Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Kiss my mutt]

51 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I highly doubt it.  Anna isn't going to give up following Gothard's rules which stipulate waiting 80 days after the birth of a daughter.  Josh was remanded into custody after less than 60 days from the birth of Madyson.  As far as I can tell, that rule supersedes being "joyfully available" at the drop of a hat.

Josh obviously feels he’s above scriptural law, so it actually wouldn’t surprise me if he’s pounced on Anna already. He’s a disgusting human being. 

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Josh obviously feels he’s above scriptural law, so it actually wouldn’t surprise me if he’s pounced on Anna already. He’s a disgusting human being. 

For all of the disgusting things Josh has done, I just do not see him flouting this particular rule.  I have no real desire to look it up, but it feels like Josh strays when Anna cannot be "joyfully available."  If Josh was disregarding Gothard's rules and pouncing on Anna whenever he felt like it, then he and Anna would have more than 7 kids instead of popping out one every 2 years.  

Also, Anna believes(d) Josh is innocent, so of course he was going to be at home with her whenever day 80 arrived.  

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

My worry about her emotional state is that I'm pretty sure she physically punishes her children. That and strong unexpressed emotions can lead to excessive punishment.

I hope not.  But her children are the biggest reason I hope she's got good outlets for her emotions and truly supportive and helpful sounding boards available.   Her parents stacked the deck against her and led her into disaster that she hasn't been able to extricate herself from yet.   Her children deserve better.

[Minivanessa]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree. Josh will not be happy in prison. Under JB's thumb he may have hated his life, but he had hot food, hot water for showers, tech toys, internet, status as "the golden child". Jesus Jail in 2015/16 was no picnic but actual federal prison is going to be much more unpleasant for him.

I agree. I think Josh got away with a LOT of self-indulgent behavior over the years, before and after  his stint in Jesus Jail, more than we will ever know about. He's no longer living with his naive compliant wife. The federal prison isn't run by Josh's indulgent parents. Life for Josh will be much different from what he's known before. 

[Gemma Violet]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Josh did not gain weight eating well prepared highly delicious meals (there are a lot of ways to end up in a calorie surplus). 

I have a feeling Josh lived on a lot of fast food.  He'll now have to get used to the fact that it's going to be many years before he again gets any Chick-Fil-A, Big Macs, meat-lovers pizzas, and of course Starbucks.  

[JustRosie]

Josh will be such a changed person after spending multiple years in prison. Anna will not have changed much in that time. They could be in for a rough road after he is released. 

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Josh will be such a changed person after spending multiple years in prison. Anna will not have changed much in that time. They could be in for a rough road after he is released. 

Anna is going to be spending the next  8-10 years raising 7 kids as a single mom.  She is not going to be the same woman when Josh gets out.  How much Anna changes is yet to be determined.  I highly doubt she will do a 180 and divorce Josh and hightail it somewhere away from her inlaws, but she will change.  

[Gemma Violet]

WOACB says on her FB that according to the jail log she has obtained, Anna has made 19 visits with Josh (via computer) on 9 separate days.  She says Anna was the only visitor.

[ginger90]

24 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB says on her FB that according to the jail log she has obtained, Anna has made 19 visits with Josh (via computer) on 9 separate days.  She says Anna was the only visitor.

If that’s true, (I am not a Crystal Ball fan)  he’s been strip searched 38 times for those calls.

Good.

She’s a fool. I thought those visits were to be done during a pretty short time frame per day. 19 in 9 days? 🤦‍♀️

I wonder if she went to the jail (free) or if she did the calls from elsewhere (for a fee).

Edited December 28, 2021 by ginger90

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB says on her FB that according to the jail log she has obtained, Anna has made 19 visits with Josh (via computer) on 9 separate days.  She says Anna was the only visitor.

I find it hard to believe that Josh is allowed a video visit every morning and afternoon every day.  It's a limited resource, and he's not the only prisoner they have.   Unless, of course, someone is paying off the jail guards. 

[BigBingerBro]

It makes me wonder if Anna visiting umpteen times (if true) is some sort of wishfull thinking desperate attempt to get the sentencing judge to be much more lenient.  Like "my family needs daddy sooo much, you can't send him away!"  Not that it will work...

[zenme]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’ve actually heard the opposite. That the food quality in the prison SUCKS and commissary is so expensive, it’s not enough calories to keep weight on an adult. Also there’s nothing else to do but work out. 
 

