S01.E02: The Big Three

[PamelaMaeSnap]

15 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Yeah, very true. My parents used to tell me McDonalds was closed a lot. That was their only attempt to keep me from chubbing out. I don't think there is an easy trick. But, I don't look like Kate, so maybe that's the trick.

I may have the winner here, and I say this with all due respect to my mom, who HONESTLY didn't think there was anything wrong with this (we're talking the mid-1970s), only knew I was a 15-year-old who was absolutely miserable about her weight ...

She (who smoked about 3 packs of Parliaments a day) suggested that "if I put a cigarette in my mouth instead of food" I'd probably be able to lose weight.

Which I did.  And I did.  And I lost about 50 pounds and smoked three packs a day until I quit cold turkey on my 30th birthday, and only then because it's what hubby and I chose as our date to start cleaning ourselves out prior to our attempts to get pregnant. 

But I WAS chubby and desperately unhappy, and she only saw that I was unhappy and wanted to help (and she was naturally extremely thin and had trouble GAINING weight, which later turned out to be because of a terminal illness -- that had nothing to do with the Parliament habit -- but that's a whole 'nother story).

Edited September 30, 2016 by PamelaMaeSnap

[DrSpaceman73]

8 hours ago, voiceover said:

Dang!  You'd think Kevin burned down an orphanage.  He quit a job he hated.

I'm fine with the "now other people are out of work" angle of protest (a reason Bill Lawrence gave for doing a year of post-Scrubs w/new interns), but the show hasn't given us that angle (yet), so the "other people" are metaphorical.  

This feels more like a jumping-off point for a character at the start of a new series.  Not proof he's a dick for turning down the money.

Now if he uses his new free time to burn down an orphanage...

Has nothing to do with the money, in my mind.  Or the other people being out of work.

He has a contract.  Fulfilling a contract is not being a "whore".  Its living up to an agreed to obligation. 

[sjohnson]

In principle one could object to the Manny story line because the show is so grossly caricaturing bosses. Given what we've seen on TV, sorry, I think that would be naive at best, but that would be the plausible effort at a principled objection. What you really can't do, I think, is see how the director was doing his job. then claim Kevin should just do his. The director was abusive because Kevin was trying to do a good job. The only way to spin this as unprofessional of Kevin, as opposed to the director being unprofessional, is to assume the boss has the right and the power to abuse employees, because money buys everything, including integrity, self-respect, any pride in your work, except you've made the boss happy. Trying to justify such servility on the grounds that Kevin is "rich," which is by no means a given, by the way, is the kind of populist appeal that gives populism a bad name. My experience has been that the kind of people who think expensive props like actors should just suck it up also think fast food employees or cashiers should just suck it up too. No doubt there are all sorts of exceptions to the general rule. 

The thing is, the show I think is rather ambiguous on this issue. Cardies remark above about Kevin's discontents being a stand in for writer/producer self congratulation is altogether too accurate, I fear. But the show seems to be playing it both ways, which lacks artistic integrity in a story line ostensibly about artistic integrity. This is not good, I think. 

Randall not forgiving Kevin is one thing, but what's his problem with Kate? 

What's Rebecca's job again?

[luna1122]

8 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

Randall not forgiving Kevin is one thing, but what's his problem with Kate? 

Does he have a problem with Kate? We've seen interaction, and she squealed 'Hi, Randall!' to the phone when Kevin told her he was talking to him. Did I miss something indicating tension/animosity between them?

8 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

What's Rebecca's job again?

Taking care of triplets, it looks like. If she has an outside job, so far we haven't seen it, I don't think. Kate either.

[MaggieG]

One of the articles I read about this show (I think it was in EW) stated that Kate was Kevin's personal assistant. I think she would have been on set with him though if she was, so I don't know.

[luna1122]

Wikipedia says Kate is Kevin's personal assistant. Hmm. We haven't seen any actual evidence of that. Yeah, you'd think she'd have been onset when he had his meltdown. At any rate, it doesn't seem like a great idea, being your brother's assistant. Or not, I don't know.

[zumpie]

In principle one could object to the Manny story line because the show is so grossly caricaturing bosses. Given what we've seen on TV, sorry, I think that would be naive at best, but that would be the plausible effort at a principled objection. What you really can't do, I think, is see how the director was doing his job. then claim Kevin should just do his. The director was abusive because Kevin was trying to do a good job. The only way to spin this as unprofessional of Kevin, as opposed to the director being unprofessional, is to assume the boss has the right and the power to abuse employees, because money buys everything, including integrity, self-respect, any pride in your work, except you've made the boss happy. Trying to justify such servility on the grounds that Kevin is "rich," which is by no means a given, by the way, is the kind of populist appeal that gives populism a bad name. My experience has been that the kind of people who think expensive props like actors should just suck it up also think fast food employees or cashiers should just suck it up too. No doubt there are all sorts of exceptions to the general rule. 

The thing is, the show I think is rather ambiguous on this issue. Cardies remark above about Kevin's discontents being a stand in for writer/producer self congratulation is altogether too accurate, I fear. But the show seems to be playing it both ways, which lacks artistic integrity in a story line ostensibly about artistic integrity. This is not good, I think. 

Randall not forgiving Kevin is one thing, but what's his problem with Kate? 

What's Rebecca's job again?

Or you can handle the boss issue like an adult and bring it to the attention of your boss's boss or your agent---you know, so you have a legitimate reason for seeking to get out of your contract. It's also known as "exhausting all resources' and something you have to demonstrate in real life to collect unemployment, for example.

Regarding your gross generalization about "such people also abusing busboys"? I waited tables and worked in customer service jobs for the bulk of my life. People toiling for minimum wage in such positions are precisely the people who would happily switch places with kevin

[zumpie]

  17 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Yeah, very true. My parents used to tell me McDonalds was closed a lot. That was their only attempt to keep me from chubbing out. I don't think there is an easy trick. But, I don't look like Kate, so maybe that's the trick.

I may have the winner here, and I say this with all due respect to my mom, who HONESTLY didn't think there was anything wrong with this (we're talking the mid-1970s), only knew I was a 15-year-old who was absolutely miserable about her weight ...

She (who smoked about 3 packs of Parliaments a day) suggested that "if I put a cigarette in my mouth instead of food" I'd probably be able to lose weight.

