Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[NEGirl]

I had read years ago(can not remember where now) that the Goselin's received $75K for each episode the last couple of years of their show.  They were able to afford that big house with the land about three years before the show ended. I had seen in I think people that they had made between 3 -6 million( the show and pers.appears.) before everything emploded.

Is JB required by law to set aside a certain amount of money for each kid ? Just wondering....

[3girlsforus]

From what I have read reality tv kids are not subject to the laws that protect child actors so no, JB is not required to save any percentage for his kids.

[JessDVD]

RE: selling his kids' childhoods, I don't disagree but JB is neither the first nor the last to do so, reality TV is not a new thing and plenty of parents have been willing to sacrifice their and their kids' lives for a TV show. If JB doesn't compensate his adult children fairly for their participation (which IS speculation as far as I'm aware), I don't agree with that either, but other than that, JB&M's participation in 19K&C isn't any worse than the million other reality TV shows that have come along over the years.

 

Back to Josh/Anna, I still think even though none of us know, that it's very unlikely that they're just lumped into the TLC contract with JB&M. I don't know the laws on this, but I would assume they, as their own household, would legally have to have their own contract with TLC when they got married. I'd like to think that they would stand up and say they're not appearing on the show unless they have their own contract, if that were ever in question but who knows on that....

[Absolom]

As I've said before the $75K figure for the Gosselins was not accurate.  It was around $24.5K.  The actual figures came out in their divorce.  I know the woman who launched the $75K figure and she was just talking through her hat.  Then it became internet lore.  

 

Oddly there is no legal requirement to pay people to be on reality shows - at least not in most or all states.  Of course, people are free to not participate if they aren't paid.  

Edited April 7, 2015 by Absolom

[GEML]

I also don't think it's true that the Sister Wives Contract doesn't have all of their names on it. Whether or not they "control" that money is their own choice - but their name is on that document somewhere.

I'm betting that it comes down to filming in someone's home. If you film in the Duggar house, Jim Bob is the one who gets paid. That might also explain why he kept ownership privileges of Josh's car lot. But any filming done in another home is likely outside of Jim Bob's (pardon the pun) jurisdiction. It may be complicated by who owns what and paying (or not) of rent. For instance, the little house is not owned by Jim Bob, but his mother, which might be why Josh and Anna had to be paid separately (and why there is a tax issue now? Perhaps they did not wish to be paid separately?). Jim Bob DOES own the stoneybrook house. Would that change things? I don't know. The Bates' of course, would give permission for their home, as would the Kellers.

Edited April 7, 2015 by GEML

[frenchtoast]

Folks, this is Josh and Anna's topic...and I do realize it started by  wondering how much/if Josh and Anna are paid...but please circle back to Josh and Anna.

[Literata]

I watched the whole "MacKynzie's Birth" VSE while I was folding laundry last night (I know, I know, my life makes you all jealous). And again, I marveled at the differences between the Kellers and the Duggars. I know the Kellers are Gothard as well, and they've had issues with kids leaving the fold, etc., so all is not perfect in their little corner of the world. But -- Dad Keller's freakishly high voice aside -- they just seem like such nice people.

 

Anna's mom flew in for the baby shower, and as soon as she saw Anna, who was pretty largely pregnant by that time, she went all verklempt and hugged her and told her how beautiful she looked. She was emotional and genuine and all the things a mother typically is. And the relationship between Anna and her sisters seemed very genuine as well (not sure how the dynamics are working now, as one sister is all heathen-ish and is actually a single mom, right?).

I think all this has impacted the way Anna mothers her kids; I'm certainly not on the "we'll have as many as God will give us" bandwagon, but so far, she seems to be a genuinely involved and loving mom. Even in the "Let's teach even my BOY child to sew" scene (F-you, Interwebs!), the way she was cuddling and interacting with Michael surpassed any such interaction we've seen between MEchelle and any of the J'kids except Josie. 

