Season 3 Discussion

[Unclejosh]

Thanks for the response. My point was that as I have been put down for not being handy and called not a man as a result the wording just caught me off guard.  If it had been worded as something like "I appreciate that my partner knows how to fix things so we don't have to spend money on stuff that we can do" it wouldn't have stuck a chord.  I read it as women like men who do "men" things like fix stuff which as I stated is probably me being oversensitive to my specific situation.  I loved that my ex did all that stuff.  She still does it now with her new husband.  But I was ridiculed by family and friends for years about it.  It is one of the reasons I am still single now as I don't feel I have much to offer as I do not fit the stereotypical "male" gender role with regards to fixing things or doing all the typical stuff boyfriends/husband have historically done.  I wasn't attempting to call you out or anything.  I apologize if I offended. 

Totally agree about the snootiness from the characters on the show.  

[OnceSane]

I loved the convo between Bow & her dad, it resonated so much with me.  And I thought the show handled Bow's issues extremely well.  And I like that Johan was a good support while not sugar-coating it.  

And Charlie as the "white woman whisperer"?  I died.  And resurrected in time to die again when Bow's brother AND dad wanted to basically throw Junior a parade for having a girlfriend.

I'm scared and hopeful that the Johan/Ruby hookup will happen.

[Traveller519]

Yes! Yes! Yes! This episode was firing on all cylinders. I don't recall them using Bow for narration before (I only really started watching in Season 2), but that worked so well. It let Dre play more comic relief than lead and that gave us some of the best moments. His interactions with Bow and everything that happened at the office. I was laughing out loud throughout that.

Ruby and Johan had some great interaction too, and filtering it all through Bow was excellent. Even the tiny subplot worked well.

I also learned some things from this episode with Bow's history mixed-race people in America. I only found out a couple years ago that Mulato was considered an offensive term, but I didn't understand why. It sounded like a Starbucks drink with milk in it, which kind of worked. Needless to say, I appreciate when the show teaches me some things.

Let's get more other character narration episodes!

[DearEvette]

58 minutes ago, OnceSane said:

And resurrected in time to die again when Bow's brother AND dad wanted to basically throw Junior a parade for having a girlfriend.

I loved this!  Neither one of them even asked anything about the girl.  They were just so happy he had a girlfriend at all cracked me up.  "He wears capes"   (oh God I am still laughing about this!)

Edited December 1, 2016 by DearEvette

[DearEvette]

4 hours ago, greekmom said:

Dre acting all "British proper" when the Microsoft woman was around. 

Oh but that was just the first time, he became faux-Irish the second time "Top o' the mornin' to ya'"

I forgot to mention, but just as much as I liked this Stevens, I also like this Dre.  No self centered man-child in sight.

Edited December 1, 2016 by DearEvette

[Dee]

I hated the Bow story. It felt like an excuse to discuss the biracial/multiracial issue without really digging into the problem.

The conclusion was, something I can't see hyper neurotic Rainbow not already having worked through,  with parents as warm as Paul and candid as D'Alicia.

The infinitely more interesting route for the show to haven taken would've been for Rainbow to be angry because Junior brought home a white girl, not because it triggers her issues with her biracial heritage but her feeling that him choosing a non Black girlfriend was him actively rejecting her, especially given how close they are.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Dee

[Tiger]

20 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Oh but that was just the first time, he became faux-Irish the second time "Top o' the mornin' to ya'"

I forgot to mention, but just as much as I liked this Stevens, I also like this Dre.  No self centered man-child in sight.

I wish I could give your post a thousand 'likes'.  Whoever wrote this episode wrote every single character as a character and not a cartoon, and it was refreshing. 

[spaceytraci1208]

5 hours ago, monakane said:

"The White Walker, Snow J Pimpson , Anglo-Saxon Jackson, John Mayer but not Dave Matthews"   Charlie, please don't ever leave us again!

I loved this episode especially Bow's talk with her father.

Anglo-Saxon Jackson was my favorite!  

[tennisgurl]

Wow, funny lines, a Bow narrations, AND the characters actually acting like people and not like cartoon cut outs? Can we keep this writer around for awhile? 