I could see Josh losing weight because he won’t have access to the type of food he wants. And I do see Michelle putting something on his commissary so he can purchase snacks and toiletries- it’s not going to be an excessive amount. 

I’d imagine prison food to be just the type of palate an individual growing up in TTH would have. 

[spacefly]

I do wonder how Josh will deal for the long haul. I was listening to a podcast the other day and the gentleman being interviewed seemed to know Jeffrey Epstein well enough to comment on his death and how he handled the discomforts of prison. He thoroughly believes that JE caused his own death because JE could not deal with life in prison. He mentioned that JE needed air temperature, food, bedding, towels etc. to be very specific and he would flip if they weren't up to his expectations. As he put it JE "was soft". This man also mentioned that GM will be fine as she is a lot harder/tougher. I do wonder which side Josh will fall on and how he will handle it.

[Future Cat Lady]

How can it be possible for Crystal ball lady to obtain the jail log?

[JustRosie]

14 minutes ago, spacefly said:

I do wonder how Josh will deal for the long haul. I was listening to a podcast the other day and the gentleman being interviewed seemed to know Jeffrey Epstein well enough to comment on his death and how he handled the discomforts of prison. He thoroughly believes that JE caused his own death because JE could not deal with life in prison. He mentioned that JE needed air temperature, food, bedding, towels etc. to be very specific and he would flip if they weren't up to his expectations. As he put it JE "was soft". This man also mentioned that GM will be fine as she is a lot harder/tougher. I do wonder which side Josh will fall on and how he will handle it.

Good point. Josh seems soft and lacking any street smarts. I think he will struggle in prison. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, Namaste said:

Good point. Josh seems soft and lacking any street smarts. I think he will struggle in prison. 

Agreed. He's as soft as they come. Living as the undeserved, pampered Golden Boy, he never knew hardships. I think he even got a pass at Jesus Jail. He never sat with his fellow addicts during the Friday night pep rallies. 

[SusanM]

9 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

How can it be possible for Crystal ball lady to obtain the jail log?

I was wondering this as well.  I can understand that prisoners have little privacy within the confines of the jail/prison but this kind of information being publicly available seems like a real invasion of privacy to me for some reason.

Edited December 29, 2021 by SusannahM

[Chicklet]

I don't think I'll be unhappy if Josh struggles with prison conditions. 

He deserves all the bad food prison kitchens can muster, all the scratchy sheets, lumpy pillows, cold showers, and bad video on visitations. He also deserves to have Anna leave him but that sure won't happen.

[Absolom]

22 hours ago, Zella said:

I've actually read weight gain is more common in prison/jail than weight loss. They feed you a lot of calories for the sedentary lifestyle, and I don't see Josh being the type of person who works out in prison. 

They can obtain a lot of empty calories from the commissary if family is willing to contribute to the account.  

[Gemma Violet]

50 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

How can it be possible for Crystal ball lady to obtain the jail log?

If it's considered "public information," the jail has no choice but to provide a copy of it.  I used to work for county government and the law was that, when a member of the public made the request in writing for any material considered public information, we had to provide the information within three days.  So, if prison/jail visitor logs are considered "public information," the jail has no choice but to provide copies of them to whoever asks.  Usually, the recipient has to pay for the copying costs (so much per page).

ETA:  We sometimes had requests for things like copies of all emails between Employee #1 and Employee #2 over the past five years, or copies of all emails between the Administrator and the Public Works Department regarding 112th Street for the past ten years, or a list of the salaries of each position in the Executive Department, etc.  Some of these things were due to possible upcoming lawsuits, but not always.  We used to pull our hair when we'd get requests like that because it took so much time away from our regular work.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Gemma Violet

[Absolom]

12 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Does anyone know what kind of gifts inmates are allowed to have in their cells? I'm guessing at least books and pictures.

The jail where Josh is now doesn't accept packages for inmates.  They can send him books at least when he gets to Federal prison and I'm guessing he'll be allowed x number of photos there, too.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

The jail where Josh is now doesn't accept packages for inmates.  They can send him books at least when he gets to Federal prison and I'm guessing he'll be allowed x number of photos there, too.

Since none of these people strike me as pleasure readers, I am not even sure they'd be able to think of many books between all of them to send Josh. Unless he just wants to get a Bible for every shipment. 

[GeeGolly]

I'm guessing Josh is still in some kind of state of shock. There's reasons why its recommended not to make any major life changes after a traumatic event. It takes a lot of time to process and recalibrate your brain. You think you're functioning on all cylinders, but you're really not.

