Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Annb67]

9 minutes ago, cereality said:

Usually yes. Depending on what the charges are sometimes the time can be light -- like a year in prison and then 3-5 years of supervised release with the ankle bracelet (the federal equivalent of probation) which for this family is NBD because they spend all day every day on the compound anyway so more time to pray and make babies.

But it may not be a light sentence IF it's a financial/tax fraud that he's been engaged in over years and years; the lighter sentences are like for a one time embezzlement and you never did it again. If they've been manipulating income/not paying taxes/money laundering for years, that's a different type of charge with a higher sentence because it'll be a larger amount of financial "damage" to the gov't if they haven't paid taxes or to their victims say if they've money laundered.

Though aren't all of their fortunes tied here? If this IS a financial fraud type of thing, you know it was set up by JB because Josh isn't bright enough to do that. But I have a heard time believing it was just set up by JB for Josh ALONE.  All of the brothers and Ben work in the same ridiculous "businesses" like warehouse leasing or towing or the car lot -- they're all drawing income from any such fraud. But I wonder if the difference is that JB and Josh knew it was a fraud whereas Ben and co. were like -- what I got a paycheck for sweeping the garage and selling a car last month.

IDK because this is Josh alone -- and not JB or any of the brothers -- and given his history with his sisters; Ashley Madison; and prostitution -- IDK I feel like there could be something more and something more sordid than financial crime. I'm a fed court lawyer not a therapist but those kinds of problems don't just get fixed because your wife makes 3 more babies with you and is more attentive to your needs and you go to a few weeks of Christian counseling here and there.

Or could it be they are seeing if he’ll flip on the others?

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, cereality said:

Usually yes. Depending on what the charges are sometimes the time can be light -- like a year in prison and then 3-5 years of supervised release with the ankle bracelet (the federal equivalent of probation) which for this family is NBD because they spend all day every day on the compound anyway so more time to pray and make babies.

But it may not be a light sentence IF it's a financial/tax fraud that he's been engaged in over years and years; the lighter sentences are like for a one time embezzlement and you never did it again. If they've been manipulating income/not paying taxes/money laundering for years, that's a different type of charge with a higher sentence because it'll be a larger amount of financial "damage" to the gov't if they haven't paid taxes or to their victims say if they've money laundered.

Though aren't all of their fortunes tied here? If this IS a financial fraud type of thing, you know it was set up by JB because Josh isn't bright enough to do that. But I have a heard time believing it was just set up by JB for Josh ALONE.  All of the brothers and Ben work in the same ridiculous "businesses" like warehouse leasing or towing or the car lot -- they're all drawing income from any such fraud. But I wonder if the difference is that JB and Josh knew it was a fraud whereas Ben and co. were like -- what I got a paycheck for sweeping the garage and selling a car last month.

IDK because this is Josh alone -- and not JB or any of the brothers -- and given his history with his sisters; Ashley Madison; and prostitution -- IDK I feel like there could be something more and something more sordid than financial crime. I'm a fed court lawyer not a therapist but those kinds of problems don't just get fixed because your wife makes 3 more babies with you and is more attentive to your needs and you go to a few weeks of Christian counseling here and there.

I agree, but I do keep in mind that this is Josh alone -- thus far.   He may have been the access point and the weak link regarding financials, which the feds are ready to use to their full advantage at this point.   I could totally see Josh not attending to details and leading authorities to uncover a scheme and the authorities recognizing someone with weaknesses they could exploit to provide information to uncover a larger operation.

If it's not financially based they may have finally reached the end of leads that resulted from a deep dive into his activities and are now ready to close up that portion of things by prosecuting him.   It's likely anything uncovered in a non financially based investigation of his activities would have led them away from the family.

[JoanArc]

 I just realized if the show continues it will be called...18 Kids and Counting

[cereality]

So I haven't followed this show in years -- don't really watch Counting On. Why do people keep referring to the warehouse? Is that the same warehouse were Ben lived when he was courting Jessa? Because as I remember it all that had was a single room upstairs -- like how would a family with 7 kids live there? Were they not living in that house Grandma Mary used to own?

[JoanArc]

1 minute ago, cereality said:

So I haven't followed this show in years -- don't really watch Counting On. Why do people keep referring to the warehouse? Is that the same warehouse were Ben lived when he was courting Jessa? Because as I remember it all that had was a single room upstairs -- like how would a family with 7 kids live there? Were they not living in that house Grandma Mary used to own?

