Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CofCinci]

Josh will stay. And I seriously believe he will start an RU type place in Arkansas It will be the 'Betty Ford' among the Fundies with celebrity Josh at the helm.

I could definitely see JB brainstorming that idea, especially since the treatment facility (lolz) can employ some of the other children.  Josh would be able to use some of his public speaking skills learned by the FRC for church-to-church recruiting.  Too bad the whole business idea is a house of cards built on Josh's horniness.  One blow, literally and figuratively, and the whole house of cards falls again.  

 

Which male sibling is going to be Josh's accountability parter for the next year or so?  He won't be left alone for a long time.  Josiah?  He probably needs an accountability partner too.

Edited August 29, 2015 by CofCinci

[Fuzzysox]

I think he will come back more bitter than ever.

[Aw my lahgs]

I've seen them claim an 80 percent success rate. That's almost as funny as "Needs more cowbell."

Define "success "...

Better at hiding their shit, probably, while acting all righteous & fundie.

[kandinski]

Define "success "...

Better at hiding their shit, probably, while acting all righteous & fundie.

Exactly...Meeting other people in the same boat,they can exchange tips on how to leave no trail and carry on in secret!

[kokapetl]

Replying to the comment somewhere above that Josh never got any "court ordered counseling." I'm sure he never went through any really meaningful or effective counseling.

But I believe that the Duggars did have some kind of "counseling" which was probably not directly controlled by Gothard, because of involvement with their state/local Child Protective Services (sometimes known as Human Services or Social Services - not sure the exact name they use for that agency in Arkansas). It happened after the Duggs were reported by Oprah's producers in 2006, and the subsequent interviews that were documented in the police report. No criminal charges were filed, but it did bring CPS/Human Services into their lives.

We know this because during Joshgate One, someone - probably InTouch - reported that back during that time, a local reporter happened to see a page from a court record which showed a civil case involving their Human Services (or whatever it's called) Department and Josh Duggar. The reporter noted the case name and number, but it's a sealed case, apparently because it involves Human Services' intervention in a family situation.

The other reason we know there was some kind of involvement is because during their Fox interview, either Jessa or Jill stated that their family had cooperated with Human Services, I think mentioned counseling, and that the social workers had complimented their parents on how well they'd done.

My betting is that the department didn't come down very hard on the Duggars who at the time were becoming famous reality TV stars, had probably already moved the family out of that nasty crowded rent house into the TTH, and probably presented a united front. IMO those social workers see so many truly horrific situations of child abuse/neglect in their work - horrible neglect, unimaginable kinds of sexual and physical abuse, raging cruelty - that the Duggars' situation was probably damn near idyllic by contrast. We don't know the details, and won't unless somebody in the family talks, but I figure their involvement was fairly brief and superficial, and the Duggars just gamed the system to get through it and get the case closed and Social Services out of their lives.

I don't think DHS was brief or superficial, in 2007 Josh appealed against a ruling or decision they made, and I don't think he was successful. Grandma bought the mold house from Michelle's father in July 2007, but Josh only married Anna in September 2008. Jimmy Lee Duggar died March 2009. I think Josh was living in that house before he was engaged to Anna. Did we ever see the newlyweds move in together? In 2009 Grandma paid $8,000 in property tax, and that house accounted for only $1,000 of it. Edited August 29, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Cherrio]

Oh my, what a...defrauding image of moist puffing manliness in taut-stretched spandex...Nike, Nike

(fans self with a handful of Chick tracts) It won't embed the Photoshop I threw together but I got it to link:

 

http://imgur.com/LJCWVg3

Classic !        I want a T shirt of that.     

[asuwur]

After thinking about the possible angles.....I think that deep down ol' boy wanted to get caught. There's just no way in the world he could have gotten away with it in the long run. At some point even a stripper with a heart of gold is going to talk....I still think he's going to break away within the next 2 years....

 

Poor Anna. It appears to me that she's a virtual prisoner of the Duggar love and probably has little to no communication outside of Duggarland and perhaps her Kellerville parents.

