Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Oldernowiser]

As to why this is coming out now...I had a terrible thought. With the recent insta-couples getting married, what if one of the girls experienced flashbacks? It wouldn't be that unusual to have buried a traumatic event mentally, especially as I'm sure the pressure to do so was enormous, only to have that memory triggered by a physical experience.

I so hope this didn't happen...

[LilyoftheValley]

Yes does anyone know how this got leaked now?  

[Cherrio]

As to why this is coming out now...I had a terrible thought. With the recent insta-couples getting married, what if one of the girls experienced flashbacks? It wouldn't be that unusual to have buried a traumatic event mentally, especially as I'm sure the pressure to do so was enormous, only to have that memory triggered by a physical experience.

I so hope this didn't happen...

Wow, this is a very plausible theory.      

[Angeltoes]

I bet that Derick's step-dad (who always looked like he smelled a strong fart when he was around the Duggars) turned to his wife and said,"I told you they were assholes."

Edited May 24, 2015 by Angeltoes

[Cherrio]

I wanted to comment about CNN today. I usually watch it all day long on Saturdays and today was no exception.

 

They ran a few Duggar segments and had the pundits around for their opinions.  Usually its always one side and the other .......right?  Well, not today. Both sides were in agreement and disgusted to the point where there were some faces made.  Even when it got political, they agreed.

[MarysWetBar]

The ONLY reason I want the show to continue is to see mama June try to sue TLC.

Oh i can't believe she didn't just disappear back into the filthy hole she came out of in the first place. My mom would have said "Well doesn't she just have BRASS!"Honestly after all she did and neglected to do. .how does she even have the nerve to show her face and shoot off her piehole at all? Shame on her,too. Edited May 24, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[Dejana]

blindgossip.com/?p=71479#more-71479

Blind gossip is reporting that the studio executives knew about the abuse and did nothing.

BlindGossip has a habit of "revealing" insider info after the scandal has become a big story, i.e. when it's very easy to take known facts and put a gossipy twist on them. The site's done that for years and years with Hollywood celebrities. Not to say that TLC didn't know years earlier, but I'd want much more confirmation than an after-the-fact BlindGossip item.

I want to know exactly what Josh told Anna, word for word: was it just that he made "mistakes", and she was pressured not to ask for details? The way that TLC presented the engagement timeline back in 2008, it didn't seem as though they'd already known each other two years.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Dejana

[pinguina]

This whole situation is so sad.  I feel for the older ones because they know that they are being speculated about and the younger ones who have no idea about what is going on.  Are their children really turning to the teachings and faith of the people, who allowed this to happen, for strength and hope?  Or were all the teachings that they had really for naught because there was no trust in them due to what had happened? Did the lack of trust that parents had in their teachings come about as a result of this crime or was it always there?

I honestly feel torn about I feel about all of this.  Josh was only 14 years old and even when a child know something is wrong they will still do the wrong thing.  I also think that the lack of outside relationships (ie. cousins, school friends, play friends, other adults to look up to,  etc) could have contributed to what he did. The only thing he had to follow was what he saw - that is, how Michelle had to be "available" to her husband.  I think also it seemed to implied constantly  that "girls" were only there for "boys".  Plus his parents were and never had been shy about displaying physical intimacy in front of others (we know what they are).

BUT that it was not an isolated incident but happened multiple times even after the parents seemed to be aware of it - that says something about Josh AND his parents.  Maybe he felt -" well, I got caught and nothing was done. SO..."  I think that at the time he should have been made to face the consequences, this was after all before they became "famous".  

 BUT the parents didn't seem to even take steps to protect their daughters even after they knew what was going on.  (To me this made Michelle's comment in "Digging with the Duggers" about the girl having to take responsibility for a man's (or boy's) actions because she was at fault more heinous).  They didn't even seem to be bothered with the idea that their "precious" blessings would have to see the person, who hurt them, on a daily basis. In hindsight, this makes every comment Josh has made to his sisters even worse.  Especially about "courting"  and  finding a partner.   The lack of any legitimate interventions, support, help for either Josh or his victims is just as troubling. 