And no sooner will Josh get this jail figured out, he'll be off to prison. I'd bet he's functioning on a false belief of getting out, before he even 'gets in'.

Eventually though Josh will adapt - because he has to.

 

[YupItsMe]

I’m not surprised Anna has been visiting, I want to know who else has.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'd bet he's functioning on a false belief of getting out, before he even 'gets in'.

Yeah my guess is he has transferred his delusions about being found not guilty to the judge somehow having mercy on him during sentencing, and that is keeping him from completely unraveling. I do think it shocked him to be found guilty and taken directly to jail from the courtroom, but I don't know that it has entirely sunk in yet. 

[jcbrown]

10 hours ago, DXD526 said:

But damn, I can't imagine the adjustments he's been having to make since being convicted. For someone who's used to being treated special, it's got to be quite a shock. 

I completely agree. I was thinking also about how difficult it must be for him to adjust to solitary, after being raised in a herd and spawning his own herd. None of the Duggars have any experience with solitude and it seems like whenever the convict got a chance at it, he used it for "evil" (porn, hookers, Ashley Madison, CSAM).

2 hours ago, zenme said:

I’d imagine prison food to be just the type of palate an individual growing up in TTH would have. 

Excellent point. Wonder if they'll serve anything like Anna's famous "chicken-etti"?

Edited December 29, 2021 by jcbrown

[emmawoodhouse]

14 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

I’m not surprised Anna has been visiting, I want to know who else has.

According to the records KJ accessed, only Anna. 

[JustRosie]

Legal question…supposing Josh told his lawyers yep, I did it but I want to plead not guilty and try my luck in court. Knowing this, can the lawyers still go to court and try to defend him?

[Rootbeer]

7 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Legal question…supposing Josh told his lawyers yep, I did it but I want to plead not guilty and try my luck in court. Knowing this, can the lawyers still go to court and try to defend him?

There is attorney-client privilege, so his lawyers couldn't turn around and turn him in.  And, yes, lawyers do defend clients who they know to be guilty.  At this point, Josh' best chance to get out is on appeal and most appeals are based on procedural issues, not guilt or innocence.  His lawyers can argue that there were issues with the jury selection or improper allowance of evidence or questioning of a witness without ever having to address his guilt or innocence.

Most criminal defense lawyers don't ask their clients if they're guilty or innocent; they defend all comers.  Even if the defendant is guilty of the crime, he/she is entitled to legal counsel.  And, there are ways to give a jury reasonable doubt without ever delving into whether the defendant committed the crime.  If you followed Josh' trial, his attorneys didn't try to contend that Josh wasn't present when the CSA was downloaded; they just tried to claim that there were others who potentially could've accessed the computer at that moment which was enough to show reasonable doubt.  The jury didn't buy it, but their defense was about creating doubt.  Generally, it is only on TV where the defense lawyers come out and prove who really did the crime.  In real life, they try to sow doubt even if there is strong evidence tat their client is guilty.

[JustRosie]

9 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

There is attorney-client privilege, so his lawyers couldn't turn around and turn him in.  And, yes, lawyers do defend clients who they know to be guilty.  At this point, Josh' best chance to get out is on appeal and most appeals are based on procedural issues, not guilt or innocence.  His lawyers can argue that there were issues with the jury selection or improper allowance of evidence or questioning of a witness without ever having to address his guilt or innocence.

Most criminal defense lawyers don't ask their clients if they're guilty or innocent; they defend all comers.  Even if the defendant is guilty of the crime, he/she is entitled to legal counsel.  And, there are ways to give a jury reasonable doubt without ever delving into whether the defendant committed the crime.  If you followed Josh' trial, his attorneys didn't try to contend that Josh wasn't present when the CSA was downloaded; they just tried to claim that there were others who potentially could've accessed the computer at that moment which was enough to show reasonable doubt.  The jury didn't buy it, but their defense was about creating doubt.  Generally, it is only on TV where the defense lawyers come out and prove who really did the crime.  In real life, they try to sow doubt even if there is strong evidence tat their client is guilty.

Thank you.  

[CalicoKitty]

1 hour ago, jcbrown said:

I completely agree. I was thinking also about how difficult it must be for him to adjust to solitary, after being raised in a herd and spawning his own herd. None of the Duggars have  any experience with solitude and it seems like whenever the convict got a chance at it, he used it for "evil" (porn, hookers, Ashley Madison, CSAM).

Excellent point. Wonder if they'll serve anything like Anna's famous "chicken-etti"?

Or tuna with bbq sauce.

