Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Sew Sumi]

The People article which was written very quickly it seems said Josh told Anna TWO years before they were married??  Since when did they court that long?  I call more lies!  Is this why Anna and Josh went away suddenly on their own little mini vacation too?

I was 100% sure yesterday that they were headed back to AR to circle the wagons. Today's events pretty much confirm this. Smuggar never would have quit without an assurance from his sleazy father that there would be a carlot waiting for him to run. 

 

I hate these people. I hope the girls (and Anna) get some real help. 

 

I wonder if the "61 year old woman" could be the old church friend who started helping Mechelle with the laundry after her meltdown? The age is about right. 

[MichaelaRae]

The Josh Who? Tour continues on TLC, with "Duggars Guide to Love" rerun replaced by the Jill/Derek Nepal events. Subtle, TLC. Even the TWC cable guide knows what you're doing.

Edited May 22, 2015 by MichaelaRae

[ThinkerBell]

There have been rumours about Josh Duggar for years suggesting that he had abused at least one of his sisters. TLC had to know about these awful details. The Learning Channel perpetuated the ridiculous Duggar illusion, and made a fortune off a family they knew were hiding a horrible secret. Given the time frame when the now admitted abuse happened, it's not difficult to deduce which sister/sisters were victimised. I hope TLC cancels the show and provides counselling and financial compensation for the Duggar girls whose dignity and well-being were sacrificed by a television network that cared only about ratings.

[Shopgirl406]

I am just sick to my stomach.  I feel very sorry for Josh and Anna and his victims. He was 14 - a young teenage boy. Sure what he did was offensive, however I blame the parents. Here is a young boy - hormones raging and they have no outlet - no sports to compete in, no friends outside the family to hang out with and no other adults who are in in their lives to talk stuff out with. It's a family that once the kids are finished being babies they are passed around to the others to raise. The fault for this lays at the feet of the parents. I'm a Christian and I don't believe we should bash each other. The girls, and Josh and Anna are reliving a nightmare because of poor choices Jim Bob and Michelle have made. I wish Josh and Anna nothing but the best. They and his victims are the ones who need our prayers right now.

[Happyfatchick]

I'm paraphrasing instead of copying, but Anna said "he told both me and my parents 2 years before we were married... and I wondered why he was telling me this..." Really? Wish I'd been a fly on the wall for THAT. Conjecture is that her dad, at least, already knew. Was Anna so naive/protected from the outside world that she looked at him with those gooey eyes and SERIOUSLY wondered why he was telling her he touched his sisters inappropriately??? What???

Somebody tell me, exactly what IS FAmily Research Council? What do they DO? Is it a lobbying org? And isn't the very NAME sort of ironic now? Also, someone was speculating on the damage control JB and Michelle were likely doing tonight. Why? They don't have any media access. I mean, the big kids who work "out" would know about the landslide, but the kids inside that house should be clueless is the Duggar machine is in running condition. Wonder what's the subject for Bible time tonight?

I am mesmerized and stuck to this forum, completely sucked in. I'm absolutely amazed this didn't blow sky high before now. I went back and read the forum from 2007. Alice is kinda scary!!!

Next we'll start seeing paparazzi shots of them sneaking thru an airport with huge sunglasses and fake hair. He is so screwed. I've seen Mama June mentioned more than once today. She lives not so far from me. I think we can safely assume mine is not a notably upscale neighborhood...

Edited May 22, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[starlightlost]

Interesting, this forum back in 2007 was talking about Josh molesting his sisters.

http://bitterjealousfatties.yuku.com/topic/964/Josh-Duggar-Molested-Sisters

Wowza! They are saying almost the same things we are saying now in 2015. So weird this wasn't found before.

[RazzleberryPie]

Yeah, agreed. I'd like to know exactly what he told them. He may have downplayed it a lot. I can't see starry-eyed, young, naive Anna being okay with it on one hand, but on the other hand she was also in love with her first-ever boyfriend, probably convinced he could do no wrong. In that case, her parents should have put the kibosh on the courtship, as they should have had clearer heads than their teenage daughter.

 

Remember how we all thought Anna made the best marriage of the Keller girls? Guess ol' TFDW takes the top spot now.

Wow. Sad that it's under these circumstances, but that TFDW statement wins the internet tonight.

