Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Absolom]

26 minutes ago, Lurk said:

Isn't TTH their "c h u r c h"?

*using the word church loosely

They haven't had church in the house for years.  They attend an actual church.  

There isn't bail for this.  He has to post bond tomorrow.  It's a slightly different thing.

[Churchhoney]

15 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. I honestly think we're more educated on how these people operate than the courts. There's no way in hell Mrs. Reaver or Anna would report violations. Let's say Michelle stops by to visit her Golden Boy and she happens to have Josie in tow. Does anyone really think the Reavers will tell her she can't come in or call law enforcement? No freaking way. All information will end at Boob's doorstep.

The world does tend to accept Jim Bob and Meeechelle at their own valuation. And I put a lot of blame on TLC and its advertisers for that....

They proved in the last go-round that they'll lie and lie endlessly to keep their Christian famewhoring going and it worked. They slithered back on tv with little trouble, it seems. 

Hoping for a lot of tabloid stringers to be hanging around them now.  

[Soaper410]

I think other people have probably covered it but can't find actual posts about it. 

Federal court is either: release or not release. THERE IS TYPICALLY NOT BAIL OR BOND.  State court is where bonds come in.  3rd party custody is fairly regular with electronic monitoring. 

From what I've read the case is basically a slam dunk (welcome to federal court).  Assuming that the search warrant is held as valid, he's going to prison for a VERY LONG TIME. 

It will take a while for the AUSA to see if they can get up with the attorney for the children they are able to identify (lawyers represent the SA victims to get restitution).  

Edited May 6, 2021 by Soaper410

[lascuba]

I'm not at all surprised that Josh will be released. He's a white Christian male, after all. But no bail? NO BAIL?!

It's confirmed that the family knew about the investigation. So Anna got pregnant knowing Josh was being investigated and would likely be charged with possession of csa material. I've never had much sympathy for Anna but now? I hope her enabling ass nothing but misery.

[Tigregirl]

It just makes me ill that the crap he was downloading had children the same ages as his own daughters and very close to the ages of his youngest sisters.  He is a sick sick f%%k.  I wouldn’t blame any of the family for never wanting to see his fat smug face again.

[Lurk]

13 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

There’s no way Josh stays off the internet until July. None.

From your lips to the Feds' ears.

[libgirl2]

16 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

There’s no way Josh stays off the internet until July. None.

He will find a way and who will catch and tell? Anna? Hardly. This family he is staying with? I doubt it. 

[satrunrose]

Question for anyone with knowledge about this 3rd party custody business: What happens if tonight or at some point in the next while, Mrs Reaver realizes what she got herself signed up for (ie. the revelations about the details of the charges, or that you just know the smug perv will be laying around snapping his fingers for cokes) and decides she's done being a good little helpmeet. Do they find someone else? Does the sly one go to jail? Is she just stuck with him?

[farmgal4]

3 minutes ago, Tigregirl said:

It just makes me ill that the crap he was downloading had children the same ages as his own daughters and very close to the ages of his youngest sisters.  He is a sick sick f%%k.  I wouldn’t blame any of the family for never wanting to see his fat smug face again.

I believe that anyone who gets turned on by children is a psychopath.

[mynextmistake]

15 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I'm not at all surprised that Josh will be released. He's a white Christian male, after all. But no bail? NO BAIL?!

It's confirmed that the family knew about the investigation. So Anna got pregnant knowing Josh was being investigated and would likely be charged with possession of csa material. I've never had much sympathy for Anna but now? I hope her enabling ass nothing but misery.

As a Christian I try not to wish ill on anyone but I honestly hope she loses her kids. Until today I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but now I’m honestly not convinced those kids wouldn’t be better off with someone besides their ridiculously subservient trifling-ass enabling excuse for a mother. Maybe in foster care the girls would at least have a chance for a normal life, and the boys wouldn’t grow up thinking that women were put on earth only to serve them and their needs. 
 

HE HAD PICTURES OF TODDLERS. Toddlers. And Anna is standing by her man? I look forward to the In Touch photos of CPS ripping M7 from her arms right after delivery. I truly do. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by mynextmistake

[Clawdel]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

WOACB is live and confirms his release. She was on Zoom.

Until she was kicked out for violating the rules. If you want a professional to explain this shit show, go to Emily D. Baker, Crime Talk,  or 10 to Life. WOACB is a weasel. 

[mynextmistake]

3 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

Question for anyone with knowledge about this 3rd party custody business: What happens if tonight or at some point in the next while, Mrs Reaver realizes what she got herself signed up for (ie. the revelations about the details of the charges, or that you just know the smug perv will be laying around snapping his fingers for cokes) and decides she's done being a good little helpmeet. Do they find someone else? Does the sly one go to jail? Is she just stuck with him?

She could go to court and asked to be removed as a third-party. Josh will be remanded until his defense team proposed another third-party and that person got accepted.

