Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Quilt Fairy]

8 hours ago, McManda said:

The third was ready because at that point you're a seasoned parent and the older two are at least semi self survey and can entertain themselves while you feed a baby. 

I know this must be an auto-correct issue (because it can't be anything else) but I'm having trouble trying to replace the highlighted phrase  with the word you really meant.  Self-aware? Self-sufficient? Self-something else?

[Temperance]

42 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Then again, people have babies to force a partner to stay, to try to save a failing marriage, to inherit money, because they were too lazy or intoxicated to use birth control.  Having children who might be able to save the life of a sibling, or care for a disabled sibling; isn't even in the ballpark when it comes to lousy reasons to procreate.

Agree to disagree. 

[McManda]

6 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I know this must be an auto-correct issue (because it can't be anything else) but I'm having trouble trying to replace the highlighted phrase  with the word you really meant.  Self-aware? Self-sufficient? Self-something else?

Oops, yes, definitely an auto correct issue. (It's what I get for using a swipe keyboard, I suppose.)

It was supposed to read "semi self-sufficient". Her older kids didn't need constant attention (the oldest will be six in a few weeks and the middle kid is three) and were able to play independently or help by grabbing mom a diaper or their own jackets or whatever, leaving her free to look at least have time to feed an infant.

I know three kids isn't six kids ... or anywhere close to nineteen kids... but the thought process of it being easier to have more kids because your oldest are older isn't super unique, I don't think.

[awaken]

2 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

to force more joyful sagging upon her,  

Sorry, I’m just envisioning “joyful sagging” and can’t stop giggling. 

On 12/28/2018 at 6:30 PM, ChiCricket said:

@ginger90 wrote: 4 pictures

 It looks like Sam is (gleefully) checking out escape options in 3 out of 4 of them.

I nearly never say anything positive about the dullards, but these are some of the cutest, most relaxed and appropriate photos I’ve seen her post of the boys. They look normal and happy. 

[floridamom]

So, Izzy and Sam sleep together? They don't have their own beds? It would be just like Jill to pack them in like sardines. She has only the two right now; why not give them their own beds? What the heck is wrong with DDD and Cathy? I'm sure Dan and Derick had their own beds; not to mention their own rooms. When my two boys were very little, we had a two bedroom condo. They each had their own bed in that room until we got a 3 bedroom place. Just don't understand them.

[GeeGolly]

18 minutes ago, floridamom said:

So, Izzy and Sam sleep together? They don't have their own beds? It would be just like Jill to pack them in like sardines. She has only the two right now; why not give them their own beds? What the heck is wrong with DDD and Cathy? I'm sure Dan and Derick had their own beds; not to mention their own rooms. When my two boys were very little, we had a two bedroom condo. They each had their own bed in that room until we got a 3 bedroom place. Just don't understand them.

Worse yet, that appears to be one of those transition beds that uses a crib mattress. Crib mattresses are the perfect size for one average sized toddler and not much more.

[ginger90]

 I doubt Samuel is out of a crib. He’s barely out of a stroller, or carry seat. ( I can’t for the life of me recall what they are called!)

[galaxychaser]

12 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

"My fellow captive, Yaaay" is never NOT going to make me guffaw! 

Now, "reptilian intelligence" joins the list! BTW there is a great book for trial attorneys (particularly plaintiffs' attorneys) called "Reptile" so this is like a next level description! Yaaaaay! 

Re: Jim Boob should have given Michelle's reproductive system and mental health a break from babies. Do you remember that mother quite a few years back who suffered from severe post-partum psychosis and drowned all 4 of her small children? If I recall correctly, they were Quiverfull, and the husband was rightly blamed for not taking her mental health seriously. She'd exhibited troubling behavior before killing them, and his response was to insist he knew best, and to force more joyful shagging* upon her, ultimately to the point of psychotic break. She was just told to pray, not given the opportunity to get mental health care. IMO Michelle is lucky she didn't go fully :round the bend. 