Finally, I wonder if any of the girls are aware of what is being said about the whole situation.  If they know how many people are hoping that they are okay and safe.  If this might be the "shove" that the older ones need to step back from their parents and try to forge their own way. If they will say, "We are done.  Give us our money or we will sue."  

[GeeGolly]

I don't believe the situation is so black & white. The parents didn't make the best decisions, but probably the best that they knew. As for a "cover-up", I think those words are too strong; they kept something that is private, private. Josh may be a stupid kid who grew into a self-righteous man, or worse he may be a predator, but we don't know if he is a predator. I hope for all involved that he was a mixed up kid. I wish no ill will for anyone involved and hope that they can turn this into a time of self-reflection and healing.

[Dawn16]

I completely agree that therapy is not the only way to heal and is not always the best way for every person.  I wouldn't want to force victims into therapy.   I do wish that someone told them it was not their fault and that every emotion they have is okay.  They can forgive if that is what they want to do.  They can also forgive and still feel angry or sad, or avoid being around the person who hurt them.  

 

I think that completely suppressing all natural outlets while placing so much focus on sex and basically rubbing it in young people's faces (as we saw Jim Bob do on camera) is a recipe for unhealthy development for anyone; however, the alleged acts in the police report also required a complete lack of concern for the rights and feelings of the victims at an age when most know better.  And the speculated age of the youngest victim is a separate issue that Anna has to consider carefully, no matter how much she loves her husband or believes in standing by him.  In my work, I have seen so many loving mothers who had no idea what was happening in their homes, for years. I certainly pray that everything is okay for her and the M's, but she needs to keep her eyes open.     

 

Edited to add:  I think what's the most upsetting and worrisome is the constant emphasis we have heard from the Duggars over the years on the ways that females defraud males if they do not follow careful rules of dress and behavior.   This does not suggest that they addressed this in a healthy way with their daughters in private.   

Edited May 24, 2015 by Dawn16

[ThinkerBell]

When Remy from Cake Boss was implicated and charged in a molestation case involving a relative TLC simply pulled all episodes featuring him and obscured his face in any episodes where you saw him in the background working. Something similar could be done on 19 Kids and Counting. They simply stop featuring any episodes that revolve around Josh and Anna and either cut out scenes of Josh in other episodes or blur out his face if he ends up in background shots.

I hope someone from TLC has spoken with the older girls (at least the married ones who are out from under Jim Bob's "headship") and offered them their own show apart from the parents. I'd watch Jessa/Ben, Jill/Derrick, & the older girls in a spin-off. I hope that someone at TLC has thought about this and is in contact with the older girls and offering them this.

I hope TLC bows to public pressure and shuts the entire Duggar circus down. I won't hold my breath, however. The network has made a fortune off the Duggars and will likely try to find some 'morally acceptable' way to maintain the show so that the loyal legion of Duggarites can get their regular fix. Josh may not be part of that plan, but I bet Jim Bob and Michelle will insist that they continue to be front and centre in any new version of the show. Knowing what happened under their watch, seeing a smiling Ma and Pa Duggar is just as bad as seeing Josh who we know will still be a central part of the family dynamic, even if he's never seen on the show again.

I still would like to know how much TLC knew, and for how long. The producers, at the every least, had to be aware of the molestation rumours, yet they continued to promote the family as a wholesome beacon of virtue. It was mutually financially advantageous for TLC and the Duggars to maintain a symbiotic relationship and, for that to happen, all involved had to pretend that everything was just fine. I wonder how maintaining that pretense for years for the sake of their family and for TLC affected the Duggar girls. What an emotional burden those poor young souls have had to carry just to perpetuate the Duggar/TLC myth.

It seems to be an acknowledged fact that Oprah's production company found out that there were molestation concerns and dropped the Duggars like a hot potato, and also reported their concerns. For TLC, that should have been a huge Red Flag, but instead the network eagerly latched on to the family and gave them a platform for their distorted life view. Because of their parents, their church, and their obligation to TLC, the girls who were victimised had no choice but to stay silent and smile sweetly for the camera. It's time for these young women to live an authentic life and finally have their privacy. To to do that, they need to cut all ties with TLC. Will that happen? Probably not.

