Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Rabbittron]

Reddit DuggarsSnark has some great information from a person who was in the zoom meeting. Anna sees only what she wants to see. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Rabbittron

[Whyyouneedaname]

Just now, Rabbittron said:

Reddit DuggarsSnark has some great information from a person who was in the zoom meeting. 

yes and I actually read more than I should :( 

[emmawoodhouse]

18 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know if this has been mentioned because only skimming posts, I'm trying not to read about any charges. So please forgive me if it has.

From Yahoo:

"Faulkner also said Duggar had a program on his computer called "Covenant Eyes," which the agent described as "accountability software" that monitors and reports objectionable internet use to a partner and is meant to help people with porn addictions. According to Faulkner, the program was registered to Duggar and would send reports to his wife, Anna."

Was CP found on his phone? Did Anna know about this all along?

The Tor would over ride Covenant Eyes. 

[Tdoc72]

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know if this has been mentioned because only skimming posts, I'm trying not to read about any charges. So please forgive me if it has.

From Yahoo:

"Faulkner also said Duggar had a program on his computer called "Covenant Eyes," which the agent described as "accountability software" that monitors and reports objectionable internet use to a partner and is meant to help people with porn addictions. According to Faulkner, the program was registered to Duggar and would send reports to his wife, Anna."

Was CP found on his phone? Did Anna know about this all along?

Agent testified (according to the person on Reddit) that the computer was divided. So the Covenant Eyes program would send a report to Anna but the bad stuff was on the other half, hidden from CE. 
I really want to believe that Anna had no idea this was going on. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Tdoc72

[Clawdel]

This bail hearing is taking forever. What the eff is going on?!

[Lady Whistleup]

Just a warning: do not click on the "first witness" post at reddit if this will trigger you. The testimony is EXTREMELY graphic and upsetting.

[Whyyouneedaname]

Just now, Lady Whistleup said:

Just a warning: do not click on the "first witness" post at reddit if this will trigger you. The testimony is EXTREMELY graphic and upsetting.

I can't imagine Jill sitting through that....

[Tikichick]

29 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

What message is he trying to give with this behavior?  A truly innocent man set up by the "ex con" would be absolutely horrified by these accusations and terrified of the possible consequences.  You'd think his lawyers would have told him how to act in front of people who are not part of the Duggar cult,

For me logic says if federal agents show up and your first question is about child sexually abusive material on your computer you have some basis or expectation that type of material is associated with your computer.   If you know you haven't engaged in anything like that yet you have enough reason to hone in on that specific suspicion you know that your computer has been used criminally.  Wouldn't you contact law enforcement, tell them what you've uncovered and inform them about your employee/former employee immediately?  I'll grant you it would probably be a gut check to make the call and hope you don't put yourself under the microscope, but if you're an innocent human being who repudiates children being abused (which one would assume a father of seven should) don't you act with the courage of your convictions?     

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Just a warning: do not click on the "first witness" post at reddit if this will trigger you. The testimony is EXTREMELY graphic and upsetting.

The older kids need to hear this, they need to know the truth and not what JB tells them. 

[Pingaponga]

I'm confused. Do they go through all the evidence at the bond hearing, as justification for the amount of a bond and any conditions placed on the defendant?  And then again at the actual trial?

[cereality]

1 minute ago, Clawdel said:

This bail hearing is taking forever. What the eff is going on?!

Late start and/or lots of testimony esp from the gov't re the specifics of what Josh was doing -- probably to make the point that it's not that easy to just have him out and under the supervision of family members or cult members bc he finds ways to do what he wants -- i.e. having programs on his computer to evade his wife's "watchful eye." Longer this goes the more likely he's denied bond or the bond price goes up a lot. We're at 3+ hrs now and nearing 5 pm Arkansas time. I imagine the court wants to start wrapping this up -- as much as judges say sure we'll sit as long as we need to, they ALWAYS want to be done by 5-530.

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Just a warning: do not click on the "first witness" post at reddit if this will trigger you. The testimony is EXTREMELY graphic and upsetting.

Yeah, I just got done reading the testimony. It's sick, but it also explains a lot about how the workaround operates so Covenant Eyes isn't triggered.

2 minutes ago, Whyyouneedaname said:

I can't imagine Jill sitting through that....

Jill is apparently present via Zoom. 