 Josh sold his house a while back, without buying another one. With some Internet investigations it’s been theorized that  they have been living in that warehouse. It is mostly based on photographs. It is a reasonable speculation. It is basically a half warehouse half house. I don’t know how many bedrooms it has but there is definitely enough room for Josh’s family.  I think they expanded a little bit after bin moved out. It was basically a guest house, just with no style, class, or windows. 

[realityfan26]

This is a far-fetched guess, but could JB have set Josh up for a financial fall in order to get Josh confined with no opportunity for his vices?

[absnow54]

5 minutes ago, cereality said:

Were they not living in that house Grandma Mary used to own?

Jessa and Ben live in that house now.

[JoanArc]

Just now, absnow54 said:

Jessa and Ben live in that house now.

I think the poster is referring to the pool house. The one where grandma lived and unfortunately drowned. Jessa and Ben live in the mold house, which grandma used to own.  Different property. 

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, realityfan26 said:

This is a far-fetched guess, but could JB have set Josh up for a financial fall in order to get Josh confined with no opportunity for his vices?

That reflects badly upon JB, his headship, his parenting abilities and his overachievements in piety.   I don't see that as likely.

I could however see JB deciding that he could place Josh in the scapegoat position in order to run some kind of scheme, banking on everyone assuming the prodigal son screwed up and leaving JB in the clear.

[CouchTater]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

That reflects badly upon JB, his headship, his parenting abilities and his overachievements in piety.   I don't see that as likely.

I could however see JB deciding that he could place Josh in the scapegoat position in order to run some kind of scheme, banking on everyone assuming the prodigal son screwed up and leaving JB in the clear.

Kind of like "Succession," for any of you who watch that wonderful HBO show.  The dad of that show convinced his prodigal son to take the legal fall for him, but at the last minute the son ratted out his father at a very public press conference.  That would be a shocking Duggar turn if that happened today!!! 

Edited April 30, 2021 by CouchTater

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Kind of like "Succession," for any of you who watch that wonderful HBO show.  The dad of that show convinced his prodigal to take the legal fall for him, but at the last minute the son ratted out his father at a very public press conference.  That would be a shocking Duggar turn if that happened today!!! 

If the arrest is for financial shenanigans, then it is very likely the Feds picked up Josh first to get him to talk.

[lascuba]

10 minutes ago, realityfan26 said:

This is a far-fetched guess, but could JB have set Josh up for a financial fall in order to get Josh confined with no opportunity for his vices?

I immediately thought this too, because I was convinced that Homeland Security investigation was about JB's finances. But realistically, the simplest (and least exciting for my conspiracy loving heart) explanation is the mostly like  the right one. This is all Josh.

[iwantcookies]

Almost time 😭🤡😺

[3girlsforus]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

If the arrest is for financial shenanigans, then it is very likely the Feds picked up Josh first to get him to talk.

I agree with this. And if he flips he could escape serious repercussions. But if it's not financial.... bye bye Josh :-) 

Edited April 30, 2021 by 3girlsforus

[Me from ME]

Quote

I could however see JB deciding that he could place Josh in the scapegoat position in order to run some kind of scheme, banking on everyone assuming the prodigal son screwed up and leaving JB in the clear.

That doesn't seem far-fetched. Remember when they were playing paintball and JB sacrificed (Siah?) by pushing him out in the open to draw fire. That's great, godly parenting right there.

[Tikichick]

Just now, 3girlsforus said:

I agree with this. And if he flips he could escape serious repercussions. 

But then what would be waiting for him on the homefront?

[iwantcookies]

Hope Josh saves himself by turning on daddy! (If that’s the case)
 

But he is a coward so I doubt that...

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

But then what would be waiting for him on the homefront?

Freedom from Anna and the kids !

Edited April 30, 2021 by iwantcookies

[Tikichick]

27 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 I just realized if the show continues it will be called...18 Kids and Counting

If this isn't financially based there is no show.

1 minute ago, iwantcookies said:

Hope Josh saves himself by turning on daddy! (If that’s the case)
 

But he is a coward so I doubt that...

Freedom from Anna and the kids !

He would have to provide his own home.   Even without the family to provide for, I don't see Josh stepping into anything that comes near to sustaining even himself alone.

[JoanArc]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

If this isn't financially based there is no show.

 Was joking. If anything the only show we deserve is Jill and Fenna: Bitching On.

