Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Nysha]

If Josh breaks his release roles and gets arrested again does the prosecution have to notify his lawyers first or is that Josh's responsibility.

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Nysha said:

If Josh breaks his release roles and gets arrested again does the prosecution have to notify his lawyers first or is that Josh's responsibility.

I assume he'd call them with his one phone call. Or he'd call Big Daddy Jim Bob with his one phone call and then Jim Bob would call the attorneys.*

*Disclaimer: I am totally talking out of my ass and have no idea and would be interested in what our lawyers have to say.  

Edited May 12, 2021 by Zella

[Quilt Fairy]

11 hours ago, hathorlive said:

It will be interesting if they challenge geolocation in court.  I mean, if it's good enough for NASA, it's probably good enough for court.  I've never heard anyone challenge this before.

Well, you know, if it's not mentioned in the 1611 KJV it's probably suspect.

[mynextmistake]

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

When Josiah was younger he was a bit like Josh 2.0 in terms of smugness.  But then there was that incident where he was visibly upset when Michelle announced she was pregnant with # 20 and shortly after he began the trips to Alert. 

I always thought he was pushed into the courtship with Marjorie because there were signs he was playing for the other team.  People here continued to speculate about that possibility even after he married Lauren.  Also, the courtship with Marjorie ended shortly after the original Josh scandal broke, and everyone thought that was why she bailed.  This is the first time I ever heard any mention of him pressuring Marjorie to sext.

That said, if he was working with Josh at the car lot I suppose he could be implicated by association.  And I totally can see his POS brother throwing him under the bus. Because if Josh is going down he will not hesitate to take as many family members with him as possible.

Marjorie also had ambitions beyond marrying at 18 and spending 20 years breeding for Jesus. She graduated from an actual accredited college and has a job. I always thought the courtship was something her parents pushed her into and the Josh revelations just gave her an excuse to back out that her parents couldn’t argue with. 

[Zella]

I'm not convinced any of the rumors--that another sibling is implicated in the Homeland Security investigations (beyond potentially being a witness) or that Josiah was trying to get Marjorie to sext with him--are true, but I also can't help but wonder if what these people (besides Josh the Creep) think of as sexting is what anyone else would think of as sexting. I mean, hell, would sending someone a picture of a full-frontal hug scandalize them? 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Zella

[Snow Fairy]

Maybe they think sending a kiss or kissing emoji is sexting?

[Kellyee]

Quote

I'm not convinced any of the rumors--that another sibling is implicated in the Homeland Security investigations (beyond potentially being a witness) or that Josiah was trying to get Marjorie to sext with him--are true, but I also can't help but wonder if what these people (besides Josh the Creep) think of as sexting is what anyone else would think of as sexting. I mean, hell, would sending someone a picture of a full-frontal hug scandalize them? 

Considering that Jim Bob thinks Michelle had "baggage" before they met at 17, God only know what these people consider a scandal.

I remember Josiah being very smug when he was still a little kid. Lauren has always seemed more mainstream somehow and less smug.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gigi43]

There's a huge difference between wanting to sext with someone you're courting and downloading CP, to associate sexting with being a sign of the other is wildly unfair. Josiah's name comes up a lot in this because he worked in the car lot. If Josiah knew what Josh was up to that could be a reason to be investigated, and Josh would probably love to take the heat off himself and blame someone else but I think Josiah would have been arrested along with Josh or Josh wouldn't have been arrested now if the case was easily open to Josh pinning it on him. For all we know Josiah could have helped the Feds make the case, which would give Josh extra reason to turn around and say it was him. 

 

Josiah is like 10yrs younger than Josh, growing up he may not have realized how big of a deal what Josh did was, where as JD, for example, was older and probably well aware of why there were locks on Josh's door and why he was sent away for three months, and so on. JB continued to push Josh as a role model to the younger ones.

 

Also, I think a lot of these rumors are people who don't want to wait for real information or the trial in July and want to keep discussion going whether its true or not. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Gigi43

[MsJamieDornan]

7 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

Also, I think a lot of these rumors are people who don't want to wait for real information or the trial in July and want to keep discussion going whether its true or not. 

