backgroundnoise]

Quote

he will have lost absolutely nothing and will quickly move on to the next thing that feeds his ego and narcissism.

What I'm hoping he has lost forever is any kind of respect from the very people he wants it from.  I hope he's a punch line for the rest of his life.  I also hope that it becomes abundantly clear that he is no way near to being a billionaire, as that seems to be a particular bug up his behind.

Quote

The lies just flow so effortlessly from him. Well, not effortlessly, because he struggles to complete a sentence with the fluency of a Grade 5 kid, but you know what I mean.

It continues to amaze me that people are willing to brush off or tolerate behavior from a 70 year old President Elect that they wouldn't tolerate in a six year old.

[NutMeg]

7 minutes ago, backformore said:

My religion (or non-religion) is Secular Humanism. Basically, it's about embracing the morality part of religion, but rejecting the dogma.  So, don't kill, lie, cheat, etc.,  Because those things are wrong, not because God is watching and will punish you.

Be a good person, respect others.  But do it just because it's the right thing to do, not because you're trying to earn point toward an eternal reward.

Secular Humanism is not atheism, because it doesn't say there is NOT a god. It just separates belief in god from making moral choices.

I'm with you there. With parents that together represent at least 3 different countries from 2 continents and 2 different religions, and with none of them practicing their religion, that is exactly what my upbringing was. Embrace the common good in all beliefs, do good as much as you can, try to never do bad, respect people from all origins and beliefs, etc. Irony of ironies, we spent many holidays with friends of a religion that what none of any of my parents (fun times!...)

[numbnut]

Twit won't use the Secret Service? How dumb can he be? (Pretty dumb.) From the Daily Beast:

President-elect Donald Trump has made the unusual choice to continue employing his own private security team instead of leaving the task up to the Secret Service. “It’s playing with fire,” said former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow, who worked on President Obama’s detail during his 2012 campaign. Having a mix-and-match security team working events in tandem with the Secret Service “increases the Service’s liability, it creates greater confusion, and it creates greater risk,” Wackrow said. Trump is expected to continue that same system through his presidency, Politico reports. All modern presidents have up to now deferred to the Secret Service, leaving just event security to local law enforcement. Breaking from the norm, Trump has instead elected to maintain his own private security force, which is led by retired veteran and New York City cop Keith Schiller. “You never want to comingle a police function with a private security function,” Wackrow said. “If you talk to the guys on the detail and the guys who are running the rallies, that’s been a little bit difficult because it’s so abnormal.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/12/19/trump-security-force-playing-with-fire.html?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition

Also from the Daily Beast: Michael Moore offers to pay the fines for faithless electors. Of course, Twit will categorize this as a bribe...

Filmmaker Michael Moore says he will pay the fines of any Republican electors punished for voting against Donald Trump on Monday. The author wrote on Facebook, “I obviously can’t and won’t give you money to vote tomorrow, but if you do vote your conscience and you are punished for it, I will personally step up pay your fine, which is my legal right to do.” Moore said that his urge to financially assist rogue electors comes from his love of country. “I’m simply asking you to vote your conscience and PLEASE do not put our nation in danger by choosing Donald J. Trump.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/12/19/michael-moore-to-pay-rogue-elector-fines.html

[stillshimpy]

I'm not an atheist,  I'm an agnostic.  Never been much for defining things rigidly but I do think the bible is some blatantly absurd stuff even if ye olde teachings of Christ are just solid rules to live by....despite the fact that so many Christians seem to interpret them as an invitation to do some kind of antithetical "I'm better than you 'cause I'm saved!" dance (from the imaginary eternal torment, made up as a tool to subjugate and control the populace back before the age of reason.  )  

I went to a Quaker farm camp as a kid, was raised in a very liberal Episcopal church, and my dad actually got his PhD from Trinity, in Dublin Ireland.  

He once told me something that I think is valuable enough to share: Do not confuse people who claim to be Christians with those living the actual teachings of Christ because there are many people who live them with, or without religion, "don't throw out Christians with the bible banger's bathwater." 

