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Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!


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Shout out to everyone participating in the conversation about Jill’s miscarriage/stillbirth. You’re navigating a difficult topic with respect and thoughtfulness and your contributions are kind, considerate, constructive and informative. 

Thank you. 💚💚

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(edited)
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No, that's not right. He spent 12 grand to basically be an intern for Cross Church (his home church). 

No, that's not right either. His donators spent  12 grand basically for him to be an intern for Cross Church

DragonFaerie, I can start a GoFundMe for you so you can quit your job and get your PhD in Math!

Edited by WhineandCheez
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1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I think it's more like a class/education/sophistication thing.  Lots and lots of Americans eat a lot of canned food. I certainly know a ton of midwesterners who do. ...

It's also a generational/poverty issue. I have a lot of church recipe books from the 60s-80s that are filled with cream of whatever soup and other canned foods. On top of this, most foods from food banks are cans of whatever plus boxed meals and if your food budget is low, it's a lot cheaper to buy boxed mac & cheese (3 for $1, store brand), a can of green beans (4 for $1), and a can of peaches (50 cents) then it is to buy macaroni, cheese, and fresh fruits & vegetable. After a couple of generations of eating like this, it becomes the norm even if you can afford better.

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I wonder if Jill's reliance on canned ingredients dates back to when the family was really poor.  Canned food lasts a long time, and I can see the "love offerings" including a lot of canned meats.  That also would have been before you could get rotisserie chickens for 5 bucks each at Walmart or Sams.  So Michelle (or the older daughters) would have to use whatever food that was donated to them.  That BBQ tuna monstrosity seems to me to be a way to use whatever was in the pantry to make a meal for the family.  And then JB loved it so they continued.  Their palates must be so jacked up that fresh food tastes horrible to them. 

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1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, sorry about my phrasing -- I knew you weren't. I  just thought that, based on your wording, anybody who didn't know the current deal with Cross Church might not see that he was likely trying to climb high by this maneuver .... That's such a theme with me that I didn't want anybody to miss it!

I really appreciate your insights and I didn't know how connected Cross Church was, so thanks!  I think it's a good thing to discuss the attempts of some groups to spread a destructive belief system and tie it up in a pretty package, hoping the country will swallow it gladly.  These discussions need to be kept alive and people need to be called out on their hypocrisy, 

I also loved your info about food in America.  You're spot on.  Your info definitely described my depression-era relatives from the midwest.

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47 minutes ago, Nysha said:

It's also a generational/poverty issue. I have a lot of church recipe books from the 60s-80s that are filled with cream of whatever soup and other canned foods. On top of this, most foods from food banks are cans of whatever plus boxed meals and if your food budget is low, it's a lot cheaper to buy boxed mac & cheese (3 for $1, store brand), a can of green beans (4 for $1), and a can of peaches (50 cents) then it is to buy macaroni, cheese, and fresh fruits & vegetable. After a couple of generations of eating like this, it becomes the norm even if you can afford better.

definitely

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I watched the Laverne Cox episode of Who Do You Think You Are? and she reminded me so much of Jill because of the number of times she exclaimed Yay! I found it a little ironic plus it made me want to see Laverne Cox and Jill do an Amazing Race or Simple Life type thing together except that I don't hate Laverne Cox and would not wish Jill upon her.

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I know we like to snark - but it's complete rubbish that anyone is too old for a birthday treat - especially a sundae dripping in hot fudge.  I can't fault them for that one. 

 

And I use canned chicken for my chicken salad too.  It's not that bad.  Would I eat it straight out of the can?? HELLLL NO.  but my cats love it.  Her chicken salad recipe is pretty basic but not out of the norm.  She just needs more seasonings.  I can't remember if I use mayo or miracle whip but then I add tomatoes and some seasonings. And it's actually really good.  But as a lover of broccoli cheese soup - that stuff looked disgusting. 

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I also use canned chicken for my chicken salad. Miracle whip and some pickle relish. I can't stand grapes and nuts in it, and neither can my husband. But chicken salad is a really basic recipe. I don't know anyone who doesn't know how to make it. Next, she'll be showing us how to make toast. 

