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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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absnow54

absnow54

5 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

I can see them moving Anna and the kids back into the big house with them. They all lived there when Josh was sent away after everything came out a couple of years ago, and I think they'll do so again. On a purely practical note, they can make sure Anna stays in the fold if she's in the same house.

She's definitely moving into the TTH with the kids. I don't think a woman is allowed to live alone. 

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

8 minutes ago, mom2two said:

Did Anna really have a choice with the number of kids she had. Remember that she had to be joyfully available for a Sex deviant.   I think secretly she is relieved that she never has to have sex with him for a very very long time.    Remember that other than completely leaving, which she should have done when the Ashley Madison stuff came out, she is trapped and has to play by the rules.  She knows nothing different.

You're nicer than I am. I think it's not at all impossible that Anna loves Josh and enjoys having sex with him. Yes she was a sheltered fundie growing up, but for all we know she and Josh are on the same wavelength as far as sex goes. TBH I really hate to think about their sex lives (yecch!). But I think we have no more reason to assume she just endures her marital sex than we do to think that she enjoys it. Just saying.

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3girlsforus

3girlsforus

32 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

It would be the first time I've ever seen enhancers enforced.  But again, this judge seems to be over Joshie.  

Is there any chance that if he enforces enhancers it would be grounds for an appeal - malicious sentencing or whatever? I would assume this isn't the first case you've seen where enhancers could be justified. So if they don't typically enforce them would there be a problem down the road where he's let out earlier? 

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realityfan26

realityfan26

11 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

You're right, I did see that.  It just doesn't sit right with me that she's all "praise God for justice" and "what's done in the dark shall come to light" or whatever, when she is one of the adults who knew what was happening and didn't do all she could to protect the world from a predator.  If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I don't believe the Holts (and probably dozens of others like them, if not more) did all that they could in the Josh situation.

All she would’ve had to do was go before the media & keep it in the news. She probably thinks going to the authorities was enough. With JB, we know you have to sink lower. 

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Readalot

Readalot

On 12/9/2019 at 12:45 PM, Readalot said:

A local teacher here is accused of molesting a few girls. Dept of Homeland Security is asking the public for any details or info on other victims. - So lets hope this Is not it. 

Crazy we’ve been speculating about the DHS Warrant, arrest, and trial for so long and we finally got THE TRUTH!  I am sure this is bittersweet for Jill and Joy and all of his victims. I feel for them and that convicted evil person’s children. Anna, Him Bob and Michelle can go to Hell along with Josh. I woke up at 4 am and though they HAVE TO FIND HIM GUILTY. I haven’t slept since. I am going to sleep well knowing justice will be served for his victims. 

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Tikichick

Tikichick

9 minutes ago, louannems said:

Do defendants with a public attorney also have access to appeals?  Or just private paying?

Absolutely.

Even defendants with retained counsel who are convicted can receive court appointed appellate counsel.   It's often the case that appeals are court appointed because not a lot of people can afford to retain appellate counsel after paying for counsel for trial. 

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quarks

quarks

(edited)
15 minutes ago, louannems said:

Do defendants with a public attorney also have access to appeals?  Or just private paying?

In theory yes, in practice, most defense attorneys (private, public, pro bono) do not have the specific skills/experience needed to handle a federal appeals case. So defendants generally have to pay for an appeals attorney, or get an attorney to take them on for free - a generally overworked one. 

Some inmates end up trying to do their own appeals, with mixed results. Others manage to get taken on by the Innocence Project or a think tank focused on one of the issues at trial. In this particular situation, for instance, Josh's attorneys were arguing back in August that the initial BitTorrent search was a violation of multiple constitutional rights, thus making the later search warrants invalid. As it happens, a number of different groups/attorneys are arguing similar points right now, so it's at least possible that one of those groups might take an interest in this particular case.....

....but I doubt it. Most of those discussions that I've seen have focused either on the concerns of multimedia conglomerates like AT&T/WarnerMedia and Disney; political dissidents in various countries; or online harassment. All of these groups can find significantly more sympathetic defendants than Josh Duggar as they discuss what the federal government should or should not be monitoring online and the limits of that moderation. 

Edited by quarks
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CouchTater

CouchTater

3 minutes ago, realityfan26 said:

All she would’ve had to do was go before the media & keep it in the news. She probably thinks going to the authorities was enough. With JB, we know you have to sink lower. 

Right!  And if she chose not to rock the boat in her little inbred fundie world, that's fine.  But she looks ridiculous joining the hallelujah chorus now.  I'll say it again, fuck right off Bobby (I've decided not to remember her dumb spelling).