 

I REALLY want to know what the Derrick and Ben's moms are thinking about this. I can't imagine Kathy is thrilled....and Derrick's brother? I bet he's got some interesting insights...He didn't appear to enjoy this circus and to be Smuggar adjacent has got to be killing him right now.

[cheatincheetos]

Classic !        I want a T shirt of that.     

But T-shirts are immodest and defrauding!

[Barb23]

Define "success "...

Better at hiding their shit, probably, while acting all righteous & fundie.

You got that right. I'm not sure how long Josh will last. Since he's so out of shape, he'lll end up having a coronary from doing the physical work. Besides doing the exercises during the weight loss challenge & the marathon in DC, have we ever seen him doing anything physical? He couldn't even run/jog correctly while Steve, the trainer, was there.

Without going thru the handbook, does anyone know if the Prayer sessions are just a group thing or do the sinners meet individually with the group leaders? I would love to be a fly on the wall during these sessions.

I definitely see him doing the public speaking circuit thing, with Ben & Jessa being the opening act. Days ago someone asked if anyone else noticed a resemblance between the hooker & Josh's sisters. I did, think it is the sculpted eyebrows.

[CofCinci]

Without going thru the handbook, does anyone know if the Prayer sessions are just a group thing or do the sinners meet individually with the group leaders? I would love to be a fly on the wall during these sessions.

A combination of both.  Don't morph into a fly just yet --- they are forbidden to discuss their vices/addictions/"habits"(per their 501©3 material).

Edited August 29, 2015 by CofCinci

[GeeGolly]

Duggar Depuration Unanimous 

[Julia]

A combination of both.  Don't morph into a fly just yet --- they are forbidden to discuss their vices/addictions/"habits"(per their 501©3 material).

 

I wonder if that's how they get away with charging for recovery work when nobody there is qualified for or insured for or able to carry out recovery work. As long as nobody addresses the elephant in the room, it's technically a spiritual retreat.

[SometimesBites]

Thanks to those who went in bareback to the live stream last night. Between the needs-more-cowbell hilarity and the remarks about bandaid head, I was rolling. And thanks to Aja's transcription I now understand the mode of treatment: BORE the sin right out of them.

No wonder they have an 80% success rate. If "success" equals someone nodding and saying "I'm all better now!"

[Defrauder]

I know I'm quoting myself and that's weird but this is seriously the funniest thing that has happened to me in a long time. I am STILL peeing myself over it. 

 

I've processed what I heard. Essentially, from what I understand, they believe…quite literally…that Josh did all of the things he did because he quit saying his prayers every day. LITERALLY. The guy I listened to, the one with the oddly-shaped head, was banging on and on and on and on and on about how sin is darkness and Jesus is light and sin is deceit and Jesus is truth and truth is light and stumbling and darkness and darkness is combatted with light and there seemed to be no point whatsoever until the very end when he essentially said "…and that is why you should say your prayers every day." 

 

Oh Anna.

Damn I missed the live stream last night!  Sounds like it was a glorious blast. 

[JoanArc]

 

Oooh. A Duggar-operated branch of RU, managed by Josh, right there in Arkansas.

The Double D - Duggar Doucheranch.

[Aja]

I must confess that I don't get the "Needs more cowbells" joke.  Is it a reference to the Doug Phillips (is a tool) thread over at Free Jinger?

I will add to everyone else's explanations that, once you watch that skit, from that point forward until the day you die, the only thing you will hear whenever "Don't Fear the Reaper" comes on the radio is cowbell.

[Aw my lahgs]

Remembering the used car lot:

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-jim-bob-duggar-lied-under-oath-civil-court-case/

[CofCinci]

Remembering the used car lot:

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-jim-bob-duggar-lied-under-oath-civil-court-case/

I must have missed that story. Thanks for posting. These grifters never cease to amaze me. Trying to claim hail damage on 91 vehicles! I bet they've been doing that for years, getting ballsier each time. Does that Bible thing have any passages about Greed?