 

Anna was/is naive and lovestruck. I think she honestly, wholeheartedly, truly believed that Josh had confessed and repented of his sins, and that the Lord had delivered him from his 'mistakes' and so she married him. I'm actually sad for her, because she absolutely under no circumstances will leave him, Ever. Besides having no means to support her four children without him (Gothard purposes for women to be 100% dependent on their spouses so they never have a choice of leaving), besides, she's going to forgive him and stick by him. She has no other identity besides Josh's wife first, and then a mom. They prioritize marriage over every other relationship, not matter what the situation, so Anna ain't goin' nowheres.

[Growsonwalls]

I hope people don't judge Anna if she doesn't leave. Anna has four young children with this man. She doesn't have the resources to live on her own, and she's been raised to believe marriage is the most holy of sacraments and to "stay sweet" for her husband no matter what. The only way I see her leaving is if her family steps in and drags her away from the Duggars forever, but the Gothard social circle is so fucked up I don't know if that will happen. In fact, if Anna's family does step in and drags her away, I can see the Gothard social circle shunning them for homewrecking and for upsetting that tight little family of Jesus freaks.

[Wellfleet]

I'm super pissed for the victims of course.  But outside of that, I'm really just so pissed that Josh and the FRC can act like god will just forgive everything he does and yet the gays are the evil, unforgiveable ones who are somehow so super bad for children.  

 

100% agree. FRC will have a new bumper sticker now - Straight Perverts Are Still Better Than Gay Perverts.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Wellfleet

[JoanArc]

 

Child Protective Services could still take action

I hope so. Hopefully all the publicity can land a good shrink right in the middle of this screwed up family.

[BitterApple]

radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Expungement-signed.pdf

Free jinger thinks joy may have been the one to sign for the uncensored report to be destroyed

I reread the police report and one of the older girls was not molested. I'm guessing Jill or Jana managed to avoid the abuse. Unfortunately that means Joy was likely abused since the report cites four victims living with their parents, JimBob and Michelle Duggar.

[CofCinci]

Wowza! They are saying almost the same things we are saying now in 2015. So weird this wasn't found before.

Open discussion 8 years ago? TLC definitely knew.

[mynextmistake]

I am just sick to my stomach.  I feel very sorry for Josh and Anna and his victims. He was 14 - a young teenage boy. Sure what he did was offensive, however I blame the parents. Here is a young boy - hormones raging and they have no outlet - no sports to compete in, no friends outside the family to hang out with and no other adults who are in in their lives to talk stuff out with. It's a family that once the kids are finished being babies they are passed around to the others to raise. The fault for this lays at the feet of the parents. I'm a Christian and I don't believe we should bash each other. The girls, and Josh and Anna are reliving a nightmare because of poor choices Jim Bob and Michelle have made. I wish Josh and Anna nothing but the best. They and his victims are the ones who need our prayers right now.

This is really offensive to me. I can see having sympathy for Anna, and certainly for the victims. But Josh did something terrible, and deserves to pay the consequences. We aren't talking about a situation where a naive kid played doctor with a slightly younger girl. Josh abused five girls, at least one of whom was apparently significantly younger than he was, over the course of months and at 14 was certainly old enough to know that doing that was not okay regardless of how messed up his family background may have been.

[dillpickles]

I reread the police report and one of the older girls was not molested. I'm guessing Jill or Jana managed to avoid the abuse. Unfortunately that means Joy was likely abused since the report cites four victims living with their parents, JimBob and Michelle Duggar.

The reports did say one of them sat on his lap, and joy would be young enough for that at the time. God, this is really horrible. I honestly want to reach out to the girls and say "It wasn't your fault" since i doubt anyone has told them that.

Edited May 22, 2015 by dillpickles

[ginger90]

Here's part of the  FRC beliefs: FRC believes the context for the full expression of human sexuality is within the bonds of marriage between one man and one woman. Upholding this standard of sexual behavior would help to reverse many of the destructive aspects of the sexual revolution, including sexually transmitted disease rates of epidemic proportion, high out-of-wedlock birth rates, adultery, and homosexuality.