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SnapHappy

SnapHappy

(edited)

I'm betting Amy's first post about this is going to be less venomous and more tolerant than the last ones have been. 

I think she'll want to now be seen as supportive and nurturing, since shit weasel has now gotten his ass handed to him, and was taken away in cuffs. 

She can afford to be magnanimous now.  

ETA: her post came in while I was typing.  Hehe

Edited by SnapHappy
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Zella

Zella

Just now, quarks said:

I do think this serves as a useful reminder to us all that if the feds come knocking at your used car lot with a search warrant, ask them if they are there about the cars, not about downloading CSAM.

 

And don't even do that! Just demand to see your lawyer and keep the mouth shut otherwise. Not that I have a shady used car lot. LOL 

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CouchTater

CouchTater

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Sun is posting pics of the exit. They all look pretty grim, understandably, but does my eye spy Hilaria? Can't link to the pics, but there are some of Anna leaving flanked by what appears to be TFDW and Hilaria. 

Yup, our girl Hilaria would never disappoint us.  Why does her hand look like a claw???

 

image.thumb.png.545b01aa2cd712e723ef45f3226f3793.png

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absnow54

absnow54

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Sun is posting pics of the exit. They all look pretty grim, understandably, but does my eye spy Hilaria? Can't link to the pics, but there are some of Anna leaving flanked by what appears to be TFDW and Hilaria. 

I mean, at least she has someone to comfort her, since her mother and mother in law couldn't be bothered to show up, and the Duggar men have to be careful touching her, lest any ungodly body parts touch.

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hathorlive

hathorlive

10 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

Is there any chance that if he enforces enhancers it would be grounds for an appeal - malicious sentencing or whatever? I would assume this isn't the first case you've seen where enhancers could be justified. So if they don't typically enforce them would there be a problem down the road where he's let out earlier? 

I can't see it causing an appeal.  The enhancers are on the book.  But I've had videos worse than what was discussed in Josh's trail, with a younger victim (let that sink in) and the judge scoffed in court when the AUSA brought up enhancers.  I mean, this was a while back, maybe 6 or 7 years ago but the judge said there was some dissatisfaction and that "they" (an unnamed group or policy board)  was looking to fix/edit/get rid of them. So he didn't want to sentence someone based on criteria that might go away.  They are still on the books though, as far as I know, and I hope the judge uses all of them.  I just never expect it. 

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libgirl2

libgirl2

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Sun is posting pics of the exit. They all look pretty grim, understandably, but does my eye spy Hilaria? Can't link to the pics, but there are some of a Anna leaving flanked by what appears to be TFDW and Hilaria. 

Yes, it is Hilaria and TFDW. I get he is family for Anna, but where is her mother? Or a sister? 

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

image.png.7077a6ff6fbbf001eaf642d2cbfaa466.png

Thank you--that was the one! 

2 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Yup, our girl Hilaria would never disappoint us.  Why does her hand look like a claw???

 

image.thumb.png.545b01aa2cd712e723ef45f3226f3793.png

Perhaps even someone as attention-seeking as our Hilaria (you are so right--she never fails!) is not enjoying that kind of media moment. I wonder if they really thought Josh was going to be acquitted? 

Edited by Zella
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SnapHappy

SnapHappy

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I mean, at least she has someone to comfort her, since her mother and mother in law couldn't be bothered to show up, and the Duggar men have to be careful touching her, lest any ungodly body parts touch.

Comfort her?  The girl has got professional levels of eyeliner and mascara on.  She had ZERO plans to get emotional or shed a single tear, regardless.   She knew the "stoic" look was required and wouldn't need any comfort from anybody.  

Ice cold, man.  

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lascuba

lascuba

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1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

Yes, it is Hilaria and TFDW. I get he is family for Anna, but where is her mother? Or a sister? 

Of course Hilaria is flanking Anna. She needs the emotional high of knowing she was right there "comforting" her.

I thought at least one member of Anna's family, other than TFDW, would be there for the verdict. I have no sympathy for Anna, but damn, that's harsh.

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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

but JB is there.    I seriously wonder if the jury signalled in some way they were close to a verdict and the judge let everyone know to be there in the morning.  Because sure Josh has to stick close and Anna is glued to his side.   But JB wouldn't be there just to hang around for hours waiting just in case.   

The one time I was an attorney in a federal trial (in NYC) we had to remain in the courtroom during jury deliberations in case the jury had questions.  We were not even allowed to wait in the cafeteria. 

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Anyone find pictures of Felon Josh crying?

I need to see them!

No photos allowed in the courtroom.

