Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[SoSueMe]

Removed the show from my DVR. Was on the verge of doing it anyway but this really seals it. I think it's a good chance the show will be canceled, but others upthread have rightfully pointed out it may make the victims a target of resentment by other members of the family and I don't want that....ugh. I don't envy the TLC brass right now, having to make a decision.

 

 

I read a lot of poignant, well-thought out posts in this thread but this one was one of my favorites. If there is ANY good that will come out of this, it's that Josh will finally be humbled and finally realize the true meaning of "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." He may come out of this with more tolerance and understanding, and will finally realize what real discrimination is. And wow, he really, really reinforces the stereotype that intolerant people who preach discrimination are the ones with the most skeletons in their own closets.

 

And wasn't he one of those who were fighting for that bill to ban transgendered people from using certain public restrooms? Part of the rationale given was that it might give child molestors easier access to children, or something.

 

I hope Josh is taking a long, long look in the mirror.

I seriously doubt that Josh will magically become tolerant and understanding now if being found out and forgiven years ago didn't do the trick. More likely he will become bitter and resentful that people are treating him as the pervert he is.

[Ljohnson1987]

I feel bad for Anna and those kids. It's too bad she has no real skills, except popping out babies. I bet now she wishes she did. Divorce is okay, Anna. Your husband is a pedophile. Protect your kids.

[awaken]

I'm just sick about all this.  To think they knew this all this time.  These kids have been living with this secret for years.  

 

I hope FRC is extremely poorly reflected on now by their followers and people begin to see the light.  I can't imagine Josh will be able to go on being their face to the political world.  

 

I'm not knowlegeable enough about the inner workings of Gothard- do his followers still support him after his sex abuse came to light?  Or was he disgraced?  

 

I can't imagine this show can stay on without a massive protest.  Others have been cancelled for less.  I hope TLC does the right thing.  

[riverblue22]

I have the gender reveal on my dvr and I've never watched it.  So now I have a different perspective.  For those who want to see it, try On Demand if you have it.

[RazzleberryPie]

In the Gothard literature he blames women for any sexual abuse they experience and explicitly states they may have given the wrong signal through their immodest dress. He also encourages forgiving the abuser. Michelle is following this model to the letter.

Exactly. They've had it drilled in their skulls that men can't control their urges and basically anything a woman does can entice a man into ravishing her. Then they have to forgive them, or they're fostering bitterness and sinning. If they report it, they're damaged goods and still enticed the godly man. 

 

Josh wasn't 14 in the same way most of us were 14.  He is going through all the crazy hormonal things that a 14 year old boy does and he has literally no outlet of normal expression.  I'm not defending his actions, not in the least.  However, I don't think he had the same vocabulary to deal with those sorts of feelings as the rest of us.  He couldn't go to his friends house and sneak porn.   He's confused.  He has urges.  And he has a lot of options to explore.  That isn't okay, really it isn't okay at all but I don't think I can give him the same weight of knowing what he was doing as I could a more traditionally raised child.

I know you're not condoning him, but still, in my own family (immediate and extended) we were very sheltered and discouraged from exploring sexuality before being married, but the thought never crossed my mind, or my siblings/cousins, that it was ok to fool around with your relatives. That's just gross. 

 

So was NIKE started to ward off Josh? 

[Ljohnson1987]

The Duggars are crazy if they think they'll ever recover from this mess.

[Lurking Amanda]

I'm just so sad for the girls.  They've already lived a nightmare; now they get to repeat it in the public eye.  It's unfair, and it beyond sucks that once again they're getting the short end of the stick.

 

I even feel a bit sorry for Josh, because I'm sure his incredibly repressive upbringing is in part responsible.

 

I never thought I could be more disgusted with Jim Bob and Michelle.  I was so very, very wrong.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I can't believe Anna is calling this a mistake. Molesting your siblings over a long period of time is pathological behaviour. It can't be prayed away or cured. I fear for Josh's children and his siblings. How could Michelle and Jim Bob be okay with allowing him access to their other children? These people should be in jail. Jim Bob, Michelle, Josh and Anna for enabling this.

[doodlebug]

 

hope FRC is extremely poorly reflected on now by their followers and people begin to see the light.  I can't imagine Josh will be able to go on being their face to the political world.hope FRC is extremely poorly reflected on now by their followers and people begin to see the light.  I can't imagine Josh will be able to go on being their face to the political world.