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35 minutes ago, QuinnInND said:

I also use canned chicken for my chicken salad. Miracle whip and some pickle relish. I can't stand grapes and nuts in it, and neither can my husband. But chicken salad is a really basic recipe. I don't know anyone who doesn't know how to make it. Next, she'll be showing us how to make toast. 

I like to put relish in tuna salad. 

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Just checking in if Derick is pushing for a boycott of ABC. But now that I think about it, his thoughts about it are probably all too confusing.

Hey Jessa, if you're reading this ask Jill to post a recipe for an all around healthy meal, sides and all. Any meal she chooses, just a healthy one.

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1 minute ago, momofsquid said:

I have no problem with using canned chicken. My problem is that there is a grown woman who believes that anyone needs a recipe to make a basic chicken sandwich.

But ... she adds lemon, pulp and all!

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I laughed out loud in the car (passenger) when I saw that recipe.  When I saw chicken salad, I said to myself, its gonna say chicken and mayo. AAAAAAND....nailed it! I also use canned chicken from costco in limited applications, including that hot Buffalo chicken cream cheese dip.   

 

Next up: egg salad. Eggs, mayo, salt ad pepper! GENUIS!!!

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Hashbrown Casserole-Duggar Style

May 30, 2018 | Recipes | 0 

This recipe makes one 9×13″ pan, or double it to fill one big industrial pan to feed a tribe! This is another quick, delicious casserole to feed the crowds!

1 (32oz./2lb.) bag frozen, shredded hashbrowns

2 cans cream of chicken condensed soup

1/2 C milk

2 tsp. onion powder

2 tsp. salt

1/2 tsp. pepper

2 C. grated cheddar cheese

Topping:

1/4 C. melted butter

3 C. cornflakes

1 gallon Ziplock bag for mixing/crunching

Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Grease one 9×13″ casserole dish. Mix ingredients (except toppings) in mixing bowl and spread in pan. In gallon ziplock bag, make topping by crunching cornflakes and mixing cornflakes with melted butter. Spread topping over casserole and bake in oven at 350 degrees for 45 min.

00AA6F2C-A473-46C6-A3C2-6E7CCB730B10.jpeg

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Can we switch the channel now?

Since it's a given that Jill's food is vomit inducing, I'll simply comment on the basics. Her use of English continues to be . . . interesting. "Crunching" cornflakes? Her command of math, at least, appears to be stronger--she appears to know that there are 16 ounnces to a pound.

3 minutes ago, Trillium said:

I don’t even care if these recipes are unhealthy or used canned ingredients.  My issue with them is that the are a thousand other websites with better versions, or at the very least better instructions and photos of the same exact thing

 

Dear Jill, You are not enlightening anyone with your culinary talents or ideas. 

I think this is what happens when you spend nearly your entire life, from childhood into young adulthood, on television for the public's consumption and you're fully aware of it. You grow up with the belief that you're special when the reality is that you're merely mediocre.

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12 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Cornflake topping hashbrown casserole. I am speechless!

Just when we thought it couldn't possibly get any worse....

I've seen recipes for hash brown casserole before but they usually include diced ham along with chopped up peppers and onion. I've never seen one that was just potatoes and soup. Blech.

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6 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Just when we thought it couldn't possibly get any worse....

I've seen recipes for hash brown casserole before but they usually include diced ham along with chopped up peppers and onion. I've never seen one that was just potatoes and soup. Blech.

The version she posted is pretty common potluck staple here. I don’t care for it but my husband loves it, so if I make it I don’t use cream of chicken, I use milk, chicken broth, and flour and some spices depending on who’s eating it. I usually do garlic and caramelized onions. But I know plenty of people who make it her way and have for decades. There’s nothing Duggar or original about this at all. 

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Gotta admit, I make hashbrown casserole similar to the Duggar recipe every Easter to serve with ham.  It's virtually devoid of nutritional value, but that's why we only have it for a special holiday treat. Kind of like the carb- and sodium-laden cornbread dressing we enjoy at Thanksgiving. 

Who is she posting this for?  As I've said before, I think most younger adults would be grossed out by the recipe, and most people over 40 are  already familiar with it.  I probably have at least 10 cookbooks with some variation of the same recipe.