[Pingaponga]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

it also explains a lot about how the workaround operates so Covenant Eyes isn't triggered.

Which indicates that there was no "accidental" viewing of the images.

How does anyone even figure out how to do a workaround for something? I have enough trouble remembering how to power on/off my iPhone.

[cereality]

IDK if it's accurate but someone reddit is saying there is a John (no last name) present at the hearing as well. Wonder if that's JD wanting to hear for himself what Josh did -- not just whatever JB is going to tell the kids.

[Churchhoney]

Updated Gothard umbrella system, per Reddit

 

[crazy8s]

this is interesting from the first prosecution witness

"Approximately 200 images of CP were located on the desktop in unallocated space, which means someone tried to delete them."

also he backed up the Macbook to his phone

[Lady Whistleup]

Oh Smuggar, so dumb. Never change.

[Boston]

20 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

We really don't know yet (as of 4:25 PM Central Time). The judge issued an order that nobody was to post on social media until the hearing is over. The Sun has run a story supposedly quoting some testimony. They may be correct. Or not. The NW Arkansas reporter I'm following on this, thanks to a tip from @Zella, has as of this minute not posted anything from the hearing which was supposed to start about 3 hours ago. It's Garrett Fergeson, @Garrett_photo on Twitter.

ETA: TMZ just posted a story that claims a Federal agent testified that there were 200 images on Josh's computer with children as young as 5. Not the same numbers and ages claimed in The Sun's online story from earlier this afternoon. I'm skeptical of all these early reports and I won't waste a single brain cell on whatever ignorant hash the twit at WOACB makes of it all on her YT channel. I'll wait for the end of the hearing to get the actual news.

Thank you.. Lord, I will keep checking.  After the nap I need a pre-dinner drink.

[IndianPaintbrush]

In layman's terms, Josh installed something that divided the computer's hard drive into two isolated sections. He did all his CP stuff on the side that Covenant Eyes could not detect.

He may have been tech-savvy enough to fool his wife, but not the feds. They have timestamps for all of this.

[GeeGolly]

This is one long ass bond hearing.

[Lurk]

27 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Or did Josh using the TOR workaround mean that she couldn’t see what he was doing?

Anna would never see anything he was doing because whenever he is around her, she is gazing up at him adoringly like there is nothing else in the room/world.

[Clawdel]

A law student on Reddit who is watching the hearing on Zoom is sharing the details. For the love of God DON'T read the redacted parts. They are still with the first witness from Homeland Security. The most infuriating points are:

Quote

Duggar said he owned his phone but other family members could have access to it.

Duggar declined to provide the password to the desktop or the phone to law enforcement.

Duggar said that he owned the Macbook but that other family members had access to it.

So yeah, he's trying to implicate his younger brothers, the reprobate.

 

[Arkay]

I'm baffled by so much of this. How can one individual be savvy enough to divide internet stuff so that it’s hidden from someone who is supposed to be overseeing him, and yet use his birth year as a password? On not just his disgusting stuff but his bank accounts? 

If in any universe, the Feds showed up at my house with a warrant to search my IPhone and my ancient IPad (my only devices), I would literally not know what to think. I certainly wouldn’t say “oh hey, howdy, officers, are you here to ask about child sexual abuse on my computer?” That absolutely seems to be a preemptive strike, gearing up for an excuse when they find it.

 

[libgirl2]

Just now, Clawdel said:

A law student on Reddit who is watching the hearing on Zoom is sharing the details. For the love of God DON'T read the redacted parts. They are still with the first witness from Homeland Security. The most infuriating points are:

So yeah, he's trying to implicate his younger brothers, the reprobate.

 

As I said, I hope his brothers are watching and see what he is doing to them! 

[Tikichick]

3 minutes ago, cereality said:

IDK if it's accurate but someone reddit is saying there is a John (no last name) present at the hearing as well. Wonder if that's JD wanting to hear for himself what Josh did -- not just whatever JB is going to tell the kids.

It is possible, but hard to say, especially knowing that media is also sitting in.   With hearings conducted by Zoom as the new norm it's a whole thing getting a hearing rolling these days.   There's like a whole Who's on First routine prior to the start of a lot of hearings now, so that the court and staff have an understanding of who's who before they call the case and ask for appearances. 