 

Josh has already resigned from FRC today.  I presume he and his family are on their way back to Arkansas as the Duggars circle the wagons and try to figure out how to spin this. Alas, I suspect that they've become too media savvy to say what they really think; that Joshi was innocently led astray by his wicked sisters. I do hope that the media does some investigation of Gothardism and its teachings about this stuff and well as what exactly was involved in Josh' 'counseling' after the incident and what exactly Jim Bob and Michelle did to protect their daughters in the aftermath.

 

Even if Jana wasn't molested herself, I can see Jim Bob and Michelle laying blame at her feet for not being a modest example for her sisters or otherwise not living up to her duties as female 'Buddy in Chief' and somehow preventing it from happening.  I could also see Jana taking this to heart and, as the senior mother figure to all the rest of the girls, feeling tremendous guilt and remorse that this happened.  It might almost be harder for her if the reports are true and she's the only one of the older girls who wasn't abused.

 

 If nothing else, I only hope that TLC, in the wake of a second child abuse scandal involving kids from a reality show, will start to do a better job of investigating these people before throwing money at them.

Edited May 22, 2015 by doodlebug

[Ljohnson1987]

I guess the FRC can be removed. Smugs doesn't work there anymore.

[merriebreeze]

It's all about Duggar rehab on TLC now or a final tribute show. Maybe the crew bonded with the family; maybe they're fundies themselves. Whatever. Huckabee's poison now. Whenever they filmed Josh and Anna on the couch together, she's always lower than him, looking up. It's a weird perspective for Josh and Anna and the crew. 

[bluebonnet]

This has been lost in the scandal, but can we talk about how the police officer who took the initial report did not follow up and was later sentenced to 56 years in prison for child pornography.  I'm assuming this was just a horrific coincidence, but talk about how devastating it would be for a child in a fundie family like this to finally be told their abuser will face justice only for nothing to come of it while a different abuser is properly punished.  

[sigmaforce86]

For those saying Anna should divorce him......People and Entertainment Weekly both have articles up and they're quoting Anna as saying that Josh confessed everything to her and her parents before the were married. Whether that's true and she kept that secret all this time or she's being manipulated to keep sweet and follow a script now it seems to show she's not going anywhere.

I do feel a little bad for him losing his job but ONLY because of how it's going to affect Anna and especially the kids. A future job in the public eye is out - is the SOTDRT enough to give him a decent behind the scenes low level desk job

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/21/people-duggar-family-speaks-after-josh-duggar-accused-molestation

[truthtalk2014]

I don't think we can even begin to imagine the ripples from this. This is TLC's cash cow.

I do worry about the effect on the younger kids, who have grown up with the crew members and seem pretty attached to them. They've never known any other kind of life. I hope the demise of the show doesn't make things worse for them, financially or otherwise.

More rod training no doubt-  with less people to see what is really going on.

[CofCinci]

I'd really like to know how long TLC knew about the abuse?

[Seashell Lover]

Could this be the reason why Blob was kicked out of politics?

[Ljohnson1987]

Anna knew about this, and still married him. WTF? What idiocy on her part.

[Cherrio]

It's all about Duggar rehab on TLC now or a final tribute show. Maybe the crew bonded with the family; maybe they're fundies themselves. Whatever. Huckabee's poison now. Whenever they filmed Josh and Anna on the couch together, she's always lower than him, looking up. It's a weird perspective for Josh and Anna and the crew. 

I know a lot of people think the crew were only doing their jobs, but these people have seen a lot of bad stuff at the Duggars and at least one other large reality family show and their lips are sealed.    I would rather make minimum wage cleaning toilets than spend one second in that house knowing bad things are going on. Sure they signed confidentiality agreements, but they could of walked away and they didn't.      That tells me they are also fundies , pieces of shit or both.

 I do not feel sorry for them at all.   

[Fuzzysox]

The best we can hope for is that Anna goes to stay with her parents for a while, while Josh goes back home to reacquaint himself with the ole tow truck. Heehaw him and JD runing the roads towing trucks.

[Cherrio]

Anna knew about this, and still married him. WTF? What idiocy on her part.

Its the M theme.   Molester marries Moron.