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7 hours ago, Nysha said:

if your food budget is low, it's a lot cheaper to buy boxed mac & cheese (3 for $1, store brand), a can of green beans (4 for $1), and a can of peaches (50 cents) then it is to buy macaroni, cheese, and fresh fruits & vegetable.

I've found that I'd you eat seasonally, around me fresh is cheaper, or at least comparable in price. None of my stores have anything, even store brand, for 3 or 4 for $1. Maaaaybe on sale, but I can't say for sure.

For example, right now a 14oz can of green beans is $0.79. Fresh green beans are $0.89/lb. A 7oz box of store brand mac and cheese is $0.75, but a 16oz box of elbow macaroni is $1.00. 14oz of store brand canned peaches (in heavy syrup) is $1.19. Fresh peaches are $0.99/lb.

I get using canned or frozen stuff for convenience. I have stuff like that on hand for when I'm lazy or can get to the store. But because I'm cooking for myself I've found I eat healthier and for less of if I make the trips a week to the store and just buy fresh seasonal things. 

Jill is a homemaker. Nothing against that, but if her life supposed to be about keeping house then she should be able to manage dumping cans into a casserole dish. Heck, I work 40 hours a week and have a social life and still manage to do better. (My biggest struggle is cooking for one!)

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1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Just when we thought it couldn't possibly get any worse....

I've seen recipes for hash brown casserole before but they usually include diced ham along with chopped up peppers and onion. I've never seen one that was just potatoes and soup. Blech.

Everything the Duggars make is made of potatoes and soup. 

Either that or they just buy it at Burger King

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That hash brown mess looks disgusting. And the corn flakes just makes it worse. Ugh.  Here is what my husband made for dinner over the weekend.

 

 Brussel sprout "salad".

Saute chopped Brussel sprouts and chopped white onion in olive oil. Add turkey sausage. Season with salt, pepper and a dash of tobasco sauce.  Jill's head would explode trying to make it, I'm sure. 

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On May 29, 2018 at 5:23 PM, ginger90 said:

I promise I am NOT making this up.

 

Refreshing Chicken Salad

May 29, 2018 | Recipes | 0 

This makes a super yummy summer lunch! The freshly squeezed lemon sets this chicken salad off, giving it its amazing flavor!

1 can chicken (12.5oz., drained)

3-4 T mayo

salt (to taste)

pepper (to taste)

1 lemon* (squeeze lemon, making sure to include some pulp too!)

Mix all ingredients together except lemon juice. Add lemon juice 1 tablespoon at a time until desired flavor (I like A LOT of lemon juice!). Serve over a bed of lettuce, as a sandwich, or with crackers for a tasty snack!

71E11CF6-A014-4546-82AC-7F62C73CED1D.jpeg

I'm truly speechless.

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3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Just when we thought it couldn't possibly get any worse....

I've seen recipes for hash brown casserole before but they usually include diced ham along with chopped up peppers and onion. I've never seen one that was just potatoes and soup. Blech.

And cheese. Mustn't forget the cheese. And it actually calls for Cheddar this time, rather than Velveeta. Yay?

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(edited)
9 hours ago, Nysha said:

I think it's more like a class/education/sophistication thing.  Lots and lots of Americans eat a lot of canned food. I certainly know a ton of midwesterners who do. ...

I'm pretty sure it's a shaped-by-history thing. For most of the 20th century, the U.S. food system was quite different from today's food system. It's a huge country, and unless you lived in certain areas, fresh food took a LONG time to get from farm to table, and so much less of it ever even showed up in your market. 

 

Same with the -- Oh, so blaaand! 

This is true for a lot of Swedes as well, especially the older generations, for many of the reasons you listed. Not so much with canned food perhaps but a lot of the other things you mention. My maternal grandparents were working class, born in the 1910s and lived most of their lives in a small village in the remote north. They used salt and white pepper in their cooking, and maaaybe a little allspice if they were feeling fancy. Judging by what my mum tells me, the vegetables available when she was growing up in the 50s were essentialy potatoes, carrots, rutabagas and canned peas because very few things grew that far up north. They did have an absolutely luxurious field of strawberries each summer but my aunt ate her very first tomato as a teenager in the 40s. Once, when I was visiting in the 90s, I wanted to make a lemon pie and I had to use one of those little squeeze bottles of canned lemon juice because fresh lemons were just not a thing.