[LilyoftheValley]

I don't believe the situation is so black & white. The parents didn't make the best decisions, but probably the best that they knew. As for a "cover-up", I think those words are too strong; they kept something that is private, private. Josh may be a stupid kid who grew into a self-righteous man, or worse he may be a predator, but we don't know if he is a predator. I hope for all involved that he was a mixed up kid. I wish no ill will for anyone involved and hope that they can turn this into a time of self-reflection and healing.

Criminal acts are not private.  

 

It was this attitude that led to entire generations of sexual abuse victims getting no justice and to even more children getting molested.  Again, sexual abuse against children is not something that should be handled privately by the family; it is very important that these case be criminally prosecuted.  

[bigskygirl]

Reminder...Lets be careful when it comes to the speculation of why Josh molested girls.  Not having a normal childhood, parents flaunting their sex lives in front of him, not having a healthy way to deal with his sexual curiosity, or he was molested himself has not been proven as the reason(s) why he did this. Thank you.

[NextIteration]

Has this been posted? The court order  stating that a minor requested the record be destroyed

http://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Expungement-signed.pdf

 

See again, this is where I'm confused about what triggered which in the timeline of the events this week - if you look at the request, it was as of 5/19, the judge signed off on it on the 21st.  I didn't notice this story until I saw TMZ and Josh's apology and resignation from the FRC, when exactly did InTouch post the police report or when did they file the FOIA?

 

I have so many feelings about this whole thing, starting with none of this surprises me, because as I've watched the Fundamental Christian movement try to turn back the clock on our country, as well as try to turn our government into a theocracy - many of these stories have been the same, over and over again.  The loudest howlers are the biggest "sinners".  Whether they are adulterers, molesters or deeply closeted and on the down low gay folks (and there is no comparison between these things, only the hypocrisy is similar) the whole movement is about taking away the rights of others - women's reproductive rights, gender equality rights, sexual orientation rights.  Always pointing the finger at "loose" women and the LGBTQ community as the problem, when they ignore or hide the problems in their own community.

 

The FRC is responsible for putting on CPAC and this leads to all the way to who gets to run for the White House.  The internecine networks of so-called Christian groups are filled with these creeps and stories pop up all the time about the people involved, but all they have to do is go to Dobson and bend the knee and all is forgiven, Gingrich, McCain, on and on.  This is a powerful network and the Duggars were a part of it.  So this patriarchy thing is what victimized these little innocent girls and continues to victimize them with this horrific Gothard teaching, when is all of America going to wake up and really understand the inter-connectedness of all of this?  They have connections to Hobby Lobby and look, we have a SCOTUS ruling, once again forgetting about the separation of church and state.  I'm rambling...

 

I'll go back to my original assertion, I don't care how connected this family is, but CPS needs to be involved here as there are still minor children in the home, and not only Josh, but Michelle and JimBob victimized these children in the past.  And why the hell didn't Oprah put these people on blast when she had the opportunity?

 

Those poor little girls, the trauma and then ridiculous expectations of forgiveness.. I just can't...

[cmr2014]

I see what you're saying, GEML, and I agree that we don't know the inner workings and private conversations of the Duggar home. Some of the girls could very well have moved on without intervention. I even get that some could have found a way to forgive what happened. The problem is, once again the Duggar children are being treated as a boxed set, and not as individuals. My parents both come from big baby-boom families and they and their siblings are as different as chalk and cheese, yet in the Duggar household the whole family has been able to process and move on in exactly the same way and arrived at the same point of Christian forgiveness. Sorry, I don't buy it. If there was ever a time to look at these precious human beings as individuals with unique needs, not just a number on "how much God loves us" score board, it's now. 

 

I agree with this. This is the problem that I have with statements like "many people grow up in worse conditions, but don't ____"  Everyone is unique and has his or her own strengths and weaknesses. A different person might have been able to manage the stresses in Josh's life, but he couldn't and the results were horrific. Some of the girls might have dealt with the abuse and moved on, while others simply haven't been able to do so.

 

This is a HUGE problem with JB and J'chelle and their "parenting" style. They know nothing about their children. We have seen this time and again where Jxxxx is the "funny one" or Jyyyy is the "organizer." They seem to see their own children in 2-dimensions, and they have no time or interest in learning more about them because the next one is on the way. Maybe because they are such control freaks they assume that there is nothing in their children's heads except what they have put there.