You're absolutely right.

[lascuba]

I would be surprised if any of the Duggars are confiding in anyone at this point, so any rumors about what's been happening since the arrest--or even since the initial raid--are likely made up out of thin air.

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Kellyee said:

Considering that Jim Bob thinks Michelle had "baggage" before they met at 17, God only know what these people consider a scandal.

She was 15.  Imagine all that baggage! 

 I will also point out Sexting is not illegal, and that was a lame rumor to begin with.

[3girlsforus]

If the rumor that Josh is trying to make a deal by throwing someone else in the family under the bus has any truth I imagine it goes something like this. 

The person is Josiah because he worked at the car lot. Josh realizes that Josiah worked at the car lot so he tells his lawyer it could have been Josiah who downloaded the stuff. Josh's lawyers know this is crap but see if the Feds take the bait. The Feds laugh their asses off. 

[BigBingerBro]

Is John David still a constable?  I wonder if this scandal will have any effect on his being re-elected?

[NotthebadVictoria]

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

You're absolutely right.

What makes this hard, is that this family is so fucked up most of the rumors are plausible! 

[Ohiopirate02]

27 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Is John David still a constable?  I wonder if this scandal will have any effect on his being re-elected?

Why would JD have to resign?  He is an adult, married and living under a different roof than Josh.  Josh is also an adult who committed crimes.  Unless JD is also indicted, he would be in the clear.  As to him being re-elected, it all depends on if someone else runs against him.  The position has no teeth and seems largely ceremonial, so not that many people even care about running.  If he has zero opposition, then he might win the election based upon voter apathy.

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The position has no teeth

An Arkansas constable actually has the power to arrest a county sheriff. I doubt JD actually does anything since he is so close to a city that law enforcement response time is unlikely an issue there, but constables in the state are not powerless. In fact, a lot of people would argue just the opposite--they have too much power. 

That being said, I also doubt JD the constable would be able to provide much help to Josh right now, even if he was inclined to do so.

[BigBingerBro]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Why would JD have to resign?  He is an adult, married and living under a different roof than Josh.  Josh is also an adult who committed crimes.  Unless JD is also indicted, he would be in the clear.  As to him being re-elected, it all depends on if someone else runs against him.  The position has no teeth and seems largely ceremonial, so not that many people even care about running.  If he has zero opposition, then he might win the election based upon voter apathy.

I didn't say anything about him resigning.  I was asking if he is still holding that position.  I feel bad for him as this latest scandal may make things hard for him.

[Jeanne222]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

I'm not convinced any of the rumors--that another sibling is implicated in the Homeland Security investigations (beyond potentially being a witness) or that Josiah was trying to get Marjorie to sext with him--are true, but I also can't help but wonder if what these people (besides Josh the Creep) think of as sexting is what anyone else would think of as sexting. I mean, hell, would sending someone a picture of a full-frontal hug scandalize them? 

Was Josiah heavy with Josh when he was courting Marjorie?

Sounds like something Josh would put a brother up to!

[3 is enough]

I can see it now:  "Hey Marjorie, can you send me a picture of your collarbones? " 

[iwantcookies]

12 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I can see it now:  "Hey Marjorie, can you send me a picture of your collarbones? " 

Or your knees???

Hahaha

[JoanArc]

35 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I can see it now:  "Hey Marjorie, can you send me a picture of your collarbones? " 

“ show me you’re a bad girl.....let’s use a condom”

[lulu69]

7 hours ago, Kellyee said:

Considering that Jim Bob thinks Michelle had "baggage" before they met at 17, God only know what these people consider a scandal.

And yet they didnt consider their own son molesting his sisters, repeatedly, a scandal at all. To quote JB & Mechelle, "It was no big deal".

Go figure.

[Nysha]

48 minutes ago, lulu69 said:

And yet they didnt consider their own son molesting his sisters, repeatedly, a scandal at all. To quote JB & Mechelle, "It was no big deal".