And unless you lived in one of the larger cities, pizza and fake chinese food was about as exotic as things got foodwise up until maybe 20 years ago. I had my first piece of sushi in my early twenties and my first taste of kimchi only last year.

The thing is though, food culture has changed immensely in the past decade or two. In Sweden this is partly due to increased immigration and travel but in general, I think, it is because of the Internet. People have become far more aware of different cuisines and more eager to try them even when there's no prior history which IMO is why Jill's cooking efforts looks so clueless and sloppy. She is a young woman with access to all the Pinterest, Tumblr and blogs in the world (and she is aware of them because she's clearly trying to emulate them). Not to mention that she is far more well-travelled than most people thanks to TLC and so has been exposed to all sorts of different food. And yet we keep getting pictures of casseroles of gloop and gluey sauce with huge chunks of broccoli claiming to be soup. I don't think this is about her ancestry so much as it is about Jill.

Edited by Vaysh
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9 hours ago, Nysha said:

It's also a generational/poverty issue. I have a lot of church recipe books from the 60s-80s that are filled with cream of whatever soup and other canned foods. On top of this, most foods from food banks are cans of whatever plus boxed meals and if your food budget is low, it's a lot cheaper to buy boxed mac & cheese (3 for $1, store brand), a can of green beans (4 for $1), and a can of peaches (50 cents) then it is to buy macaroni, cheese, and fresh fruits & vegetable. After a couple of generations of eating like this, it becomes the norm even if you can afford better.

 

10 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I think it's more like a class/education/sophistication thing.  Lots and lots of Americans eat a lot of canned food. I certainly know a ton of midwesterners who do. ...

I'm pretty sure it's a shaped-by-history thing. For most of the 20th century, the U.S. food system was quite different from today's food system. It's a huge country, and unless you lived in certain areas, fresh food took a LONG time to get from farm to table, and so much less of it ever even showed up in your market.  And it was a lot more expensive, too, in most cases.Plus, in earlier days older people still dimly remembered enough about farms to worry more about animal poop and dirty hands everywhere and their effects on food safety -- and there was less regulation of food safety, too. So all those facts gave a preference to cans (frozen-food tech took a lot longer to develop) -- as well as to overcooking the heck out of fresh vegetables, for example, when they DID appear .............

Those facts established eating traditions in a lot of families and communities. And home-life traditions like that tend to persist for generations, I think, except among particularly adventurous or thinking people who decide to try something different. And, as we know, the Duggars haven't produced many adventurous or thinking people. They're just leaving a holdover of their great grandparents' Depression-era eating habits, seems to me. .... .I've seen this a lot among my own family and acquaintance, too. Their eating habits aren't unusual when you look at Americans as a whole, I expect. 

Same with the -- Oh, so blaaand!  ... Read the history of food in America in the 20th century -- right up until pretty recently -- and you'll see that that was absolutely the tradition......And the Duggars are OLD American stock, of the came-from-the-British-Isles-and-took-root-in-the-U.S.-centuries-ago, too. Not a family with immigrant traditions from countries that have had a more persistent fresh-food tradition.

And most people don't throw traditions over all that easily. Food traditions are kind of rote because most people don't care much and most people really really like and are attached to the tastes they knew as babies and children...........Salt, pepper, mayonnaise and lemon juice ARE fresh and interesting flavors when you've eaten that way...............My own family didn't even put salt on much of anything, and we didn't even have plain old black pepper in the house. The salt and pepper shaker set had one shaker that had never been used. 

My husband has a hobby of collecting old cookbooks. Some show holdovers from trying to "stretch" ingredients like meat that were either too expensive (Depression) or scarce (wartime rationing). Some are designed to maximize the use of some new ingredient (instant gelatin!) or appliance. Fortunately most of the revolting stuff he finds is no longer used, and I STRONGLY continue to contend that NOTHING with jello can POSSIBLY ever be a salad. . . yet all the native Midwesterners here constantly refer to "jello salad." UGH. Let's hope Jill has no great connection to gelatin.

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I’m reminded of the egg-and-potato breakfast casserole we used to make when camping, which was typically referred to as “Catastrophe”.  That would probably describe a lot of these recipes, really. 

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7 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Maybe add in some chopped apple or grapes and walnuts? 