[poopchute]

For those saying Anna should divorce him......People and Entertainment Weekly both have articles up and they're quoting Anna as saying that Josh confessed everything to her and her parents before the were married.

I find it really, really hard to believe that Josh told Anna's parents he molested his sisters and then they said to Anna "yes we want you to marry this man." No fucking way.

[Cherrio]

As the victim/survivor of child sexual abuse by a man who hid behind his religion and clearly said to me that it didn't matter if I forgave him because Jesus already had, I have a hard time having any sympathy for Josh. I have even less for Jim Bob and Michelle who, if the reports are correct that one or more victims was a sister, put their own political aspirations, fame whoring, and embarrassment ahead of their daughter(s)' well being. From what I am reading it happened and was reported to Jim Bob at least three times? I'm sorry but it stopped being only Josh's fault when he did nothing substantial to stop it the first time. Jim Bob is just as guilty for not protecting his children.

 

And again, I speak as a survivor here whose molester was a married man. If Anna truly knew of this prior to marrying him and having children with him, she is just as much to blame if he does anything to his own children. I don't care that he was a young teen at the time. He had no right to do what he did. He has no right now to act self-righteous and pious because his mother was fertile.

Wow, I am so sorry for what you went thru.  I feel rage for you about the ever familiar Christian cloak these monsters hide behind.

          Thank  you for sharing your story and feelings.

[EarlGreyTea]

I find it really, really hard to believe that Josh told Anna's parents he molested his sisters and then they said to Anna "yes we want you to marry this man." No fucking way.

 

Yeah, agreed. I'd like to know exactly what he told them. He may have downplayed it a lot. I can't see starry-eyed, young, naive Anna being okay with it on one hand, but on the other hand she was also in love with her first-ever boyfriend, probably convinced he could do no wrong. In that case, her parents should have put the kibosh on the courtship, as they should have had clearer heads than their teenage daughter.

 

Remember how we all thought Anna made the best marriage of the Keller girls? Guess ol' TFDW takes the top spot now.

Edited May 22, 2015 by EarlGreyTea

[autumnh]

I truly believe the that Duggars believe that the men in their family mean more than the females. I don't think it will be too long until we see the Duggars vanish from TLC...they cannot condone, explain or escape this....unfortunately we will be be seeing more of the Willis Family. Ugh....quit with the big Christian families. I miss the TLC of old.

[jb0495]

The only article I've seen referencing his sisters is from TMZ. TMZ is not credible, in my opinion. Not condoning whatever "mistakes" Josh may have made but do we know for sure it involved his sisters?

I'm bummed a bit if the show is cancelled--only because I'll miss watching the train wreck & snarking on them!

[autumnh]

Well you cannot fake a police report

 

http://imgur.com/a/zqPMi#10

[Saylii]

The only article I've seen referencing his sisters is from TMZ. TMZ is not credible, in my opinion. Not condoning whatever "mistakes" Josh may have made but do we know for sure it involved his sisters?

I'm bummed a bit if the show is cancelled--only because I'll miss watching the train wreck & snarking on them!

 

The police report refers to females that have the parents Michelle Duggar and Jim Bob Duggar.  There's only two interviews that don't refer to Michelle & Jim Bob as parents and the speculation is that it's either Amy or an unnamed third party.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Saylii

[Magoo]

Here is the interview episode from YouTube (please correct me if this is not the right one): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4NzmVEFPrY

 

 

 

[MichaelaRae]

The police report clearly states that at least some of the victims are the children of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar.

[BulldogAreGreat]

 

Even if Jana wasn't molested herself, I can see Jim Bob and Michelle laying blame at her feet for not being a modest example for her sisters or otherwise not living up to her duties as female 'Buddy in Chief' and somehow preventing it from happening.  I could also see Jana taking this to heart and, as the senior mother figure to all the rest of the girls, feeling tremendous guilt and remorse that this happened.  It might almost be harder for her if the reports are true and she's the only one of the older girls who wasn't abused.

 

Long time lurker on here and TWOP, had to make an account to now. 

 

I am disgusted! And I agree with the quoted post. I think Jana is still in the house because of this, I hesitate to call, incident. She is being guilted from her parents to stay or she is so worried that something similar will happen to the younger girls that she feels the need to stay and protect them. 

