The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[Almost 3000]

MEchelle would take on her new role as the "poor ole widow" left behind to be alone all alone. We would have to send her boxes and boxes of Kleenex so she could wipe away her fake tears if it ever happened.

Is there a gift registry for that?

[WTFFF]

Poor Jason! I saw the episode where he fell 10-12 ft down the orchestra pit. The terror on his face was heartbreaking. No snark here. It must have been so scary for everyone.

 

Everyone but Michelle, who was filming the whole thing, then grinning and chatting at the cameras as they walked (or wheeled, in J-boy's case) towards the ambulance.

 

Jackson was so cute, though.  "I was crying because he's my buddy - I didn't want him to die!"  That kid may annoy me at times, but everything he says is hilarious, even when he's being really sweet. 

[floridamom]

I was surprised that Jackson identified his brother as his "buddy" and didn't want him to die, or something. They are brothers, not "buddies". I also remember Josie calling Jana her "Jana-buddy". There is just something wrong with that, IMO. None of those kids said because "I love him/her". They know their buddies get things done for them. How sad.

[Fuzzysox]

I bet they came up with the buddy names so that Jana wouldn't be called MOM and thus confuse the general public.

[Ljohnson1987]

The Buddy system means that J'Chelle doesn't have to parent her children. The whole "Mom can't be everywhere" thing that was said in  14 Children and pregnant again is a cop out. J'Chelle doesn't do that much during the day. Exercises, bible time. Take kid to occasional dr appointment. She could definitely be a mom to her kids. She chooses not to.

[floridamom]

Yes, back with the 14kids and Mama can't be everywhere at once...that would have clued Michelle in that maybe she already had her quiver of children and obviously couldn't  handle any more, wouldn't you think? But just like her sister said in an interview ONCE, the more anyone told Michelle 'no', the more she wanted whatever it was. She's just a stubborn brat and never grew out of it. She described her high school behavior as being the girl who wanted the attention, the best outfit, the best hair and makeup....she hasn't changed, just re-packaged herself.

Don't forget that Michelle "schedules" everything...that's her main "job". She is very good at delegating work to everyone else, obviously and does nothing herself in that household. She should be the one who hardly steps out without the apron on because she's busy cooking for her family, cleaning and grocery shopping. The older girls and guys CAN and should take care of their own space, ie making their own beds, washing their own linens and laundry, cleaning up after themselves. They should then GET OUT of the house during the workweek and go to school or jobs. The other kids should go to Christian school and JB can drive them. She would have time to take care of things herself...but she can't do that because she is lazy, unorganized, and needing to be at JB's beck and call.

[Chai]

I wonder how Josie is doing in terms of health wise? The baby boy that was in the hospital with her, Samuel? Has done SO well! His mom blogged about their little family. It's so sweet! The irony that we met this family from watching the Duggars is not lost on me. He had many health issues that were addressed and cared for. Josie looks like she's had none. I just don't think they would not film it, if she were getting it. Sorry I can't do the link. If someone else can thank you.

[Darknight]

The Buddy system means that J'Chelle doesn't have to parent her children. The whole "Mom can't be everywhere" thing that was said in 14 Children and pregnant again is a cop out. J'Chelle doesn't do that much during the day. Exercises, bible time. Take kid to occasional dr appointment. She could definitely be a mom to her kids. She chooses not to.

I get mom can't he there but what a poor excuse to not raise her kids.

[SnarkyMcSnarkerson]

Speaking of Disney....I wonder how the Duggars view Disney World and Disney movies. You'd think all that stuff would be right up their alley of puritanical views. Or maybe fantasy worlds of princesses and stuff is too worldly for their feeble minds to wrap their heads around.

 

Pretty sure all those Disney Princesses needing True Love's Kiss before marriage would nix those movies pretty quick!

[starfire]

I'd bet that Disney = Satanic to the Duggars.  With so many of Disney's TV shows and movies having references to witchcraft, the occult, magic, etc., I can't picture JB allowing it. Disney also supports what the Duggars would  probably refer to as the "gay agenda".

[Ljohnson1987]

They went to Disneyland and got their  pics taken with some characters. It was during the On The Road special.

[starfire]

I'm surprised they did. Lots of fundie Christians avoid Disney.

 

I would love to see them being filmed as unsuspecting visitors during Disney's World's annual Gay Days!