Which I did.  And I did.  And I lost about 50 pounds and smoked three packs a day until I quit cold turkey on my 30th birthday, and only then because it's what hubby and I chose as our date to start cleaning ourselves out prior to our attempts to get pregnant. 

But I WAS chubby and desperately unhappy, and she only saw that I was unhappy and wanted to help (and she was naturally extremely thin and had trouble GAINING weight, which later turned out to be because of a terminal illness -- that had nothing to do with the Parliament habit -- but that's a whole 'nother story).

That kinda shows significant dysfunction on your moms part, since by the 1970s it was well established as something really bad for you. Also 15, while very young, isn't 8

[LydiaMoon1]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Dang!  You'd think Kevin burned down an orphanage.  He quit a job he hated.

 

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Has nothing to do with the money, in my mind.  Or the other people being out of work.

He has a contract.  Fulfilling a contract is not being a "whore".  Its living up to an agreed to obligation. 

It has EVERYTHING to do with money.  Kevin is the star of a hit TV show.  Even if his sitcom is the #3 sitcom on the network, it’s probably part of a hit lineup of shows that the network has likely invested millions of dollars in developing.  More importantly, the network is probably reaping many more millions, if not billions, in profit.  Now Kevin wants to jeopardize all that because he suddenly wants to be a “serious actor”? Please.  He better suck it up and go shirtless for 2 more years. 

https://priceonomics.com/the-economics-of-a-hit-tv-show/

Edited September 30, 2016 by LydiaMoon1

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Has nothing to do with the money, in my mind.  Or the other people being out of work.

He has a contract.  Fulfilling a contract is not being a "whore".  Its living up to an agreed to obligation. 

Agree that it has nothing to do with being a whore.  He is shooting himself in the foot.  But that's the point, for me.  He acted impulsively on a milestone, emotional day, same way Kate did and Randall, as well.  And in a sense, Jack.  They were all willing to roll the dice in some way.  Kevin quit in a spectacular way, Kate got thick as thieves with Toby too fast, Randall brought a stranger into his home, Jack wanted to bring three babies home.  It is a dramatic jumping off point for the series.  It worked for me.  The line from Randall about being a whore was a clunker.

[mojito]

I hope that William is completely honest, otherwise, for me, his conning his son would put this show on soap opera status. There's enough to work with with just his stated story alone. He is dying, after all. There will be drama attached to that.

I was under the impression that Randall winced at the sight of his mother's visit because he wasn't ready to tell his mother that he had tracked down his bio father. But I tend to take most things at face value, which really helps to be sucked into plot twists (that, and not reading/researching/watching Hollywood showbiz material or watching previews at the end of shows). 

I'm hoping that Kevin's story will tend to be deeper. For instance, he's probably always felt inferior to "perfect" Randall, and he has doubts about how good his acting skills are. He couldn't even get turned on by those two women in the previous episode; there is turmoil in his world. Please, show, don't go the gay route. Dysfunction, though, would be a road less traveled. (I'm still wondering if there's a reason that he could feel inferior to Kate, too, but maybe she's his reason to feel better about himself.)

I've read posts commenting on the fat Kate storyline. The show can't flesh out every aspect of a character's life, it has to pick major issues otherwise the plot would lag. Kate's weight is definitely a major issue, and it has to be foremost on her mind and be a hindrance in her personal growth. She's also been the sister of two buff brothers. Could be that she, too, felt apart from her brothers because of her weight. It seems that she might not have had a clear idea of what she wanted to do with her life, as her brothers apparently did. 

An aside: I look at William, I see Marvin Gaye. The whole time.

[izabella]

23 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Also-also, since I didn't recognize Mandy Moore when they said "it's grandma and grandpa," until I read THIS thread, I actually thought that Miguel was BETH'S dad and grandma was just some other woman and it was another coincidence that Jack's best friend was the dad of Randall's wife.

I had a similar thought when watching.  I'm not convinced from one shot in a doorway that Miguel and Beth are married now.  I'm still thinking that Miguel could very well be Beth's dad, and it's not at all strange that the kids of two best friends would fall in love after knowing each other their whole lives and get married. 

I still love this show, and am so happy it's on.  I differ from most people here and I really like Toby.  He offers some fun and light-hearted joie de vive to Kate, who seems to be in a dark place right now, just after her birthday when most of us take a minute to consider how happy we are or aren't.  I'm also happy that they are focusing on Kate's weight, because it seems very realistic that it would be a struggle for her and I think they're handling it in an interesting way.  It's only the second episode so I will give them a chance to show us more of her life and character in future episodes.

The flashback in this episode set up some interesting background for the characters.  I get Randall's intensity about being "good" and "perfect" and love that this is his back-story.  Kids who grew up with parents that have high expectations of them for whatever reason internalize a lot of stress in order to live up to those expectations of perfection. 

And, so glad that William is feeding his cat!  I am a cat lover, so that makes me happy, lol.

[random chance]

20 minutes ago, mojito said:

 (I'm still wondering if there's a reason that he could feel inferior to Kate, too, but maybe she's his reason to feel better about himself.)

That's what I was thinking, because I've seen that in real life.

[llewis823]

On 9/27/2016 at 9:43 PM, Pickles said:

 

I don't know anyone's name yet, but why is the grandpa sleeping in one of the granddaughter's bedrooms when they have a huge home? Isn't there a guest room he could stay in?

Maybe it is just me, but why in the world doesn't actor guy just suck it up for two years and collect his $3 million a year and continue with the sitcom? And then move on to more serious roles? Just be happy to be employed! 

And Kate's boyfriend's little patch of hair in the front bothers me. Shave it off!

 

OMG - EVERYTHING you just said!!!

[Clanstarling]

18 minutes ago, mojito said:

I was under the impression that Randall winced at the sight of his mother's visit because he wasn't ready to tell his mother that he had tracked down his bio father. But I tend to take most things at face value, which really helps to be sucked into plot twists (that, and not reading/researching/watching Hollywood showbiz material or watching previews at the end of shows)

That was the same impression I got. I didn't sense any antagonism toward Manuel either.

I'm enjoying the show, and the twists, so I'm happy to watch it play out.

[kili]

Quote

I think my other issue with her is I'm TOLD what a glorious human being she is....and I most assuredly haven't seen it

When I saw her swan into Randall's house, I suspect we'll find out she has a few issues on her own. I had assumed she was dead.

