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Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

Chris Knight

By Chris Knight
in Counting On

CM-CrispMtAir
Message added by CM-CrispMtAir,

Shout out to everyone participating in the conversation about Jill’s miscarriage/stillbirth. You’re navigating a difficult topic with respect and thoughtfulness and your contributions are kind, considerate, constructive and informative. 

Thank you. 💚💚

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

Yes, let's not forget that Davey was Gothard's personal assistant, so he was deeply in the IBLP inner sanctum. I could see him literally running pages of Duggar "text" by Gothard to ensure that the Gothardese was just right. 

 

They sure love their "statisticsm though, don't they? Remember during the Megyn Kelly interview when Muffy informed us that "statistics showed" that 2/3 of families suffered molestations? I am still waiting for her to cite that one. The Gothard playbook is soooo predictable. 

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farmgal4

farmgal4

They care because these made up statistics (seriously, a life expectancy of 40? Critical thinking should kick in here one would hope, but clearly not) confirm that their way of life is so much better than the lives of those godless rock stars and those who listen to them. Rock musicians are like boogey men to these people. Talented and passionate men and women who do what they love, living (in fundie minds at least) hedonistic lifestyles, getting fame and admiration for playing devil music with a beat. Of course they have to die young, otherwise it would mean that God approves of their sins.

 

And if they don't actually die young or for rock music reasons, well maybe some improved statistics will keep the fundie baby sheep in their fold. I just read through a "Christian" page that gloatingly listed all the prematurely dead rock stars of the past half century. And the gist of it was that they all died because of rock music (nevermind the cancer, the heart attacks and the car and plane crashes; those were clearly God's punishment), all proven with a bunch of random bible quotes.

 

Also, I think their idea of rock stars is a few decades behind, probably thanks to Gothard and his ilk. Wasn't the whole ATI movement successful at the start because parents were afraid that their kids would go all rebellious and rock'n'roll? To be fair, the 60's and 70's were full of dead musicians but things have calmed down since then haven't they? I can only think of four big rock stars who have died of the above mentioned causes in the past 25 years: Freddie Mercury, Kurt Cobain, Michael Hutchence and Amy Winehouse. Add a few lesser known ones and you still won't get anywhere near a 40 year life expectancy.

You made me think of a few more (band leaders, lead singers):

Jani Lane (Warrant), Ike Turner, Kevin DuBrow (Quiet Riot), Michael Jackson, Layne Staley (Alice In Chains), and Robbin Crosby (Ratt).

Mods, I'm sorry for getting off-topic.

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farmgal4

farmgal4

(edited)

This is the first time I've ever noticed a resemblance between Jill and Jana- I've always thought Jill had her own unique look. But with the clone outfits and curly-q's they look quite similar!

I know! That's what gets me! I just saw this book strongly recommended by someone who has otherwise made wise, well thought out decisions in her life. And she suggested this book as a great one to be a roadmap for a "wayward teen". I can't imagine how girls who hadn't been in any relationships yet can be taken as experts on the topic- basically the whole thing was/is a big experiment that we don't know the long term implications of (or we're just beginning to see....).

I must agree with Mountainair on the swaddling- my first had sensory issues and needed to be swaddled until about a year. Of course, we didn't just leave him laying there screaming, as this picture seems to indicate, but rocked him and used it as a tool along with other ways to get him calm and to sleep. My third child was similar; maybe not a full year, but we used the same blanket, and probably for several months as she was quite high strung and a terrible sleeper and the containment and body contact was needed to get her to sleep. So, I don't think I'd judge their parenting just on this pic- but I do find it strange that they'd photograph and post their child wrapped up, crying, and alone! Odd time to go grab the camera!

I do find it interesting that many people "sleep train" and leave their baby alone in a crib, unswaddled, to scream for 8, 12 hours, even to vomit alone, without parental comforting or intervention, and it's considered mainstream and acceptable, not abusive at all- there are many popular books about it out there! Yet simply swaddling at several months old is considered by some here as abusive?

I'm sorry, but I find it highly unlikely that a baby could scream/cry for 8-12 hours. May I ask where you read this? Edited by farmgal4
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

Do country stars count in the "rock star" statistic fold? Don't they sort of listen to some forms of that genre? If not,  I want to know how they explain Hank Williams and Patsy Cline, just to name two off the top of my head. You'd think they'd heard of (and Jizm Bob and Mechelle listened to) both in their "misspent" youths. And yes, I know Patsy died in a plane crash, but so did a lot of other musicians who continue to fly in small planes to their various gigs.