The more someone talks about how very Christian they are, the less likely they are to be followers of Christ.  

I've found it to be pretty darned true.   People conflate faith and religion all the time.  They are not the same thing although the former can be present in the latter, it isn't always.  Religion is a man-made structure, always.  Always.  Some people who practice a religion have faith, others simply are participating in a power structure without having absorbed any of the actual teachings of tolerance, love,  and acceptance. Those teachings are not solely contained in the Christian religion, most religions have, at their roots, rules about being decent and kind as a way of life.  

Religion has done great harm in the world, now and in the past.  Faith, no matter what it is in, other people, their goodness, their decency, our ability to be each other's salvation is a different matter entirely and it doesn't necessarily have a thing to do with amusingly childish renderings of an afterlife in either direction.  Atheists can have tremendous faith, they just have that faith in others, not in figureheads.   

Or they can simply be awesome people because they know and have faith in their actual, own selves.  

Trump and his supporters, screaming about walls and threatening others with all manner of hostility, while trying to grind them under some disgusting boot heel are not Christians.  No one who engages in those behaviors can accurately claim to be so.  

Edited December 19, 2016 by stillshimpy

[numbnut]

Just as I feared, Twit's lack of self-control is leading us toward doomsday. China's response to his tweets:

China's official response to Trump has been relatively muted but the Global Times indicated that this could change once he takes office: "China has kept a calm attitude toward his provocative remarks. But if he treats China after assuming office in the same way as in his tweets, China will not exercise restraint."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/18/politics/china-us-underwater-vehicle-south-china-sea/index.html

12 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

The more someone talks about how very Christian they are, the less likely they are to be followers of Christ.

Amen.

Edited December 19, 2016 by numbnut

[Duke Silver]

12 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

He once told me something that I think is valuable enough to share: Do not confuse people who claim to be Christians with those living the actual teachings of Christ because there are many people who live them with, or without religion, "don't throw out Christians with the bible banger's bathwater." 

The more someone talks about how very Christian they are, the less likely they are to be followers of Christ.  

^^ Just thought it was worth highlighting this.

All this fake Christian crap we see in politics especially is galling.  What a craven view of spiritual belief to use in such base ways.

I identify myself as being an atheist, but I swear, I live my life as Christ would more than most supposed Christians I have encountered.

[izabella]

18 minutes ago, numbnut said:

Just as I feared, Twit's lack of self-control is leading us toward doomsday. China's response to his tweets:

China's official response to Trump has been relatively muted but the Global Times indicated that this could change once he takes office: "China has kept a calm attitude toward his provocative remarks. But if he treats China after assuming office in the same way as in his tweets, China will not exercise restraint."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/18/politics/china-us-underwater-vehicle-south-china-sea/index.html

I'm guessing that it would make Putin very happy if the US and China were at odds.  Maybe Putin is expecting that will bring Russia and the US even closer, as allies against China.  I'm guessing that's why Trumputin made that Taiwan call.  It would not surprise me at all if that is why Trumputin is - and has been throughout his campaign - trying to set us against China.

Going forward, it seems that we ought to be looking at Trumputin's policies and tweets through the lens of what is best for Russian interests:  WWPD?  What Would Putin Do?

Edited December 19, 2016 by izabella

[NinjaPenguins]

Speaking of religion, my fundie sister-in-law fervently, passionately believes that Orange has "found God." Now, I've observed the word salad bar being served by the man's mouth, and I haven't heard that. I haven't heard tales of his conversion or testimonials about his devotion to the Church, whatever that means. I have a feeling her particular church is feeding her and my brother toxic lies and openly advocated for Orange. She has also said it doesn't matter if Orange ruins everything, because the Rapture might happen. The fact that she and my brother believe such ridiculous, false things scares me a tad. They live in a completely different reality. I really dread spending Christmas morning with them, but I love my nieces and nephew, so I have to go. 