In Michelle's defense, it was no big deal for Josh. The sexually abused sisters clearly had baggage they needed to repent for.

[Crochetlady]

3 hours ago, lulu69 said:

And yet they didnt consider their own son molesting his sisters, repeatedly, a scandal at all. To quote JB & Mechelle, "It was no big deal".

Go figure.

Well they think it happens in all families, or most families, so that could be part of it. Bunch of sick people. 

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, Crochetlady said:

Well they think it happens in all families, or most families, so that could be part of it. Bunch of sick people. 

Jill's statistic was 2/3 of families. Straight outta Gothard.

[JoanArc]

18 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Jill's statistic was 2/3 of families. Straight outta Gothard.

Look at the 1:40 mark  just in case anyone wants to hear Jill explain how 2/3 of families deal with having siblings molest other siblings. Really sick. She actually implies that it’s even occurring in more than 2/3 of families.  She was so brainwashed.  I forgot how childlike she sounded during that interview too.  Jessa did a valiant job of sticking to her talking points and getting every pre-written talking point out there. 

Jessa also made sure to point out that she did not consider Josh a pedophile. So there’s that too. 

 In that clip they also nervously giggle that no other Duggar family secret is going to come out. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by JoanArc

[SMama]

27 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 In that clip they also nervously giggle that no other Duggar family secret is going to come out. 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😝

[JoanArc]

10 minutes ago, SMama said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😝

 Keep in mind, this was pre-Ashley Madison, too!  😅

[SMama]

The victims really memorized those talking points, but IIRC Mullet and Jill had a cheat sheet on their laps. Jill referred to professional counseling, and Jessa said licensed counseling. 🙄 One of them said Volderjosh received counseling and he had to pay for it himself. What a crock of excrement. If it’s true Jill didn’t want to do the interview and was pressured, Boob and Mullet are not just bad parents. They are fucking vile, evil, devoid of any redeeming qualities. I hope Grandpa Duggar meets them at the pearly gates and throws their asses down into hell, where they belong. 

[Gweilo]

On 5/11/2021 at 3:38 AM, MargeGunderson said:

God multitasks like a boss.

That's how we know she's a woman.

[Future Cat Lady]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

The victims really memorized those talking points, but IIRC Mullet and Jill had a cheat sheet on their laps. Jill referred to professional counseling, and Jessa said licensed counseling. 🙄 One of them said Volderjosh received counseling and he had to pay for it himself. What a crock of excrement. If it’s true Jill didn’t want to do the interview and was pressured, Boob and Mullet are not just bad parents. They are fucking vile, evil, devoid of any redeeming qualities. I hope Grandpa Duggar meets them at the pearly gates and throws their asses down into hell, where they belong. 

They had Jill and Jessa out themselves as victims so they could go on TV defending their abuser. Meanwhile, Josh was hidden away for protection. He never had to explain himself.

[lilwhitelion]

I just finished watching God is Grey's latest YT video, with Jen from Fundie Fridays as her guest.  I was surprised that Brenda (God is Grey) didn't know very much about the Duggars.  Jen had to bring her up to speed on the past abuses by Josh, etc.  It's well worth a watch.  Much of what they cover has been discussed on here.  One thing Jen pointed out was that Josh's iPhone had to be seized and they would not let Josh use it (to call his attorney) as perps have 'kill switches' on phones that will erase material they want hidden.

[SMama]

4 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

They had Jill and Jessa out themselves as victims so they could go on TV defending their abuser. Meanwhile, Josh was hidden away for protection. He never had to explain himself.

Jill and Jessa were upset about being re victimized by the disclosure of their molestation by the media. Yet not a word about their godly (🤮) parents dragging them to do an interview to absolve their abuser of any responsibility. Meanwhile their abuser was shielded from public accountability while he was screwing around on Ashley Madison. 

[hathorlive]

13 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Look at the 1:40 mark  just in case anyone wants to hear Jill explain how 2/3 of families deal with having siblings molest other siblings. Really sick. She actually implies that it’s even occurring in more than 2/3 of families.  She was so brainwashed.  I forgot how childlike she sounded during that interview too.  Jessa did a valiant job of sticking to her talking points and getting every pre-written talking point out there. 