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queenanne

queenanne

Do country stars count in the "rock star" statistic fold? Don't they sort of listen to some forms of that genre? If not,  I want to know how they explain Hank Williams and Patsy Cline, just to name two off the top of my head. You'd think they'd heard of (and Jizm Bob and Mechelle listened to) both in their "misspent" youths. And yes, I know Patsy died in a plane crash, but so did a lot of other musicians who continue to fly in small planes to their various gigs.

 

Maybe.  Sometimes country stars are, for some maggoty reason, presumed/believed to be good God-fearin' Christians all, because they weren't raised or gravitating to them damn evil cities, plus going to church.  Whether the church attendance is more lip-servicey than not.

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PityFree

PityFree

I found the full book online. I think Jill must have written the bulk of it, it's brimming with her confident stupidity. "It was sad to find that on average, the life expectancy for rock artists and musicians is around forty; many of them die at a young age for reasons related to AIDS, drug or alcohol abuse, or suicides."

Silly Duggars. Don't they know that only the good die young?

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MarysWetBar

MarysWetBar

(edited)

Why are they lumping AIDS in with substance abuse? Oh nevermind...I'm so sick of this sanctimonious crew. I swear tho. .they ever badmouth Freddy, I'm heading to Arkansas.

I also don't get the swaddling. But then i don't get a lot of this new technical shit young parents do with babies. I worked with a guy that complained his three year old never slept thru the night and wouldn't stay in bed either. I don't think i was the exception in my generation either, but honestly. .my babies slept around six hours straight or more from three months of age. I didn't have to tie them in any maxiskirt infant straight jackets. .haha

They ate, they burped , they smiled, they pooped, they slept.

Jesus it isn't that complicated..what are these new parents doing???

Only issue i ever dealt with was colic..for around two months..and always at the decent hours of 4-7 p.m.

Sheesh.

Edited by MarysWetBar
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)

ETA: I found the ET clip, but it just says that she's "studying at home," so nothing new to see there. Sorry to be an alarmist! LOL

 

(for those who read before the edit, I read elsewhere that Jill had told ET that she'd stopped language lessons. The person telling the anecdote didn't add that she just meant going to the physical classroom. Ugh. Sorry)

Edited by Sew Sumi
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queenanne

queenanne

Why are they lumping AIDS in with substance abuse? Oh nevermind...I'm so sick of this sanctimonious crew. I swear tho. .they ever badmouth Freddy, I'm heading to Arkansas.

I also don't get the swaddling. But then i don't get a lot of this new technical shit young parents do with babies. I worked with a guy that complained his three year old never slept thru the night and wouldn't stay in bed either. I don't think i was the exception in my generation either, but honestly. .my babies slept around six hours straight or more from three months of age. I didn't have to tie them in any maxiskirt infant straight jackets. .haha

They ate, they burped , they smiled, they pooped, they slept.

Jesus it isn't that complicated..what are these new parents doing???

Only issue i ever dealt with was colic..for around two months..and always at the decent hours of 4-7 p.m.

Sheesh.

 

Don't they have "bed rails" anymore?  Which fit under the long sides of the mattress?  They kept me in bed when my parents didn't want to deal.  

 

Of course possible your coworkers have tried that.  I was a groggy waker, and probably thought it was too much effort to clamber over them if I woke mid-night.

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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

I agree, taking a pic when you baby is in distress like Iz was is disturbing. But......I have to admit I swaddled our youngest until she almost grew out of the largest size of swaddler. I want to say 9/10 months? On warm days we put on the air so she was comfortable. We placed her in the middle of one of those things that keeps babies elevated and they have two low rolls on the sides so they can't roll. And it was in a bassanet too. Right next to my side of the bed. My good friend who is a RN told me about them (she did the same with her kids, including twins) after I told her we were never able to get our oldest on a sleep schedule. It was hard at first, my husband is claustrophobic but once he saw the benefits, he was ok. she slept through the night at two weeks. Once we noticed she started "rocking" we stopped. She was such a peaceful baby. As soon as we swaddled her she would fall asleep within minutes. It was like a magic trick. Since she was born I have told scores of people about swaddling and for some it worked. So I'm going to think positive and think maybe they forgot to change Iz's diaper and that is why he was crying.