 

FRC issued a statement basically stating it's best for Josh and his family that he resigned. They also said this was "unknown information". Here's an article: http://www.towleroad.com/2015/05/josh-duggar-resigns-from-anti-gay-hate-group-issues-apology-in-wake-of-molestation-allegations-.html

[Pete Martell]

Somebody tell me, exactly what IS FAmily Research Council? What do they DO? Is it a lobbying org? And isn't the very NAME sort of ironic now? 

 

They fight for "family" rights, which apparently means lgbt people being arrested or sentenced to death.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council

[kandinski]

I can imagine The duggars do a "Carrie" with the kids,make them go in the prayer closet under the stairs.

[Wellfleet]

There have been rumours about Josh Duggar for years suggesting that he had abused at least one of his sisters. TLC had to know about these awful details. The Learning Channel perpetuated the ridiculous Duggar illusion, and made a fortune off a family they knew were hiding a horrible secret. Given the time frame when the now admitted abuse happened, it's not difficult to deduce which sister/sisters were victimised. I hope TLC cancels the show and provides counselling and financial compensation for the Duggar girls whose dignity and well-being were sacrificed by a television network that cared only about ratings.

 

Don't these networks who run reality programming vet any of the people that appear - or even want to appear? Good grief - TLC management is showing themselves to be every bit as competent and professional as the so-called creative & producing staff - at least on 19K&C. Not very...

[truthtalk2014]

I am just sick to my stomach.  I feel very sorry for Josh and Anna and his victims. He was 14 - a young teenage boy. Sure what he did was offensive, however I blame the parents. Here is a young boy - hormones raging and they have no outlet - no sports to compete in, no friends outside the family to hang out with and no other adults who are in in their lives to talk stuff out with.

 

 

 

It's a family that once the kids are finished being babies they are passed around to the others to raise. The fault for this lays at the feet of the parents. I'm a Christian and I don't believe we should bash each other.

 

The girls, and Josh and Anna are reliving a nightmare because of poor choices Jim Bob and Michelle have made. I wish Josh and Anna nothing but the best. They and his victims are the ones who need our prayers right now.

Sure, what Ted Bundy did was offensive but I blame his parents.

 

The parents are a joke and should not be called parents and they should indeed be bashed.

 

I wish Anna and the M train nothing but the best.  Josh can get run over by a herd of stray cats and dogs that have been neglected by the Duggars forever.

[Wellfleet]

There have been rumours about Josh Duggar for years suggesting that he had abused at least one of his sisters. TLC had to know about these awful details. The Learning Channel perpetuated the ridiculous Duggar illusion, and made a fortune off a family they knew were hiding a horrible secret. Given the time frame when the now admitted abuse happened, it's not difficult to deduce which sister/sisters were victimised. I hope TLC cancels the show and provides counselling and financial compensation for the Duggar girls whose dignity and well-being were sacrificed by a television network that cared only about ratings.

 

Don't these networks who run reality programming vet any of the people that appear - or even want to appear? Good grief - TLC management is showing themselves to be every bit as competent and professional as the so-called creative & producing staff - at least on 19K&C. Not very...

[JoanArc]

I think this kind of explains the weight gain too. If(IF) TLC knew he might have had the sword of Damocles hanging over his head for almost a decade. No wonder he turned to food for comfort, knowing it might all crash at any moment.

 

 

Josh can get run over by a herd of stray cats and dogs that have been neglected by the Duggars forever.

The report does mention Jazmine the dog and 2 cats, with 4 kittens. More neglected animals.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JoanArc

[drafan]

 He was 14 - a young teenage boy.

I think he is 27 now...so that makes him 15....one year makes a big difference at that age.

 

Wasn't there some scuttlebutt about "sin in the camp" years ago? Like they found him touching some girl at one of those convention-things they all go to? So they sent him off to one of those 'camps', he disappeared from the show for awhile, then came back with a shaved head? Or am I dreaming?

 

That would explain why JB went on a hunt for a wife for him...he probably confessed that he was horny, so JB figured he would solve that problem ASAP.

[neural-plasticity]

The police reports mention several separate incidents taking place months and months apart, meaning it was well over a year. This seems to have been taken from Jim Bob's statement to the police. It appears Jim Bob and Michelle did not seek counseling for Josh until after it happened repeatedly. No mention of any counseling or treatment for the girls as victims of abuse.