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

 

This one had me laughing right out the gate!  What a good one.  Poor Jack and his 'C'

They let Steven go back to just being a clueless rich white privileged guy and not a frothing racist.  His 'You know how I get women, I say that's my jet' was perfect.  This Stevens is the one we like, not that other guy.

 

Yes! The work scenes were actually funny again because Stevens was just a clueless rich guy, not the world most over the top racist. I especially loved how everyone got all moved by Dres big Don Draper moment, only for the software lady to be like "what the hell?" when they were all cheering. Thanks God Lord Snow was there to save the day. Oh Charlie, never leave us again.

I was kind of amused watching this, as I am about to start getting ready to go on my (white girl self) fourth date with a really great (black) guy, although sadly our Dothraki is a bit rusty. I did like Bow getting to be the one who has to figure stuff out, instead of Dre. I wonder if Juniors new girlfriend will stick around, and if Bow will be cool with her now. And I can never get enough Beau Bridges. He needs to be on everything. 

God help me, I am both dreading and praying for a Ruby/Johan. I wont tell you which one is more prominent. 

[Quickbeam]

Just rewatched...."clean urine?". So funny. 

[charmed1]

I'm cracking up that Ruby's wig was identical to Bow's hair this week. 

Thank goodness for credits because for the life of me, I still can't tell the difference between Beau Bridges and Ryan O'Neal.

I was trying to catch all the celebrities in the little animation portion. I caught Derek Jeter (ha!), Chiwetel, Levar, Roger G. Smith, Jasmine and Halle on the plantation portion. It just dawned on me that they were all in Birth of a Nation, Roots, 12 Years a Slave, and Queen. Duh. 

I saw Kathleen Cleaver storming up the middle of the civil rights portion. Hee.

I think the writers purposely threw that little school house rock on miscegenation education in there specifically for the viewership that declare "they're never watching again! *tears* when the writers dare broach the subject of race or blackness from the perspective of black people. (Because blackness is only acceptable if it's filtered through Norman Lear.) Most black people know why many of us vary in hue.

Edited December 2, 2016 by charmed1

[mtlchick]

Quote

 I could have lived without the beyond obvious Microsoft Surface commercial 

Especially since we've seen the family hooked on their Apple products. 

I enjoyed it!  I always liked their animation moments and it was nice to have Tracee do the narration.  Not to mention they dialed back on Stevens on being a full blown racist and back to being a clueless white guy.

Ruby hitting on Jonah is so creepy, you can't help BUT laugh.

Aside: my sister and I loved the change up in Zoe's and Diane's hair.

Finally, NEVER LEAVE US AGAIN DEAN COLE!

Edited December 2, 2016 by mtlchick

[hendersonrocks]

Quote

The infinitely more interesting route for the show to haven taken would've been for Rainbow to be angry because Junior brought home a white girl, not because it triggers her issues with her biracial heritage but her feeling that him choosing a non Black girlfriend was him actively rejecting her, especially given how close they are.

I thought there were aspects of this "more interesting route" present, actually. Wasn't it Johan who basically said this to her - or was it Ruby? I can't remember, but I felt like it was touched on - though certainly not as much as Bow's struggle with her own identity. Which, side note, the flashbacks to her high school and college years were everything awful and amazing all at once.

Daveed Diggs is so wonderful. I love seeing him onscreen.

Excellent episode overall - totally agree it feels like the strongest one this year.  

[Dee]

9 minutes ago, hendersonrocks said:

I thought there were aspects of this "more interesting route" present, actually. Wasn't it Johan who basically said this to her - or was it Ruby? I can't remember, but I felt like it was touched on - though certainly not as much as Bow's struggle with her own identity.

Ruby asks her how she can have a problem with Junior bringing home a white girl because, to quote Ruby, Rainbow is "a white!" Which Rainbow doesn't answer because the show cuts directly to its miscegenation animation.

Johan and Rainbow's conversation isn't even really about Junior's girlfriend as much as it's about how confused Rainbow feels/felt because she didn't know how to reconcile her mixed heritage. Johan basically tells her he had a similar struggle but after some self inventory, he made peace with everything which Rainbow never did. She just overcompensated by veering to various ends of the racial spectrum when she felt the situation called for it.

