Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Chai]

People magazine! We the people exonorate Anna Duggar! Josh is a product of his parents

[Wellfleet]

Any guesses as to what Josh's "O" face looks like?

 

We could probably get a pretty good idea if someone got a photo of him eating - maybe that Donutburger from the fair they stopped at last Summer would do it? :>)

[cheatincheetos]

Oh, FakeJoshDugger, I think it is time you uploaded an avatar picture. Perhaps a certain mirror selfie would be appropriate?

"Over the clothes" Josh selfies only plz.

[SomePity1066]

We could probably get a pretty good idea if someone got a photo of him eating - maybe that Donutburger from the fair they stopped at last Summer would do it? :>)

Except for the times Josh was actively lobbying for the FRC, as in at the podium with a microphone in his face, I can't think of a time in the last few years when he wasn't pictured eating...

[cheatincheetos]

We could probably get a pretty good idea if someone got a photo of him eating - maybe that Donutburger from the fair they stopped at last Summer would do it? :>)

Edited August 22, 2015 by cheatincheetos

[Magoo]

I don't know if people are more shocked by the Ashley Madison admission than they are by the molestation admission. If you read back when the molestation story broke there were pages upon pages of people absolutely outraged and disgusted by what he admitted to doing. The disgust allso carried over into mainstream media. But this new scandal is something the general public feels like they can relate to on a more personal level. I imagine it is more palatable and acceptable to find your spouse or family member has cheated with a consensual adult than it is to picture them sexually abusing a young member of their own family. One is too much to bear - to think it could or would happen could to them. The other is bad, but something I imagine many have worried about, helped a friend through or even experienced at some point in their lives. Easier to come out with fingers pointed and a hearty laugh at Josh's expense over a disgustingly hypocritical affair. The other is no laughing matter under any circumstance.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Magoo

[whirlygirly]

Joe Smithson is a gunmaker. http://www.smithson-gunmaker.com/about.html

 

I think a big part of why there seems to be so much more outrage over this than over the molestations is that the people who defended him during the first scandal are feeling personally betrayed. I mean they've spent the last three months arguing that he'd made mistakes in the past but had repented and was now a good and Godly man, and now THIS? They must feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them.

[mimionthebeach]

Im not buying that Josh has a psychological problem. Not everyone who repeats certain behaviors is addicted, narcissistic, or stunted. Some are just assholes and feel entitled.

I think Josh wants sex without babies. I don't think Anna was failing to be there for him but I remember his face when she said 5 kids was a good start. There's no way he'd be able to persuade her to use birth control and it's not like they were able to have honest conversations about family size before they got married.

His sexual tastes, as described on his profile, are pretty vanilla (except the sexual obligation thing but we know where that comes from). Before the latest blessing Josh seemed pretty content with three kids. They had a financially comfortable lifestyle I think they enjoyed. Anna was always talking about getting pregnant again and more babies and more babies... it was driving ME nuts. I can see him wanting something simple and straightforward. Sex just for pleasure, the way we heathens enjoy it.

I'm not saying it's Anna's "fault". It's this fucked up Gothard shit. It's how they were both raised and hustled into marriage before they were mature enough to get a clue about what they wanted.

Josh is a jerk for cheating on Anna. No question. But it's no where near as big a deal as his molestation of his sisters and not as disgusting as his hypocrisy.

[mimionthebeach]

And a Judge, and a latex salesman!

I wonder what Josh claimed to have majored in at UofA.

Women's studies?

[CousinAmy]

What gets me about Josh and Anna was that their parents were raised in the real world - not sure of Anna's mother, though. But both fathers had jobs, decided where their families should live, and had some connections to people outside the family.

Then they set up these rules for their children, not even allowing them to have the same taste of freedom. Their system begins to crumble, as each generation is built on the ruins of the past. Will J&A's children have it as "good" as they did? Or will their lives continue to dissolve into the morass that is this madman-made cult?

[LilyoftheValley]

I think Josh wants sex without babies. I don't think Anna was failing to be there for him but I remember his face when she said 5 kids was a good start. There's no way he'd be able to persuade her to use birth control and it's not like they were able to have honest conversations about family size before they got married.

His sexual tastes, as described on his profile, are pretty vanilla (except the sexual obligation thing but we know where that comes from). Before the latest blessing Josh seemed pretty content with three kids. They had a financially comfortable lifestyle I think they enjoyed. Anna was always talking about getting pregnant again and more babies and more babies... it was driving ME nuts. I can see him wanting something simple and straightforward. Sex just for pleasure, the way we heathens enjoy it.

I'm not saying it's Anna's "fault". It's this fucked up Gothard shit. It's how they were both raised and hustled into marriage before they were mature enough to get a clue about what they wanted.