Neither of my daughters lasted more than 2 weeks swaddled. They absolutely hated it despite all of the advice to the contrary, some children just loathe it. 

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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

I'm sorry, but I find it highly unlikely that a baby could scream/cry for 8-12 hours. May I ask where you read this?

Baby Wise is the book and it's as abusive as it gets, imo. I don't think crying it out methods are that mainstream anymore, even talk of it when I was having my kids in 08 and 10 would get you jumped on by anyone not over the age of about 50. But much like the Pearls books, baby Wise has also been linked to the death of a few infants. It's sad honestly. 

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JenCarroll

JenCarroll

 

I can only think of four big rock stars who have died of the above mentioned causes in the past 25 years: Freddie Mercury, Kurt Cobain, Michael Hutchence and Amy Winehouse. Add a few lesser known ones and you still won't get anywhere near a 40 year life expectancy.

Whitney Houston.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

Pretty sure David Waller and Charlie Richards (formerly of Focus on the Family and creator of the Life at the Pond series) wrote -- and primarily conceptualized -- most of it. The above -- plus most of what else is in the book -- is a straight-up Bill Gothard talking point. And DW (as a Gothard henchman) and Richards (as a longtime professional writer) were surely hired not just to polish sentences but to make sure that the whole Duggar-favored ATI agenda was laid out clearly and in detail in the book.

You're correct

"ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

WE ARE SO GRATEFUL to all of the following people who have invested their time and energy to make this book a reality:

Charlie Richards, who asked us older girls a lot of questions one day about how our parents have raised us, then insisted that we document our answers in a book to help young ladies and their parents. Charlie also spent a lot of time with us helping us type up and articulate our life experiences to illustrate the principles we live by.

Priscilla and David Waller (Anna Duggar’s sister and brother-in-law), who were instrumental in interjecting illustrations and principles that would connect young ladies with practical tips they could apply to everyday life. Anna and Priscilla grew up helping their dad with a prison ministry and have hearts to help young people make right decisions in their lives."

Growing Up Duggar makes a boring read, but every so often they'll say something that's just WTF. The J-slaves were "glitter bomb security" for Santorum. Anna on meeting Josh for the first time "My siblings and I enjoyed meeting Joshua, and as we introduced ourselves I was amazed that he was able to guess our ages correctly! Usually people would think I was five to seven years older than I really was, and it was getting quite embarrassing."

Edited by Kokapetl
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

You're correct

"ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

WE ARE SO GRATEFUL to all of the following people who have invested their time and energy to make this book a reality:

Charlie Richards, who asked us older girls a lot of questions one day about how our parents have raised us, then insisted that we document our answers in a book to help young ladies and their parents. Charlie also spent a lot of time with us helping us type up and articulate our life experiences to illustrate the principles we live by.

Priscilla and David Waller (Anna Duggar’s sister and brother-in-law), who were instrumental in interjecting illustrations and principles that would connect young ladies with practical tips they could apply to everyday life. Anna and Priscilla grew up helping their dad with a prison ministry and have hearts to help young people make right decisions in their lives."

Growing Up Duggar makes a boring read, but every so often they'll say something that's just WTF. The J-slaves were "glitter bomb security" for Santorum. Anna on meeting Josh for the first time "My siblings and I enjoyed meeting Joshua, and as we introduced ourselves I was amazed that he was able to guess our ages correctly! Usually people would think I was five to seven years older than I really was, and it was getting quite embarrassing."

Oh my, Prissy helped?  And having experience with a prison ministry is a helpful requisite for writing this book?

 

Yet they didn't look for input from Rock Stars? ;)

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

Do country stars count in the "rock star" statistic fold? Don't they sort of listen to some forms of that genre? If not,  I want to know how they explain Hank Williams and Patsy Cline, just to name two off the top of my head. You'd think they'd heard of (and Jizm Bob and Mechelle listened to) both in their "misspent" youths. And yes, I know Patsy died in a plane crash, but so did a lot of other musicians who continue to fly in small planes to their various gigs.