[attica]

I adored Daveed's face when accused of having bangs: the shock and hurt of it all!

'Anglo-Saxon Jackson' will be my next license plate. 

Add me to the pile dreading and desiring Joby/Ruhan.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I love Charlie.

Hmmm, not particularly glad to see Wanda back. Hope it was just a one-off.

Re Mr. & Mrs. Loving, allegedly she was of mixed racial descent and actually claimed her Native American ancestry versus her Black one. I don't know if the anti-miscegenation laws also applied to Native Americans but presumably she was legally regarded as non-White either way.

It appears that Diane has grown noticeably taller than Jack, as young girls her age often do versus the little boys. The show is doing some interesting camera angles to try to hide it.

Nice burn on Steve Harvey.

OMG, Dre did a PowerPoint slide with WordArt. That's a rookie move.

I'm surprised Bow didn't mention Ruby's wig since it was basically a smaller version of Bow's natural hair. Maybe that would've been too on-the-nose.

Quote

I only found out a couple years ago that Mulato was considered an offensive term, but I didn't understand why. It sounded like a Starbucks drink with milk in it

A few years ago Dunkin Donuts introduced a frozen drink called the Coolatta and a lot of people were not thrilled about it, especially since one of the flavors is a mixture of coffee and milk. They didn't back down though and are still successfully  selling the drinks with that name despite what some consider to be a questionable connotation.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Joimiaroxeu

[xander874]

Count me in as glad that everyone was normal and not OTT this episode. I liked this. And the Ruby/Johan stuff was awesom: "I think this is going to happen and I can't stop it".  But the scene with Bow and her dad was great. This show addresses "issues" well and I loved it. Even the work stuff didn't annoy me too much.

But there is no way that room redo cost only $62. Still, liked the change.

[Quickbeam]

I loved the repeated references to Junior's cape. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, xander874 said:

But there is no way that room redo cost only $62. Still, liked the change.

More like $1062, though that may be on the low side.  The textiles alone. . . .

[LBS]

I loved this episode and especially the visual of Ruby biting the apple from Johan's hand.   It makes me laugh every time I remember it.

[megsara]

14 hours ago, hendersonrocks said:

but her feeling that him choosing a non Black girlfriend was him actively rejecting her, especially given how close they are.

Isn't that the realization she comes to though, with help from her dad?  It seemed like her identity issues were taking the priority in her mind, so her dad being a more objective 3rd party pointing this out made sense to me.  She's been dealing with issues related to being biracial her whole life.  Junior having a girlfriend, and however that may reflect on what he thinks of his mother, is a much newer experience.  

Loved the episode - funny and thought-provoking.  I hope we at least get a hint of whether Johan/Ruby happened.  I LOVED that at the end he was the one seeking her out.  

[Dee]

3 minutes ago, megsara said:

Isn't that the realization she comes to though, with help from her dad? 

It is, but I thought it'd be more interesting to make it a Rainbow and Junior issue, instead of Bow having to go on a Vision Quest to reconcile her self image.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 minutes ago, megsara said:

14 hours ago, hendersonrocks said:

but her feeling that him choosing a non Black girlfriend was him actively rejecting her, especially given how close they are.

Isn't that the realization she comes to though, with help from her dad?  It seemed like her identity issues were taking the priority in her mind, so her dad being a more objective 3rd party pointing this out made sense to me.  She's been dealing with issues related to being biracial her whole life.  Junior having a girlfriend, and however that may reflect on what he thinks of his mother, is a much newer experience.  

I thought Bow's father might say that he hadn't felt that her choosing a non-white husband was a rejection of him (although since he had also chosen a black spouse, I suppose that might not have made sense.)

[megsara]

13 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I thought Bow's father might say that he hadn't felt that her choosing a non-white husband was a rejection of him

I was actually trying to remember what Dre's reaction was to Zoe's white boyfriend (there was some blond guy that lasted a couple eps, right?) , but the brain hasn't been as reliable since 11/8!!  