BTW it is downright abusive to automatically expect your other children to care for disabled siblings when the parents can no longer. Each child is autonomous, and entitled to a full complement of life choices. Of course many want to do so, but it is abusive to their rights and lives to expect them to do so. 

It was Andrea Yates and she drowned 5 kids, 4 boys and 1 girl.

[QuinnInND]

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

So, Izzy and Sam sleep together? They don't have their own beds? It would be just like Jill to pack them in like sardines. She has only the two right now; why not give them their own beds? What the heck is wrong with DDD and Cathy? I'm sure Dan and Derick had their own beds; not to mention their own rooms. When my two boys were very little, we had a two bedroom condo. They each had their own bed in that room until we got a 3 bedroom place. Just don't understand them.

My twins have their own room, and my 8 year old has his own room and bed. However, they all love to pile into one bed. Go figure. I'm hoping this is what's going on. The boys want to sleep together. Makes Sam feel like a big boy, and Yaaay gets to feel like a good big brother. 

[lookeyloo]

7 hours ago, floridamom said:

So, Izzy and Sam sleep together? They don't have their own beds? It would be just like Jill to pack them in like sardines. She has only the two right now; why not give them their own beds? What the heck is wrong with DDD and Cathy? I'm sure Dan and Derick had their own beds; not to mention their own rooms. When my two boys were very little, we had a two bedroom condo. They each had their own bed in that room until we got a 3 bedroom place. Just don't understand them.

It could be that they are playing.  My sons did this when they were very young.  They are close in age.  My grands did it too.  then into their own beds.

[galaxychaser]

I think the boys cuddle together because their parents don’t hug or kiss them. Derick instead of picking his son up high fives him! The kids crave attention and love.

[PikaScrewChu]

On 12/29/2018 at 5:12 PM, bythelake said:

If Jill ever reads this forum, she’ll be gunning for Becky in the third row.

It's bad. I want to believe Becky in the third row is real.

[PradaKitty]

So... shouldn’t Derrick’s grades be posted soon?

[Absolom]

I'm sure Dreck has his grades already.  We'll probably never hear about them unless he shocks us all and does exceptionally well.

[PradaKitty]

We need a spy... 

[Oldernowiser]

On 12/28/2018 at 11:51 AM, ginger90 said:

From Derick’s sushi post:

 

 

Okay, I’m dark and cynical, but “for the time being” may say a lot about his law school grades...

[PikaScrewChu]

31 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

So... shouldn’t Derrick’s grades be posted soon?

Probably not until the 7th. Only professors trying to get tenure and teaching profs (and that's a huge maybe) tend to even contemplate student marks during winter break. I had a tenured prof write a reference letter for me on Christmas Day but those profs are the exception and not the norm. I didn't even need it that soon, he just happened to be working when I sent the email that day.

A general rule of thumb with universities. If it's not done by the time school closes until the next semester, forget about it. They ain't looking at it until they are back in the office.

[ginger90]

Dean and Chancellor lists will probably be posted on the school’s website. Will Derick’s name appear? I will be checking. 🤣

[PikaScrewChu]

Is Dean's list by term at Arkansas? Here it's by GPA in overall year.

[Portia]

Wait, what? Granted, I've only worked at state universities and community colleges, but everywhere I've taught, grades are due a couple of days after finals end, whether you're a tenured prof or a TA. And students generally get their grades pretty soon after that because everything is online.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Portia

[ginger90]

8 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Is Dean's list by term at Arkansas? Here it's by GPA in overall year.

 

[Zella]

Didn't go to law school there, but when I was at the U of A, honors were by semester. (That was also what happened at the community college and undergraduate college I attended.)

I also never had to wait until the next semester for grades to be posted at the U of A or elsewhere. In fact, as a TA at the U of A, we were harped on pretty relentlessly to post grades promptly, and my instructors who were actual professors were punctual about it too. 

I bet money Derick has his grades and is tight-lipped about them because they're not great.

Yeah, grades were due nearly 2 weeks ago:

https://registrar.uark.edu/academic-dates/administrative-calendar/index.php 

[QuinnInND]

Somebody should get on Twitter and ask him about his grades. 