[whirlygirly]

You got that right. I'm not sure how long Josh will last. Since he's so out of shape, he'lll end up having a coronary from doing the physical work. Besides doing the exercises during the weight loss challenge & the marathon in DC, have we ever seen him doing anything physical? He couldn't even run/jog correctly while Steve, the trainer, was there.

Marathon? Lol. Pretty sure it was only a 5K. Not that there's any shame in finishing a 5K, just that nfw could Josh do a marathon.

[Churchhoney]

I think he will walk, too, once he figures out there is really nothing keeping him there but the wrath of his parents, unless that threat is too much to buck.  Or, do we think it is possible that he is in a place where he really just has to go along to get along and all the pressure is removed?  As crazy as that service/program is (are?)

 

Well, he's a strange one. But my guess is that one of these two will turn out to be the case. I don't actually believe that anybody, JB and M or "Reformers" Frigging "Unanimous" (for the love all that's holy, what a name), is actually going to be particularly hard on Joshie boy in the long run. Plus, I don't think he has the balls to walk. He might stroll out the door impulsively for a brief while. But, while I don't know this is true, anecdotal evidence among my acquaintance suggests that walkers driven only by impulsiveness tend to float back again pretty quickly. It's one thing to bolt out the door. It's another to cope with having left all security behind, after you've bolted.

[Anne Elk]

 Here's what a former FRC analyst says about Josh, from an opinion piece on the sexual goings-on of hypocritical conservative/evangelical/fundie guys:

 

 

That article is fascinating. I am leaning more toward the theory that this is all a sham. The point is for the Duggars to be able to say that they got Josh therapy, they paid for it, they cared for Anna and the kids while he was gone, and then voila! He comes back and they can do a People magazine cover about how Jesus reformed him. And the Duggars are back to being the best parents in America!

 

Boring sermons are not going to scare Josh off, I'm sure he's heard them practically every day of his life. He's already been through work and prayer camps, so even that is nothing new. Maybe he believes, maybe he doesn't, but either way it doesn't matter. He's just expected to put up the facade, sit through it for six months or whatever, and keep from getting caught sinning after that. 

 

In the videos for RU they say that their graduates are expected to serve as kind of distance ministers for the place once they return home. So yes, Josh will probably be taking up a career in ministry. Probably not a bad choice for him -- he gets attention and social cache, and that's what motivates him. Sure he has to pretend to walk the straight and narrow, but nobody in the fundie world seems very surprised when their ministers fail to live up to what they preach. And Josh can funnel all the people with problems in his community to RU for therapy! What an amazing pyramid scam!

 

It's just lies all the way down. We're looking at it the wrong way because we're assuming that they want to be truthful and live up to their principles. But none of this is sincere at all.

[RazzleberryPie]

I think he'll be out in a month,  and I agree with the poster who said he'll be on the Redemption Tour in  months. Speaking at churches about how he sinned and was delivered, then  passing the plate for a love offering, with a perptually pregnant Anna in two. 

 

If I know one thing, it's overzealous religious people - especially fundies (Baptist and Charismatic) LOVE a good Prodigal Son story. Most love the drama of a sheep straying from the flock, hitting rock bottom, and then Jesus showing them the light. People with these stories often fare better than people like Jana, who followed all the rules, didn't stray, hasn't been 'rewarded' with the husband and family she was promised, and seems sad and defeated. 

 

Even Jessa and Jill will fare better now on speaking tours, because they have something sinful thrust upon them (no pun intended) that they overcame.

[kokapetl]

Remembering the used car lot:

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-jim-bob-duggar-lied-under-oath-civil-court-case/

I must have missed that story. Thanks for posting. These grifters never cease to amaze me. Trying to claim hail damage on 91 vehicles! I bet they've been doing that for years, getting ballsier each time. Does that Bible thing have any passages about Greed?