Kevin is asking everybody from the valet to his estranged brother what he should do and he never thinks to call his Mom? Wouldn't Mom have been the first call? Wouldn't Perfect Mom be the one to give the sage advice?

Kevin's job is so bizarre. The director says he can be replaced in a second, so abuses him and refuses to let him have any influence on the show. But it is one of the network shows that is successful enough, they want to continue with it. Maybe somebody should talk with Kevin instead of at him, find out the problem and fire that director. It seems to me that it might be easier to replace an obnoxious director than the star of the show. Surely, there is some middle ground. How can he be so unimportant and important at the same time? But, drama! So, we'll just accept that he is leaving.

And why is Grandma coming into the house unannounced at breakfast? Randall already has company and breakfast is an odd time to come for a surprise visit (everybody seemed surprised).

[Packerbrewerbadger]

In Midwest America in 1979, I had an emergency c- section, my friend delivered twins vaginally ( and got pregnant with medical assistance due to infertility with a extremely likely chance of multiples -she was relieved it was just twins). Also outdoor and indoor soccer programs were very popular  with my childern from kindergarten to jr high thru the YMCA.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Packerbrewerbadger

[random chance]

13 minutes ago, kili said:

Kevin is asking everybody from the valet to his estranged brother what he should do and he never thinks to call his Mom? Wouldn't Mom have been the first call? Wouldn't Perfect Mom be the one to give the sage advice?

 

That's one of the drawbacks of twist-oriented shows, the characters do (or don't do) odd things to serve the twist.

[LydiaMoon1]

Quote

Yeah, the 1980s were 30 years ago, so it's very easy for me to believe that parenting techniques and approaches to health and behavioral issues have changed in that time.

I also thought the Mom’s approach to her daughter being overweight were very true to the time period. Not necessarily the best approach or the “right” approach by modern thinking, but true to the time period.

Quote

People are so afraid of fat shaming that they live in their own self-imposed make believe, pretend land that they're "cool" with their bodies the way they are, when they're not.  In fact, I suspect any minute now someone will chime into this thread proclaiming that I don't know what I'm talking about, because THEY are perfectly fine with being overweight, and THEY wouldn't change a thing.  I'm not buying it.

In general, I don't get the whole concept of fat-shaming, and I don't understand the American obsession with policing other people’s weight. To my mind, if I'm not f*cking you or feeding you, it's none of my business.  Even if you have genuine concern about someone else’s health, it’s ultimately their body and their life.  All you can do is express your concern (and hopefully, offer your support), and let the chips fall where they may. Aside from that, the whole thing just feels insidious.

What do people get out of fat-shaming anyway, especially when it’s directed at strangers?  Is it the chance to feel momentarily superior to another human being based upon something as arbitrary and transitory as weight? I’ve heard people give the disingenuous justification that it’s done out of concern for their health.  Yeah, right.  I’ve also heard people claim that their objections stem from the fact that fat people put a strain on the health care system.  Thing is, we all put a strain on the health care system. Whether you’re fat, or a weekend warrior, or a driver who’s speeding or impaired, or a recreational (or hard) drug user, or having unprotected sex with multiple partners, or you don’t eat your vegetables, or this, or that, or a million other things, we all pay for each other.  I guess I just don’t get why some people act so personally affronted because someone else is fat.

[random chance]

9 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

In general, I don't get the whole concept of fat-shaming, and I don't understand the American obsession with policing other people’s weight. [etc]

I'm going to respond to this in the Kate thread.

[Duke2801]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 11:30 PM, truthaboutluv said:

 

Yeah unlike the first twist, I saw this one coming and I'm not sure I'm okay with it. They certainly suggested in this episode that Jack was an alcoholic or getting there and so who knows how shitty a husband and father he may have turned out to be. But still, Miguel's rhapsodizing about Rebecca and now them being together just makes it feel like he was really hanging around, waiting for his moment to move in on Rebecca.

Same here.  I didn't see the first one coming, but I kinda sorta saw this one.  Well, OK, I actually thought it was going to be worse.  I thought that it was going to reveal that Rebecca and Miguel were having an affair in 1980s time.  It wasn't so much Miguel waxing poetic about her at the bar, it was more that phone call that M made to Jack later to apologize.  I knew that they wouldn't just put that scene in without a reason.

Quote

  I like this....the writing is hokey at times though.

This is about where I am at. Writing is often hokey and predictable at times. But at other times, it's clever. Randall and Beth and their family are my favorite part of the show thus far. Loved their pillow banter "Damn woman you need to censor yourself" (after saying he loved her, knew her, and she never had to censor herself with him). Funny!

I agree that Jack is likely dead if R is still wearing the half-moon necklace.  But with this show, ya never know!

And last- but certainly not least - what is going to happen to that poor cat when grandpa gets sicker and can't spend 3 hours a day on a bus to go feed him??  :*( 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Duke2801

[Chaos Theory]

I think Jack is dead mostly because Rebecca is still wearing the "love necklace".  That is kind of a douchy thing to do if she was just divorced from her husband.

i think the fruit/duet thing is effectively going to be a "birthday hand job Skyler White Moment" for a lot of people on the show.  Ie if the show lazy a few years plant of people are going to say they've hated Rebecca since she gave her daughter fruit.  FRUIT!

[breezy424]

On the first episode when William was getting ready to leave Randall's house that first night, he noticed some pictures, picked up the one of Kevin, Kate and Randall, the conversation continued and William said, "Your father must have been very proud of you."  Past tense.  Not your father must be proud of you.  I think that was the first indication that Jack is no longer living.  It seemed that the two had talked about a number of things, like driving from Phillie, but we didn't hear all the conversation.   And then in the second episode, we have grandma and grandpa at the door  and the fact that Rebeca is still wearing the necklace.

I also don't think that Randall's reaction when grandma and grandpa knocked at the door necessarily had anything to do with animosity to Miquel.  It could have been just as much as about his biological father being there and having to explain this all.

It was ridiculous to show the exterior of a pretty large colonial style home and then have it only have three bedrooms?

I am enjoying the show so far. 