I don't like Anna's Instagram ramblings about abortion, and of course she's got the holier-than-thou thing going on. But Smuggar could have done a lot worse.

 

I wonder if the M'kids are ever allowed to spend extended time with the Kellers. Maybe when M4 comes, Anna will realize the wisdom in shipping the others to Florida for a week with the grandparents.

[CarolMK]

I can't decide if both Josh and Anna want to have as many kids as possible, or if it's just Anna who feels that way. Josh does appear to be a very involved dad and loves his kids, but I don't really see him as wanting 19-20 of his own. I do wonder if that organization that he's working for seems to demand that he have a large family himself...do this organization see birth control as evil/sinful? It's hard to keep track of what the different religions and political parties believe in regards to this.

[GEML]

I think Josh and Anna "want as many as God gives them" but recognize that in most families, that's about eight kids. I think Anna knows, for instance, that at some point she will require a c-section and that will mean fewer children right there. Right now she is in the peak of her child bearing years. She's already had one miscarriage (that we know of) and knows fertility after 35 isn't a given.

I do think Josh would like to take a break. I don't even think he'd mind a long break of five or six years, and then maybe one or two more later, since I think he genuinely likes large families and knows Anna wants a large one to raise.

But I really don't think they are trying for 18-20.

[JessDVD]

If J&A are after 18-20 kids, they need to get "producing" at a faster rate than they are now. I generally suspect that the spacing of their children is not entirely coincidental, it's a pretty even 2ish years, and if they keep up at that rate, that's still a pretty full house but 12ish kids at most. The 19-20 only happens if a mom is having babies every 14-18 months for her entire childbearing years. Sets of multiples help. Since either Anna is not that fertile or they are intentionally spacing a little more (or at least, not tracking and *trying* to have babies that close together), I think it's VERY unlikely they'll get past 12 or so. But just based on my own experiences, once Anna gets into her 30s and is raising a houseful (with or without kid moms) and notices the difference physically between having babies in the 20s and having more babies in the 30s, she may not be so keen on expanding the rodeo. 

 

And my other general opinion about the topic is that in my observations, people tend to gravitate toward whatever they grew up with, unless it was a negative experience. Anna is one of 8, and that has always seemed to be a positive experience for her. Josh grew up as 1 of "& counting" and I've not had the impression that it was always a super positive experience for him. If they keep going past 4 kids, I can see 8 being the "Ok, we can start tracking in the prevention department at this point...."

[Literata]

So what if Smuggar and Anna DO decide they don't want more kids, or don't want more for a few years? We know artificial birth control isn't acceptable to them; are they just screwed? (No pun intended -- ha.) I doubt any type of natural family planning is considered appropriate either ... so do they abstain? Do they cross their fingers and hope for the best? How does this work?

[Wellfleet]

So what if Smuggar and Anna DO decide they don't want more kids, or don't want more for a few years? We know artificial birth control isn't acceptable to them; are they just screwed? (No pun intended -- ha.) I doubt any type of natural family planning is considered appropriate either ... so do they abstain? Do they cross their fingers and hope for the best? How does this work?

 

Though he's never said so, and never would in my view, it seems abundantly-clear that Josh has never been a bonafide member of the Leaving-It-All-Up-To-God-We'll-Take-As-Many-Kids-As-He-Gives-Us club either. I have a feeling that after 2-3 more kids, maybe less, Joshie is suddenly going to be having a whole lot of headaches.

[JessDVD]

There's no possible way anyone can prove (well, technically there is but I don't want to consider how that would work) when J&A are or aren't ... you know... and if it is or isn't at the optimal time of Anna's cycle (I feel like a heel saying all this), so if J&A decide they want to slow the train down (at least, if they haven't already), they can and probably will do a basic NFP. Technically Michelle does/did NFP too, just in the having more, not having less dept.