 

P.S. The Duggars don't celebrate Halloween, and are supposedly against magic, witches etc. (which Disney shows and movies are often full of), yet they will patronize the Magic Kingdom? That seems strange/hypocritical to me.

 

'Magic, sorcery, witches, spell-casting, and the like are all part of the demonic realm that God wants us to stay away from,' explain Jill, Jessa, Jana and Jinger in their book, Growing Up Duggar. 'One specific thing that our parents have always been careful about is magic, which often shows up in children's movies. As harmless as it may seem, it's not a joke in God's eyes,' the sisters add

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2768380/Why-Duggars-don-t-Halloween-19-Kids-Counting-family-believe-magic-witches-demonic-realm.html#ixzz3G4E9W65u

Edited October 13, 2014 by starfire

[GEML]

I think all large families have used a buddy system at one time or another. If you read the book CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN the Gilbreth family was often criticized for relying so much on their older children.

But there is a difference between being a buddy and being a surrogate parent. I think the Bates family probably used something closer to a buddy system. But it's absolutely clear that Kelly is the mother.

[floridamom]

There was a photograph on their family blog of them when they visited Disneyland. Some costumed characters were over saying hello to Meechelle, one of which was Sleeping Beauty, I think. The look on one of the little boys face was priceless. It was like they smelled bad, or something. I commented on that site if they even knew who those characters were. I'm sure they didn't, after all, that tramp Sleeping Beauty was awakned by a kiss from Prince Charming and it was BEFORE the wedding. Such a shame that those little girls can't even play "princess" as they don't even have a reference. I would like to know the story behind Mackynzie and her 'Halloween costume" which looks like a princess to me. What can she play in that outfit?

[zenme]

I'm sure Mack doesn't know it's a cartoon character, but it's a dress, so I'm sure it's approved. I'm sure if it was something that a boy could like it would be a big no no.

[Chai]

It was Sarah Pope who was in the hospital with her son Samuel the same time Josie was there. He had many therapies for things associated with being a micro preemie, which can be read on her blog parenting the preemie pope.

I appreciate the view of those that work with children and have noticed obvious delays. I hope they are addressing any of her concerns and just not filming it.

[Barb23]

Since we've been discussing Disney & Halloween stuff, IIRC Michelle has stated they only believe/celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas (as many people do). But at Miracle's first birthday party, one of her gifts was a onesie that looked like Santa Claus & they squealed how cute it was. Another double standard moment.

[Micks Picks]

OK I just saw the guys at the rock climbing episode.  Poor John David.  They all agreed he was the one who was expendable because he didn't have a woman or kids.  Of course, neither did the other guys until they actually married and had kids, they were only in the planning stage.  Regardless, who the hell thinks like that---that one is expendable?  It's really not a way I'd look at the world.  Certainly not talk about or tell somebody.  What rude flakes!  JB is always the coward of the bunch, while Mechelle is the one who is most apt to do sports things, having done them before when she was a normal person.  Watching the documentary on the Roosevelts, they always encouraged their kids to be out and about, as did the Kennedys and Bush's.  Geeze.

[cmr2014]

Josiah appears to be gone -- just gone. And they never mention it,

 

I wonder if he was sent away due to some perceived character flaw, or if he is just happy to be away (or both). I don't know if Alert training is fun, but I bet there's something to be said for being out of the house and spending time with people other than his immediate family.

[PityFree]

Could get have escaped the cult?

maybe he has gotten a GED and started college? Become a Catholic, read a book that is not the bible, kissed a girl/boy?

Edited October 23, 2014 by PityFree

[CarolMK]

I read on another site that Josiah was at ALERT camp for most of 2014, maybe he isn't just a camper, but also a counselor like Jana was to the Journey to the Heart retreats (or group leader). He was there for Jill's wedding, we saw him briefly with Jill picking up Josh and Anna at the airport. He also was in some recent pictures on the Duggars Official FB page so he is back again for Jessa's wedding. I wonder if he is going to be featured on the show in the future, though...last thing I remember him in was his homeschool graduation.

[Lillybee]

JD was also missing from the All About Jill episode.

[joanofarch4]

JD was also missing from the All About Jill episode.

Both Josiah and John were at the house wearing their light blue "man camp" (whatever that's called) t-shirts and sporting military-style buzz-cuts.  They can both be seen in the front yard hugging Josh and Anna and family when they arrived for the wedding in their rental car from the airport (don't believe they were at the airport), but that seems to be the extent of their participation in this episode...