Jim Bob and Michelle didn't seek counseling for josh AT ALL. Their "therapy" for him was making him go build a building with a "kind of" mentor, as Michelle claims in the police report.

Honestly, I know everyone is worried about the other children if the show is canceled, but they have been on TV since they've had 14 kids and not ONE child has been "saved." unfortunately, I can't imagine any would be "saved" if they stayed on television either.

I think it would make sense that Joy was one of the sisters who was a victim. one of the victims interviewed called the penis and vagina something along the lines of "pee pee holder," IIRC. That would make sense for someone her age at the time. The Alice statement is eerily accurate.

[3girlsforus]

Interesting thing was pointed out on another board I am reading about this. If it's been mentioned I'm sorry but I can't keep up. 

 

In Josh's statement today he says I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining my life.'. It's still about him and ruining HIS life. What about the lives of his sisters? 

[fliptopbox]

I don't really understand how they knew this info was going to become public. Who brought it to light? Either way it's still horrible, but how did they know Josh was going to be exposed beforehand?

[CofCinci]

Clarify this for me if I'm wrong -- Jim Bob did try to report the crimes but they happened to get police officer who was secretly downloading child porn. This officer then let Joshua go with a warning.... The family then moves on and one of the victims writes a letter and hides it. The letter was found in a book over 3 years later and by the time the new investigation started, the statute of limitations had expired and nothing could be done?

Edited May 22, 2015 by CofCinci

[pinkelephant3]

If Anna leaves josh he will likely get unsupervised visitation rights of not full custody. It's unfortunately better if she doesn't leave.

[Lillybee]

The police report stated that both lawyers that JB and Michelle contacted to represent them declined.

 

Has anyone figured out who the 61 year old is yet?

 

 

Grandma, she would have been about 61 at the time and at least we now know why she took over laundry duty since the laundry room was the only place a J'slave could be alone.

[3girlsforus]

If Anna leaves josh he will likely get unsupervised visitation rights of not full custody. It's unfortunately better if she doesn't leave.

 

I'm not sure why you assume Josh would get the kids. 

[mynextmistake]

If Anna leaves josh he will likely get unsupervised visitation rights of not full custody. It's unfortunately better if she doesn't leave.

Unsupervised visitation, possibly. There's not a chance in hell he'd get full custody with an admitted history of child sexual abuse. No judge in the world is going to sign up for that kind of bad publicity.

[3 is enough]

I can't believe how upset I am about people I don't even know.  I have a sick feeling in my stomach.  As much as I disliked the way Jim Bob and Michelle parent their kids, I never expected it to be this bad.  Not just covering up for Josh, but beating the kids with metal rods?

 

I can't believe their hypocrisy and naivete.  How dare they protest stores selling liquor and transgender people using restrooms while they have all these skeletons in their closets?  Did they really believe that no one would ever find out?  And I can't even begin to express my feelings about how they treated the girls.  These people are absolutely VILE.

 

Josh probably is a suicide risk right now.  He will never get another job that pays anywhere close to what he made at the FRC.  He is an uneducated disgraced reality personality who will carry the stigma of incest and sexual abuse for the rest of his life.  How can he support Anna and the kids?  And no way she knew the whole story before she married him.

 

While I do hope Jim Bob and Michelle lose the show and all of their speaking engagements, the ones who will suffer will be the kids.  They never asked for any of this.  Will Jana, Jinger, and Joy be able to find husbands now? (assuming that's what they want, of course)  The howlers and lost girls are already neglected and woefully under educated.  If they disappear from public view will anything change?  Or will it just get worse?

 

This whole situation is just tragic.

Edited May 22, 2015 by 3 is enough

[mynextmistake]

Clarify this for me if I'm wrong -- Jim Bob did try to report the crimes but they happened to get police officer who was secretly downloading child porn. This officer then let Joshua go with a warning.... The family then moves on and one of the victims writes a letter and hides it. The letter was found in a book over 3 years later and by the time the new investigation started, the statute of limitations had expired and nothing could be done?

My understanding is that the trooper was a friend, and that Jim Bob's "report" was not an official report but a request that he talk to Josh. If Jim Bob had wanted to report this offically to the police, it would have been handled much differently.