[Sew Sumi]

I've already been blocked by him once. Not gonna waste my sock puppet account on him. 

[PikaScrewChu]

16 minutes ago, Portia said:

Wait, what? Granted, I've only worked at state universities and community colleges, but everywhere I've taught, grades are due a couple of days after finals end, whether you're a tenured prof or a TA. And students generally get their grades pretty soon after that because everything is online.

It's crazy how fast it's changed in my time. When I was doing my undergrad the profs had 5 business days to post grades or else. My chemistry profs were notorious for holding TAs for 24 hours straight after proctoring the final exam to mark to make sure they made that 5 business day guideline. Now it has become "When you get to it you get to it". Granted we have some outside forces going on at the university I currently work at and the Registar and department are loathe to nag for grades because of it. We are extreme outliers as a result but it's not uncommon for students to wait for a while now. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he doesn't have them back.

[Catfin]

2 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

It's bad. I want to believe Becky in the third row is real.

Right there with you, however, what are the chances of lightning striking twice? No self respecting female law student would have the hots for him.  What if it were Beckham in the third row? Tee hee.

[QuinnInND]

Barf. 

[CherryMalotte]

Quote

I bet money Derick has his grades and is tight-lipped about them because they're not great.

I would agree.  If they were super sonic fantastic Jill would have been crowing YAYYY!!!!! from sunrise to sunset on SM how smart her hubby is.  I'd say he's middle to lower end of the class.

[galaxychaser]

Thankfully Dereck is blurry.  Can’t stand him.

[mynextmistake]

Last one for a while...

Day 827. This morning, the male guard rose early and filled his backpack with the heavy books he regularly transports to a nearby location called “law school.” The female guard said that she could make him breakfast as soon as she found the can opener (which I had, in a small act of rebellion, hidden the night before in an untouched box labeled “medical things”) but he told her not to worry because Becky in the third row had already made him a sandwich. After he left the hovel, the female guard spent quite a long time glaring at the law school student directory and occasionally stabbing one of the pictures in it with a kebab skewer. She then decided to free my fellow captive, Yaaay, and I from our cells and take us outside for our exercise interval. We went to a curious location called “the playground,” where there were large wooden structures to climb on and little plastic chutes that allowed a quick egress from the upper levels to the ground. While we were there, a curious thing happened —  the female guard seemed to become unsure of Yaaay’s identity. She continually called his name, but each time he responded she immediately asked him if he was “Happy.” I do not know who this “Happy” person is, and judging by his negative responses, Yaaay does not either. It was most peculiar. After a while, she gave up and marched Yaaay/Happy and I back to the hovel. She said she was going to make dinner, but soon remembered that she could not find the can opener. Unable to cook without it, she put us into the car and drove us (restrained, of course) to a Chick-Fil-A, where she purchased a bucket of deep-fried chicken parts which we ate in the car on the way back to the hovel. Once we arrived, she placed us both in our cells for the night. I attempted to sneak out in order to hide this journal, but the female guard was sitting on the couch stroking the kebab skewer and chanting about Becky the Ho of the Third Row, so I was unable to return it to its previous location. I shall have to hide it in Yaaay/Happy’s room. The laundry basket should work well, as it is very seldom emptied. I shall now set my mind to figuring out how I can construct one of those playground-style escape chutes so I can escape through my own window.

Edited December 31, 2018 by mynextmistake

[cmr2014]

I don't think Derick is particularly smart, and I doubt he would have made honors as an undergraduate, much less as a law student. I don't think, however, he'll wash out because of grades, but because he won't like it. IMO, Derick is attracted to the law for the same reason that he's attracted to evangelicalism and accounting - Derick likes rules. He wants to learn the rules and be "right" -- we see that ll the time in his SM posts. He's attracted to areas where he believes he can be "right" and convert people who are "wrong."

I think that the study of law will expose him to a lot of ambiguities, and I don't think he'll ever be comfortable with that. Pistol Pete was a great experience for Derick because he likes the whole idea of the wild west and good guys and bad guys. He wants to go out and "teach" to the world because he wants to believe that there are simple "right" and "wrong" answers to every question, and he knows the answers.