Edited October 24, 2014 by joanofarch4

[NausetGirl]

OK I just saw the guys at the rock climbing episode.  Poor John David.  They all agreed he was the one who was expendable because he didn't have a woman or kids.  Of course, neither did the other guys until they actually married and had kids, they were only in the planning stage.  Regardless, who the hell thinks like that---that one is expendable?  It's really not a way I'd look at the world.  Certainly not talk about or tell somebody.  What rude flakes!  JB is always the coward of the bunch, while Mechelle is the one who is most apt to do sports things, having done them before when she was a normal person.  Watching the documentary on the Roosevelts, they always encouraged their kids to be out and about, as did the Kennedys and Bush's.  Geeze.

 

Which is one reason why we have never had a President Duggar.  And God willing, never will.  Talk about scary...

Edited October 24, 2014 by NausetGirl

[NausetGirl]

I would like to hear from Grandma Duggar, if they would let her out of the laundry room long enough to let us know how she, her husband and their family grew up. How did she raise Jim Bob and Deanna? She managed a yogurt shop, so she worked outside the home, why is that now a sin? That's how Michelle met her wooooonderful husband, isn't it? So how can such a "blessing" come out of a sinful thing like a job? I'm curious about Jim Bob's childhood, since we had to sit through grandma talking about Amy's childhood and how she snuck out of school at recess and went next door to her house to visit. More than I cared to know about Amy, I'd like to hear about Jim Bob's school experience, K-12 and how they lived at home, watched TV, listened to music, etc? Where did this extremism come from with him? Also, where is SHE on this and why does she put up with washing Michelle's dirty underwear? Does she since now widowed, have to submit to Jim Bob? Does that mean Michelle, one day, when Jim Bob may have passed on, have to submit to Josh and wash his underwear? Let it all rip...I'm curious!

 

Well, I was a psychology major for both undergraduate and graduate degrees so my spin is obviously going to be along those lines.  My theory is that Boob is one of those "no gray area" people. He's incapable of seeing or dealing with varying levels or degrees in any aspect of life.  Everything is viewed as A or B, black or white, good or bad.  There's only one way to treat every problem or issue.  Maybe he's always found it difficult to make decisions in the first place, and the cut-and-dried approach of Gothardism is easy and comfortable.  Personally I think he's very insecure.  I don't think he got a lot of points in his childhood for anything and that can result in an adult with no self-confidence.  He compensates well for that with the constant outward appearance of "Daddy has it covered here..." but he has no decision-making skills.  He can't see a situation and evaluate the pros and cons - relative to his family at that particular moment - and then make a measured decision based on careful thought.  There's a lot of paranoia and fear too, and I'm clueless as to where that comes from.  But everything "on the outside" of the fundie cocoon he lives in is out to get Boob and his family.  The world is a massive, dark and evil forest with terrors hiding behind every tree, just waiting to envelope them.  The industrial-strength control he exerts over everything is a coping mechanism.  It's easier to manage something when there are no variables, no judgement calls to be made. And "If I control everything, nothing can ever go wrong..." I think he has a major fear of being wrong, of not being perfect too.  I don't remember if he's a firstborn but that is usually a major feature of a firstborn's deal.  Finally, from  odd comments made over the years, I think there are significant father-son issues here.  I think JB saw jumping on the Gothard bandwagon as a conduit to besting his own father in the family department.  An "I'll show you..." move.  Because he doesn't seem to do anything as his parents did them.  At least for what we can tell.  You never hear "I always do X because my Dad did X..." I find that very unusual.

Edited October 25, 2014 by NausetGirl

[GEML]

^^^^ Good post.  And I also think that when any of his children show any form of independent or creative thought, that is terrifying to JB.  

[Joe Jitsu913]

I think Jim Bob felt emasculated by his dad/society. I think that's Why Gothardism was so appealing to him because he's THE MAN in charge of his family. Look how virile I am with 19 kids! My family worships me! All I have to do is sneeze and my wife gets pregnant! I'm a stud!

It's like he's on a mission to flaunt his manliness and it's pathetic.

[NausetGirl]

I think Jim Bob felt emasculated by his dad/society. I think that's Why Gothardism was so appealing to him because he's THE MAN in charge of his family. Look how virile I am with 19 kids! My family worships me! All I have to do is sneeze and my wife gets pregnant! I'm a stud!

It's like he's on a mission to flaunt his manliness and it's pathetic.