[BitterApple]

I don't see Anna leaving Josh. Where would she go? Back to her parents double wide with four kids?

Somehow I think the Duggars were tipped off that the lid was about to blow on this story. There was just way too much tension during that interview for them not to have known. It explains why Jill was so "off" and could barely focus on her newborn son along with why Jessa, Jinger and Jana were shooting daggers at Josh at several points in the interview.

[kandinski]

If most of us are honest we knew something was up with family,I mean anyone can feel the bad vibes.

 

Most of what has been discussed on here seems to be true.

 

Flowers in the Attic type lust/temptaion/guilt

A mother who checked out of planet normal years ago/everyone just smiles and humours her

Unbathed children,and thats for starters.

[dorcastrilling]

Interesting, this forum back in 2007 was talking about Josh molesting his sisters.

http://bitterjealous...olested-Sisters

 

Sorry for not citing, and sorry again if this has been said already, my tablet battery is dying fast....but if it is true that Jana was never touched, could it be survivor;s guilt that is keeping her there? She could not save the others, but come hell or high water no one will ever lay a hand on the littles?

 

Also, again if it was all true, Mary involved in pimping out the kids? Gawd.

[ChicksDigScars]

They had better not refer to Jill as "the Snitch" ever again. Now we know that one older daughter avoided the abuse. My suspicions are that it was Jill, not Jana,  She would be the one to run to their parents and maybe that's exactly what she did. If that's the case, she should be commended for doing it, not labeled in a derogatory, sarcastic or teasing fashion.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[StaceyNotStacie]

I don't see Anna leaving Josh. Where would she go? Back to her parents double wide with four kids?

 

If they are supportive of Anna and the children, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for Anna to spend some time with her parents, away from Jim Bob, Michelle and Josh trying to talk her into staying so that the family doesn't suffer any more bad publicity.

 

ABC News has picked up on this story.  I wouldn't be surprised to see it on GMA tomorrow morning.

[kstar821]

I am so sad to hear about this whole situation.  I do agree with the posters who put a majority of the blame on JB and Michelle.  What Josh did was completely wrong and inexcusable but, I wonder if this would have turned out much differently if he'd been in a regular home going to school and hanging out with friends? 

 

And....I hope CPS does step in for the under 18 crowd.  I've never thought that JB and Michelle were stellar parents.  And I'd gladly open my home to James (my favorite) and Jenni.  Send them on up to Philly where they can go to public school, hang with friends, and go to a regular church on Sundays. My two daughters would welcome them!

Edited May 22, 2015 by kstar821

[humbleopinion]

Curious how TLC will respond to this scandal.

Honey Boo Boo and now the Duggars linked by child molestation.

Hope the state of Arkansas will investigate to how this got swept under the rug.

 

 

Cake Boss Buddy Valastro's brother in law Remy Gonzolez was sent to prison for 9 years for molestation of a 13 year old and other minors.

You saw him on the show as a cake decorator before he was sent to the big house.

 

So I wouldn't be suprised if Josh is still on the show if it doesn't get yanked by TLC.

Edited May 22, 2015 by humbleopinion

[BitterApple]

They had better not refer to Jill as "the Snitch" ever again. Now we know that one older daughter avoided the abuse. My suspicions are that it was Jill, not Jana, She would be the one to run to their parents and maybe that's exactly what she did. If that's the case, she should be commended for doing it, not labeled in a derogatory, sarcastic or teasing fashion.

That makes the most sense. The interviews were conducted nearly four years after the incidents so Jana and Jill were what, 15 and 14 respectively? Either one could have told the investigators she was studying for a GED since they were both high school aged.

[frenchtoast]

There is a difference between sexual abuse and pedophilia. Molest: to harm (someone) through sexual contact : to touch (someone) in a sexual and improper way. Pedophilia: sexual feelings or activities that involve children. It may be semantics, but it matters. He allegedly sexually abused his sisters, it doesn't make him a pedophile.  

 

This is a volatile topic and we need you all to be very respectful of your fellow posters. Do not say, "I can't believe you said that! That's disgusting!" "You need to get your head fixed!" "Maybe you should watch a different show." Do not lecture or attack your fellow posters for their opinions. Also, let's not bring other forums/Facebook/Duggar fan reactions into this. It will just make everything unnecessarily ugly. 