 

I've never personally met any super fundie families, nor discussed this with any, but I'd be shocked if none of them ever practiced NFP at one point or another, just in the "I have a headache" department (which technically falls under NFP). Plus, a bunch of little kids is an excellent form of birth control in and of itself...

[Saylii]

Vasectomies, tube ties, and birth control pills & devices would probably be out.

There is some religious leeway with condoms, but I'm not sure that J&A would bother with them. I have a feeling they don't chart anything, have sex when they feel like it, and get pregnant if it is to be. If they aren't willing to use condoms for religious reasons, I doubt they are taking the time for NFP charting, especially since Anna is the in-law.

[Darknight]

Josh can sit down with Anna since he is headship( I hate that title) and say look we can't afford to have all these kids. Either we look into other options or don't have sex. Josh can get a vasectomy. With or without Anna's permission. There's also the less successful pull out method. But they might believe wasting sperm is sinful

[Jenilane6]

According to Radaronline, Josh and Anna have purchased a home in Siloam Springs, Arkansas.  It is a foreclosure for $55,000, needs some work and is not large enough for 10 or more kids..  

[GEML]

Not that I think this means anything, but both of them grew up in homes most of us would think were not big enough for three kids, let alone the families they knew.

[cmr2014]

If I was 20 something with 3 or 4 kids and my twenty something husband looked like Josh, I would be taking a long hard look at the future. And, even robustly healthy young couples in their situation have to deal with the potential for ugly surprises down the road.

 

What happens to their kids if something happens to Josh and Anna? Their own siblings will be raising their own mega-families and, once the TLC money comes to an end, they will probably not have the financial resources to feed an additional 12 kids. And what happens if something happens to Josh? I'm sure he has some modest life insurance at work, but I doubt it's enough to see 4 kids (much less 12 kids) through to adulthood. Anna has no job skills, and I don't know how she would manage.

 

I'm not a big fan of Josh, but he seems to be more rational and responsible than his parents -- he must have thought of this? Do they believe that only bad people have car accidents? Do they think that people who pray enough never get cancer?

[ChicksDigScars]

Josh, being the oldest of the Duggar kids, was around for every birth, every addition to the dog and pony show. He remembers the crowded little house and his dipshit parents adding to the burden with another sibling every year. Shit, he probably heard it through the bedroom walls and was old enough to be creeped out by it. I HOPE that despite his extreme smugness, this life experience has given him the perspective that more is NOT necessarily merrier. I get the impression that he was fine with three kids. It's Anna that gets baby fever. 

Edited April 10, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[TaxNerd]

Super late to the tax discussion but I can't help but chime in. If I had to bet, I would place money on J&A owing back income taxes to the state for non-monetary compensation. For instance, J&A take a TLC trip and they say it was for work, but the state views it a perk like earned income that they owe tax on. I could see that being disputed and drawing on for many years.

An aggressive state could even argue all those Chick-fil-a meals productions buys Josh while filming (if that is what happens) should be totalled up and added to his 1099.

It's a fine line. Swag bags from award shows are taxed to the recipient, but if your employer orders pizza for a meeting, you aren't taxed.

Anyone know their views on retirement funds? Or is the plan always your kids take care of you?

[kalamac]

If my life plan was to always have kids take care of me, I'd being doing everything I could to have them educated and gainfully employed, so they had the resources to take care of me properly.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

If J&A are after 18-20 kids, they need to get "producing" at a faster rate than they are now. I generally suspect that the spacing of their children is not entirely coincidental, it's a pretty even 2ish years...

If a couple isn't trying for a baby but isn't preventing, it's generally around 2 years between births. I think if Anna was actively trying to get pregnant, she'd have them closer together, though. Perhaps she doesn't understand how to conceive, beyond the "sweet fellowshipping" part?

[floridamom]

TaxNerd, the Duggars don't do anything properly....that's why Michelle had to take those kids and that poor dog to a "professional" to teach them how to bathe that poor guy. But yet, they are pseudo professionals at whatever they observe from a real professional; ie, carpet laying, concert piano playing, Jill's midwifery, etc....