 

Yes, I think this is a factor as well.  Maybe a major one.  Something tells me JB was never part of the "cool crowd" in school.  He may have been bullied and ridiculed fairly regularly.  And his behavior now is an answer to that.  More "I'll show you..."

[Potato511]

FREE JOSIAH!

 

Anyone see the pic of Josiah at the house (with Kirk Cameron and another guy) in the Jessa's Wedding set on the Pickles and Hairspray facebook page?

His eyes look terrified. That is how he has looked in all the pics since ALERT that I've seen. What have they done with the fun, thoughtful, creative, outgoing party-guy that Josiah once was? It makes me so sad.

[mbutterfly]

FREE JOSIAH!

 

Anyone see the pic of Josiah at the house (with Kirk Cameron and another guy) in the Jessa's Wedding set on the Pickles and Hairspray facebook page?

His eyes look terrified. That is how he has looked in all the pics since ALERT that I've seen. What have they done with the fun, thoughtful, creative, outgoing party-guy that Josiah once was? It makes me so sad.

His eyes look like someone is holding a gun to his back and saying, "Don't say a word. Just keep walking."

[zenme]

Josiah's eyes look like those of a traumatized person. I'm not saying he is, but he used to seem more happy go lucky in years past, than in the last couple of years. Whatever the reason, I hope he's okay and happy.

[lottiedottie]

Is Josiah the one who wore a bowtie/purple shirt for his graduation? (I have a hard time keeping these people straight). If so, I'm not surprised he has a look of terror in his eyes. I'm sure that ALERT scared the purple right out of him. It seems like with his colorful shirt and cheeky bow tie that he was showing too much personality/individuality.

 

FREE JOSIAH!

[BitterApple]

Is Josiah the one who wore a bowtie/purple shirt for his graduation? (I have a hard time keeping these people straight). If so, I'm not surprised he has a look of terror in his eyes. I'm sure that ALERT scared the purple right out of him. It seems like with his colorful shirt and cheeky bow tie that he was showing too much personality/individuality.

 

FREE JOSIAH!

Yes, he was the one who wore the bowtie. I also remember him giving a very articulate and thoughtful graduation speech. IIRC, he also planned his own party, right down to sending out all the invites. Josiah has a lot of potential if he can ever escape Tinker Toy Prison.

[Darknight]

I think JB was trying to prove something. Wasn't he poor? Didn't he blame and talk bad about his father and how he was bad with money?? Unfortunately he's just like his father

Is Josiah the one who wore a bowtie/purple shirt for his graduation? (I have a hard time keeping these people straight). If so, I'm not surprised he has a look of terror in his eyes. I'm sure that ALERT scared the purple right out of him. It seems like with his colorful shirt and cheeky bow tie that he was showing too much personality/individuality.

FREE JOSIAH!

Josiah was at alert a lot this year. Wonder if he's rebelling

[WTFFF]

I think Josiah's sin is just plain being too smart for a Gothard man. 

 

We all know what they think of women, but men really also have to follow a very strict set of guidelines in how they act, think, work, etc.  This is evident in the Duggar household as well.  Josh, John and Joe, the favored sons, are dull as dirt, dull as an unsharpened pencil, and willing to follow JimBob's orders for how to live their lives - or in Josh's case, were until very recently.  John just kind of derps around all day towing cars and playing handyman to his dad.  Josh was given the car lot, but unless I'm mistaken, those lots were always under JimBob's ownership.  Both of them attempted to maneuver their way into politics - John unsuccessfully, Josh with more success - by parroting JimBob's own political agendas (no abortion, no gay marriage, guns everywhere, less taxation).  I don't know what the hell Joseph does all day but all we've ever seen is him following JimBob's orders to fix things around the house or follow John around helping him with his tasks.

 

Josiah, as we've seen time and time again, has no interest in physical labor.  He complains jokingly, but still complains, about having to do outdoor work on the property.  He wants to go into accounting - which is Duggar "approved," but involves some level of higher education, which we all know JimBob scorns and actively discourages his children from pursuing.  Worst of all, Josiah occasionally thinks.  The best example of this is reaction with dismay and fear after the Jubilee pregnancy announcement.  There is no greater transgression for any Duggar, but especially a Duggar son, than "going against" whatever JimBob tells them to think, feel or do.  JimBob loves any opportunity to cut Josiah down and really seems to dislike him, and I've always suspected it's because he knows that Josiah is too smart to live his entire life based solely on what JimBob dictates.