Would Jill even know what a Waldorf Salad was?  

It makes me wonder if any of the Duggars ever picked up an actual cookbook?  Many of them have pictures of how the recipe is supposed to look.

I look up recipes online a lot, but I still have an actual cookbook collection.  My depression era mother had cookbooks as well.  One can get them at Goodwill and Salvation Army for next to nothing!

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Now I'm wondering about Jill's recipes. I've been getting ads for funeral potatoes, and it's the same as Jill's. It's supposed to be big with Mormons for potlucks, funerals, weddings and the like. A company that makes survival meals (what you need during those horrible days 'til the second coming) even sells funeral potatoes in a heat and eat bag style.  May be a coincidence, since it seems I'm the only one seeing the recipe/ads...

 https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/05/30/613017175/if-it-s-the-end-of-the-world-make-sure-funeral-potatoes-are-on-the-table

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(edited)
21 minutes ago, Catlyn said:

Now I'm wondering about Jill's recipes. I've been getting ads for funeral potatoes, and it's the same as Jill's. It's supposed to be big with Mormons for potlucks, funerals, weddings and the like. A company that makes survival meals (what you need during those horrible days 'til the second coming) even sells funeral potatoes in a heat and eat bag style.  May be a coincidence, since it seems I'm the only one seeing the recipe/ads...

 https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/05/30/613017175/if-it-s-the-end-of-the-world-make-sure-funeral-potatoes-are-on-the-table

I was going to post that exact article but you beat me to it. Evidently the ad is making people who have never heard of funeral potatoes a bit uncomfortable. As well as those of us who have had to read Jill's recipe.

(Cook's Country did a modern remake of this recipe a few years back, involving zero canned sodium soup. It wasn't bad but it was way too bland for my palate.)

Edited by jcbrown
to clarify that it is making people who have not heard of funeral potatoes uncomfortabe, though the original ambiguity that I may have been talking about people who had not heard of the Duggars works, too.
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(edited)

I have noticed a tendency from the Duggars and the Bates families (I don’t follow any other IBLP/IFB families) to think that everything they do is super special. I think Jill’s recipes are a symptom of this.  I think it comes from being raised so sheltered and isolated and only interacting with like-minded families combined with their parents telling them everything they do is amazing. (See Lawson Bates’s music “career”.) It starts with being the best Christians and carries over into everything else they do.  They have no basis for comparison so they believe what they are told. To Jill, those recipes are great because, in her world, they are all she knows so they must be amazing. Most of the Bates and Duggar kids have now been exposed to more things thanks to the tv shows and their spouses.  Jill especially has been exposed to many different ethnic foods, but for some reason they still cling to that “everything we do and grew up doing is amazing” mentality that they were raised with. 

Edited by EVS
To correct “IBLP”
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14 minutes ago, EVS said:

I have noticed a tendency from the Duggars and the Bates families (I don’t follow any other IBLF/IFB families) to think that everything they do is super special. I think Jill’s recipes are a symptom of this.  I think it comes from being raised so sheltered and isolated and only interacting with like-minded families combined with their parents telling them everything they do is amazing. (See Lawson Bates’s music “career”.) It starts with being the best Christians and carries over into everything else they do.  They have no basis for comparison so they believe what they are told. To Jill, those recipes are great because, in her world, they are all she knows so they must be amazing. Most of the Bates and Duggar kids have now been exposed to more things thanks to the tv shows and their spouses.  Jill especially has been exposed to many different ethnic foods, but for some reason they still cling to that “everything we do and grew up doing is amazing” mentality that they were raised with. 

I'm going with "navel-gazing dimwit" as the reason.

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(edited)

Far be it from me to say something nice about Jill Duggar, but I'm giving her a break on the chicken salad.  I always keep a couple of cans of chicken in my cupboard for a quick lunch when I'm busy.  I make an egg salad and add a small can of chicken to it with some seasoning.  It looks something like Jill's but it's mighty tasty as a sandwich.

Edited by Gemma Violet
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(edited)
13 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

I'm going with "navel-gazing dimwit" as the reason.