I don' t know how that courthouse is constructed but there's probably an attached/underground garage where the marshals can load him into a vehicle to be driven to the local jail. I would expect he'd be held in a local jail pending sentencing. The feds and local authorities have agreements about holding prisoners in federal matters in local jails.

And, yes I wouldn't mind at all seeing Josh doing a perp walk. Sigh.

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hathorlive

hathorlive

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10 minutes ago, quarks said:

In this particular situation, for instance, Josh's attorneys were arguing back in August that the initial BitTorrent search was a violation of multiple constitutional rights, thus making the later search warrants invalid. As it happens, a number of different groups/attorneys are arguing similar points right now, so it's at least possible that one of those groups might take an interest in this particular case.....

This just fries my fritters.  The only way the government's software works is because individual's open their download folder for torrent programs to shared.  That means ANYONE can see what's in there because you literally put it on display.  If a cop is driving around and sees a guy shoot a woman, he doesn't need a warrant to intercede.  Josh essentially hung his CP on a clothesline for the world to see.  There is no expectation of privacy when you open the folder up.  Grr. Off my soap box.  I'm supposed to fast for another 2 hours but I think all these typing deserves a nice cheeseburger, right?  We've all worked really hard this week. We deserve carbs!!!!

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

Sun is posting pics of the exit. They all look pretty grim, understandably, but does my eye spy Hilaria? Can't link to the pics, but there are some of a Anna leaving flanked by what appears to be TFDW and Hilaria. 

Looks like Hilaria to me, too......She hasn't had nearly as many opportunities for her Duggar-created fame as she'd hoped for, so she's taking what she can get, I suppose. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

1 minute ago, Jeeves said:

No photos allowed in the courtroom.

I don' t know how that courthouse is constructed but there's probably an attached/underground garage where the marshals can load him into a vehicle to be driven to the local jail. I would expect he'd be held in a local jail pending sentencing. The feds and local authorities have agreements about holding prisoners in federal matters in local jails.

And, yes I wouldn't mind at all seeing Josh doing a perp walk. Sigh.

Well, I hope the star struck paparazzi are following him to his next stop.

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Tikichick

Tikichick

8 minutes ago, quarks said:

In theory yes, in practice, most defense attorneys (private, public, pro bono) do not have the specific skills/experience needed to handle a federal appeals case. So defendants generally have to pay for an appeals attorney, or get an attorney to take them on for free - a generally overworked one. 

Some inmates end up trying to do their own appeals, with mixed results. Others manage to get taken on by the Innocence Project or a think tank focused on one of the issues at trial. In this particular situation, for instance, Josh's attorneys were arguing back in August that the initial BitTorrent search was a violation of multiple constitutional rights, thus making the later search warrants invalid. As it happens, a number of different groups/attorneys are arguing similar points right now, so it's at least possible that one of those groups might take an interest in this particular case.....

....but I doubt it. Most of those discussions that I've seen have focused either on the concerns of multimedia conglomerates like AT&T/WarnerMedia and Disney; political dissidents in various countries; or online harassment. All of these groups can find significantly more sympathetic defendants than Josh Duggar as they discuss what the federal government should or should not be monitoring online and the limits of that moderation. 

I think perhaps there is some confusion about what an appeal actually is.   Absolutely if you are convicted you are entitled to court appointed counsel to "perfect your appeal".   That doesn't mean that you get a trial.   It means your appellate counsel would obtain transcripts of all hearings, look at your defense attorney's case files and other information and submit briefs to the appellate court outlining legal reasons and any alleged palpable legal errors associated with your case that should be taken up on appeal.   Most of the time appeals end when the appellate court denies whatever is raised in those briefs and that is the end of the appeal.    Because most of it is administrative in nature and the only "ruling" of the appeals court is a denial to hear an appeal (have a trial on it), to most observers and defendants it seems they never got an appeal.    

  

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Tikichick

Tikichick

27 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

Is there any chance that if he enforces enhancers it would be grounds for an appeal - malicious sentencing or whatever? I would assume this isn't the first case you've seen where enhancers could be justified. So if they don't typically enforce them would there be a problem down the road where he's let out earlier? 

It would trigger an appeal of sentence only, not apply to an appeal of the overall guilty verdict. 

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MissT

MissT

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

OMG. I can't believe it came so fast.  I hope Jill was in court.  I hope Joy sees that sometimes justice happens, even for females.  I hope Austin punches Josh and Derrick cites some arcane legal theorist.  I hope Jill names her next baby or dog "Justice".  Hey, that starts with a J.

J is for JUSTICE.

LOL -- I love your comment !!! 

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