[Annb67]

Dang 50 minutes EST. Hurry up! Lol

[Crochetlady]

3 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

If this isn't financially based there is no show.

He would have to provide his own home.   Even without the family to provide for, I don't see Josh stepping into anything that comes near to sustaining even himself alone.

What would he be qualified to do? What skills does he have besides making babies and smug faces. 

[3girlsforus]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

But then what would be waiting for him on the homefront?

Better than jail... he might be all about Duggar but when push comes to shove he's not going to jail for someone else. If the feds' bigger fish is a Duggar (JB or others) I don't think he'll flip quickly while he tries to get out of it without having to rat others out but I do think he'd ultimately rat if the other option is years in jail.

[JoanArc]

Just now, Annb67 said:

Dang 50 minutes EST. Hurry up! Lol

Oh Jesus, it’s central time! God why has thou forsaken me?

Edited April 30, 2021 by JoanArc

[AZChristian]

Just now, JoanArc said:

Oh Jesus, it’s central time! God why has thou for sake in me?

We live in Arizona, where we don't have DST, so sometimes it's only an hour between us and Central, sometimes it's two hours.

I confess to Googling the time difference today - JUST for this.  

[Westiepeach]

17 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Michelle's gotta be hysterical right now.

Michelle's gotta be even more drugged up than usual right now.

FIFY.

[iwantcookies]

3 minutes ago, Crochetlady said:

What would he be qualified to do? What skills does he have besides making babies and smug faces. 

A desperate leghumper might be Willing to support Joshua financially. There are some DESPERATE women out there. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Josh Smuggar: The Devil built a fortress in my heart.

Lucifer:

Lucifer: "I mean, why do they blame me for all their little failings? As if I'd spent my days sitting on their shoulder, forcing them to commit acts they'd otherwise find repulsive. "Oh, the Devil made me do it." I HAVE NEVER MADE ANY ONE OF THEM DO ANYTHING. Never."

Josh now:

[iwantcookies]

3 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Michelle's gotta be even more drugged up than usual right now.

FIFY.

Good old Plexus 🤠

[Tikichick]

One of the things I am most curious about is if he has representation today, and if so what kind?    This is not the time and date for JB's cheapness to win out.   They could wise up and upgrade later on, but strategically now is a good time to show up with a bulldog.  It can set the tone for much of what is to come. 

[iwantcookies]

Anything from Hillary Spivey? She only got to brag about being a Duggar adjacent  for a few months. Haha

[cereality]

3 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

One of the things I am most curious about is if he has representation today, and if so what kind?    This is not the time and date for JB's cheapness to win out.   They could wise up and upgrade later on, but strategically now is a good time to show up with a bulldog.  It can set the tone for much of what is to come. 

I imagine with Josh's history this family keeps a lawyer on speed dial -- someone of the fundie or very religious persuasion that JB knows from his politics days who is a big guy in Arkansas who'll stand up and scream that Josh has been wronged and this is just to malign the Duggars. Plus I read here last night (I think the person got it from Reddit) that the family has known this arrest was coming and Josh has been mentally preparing, so even if they didn't have counsel at the ready at the time of Ashley Madison etc., they likely did this time.

1 minute ago, iwantcookies said:

Anything from Hillary Spivey? She only got to brag about being a Duggar adjacent  for a few months. Haha

I know this is wrong to say but something seems wrong with that woman -- don't you think she's using this to cozy up even more to Justin. Get some more hugs and cuddling in. After all he's upset about his big brother and needs a shoulder to cry on. She seems hot for him and his brother -- I think Jason. May invite him down to Tx too to stay with them because the poor boy needs a reprieve from Arkansas and he can cry on Hil's shoulder too.

Edited April 30, 2021 by cereality

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, cereality said:

I imagine with Josh's history this family keeps a lawyer on speed dial -- someone of the fundie or very religious persuasion that JB knows from his politics days who is a big guy in Arkansas who'll stand up and scream that Josh has been wronged and this is just to malign the Duggars. Plus I read here last night (I think the person got it from Reddit) that the family has known this arrest was coming and Josh has been mentally preparing, so even if they didn't have counsel at the ready at the time of Ashley Madison etc., they likely did this time.

Guess that explains the under the influence mug shot.

I'm really intrigued with the idea that an arrest has long been expected -- and happened when JB & M were out of state, yet Josh was not, such as at a recent wedding.   That factoid makes me curious where this is going.     