If Anna suffers from "baby fever" Josh should be able to tell her the facts of life and if he isn't into "10+kids' she needs to be aware of that....I still think Josh has yet to grow up himself and not be afraid of his parents' reaction to limiting HIS family if that is the case.

[BitterApple]

I think the Duggar kids are afraid to go against the grain because things like skirts, armies of children and homefoolin' are such a huge part of their identity.

Josh has explicity stated he would be fine with a small number of children. I also don't think he would have a problem with Mack and Michael attending a Christian pre-school. However, his family's livelihood is still very much in the hands of Daddy Duggar, who could easily pull the plug on Josh's TLC checks. For a guy with no education and no skills that's a pretty scary position to be in.

[lottiedottie]

Isn't using NFP against God's will? If you were truly leaving it up to the will of God, then you wouldn't need to track anything, you'd just do it when the holy spirit moves you and if a baby results, it's God's will. Doesn't MeChelle trust God? /snark

[GEML]

For someone of Josh's age, a one million dollar life insurance policy would be only a few hundred dollars a year. I'm sure he has one. Plus he probably had one for less that, but something reasonable through work. Maybe more than one policy.

[Darknight]

If I was 20 something with 3 or 4 kids and my twenty something husband looked like Josh, I would be taking a long hard look at the future. And, even robustly healthy young couples in their situation have to deal with the potential for ugly surprises down the road.

What happens to their kids if something happens to Josh and Anna? Their own siblings will be raising their own mega-families and, once the TLC money comes to an end, they will probably not have the financial resources to feed an additional 12 kids. And what happens if something happens to Josh? I'm sure he has some modest life insurance at work, but I doubt it's enough to see 4 kids (much less 12 kids) through to adulthood. Anna has no job skills, and I don't know how she would manage.

I'm not a big fan of Josh, but he seems to be more rational and responsible than his parents -- he must have thought of this? Do they believe that only bad people have car accidents? Do they think that people who pray enough never get cancer?

I wonder this too. What if something happens to Joshanna? Or to other mega families. I mean who will take care of 19 kids? They will be split up with different family members or in foster care.

Isn't using NFP against God's will? If you were truly leaving it up to the will of God, then you wouldn't need to track anything, you'd just do it when the holy spirit moves you and if a baby results, it's God's will. Doesn't MeChelle trust God? /snark

They're backwards. They track their cycles like hawks to get pregnant. That's not leaving it up to god.

[Mrsjumbo]

I just wanted to say that I smile whenever I see the name "Smuggar" written here. That is the most perfect nickname ever!

[cereality]

I was surprised that Jessa posted a video of Marcus wearing headphones and dancing/moving to a beat. It was obviously shot in Arkansas and Josh was sitting right there and didn't stop him or anything; in fact when he tried to run off -- Josh stopped him from doing that bc he was plugged into the headphones. I'm sure JB and Michelle weren't around. Seems like the older kids are loosening the grip on the fundie stuff -- little by little. Just a few yrs ago we saw a howler getting scolded for bopping to the beat produced by a toy and we had Josiah -- before his sullen teen phase, when he was in his pre-teen, I know everything and my family is better than yours phase -- going on about how rock music is terrible bc it makes you move and stirs up desires that can't be righteously fulfilled or some other nonsense. Looks like times are changing for the next generation.

[flyingdi]

I was watching repeats yesterday and I came to a conclusion. I think Anna, out of everyone on the show, has the most difficulty being fake. She tries the sweet voice and adoring stare, but you can plainly see every emotion on her face. Two examples are Jessa`s engagement and Jill's wedding.

The 1st was when she asked Ben what would happen if Jessa said no and Ben said he didn't see why she would. Anna said to Josh, "If you had said that to me, I'd have said no." I kinda believed her.