 

Well, it's really from the half dead lips of old Bill G, not from the Duggs .... so that obviously makes a difference. My impression is that he doesn't cotton to any pop music, country probably included (along with country dances from the 18th century and so on -- and I'm not kidding!). I don't think he approves of anything except some of the less-stirring hymn tunes and some of the very tamest Bach and Mozart. (I can't see him approving of Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations or Don Giovanni, for example.)...... I assume he's scared to death of any music that would encourage him in the least bit to sway his body -- or think a thought that isn't incredibly, 2 million percent confining. (and that's most music).     He's the one I'd really like to hear a true detailed account of in childhood, and a psychoanalysis because, wow -- he makes the Duggars look sane to me ...

 

But anyway, beyond all that, I think, as others -- maybe including you! -- have said here, the point of all this is to keep the young from swaying to music or being intrigued by anything that seems to be new and cool. ... So when he started all this, that trend in music was rock. So that's what he went for, trying to hammer the evils of rock home with the promise that hating rock would keep your kids locked up under your control .... Don't bother him with facts about other types of music and musicians. (Although they're almost all bad, too!)

 

I would so  love to know the story of ye olde Gothard homestead. Their parents spawned at least two molesters, and all three sons are grifters (at least) and the one is a flat-out blatant ponzi schemer, using BG's "church" group as his source for marks .... And yet old Bill, despite his iniquity, also seems to be the biggest scaredy cat on the face of the earth. WTF are the genetic and environmental components of that kind of mess? (and I wonder what the sisters have been up to....)

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bigskygirl

bigskygirl

Once again, this the Dilliards thread. Take the book ,rock and roll singers, and Gothard somewhere else. Keep the discussion on the Dillards or find your posts hidden or deleted. I am sure there are other places in the internet world to talk about the book or singers. Thank you.

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louannems

louannems

My first thought when seeing Izzy crying it out in the swaddle was the Baby Wize book. In the early 1980's, this book was extremely popular in my Seventh Day Adventist Church. They actually held classes on the book and this type of "parenting". I saw and heard so many infants and toddlers being spanked that it I quit the church.

I just hope that Derick and Jill are better read in current, more humane ways to treat babies! After all, Michelle seemed to always have a baby attached to her, and Jill does wear Izzy and attachment parenting and nursing on demand are both against the controlling Baby Wize and To Train Up A Child books.

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Gweilo

Gweilo

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https://www.instagram.com/p/BAIUcdNDfjT/

Izzy and Spurgeon are Skyping!

Heh, one of the comments on that post is "Please pray for me- I've lost a very important thing and you were the first person I could think of to ask. All prayers accepted"

My questions in order of WTF-ness:

1. Is the person you want to ask Izzy or Sturgeon? Because I'm pretty sure that at the moment they're only good at finding nipples.

2. Have you lost a nipple? In which case, good choice.

3. If youre asking Jessa, the only thing Jessa is good at finding is the bad side in, oh, everything.

4. So when you want to ask someome to pray for you, you have to jump on to social media to find the world's most narcissistic Christian?

5. Are Hindu prayers accepted? Vishnu has 4 arms so that might make him better at reaching under the couch.

6. I know you've tried prayer, but have you tried looking?

Besides, everyone knows that for lost things you pray to St Anthony. Duh.

On topic, Izzy seems like a happy baby.

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Micks Picks

Micks Picks

If you are asking for someone else to intercede and ask God for help for you, you just did a Catholic forbidden thing.  You are putting JillDill in the position of a saint.  So I guess you should never expect JIllDill to intercede and say a prayer for you, because they can't and won't.  In which case why do they ask for prayers.  They are on their own.  According to your religion, you can't ask me to pray and according to my religion you can't ask me to give you money.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

There's a new video on DillardFamily.com called "Israel Tries a Pickle" and it really is cute, especially the noises Izzy makes when he's gumming the pickle

Edited by Kokapetl
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springtime

springtime

I don't like the pickle video.

Izzy seems to like the texture but not the taste.