 

In some ways I think that JB and J'chelle are quite bright, but in others -- and ironically that includes child-rearing -- I think that they are pretty dim bulbs.

[Wellfleet]

I know this sounds weird but I'm terrified for the Little Couple. I didn't like the Duggars but I never expected this. I don't really watch the Little Couple often but they seem grounded, happy, employed and just a great little family. But no family yet has survived the TLC nightmare. I would hate to see them come crashing down.

 

I'm hoping Jen's cancer was their nightmare - and they have both certainly paid their dues in many other respects too.

[LilyoftheValley]

Reminder...Lets be careful when it comes to the speculation of why Josh molested girls.  Not having a normal childhood, parents flaunting their sex lives in front of him, or not having a healthy way to deal with his sexual curiosity has not been proven as the reason(s) why he did this. Thank you.

I am not being snarky or sarcastic here but I do not understand why we cannot speculate on this.  It will never be proven one way or another, and we have continuously speculated as to how the Duggar upbringing has produced certain behaviors among the children.  It seems completely reasonable to discuss this here.  Perhaps there is some reason for bannig talk about this I am just not getting.  

[backformore]

You may have a point. I'll be honest, if I were in their shoes, the last thing I would want to do is spend an hour on a weekly basis with a therapist I don't know and re-live the whole experience again, especially if I felt I'd moved on from it. It's possible they have forgiven Josh and worked through the trauma of their molestation. But I firmly believe that each and every one of the girls is brainwashed and drinking the Duggar Kool-Aid and until they have a more autonomous life away from JB & M, I'm not sure they really know if they need to seek counseling to work through their trauma. It's possible they might not recognize it until they start having daughters of their own.

Therapy for someone who has been sexually abused does not HAVE to be about recalling details. Therapy would be about coping with the aftermath - nightmares, anxiety, depression, self-esteem issues. Talking through feelings of anger at the abuser and getting clarity about blame, guilt, forgiveness, trust. It's always more about expressing feelings than it is about re-living details.

With these girls it would also be about reconciling family and religious views on sex and male/female roles, with their experiences.

[BitterApple]

I am not being snarky or sarcastic here but I do not understand why we cannot speculate on this. It will never be proven one way or another, and we have continuously speculated as to how the Duggar upbringing has produced certain behaviors among the children. It seems completely reasonable to discuss this here. Perhaps there is some reason for bannig talk about this I am just not getting.

I'm not a mod but I am a battle scarred 19K&C vet and in my experience these types of discussions usually just devolve into Dead Horse Territory. There's only so much you can speculate before it becomes redundant and people dig in their heels and start to get pissy. I'm sure they didn't mean anything personal;)

Edited May 24, 2015 by BitterApple

[kassygreene]

It's occurred to me that this thing with TLC re-tooling the show to focus on the "cash cows" might be something deliberately leaked by TLC, just to see how the idea is received...  

[CanadianContent]

I am so disgusted, heartbroken, and overwhelmed over the latest news that four girls were molested by their brother Josh.

Whenever a group sets themselves up as being superior to the rest, and excludes themselves from the mainstream, it is a total petri dish/ shite storm for abuse of power.

I've been watching the show for years and really enjoyed their adventures, and the supposed order to care for so many kids, in the totally calm way that the parents modelled.

But certain patterns kept repeating and when I came onto this site, with posters pointing out disturbing elements - the smugness of Josh, Jana's sad smile, Jill's good girl energetic conformity, Jessa's hostile undertone, and Jinger's quiet rebelliousness.

I have experience with teens in group homes who were abused or neglected, and that seemed to be the catalyst for people opening up about their personal experiences to me. I also have a close friend who was abused by her three brothers, and who made it clear that she would never prosecute them because it would expose and destroy her family. Until she told another friend and me, she thought she would take her secret to the grave.

So in hindsight it was the last show that is so disturbing, with Josh teasing and predicting another courtship for Jana or Jinger- which they refused to engage in, then the snarky face of Jessa when Anna was talking about the name for the next baby starting with 'M'. My friend had the same thing happen, with one of her abusing brothers saying at a party, "Why are you so messed up?" I can only imagine the repressed anger.