[Love2dance]

@mynextmistake, best one yet! Thanks for the giggle. What a great way to get ready for the New Year, which I hope will be good for you.

[ChiCricket]

15 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

While we were there, a curious thing happened —  the female guard seemed to become unsure of Yaaay’s identity. She continually called his name, but each time he responded she immediately asked him if he was “Happy.” I do not know who this “Happy” person is, and judging by his negative responses, Yaaay does not either. It was most peculiar. After a while, she gave up and marched Yaaay/Happy and I back to the hovel

OMGosh...you crack me up!

[GeeGolly]

6 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

I would agree.  If they were super sonic fantastic Jill would have been crowing YAYYY!!!!! from sunrise to sunset on SM how smart her hubby is.  I'd say he's middle to lower end of the class.

Does Jill even know grades are a thing? 

[Rabbittron]

I just checked and the honors list for the fall it's not up online yet I'll bet you any amount of money that Jill will claim that he is on the Dean's List and he didn't want his name published because he was famous when we all know he never made that list.

[Fostersmom]

Does grad school post grades like undergrad? 

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, Fostersmom said:

Does grad school post grades like undergrad? 

Yes uoa does

[Madtown]

I was going to say that that line will always be epic....until this..

 

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

 Becky the Ho of the Third Row

So fantasic!

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

She continually called his name, but each time he responded she immediately asked him if he was “Happy.” I do not know who this “Happy” person is, and judging by his negative responses, Yaaay does not either.

Laughed out loud funny!

 

@mynextmistake, another brilliant and hilarious entry of when will Stewie,  Sam escape the hovel..Thank you!

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I don't think Derick is particularly smart, and I doubt he would have made honors as an undergraduate, much less as a law student. I don't think, however, he'll wash out because of grades, but because he won't like it. IMO, Derick is attracted to the law for the same reason that he's attracted to evangelicalism and accounting - Derick likes rules. He wants to learn the rules and be "right" -- we see that ll the time in his SM posts. He's attracted to areas where he believes he can be "right" and convert people who are "wrong."

I think that the study of law will expose him to a lot of ambiguities, and I don't think he'll ever be comfortable with that. Pistol Pete was a great experience for Derick because he likes the whole idea of the wild west and good guys and bad guys. He wants to go out and "teach" to the world because he wants to believe that there are simple "right" and "wrong" answers to every question, and he knows the answers.

Yeah, very good points.

I think that the rules/black-and-white thing is pretty much the hallmark of people who are proactively attracted to their brand of religion (as opposed to those who may only have been born into it). They have an insecurity that makes them really really really uncomfortable coping on their own with any kind of gray areas. So they leap to embrace any school of thought that tells them there are none -- and tells them clearly (or at least they think so) exactly how to judge every situation.

We see that all over Der, but of course we see it all over the Duggar parents, the rest of the Duggarlings, Mike Seewald, Bin, Cathy Dillard, and Jer and Chuck Vuolo as well. And probably most of the rest of their acquaintance, too. Not only are they all busy telling people what to do but they also insist on placing everybody and everything into simplistic categories with ironclad rules -- like the whole "man/woman biblical gender roles" stuff. Each sex is in a little box that allows only certain behaviors and anybody who steps out of it goes against GOD. Der's trying to make a career off that -- and Chuck Vuolo has in fact made a career off of it. And they're far from the only ones. 

I do wonder how he'll cope with the law, as you say. In 2017, though, I had occasion to interview some super-ardent-fundie lawyers and law professors, and I got a (sad and scary) glimpse of how he may deal with it (if he's smart and hard-working enough to keep pursuing it, that is, and about that, who knows?) 

What I gleaned from my conversations is that a lot of these folks simply do their utmost to apply the black-and-white approach to all law, regardless of what the facts (and the law!) might otherwise seem to require The ones that I talked with seem to do it by positing that, even in a supposed nation of laws, the black-and-white laws of the Old Testament trump any human law -- and that certain human laws -- such as the constitutional guarantee of freedom of (conservative Protestant, as they construe it) religion -- trump all others.