This made me laugh but I agree that I don’t think Jill is very bright. I think the (relatively) smarter ones are starting to realize that outsiders might not find them as amazing as they find themselves and are more careful about what they post on SM. Jill hasn't figured that out yet, but she keeps trying  That attitude is fine with Instagram recipes, but a serious problem when it comes to thinking she is a qualified midwife.

Edited by EVS
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8 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Far be it from me to say something nice about Jill Duggar, but I'm giving her a break on the chicken salad.  I always keep a couple of cans of chicken in my cupboard for a quick lunch when I'm busy.  I made an egg salad and add a small can of chicken to it with some seasoning.  It looks something like Jill's but it's mighty tasty as a sandwich.

For me, it is not that she used canned chicken, but that she thinks that such a basic recipe is worth sharing. Most people know to add Mayo to canned tuna or chicken. Adding lemon isn’t anything special. A recipe can be simple but worth sharing like the one shared by @QuinnInND, but Jill either shares things a preteen might figure out how to put together, or really unhealthy recipes with thrown together ingredients (mostly involving cream soups and/or tater tots) that don’t look or sound very appetizing. 

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20 minutes ago, EVS said:

This made me laugh but I agree that I don’t think Jill is very bright. I think the (relatively) smarter ones are starting to realize that outsiders might not find them as amazing as they find themselves and are more careful about what they post on SM. Jill hasn't figured that out yet, but she keeps trying  That attitude is fine with Instagram recipes, but a serious problem when it comes to thinking she is a qualified midwife.

Or thinking that she is qualified to homeschool Izzy and Sam.

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Plus all of her recipes come from circa 1975. I also make a similar hash brown casserole to go with ham for Christmas and Easter. I make it because that’s what my beloved grandmother made. Jill’s waxes a little bit nostalgic about the broccoli cheese product soup, but that’s about it. It’s not like she is posting interesting new recipes and then throws in the hash brown casserole as an oldie but a goodie. 

You would think there would be a stated attempt to modernize the recipes or to make them healthier, or with more vegetables, or appealing to kids, etc.

As someone said up thread, who is her audience?!

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5 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

Is Jill posting a "new" recipe every day?  Shouldn't she be pacing herself, so that she still has something to say in a month's time? 

I truly don't think she is even thinking that far ahead. Even Ree Drummond who has built an empire around her blog and recipes doesn't post a new recipe every day. Jill is like a child. She is currently obsessed with the novelty of posting recipes and receiving feedback. She will eventually realize that it's too hard or too much work to come up with new "recipes", and move on to something else to obsessively post about (housecleaning tips? frugal living tips?). 

Her newest slop recipe is a more disgusting version of one of my favorite Iowa staples... funeral potatoes. You can tell that she took the picture because she actually managed to burn most of the Corn Flakes. Her arrogance at posting such a bad picture is astonishing.

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One of my favorite podcasts is The Happy Hour with Jamie Ivey. Jamie is maybe fundie-lite? Each week she interviews a Christian woman who is for real making a difference. I always think about Jessa and Jill’s half-hearted attempts at being a resource to Christian moms, because there are at least hundreds of Christian moms who are actually doing, and doing it well, what Jessa and Jill think they are doing. There is not a void that they would easily fill.

Anywho, today’s guest is from NW Arkansas! Amy Hannon. She has a shop, a cookbook, and a local cooking show. All are God-centered, naturally. While I was looking up more info about her, I stumbled upon this blog 

http://arkansaswomenbloggers.com/

There’s a conference coming up with featured speakers. And who isn’t a part of the Christian cooking show, or the Arkansas women’s blog, or the Megaphone Summit? That’s right, any Duggar. 

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(edited)

The other reason Jill may think these recipes are special is that very few people eat this way anymore. If she is inviting young people from their college group, especially international students, they've probably never had Tator Tot Casserole or Chickenetti and while the amount of grease and sodium sounds disgusting, the fact is, they both taste pretty good. She gets complimented for her dinner and told they've never had anything like that before and she starts to think maybe the rest of the world has never heard of her family's favorite meals, either.  And, she's been brought up to believe that everything her family does is special and deserves to be on the Internet, plus she desperately wants to find new grifting money-making gig that keeps her in the spotlight, so she's going for the Suzy Home Cook blog even though a quick check on Google would show that there are 10-year-olds who can both cook and write better than she does doing the same thing.

Edited by Nysha
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