Josh is a jerk for cheating on Anna. No question. But it's no where near as big a deal as his molestation of his sisters and not as disgusting as his hypocrisy.

Yeah I don't think anything is mentally all that wrong with Josh (now).  He wants casual sex and his social group seriously frowns on that.  He clearly just wanted to go to college, get married at 30 and have 2 or 3 kids.  As to why everyone pressured him into something clearly not suited for him is asinine (oh right, God and stuff). 

[Skittl1321]

Unlike ALL the other Duggar children, Josh has had the freedom to do things in his life- because he got married early. So from your list, he could have done two of those things (heck, he could have gotten a divorce and then waited to get married older).  He CHOSE not to. 

 

He clearly just wanted to go to college, get married at 30 and have 2 or 3 kids.

 

I realize there is some level of choice to those stuck at home staying; but that choice is a lot less available than to the one who actually got out of the house! 

[Vermicious Knid]

Josh singing to Anna, was that The Loyalty Song? Entertainment Tonight dug up the video.

http://www.etonline.com/news/170466_flashback_josh_duggar_serenades_wife_annawith_loyalty_song_before_ashley_madison_scandal/

 

And then they just had to ask Dr Phil his opinion..

 

Using free web addresses and prepaid Visa cards wouldn't have entirely hidden his trail. The AP identified people in sensitive government position with their IP addresses. They may have used anonymous services but they signed on with government computers.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/065953e72e9649e0bc6efb69b06295ed/evidence-infidelities-spreads-online-wake-hack

 

If In Touch hadn't exposed Josh's molesting past TLC would probably be in the middle of filming the next season, Jessa's baby watch, an engagement party for Amy, following the Dillards on their mission (I think that would have happened anyway, they just moved it up). Josh definitely would have still lost his job, and likely moved back to AK. They would have filmed around him and he would just quietly disappear from the show, while Jim Bob would discretely find him a new job. There might even be a 'repentance' special, showing how he's rededicated his life to Jesus. Of course, without the notoriety probably no one would have bothered trawling through all that data specifically to out him.

[ChiCricket]

This is too funny. All of the public apology edits. A new day another apology version in the making perhaps? We'll see.

I was just watching The Soup and it made me laugh when the host said this:

"After his account was found on Ashley Madison, Josh Duggar posted an apology online for all his recent behavior.

However, it was revealed the apology was taken down and edited several times to take out specific references that were originally there.

Unfortunately Josh, the Internet is like an under age sibling. Once you put something personal of yours on it, it doesn't forget." Hee

Edited August 22, 2015 by ChiCricket

[Micks Picks]

Josh was actually rewarded for his molestation.  He made several confessions in 2002-2004 and was taken on the campaign trail with his dad, I'm sure to get him out the house and temptation.  He met a lot of people, made calls, traveled to events, got the idea he was a big shot.  True Daddy lost, in good part because when he went to primarily women't evens to present his platform with other candidates, he did not talk to them, he brought his rug rats out to sing to them.  Obviously the women weren't good enough for him to explain his platform to.  Oh, Josh learned a lot and got such a high opinion of himself he became Smugger.  It wasn't until after the losing campaign that they shipped him off for a few months.  I saw his fake FB post and from the few pix I looked at, they were surely sexy gals in sexy poses.  Even after he married and before DC he joined AM in Arkansas and then again in DC.  He didn't want a bunch of kids.  He liked the few he had.  Anna did nothing but yap about babies.  They may stay together but he will never be a good husband.  Never.  And that's if he takes the useless Jesus thing out of the equation.  He is what he is.

[Wellfleet]

I wonder how he came up with that name.  Harry Johnson could have been good.  Hugh Johnson--all kinds of "johnson" names, but "Joe Smithson"? He couldn't find something sexy like Alexander Masters, or Jonathan Steele? 

 

Moe Lester? Rod Steele? Or in Josh's situation, Russell Epsom Grubb, or Roland Butter, might be appropriate... LOL.

[Rancide]

Some are speculating whether or not josh actually had sex with anyone, I honestly don't know... 

 

I honestly don't care.  If you live in a world where front-hugs and kneecaps are reserved for the sanctity of marriage, it doesn't take actual intercourse to make you an unfaithful, hypocritical cheater.  I'd honestly prefer we not ever learn the details.  Because... Josh.  ICK.

[kokapetl]

I honestly don't care. If you live in a world where front-hugs and kneecaps are reserved for the sanctity of marriage, it doesn't take actual intercourse to make you an unfaithful, hypocritical cheater. I'd honestly prefer we not ever learn the details. Because... Josh. ICK.

The paid membership on a "I wanna cheat on my spouse" website, for at least two years, and up until May 2015 would be incredibly hurtful and humiliating to Anna itself, regardless of wether or not he got results.