 

If the show gets canceled, the only people that will really be fine are Jill and her family because at least her husband has an actual job. 

[SoSueMe]

I truly believe the that Duggars believe that the men in their family mean more than the females. I don't think it will be too long until we see the Duggars vanish from TLC...they cannot condone, explain or escape this....unfortunately we will be be seeing more of the Willis Family. Ugh....quit with the big Christian families. I miss the TLC of old.

I know they aren't fans of Darwin but surely they must realize that perpetuation of a species can be accomplished with many less males than females, lol. And reproduction is their wheelhouse after all.

[Vaysh]

The only article I've seen referencing his sisters is from TMZ. TMZ is not credible, in my opinion. Not condoning whatever "mistakes" Josh may have made but do we know for sure it involved his sisters?

Edit: Nevermind, others made the point better. :)

Edited May 22, 2015 by Vaysh

[shipmate]

This a total Flowers in the Attic thing -- those kids were trapped together, not allowed to associate outside the family for the most part. Josh hits puberty and the only girls he knows are his sisters. I am not excusing him at all, but I do place A LOT of blame on Jim Bob and Michelle. They say that physical contact of any kind (outside of maybe sidehugs) outside of marriage is a grave sin, but then JB goes around dry humping Michelle in front of the kids all the time.

[JennyMominFL]

OMG, The buddy system AKA accountability partners. Was this to make sure it didn't happen again?

Did one of the victims say that it happened for years?

[xls]

I seriously doubt that Josh will magically become tolerant and understanding now if being found out and forgiven years ago didn't do the trick. More likely he will become bitter and resentful that people are treating him as the pervert he is.

They're probably thinking to themselves: "I thankful he's/ I'm not gay!" 

[jb0495]

Oh ok, I didn't see that part of the police report. I was reading up in the comments instead of from top down.

[Darknight]

I am amazed at anyone who defends this behavior or feels bad for them. How many sisters mean "some of his sisters" Sexual abuse in any for is unforgivable...and unless you go thorough it...you have no idea what is is like. It is INEXCUSABLE in any way , shape or form. He should not be given a free pass....ever.

The fucking thumpers keeps saying who cares he was just a kid, or so it's in the past. They're the fucking problem. That guy from Penn state molested boys for years before it came out. And if there are 12yo on trial for murder then there are kids who molest. It's like if you're christian you can do no wrong.

[mynextmistake]

If the Duggars think that their biggest potential problem is being dropped by TLC, they should really think again. The statute of limitations may have passed for criminal charges, but Child Protective Services could still take action. There are still minor girls in both Jim Bob and Michelle's home and Josh and Anna's home. I'm not sure to what extent CPS was involved back in 2006, but Josh's ongoing access to minors and public admission of the truth of the allegations is enough to allow them to reinvestigate now to ensure he doesn't still present a risk to anybody, especially if the publicity triggers any fresh complaints.

Note that I'm not saying I necessarily think Josh is still a risk to abuse anybody. The point is that he was never formally evaluated or counseled, so nobody really knows whether he still presents a risk or not. And even if he doesn't, Jim Bob and Michelle's failure to report him or seek treatment for him for three years, during which time he continued to have access to minor girls, almost certainly meets the definition of criminal neglect.

This whole situation disgusts me. Jim Bob and Michelle are terrible, terrible parents. They had an obligation to their daughters once they found out about this situation, and they totally blew it.

[EarlGreyTea]

OMG, The buddy system AKA accountability partners. Was this to make sure it didn't happen again?

Did one of the victims say that it happened for years?

 

Good point. As I said in the Jana thread, I think a lot of light bulbs are going off in viewers' heads now. Things the Duggars, did, said, and practiced over the years are now making a whole LOT of sense. So many puzzle pieces are fitting together now.

[bluebonnet]

They're probably thinking to themselves: "I thankful he's/ I'm not gay!" 

I'm super pissed for the victims of course.  But outside of that, I'm really just so pissed that Josh and the FRC can act like god will just forgive everything he does and yet the gays are the evil, unforgiveable ones who are somehow so super bad for children.  

[3girlsforus]

Anna knew about this, and still married him. WTF? What idiocy on her part.