[farmgal4]

8 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

I have a feeling Josh lived on a lot of fast food.  He'll now have to get used to the fact that it's going to be many years before he again gets any Chick-Fil-A, Big Macs, meat-lovers pizzas, and of course Starbucks.  

That thrills me to death.  I hope he goes to bed hungry every night.

[irisheyes]

I don’t know if jail is going to be that hard for Josh. He’s probably heading off to medium security, so he won’t be around any real violent offenders. He will get three meals a day, and some mundane job where he doesn’t really have to think. He won’t have to pretend that he likes his kids (or the rest of his family).  I think once he settles into a routine, he won’t find prison too terrible. I think he was completely miserable the last few years, so he’s probably thinking prison can’t be any worse. At least he doesn’t have to act like a wonderful, god-fearing Christian husband and father anymore. 

[Zella]

I personally doubt Josh misses his family in jail, and I've long thought he wasn't happy with his life. On that point, I'm sure jail doesn't work on him like a normal person. But I don't think he likes not having control over his life, and I think a lifetime of being treated like the family's golden boy (by a family who was very proud of its holier than thou reputation) has given him an exalted opinion of himself that does not like being treated like scum of the earth.

It's one thing for your dad to put you up in some half-ass used car business where you can pretend to work while you hide from your family and spend your days watching porn and stuffing your face with fast food. It's quite another to spend years hanging out in a cell, having your days monitored by people who think you're a heinous piece of shit and having minimal say about even basic tasks. 

[Showthyme]

Bernard Madoff said that jail was easier too because he wasn’t having to live the lie. Josh Duggar is the same.

Anna Duggar is still partaking in the Koolaid. She most likely believes Josh will get off on an appeal or will only get a minimum sentence. Bless her home schooled heart.

[MsJamieDornan]

9 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB says on her FB that according to the jail log she has obtained, Anna has made 19 visits with Josh (via computer) on 9 separate days.  She says Anna was the only visitor.

This is interesting since there are strict visiting hours and even if the visits are via computer, there is no way she made 19 visits and they allowed it.

[lilwhitelion]

KJ has the visitation history.  Anna video visited multiple times on some days.  For instance, they visited five times on Christmas Eve, first call starting at 3:39 pm.  Sometimes the call was ended because of low funds.  So she had to pay more to be able to call again.  

I wonder if the maximum visiting time per day is 60 minutes because the last visits were on 12/27.  Three calls in succession, totaling 58:37.  The reason given for the last hangup was Max Length Reached (after a 30:00 minute call).  That is the only hang up with that reason.

Weirdest thing was someone called John Pakula visited Joshua on Christmas morning.  The call lasted 57 seconds and Josh ended it.

Anna visited with him on Christmas for 26:42, starting at 10:28 am.  Was that when Jana did her filming at TTH?

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

KJ has the visitation history.  Anna video visited multiple times on some days.  For instance, they visited five times on Christmas Eve, first call starting at 3:39 pm.  Sometimes the call was ended because of low funds.  So she had to pay more to be able to call again.  

I wonder if the maximum visiting time per day is 60 minutes because the last visits were on 12/27.  Three calls in succession, totaling 58:37.  The reason given for the last hangup was Max Length Reached (after a 30:00 minute call).  That is the only hang up with that reason.

Weirdest thing was someone called John Pakula visited Joshua on Christmas morning.  The call lasted 57 seconds and Josh ended it.

Anna visited with him on Christmas for 26:42, starting at 10:28 am.  Was that when Jana did her filming at TTH?

So is each call being counted as a visit? Like, 3 calls in quick succession in one day = 3 visits or 3 calls in quick succession in one day = 1 visit? 

[GeeGolly]

11 minutes ago, Zella said:

So is each call being counted as a visit? Like, 3 calls in quick succession in one day = 3 visits or 3 calls in quick succession in one day = 1 visit? 

And are these phone calls, or video chats?

[lilwhitelion]

Each call is counted as a visit.  So, 19 calls by Anna, one by John Pakula.  They are video chats, from home (?) since she has to pay.  If she went to the jail, it would be free, I think.  

Dates are 12/12, one for 6:13 min; 12/13, one for 16:00 min; 12/19, one for 12:12 min; 12/21, 3 different calls for 42:34 min total; 12/22, two calls for 28:23 min total; 12/23, two calls for 48:48 min total; 12/24, 5 different calls for 47:31 min total; 12/25, one call for 26:42 min; 12/27, 3 calls for 58:37 min total.