[Dejana]

5 hours ago, zumpie said:

That kinda shows significant dysfunction on your moms part, since by the 1970s it was well established as something really bad for you. Also 15, while very young, isn't 8

The Surgeon General's report on smoking was published in 1964 but ten years later, many an American high school still maintained designated student smoking areas. Not all, but it wasn't a rare thing. That's not actively shoving cigarettes into their hands but it didn't exactly discourage something known to be unhealthy at the time. Lots of significantly dysfunctional principals and school boards at the time, I guess.

Miguel being Beth's dad seems a bit complicated but this show is rather soapy... I doubt it, but it could be an explanation of how Randall and Beth met.

[PRgal]

10 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

On the first episode when William was getting ready to leave Randall's house that first night, he noticed some pictures, picked up the one of Kevin, Kate and Randall, the conversation continued and William said, "Your father must have been very proud of you."  Past tense.  Not your father must be proud of you.  I think that was the first indication that Jack is no longer living.  It seemed that the two had talked about a number of things, like driving from Phillie, but we didn't hear all the conversation.   And then in the second episode, we have grandma and grandpa at the door  and the fact that Rebeca is still wearing the necklace.

I also don't think that Randall's reaction when grandma and grandpa knocked at the door necessarily had anything to do with animosity to Miquel.  It could have been just as much as about his biological father being there and having to explain this all.

It was ridiculous to show the exterior of a pretty large colonial style home and then have it only have three bedrooms?

I am enjoying the show so far. 

That's what I was thinking too.  Homes like that usually have four or even five (or at least four+ (i.e. guest/in-law suite in the basement)).  Perhaps one of the rooms is being used as an office?  Or they're one of those people who watch way too much HGTV and made their master suite a gigantic space by combining the master bedroom and another room into one?  Who knows? 

[ShadowFacts]

18 minutes ago, Dejana said:

The Surgeon General's report on smoking was published in 1964 but ten years later, many an American high school still maintained designated student smoking areas. Not all, but it wasn't a rare thing. That's not actively shoving cigarettes into their hands but it didn't exactly discourage something known to be unhealthy at the time. Lots of significantly dysfunctional principals and school boards at the time, I guess.

Miguel being Beth's dad seems a bit complicated but this show is rather soapy... I doubt it, but it could be an explanation of how Randall and Beth met.

The tobacco industry's pushback is legendary, it was years and years before society as a whole embraced non-smoking.  My own high school was one of the ones that had a designated smoking area -- I think mostly to end the practice of sending teachers in bathrooms to police where all the smoking was going on.

I don't think Beth is Miguel's daughter because didn't one of them say they had known each other since she was 19 or something?  They would know each other from a younger age, I would think, if they were the kids of two best friends like Jack and Miguel. 

[Dowel Jones]

On 9/28/2016 at 10:13 PM, Aloeonatable said:

Anyone know or remember?

The opening song to the episode was "Romeo and Juliet" from Dire Straits.  Maybe this?

Maybe Kevin should loudly complain that he is not submitting any reels from "The Manny" for Emmy consideration this year because of the writing, and see where that leads.  Mostly likely, though, all he would get would be a city-wide "And?"

Edited September 30, 2016 by Dowel Jones

[Bean421]

8 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Does he have a problem with Kate? We've seen interaction, and she squealed 'Hi, Randall!' to the phone when Kevin told her he was talking to him. Did I miss something indicating tension/animosity between them?

 

I don't think he and Kate have a problem. He told Kevin that Kate had been keeping him up to date with his life, which suggests they talk frequently and,hopefully, not just about Kevin.  I really want to see the siblings all together...or maybe just Kate and Randall together. 

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't think Beth is Miguel's daughter because didn't one of them say they had known each other since she was 19 or something?  They would know each other from a younger age, I would think, if they were the kids of two best friends like Jack and Miguel. 

Yeah, lets hope not.  This isnt Days of our Lives, at least not yet.

[sjohnson]

8 hours ago, zumpie said:

Regarding your gross generalization about "such people also abusing busboys"? I waited tables and worked in customer service jobs for the bulk of my life. People toiling for minimum wage in such positions are precisely the people who would happily switch places with kevin

I'm glad that you were treated the way you deserve. Also, the notion that being expected to do a job that aims at the mediocre (or worse) because it's profitable is never regarded as cause for termination of contract. Despite the reasonable tone, I'm not seeing anything but "Do what the boss wants and shut the fuck up!" 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

The tobacco industry's pushback is legendary, it was years and years before society as a whole embraced non-smoking.  My own high school was one of the ones that had a designated smoking area -- I think mostly to end the practice of sending teachers in bathrooms to police where all the smoking was going on.

I don't think Beth is Miguel's daughter because didn't one of them say they had known each other since she was 19 or something?  They would know each other from a younger age, I would think, if they were the kids of two best friends like Jack and Miguel. 

My high school had a separate smoking area back in the 90s. It was the unofficial smoking area and it was technically off campus (we had a closed campus) so kids were allowed to go there and smoke but there was always someone from campus there to make sure that kids went back to class when lunch/class breaks were over. I think it was the school's way of acknowledging that although we had a no smoking policy on campus, they knew kids were smoking and they'd rather offer a practical solution.

I might be remembering this incorrectly, but I thought that Randall said that he and Beth had been together for 17 years, which means they started dating when he was 19, but they could have met before then. If that's the case then it's possible she is Miguel's daughter and they knew each other as kids but they started dating in college. I'm not saying that I want that to happen, just that it's possible (but only if I'm remember that line correctly - if he said that they've known each other for 17 years then everything I just said is garbage!). I know it seems cliche/way too convenient for the storyline for their families to be THAT intertwined if Miguel is Beth's dad, but truth is stranger than fiction. I know two different instances where the parents divorced, married new spouses, and then the stepsiblings (who were teenagers when their parents married) ended up getting married. Crazy shit happens in real life, not just on tv!

8 hours ago, mojito said:

I was under the impression that Randall winced at the sight of his mother's visit because he wasn't ready to tell his mother that he had tracked down his bio father. But I tend to take most things at face value, which really helps to be sucked into plot twists (that, and not reading/researching/watching Hollywood showbiz material or watching previews at the end of sh

4 hours ago, breezy424 said:

I also don't think that Randall's reaction when grandma and grandpa knocked at the door necessarily had anything to do with animosity to Miquel.  It could have been just as much as about his biological father being there and having to explain this all.