ETA   I wonder if they understand what they need to base the representation decision on for this case?  Or did they proceed as you suggest, basing the decision on JB's standard M.O, or even more interesting, JB's best interests.      

Edited April 30, 2021 by Tikichick

[SMama]

If Josh does time, do Anna and kids have to move in the dorms again? Talk about sins of the father. 

[iwantcookies]

Oh Dear Hillary is crazy no doubt about that. She might adopt a few of the Duggar boys for herself.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

5 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

One of the things I am most curious about is if he has representation today, and if so what kind?    This is not the time and date for JB's cheapness to win out.   They could wise up and upgrade later on, but strategically now is a good time to show up with a bulldog.  It can set the tone for much of what is to come. 

Personally I am hoping he has:

And the outcome is:

I assume their lawyer will be wearing a large cross and an American flag pin in an attempt to show Josh as a godly, righteous man, a loving, proud, upstanding father of 6 soon to be 7 who is a role model to his brood, a loving husband devoted to his wife . . . . you know, all of the things he's not. 

[absnow54]

Just now, SMama said:

If Josh does time, do Anna and kids have to move in the dorms again? Talk about sins of the father. 

Wouldn't moving into TTH be an upgrade? At least they'd have windows.

[iwantcookies]

1 minute ago, SMama said:

If Josh does time, do Anna and kids have to move in the dorms again? Talk about sins of the father. 

From the warehouse to the big house the Josh Duggar story

[Lady Whistleup]

Maybe the show can be renamed Counting on ... Parole?

[GeeGolly]

Josh had three lawyers for the real estate transaction gone bad. The Travis guy was dismissed by the judge. Not sure who the other two are.

[Zella]

Count me in as another one who is really curious about the attorney. Are they going to use Travis Story again as their default or someone else? 

[Oldernowiser]

1 minute ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I assume their lawyer will be wearing a large cross and an American flag pin in an attempt to show Josh as a godly, righteous man, a loving, proud, upstanding father of 6 soon to be 7 who is a role model to his brood, a loving husband devoted to his wife . . . . you know, all of the things he's not. 

Yep. They’re going to lean HARD on religious persecution and probably have Anna set up a Gofundme to grift from the leghumpers. 

I can only hope this is the final straw for TLC, though…

[iwantcookies]

Anna better pray she does not wind up homeless living under a bridge 

 

😞😞😞

 

Can her parents put her in a trailer in their back yard??? Housing 8 people is no joke.

[MargeGunderson]

Just now, Zella said:

Count me in as another one who is really curious about the attorney. Are they going to use Travis Story again as their default or someone else? 

Please please please let it be Alan Dershowitz. (I dislike him as well)

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh had three lawyers for the real estate transaction gone bad. The Travis guy was dismissed by the judge. Not sure who the other two are.

I just checked Arkansas's Court Connect, and for suing the city of Springdale, he had 3 lawyers then too. Story, a Story associate, and then a lawyer out of Conway. Wonder if that's the same dream team for the real estate proceedings. 

Oops. He just had 2. The Conway guy was not his attorney. My bad! 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Zella

[iwantcookies]

I am curious if daddy will save Joshua or feed him to the wolves to save himself?! 
 

What are the charges!!!!! 

[Zella]

Just now, MargeGunderson said:

Please please please let it be Alan Dershowitz. (I dislike him as well)

Alan's going to see their name on caller ID and be like "Who dis?" LOLOL

Edited April 30, 2021 by Zella

[IndianPaintbrush]

Jill tells Entertainment Tonight:

Quote

We just learned this information. It is very sad.

Maybe she was just out of the family loop, but I don't think she knew ahead of time.

Edited April 30, 2021 by IndianPaintbrush

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Personally I am hoping he has:

And the outcome is:

I assume their lawyer will be wearing a large cross and an American flag pin in an attempt to show Josh as a godly, righteous man, a loving, proud, upstanding father of 6 soon to be 7 who is a role model to his brood, a loving husband devoted to his wife . . . . you know, all of the things he's not. 

If they're clinging to those types of ideas as a defense posture, he may as well plead today to whatever they've got, straight up, and save everybody a lot of time, a lot of money and more frenzied publicity.

[GeeGolly]

I wish we had a livestream link to the courthouse. 

[Zella]

The court paperwork for Josh's real estate thingy is kind of a clusterfuck to sort out. But just from tentatively eyeballing it, I think he had the same legal team from his Springdale lawsuit. My guess would be all his attorneys were from Story's law firm. It will be interesting to see if he continues that today.