I can only hope that the truth will set them free, and that the meek will inherit the earth.

 

[alt0233]

As for a "cover-up", I think those words are too strong; they kept something that is private, private.

Nope. If the issue was that they'd helped Josh's girlfriend get an abortion after consentual sex - that's keeping something private private. Touching your sisters while you sleep is a crime, not a private family matter.

[satrunrose]

 

. But what do these people do? They film specials for Discovery/TLC about their family.

This. This has really been bugging me today. I can try to put aside my considerable cynicism/skepticism and, for the sake of argument, accept that Josh's punishment/renovation work/whatever actually worked and he repented and confessed. He might have completely reformed and became a perfectly respectable, upstanding hate-monger (oops, said I wouldn't be cynical, didn't I?). If his parents hadn't sold out to TLC, this story would never have broken and no one would have ever known. How could the Boob and Meechelle have agreed to put their children on tv knowing they had this massive skeleton in their closet that was bound to come out sooner or later and ruin everyones life? They can't have believed it would stay quiet forever. 

[Shibori]

As much as I'm repulsed by Mama June's decisions, she's not wrong on this one. It is a double standard. TLC is all about extremes- Mama June (who was thirteen when she got pregnant with her first child) was famous for being train-wreck trashy, and the Duggars for being train-wreck pious. Should we be surprised that either crashed and burned?

[LilyoftheValley]

This. This has really been bugging me today. I can try to put aside my considerable cynicism/skepticism and, for the sake of argument, accept that Josh's punishment/renovation work/whatever actually worked and he repented and confessed. He might have completely reformed and became a perfectly respectable, upstanding hate-monger (oops, said I wouldn't be cynical, didn't I?). If his parents hadn't sold out to TLC, this story would never have broken and no one would have ever known. How could the Boob and Meechelle have agreed to put their children on tv knowing they had this massive skeleton in their closet that was bound to come out sooner or later and ruin everyones life? They can't have believed it would stay quiet forever. 

Because to them it was all over.  Josh said he was sorry, did his penance, and the girls forgave him.  It was done by that point.  

[BitterApple]

Oddly enough they might have believed it. After all, they've managed to skate on everything else: their connections to Gothard, their affiliations with hate groups, their religious extremism etc. In their minds they're special snowflakes who are above it all. According to their homeschool guide abuse has no real victim, so for them it was just business as usual.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

TLC was fully aware that Oprah sent them all packing from Chicago without appearing on her show, and they know exactly why too. Harpo Productions is a giant with a slew of legal resources that clearly verified the information and deemed it true enough to send the Duggars swiftly back to Arkansas. TLC had a contract with the Duggars and were very much aware of the reasons they were cancelled from the Oprah show.

"Take note, you have sinned against the Lord; and be sure OPRAH will find you out (when you famewhore)."

(just ask James Frey)

Seriously, if you have these kinds of skeletons in your closet, don't go on reality TV or Oprah.

[GeeGolly]

As far as cover up, I was referring to not making this public. I was not referring to not handling the matter.

[Wellfleet]

I hope Jimmy went there, too. Now if the Little Couple has a scandal, I will actually be devastated. That's the only reality couple that i hold any standards or credibility to. They seem like really good people. 

 

I know, right? Whatever happened to that nice Table for 12 family? Bring them back, TLC - if they want to, that is. And pay them big. I loved the parents, the kids were all nice and cute, they seemed very down-to-earth etc. Me-chelle Duggar had all her kids in her house virtually all the time, and with other people taking care of practically all their needs. And didn't have to cope with schools or outside interests. Mrs Table for 12 - what was their name - managed quads or quints or sextuplets, school schedules for 12 kids, dance classes, sports practices, Scouting, church, her household, a little girl with CP, her marriage etc with no staff, no millions and no love offerings. She beats Me-chelle by a mile in my book! 

Edited May 24, 2015 by Wellfleet

[LilyoftheValley]

Yeah I suppose if you sincerely think the way they do, then how they handled all this was fine.  You just have to seek forgiveness and get it and then everything is good again.  