It was ridiculous to show the exterior of a pretty large colonial style home and then have it only have three bedrooms?

I thought the same thing. So far we haven't heard Randall say anything negative about Jack or Rebecca which I assumed meant that even if he wasn't super close with them, he loved them and had a good relationship with them, which is why he would panic at the thought of Rebecca finding William in his house. He probably never told her that he was looking for his birth father because he didn't want to hurt her feelings or upset her. Even if she knew that he was searching, I'm pretty sure she has no idea that she found him and he's sleeping in one of the girls' bedrooms. I thought that was why Randall seemed panicked and uncomfortable when she arrived. Heh, or maybe, like me, he just loathes pop-ins!

As for the house, Beth mentioned that Randall renovated the house on his own after they bought it, so it's possible that they knocked down some walls to make the bedrooms bigger, thus eliminating how many rooms were upstairs. The master bedroom is big enough to fit a Nordictrac with room to spare. The kids are also old enough that Beth and Randall probably don't plan on having anymore so they could have converted what used to be extra bedrooms into an office for one of the parents, a playroom for the kids, a study/library (if I had an extra bedroom in my house, I would line it with bookshelves!), etc. Several people I know deliberately bought houses with more bedrooms than they needed so they could use the extra bedrooms for non-bedroom type stuff (an office/study is the most common but other people have used them for craft rooms, creating a giant closet, a separate workout room, that kind of thing).

7 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

In Midwest America in 1979, I had an emergency c- section, my friend delivered twins vaginally ( and got pregnant with medical assistance due to infertility with a extremely likely chance of multiples -she was relieved it was just twins). Also outdoor and indoor soccer programs were very popular  with my childern from kindergarten to jr high thru the YMCA.

One of my roommates was a triplet who was born in 1973. Her parents had a lot of trouble conceiving so they underwent fertility treatments. I know that many of us are offering anecdotal examples, but as someone said earlier, just because some of these things weren't as common back then doesn't mean they didn't happen. That doesn't necessarily make them anachronisms though. Similarly, someone thought Rebecca would have been more appropriate for a child born in 1979 than her mother, and while that may be true there were still adult women named Rebecca in the late 70s/early 80s. One of my relatives named Rebecca was born in 1960 so she was 19 the year that the twins were born, and it wasn't considered an unusual name when she was growing up.

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Wikipedia says Kate is Kevin's personal assistant. Hmm. We haven't seen any actual evidence of that. Yeah, you'd think she'd have been onset when he had his meltdown. At any rate, it doesn't seem like a great idea, being your brother's assistant. Or not, I don't know.

I can't think of a job I'd want less than being my brother's assistant. That is just a really bad idea all around.

10 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

 

It has EVERYTHING to do with money.  Kevin is the star of a hit TV show.  Even if his sitcom is the #3 sitcom on the network, it’s probably part of a hit lineup of shows that the network has likely invested millions of dollars in developing.  More importantly, the network is probably reaping many more millions, if not billions, in profit.  Now Kevin wants to jeopardize all that because he suddenly wants to be a “serious actor”? Please.  He better suck it up and go shirtless for 2 more years. 

https://priceonomics.com/the-economics-of-a-hit-tv-show/

I wouldn't mind Kevin just quitting his job if the network was willing to let him go easy. But it doesn't seem worth being sued and having a network executive get you blacklisted in Hollywood. He's pissing off his agent too. That's a pretty big sacrifice just for "principles." He doesn't like the job, but I'm sure he also won't like being broke and unemployed either. I just think it is short-sighted.

I wonder if they will really have him move to NY.  That would get him closer to Randall and Rebecca and they could share scenes. Kate looked horrified at the idea of him leaving though.

[zumpie]

  5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

The tobacco industry's pushback is legendary, it was years and years before society as a whole embraced non-smoking.  My own high school was one of the ones that had a designated smoking area -- I think mostly to end the practice of sending teachers in bathrooms to police where all the smoking was going on.

I don't think Beth is Miguel's daughter because didn't one of them say they had known each other since she was 19 or something?  They would know each other from a younger age, I would think, if they were the kids of two best friends like Jack and Miguel. 

My high school had a separate smoking area back in the 90s. It was the unofficial smoking area and it was technically off campus (we had a closed campus) so kids were allowed to go there and smoke but there was always someone from campus there to make sure that kids went back to class when lunch/class breaks were over. I think it was the school's way of acknowledging that although we had a no smoking policy on campus, they knew kids were smoking and they'd rather offer a practical solution.

I might be remembering this incorrectly, but I thought that Randall said that he and Beth had been together for 17 years, which means they started dating when he was 19, but they could have met before then. If that's the case then it's possible she is Miguel's daughter and they knew each other as kids but they started dating in college. I'm not saying that I want that to happen, just that it's possible (but only if I'm remember that line correctly - if he said that they've known each other for 17 years then everything I just said is garbage!). I know it seems cliche/way too convenient for the storyline for their families to be THAT intertwined if Miguel is Beth's dad, but truth is stranger than fiction. I know two different instances where the parents divorced, married new spouses, and then the stepsiblings (who were teenagers when their parents married) ended up getting married. Crazy shit happens in real life, not just on tv!

  10 hours ago, mojito said:

I was under the impression that Randall winced at the sight of his mother's visit because he wasn't ready to tell his mother that he had tracked down his bio father. But I tend to take most things at face value, which really helps to be sucked into plot twists (that, and not reading/researching/watching Hollywood showbiz material or watching previews at the end of sh

  6 hours ago, breezy424 said:

I also don't think that Randall's reaction when grandma and grandpa knocked at the door necessarily had anything to do with animosity to Miquel.  It could have been just as much as about his biological father being there and having to explain this all.

It was ridiculous to show the exterior of a pretty large colonial style home and then have it only have three bedrooms?

I thought the same thing. So far we haven't heard Randall say anything negative about Jack or Rebecca which I assumed meant that even if he wasn't super close with them, he loved them and had a good relationship with them, which is why he would panic at the thought of Rebecca finding William in his house. He probably never told her that he was looking for his birth father because he didn't want to hurt her feelings or upset her. Even if she knew that he was searching, I'm pretty sure she has no idea that she found him and he's sleeping in one of the girls' bedrooms. I thought that was why Randall seemed panicked and uncomfortable when she arrived. Heh, or maybe, like me, he just loathes pop-ins!