[ClareWalks]

5 minutes ago, NinjaPenguins said:

Speaking of religion, my fundie sister-in-law fervently, passionately believes that Orange has "found God."

I would ask "since WHEN?" 

5 minutes ago, NinjaPenguins said:

She has also said it doesn't matter if Orange ruins everything, because the Rapture might happen.

Never mind, no rational conversation to be had with that one.

[Pixel]

Trump has no more found God than I've found a winning lotto ticket.  

[backgroundnoise]

Trump finds god every time he looks in a mirror.

[DollEyes]

21 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

One theory I've seen about President Obama's response is that he has to wait until he has a "kill shot" so to speak.  He has to make sure that he has verifiable backup for making any allegations towards the incoming POTUS, no matter how much of an asshat that incoming POTUS is.  So, it's possible that he's sitting back and waiting until he knows he has all those ducks in a row before he says something definitive.  Part of the problem with that is that he needs to find the best way to do this without compromising intelligence assets, or, at minimum, giving a chance for those who would unavoidably be compromised to be safe first.  It would feel great for all of us to see him up there railing on Trump and company about this egregious violation of our electoral process.  However, he has to be above reacting on emotion (unlike Twitler).  He has made it clear that he has evidence to support his belief that Putin interfered in our election.  He has stated that it needs to be fully investigated to determine how far this plot has gone, and who is involved.  That's what he's supposed to do at this point in time, as much as it might make us all feel better to see more.  

  True, but then again, President Obama is an intelligent, mature, dignified and decent human being who thinks before he speaks; the Orange-Tinted Turd, not so much, to put it mildly. 

[random chance]

57 minutes ago, numbnut said:

President-elect Donald Trump has made the unusual choice to continue employing his own private security team instead of leaving the task up to the Secret Service. “It’s playing with fire,” said former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow

Probably because he can't make the Secret Service sign a NDA. But if he wants to play with fire, that's fine by me! And if he wants to hire that dodgy guy who claimed to be a doctor instead of seeing actual medical professionals, that's good too!

[KerleyQ]

14 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I read something about that, it's a teen aged girl I believe.

And to that, I say, honey, cash up front and make sure you remember your pepper spray. 

13 hours ago, hoosier80 said:

For Twitler, that is all he does.  Look at me.  I've got so much money, I'm the smartest, etc.  And it's telling that he needs those rallies.  He has to have constant admiration.  It's why he won't do press conferences.  He cannot take any criticism.  You almost want to ask, who did this to you?  And he knows what to do to try to charm his way into certain crowds, but I don't think he's ever gotten into the super elite circles he so wants to be part of really.  He's got all the hangers on and new money crowd; he wouldn't be caught dead with many of the people at his rallies in a real social event.  He just tolerates them because they are feeding his ego.  He's also going to try and put everyone in their place who has ever said a negative word about him.  

I've often said I would love to hear how Trump and his kids talk about his supporters when no one else is listening.  I'd be willing to bet that there's a lot of mocking.  

13 hours ago, Zuzubee said:

I can't say this as a fact, but I'm guessing the rest of the world is laughing at us. Kind of like ... stupid Americans, electing a buffoon reality star. Am so embarrassed. Similar to the way I felt when W was reelected. 

Didn't always agree with all that President Obama did these last 8 years bit at least I could hold my head up and knew we had an intelligent, classy person as our leader. Thereby representing that we are an intelligent, classy nation.

Sad we are no longer seen as such. We are the epitome of the stupid, ugly American to the world. Woe is me, we are all judged by our leader ...

 

12 hours ago, Avocado said:

I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I can tell you Canadians aren't laughing -- we're horrified and scared along with you. That also seems to be the sentiment among my various international friends. Nobody thinks this is funny.

The one exception: a young Russian woman who I met traveling a couple years ago. After the election, she posted something on Facebook like "Yay, Donald Trump is POTUS! Maybe Russia and the USA can finally become friends again!" From what I knew of her (we traveled together for 2+ weeks) she was very smart, educated, and progressive. I think the Russian media sold them a bill of goods.