 

And Alert is all about training young men to take orders without question.  (And some survivalist stuff that I assume appeals to Doomsdayers and outdoorsy types, but ultimately, the place is fucking terrifying with how much mind control they attempt to exert over the kids.  Which is true for all Gothardite institutions, at least in my opinion.)

 

I think Jeremiah will be the next Duggar to be shown this treatment, but we'll see what happens.  Hopefully Jer will continue to blend in with the wallpaper, but I've always wondered how long he's going to "get away with" being artistic and thoughtful. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by WTFFF

[BitterApple]

WTFFF, don't forget the infamous paintball incident where Boob aggressively shoved Josiah to the side so he could take cover behind a tree. 

 

I agree that Boob is intimidated by any son who has the potential to out do him both intellectually and occupationally. Look at how scornful Boob was towards Derick when he interrogated him about how he paid his college tuition. As if it was any of his business to begin with.

 

I think Josiah, Jer and Jed are very similar in terms of interests and temperment. I hate to think of them stuck in low-skill crap jobs they hate just because Daddy Cheapskate won't shell out a few bucks for higher education.

Edited November 3, 2014 by BitterApple

[floridamom]

I agree that Josiah, Jeremiah and Jedidiah are deeper individuals than maybe some of the rest of the group, certainly their parents! Isn't Jer the "chess kid" who was taught by Grandpa Duggar? I think he is a nice young man and I liked him very much when he was trying to explain the game to his biological mother; he seems to be sensitive and I hope he somehow has a good life ahead of himself and can actually pursue career interests that have nothing to do with a chainsaw. The same goes for Josiah and Jedidiah. Not that I'm "downing" chainsaw work", mind you, but they aren't cut out for that as a career, IMO. They seem to be more intellectual people who actually think!

[GEML]

I am really really hoping that Josh has managed to break out and find a white collar job in a respectable way, which involves being under someone else's authority without the world collapsing, and Derrick having an advanced degree and working for a major corporation, that there will be a way forward for some of the younger children who are of the Jim Bob/John David/Joseph hand's on type.  I do think that Jim Bob learned something from Josh leaving, and I hope the lesson that he learned is to give his children a little bit more room or they may leave altogether.  It may have been a lesson learned too late to help out Josiah, but perhaps the younger siblings will find their futures a little easier.

[maraleia]

The kids I feel for the most are Jana, Joy-Anna, Josiah, Jer, Jed, Hannie, Jenny and Jordyn. They seem to be the ones with actual opinions and intellect and I really hope they can break free.

[Barb23]

WTFFF, don't forget the infamous paintball incident where Boob aggressively shoved Josiah to the side so he could take cover behind a tree.

I agree that Boob is intimidated by any son who has the potential to out do him both intellectually and occupationally. Look at how scornful Boob was towards Derick when he interrogated him about how he paid his college tuition. As if it was any of his business to begin with.

I think Josiah, Jer and Jed are very similar in terms of interests and temperment. I hate to think of them stuck in low-skill crap jobs they hate just because Daddy Cheapskate won't shell out a few bucks for higher education.

And when the producer asked Boob on a TH why he pushed Josiah (or something like that) during paint ball, Boob did his goofy laugh & replied "oh you got that on tape." & he dodged the question as usual.

[MarysWetBar]

He is such a dirtbag sometimes!

http://i.imgur.com/B4sjiMl.jpg

[homeperm]

I think Jim Bob felt emasculated by his dad/society. I think that's Why Gothardism was so appealing to him because he's THE MAN in charge of his family. Look how virile I am with 19 kids! My family worships me! All I have to do is sneeze and my wife gets pregnant! I'm a stud!

It's like he's on a mission to flaunt his manliness and it's pathetic.

What a perfect, succinct description of Boob's psyche. Are you a professional? 

[NausetGirl]

I agree that Josiah, Jeremiah and Jedidiah are deeper individuals than maybe some of the rest of the group, certainly their parents! Isn't Jer the "chess kid" who was taught by Grandpa Duggar? I think he is a nice young man and I liked him very much when he was trying to explain the game to his biological mother; he seems to be sensitive and I hope he somehow has a good life ahead of himself and can actually pursue career interests that have nothing to do with a chainsaw. The same goes for Josiah and Jedidiah. Not that I'm "downing" chainsaw work", mind you, but they aren't cut out for that as a career, IMO. They seem to be more intellectual people who actually think!