[ginger90]

The couple Josh will be living with are the Rebers, not Reavers. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Reggie Miller tweeted about this:

 

[MMEButterfly]

1 hour ago, Annb67 said:

What the actual Fuck is this? The hell? So YOUR DAUGHTER AND WIFE don’t want this perv in your house, but to hell with them. Bring him in. Cook his meals. Bullshit! Fuck the Reavers and the Duggar’s. I would cook him something...

Is it typical for people who take in a person awaiting trial to get no remuneration for feeding and housing said person?

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

The couple Josh will be living with are the Rebers, not Reavers. 

Darn. 😁

[Tdoc72]

 

2 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Where are these references to an 18 month old coming from? 

@Gigi43–Sorry for wonky formatting. I can’t get the text out of this box. The 1st witness/Special Agent said whatever CP Josh download came from a much bigger file. It’s the one of the worst files he’s ever seen. The 18 mo old was in that file, but I don’t think it was what Josh downloaded. His was something else. 

2 hours ago, crazy8s said:

"Timeline in Exhibits 3 and 4 demonstrate that Josh was the one using the computer in May to download CP and throughout the day texting his family and using the computer for other uses"

I would sell my firstborn to see these two charts!  The Reddit person described one event as saying he texted something about being stuck at work, then 10 minutes later, CP was downloaded. 

[JoanArc]

5 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

The couple Josh will be living with are the Rebers, not Reavers. 

 Assuming I respect him enough to care. 

Quote

Hoping for a lot of tabloid stringers to be hanging around them now.  

 I really hope there is collateral damage -  an army of reporters digging into Jim Bob’s financing and history. A lot of his dirty doings seem to be common knowledge among the townsfolk. These latest revelations might be enough to loosen a few lips. 

[MsJamieDornan]

This is all ridiculous. 

[LexieLily]

28 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

There’s no way Josh stays off the internet until July. None.

What I wouldn't give if it was Jill who turned him in if and when this happens. She or Cousin Amy might be the only two with enough willpower to do it, or JD or Derrick.

[farmgal4]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Reggie Miller tweeted about this:

 

SIXTY-FIVE???!!!???  And he’s not in jail??!!

[crazy8s]

8 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

The couple Josh will be living with are the Rebers, not Reavers. 

I was just coming here to say that - the redditt recaper must have mis heard the name on the zoom hearing

 

[farmgal4]

5 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

 

I would sell my firstborn to see these two charts!  The Reddit person described one event as saying he texted something about being stuck at work, then 10 minutes later, CP was downloaded. 

He’s a sick, twisted POS.

[ginger90]

3 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Assuming I respect him enough to care. 

Pardon?

[Jeeves]

9 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

The couple Josh will be living with are the Rebers, not Reavers. 

Thanks. I will have to go clean up my prior posts. I picked up the spelling from reddit. Oops.

[Tdoc72]

Just now, crazy8s said:

I was just coming here to say that - the redditt recaper must have mis heard the name on the zoom hearing

 

To quote Shawn Spencer (from Psych), I’ve heard it both ways. 
Aloud, they sound very similar. 

[ginger90]

Just now, Jeeves said:

Thanks. I will have to go clean up my prior posts. I picked up the spelling from reddit. Oops.

I get why it was heard incorrectly. Just wanted to get the correct name out there. 😁

[Tdoc72]

1 minute ago, farmgal4 said:

He’s a sick, twisted POS.

I agree!
 

If these charts have several examples (which it sounds like they do), I think that would a very compelling physical exhibit that would make it hard for the jury to ignore. 

[Tuxcat]

I am confused. Josh has extensive knowledge of computers and is informed enough to install a partition (to conceal from covenant eyes), use the TOR browsers et cetera. People have talked about how savvy he was.  But he is stupid enough to use his birth year as his passcode on multiple accounts. Passcode protection is before internet 101.

I am worried that the defense will use this contradiction to feed doubt to the jury - "he couldn't possibly be both stupid and smart - someone set him up." All Josh needs is one juror to have doubt. Right?

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

The wife admitted she did not know the charges til the hearing and that her husband made the decision and supports his decisions, and admitted she's not very comfortable with being alone with Josh after hearing everything but swore she would call law enforcement before her husband/JB

What I would like to know is if the judge is familiar with these religious freaks that think the wife has no say in all of this and the husband is head of household.  

Also, I dont think this poor lady is expected to wait on Josh hand and foot.

[mynextmistake]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I'm really scratching my head on the Reavers being deemed suitable guardians. I felt like Mrs. Reaver was practically BEGGING the judge to say "Hell No!" with all the red flags she was dropping during her testimony. 