I think that's probably the most likely feeling - fear.  Trump isn't just a buffoon. If that was the case, I think the reaction would largely be laughter.  But, if anyone has paid attention to what he's saying, to his connection to Putin, etc, then they know this isn't a joke, and it doesn't only affect us.  

1 hour ago, random chance said:

I know exactly how you feel. My grandparents risked their lives to escape from East Germany, and several of their grandchildren are Trumpinistas.

I think it's because they believe an atheist won't have morals or ethics, unlike say priests who molest children or Christians who spit on gays.

About a year or so ago, I saw a clip from a talk one of the Duck Dynasty guys gave.  At some point, he started talking about how if you're an atheist, and some bad guys break into your house, ties you up, rapes and kills your family, how do you have a frame of reference for "right or wrong" to react to it?  I was just stunned.  And angry.  Who the hell is he to decide that, because someone doesn't share his faith, they are incapable of understanding right and wrong, or of feeling emotion seeing anyone, let alone people they love, raped and killed?  What kind of conceited, selfish asshole thinks like that?  

35 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm guessing that it would make Putin very happy if the US and China were at odds.  Maybe Putin is expecting that will bring Russia and the US even closer, as allies against China.  I'm guessing that's why Trumputin made that Taiwan call.  It would not surprise me at all if that is why Trumputin is - and has been throughout his campaign - trying to set us against China.

Going forward, it seems that we ought to be looking at Trumputin's policies and tweets through the lens of what is best for Russian interests:  WWPD?  What Would Putin Do?

I saw the reaction from a Trump supporter (possibly one of the Russian bots who "follows" him on Twitter) to China taking the drone that amounted to "see, maybe being friends with Putin wouldn't be such a bad idea if he can help us fend off China's aggressions."   I'm guessing that is exactly Putin's plan - use Trump to stir China up and make them anxious, then use their reactions and anxiety as a selling point to cleave to Putin to protect us from China's puzzling, out of the blue, aggression.  

[SoSueMe]

Thank goodness for this forum. I read and while there is the hopelessness of the next 4 years grinding at me, at least I can find comfort in knowing that there still are sentient beings out there. I heart you all.

[ari333]

If this turd has found god or any moral twinge of any kind, then I am Mary, Queen of Scots.

Edited December 19, 2016 by ari333

[ChromaKelly]

23 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

I saw the reaction from a Trump supporter (possibly one of the Russian bots who "follows" him on Twitter) to China taking the drone that amounted to "see, maybe being friends with Putin wouldn't be such a bad idea if he can help us fend off China's aggressions."   I'm guessing that is exactly Putin's plan - use Trump to stir China up and make them anxious, then use their reactions and anxiety as a selling point to cleave to Putin to protect us from China's puzzling, out of the blue, aggression.  

Yay. Triangulating.

I was listening to an NPR program (because I'm a coastal liberal elite in my ivory tower), and they were interviewing Trump voters and one said regarding Muslim immigrants "They won't assimilate but they want us to change. They force us to build mosques across the country and we're not allowed to pray anymore." And I'm just like WTF? This is a white woman in a 96% white rural county in Montana. She must be getting this crap from Rush Limbaugh or something. This whole economic fear drove Trump voters is only semi-true. I saw one graph that showed terrorism and immigration were the top concerns of Trump voters. Now, let's be realistic. Who is more affected by terrorism and immigration? People in large cities. But the large cities went for HRC. The people that actually live it are not afraid, but those that live in their bubbles and just see the fears stoked at rallies and on right wing media are afraid of the terrorist-immigrant boogeyman.

And, I really do hate painting people as "they", but I feel so far-removed from someone with that kind of thinking. I'm not all that educated, I'm a college dropout. I don't think of myself as the elite, but I guess I'm the type of person that is what's wrong with America, according to some. I just don't understand, and I don't know how to bridge this gap we now have in our country.