I enjoyed Bow's exploration of herself, her identity and race - it's not something I've seen tackled much before, especially on network TV.  

Edited December 2, 2016 by megsara

[shura]

30 minutes ago, megsara said:

Isn't that the realization she comes to though, with help from her dad?  It seemed like her identity issues were taking the priority in her mind, so her dad being a more objective 3rd party pointing this out made sense to me.  She's been dealing with issues related to being biracial her whole life.  Junior having a girlfriend, and however that may reflect on what he thinks of his mother, is a much newer experience.   

If Bow felt that Junior choosing a white girlfriend is a rejection of her, wouldn't that imply that she really has no identity issues? Shouldn't she have known right then and there that she identifies as black?

Also, Junior is biracial too, isn't he? By way of having a white grandfather?

You are right, it really is thought-provoking.

[megsara]

25 minutes ago, shura said:

If Bow felt that Junior choosing a white girlfriend is a rejection of her, wouldn't that imply that she really has no identity issues? Shouldn't she have known right then and there that she identifies as black?

Though she didn't really come to that realization until the end, when her dad pointed it out.  Along that line, the only possible flaw I personally thought of was that Bow’s dad came off as a little too wise and all knowing, but maybe that was some subtle twist on the “magical Negro” trope?  

And I know it made sense in that Dre wasn’t around many white people growing up but it still made me a little sad that Bow’s father was the first and last white man to ever hug him!

[Arcadiasw]

Wow. This was season one writing here. With the jokes about Bo's hair, I wonder if Ruby made that wig using Bo's hair.

So many good stuff from Bo's narration to an actual funny office subplot. More of this and less of the racist office commentary please.

[spaceytraci1208]

1 hour ago, Arcadiasw said:

Wow. This was season one writing here. With the jokes about Bo's hair, I wonder if Ruby made that wig using Bo's hair.

 

Oh snap! That would be hilarious and there should definitely be callbacks to it!

[emma675]

I hope this episode gets nominated for all of the awards. It was hilarious, thought provoking, educational and entertaining--I wish whoever wrote this (and I'm kicking myself for not seeing who it was in the credits) could write all of the episodes.

[For Cereals]

While I thought the show was funny, I think I'm in the minority on this because it seems totally out of character to me for Bow.  I could see the attitude coming from Dre as being more believable especially given his hostility towards her family in previous episodes, which I found to be OTT because he's married to Bow.

Wanda can leave anytime...

[Dee]

I'm highly amused by Johan and Ruby's flirtations, but I also find it kind of icky since she's still in a fairly committed relationship Super Hot Davis.

[peeayebee]

On 12/1/2016 at 7:04 AM, DearEvette said:

When Bow saw Megan for the first time and the Ironside theme played and everything went into slo-motion I cracked up because it reminded me of the movie Kill Bill. Everytime the Bride (Uma Thurman) saw one of her enemies she went into a red-fugue state with the Ironside theme.

Ohhhh. Thanks. I couldn't figure out why the Ironside theme was playing. I'd forgotten about its use in Kill Bill.

 

On 12/1/2016 at 6:35 PM, charmed1 said:

I was trying to catch all the celebrities in the little animation portion. I caught Derek Jeter (ha!), Chiwetel, Levar, Roger G. Smith, Jasmine and Halle on the plantation portion. It just dawned on me that they were all in Birth of a Nation, Roots, 12 Years a Slave, and Queen. Duh. 

I was paying so much attention to the celebrities in the cartoon that I didn't catch all of what Bow was saying.

 

23 hours ago, hendersonrocks said:

Daveed Diggs is so wonderful. I love seeing him onscreen. 

I still haven't warmed to him. I know I'm in the minority, but I just don't think he's good here. 

I loved the beginning with the kids coming in with different announcements:

Diane: Look! I'm off the no-fly list.

Jack: Look! I got a C!
Dre: That's a D, baby.

Junior and Megan speaking Dothraki was cute. I also liked the bit when Ruby was talking about a woman not noticing her hair getting cut, then Bow says, "What?" and Ruby says, "Huh?" 