[neural-plasticity]

I'm sad to see the Seewald's support of Huckabee. Honestly, after seeing that, any hope of thinking the girls would leave is gone. They've drank the kool-aid and been brain washed for so long they have no idea how else to live. I'm really sad for them.

That picture of the children around the same time this all happened was sad too. It was especially sad to see how JB and Michelle already weren't interested in their other kids, besides the younger ones, in that picture.

[irisheyes]

Yeah I get it.  I am pointing out that the "emporer has no clothes" in that statement so to speak.  I really must question how religious the Duggars truly are.  I guess they are in a way, but they have this incredibly immature and childish view of Christianity.  Like, I do not think that the concept of forgiveness is really about just pushing a problem into the darkness and never dealing with it.  And I also do not think that issuing a deceptive statement conforms with the ten commandments.  And I sure as shit am confused as to how having a television show all about yourself is in any way modest.  The Bates family seems just a bit more sincere and deep about their religion, for example.  Anyway, this event really drove it home to me much more than ever.  The Duggars are not actual Christians.  They like the superficial stuff like holding memorials for a stillborn, and wearing long skirts to look pious.  But when they use their religion in the context of something like child molestation, you can see quite clearly that they do not understand one of the key tenets of Christianity, namely contrition and forgiveness.  I really don't thing that a single person in that family has really ever sat down with the Bible and truly thought deeply about what is in there.  It is why they are so loud about the things that are on their level of comprehension, like long hair and women doing the laundry.  Things like pride, modesty, repentence, and forgiveness are simply too complicated for them.

I want to marry this post. So, so true. I live in redder than red Georgia, and this is what I see so many times. It's all about looking good, but when real live children are suffering, then we all avert our eyes.

[mynextmistake]

Regarding Jim Bob and sex, I'm not sure I've ever observed a man his age who is so obsessed with sex. (Consensual, respectful) sex can be fun! A lot of people like it. But he's 50 years old and has been married for what, 30 years? Why is it still the only thing he talks about? We get it, Jim Bob. Someone liked you enough to marry you and have sex with you. Congratulations? What are you still trying to prove?

Regardless of the causes of Josh's behavior, which I won't speculate on, I find Jim Bob's lack of boundaries extremely disturbing.

[CatS]

Dollars to doughnuts, when the gravy train dries up and Jim Bob says, sorry Joshie Boy, got hairspray to buy over here, you're on your own, Josh will be the one to sell out the family with the tell all book/special. Next year or five years from now, he'll be the one weak and greedy enough to do it.

Though I sincerely hope it's one of the girls and she roasts his balls and her parents over the coals, I don't see it. Unless it's all the girls together, they'd be worried about the fallout for the others.

[Happyfatchick]

Welcome. You can go to the Small Talk thread.

The Prayer Closet is our small talk thread. (Sorry, Fuzz - that confused me when I first started here).

And SHOOT! I wasn't trying to tell YOU that, Fuzzysox, I was trying to say it to the person YOU answered. I'm leaving the post though, since there are so many new posters. It may point someone else in the right direction. Maybe the original person will even see it eventually.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[nodorothyparker]

I don't think the political establishment knew it at that time, but something made Jim Bob very unappealing to the party.  He just didn't get support.  It makes me wonder what it was that made him so unappealing at that time.

 

I was in Little Rock media at the time of the Senate run and the now famous pic of them all dressed as extras from The Handmaid's Tale.  At the time the conventional wisdom about him was that he wasn't particularly smart or savvy and was a total one-issue candidate.  While he certainly babbled a fair bit about "faith and family," everything else out of his mouth was abortion, abortion, abortion.  He was also regarded as something of an oddity in political circles because he was already even then trying to make his claim to fame on having more kids than everyone else and was always dragging Josh all around the Statehouse where kids really didn't belong.  

 

Religion will get you a long way in Arkansas but this was before the rise of the Tea Party and all the full-bore pandering to the far-right Mike Huckabee element.  Jim Bob was simply too out there for most Arkansans.