 

What it says is that he 'confessed" to her. But even in his statement today he talks about making mistakes and ask for forgiveness in a way that really does in any way seem to imply that he really admits what he did. So it makes me wonder what she was really told. I have a hard time seeing any woman agreeing to marry a man who says 'oh by the way I sexually abused 5 of my sisters but I asked for forgiveness'. 

[doodlebug]

Did one of the victims say that it happened for years?

 

The police reports mention several separate incidents taking place months and months apart, meaning it was well over a year.  This seems to have been taken from Jim Bob's statement to the police.  It appears Jim Bob and Michelle did not seek counseling for Josh until after it happened repeatedly.  No mention of any counseling or treatment for the girls as victims of abuse.

[Darknight]

I find it really, really hard to believe that Josh told Anna's parents he molested his sisters and then they said to Anna "yes we want you to marry this man." No fucking way.

Well they probably prayed it away like everything else. These people sweep things under the rug. I think the girls went through enough shit already. I wonder of gothard did something as well.

[Pete Martell]

I truly believe the that Duggars believe that the men in their family mean more than the females. I don't think it will be too long until we see the Duggars vanish from TLC...they cannot condone, explain or escape this....unfortunately we will be be seeing more of the Willis Family. Ugh....quit with the big Christian families. I miss the TLC of old.

 

I'm so cynical that I can't help wondering if a blind eye will be turned due to this family making cash for TLC and some media outlets. I can see the spin being that he made a "mistake," has repented, and will prove his goodness through his faith and family. People, which would likely change its name to Duggar Weekly if possible, might write puff pieces. TLC may still go along. And many of their fans will likely see him as a martyr, as a victim of persecution, because _____ liberal/homosexual/non-Christian did something bad so he can do whatever he wants, leave him alone.

 

Even that disgusting Mama June continues to get to appear on shows like The Doctors, after what she brought into her home. 

 

I wish I did believe this would send them back to their rathole.

[truthtalk2014]

Does anyone else not feel sorry for the Family Research Council?  They gave a guy with NO degree a job to be a media spokes person (probably cuz he already had a built-in following) and never did a background check?  Give the job to someone who actually took the time to go to college!

NO!  They are a hate group and are getting exactly what they deserve.

 

Isn't Josh in trouble with the IRS for unpaid taxes? How is he going to pay that off now with 4 kids and no job? 

 

I think they are going to be living in Esther's used pop-up camper.

I really think that this family knew this was coming and this is the reason Josh bought the house in AR a while back.  Boob will have all the girls (that may have been abused) come over and do all the repairs - and Jana can come over be nanny to all his children.  OMG- can I say how much I can't stand them (meaning Boob, MEchelle and Joshlestor. ) 

[3girlsforus]

Ok - for all the psychiatrists out there... There is a lot of talk about Josh's children and worries about their safety. Obviously that's a legitimate question but Josh was 14 when he fondled his sisters. It's that a psychologically different thing than a man who molests a child in terms of 'once a pedophile always a pedophile?'.

[Kiss my mutt]

Can civil charges be filed?

[dillpickles]

radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Expungement-signed.pdf

Free jinger thinks joy may have been the one to sign for the uncensored report to be destroyed

[lbsm330]

I'm a bit torn over whether Anna knew the complete truth before they married. I can't decide if they told her partial truth that didn't seem so bad or if they knew the whole story. It's been fairly obvious to me that Anna's family didn't have much money, almost to the point of poverty, and maybe her family did know exactly what happened and chose to overlook it because this was their ticket to having more money. Or maybe the parents knew but sugarcoated it when telling Anna so she would still fawn over him. If so, shame on the Kellers.

[doodlebug]

 

Can civil charges be filed?

Probably, at least for any of the girls involved who are 19 and a half or under.  She'd also have to be willing to do it, which seems doubtful with this bunch.  Not a lawyer, but I am a doctor.  I know about the statute of limitations on malpractice, which is a civil charge,  As an obstetrician, the parents have exactly one year from the date of the injury to sue me on behalf of their child although they can file for a 6 month extension which will automatically be granted. If the parents don't sue on behalf of the child, there's another opportunity for the child to file for themselves.  In the case of a minor, the statute doesn't start to run until that child turns 18 and then they get the same year and a half to file.  This is how it goes where I live, anyway, but I don't live in Arkansas.

Edited May 22, 2015 by doodlebug