Charlie had lots of great lines. Besides the ones already mentioned, I loved when he glares at Dre and says, "I wish we was in jail so I could shank you."

However, I have to admit that I didn't love this ep. There were a lot of funny parts, but Bow's conflict felt odd to me, like it didn't fit with the rest of the ep or was of a different tone... I don't know. Maybe I need to rewatch. Maybe I'm just not used to Bow being the center of the ep, and without Dre around. Oh, and there wasn't enough Junior.

[Jade Foxx]

11 hours ago, shura said:

Also, Junior is biracial too, isn't he? By way of having a white grandfather?

Annndd this is where it gets murky. One drop rule and all that. I generally think of biracial meaning "two parents of different races." 

Otherwise, most black Americans would qualify as biracial. Majority of us have some "mixture" somewhere in the family tree. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Possibly my all time favorite line from Charlie: I wish we were in jail so I could shank you.

Things I loved: Dre curtseying to the Microsoft lady, Ruby talking about cutting Rainbow's hair as she slept, Bow's Clueless flashback, Ruby telling Johan that they're not related.

My nitpick/complaint: there is no way that Zoe could have done all that redecorating in Jack and Diane's room with $62. I mean, cheap throw pillows at Target cost $5-10 each.

[Tiger]

12 hours ago, emma675 said:

I hope this episode gets nominated for all of the awards. It was hilarious, thought provoking, educational and entertaining--I wish whoever wrote this (and I'm kicking myself for not seeing who it was in the credits) could write all of the episodes.

Im still waiting for an explanation of how Jenifer wasnt even nominated for last season.  She continues to kill every line, facial expression, everything.  

11 hours ago, Dee said:

I'm highly amused by Johan and Ruby's flirtations, but I also find it kind of icky since she's still in a fairly committed relationship Super Hot Davis.

Im simultaneously and somewhat paradoxically horrified and intrigued.

[Quickbeam]

Jenifer Lewis is pitch perfect as Ruby. Never a false note. I also love the awkward dance between Ruby and Johan. And that he can verbalize it is completely wrong but he may not be able to stop it. So funny. 

[teebax]

I finally got to watch this episode and now I'm mad at myself for whatever it was I chose to do instead when it aired. The show has been hit or miss for me this season, but I loved this episode.

I have a biracial niece who lives with the black side of her family and has no relationship with her white father and his family. She has had many of the identity struggles Bow mentioned. It just felt true to life for me.

The office scenes were great, although I still miss the sad sack lady who got fired. I love Wanda, but she adds nothing to this show for me.

Also, I loved Bow as narrator. Dre gets on my damn nerves sometimes. 

[Calamity Jane]

On 12/1/2016 at 7:04 AM, DearEvette said:

This one had me laughing right out the gate!  What a good one.  Poor Jack and his 'C'

They let Steven go back to just being a clueless rich white privileged guy and not a frothing racist.  His 'You know how I get women, I say that's my jet' was perfect.  This Stevens is the one we like, not that other guy.

Charlie, of course is the MVP.  Snow J. Pimpson!  Ha!

When Bow saw Megan for the first time and the Ironside theme played and everything went into slo-motion I cracked up because it reminded me of the movie Kill Bill. Everytime the Bride (Uma Thurman) saw one of her enemies she went into a red-fugue state with the Ironside theme.

Sending you such a huge thank you that I finally know where that music in Kill Bill came from!  I always knew it was familiar, but I don't think I would ever have thought of Ironside.  :-D  And it was so effective in this episode to show us Bow's reaction to the girlfriend. 

[needschocolate]

Was that TER playing Bow in the High School and College flashbacks?  She looked the right age.

I was surprised that Megan's age never came up when Bow was trying to find reasons not to like her (before admitting that it because she's white).  Megan must be a senior - same grade as Zoey. Is Junior a sophomore?

I don't think anyone has mentioned Megan and Junior discussing how they met (not the exact quote) - 

Megan: A bunch of freshmen were taking his backpack

Junior: You should have seen her tell those girls off

On 12/2/2016 at 11:57 PM, Jade Foxx said:

Annndd this is where it gets murky. One drop rule and all that. I generally think of biracial meaning "two parents of different races." 