The 2nd was when she showed up at the Duggars for Jill's wedding. She gave a clear look of WTF and disapproval when she saw Jana doing all that dress work herself..Anna is really not good at hiding things.

[galax-arena]

Should I feel ashamed for thinking that Josh was cute - in a throwback-to-the-1950s, squeaky clean sort of way - back when the first couple of documentaries aired? Is that something I should have taken to my grave? Because now I look at him and go, "...Eesh." 

 

ETA: I can't tell whether you guys are liking my post because you think, "Yes, Josh Duggar used to be cute," or because you think, "Yes, you should be ashamed."

Edited April 11, 2015 by galax-arena

[GEML]

I think Anna has trouble faking too. I'd point to the episode where they made the mobile as a "wedding" present when it was clear it was after they were already married. You could see how uncomfortable she was with it.

[BuddyMom]

I completely agree that Josh was a nice looking teenager. The polo shirts were a bit dorky but really he was cute and relatively well spoken compared to some if the younger kids.

I think that's what makes his change in appearance in the last 5 years even more concerning. If 3 children and working a "regular" job made him so unhealthy, Anna needs to reconsider her childbearing plan. He looks older than most of the men in my peer group (all in their 30s and 40s).

[BitterApple]

flyingdi, I remember Anna having a total WTF look on her face when she found out that Jana was sewing all the dresses herself. IIRC, both the Duggar and Keller girls pitched in to make the dresses for Anna's wedding.

Looking back on things, both Anna and Priscilla had really nice weddings in comparison to the two debaucles we've seen from the Duggars thus far.

[Wellfleet]

flyingdi, I remember Anna having a total WTF look on her face when she found out that Jana was sewing all the dresses herself. IIRC, both the Duggar and Keller girls pitched in to make the dresses for Anna's wedding.

Looking back on things, both Anna and Priscilla had really nice weddings in comparison to the two debaucles we've seen from the Duggars thus far.

 

Agree - I don't remember Priscilla's wedding too well. TFDW made it pretty difficult to watch the first time - and impossible to re-watch. But I thought Anna's wedding was very nicely done. Nowhere near the normal Technicolor Normandy invasion most girls seem to have these days. And the bridesmaids' dresses were understated and lovely.

[EarlGreyTea]

Agree - I don't remember Priscilla's wedding too well. TFDW made it pretty difficult to watch the first time - and impossible to re-watch. But I thought Anna's wedding was very nicely done. Nowhere near the normal Technicolor Normandy invasion most girls seem to have these days. And the bridesmaids' dresses were understated and lovely.

And then to hear Smuggar passively aggressively complain about how much nicer Jill's wedding was (not his exact words)! When his was thrown by the Kellers, who even (gasp!) served food! He really is bitter about how much more interested the audience is in the girls, isn't he?

[Wellfleet]

And then to hear Smuggar passively aggressively complain about how much nicer Jill's wedding was (not his exact words)! When his was thrown by the Kellers, who even (gasp!) served food! He really is bitter about how much more interested the audience is in the girls, isn't he?

 

He really is. He's also a moron if he thinks either Jill's or Jessa's wedding was nicer than his. Neither was anywhere close to being as nice. But he's a Duggar and all that Gothard isolationism makes it pretty hard for Josh to have a rational point of reference.

[Jenniferbug]

Galax-arena, I thought Josh was cute in the first few specials too. He was still good looking in his wedding special. So you're not alone in thinking that :-)

Was it Anna or Josh who commented on the size of the house Jill and Derick got? I think they were a little envious of that too, and I guess I can't really blame them. They (and Jessa) got a decently nice little starter home. Jill got a mansion. I would be side eying that if it were my family.

[NEGirl]

It was Josh. And, his wedding was much nicer. Anna's parents had a nice wedding. Don't know what he was bitching about.

Edited April 11, 2015 by NEGirl

[GEML]

See, I didn't take their comments as jealous, I took them as bitchy. As kind of looking at each other saying, "and they wonder why we left ?" Comments. I thought Anna in particular was hilarious, and it all went completely over Jim Bob 's head.