Edited May 24, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Quilt Fairy]

Another great blog post by Libby Anne of Love, Joy, Feminism:

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/anna-duggar-and-the-silencing-power-of-forgiveness.html

[LilyoftheValley]

Dollars to doughnuts, when the gravy train dries up and Jim Bob says, sorry Joshie Boy, got hairspray to buy over here, you're on your own, Josh will be the one to sell out the family with the tell all book/special. Next year or five years from now, he'll be the one weak and greedy enough to do it.

Though I sincerely hope it's one of the girls and she roasts his balls and her parents over the coals, I don't see it. Unless it's all the girls together, they'd be worried about the fallout for the others.

Though I can get complely behind the sentiment, I truly hope that this family can work out their issues before anyone "escapes" and the consequence of that is that they are estranged from the famiy.  When all is said and down, at the very least the siblings appear to love and care about each other.  I do not think that the Duggars even come close to appreciating the amount off work it takes to ensure that a group that size has healthy relationships with each other.

[mynextmistake]

Because to them it was all over.  Josh said he was sorry, did his penance, and the girls forgave him.  It was done by that point.

Yeah, I think this is key. I think they are probably honestly surprised by all of this. I think they probably honestly believe that this was done and dusted and never to be spoken of again. Their attitude about this really seems to be no different than it would have been if Josh had been caught joyriding in the neighbor's pickup.

[3 is enough]

 

Dollars to doughnuts, when the gravy train dries up and Jim Bob says, sorry Joshie Boy, got hairspray to buy over here, you're on your own, Josh will be the one to sell out the family with the tell all book/special. Next year or five years from now, he'll be the one weak and greedy enough to do it.

Oh yes.  Absolutely.

 

How ironic that he finally is front page news- just not the way he thought he would be.

Edited May 24, 2015 by 3 is enough

[NikSac]

I am a lawyer.  Once you take on a client, even just for a short period of time, you develop an attorney-client relationship and a lot comes along with that.  It is very hard to "fire" a client.  I most certainly would not have taken this on under the circumstances.  This would have been a highly sensitive case which involved several minor children and two adults who are quite weird.  The smartest thing a lawyer can do is just to refuse outright.  You could meet with them briefly just to discuss some preliminary matters and now under the law you are their lawyer.  It's not worth it.  

 

Thank you for the insight. That explains the wording in the police report then. The original attorney seemed so adamant about having it stated that he was 'not the attorney of record."  I looked them both up online and the first one specializes in criminal defense law (not sure if he has a particular specialty within that) and DUI/DWI.  I couldn't find much more on him. The second one (from his website) "...handles criminal cases including all felony, misdemeanor and juvenile delinquency matters. Kent also covers criminal appeals and administrative hearings relating to child maltreatment investigations and sex offender registration issues." I'm going with neither of them wanted to be tied to this case, as you said maybe due to the sensitive nature of it, maybe weirdness of the parents, or maybe they were already aware it was going to be tough with the statute of limitations thing.

[Hpmec]

Angeltoes, you beat me to it. Cathy's husband, even though we've only seen him briefly a couple of times, doesn't hide his disdain for the Duggars. He's the most genuine person on this trainwreck of a show - a world weary type with no tolerance for b.s. How I'd love to have been a fly on the wall the past couple of days to hear his opinion of this whole unfortunate mess. You just know he's in full on "I told you so" mode. I'm pretty sure that after this, he'll avoid the Duggars like the plague.

I'm wondering when and how Josh will resurface. I can see him putting in appearances at fundie churches giving testimony, begging forgiveness, and passing the plate -especially passing the plate. His political career is over before it started, and as a well known child molester, he can pretty much forget doing anything that would put him into contact with the general public. Making tearful appearances before the fundie faithful seems to be his best bet for now unless Huckabee finds something for him to do and keeps it quiet. But, I wouldn't put it past him to eventually do a tell all interview for big bucks in order to stay afloat.He's only in his mid 20s with a wife and (soon) 4 children, back taxes due, and limited options.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Hpmec

[cooksdelight]

I am not being snarky or sarcastic here but I do not understand why we cannot speculate on this.  It will never be proven one way or another, and we have continuously speculated as to how the Duggar upbringing has produced certain behaviors among the children.  It seems completely reasonable to discuss this here.  Perhaps there is some reason for bannig talk about this I am just not getting.