You wind up hearing, who's here on John's iPhone?  I see a John's iPhone listed, who is that?   Then some attorneys are in on devices that show up with the name of their firm, not the attorney's name.    

Another thing that might put this hearing on the struggle bus is a large number of people on the Zoom.   The larger they are the glitchier they get, the bigger the audio delays and the more you have people unintentionally talking over each other.    Something else that could be problematic in this case is you have an awful lot of family members likely to sit in.   If they're using phones they might each want to use their own, but not realize that two participants in the same room or too close of proximity cause feedback -- even if they're just sitting there as observers.  I would not even be a little surprised  to find that this hearing did not fit on a single Zoom page.   

[Lurk]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

This is one long ass bond hearing.

Story popped up top of the page on TMZ around 4:30pm CDT. Judge hasn't ruled yet on bond. Sounds like it may take a while.

To be continued..... as they say on TV.

[crazy8s]

reddit has the 1st and second prosecution witness recap

anyone heard of Lacount Reber pastor and jail ministries person? that is the proposed 3rd party the defense is offering to be responsible for Josh

Edited May 6, 2021 by crazy8s
corrected name from Reaver to Reber

[wait.what]

Earlier posters were saying they thought Jana would be forced to be the “3rd party custodian.”

How evil...forcing someone to facilitate the release of the person who molested your sisters. 
 

The judge could not allow that could she? I know josh was never convicted, but the whole family including the victims talked openly about it on national TV. 

[cereality]

If this doesn't wrap up soon, it's not wrapping up today; the judge will give them a date to come back and continue and Josh will return to prison until then.

[MargeGunderson]

So Ms Reaver is concerned about being left alone with Josh, but they are willing to be his hosts? WTF? Also, kids in the residence for piano lessons should be a giant red flag. Surprised that none of the non-married adults volunteered for Josh duty.

[CouchTater]

This line from the Reddit recap of the first witness made me giggle a little.  I think I was desperately looking for any reason not to wallow in sadness reading that darn thing.  The funny:

"Two buildings, a shed undergoing remodel and a metal building the size of a toll booth which they found out was the main office."  😃

Would you spend your hard-earned money at a shady and shoddy operation like that???

[IndianPaintbrush]

Mrs. Reaver sounds like a typical fundie wife to me, deferring to her husband. No WAY should she agree to this if there's a chance she'll be left alone with Josh.

Edited May 5, 2021 by IndianPaintbrush

[Lady Whistleup]

Mrs. Reaver sounds like she does not actually want Josh in her home. Understandable.

[Pingaponga]

3 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Ms Reaver is concerned about being left alone with Josh, but they are willing to be his hosts

This to me should be enough for the judge to decide they can not be his hosts. Clearly she is being pushed to accept this by her husband.

[Snow Fairy]

Could Josh have also been molested as a kid? And by who? 

It just does not seem it all came out of curiosity, as they said when the first scandal broke

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, wait.what said:

Earlier posters were saying they thought Jana would be forced to be the “3rd party custodian.”

How evil...forcing someone to facilitate the release of the person who molested your sisters. 
 

The judge could not allow that could she? I know josh was never convicted, but the whole family including the victims talked openly about it on national TV. 

No. I think we were just being snarky (at least I was) about the custodians that JIm Bob and Michelle would start by recommending ... Anna ... Jana ... Jed! .... Jer....

It wouldn't surprise me if that's who JB and M did start by recommending. But obviously those are a no go. 

They seem to have no other alternatives, though, which is probably no surprise...

[Oldernowiser]

Here’s hoping that hearing Josh trying to throw his family under the bus while JB is funding this fucked-up rodeo is the bucket of ice water wakeup call his siblings need to finally GTFO of this cesspool of a family.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Oldernowiser

[MargeGunderson]

Just now, Pingaponga said:

This to me should be enough for the judge to decide they can not be his hosts. Clearly she is being pushed to accept this by her husband.

Right?! She’s scared to be at home with him alone, and she’s going to be responsible for him? Sounds unacceptable as a third party to me.

[coconspirator]

The music lessons should make this couple inappropriate 3rd party guardians.  JB must be desperate to find someone, anyone, to take Josh.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, MargeGunderson said:

Right?! She’s scared to be at home with him alone, and she’s going to be responsible for him? Sounds unacceptable as a third party to me.

And JB & M are assholes for asking them.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Could Josh have also been molested as a kid? And by who? 