Minors in the home, weapons in the home, room with outside access, wife admitting she's not comfortable alone, wife admitting she's only doing this out of deference to her husband, adult daughter not comfortable with set-up, etc. Seriously, who in their right mind adds up those factors and thinks, "Yep, Mrs. Reaver has the right constitution to deal with a pedophile." What the actual fuck is going on here?

Yep. She was all but flashing “no! no! no!” in semaphore and the judge was like “welp, cool, enjoy your new houseguest.” 

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Also, I dont think this poor lady is expected to wait on Josh hand and foot.

Not legally perhaps. In the fundie world though? She'll be his Jana.

[JoanArc]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I am confused. Josh has extensive knowledge of computers and is informed enough to install a partition (to conceal from covenant eyes), use the TOR browsers et cetera. People have talked about how savvy he was.  But he is stupid enough to use his birth year as his passcode on multiple accounts. Passcode protection is before internet 101.

I am worried that the defense will use this contradiction to feed doubt to the jury - "he couldn't possibly be both stupid and smart - someone set him up." All Josh needs is one juror to have doubt. Right?

Partitioning, tor, etc. are pretty common. Honestly, the average middle school or high school or could do this kind of stuff in their sleep. And probably better than Josh. He was the classic mix of stupid person that thinks they’re smart.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 minute ago, mynextmistake said:

Yep. She was all but flashing “no! no! no!” in semaphore and the judge was like “welp, cool, enjoy your new houseguest.” 

You're right.   That part really pissed me off. And,if thats the best JBooger can come up with, then Josh should just sit in jail.

[coconspirator]

I disagree with the release but overall I’m not surprised, and I don’t think he was given any special treatment. Third party custodians don’t have to be perfect and the court isn’t tasked with determining if the people WANT to watch after him-only that they don’t have charges that would make them inappropriate, are willing to remove guns, don’t bring kids into the home, and agree to report violations. Ms. Reaver showed up and said he could stay with them; parsing subtext isn’t the court’s job.
 

Because Duggar hasn’t been convicted of anything yet they can’t keep in jail based on what might happen. I’m also not seeing it as a surprise that he can see his kids. None of the images depicted his children and he’s been around them during the investigation. Not all sexual offenders assault their own kids and without proof that he’s an imminent risk to the M’s, the court is usually reluctant to keep kids and parents  apart. None of this is to defend Josh—he’s scum— but I think people maybe had unrealistic expectations for today.

Edited May 6, 2021 by coconspirator

[Tdoc72]

5 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I am confused. Josh has extensive knowledge of computers and is informed enough to install a partition (to conceal from covenant eyes), use the TOR browsers et cetera. People have talked about how savvy he was.  But he is stupid enough to use his birth year as his passcode on multiple accounts. Passcode protection is before internet 101.

I am worried that the defense will use this contradiction to feed doubt to the jury - "he couldn't possibly be both stupid and smart - someone set him up." All Josh needs is one juror to have doubt. Right?

To me, it points more to his guilt b/c he used that password on a few other accounts. Also he probably thought he was so slick, he’d never get caught in the first place. But yes, it only takes one juror to acquit. 

3 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

Yep. She was all but flashing “no! no! no!” in semaphore and the judge was like “welp, cool, enjoy your new houseguest.” 

Yea, she seemed very reluctant but unable to express that.  I wish the judge had picked up on it more. 

[Jeeves]

I wonder if the Rebers had a clue how nasty the charges are, when Mr. Reber agreed to do JB a solid by giving Josh a place to stay, and. Mrs. Reber "supported" that decision.

I also wonder if Mr. Reber will put up with any arrogant or entitled behavior by Josh in the Reber home. Reber could be one of those guys who in his headship role is not tolerant of people showing disrespect to his wife. 

I don't know if the Rebers were really ready for all the publicity they will be getting.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Jeeves

[emmawoodhouse]

29 minutes ago, Clawdel said:

Until she was kicked out for violating the rules. If you want a professional to explain this shit show, go to Emily D. Baker, Crime Talk,  or 10 to Life. WOACB is a weasel. 

Emily is my fave. She's going live in about half an hour. 😃

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

To me, it points more to his guilt b/c he used that password on a few other accounts. Also he probably thought he was so slick, he’d never get caught in the first place. But yes, it only takes one juror to acquit. 

Yea, she seemed very reluctant but unable to express that.  I wish the judge had picked up on it more. 

The criminal justice system is actually really bad at picking up cues that a woman may be under pressure or being abused. Fundie women like Mrs. Reber would be used to talking in a kind of code that she's not actually okay with something or all is not well. To openly go against her headship would be unthinkable. In this case she was dropping more than coded clues that she wasn't actually okay with this and the judge didn't pick up on that.

[WinnieWinkle]

5 minutes ago, coconspirator said:

Third party custodians don’t have to be perfect and the court isn’t tasked with determining if the people WANT to watch after him

Exactly.  The judge likely agreed to the Rebers because she realised that they were the quality of people who would be paraded through the court - may as well pick them and get it over with  because him getting out was inevitable.