Speculating on certain behaviors among the children based on their upbringing is vastly different from speculating as to why someone molests children.

And.... because we said so. :)

Seriously, you cross a thin line when you start speculating the reasons behind why a person would molest their siblings. We don't know, and frankly I don't think most people really want to know. The less speculation overall -- as has been mentioned in mod notes before -- the better.

[BitterApple]

I'm sad to see the Seewald's support of Huckabee. Honestly, after seeing that, any hope of thinking the girls would leave is gone. They've drank the kool-aid and been brain washed for so long they have no idea how else to live. I'm really sad for them.

That was unfortunate. They would've been better off keeping quiet rather than supporting a narrative that excuses the actions of an abuser. Every time we think a set of in-laws is going to be the voice of reason, we're always disappointed. I don't know why we keep torturing ourselves, lol.

[autumnh]

To be a fly on the wall at the Duggar household....I cannot EVEN the mess that is going on there right now.

[Lillybee]

I really feel sorry for those girls not only were they molested but I believe that they were forced to apologize to Josh for defrauding him and then forgive him. They still had to live with their molester, cook is food, wash his clothes including his tidy whities and scrub his pee when they cleaned the bathrooms.

[LilyoftheValley]

To be a fly on the wall at the Duggar household....I cannot EVEN the mess that is going on there right now.

No one is talking about it openly.  Maybe the girls are texting each other.  

I really feel sorry for those girls not only were they molested but I believe that they were forced to apologize to Josh for defrauding him and then forgive him. They still had to live with their molester, cook is food, wash his clothes including his tidy whities and scrub his pee when they cleaned the bathrooms.

And he was smirking at them the entire time....

[LilyoftheValley]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/anna-duggar-and-the-silencing-power-of-forgiveness.html

 

As I became a teenage young man I was constantly tempted to have lots of wrong thoughts, and often battled to keep my heart right. One of the greatest things that helped me in my struggles was my parent’s commitment to accountability. They were faithful to talk with each one of their children – if we were willing to share honestly & openly with them – to maintain a clear conscience. I learned quickly that great freedom can be achieved by accountability, and great accountability requires humility & openness. I often had failures in my early teenage years, but found I had a clear conscience only when I was willing to confess my thoughts and temptations quickly to God & my parents. (1 John 1:9) 

 

Here is something Josh said when he was courting Anna. Okay so if I had read this at the time, I would have just assumed that he felt some girls up from his church group, as that is certainly how it sounds.  This is what is so sick about the Duggar's beliefs.  It seems quite clear from this statement that Josh considers molesting his sister as she sleeps as the same level of wicked as having a consensual make out session with someone you're own age.  Both are just "temptations".  The male is tempted and the female is the one doing the tempting.  One of Josh's sisters was a bad girl who tempted him while she was sleeping.  

 

I dunno, that is the idea I am getting from what he said there.  Somewhere in that whole thing is the implication of an evil temptress.  If he said that publicly just a couple of years after the ordeal, then I cannot imagine how horrible his victims must have felt at that moment.   

[sadiegirl1999]

skippy, on 23 May 2015 - 4:13 PM, said:

    Can anyone tell me why my posts keep disappearing?

That happened to me yesterday. I think there is a glitch on the boards due to all the traffic.

 

 

I have a post that people have quoted, apparently, but when I click on the notification, it takes me back to page 1.

[hathorlive]

There's some interesting things being posted in the Guinn post about Huckabee.  She's got someone posting some pretty stinging comments about the confession Josh made in Church.  And the poster is calling Guinn out for not supporting the true victims.  Is it against the rules to post facebook captures? 

 

This is such a sad situation.  I have a masters in counseling but do not practice.  I have two close friends who are survivors and they've both had nightmares the past few nights.  I can only hope those girls get help some day.  I have no words for Josh.  He deserves the misery he's forced on others for his actions.  I don't have much sympathy for Anna.  She was probably never told the "truth" (if the Duggars even know what the word means) and she probably wrote that press statement with a crisis PR person beside her. I agree that she's trapped and has few options.  But again, this is what they've created. You have no education and a small army of kids.  She might want to consider if now is the time to stop breeding with this man, though she'll probably double down and be pregnant again by New years.