As for the house, Beth mentioned that Randall renovated the house on his own after they bought it, so it's possible that they knocked down some walls to make the bedrooms bigger, thus eliminating how many rooms were upstairs. The master bedroom is big enough to fit a Nordictrac with room to spare. The kids are also old enough that Beth and Randall probably don't plan on having anymore so they could have converted what used to be extra bedrooms into an office for one of the parents, a playroom for the kids, a study/library (if I had an extra bedroom in my house, I would line it with bookshelves!), etc. Several people I know deliberately bought houses with more bedrooms than they needed so they could use the extra bedrooms for non-bedroom type stuff (an office/study is the most common but other people have used them for craft rooms, creating a giant closet, a separate workout room, that kind of thing).

  9 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

In Midwest America in 1979, I had an emergency c- section, my friend delivered twins vaginally ( and got pregnant with medical assistance due to infertility with a extremely likely chance of multiples -she was relieved it was just twins). Also outdoor and indoor soccer programs were very popular  with my childern from kindergarten to jr high thru the YMCA.

One of my roommates was a triplet who was born in 1973. Her parents had a lot of trouble conceiving so they underwent fertility treatments. I know that many of us are offering anecdotal examples, but as someone said earlier, just because some of these things weren't as common back then doesn't mean they didn't happen. That doesn't necessarily make them anachronisms though. Similarly, someone thought Rebecca would have been more appropriate for a child born in 1979 than her mother, and while that may be true there were still adult women named Rebecca in the late 70s/early 80s. One of my relatives named Rebecca was born in 1960 so she was 19 the year that the twins were born, and it wasn't considered an unusual name when she was growing up.

The girls bedrooms looked pretty small. As, interestingly, did the "public" (living room and kitchen) spaces we've so far seen. Additionally, they already have elderly family close enough to visit (and seemingly prone to drop by unannounced), but far enough away (if still in Pittsburgh) to at least sometimes require staying overnight.

Most houses nowadays have at least 4 bedrooms, because that's what people want---their house is at least 4500 square feet, it wouldn't merely have 4 bedrooms, it was have separate guest suite in all likelihood. To say nothing of a den that could double as a guest room or a rumpus/family room. They merely inserted it for minor drama (or to trim the budget), while ignoring all the other options.

Interestingly, I've seen other shows do this: on early Parenthood, Lauren Graham spent a sleepless night trying to share a twin bed with Mae Whitman----even though her parents' house had plenty of sofas she could've slept on. On American Gothic, apparently Tessa's house only had ONE bedroom (despite her and husband both working and her coming from a hugely wealthy family), because when she was caring for her nephew, he had to sleep on their couch.

[zumpie]

  11 hours ago, zumpie said:

Regarding your gross generalization about "such people also abusing busboys"? I waited tables and worked in customer service jobs for the bulk of my life. People toiling for minimum wage in such positions are precisely the people who would happily switch places with kevin

I'm glad that you were treated the way you deserve. Also, the notion that being expected to do a job that aims at the mediocre (or worse) because it's profitable is never regarded as cause for termination of contract. Despite the reasonable tone, I'm not seeing anything but "Do what the boss wants and shut the fuck up!" 

Apparently you didn't read my post, because I didn't say that. I stated that I wouldn't abuse service personnel, because I've been one.

I also pointed out that if Kevin DOES feel he's mistreated, he needs to pursue that and complain (which he appears to be quite comfortable with doing, so I really don't think that's the issue)---t would additionally protect him if he is sued for breach of contract, because he had raised "hostile workplace' issues and they hadn't sought to address that.

Additionally, my entire point is that millions of people work at far less enjoyable jobs for far longer hours and way less pay, experience way more grief and suck it up because they'd like to eat and not live outdoors. He's an entitled, privileged artiste.

[zumpie]

Oh regarding stuff about fertility treatments: Even now (and it would be comparatively cheaper these days, in all likelihood) the average cost is over $12K. Jack and Rebecca seem to be very lower middle class (almost poor), so I can't see them having this sort of $$$. But, TBF, it wouldn't be the only plot hole we've seen (if that is how Rebecca was pregnant with multiples)

[Guest]

On 9/28/2016 at 2:55 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah that felt like the show's bad attempt at humor and I do mean bad. Maybe if the show was set in the 60's or something, where every unhealthy condition was considered a mental condition, I could maybe buy this. But in 2016, an woman suffering from body dysmorphia and anorexia would not be in a support group for overweight people. She would be in a support group for anorexia. 

Someone already mentioned this but if that was a Weight Watchers type meeting, all are welcome.  Well, you need to be 5 lbs. overweight to join but you can go for life after that, if you choose.  And they do encourage people at goal weight to keep going.  

On 9/29/2016 at 7:55 AM, Lady Calypso said:

I rewatched a couple of times. It's definitely 3 hours each way. Beth makes a point of saying that he's gone all day, and if they live in New Jersey, it would make sense as to why William might be away from the house for hours and it would make sense as to why Beth would buy the story. If it was only three hours each day, she wouldn't have let him off on his cat story. I'm positive he does more than just feed his cat (he might spent some time with the cat, but also he has time to do other things), but him traveling back and forth gives him an excuse for not being around until later at night. 

My theory is that guy is not even William whoever.  Randall went to some door and when it opened he didn't even wait for a reply.  He blurted out, "William (whoever)?  I'm your bio son."  The first thing I thought was whoever this loser is he's going to run with it, given Randall's ritzy car in plain sight.  So I think the cat, the cancer (maybe) and even his identity is bullshit.  Randall's going to make a cause of this guy then find out he's just some grifter that snowed them all.

On 9/29/2016 at 5:14 PM, slasherboy said:

Why do they keep referring to Randall as the "little brother" when they're triplets?  

Because it's cute... Born the same day, but one was first.  Har har, so clever.  Some of the jokes are just cringeworthy.  I was almost out at "Manny out." 

[MaryPatShelby]

On 9/29/2016 at 2:56 PM, zumpie said:

Oh also----OTHER anachronisms I just realized:

36 was OLD to be a first time dad in 1980. Ditto 32 (Mandy Moore's real age) to be a first time mom. Especially since they had met 8 years earlier.