I wish they put it on a highchair tray- so he had the choice to pick it up, taste it and decide whether to keep chewing on it

Wish they would stop filming these videos (things forced on him)

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cereality

cereality

What is going on with Derick? Was just looking at Jill's instagram and Derick doesn't look well. I mean he always looks like he needs a shower and a haircut, but in certain pics his eyes look totally "swollen"/dark circles and in pics where he's wearing a t shirt, it's kind of surprising to see how thin his arms/entire body looks. Even a 26 yr old male who doesn't work out has a certain amount of bicep muscle; even in the birthday pic of Jed/Jer -- they look a bit bigger than their brother in law and they're only 17. It looks like he's lost weight everywhere, which happens to people when they're several decades older than him. I know the surgery took his toll bc he couldn't eat, but honestly after such a rough surgery/recovery -- couldn't they have put off their "mission." I don't see how learning Spanish and preaching the gospel can't wait until next yr -- it's not like those opportunities are time limited in any way. You'd think it'd be easier to recover in the relative comforts of the U.S. rather than the developing world. And if they HAD to go/he really desperately wanted to get away from the Duggar scandals/didn't want to change his plans -- I wonder if he's doing anything to bolster his health while he's there. He looks like he should be eating as much as he can and then supplementing every meal with Ensure/Boost/nutrition drinks just for the calories. Not sure if that's available in Central America but developing nations typically do have nutrition supplements on the market, as they tend to have lots of folks who just cannot afford adequate nutrition and are prescribed those things if their health gets bad.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

Cereality, I'm not sure what's up with Derick. They live within driving distance to WalMart, which I'm assuming carries similar products to the ones here in the U.S. Since Jill's Sesame Street midwifery diploma is practically the same thing as an M.D., you'd think she would've already recommended nutrition shakes.

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Barb23

Barb23

You would have thought by now Derick would have gained his weight back. Hasn't it been approx 9 months since he had the surgery? Like Cereality said, he just has the overall sickly look about him, not just being thin. Maybe all the stress is catching up with him. (Quick courtship, wedding, Cathy being sick, birth of Israel, leaving Wal-Mart, Duggar scandals)

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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

I know the surgery took his toll bc he couldn't eat, but honestly after such a rough surgery/recovery -- couldn't they have put off their "mission." I don't see how learning Spanish and preaching the gospel can't wait until next yr -- it's not like those opportunities are time limited in any way. You'd think it'd be easier to recover in the relative comforts of the U.S. rather than the developing world.

IMHO of course.

They're running from something. And I think Triple D is unwilling to have the showdown with his in-laws that would allow them to continue living elsewhere in the US without the Duggars' interference. He's also dealing with a wife who can't make an independent decision and is still ruled by her parents.

 

I've said it before: They could have gotten the same "immersion classes" in any primarily Hispanic area of the US like LA. They chose not to. Central America is a plane ride away but most press outlets aren't going to spend the money to chase them there. And I wonder if Jilly Muffin is very afraid of finding herself somehow caught up in the mess of her older brother's litigation, or Victim #5 filing suit as well.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

Interesting take, Missy Vixen. So do you think Jill is hiding out in CA as a way to avoid a deposition in the civil suit? Which then begs the question, is there something even worse the Duggars are hiding and it just hasn't come out yet?

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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

Interesting take, Missy Vixen. So do you think Jill is hiding out in CA as a way to avoid a deposition in the civil suit? Which then begs the question, is there something even worse the Duggars are hiding and it just hasn't come out yet?

I agree with JoanArc. It's a nice way of avoiding what's happening in their families and putting themselves out of reach for any of the legal hijinks. I realize I'm already Cynical McCrankypants, but who acts like this? Seriously. Instead of putting the bucks they banked from TLC, People and God knows what other entities are paying them to good use to get trained as actual missionaries, they're playing patty-cake with SOS and "evangetourism". They're not fooling anyone but themselves. If they really wanted to do good and learn Spanish where they could also deal with Triple D's recovery and the fact that Jilly Muffin is going to have to live in the OB/GYN's office for her next Precious Blessing, there's a hundred communities around the United States that would be more suitable than a living in a country that they don't speak the language well enough to have an actual conversation with anyone who's not pre-approved.

 

Triple D can run, but at some point it's going to become clear: He can't live on the "mission field" indefinitely without a steady influx of cash. Is SOS paying them that well? It would be fascinating to know how they think they're getting enough cash now that it's been widely disseminated that they're not forthcoming on what they're doing with the donations. This is an awful lot of fuss and bother for a spinoff show. There's another reason why they're doing this. And I am wondering how long it will be before that reason (or "reasons") explodes all over the tabloids.

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