 

This.  Every time I see this interview, it's like watching Stockholm Syndrome in action.  She looks like she's reading a hostage note.  I could dislike JB and Mechelle for so many reasons, but this is the single event that made me despise them.  You forced your daughter to traumatize herself in order to save your TV show.  It's all about money for them.  I hope God strikes them down.

[Natalie68]

13 hours ago, Gweilo said:

That's how we know she's a woman.

Exactly!

[Gigi43]

11 hours ago, lilwhitelion said:

.  One thing Jen pointed out was that Josh's iPhone had to be seized and they would not let Josh use it (to call his attorney) as perps have 'kill switches' on phones that will erase material they want hidden.

 

I think taking the phone is standard for that reason. I've seen it speculated Josh could use that to argue he was denied his rights, but, these are the feds/DHS they know what's legal and what's not. Josh could have asked them to get the number out of his contacts and called his lawyer from a phone in the car lot (if there was one) or maybe the agents would have called for him on a phone if he asked. They didn't say he couldn't contact one, just not from that phone. If Josh didn't think of using another phone, that's his own dumbassery to blame. If he kept talking to them, that's also on him. He could have just kept saying "lawyer" and they couldn't force him to answer questions. 

[RedDelicious]

Or LAWYR as it were (I can't believe nobody's brought that up, unless I missed it 😄).

[MamaMax]

 

44 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

 

I think taking the phone is standard for that reason. I've seen it speculated Josh could use that to argue he was denied his rights, but, these are the feds/DHS they know what's legal and what's not. Josh could have asked them to get the number out of his contacts and called his lawyer from a phone in the car lot (if there was one) or maybe the agents would have called for him on a phone if he asked. They didn't say he couldn't contact one, just not from that phone. If Josh didn't think of using another phone, that's his own dumbassery to blame. If he kept talking to them, that's also on him. He could have just kept saying "lawyer" and they couldn't force him to answer questions. 

Not sure being allowed to call your lawyer IMMEDIATELY is a right, To refuse to speak to law enforcement w/o one, sure. But I'm pretty sure they can arrest you and process you before allowing you to call anyone. 

 

[farmgal4]

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

This.  Every time I see this interview, it's like watching Stockholm Syndrome in action.  She looks like she's reading a hostage note.  I could dislike JB and Mechelle for so many reasons, but this is the single event that made me despise them.  You forced your daughter to traumatize herself in order to save your TV show.  It's all about money for them.  I hope God strikes them down.

From where I’m sitting, it looks like God has already taken care of that.  There’s no way for Boob and Chelle to recover from this scandal IMO.  They are DONE.

[Xena]

There's really one only lawyer who can get Josh out of this:

 

[Gigi43]

18 minutes ago, Xena said:

There's really one only lawyer who can get Josh out of this:

 

 

LMAO. Here I was thinking Josh would need someone from Wolfram and Hart,  because this family is so full of shit they would sell their souls to get what they want. 

[Zella]

I feel like Saul would take one look at Josh's case and be like "Nah, I prefer defending meth kings." LOLOL 

[kaleidoscope]

The man who grew up with Josh and is doing the "I pray you put this journal away" talks (on YouTube) has some really interesting information about how Josh treated him and Josh's knowledge of computers.  In Episode 3, beginning around the 50-minute mark, he says he went to Josh (as a person who had been through sexual trials) and was seeking counseling from a trusted friend.  It will certainly give you insight on how Josh treats his friends.  I'm wondering if this former friend will be called to testify?

Edited May 13, 2021 by kaleidoscope

[mittsigirl]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:17 PM, hathorlive said:

It's asking a jury to convict based on someone's description of the video.  I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that if I were a juror.  If we let someone else describe the video, you end up with JB and Michelle dismissing Josh's sexual abuse.  That's a person's account of something they saw.  Versus an actual witness, who gets to make their own decision based on their understanding of the law and what is sexual abuse.   Does that make sense?  If the prosecutor describes the video, it's prejudicial toward the prosecution.  If the defense attorney gets to describe it, it's slanted toward the defense.  You can't convict someone unless you get to judge for yourself.  