Otherwise, most black Americans would qualify as biracial. Majority of us have some "mixture" somewhere in the family tree. 

Per Dictionary.com, there are two definitions:

Quote

 

1.consisting of, representing, or combining members of two separateracial groups:

a biracial committee on neighborhood problems.

2.having a biological mother from one racial group and a biologicalfather from another:

She's proudly biracial.

 

The first one applies to things, the second to people, so your interpretation is correct.  

"Murky" is right - What if Ruby or Pops was white, then Dre would also be biracial, and the kids would be 50% Black and 50% White, but not be biracial

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, needschocolate said:

I was surprised that Megan's age never came up when Bow was trying to find reasons not to like her (before admitting that it because she's white).  Megan must be a senior - same grade as Zoey. Is Junior a sophomore?

That's a good point. It also means that Megan won't be around for long.

Edited December 4, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[attica]

Fun fact: the Ironside theme was written and performed by Quincy Jones!

[qtpye]

On 12/3/2016 at 2:57 AM, Jade Foxx said:

Annndd this is where it gets murky. One drop rule and all that. I generally think of biracial meaning "two parents of different races." 

Otherwise, most black Americans would qualify as biracial. Majority of us have some "mixture" somewhere in the family tree. 

It gets even weirder then that.  Many African Americans families would proudly proclaim having Native American or "Indian" in them.  Turns out most of the "Indian" blood is actually white or European blood.   The picture you have of your light skinned great auntie with the straight black hair, was actually a mixed with white people, not natives. This was a problem because "Native" blood was noble, while white blood was a symbol of degradation and rape.

The history of race in America is confusing and complicated.

[OnceSane]

Quote

Zoey is college-bound, so Dre sets out to create the best family Christmas ever, even having Johan and his best friend, Gigi, over for the celebration. Meanwhile, Bow babysits Gigi's newborn and remembers just how difficult mothering a baby is.

[Runningwild]

Lasted all of 15 seconds. The Bushes and the Mannings are not definitions of nepotism. The Kennedys might qualify as JFK made RFK his AG. 

[spaceytraci1208]

Dre can be annoying, but I don't think I've ever found him insufferable until tonight.

[Michel]

Bow wasn't kidding when she called Dre a "man-baby."  He proves himself as such almost every week.

Junior's storyline was my favorite this week, and Johan was used just right this time.  Though I have to say, as mad as Jack and Diane were at him at the end, he was right that he did the right thing.  That Pizza Possum looked terrible.  But even Bow being mad enough at him to throw something at him?  That was funny, but also a bit over the line for me.

Zoey doing well shouldn't be a surprise to Dre since she's in a field she does well.  Though given how unmotivated she sometimes comes off, I can see why he'd be concerned over how successful she'd be.

I liked the actor playing Connie when he was Adam on the short-lived The Millers.  And he's still a good actor.  I just can't stand his character here.  On top of being a serial killer, he's also a coddled, useless employee who's only where he is on nepotism?  No, thank you.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Michel

[Dee]

I absolutely LOST it when Rainbow pulled a drive-by on Junior for getting Pizza Possum closed.

[charmed1]

I thought Bo's romper was cute. I think they should just go ahead and abandon the pregnancy storyline. Let's pretend it never happened.

Alec Mapa was in one of my favorite Roseanne episodes. Good to see him on blackish. 

I wonder what they're going to do with Junior and Zoey now that the characters (and pretty soon, the actors) are approaching college age. I don't want a Becky Connor redux.

Edited December 8, 2016 by charmed1

[Mrs OldManBalls]

On 2016-12-02 at 11:00 AM, xander874 said:

But there is no way that room redo cost only $62. Still, liked the change.

If that was only $62? She can come redo any room in my house! 

Being mixed race myself, I could relate to Bow. It's tricky to navigate....anything...when you don't fit into any particular role. 

[monakane]

I loved the picture of Charlie with Nixon.  Who knew Charlie is 72 years old?  This episode was definitely a let down after last week's stellar episode.