[JenCarroll]

Oh, now I'm going to have to watch Jill's wedding so I can form an opinion on all this. So far I've avoided watching most of the weddings but I hit on the Waller wedding sort of accidentally, and got caught up in the sheer fabulousness of it. (O. M. G.) I wasn't totally sure at first if this was an actual wedding, a Broadway musical about a wedding, or a hoax, but apparently that really happened. Wow. (And btw, David -- your singing voice is not all that great.)

[marcie hartung]

I think Anna had a nip of dugger juice I swear all shetalks about is having more kids, I think she said in one episode, Practice makes progress and progress makes babies, I think in the episode when josh and Anna went on a road trip to see her sisters baby gender reveal, annagave her sister a nip of the dugger

juice, she was really high on life n unusually so!

[GEML]

See, I think Anna plans on a large family, but I also think she has a very dry wit. Way too dry for this family, and even TV.

[kalamac]

I'm not judging Anna yet on how many kids they have. My own mother had 5 pregnancies and 4 live births between the ages of 20 - 28, and quite a few people I know now have 3 - 4 kids all under 6, because they've decided to get all their pregnancies out of the way fast, so their kids are all close in age. If she keeps going after M4, maybe that's a different story, but right now she and Josh are doing the same thing many other young couples are doing.

[truelovekiss]

Sometimes I think Anna is behaving as a parody of her monster in law, on purpose. With things like the "progress makes babies," and sometimes when she and Josh are making eyes at each other, they start laughing, like it's their subtle way of goofing on Boob and Mullet. I also felt that way when she said 5 kids would be a good start. I do believe that she's a very devout Christian, and that she wants a larger than average family. But I don't think that she especially wants/expects to have another 15 after this one. I think she might want one, maybe two more.

[hlemommy]

I'm not judging Anna yet on how many kids they have. My own mother had 5 pregnancies and 4 live births between the ages of 20 - 28, and quite a few people I know now have 3 - 4 kids all under 6, because they've decided to get all their pregnancies out of the way fast, so their kids are all close in age. If she keeps going after M4, maybe that's a different story, but right now she and Josh are doing the same thing many other young couples are doing.

I agree with this I have 4 children between 4 and 9, I wanted to have them close together and while I'm still young.

[Abstract]

I could probably count on one hand the number of episodes I've seen of this show, though I've been reading here (and TwoP before) since before Jordyn was born, I think.

But tonight I watched the reruns of the RV trip to Chicago. Oh my. This is the most boring TV ever. I don't know how anyone watches it regularly!

MacKynzie needs speech therapy.

These kids aren't really having their lives filmed. They're professional actors like the Olsen twins were or any other child actors. The difference is that their fellow actors are their real family. Also, the lines are extremely fuzzy between their scripted TV roles and their real lives. I think everything on this show is scripted. Fake, fake, fake.

I was struck by a really odd thought, probably because I recently binge-watched Hart of Dixie. Josh and Anna, in their mannerisms and speaking style, make me think of a less-attractive version of George Tucker and Annabeth. Which would mean that Priscilla and David = Cricket and Stanley.

If there are any HoD fans here, you can't unsee this once you've seen it.

[kalamac]

I was struck by a really odd thought, probably because I recently binge-watched Hart of Dixie. Josh and Anna, in their mannerisms and speaking style, make me think of a less-attractive version of George Tucker and Annabeth. Which would mean that Priscilla and David = Cricket and Stanley.

Well, now I'm imaging the reaction if Pris left David for a female fire fighter from another town.

[Micks Picks]

Brilliant, Curt.   She'd also be Mo, number 4.

[Skittl1321]

 

He's also a moron if he thinks either Jill's or Jessa's wedding was nicer than his.

When he says "nicer" what he means is "they got a ton more free stuff from fans"