Don't all possible jury members get vetted before being chosen to sit on that jury? So would they not be asked if they had a major problem with viewing something so terrible as CP videos, if they could or they just could not watch such a video? You can't have a jury member that closes their eyes or peeks through their fingers while a video such as CP is being played, or how could they be doing their job properly?

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, mittsigirl said:

Don't all possible jury members get vetted before being chosen to sit on that jury? So would they not be asked if they had a major problem with viewing something so terrible as CP videos, if they could or they just could not watch such a video? You can't have a jury member that closes their eyes or peeks through their fingers while a video such as CP is being played, or how could they be doing their job properly?

I've been on juries and also been in court to testify.  In my CP cases, they are warned about the content.  I always tell people going to jury duty, to speak up during voire dire.  You can raise you hand and ask if you can speak to the judge and  lawyers.  The judge usually calls you up to the bench, and you have the option to say that you are triggered by SA and you are afraid that you can't be impartial to the defendant.  You can also say you are a survivor and that it may trigger you.  They will be more than happy to dismiss you.  And you don't have to shout your business out to the entire room.   Same if the subject matter upsets you.  

[mittsigirl]

On 5/12/2021 at 8:31 AM, NotthebadVictoria said:

What makes this hard, is that this family is so fucked up most of the rumors are plausible! 

When you see that there are 19 kids in this family, and if you look up and find the percentages of any of them being LGBTQ, really heavy in to porn, etc., then I just have to think that there are more secrets with the kids than just with Josh being so extremely sick. Though he may be the sickest, I think that there must be a few more that have much different thoughts than their parents want them to have. I just can't see having 19 kids and they all turn out to be the way their parents want them to be. Just my opinion.

[mittsigirl]

I remember how JB stuck had his chess all puffed out when he got paid for the company putting in the first cell tower in his land. I quit watching the show when the poor girls had to give that dumb interview on tv about forgiving poor Josh and the Ashley Madison thing happened. Anybody know how many cell towers that JB ended up having? 

[NotthebadVictoria]

1 hour ago, mittsigirl said:

When you see that there are 19 kids in this family, and if you look up and find the percentages of any of them being LGBTQ, really heavy in to porn, etc., then I just have to think that there are more secrets with the kids than just with Josh being so extremely sick. Though he may be the sickest, I think that there must be a few more that have much different thoughts than their parents want them to have. I just can't see having 19 kids and they all turn out to be the way their parents want them to be. Just my opinion.

You are 100% correct, They just bank on the brainwashing and controlling the purse strings to see them through. But I will jump for joy the first time one of the offspring or grandkids breaks free as LGBTQ and gets to live their life true to themselves. 

[LynneH]

2 hours ago, mittsigirl said:

When you see that there are 19 kids in this family, and if you look up and find the percentages of any of them being LGBTQ, really heavy in to porn, etc., then I just have to think that there are more secrets with the kids than just with Josh being so extremely sick. Though he may be the sickest, I think that there must be a few more that have much different thoughts than their parents want them to have. I just can't see having 19 kids and they all turn out to be the way their parents want them to be. Just my opinion.

It would take a lot of guts/self assurance for any of the duggarlings to venture out of the lifestyle as they would have to abandon everything they were taught as well as the risk of being shunned by their friends and family. 

Just as an example - Look how many LGBTQ who are educated, have the ability to support themselves, have supportive friends, etc still have trouble coming out of the closet for fear of losing the love of or disappointing some of their family members?

I'm sure there are a lot of people that have given up on their dreams - and end up doing what is "expected" of them as it's just easier to follow the path laid out in front of them.  

 

[emmawoodhouse]

7 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Or LAWYR as it were (I can't believe nobody's brought that up, unless I missed it 😄).

😂😂😂😂 That was epic!