I couldn't find any reference to $85,000 in the "shocking" court document, the tabloid writer could have pulled it "exclusively" out of her ass for all we know, and I couldn't find a mention to 91 vehicles in the article or court document. I don't think hail damage writing off most of Josh's inventory is far fetched, they were all kept outside in the one location, and they were all pieces of crap that aren't worth the cost of panel beating. And it's safe to assume that Radar online would have gleefully informed us had the Duggars claim been thrown out of court, or if the court ruled in favor of the defendant. I also wouldn't rely on the legal opinion of a tabloid writer who thinks the Duggars pay just $10 for a house. Edited August 29, 2015 by Kokapetl

[sometimesy]

Wow! I think you've hit the nail on the head folks. They will have a chain of Unanimous Redemption facilities. Not only livestreamed, but televised by Duggar Studios or TLC. The Redemption crap will employ all of the Duggs. Fascinating. Lot's of potential tax write offs as well. No education required. Previous sexual deviation, preferred but not required.

[farmgal4]

They're probably a well hidden emergency fund. All addict has stashes of some sort.

I respectfully disagree. Most addicts don't have two nickels to rub together, because they've blown all their money on whatever they're addicted to. That's why so many of them end up living in their car or are completely homeless.

[cheatincheetos]

Thanks to those who went in bareback to the live stream last night. Between the needs-more-cowbell hilarity and the remarks about bandaid head, I was rolling. And thanks to Aja's transcription I now understand the mode of treatment: BORE the sin right out of them.

No wonder they have an 80% success rate. If "success" equals someone nodding and saying "I'm all better now!"

church was never this fun growing up as it was watching that livestream with people snarking on the speaker and the lovebirds in back. And I had those kind of parents that made you go Sun am, Sun pm, Wed pm and Boys Brigade (basically some cheesy group for people who thought the Boy Scouts were "too liberal").

[Quilt Fairy]

I knew nothing about the SNL skit (haven't watched it in 30 years), but I still laughed at the post because - well - any reference to a cowbell is never NOT going to be funny. Unless you're the Von Trapp family, I guess.

[JoanArc]

 

I respectfully disagree. Most addicts don't have two nickels to rub together, because they've blown all their money on whatever they're addicted to. That's why so many of them end up living in their car or are completely homeless.

I can see your point. I just don't think josh was at the 'die in the gutter with a needle in his arm' zone yet. When the scandal went down he had a 6 figure job and TV money. There was definitely still some cash around. I was seeing it as akin to having an alcoholic always having a bottle under the sink, or a joint in the couch cushions kind of deal. *If* he's the type of guy to bang a porn star in secret, he might have five or ten grand stuck in a storage unit somewhere that no one else knows about. Hell, there may a blessing out there we don't know about.

 

I think it's worth remembering that addict does not necessarily equal down-n-out. Many, many rich and successful people are addicts, and are able to recover without losing it all. Rock bottom is subjective, though that RU meeting seems subterranian to me.

[dillpickles]

i can't believe i missed this. I gotta log in next week, and purpose it in my heart to get banned faster than anyone else.

[truthtalk2014]

i can't believe i missed this. I gotta log in next week, and purpose it in my heart to get banned faster than anyone else.

How soon do they post the recorded version?  

[Fuzzysox]

For FREE Boob should have set up a ministry in the warehouse were Bin preaches to Josh and then he will be all healed and shit because Bin made him see the path to JESUS!!!

i can't believe i missed this. I gotta log in next week, and purpose it in my heart to get banned faster than anyone else.

Everyone has to have a goal in life. *giggle*

[Fuzzysox]

I could definitely see JB brainstorming that idea, especially since the treatment facility (lolz) can employ some of the other children.  Josh would be able to use some of his public speaking skills learned by the FRC for church-to-church recruiting.  Too bad the whole business idea is a house of cards built on Josh's horniness.  One blow, literally and figuratively, and the whole house of cards falls again.  

 

Which male sibling is going to be Josh's accountability parter for the next year or so?  He won't be left alone for a long time.  Josiah?  He probably needs an accountability partner too.

I'm thinking righteous Bin will be volunteered to do the job. He can practice his ministering skills on Josh while Boob prepares the warehouse to accommodate the sinners in their new ministry of saving sinning souls like  the RU.