Rebecca would've been more the name Mandy Moore gave to Kate, because it was a super popular name in the 1970's for kids born in the 1970's as someone born in the late 40's/early 50's, Mandy woud've been named Jane/Susan/Donna/Connie, etc.....

Rebecca (and names like Samantha and Augusta) was viewed in much the same way we'd view something like "Edith", an old lady name....

I'm a little confused by the dates you referenced too, but as the mother of a Rebecca born in 1986 I had no idea it was an old lady name.  Neither did several people in our town either.....mine was the only "Becky" while she had many classmates called "Becca" which was all the rage at that time. Maybe it was just a regional thing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/29/2016 at 8:39 PM, La Traviata said:

People are so afraid of fat shaming that they live in their own self-imposed make believe, pretend land that they're "cool" with their bodies the way they are, when they're not.  In fact, I suspect any minute now someone will chime into this thread proclaiming that I don't know what I'm talking about, because THEY are perfectly fine with being overweight, and THEY wouldn't change a thing.  I'm not buying it.  

I have never met one person like this.

Shaming fat people for not being ashamed enough that they're fat.  That's a new one for me.

As an overweight woman, I've had several men in my life tell me I'm fat.   Do you really think anyone lets a fat person forget how they look?  Because I really don't think that they do.

Most women I know - if not every single one - look great to me and yet constantly want to improve.  That's been my experience.  Honestly I think I would like to live in this fantasy world where women could possibly be okay with how they look.  Maybe in a few decades that might happen.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Haleth]

16 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

I thought that it was going to reveal that Rebecca and Miguel were having an affair in 1980s time

The poor woman has three infants.  She wouldn't have the time or energy for an affair!  She probably just wants to sleep.  LOL

[ClareWalks]

The easiest way for a woman to get pregnant with triplets in the late 70s would be by taking Clomid. It's a hell of a drug. It was available back then and would have probably been pretty damn cheap (it is dirt cheap today). It is a course of pills that works by creating an artificial estrogen deficit, which ramps up the body's estrogen production, then after ovulation it slingshots the other way and ramps up progesterone production. A woman could definitely release three eggs by using that. So they could have sought fertility treatments, even without being rich back then, and been handed Clomid and POOF.

[zumpie]

  On 9/29/2016 at 0:56 PM, zumpie said:

Oh also----OTHER anachronisms I just realized:

36 was OLD to be a first time dad in 1980. Ditto 32 (Mandy Moore's real age) to be a first time mom. Especially since they had met 8 years earlier.

Rebecca would've been more the name Mandy Moore gave to Kate, because it was a super popular name in the 1970's for kids born in the 1970's as someone born in the late 40's/early 50's, Mandy woud've been named Jane/Susan/Donna/Connie, etc.....

Rebecca (and names like Samantha and Augusta) was viewed in much the same way we'd view something like "Edith", an old lady name....

I'm a little confused by the dates you referenced too, but as the mother of a Rebecca born in 1986 I had no idea it was an old lady name.  Neither did several people in our town either.....mine was the only "Becky" while she had many classmates called "Becca" which was all the rage at that time. Maybe it was just a regional thing.

No, by 1986, it was popular. I'm referring to the 1950's. However, quite a few people have indicated it WAS popular in the 50's

[candall]

19 hours ago, izabella said:

I still love this show, and am so happy it's on.  I differ from most people here and I really like Toby.  He offers some fun and light-hearted joie de vive to Kate, who seems to be in a dark place right now, just after her birthday when most of us take a minute to consider how happy we are or aren't.  I'm also happy that they are focusing on Kate's weight, because it seems very realistic that it would be a struggle for her and I think they're handling it in an interesting way.  It's only the second episode so I will give them a chance to show us more of her life and character in future episodes.

The flashback in this episode set up some interesting background for the characters.  I get Randall's intensity about being "good" and "perfect" and love that this is his back-story.  Kids who grew up with parents that have high expectations of them for whatever reason internalize a lot of stress in order to live up to those expectations of perfection. 

And, so glad that William is feeding his cat!  I am a cat lover, so that makes me happy, lol.

I agree with all this.  I like Toby very much, and cats!  And it seems fine to have made Kate's weight the primary focus of her character so far--they've only had two episodes to establish a large cast.  We can spend Kate-time watching her feud with the neighbors who won't recycle later.  (There's a brand new legal drama where posters are rolling their eyes after Episode Two because the guy has yet to lose a case.)

 

 I don't understand why everyone's guessing about the mystery of Missing Jack.  I thought they did everything but paint an A on Jack's forehead to show that he was getting way too fond of the cocktails.

 

Two episodes, two twists, both pretty good.  I expect to see presumed-dead Jack walk in one day, but weekly jaw-droppers would be a lot of pressure and inevitably produce some fails.  The writing is above-average, though, and I do love a twist, so twist me if you can.

 

With the only set of twins I know intimately, older/younger is a big part of their dynamic.  Like, too big.  It almost seems like the rationale for some sort of self-fulfilling destiny that has made them also leader/follower, shrewd/naïve, stonger/weaker, successful/not-so-much.  There's seldom a break in the pattern, which makes me sad.  I'm a fan of that mother (above) who didn't tell her twins their birth order.

Edited October 1, 2016 by candall

[zumpie]

The easiest way for a woman to get pregnant with triplets in the late 70s would be by taking Clomid. It's a hell of a drug. It was available back then and would have probably been pretty damn cheap (it is dirt cheap today). It is a course of pills that works by creating an artificial estrogen deficit, which ramps up the body's estrogen production, then after ovulation it slingshots the other way and ramps up progesterone production. A woman could definitely release three eggs by using that. So they could have sought fertility treatments, even without being rich back then, and been handed Clomid and POOF.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_fertility-drug-clomiphene_6186.bc

Not that cheap, especially if you factor in increased visits to the doctor's office and clearly their rather lowish income status---and something insurance at the time (which was structured completely differently, anyway) would've cover. Additionally, less than 1% of users had triplets, with only 5-12% having twins.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think I see them as lowish income, not from what we've seen of their house and clothes.  They look solidly middle class to me.  Back in my repro years, I knew a few women, also middle class, who took the drug with success.  And my family has several sets of twins, no drugs.  So far we don't know how long they'd been trying, if there were previous miscarriages, etc.  We might find out soon because

Spoiler

an episode title contains a name, which some have speculated would have been the third triplet's name, but may relate to a previous baby.