Also realize the conversation can have lulls and times where there isn't much to talk about it. And that's ok, too. 

[Guest]

Wowza! They are saying almost the same things we are saying now in 2015. So weird this wasn't found before.

I'm pretty sure that information made its way to the TWoP forums way back then and the mods banned everyone from discussing it there.

I really hope TLC jets this show straight to hell, but I doubt it. JimBoob and Michelle are gonna whitewash this with "God's forgiveness and our family love is strong" blah blah blah.

[doodlebug]

 

My understanding is that the trooper was a friend, and that Jim Bob's "report" was not an official report but a request that he talk to Josh.

Yep, Jim Bob knew the trooper because he had some dealings with him at the car lot or something.  There was no formal police report filed, no mandatory reporting to Children's Services or anything else, it seems.  Once again, not from Arkansas, but police officers, like schoolteachers, doctors and nurses are 'mandated reporters' when it comes to child abuse.  That means the minute Jim Bob told him what happened, the trooper was legally obligated to notify authorities.  If he wasn't already serving 50+ years for child porn, he'd be out of a job and on his way to jail.  Having seen Jim Bob in action, I suspect he made sure this guy wasn't going to file charges or otherwise upset the apple cart before he ever spoke to him.  I presume JB only told the story later in order to make himself look like he'd actually done something about his son's behavior when all he really did was cover it up.

 

Years ago, a patient of mine told one of the nurses in my office that she was under a lot of stress at home.  When the nurse questioned her, she said she'd found her 12 year old son touching the neighbor's 3 year old daughter in their garage.  She hadn't done anything other than tell her son to stop and she took the little one home.  My nurse rightly told her that it was out of her hands, that both for the little girl's sake as well as her son's; Children's Services was going to get a call.  The patient got irate, even angry about it.  Didn't matter, it's the law.  We made the call immediately.  I don't know the outcome, of course, because it involved children.

[dillpickles]

They had better not refer to Jill as "the Snitch" ever again. Now we know that one older daughter avoided the abuse. My suspicions are that it was Jill, not Jana, She would be the one to run to their parents and maybe that's exactly what she did. If that's the case, she should be commended for doing it, not labeled in a derogatory, sarcastic or teasing fashion.

I want to personally apologize for snarking on Jill in that regard, actually.

[Brooklynista]

I wonder if there will be an apology/redemption tour starting with the Today Show?

[dillpickles]

Cancelling the show has nothing to do with victim shaming ( I'm sure thats been going on for years) bu about shaming Jb and Meeshelle.

Yes, but it would/can be interpreted as such in the Duggar compound. These people think that women are to blame for men getting horny outside of marriage, so i wouldn't put it past them.

[VioletNevermind]

Hours after this stuff came to light, I'm still waiting for Josh, his dumbass parents, or SOMEONE to acknowledge the girls' pain and the long-term impact the abuse has had on them. Pardon me, but I don't give two shits about the godly, righteous man Josh says he's become (ha). I care about the emotional and psychological struggles those girls have had all these years, especially Jana who has been forced to stay overnight at Josh's house while babysitting the kids in DC. There isn't a locking doorknob on the market that would have made me feel comfortable with that.

I keep wondering if Anna will divorce Josh. My money is on NOPE. I was raised in a mid-level fundie environment, which has fed my morbid interest in the show from the beginning. Women in my church were taught to look up to their men as the all-knowing headship of their households. Basically, what he says goes because he knows best in all things. Anna has obviously chugged the Koolaid. She's boxed into a corner by four kids, zero job skills or education, and an equally uneducated, unskilled, newly jobless husband. She'll stay and she'll continue to support him as she has all of these years because he and this life are all she knows.

As for Anna knowing about this before she married Josh, then going on to have children with him, I am beyond disgusted. WTF, girlfriend?!

Edited May 22, 2015 by SuzyLee

[irisheyes]

I think we'll hear nothing but crickets for the entire summer. They'll hope this will all blow over.

[MichaelaRae]

Oh, look, Josh is alive. They're replaying the "Digging In with the Duggars" episode now.

[Darknight]

You know what's even sadder if it weren't for Harpo calling the authorities then JB would've never took Josh to the police. For three years he ignored it