[xtwheeler]

55 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

Does anyone know how much federal judges earn? 

Federal district judges (before whom Josh would have appeared) get paid a little over $200k a year, and have the job for life. 

[JoanArc]

5 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The criminal justice system is actually really bad at picking up cues that a woman may be under pressure or being abused. Fundie women like Mrs. Reber would be used to talking in a kind of code that she's not actually okay with something or all is not well. To openly go against her headship would be unthinkable. In this case she was dropping more than coded clues that she wasn't actually okay with this and the judge didn't pick up on that.

I was surprised to read that she’s been a judge for three days.

[3girlsforus]

I am not an emotional person. At least I don’t typically cry. But I couldn’t stop the tears when I read he has unlimited access to his kids as long as Anna is there. I do not believe he will abuse them in her presence. But having access to Anna and the kids without anyone else there means he can put on a full court press to convince Anna this is her fault and he didn’t do anything wrong. No hope someone can get to her and convince her that she can and must not only leave Josh but also break ties with the Duggars. There won’t even be hope she’d go back to the Keller’s because as long as Joshie boy is able to see the kids she will be near him. 
 

I had a slightly different take on poor Ms Reber (spelling pending). Absolutely she’s a fundie wife and she did not make this decision. However I do believe she will rat out Josh to the feds as asked in the questioning. If she was willing to cover for him or only do what JB/her husband says concerning Josh she would have just said ‘yes I want Josh here’. But she didn’t. She said she was worried about it. She said she was agreeing because she supported her husband. She told the truth even though it didn’t just parrot her husband. That’s as close to outright disobedience as a fundie wife is likely to get. I think that means she does think it’s important to obey the law. 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, satrunrose said:

Kudos to the people who called that they'd ask an elder to be the third party guardian. Zella, do you know if the headship thing is widely known in the community? I read the summary and saw "headship says yes, so I say yes (please no!)" but someone who doesn't know that dynamic might assume an (understandable) reluctant consent. 

Realistically, you aren't going to find anyone to enthusiastically agree to babysit someone with these charges for months, so I hope the judge didn't mistake that for Mrs Reaver having no choice at all in the matter (as she likely didn't). 

I'm just catching up here because I was work for all of this, and what I was seeing update wise from reddit was too upsetting for me to read at work. 

But in my experience, snarkers are better informed about Duggar beliefs than most locals. 

Most of the people I've talked to about the family know they have a lot of kids and that Josh molested his sisters, but I don't think they really know a lot of details about the family's actual beliefs. I didn't know about the Gothard connection myself until I started reading this board a few years ago. 

[3girlsforus]

15 minutes ago, coconspirator said:

I think people maybe had unrealistic expectations for today.

I agree. The only thing that didn’t go as I expected is that he can see his kids without a supervisor that isn’t his wife. I assumed he would be able to see them supervised, scheduled and  at a 3rd party place.  Unrestricted access to the kids and Anna really upset me. 

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, 3girlsforus said:

I agree. The only thing that didn’t go as I expected is that he can see his kids without a supervisor that isn’t his wife. I assumed he would be able to see them supervised, scheduled and  at a 3rd party place.  Unrestricted access to the kids and Anna really upset me. 

Exactly. That's the major sticking point for me as well. I fully expected a release.

[Clawdel]

12 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Emily is my fave. She's going live in about half an hour. 😃

There's nothing like a real lawyer explaining things to us in terms we can understand. She's not going to monetize tonight's video. WOACB (I can't help myself, I watched her video) is pretty much panting about all the $$$$ she's raking in on Duggar gossip and freaking out about her chat being restricted. 

[Jeeves]

3 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I was surprised to read that she’s been a judge for three days.

What's her name? It's possible that she is a Magistrate Judge. That's not the same thing as a U.S. District Court Judge. Those Judges are appointed by the President, confirmed by Congress, and serve for life.  

Magistrate Judges are essentially "assistant judges" - who are appointed by the Judges in the Federal Court district, and serve for eight year terms if full time and four year terms if part time. "Magistrate judges generally oversee first appearances of criminal defendants, set bail, and conduct other administrative duties," to quote the Wikipedia article.

[Clawdel]

17 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I also wonder if Mr. Reber will put up with any arrogant or entitled behavior by Josh in the Reber home. Reber could be one of those guys who in his headship role is not tolerant of people showing disrespect to his wife. 

If Reber gave a shit about his wife and daughter, he wouldn't have a predator in his house. These Quiverfull men are real bastards. 

[Tabbygirl521]

I am still trying to dig around for specifics from today’s testimony. Did Mrs Reacer express concern about being alone with Josh because he’s a horrifying sex offender, or because their crazy religion doesn’t allow an unmarried man and woman to be alone together? Did she specify?