[BetyBee]

Maybe John Pakula called Josh about his extended car warranty? 😉

[Quilt Fairy]

What I wonder about is the apparent disconnect in Josh's behavior that was observed.  From what was reported, when he was in court he was smiling and joking around during breaks, hardly giving his case the seriousness it deserved.  Was this all a facade (something I'm sure he's quite good at) or did he actually think he was getting off, regardless of whatever truths his lawyers may have laid on him?  And which of these personas is going to prepare him better for prison life?  I have read that when in prison you must always have your "game face" on.  Perhaps he will be able to do that better than most.  Who knows? 

[Quilt Fairy]

If you go to the Washington County Jail website (be sure you specify Arkansas) and click on "How do I visit a detainee?"  it will take you to a screen where you list the person's name and it will give you the available visiting times.  I got as far as verifying that Josh is an inmate, but to go any further you must create an account and/or give them your email, at which point I bailed.  Perhaps someone braver than me will go farther and get more details. 

[Minivanessa]

About visiting detainees at the Washington County (Arkansas) jail, the Sheriff's department website says: 

Quote

The Washington County Detention Center provides two methods for detainee visitation. The first method is free and is from a visitation kiosk in the lobby of the detention center. The second is a remote visitation that can be done from any computer with a camera, microphone, and internet connection (fees will apply). To make a reservation for either method go to [deleted].

I usually add links to my posts but I figure if anybody wants badly to know more, Google is their friend. The link goes to a third-party commercial site where you have to register to find out more, and I didn't want to. I assume there are limits on the times for the onsite kiosk and also for the remote video visits. (KJ wouldn't have gotten her visitation info from that site, it would have been from an open records request to the Sheriff's office.)

I doubt that Anna hauled herself down to the detention center lobby to chat with the family felon via that kiosk, so she would have been paying for remote video chats with him. 

[louannems]

9 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

About visiting detainees at the Washington County (Arkansas) jail, the Sheriff's department website says: 

I usually add links to my posts but I figure if anybody wants badly to know more, Google is their friend. The link goes to a third-party commercial site where you have to register to find out more, and I didn't want to. I assume there are limits on the times for the onsite kiosk and also for the remote video visits. (KJ wouldn't have gotten her visitation info from that site, it would have been from an open records request to the Sheriff's office.)

I doubt that Anna hauled herself down to the detention center lobby to chat with the family felon via that kiosk, so she would have been paying for remote video chats with him. 

Now I want to know how much money Anna wasted visiting the detainee.

[merylinkid]

6 minutes ago, louannems said:

Now I want to know how much money Anna wasted visiting the detainee.

A LOT.   Third party communication with jails is BIG BUSINESS.   You think data overage fees are high on your cellphone?   Nothing compared to what the prisons are.   According to this website, a 15 minute phone call costs $4.80.   

https://www.prisonphonejustice.org/

And that's the phone call.   I am sure video is more expensive.

The latest prison moneymaking scheme is that prisoners are not allowed actual books.   They can have Kindles and get ebooks.   With a HUGE markup on using the Kindle, of course.   Like per minute fees.   Because a physical book can only be charged to a prisoner once.   The prisoner can reread it multiple times for free.   A Kindle, they can be charged constantly.

Edited December 29, 2021 by merylinkid

[Minivanessa]

12 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

 Third party communication with jails is BIG BUSINESS.   

I believe it. The website link that I left out of my post above, is to a third party site of a company called "Jail ATM." I'm sure that company makes nice money off of its contracts for handling inmate/detainee accounts, calls, etc. 

[Westiepeach]

35 minutes ago, louannems said:

Now I want to know how much money Anna JimBoob wasted visiting the detainee.

FIFY.

[merylinkid]

Googling around I found this.   It's Lancaster PA but I doubt it is radically different for Arkansas:

https://co.lancaster.pa.us/DocumentCenter/View/11341/Fee-Structure

$35 processing fee just to SET UP the account for an inmate.   There is a processing fee on EACH transaction.   

I am all for Head Idiot wasting money on his Pyrite Child.   BUT, what about the prisoners whose families cannot afford this extortion?     

 

[SusanM]

8 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I am all for Head Idiot wasting money on his Pyrite Child.   BUT, what about the prisoners whose families cannot afford this extortion?     

I had this thought with regard to the above post about lack of actual books so they can make people pay to read on a kindle.  That's just wrong IMO.  I am not saying prisoners should be living the Life of Riley but honestly not even being able to access books without having to pay a fee every time they want to read something seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.