And then they construct convoluted arguments that lead to the outcomes they want, according to their faith beliefs...... When asked about this, the folks I spoke to strongly justified it on the grounds that the Christian God's "natural law" has to rule and that our laws are basically all invalid if they in any way contradict what these people believe that natural law implies..... 

...And these were pretty smart people (by a Duggar-world comparison, anyway) and they all had good jobs in the conservative-law world -- professorships, resident scholars at think tanks, heads of their own Christian law firms, and so on..... But they'd managed to build a view of law for themselves that allows them to pretty largely discount the idea that there are any gray areas at all....At least if you're a person like them who knows surely what God wants and so can interpret the deficiencies in our human laws according to that yardstick. 

Obviously, Der's unlikely to be able to figure out that route for himself. But I suppose it's possible for him to come under the influence and protection of some smarter person like a professor who does embrace it and who could help him do the same (in the all-rote-Duggar-and-Duggar-adjacent kind of way). ... Not that he'll be of much use to them, probably.  But while I spoke to some fairly high-powered lawyers of this ilk, I'm sure they have a lot of dumber ones of the same ilk in their employ. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Churchhoney

[dariafan]

On 12/29/2018 at 4:10 PM, mynextmistake said:

Thanks everybody. I’m just down, I guess. It’s been a really rough month. But i’m glad I brought some laughs to you! 

I can’t speak for everyone, but I missed you and hope things look better for you !

[galaxychaser]

Is Dereck studying business law? I don’t see him as a criminal attorney.

[kokapetl]

On 30/12/2018 at 10:54 AM, doodlebug said:

 

Yep, the book is 'My Sister's Keeper' and it has also been made into a movie.  In it, a daughter is conceived at least in part to provide a bone marrow transplant for her older sister.  Turned out the sister then had ongoing health issues into her teens and the younger daughter spends much of her childhood donating blood and bone marrow to her sister which has limited her own life. In the book, the younger sister finds a lawyer to file suit to medically emancipate herself to avoid having to give her sister a kidney.  What the parents don't realize is that the older daughter is emotionally and physically exhausted and doesn't want the transplant.  She doesn't know how to tell her mom and dad. so her sister once again steps in to save her. Big twist in the story and sad ending. Jodi Picoult is a very good writer who does an excellent job at exploring contemporary ethical issues, I've read a lot of her stuff. 

Starring Cameron Diaz and the older daughter from Medium. 

[Minivanessa]

38 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Is Dereck studying business law? I don’t see him as a criminal attorney.

I don't think we know what he wants to focus on. And as a 1L (first year law student) he's probably got a limited choice of courses anyway. I haven't looked at the U of A law curriculum but generally 1Ls get a general/introductory collection of classes. Unless things have changed drastically in the decades since I attended law school, it's the second and third years that allow for more choice of elective courses. 

[Churchhoney]

44 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Is Dereck studying business law? I don’t see him as a criminal attorney.

Have we heard? Of course, he's only just starting this, so at this point he's still at stage of taking contracts and legal procedure, etc. Not specializing yet.... But what I can most see him wanting to do is study constitutional law so he can mount a strong defense of those many conservative Christians who're being persecuted and having their rights destroyed here in evilly-diverse 21st-century America.......And it would be a replacement for his missionary dream that died on the vine, mostly although not entirely from having a Duggar wife that he couldn't take too far out of the nest...

It would actually surprise me if that isn't what he aims at. That dream of spreading the influence of conservative Protestantism seems pretty ingrained in him, and I'd expect it to die hard .... But as to the facts ...I have no idea ... 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Have we heard? Of course, he's only just starting this, so at this point he's still at stage of taking contracts and legal procedure, etc. Not specializing yet.... But what I can most see him wanting to do is study constitutional law so he can mount a strong defense of those many conservative Christians who're being persecuted and having their rights destroyed here in evilly-diverse 21st-century America.......

It would actually surprise me if that isn't what he aims at. That dream of spreading the influence of conservative Protestantism seems pretty ingrained in him, and I'd expect it to die hard .... But as to the facts ...I have no idea ... 