[kokapetl]

I'm genuinely curious, how many people here consider Josh to be an addict?

[JoanArc]

 

I'm thinking righteous Bin will be volunteered to do the job. He can practice his ministering skills on Josh while Boob prepares the warehouse to accommodate the sinners in their new ministry of saving sinning souls like  the RU.

Free labor by the inmates. Michelle will never have to lift a finger again, even if all the girls move out!

[3girlsforus]

I'm genuinely curious, how many people here consider Josh to be an addict?

 

I don't. Obviously I could be wrong but from what I've read it seems the big part of what makes an addict that they highlight to say he's an addict is the fact that he continued his behavior despite the risk and negative effect on his life. Well with that definition everyone who cheats or hires a hooker is an addict. Very rarely do those things not carry risk and a negative effect on someone's life. People make stupid and destructive choices. That doesn't make them an addict. Josh's destruction was just more widespread than most because he is in the public eye and his entire family was dependent on the TV show which was a casualty of his behavior. 

 

Calling Josh an addict implies he is compelled to behave this way. I think he just wants to. It's an outlet for a man stuck in a life he didn't want. 

[Julia]

I know I'm quoting myself and that's weird but this is seriously the funniest thing that has happened to me in a long time. I am STILL peeing myself over it... 

Damn I missed the live stream last night!

(koff)

:)

[DollEyes]

 

I'm genuinely curious, how many people here consider Josh to be an addict?

 

  I consider Josh to be an addicted to money, power, fame and attention. Josh reminds me of the scene in Madonna: Truth Or Dare, the concert documentary about her 1990 world tour, in which the director asked Madonna if she wanted to talk off camera and Warren Beatty, her co-star in the film version of Dick Tracy who was also her boyfriend at the time, said, "She doesn't want to live off-camera, much less talk." Josh's apparent inability to live off-camera is just one of his many problems, as far as I'm concerned.

[BitterApple]

I'm genuinely curious, how many people here consider Josh to be an addict?

I don't. My take is he got married too young, got bored and wanted to live the bachelor lifestyle. He's always been a spoiled jerk with an entitlement complex amd figured he could have his cake and eat it too. If Josh wasn't a smug hypocrite claiming to be a pillar of family values, this would be a non story.

[JoanArc]

 

I'm genuinely curious, how many people here consider Josh to be an addict?

I actually don't, unless attention counts. I think he'll never be able to give up the double life, though.

 

He is a fundamentally (no pun) damaged person.

[Fuzzysox]

Free labor by the inmates. Michelle will never have to lift a finger again, even if all the girls move out!

Total WIN for MEchelle!!!!!!!! And Boob gets to keep the money.

[Missy Vixen]

snort! hahahahah... Wish I could attend the conference just to hear what Jessa says at these. If she says the same thing at each one, does she refuse non preapproved questions. Did Anna do many of these? Josh, pre-scandal?

If I remember correctly from the account I read on a certain website that starts with "Free" of a previous appearance, Jessa Blessa would only allow questions from the children present. I'm not sure anyone under 18 is allowed in the "Southern Women's Show", so she may need to rethink her policy. I'm also thinking that her handlers demand all questions be pre-written on 3x5" cards and the handlers most likely show up with their own pre-written cards, if you know what I mean...

[kokapetl]

FYI I don't consider him an addict, just a selfish and reckless person. Any enjoyment he got from his seamy double life relied on him getting away with it. He probably reevaluated the risks and stopped after the molestation was exposed, and he definitely stopped when the Ashley Madison thing was exposed. This six months at rehab is just bizarre. He's going to come back seemingly cured of his "addiction" because it didn't really exist, and not a single person in the family will likely ever realise that.

[shipmate]

Well if he becomes a televangelist, he could get a nice big tax-free existence.  John Oliver spells it all out! 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

[TaxNerd]

Define "success "...

Better at hiding their shit, probably, while acting all righteous & fundie.

Places manipulate stats all the time too. They could mean 80% success rate of people who graduated, meaning anyone who left or got kicked out aren't counted.