 

I love this: "...trying to explain the game to his BIOLOGICAL mother..." Spot-on, floridamom! Lately I'm finding myself having a major soft spot for the "middle boys" and Josiah in particular. He seems articulate and thoughtful, very bright and with a wry sense of humor.  At least during the few times I've seen him speak. I honestly pray that he is able - at some point - to break away and do what HE wants to do. Which, I agree, is not to operate a backhoe 10 hours a day with John David.

[Barb23]

He is such a dirtbag sometimes!

http://i.imgur.com/B4sjiMl.jpg

OMG! I'm going to have nightmares. Brain bleach please & make it quick !!!

[Darknight]

Is JB scared that his kids might be smarter or more successful than him? Accounting is a great career. Maybe Derrick can give Josiah some pointers. It's sad that these kids want to learn but can't.

I can't even imagine him reporting to a woman, though. I agree with you and hope you're right, I just have such a hard time picturing any of them working for someone else, especially a woman, when they can't even be bothered to get up or get in the car/van/bus at a set time. I hope you're right that Josh leaving might end up with the other kids having more freedom in a roundabout way.

But they will report to a woman for gun exams or giving birth

[floridamom]

I want to clarify that I am not intending to downgrade anyone who works with power tools for a living. It is a talent in itself and quite a valuable one. My intent here was to point out that not all the Duggar boys are cut out for this to be their life's career...as not all of Jim Bob's sons are cut out to do the same type or work. They seem to be more "desk oriented" guys and I don't think that Jim Bob gives THOSE CAREERS much thought or respect.

I still would like to hear an account from Grandma Duggar as to how she and her husband lived and raised Jim Bob, when and where this fascination with extreme Christian beliefs surfaced. Obviously, he was hard core from high school, as he did home visitation to "new Christians", like cheerleader Michelle? I'd like to hear from her, while she's still here with us,, to account the truth of their upbringing...and why she lives as she does now? She is NOT a poor woman, has many properties in HER name,, and has social security from her husband and/or herself as "new money" every month. Why does she seem to want to live in that circus tent of a home and wash her daughter in law's "sweet fellowship-filled) dirty underwear?

[PityFree]

He is such a dirtbag sometimes!

http://i.imgur.com/B4sjiMl.jpg

Dear Gawd - can you imagine that face coming at you at least 19 times when you have no more defense than a sheet and your countenance?

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

The kids I feel for the most are Jana, Joy-Anna, Josiah, Jer, Jed, Hannie, Jenny and Jordyn. They seem to be the ones with actual opinions and intellect and I really hope they can break free.

I wonder if this is because they're the most often overlooked kids? IMO, at least.

 

I'm starting to really think that JD is playing a part and isn't the dumbo everyone thinks he is. He got out, has his own business, actually did what he wanted to in regards to occupation or maybe hobby (pilot). I'm not sure if he's courting but I'm sure he's probably been on a date or two. I think he's totally done with this business and keeps up appearances so no one else is the wiser. If it's true, good for him. I don't know why people hate on him so much, except for his immaturity, but honestly, as I said before, I think it's an act.

[joanofarch4]

Sometimes I wonder if James isn't really Deanna's and they pulled a "switcheroo" there; the resemblance is amazing.  I noticed in the turkey hunt episode, when they showed them side by side in profile, that Ginger looks exactly like JB, only with darker coloring.  Jessa also doesn't seem to take after anyone else in the family (in more ways than one).  I agree that the three middle boys seem to be the sensitive, intelligent ones.  And isn't ALERT emergency/first responder training for disasters?  It's more like the national guard than the military, per se.

Edited November 14, 2014 by joanofarch4

[Readalot]

Our oldest is about the same age as Joyless. I feel so bad for Joy, she is missing out on so much. We are blessed (!) that our daughter M. is a great young lady with a good group of friends. They hang out, go to the beach, do community service, sports, have relationships(!). So far no drugs, alcohol, sex. They love to laugh but cry too. Some are religious, some don't believe in God, like M. Their parents have good values, none of us are controlling to the point of suppression. M. and her whole friend group just got inducted into NHS last night! See Jim Boob and Bitchelle, it can be done, great kids that are not robots. And don't freak out Duggars, I'm taking seven of them on college tours tomorrow! Four are girls, the horrors!

I wish Joy could hanging with my daughter and her friends. Wholesome fun with no babysitting involved.