[La Traviata]

I'd like to join the club of people who thinks something's fishy about William.  I don't believe he's feeding a cat, at least not ONLY feeding a cat.  I think he's up to something else.  In fact, I'm not even sure he's dying or that he's truly Randall's father, ...but back to the cat.  From a writer's standpoint, why put that in the story if that's all it is?  Jaunting off to feed a cat brings nothing to the table.  Plus, doesn't the city they live in have pet boarding?  It would be less costly or more convenient to move the cat closer to Randall's house or to relocate William and the cat closer to Randall if Beth doesn't want William to move in.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I really don't see whatever low-income status others are seeing. Things we know about Jack and Rebecca:

1. Jack wears a tie to work, implying a white collar office job. 

2. Rebecca is a full-time housewife. 

3. They own a home with at least three bedrooms, pretty standard for the 80's. 

4. Jack can afford, financially at least, to go several rounds at the bar on what appears to be a regular basis. He can also buy a gold necklace for his wife on a whim. She doesn't mention the cost when she's taking him to task for his absence. 

Everything I see points to resolutely middle-class 1980's America. 

[zumpie]

I really don't see whatever low-income status others are seeing. Things we know about Jack and Rebecca:

1. Jack wears a tie to work, implying a white collar office job. 

2. Rebecca is a full-time housewife. 

3. They own a home with at least three bedrooms, pretty standard for the 80's. 

4. Jack can afford, financially at least, to go several rounds at the bar on what appears to be a regular basis. He can also buy a gold necklace for his wife on a whim. She doesn't mention the cost when she's taking him to task for his absence. 

Everything I see points to resolutely middle-class 1980's America. 

1) Actually it was implied Jack works somehow in construction as a supervisor, that doesn't necessarily pay all THAT great (especially then). And plenty of office jobs pay like crap. Just because he wears a tie (as some jobs still mandated "back in the day" doesn't mean he's well compensated.

2) As were/are many other women. Particularly working class white women tend to (even now) be SAHMs more often than not (despite their family needing the money far more than better off counterparts). A spouse not working isn't always the sole indicator of the other spouse's ability to provide. Childcare would be prohibitive for three kids, BTW.

3) A) We don't know they own it, we just know they live in it. B) It's a dilapidated dump (and I say this as someone who likes older homes and lives in one). The cabinets are all scuffed up and dingy, there's little furniture and what's there is also old and worn. The rooms are generally minimally decorated and the kids seem to not have much stuff. Everyone's clothes look worn, faded and old.

4) My step-father was a raging alcoholic and thus frequently unemployed----he still managed to find the $$$ for drinking AND both he and my mom were pot heads. Even when we had no food (and were eventually evicted when they failed to pay the rent for almost a year/routinely had our electricity and phone shut off, etc), there was always money for that (it's called being an addict). Just because they had the cash that day to cover things doesn't mean they didn't regularly pay their rent late.

He could've run a tab at the bar (if you're a regular not unusual) or opened an instant credit account at Sears. Plus, she probably liked the necklace, so was willing to overlook that----and she's fiscally irresponsible enough to NOT get a part time job (which wouldn't incur childcare costs) to help out with the bills. Or to even paint or polish (or have Jack do so) the cabinets.

And this is all in a fairly low income/low cost, rust belt city.

I actually thought the set designers and costumers did an excellent job of depicting them as very lower middle class, not being able to quite make ends meet even at that and the pressures sending Jack to crawl into a bottle.

[Duke2801]

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

The poor woman has three infants.  She wouldn't have the time or energy for an affair!  She probably just wants to sleep.  LOL

They weren't infants at that time.  They were 8. 

[Negritude]

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 9:37 AM, mojito said:

An aside: I look at William, I see Marvin Gaye. The whole time.

I see Bubbles from "The Wire. "

[DollEyes]

Two for two. This Is Us got off to a great start and this episode proves that last week's premiere wasn't just a fluke. If the premiere showed the foundations of Kevin, Kate & Randall's family, this episode showed some of the cracks. Rebecca struggled with being a mom in general and being Kate's mom in particular, especially where Kate's weight was concerned. Case in point: the cantaloupe. Rebecca was trying to help Kate, but she accidentally hurt her. Seeing the boys get sugary cereal while she got cantaloupe and cottage cheese probably made Kate feel even worse about herself than she already did, which Jack noticed, hence his putting the cereal on top of Kate's breakfast, which may have helped Kate, but it hurt Rebecca by undermining her authority. Another thing that hurt Rebecca was Jack's drinking, which not only she noticed, it caught the attention of Miguel, Jack's best friend/Rebecca's future husband, who clearly had feelings for her when he started singing Rebecca's praises to Jack, who already knew how great she was, but when Miguel complemented Rebecca's ass, I knew he wanted her all along. When Rebecca confronted Jack about her fears re motherhood and his drinking, Jack listened. As for what happened to Jack, I think he died, hopefully not alcohol-related. 

  Re Kate & Toby, I like them. Toby can be obnoxious at times, but I think that's just a defense mechanism. I also think that Toby does care for Kate, in his own way. When Kate snapped at the support group meeting Toby helped her vent her true feelings and convinced her to go to that party at Kevin's agent's house, where Kate had a better time than expected and a much better time than Kevin, who was forced to go to the party to kiss both his agent and the network president's asses, which he ultimately refused to do. About Kevin's quitting, IMO, it's complicated. While Kevin did agree to do the show of his own free will, if the writer was as talented as he used to be, Kevin probably wouldn't have quit in the first place. However, maybe Kevin should have stayed a little while longer and started a stealth campaign with Kate to get the show canceled-which, unless it was getting like, say, Everybody Loves Raymond-type ratings and/or award-season buzz, will happen way sooner than later anyway. 

Randall & Beth are everything! For my money, they're the best thing about a great show. Beth is a loving, devoted wife and mother-and when necessary, brutally honest and protective, as shown in the scenes when she confronted Randall about William and later confronted William himself. As for Randall, Sterling K. Brown is incredible. He's funny, smart, vulnerable and he's fine.  As that shirtless treadmill scene proved, when it comes to hotness, SKB definitely gives Justin Hartley a run for his money. 

Edited October 1, 2016 by DollEyes