Plus, they aren't allowed to talk about their addiction during "treatment" so how many will open up about it honestly when the staff calls for a six month check up?

I'd lie and say it worked just to avoid going back.

[JennyMominFL]

Zahdil, the "needs more cowbell" is a reference to a SNL skit with Will Ferrell, where he portrayed a cowbell-ringing member of a rock band of some kind.  At least, I'm pretty sure that's what it references.  I only saw a small part of the skit and although I love Ferrell, I was never a huge fan of SNL after the original cast was gone.

Feel free, anyone, to correct my post if I'm way off about this.  

Blue Oyster Cult. The song is Don't Fear the Reaper. What is wrong with you people?

[Fuzzysox]

If anyone grew up in Chicago you'll remember Steve Dahl's (famous Chg DJ) song "Heal Me." It was a parody song set to Blonde's Call Me, where Steve mocked tv evangelist Ernest Angely who used to "heal" people via the teeveeeee and got dumbfunks to send him money. I tried to link a copy but it's FULL of malware NO way was I going to post it. That song was soo entertaining and it's reminding me of this shit going down at RU.

[TaxNerd]

Regarding Anna leaving, I don't think she's ever thought about life beyond Wife/Mother. If she took her brother up on his offer, she could enroll in a two-year trade program that would give her a marketable skill. Josh would most certainly have to pay some kind of settlement plus child support so that would give her a little financial cushion. Would things suck for a while? Absolutely, but it would be much better than living your life wondering if your husband was giving you herpes or spending his checks on hookers.

Absolutely she could. She could easily take her brother up on his offer to support her and the kids, use the free legal counsel offered to get a divorce, and once things settle go to work. She has work experience, she sold cars and ran the used car lot. You know Josh wasn't the one doing the hustling back then. She could work as an admin in an office, or even as a car salesperson for a real dealership. People would buy cars from her out of interest and pity.

I get the impression she is above working and supporting her family. That's not how she was raised and if she leaves, she won't have the luxury of being a stay at home Mom. She is almost at that golden stage where the older kids can start doing the bulk of the household chores.

Maybe that's harsh, but I'm losing patience with her.

[Satchels of gold]

If I remember correctly from the account I read on a certain website that starts with "Free" of a previous appearance, Jessa Blessa would only allow questions from the children present. I'm not sure anyone under 18 is allowed in the "Southern Women's Show", so she may need to rethink her policy. I'm also thinking that her handlers demand all questions be pre-written on 3x5" cards and the handlers most likely show up with their own pre-written cards, if you know what I mean...

Ok guys I'm taking one for the team and I'm going to go. I am going to hell in a hand basket because I convinced my 14 year old daughter to go with me by telling her its a "like" a makeup convention. See Michelle, I know what makes me daughter tick. I will report back.

[CarolMK]

I don't consider Josh to be an addict, but I do consider him to be a product of his environment and he didn't appear to realize that it would be very easy for him to get caught in his private life. I don't think he truly wanted marriage and children at a very young age (didn't he and Anna marry at 19 and 20?), but he wanted to get away from home and it was the only acceptable way to do so. Maybe if Jim Bob had offered him the chance to go to Crown college he would have jumped at it, but the Duggars didn't have nearly as much money back in 2007 to pay for it. 

As an aside, I have never been to Chicago but would love to visit someday...and my favorite show based in Chicago is Shameless. 

[Gemma Violet]

I don't. My take is he got married too young, got bored and wanted to live the bachelor lifestyle. He's always been a spoiled jerk with an entitlement complex amd figured he could have his cake and eat it too. 

 

This is what I think, too.  They lobbed the word "addiction" to the media to try to minimize what he did.  He knew exactly what he was doing and he could have stopped at any time if he respected his wife.  If he wanted to live a bachelor lifestyle, he had no business getting married, and he should have had the gumption to tell Jim Bob he didn't want to get married so young.  Of course, heaven forbid any of JB's children having an independent thought.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Gemma Violet