I thought the only reason he'd go into law is to fight the heathens. I never considered anything else.

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I thought the only reason he'd go into law is to fight the heathens. I never considered anything else.

Me, too.

Theoretically, it seems as if the three Duggar-adjacent preacher-missionary-pastor wannabes could all take other career paths to support their families.

But since I think the idea of using the Duggar religious fame as a leg up in the conservative-Christian-career world was at the back of Der's, BIn's and Jer's minds when they chose their spouses, I'll be surprised if any of them gives up that general career field easily or soon. If they are forced to leave it for monetary or other reasons, I'm pretty sure they'll try to edge away from it but still stay connected to it. And I'm sure that's what Der's doing now. 

(I'm not saying that they didn't fall in love with their wives as well, for one reason or another and that they all married purely for ulterior motives, by the way. Bin had the hots; Jer was entranced by the pretty, meek, adoring artsy girl; and Der erroneously believed he'd met someone willing and able to wander around the world with him forever, God-bothering people in distant lands to bring them to Jesus. Those are all the kinds of things you can fall in love over, I think. Still, I do feel sure that the thought of Duggar fame boosting their own religious-career ambitions was a very important bonus they saw in their wives-to-be.)

Edited December 31, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I thought the only reason he'd go into law is to fight the heathens. I never considered anything else.

Okay, but how many gay wedding cake cases are there, really? Or “persecuted” Christians with money suing for discrimination? It’s hardly enough to make a career from in rural Arkansas and it’s not like I see Derrick having the stage presence to become a celebri-lawyer arguing groundbreaking cases in front of higher courts.

Ambulance chasing and bail hearings. Unless he wants to go into family law, but since he doesn’t believe in divorce, is there much left? 

Maybe probate and estate planning? But again, how many people are worrying about that in his neighborhood?

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Okay, but how many gay wedding cake cases are there, really? Or “persecuted” Christians with money suing for discrimination? It’s hardly enough to make a career from in rural Arkansas and it’s not like I see Derrick having the stage presence to become a celebri-lawyer arguing groundbreaking cases in front of higher courts.

Ambulance chasing and bail hearings. Unless he wants to go into family law, but since he doesn’t believe in divorce, is there much left? 

Maybe probate and estate planning? But again, how many people are worrying about that in his neighborhood?

Oh, it's definitely not what you'd call a realistic dream! I'm still convinced it is his dream, though.........Living life as an off-the-books missionary in Nepal isn't a realistic dream, either. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if he envisioned that kind of thing for his future with Jill when they were first together. ... 

And actually, among the conservative-Christian-lawyers I talked to last year,  there seemed to be pretty much optimism about the future of conservative-Christian law practice. The strong very-conservative-Republican hold on government at all levels had people encouraged that if they made a robust effort now, they could really get momentum going for conservative-Christian-friendly legal changes. And to push those changes, they'd need a substantial corps of lawyers -- including new, young lawyers -- committed to the cause.........

That might have been a pipe dream,  of course. But hopse for it seemed pretty high among people I talked to. More than a few argued that there had been biblical signs making clear that the 2016 presidential election marked a sea change in favor of conservative-Christian power in U.S. law ascending, at long last. ... I'm pretty sure that, if I heard that, Der's heard it, too. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

My suspicion is that Derick has no intention of actually practicing law and merely sees a law degree as a springboard into politics. *shudders* 

[Churchhoney]

23 minutes ago, Zella said:

My suspicion is that Derick has no intention of actually practicing law and merely sees a law degree as a springboard into politics. *shudders* 

Luckily, I'm pretty sure his combination of looks, personality, schmoozing ability and probably late and lame start when it comes to collecting influencers and funders in his corner would doom  him in about 3 seconds if he tried to take that route!

Seems to me BIn was rumored to have had that in mind way back when he was a teenager too. All three of the original Duggar-adjacent men very very much want to be people of influence in favor of their faith, I think. That's a lot easier dreamed than done, however. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Churchhoney