It just does not seem it all came out of curiosity, as they said when the first scandal broke

I do wonder about that

[BitterApple]

Wow, real nice of Josh to throw his brothers under the bus by telling the agent they had access to his phone and computer.

Ms. Reaver clearly doesn't want Josh in her home. I'm guessing Mr. Reaver is a Boob sycophant.

[crazy8s]

also they have 6 firearms and the bedroom he would have has an outdoor exit.......

from the cross exam 2nd witness recap

CX: Probation Officer Nguyen

Reavers have no criminal history

No minors reside at the Reaver home

Reavers said they would do whatever they needed to do to be Josh’s third-party custodians

“If the firearms were removed from the home and if the piano lessons cease, would that be a suitable third party residence?” “Quite possibly.” -Justin Gelfand looks forlorn-

In the 17 months Josh has been aware of the investigation, Josh has not left the country.

[Oldernowiser]

Just now, MargeGunderson said:

Right?! She’s scared to be at home with him alone, and she’s going to be responsible for him? Sounds unacceptable as a third party to me.

Think she’s going to call the authorities on him when he inevitably does whatever he wants? Nope.

[cmr2014]

Here's a disadvantage of have no friends. -- although this would be a big ask of any friend.

These people barely seem to know JB and J'chelle, but have been pressed into service as "good Christians."

They obviously didn't vet them at all -- we got more info on this board about the requirements for hosting him than they did. There are unsecured guns in the house; minors visit regularly; and Mrs. XXX doesn't want to be left alone with Josh even though Mr. XXX works a full time job.

[cereality]

Damn Josh is about to stay in prison. The Reavers are not going to be accepted as a 3rd party custodian here -- the husband is out of the house all day with a full time job and the wife is scared to be home with Josh but she's going to supervise him and oh kids come in and out of that house for piano?? The judge was explicitly clear in the first hearing that any living situation had to be without kids present. This doesn't meet that criteria at all. Unless JB can pull another rabbit out of his hat, seems like  he's about to save bond money here. I'm guessing he tried to force this upon Jed and his new wife or Jer and both said no.

Edited May 5, 2021 by cereality

[CouchTater]

It's hilarious to me that the Reaver couple is the best they can come up with Josh's 3rd party overlords.  Speaks volumes.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

Good for Mrs. Reaver for stating clearly she is not comfortable with Josh in her home. 

[Lukeysboat]

7 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

 

Could Josh have also been molested as a kid? And by who? 

 

I have been wondering the same thing. 

[Churchhoney]

8 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Could Josh have also been molested as a kid? And by who? 

It just does not seem it all came out of curiosity, as they said when the first scandal broke

Well, "curiosity" was JB's and M's stinking lying word for it. But it looked to me a lot more like somebody who likes to be intrusive and aggressive toward people that he feels he can get the upper hand with. Power. Violence, Aggression. Meanness to people. Disconcerting them. That goes with his arrogant air -- "curiosity" doesn.t 

He clearly enjoyed fiddling with people who he at least believed didn't realize he was dong it -- that's power and abuse. (And he may even have enjoyed it more if he realized that the girls were just pretending to be asleep because they were totally freaked out by it but didn't know how to respond...)

And he loved stymying little ones who he knew were awake -- like Jinger and Joy -- because they couldn't easily physically escape him and because they'd been taught all their lives that he was one of the leaders of the family, holding the umbrella right under Meeechelle's and ready to step into an even higher spot he was male. He was the one who could order you to get him a soda right after, and you did. .... 

That was never "curiosity." It was violence and aggression and meanness in a sexual form. Wouldn't surprise me if he has another sexual-image interest besides young girls and it's just rape rape rape of all and sundry. Josh is the kind of person I can see really enjoying that. Because that's the kind of charge I think he got from aggressing toward the girls. 

But I don't think the question of whether something like that was going on was ever even raised....just like other relevant questions were almost certainly not raised, like of whether he was abused....And certainly no questions were ever really raised about how to actually help the girls.....

And AFTER all this happened, it ought at least to have been clear to JB and M that their family size and structure was simply out of control...They didn't know and couldn't manage what was going on in their home. And what did they do? They had MORE kids. Only two (maybe three) that followed any of this -- but that's just because biology stopped the train. They would have had as many as Meeeechelle could deliver. 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Churchhoney