[Defrauder]

Josh has 9 brothers right?  We know about JOE SmithSON could there be more SmithSON's out there?

[blubld43]

even potentially his children in danger if Anna contracted a std before giving birth to any one of them.

 

And since Anna gives birth at home, irreparable damage might be done before anyone discovers it.  What an asshat.

[Oldernowiser]

Hell, forget JimBob losing his mind. Michelle has been a woman on the verge since her "season of life" ended and she's probably hormonally in severe withdrawal in about six ways. Add in the loss of her adoring fan base and the attention she craves...she may neuter Josh with a curling iron.

[Defrauder]

I'm sorry, but Josh is really, really smart. He said so himself on OKC.

I am curious, though. Does anyone know if the Duggars' brand of fundie is the type that likes to teach believers in other faiths (like Mormons) the "errors of their ways"? If he knows anything about Mormonism/Joseph Smith, I would imagine its for a reason like this.

Edited to add quotation marks because I don't personally believe people who are religious are erring.

Not  long ago either Deryck or Bin went on some kind of self righteous spiel about correcting his Catholic friends from their 'deadly errors'.  So yeah it's possible that Josh knew of the Joseph Smith Mormon but can't imagine why he'd want to use that name with a 'son' added on the end unless he thinks Mormons are into strippers or something?

[Defrauder]

It's kind of sad that Anna's public address letter to the molestation reveal said that Josh turned out to be a gentleman who knew how to 'treat a girl right'.  I feel badly for Anna but worse for her children.  Anna is a grown woman, her children are her responsibility to protect.  Is she too brainwashed to protect them effectively?  Probably.  

[Fuzzysox]

People magazine! We the people exonorate Anna Duggar! Josh is a product of his parents

All that NIKE his parents made him endure just completely failed.  

[Churchhoney]

Except for the times Josh was actively lobbying for the FRC, as in at the podium with a microphone in his face, I can't think of a time in the last few years when he wasn't pictured eating...

 

The FRC hot-mic pics might be orgasm faces as well. Cause I expect self-righteous ranting and irrational hatred of others' sexuality get him off pretty successfully too. 

[3girlsforus]

I know a lot of people hope that Anna gets secular counseling and I understand the thought behind that but I hope she gets Christian counseling. I don't mean Gothard/Fundie counseling. I mean real counseling from a Christian. There are many actually trained, with real degrees etc counselors out there who are also Christians. Personally I think that's the only chance someone has to get through to her. If she sits in front a person she knows has no religious beliefs and they tell her things against her upbringing she's going to chalk it up to a difference in worldview. But if a Christian says the same things she might be open to hear it. She still might not be able to but I think it's the only chance. 

[mbutterfly]

I know a lot of people hope that Anna gets secular counseling and I understand the thought behind that but I hope she gets Christian counseling. I don't mean Gothard/Fundie counseling. I mean real counseling from a Christian. There are many actually trained, with real degrees etc counselors out there who are also Christians. Personally I think that's the only chance someone has to get through to her. If she sits in front a person she knows has no religious beliefs and they tell her things against her upbringing she's going to chalk it up to a difference in worldview. But if a Christian says the same things she might be open to hear it. She still might not be able to but I think it's the only chance. 

I totally agree. There are many people available who have doctorates in counseling and many are also ordained pastors in main line churches. I have been to one myself when I was a very young widow. 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

A bit of context for some recent mod notes:

1. We have asked you guys not to speculate on whether Josh has a "real" addiction to sex, porn, Jesus, tater tots, etc. Yes, there have been circumstances where a celebrity involved in a scandal has (somewhat implausibly) claimed addiction as a way to minimize the damage. But none of us knows what is going on in Josh's head. You don't have to like him. You don't have to believe any version of his apologies. What we are asking is that you don't play arm chair psychiatrist. ESPECIALLY when you assert your opinions as fact.

The bigger issue with this kind of topic, is that it tends to devolve into a more general discussion about the nature of addictions, including people's views on whether addiction is real, just an excuse for bad behavior, just a matter of willpower, etc. Mqny members of this community have direct experience with addiction, whether personally or through family or friends. It's divisive and dismissive and beyond the scope of a TV board to go down those roads. Once again, your mods are asking you to please self edit.

2. On a similar note, please stop speculating about Anna's sexual activities and what she does or doesn't do with her husband in the privacy of her home. It's gross, irrelevant and just adds to the implicit idea that this is about her and not him.

[GinnyM]

Some people, and not just fundie types, consider looking at porn being unfaithful to your spouse. I haven't been studying this situation, but has anyone said there was an actual relationship?

Given how repressed these people are - or try to be - we have to understand their definitions of things might not match everyone's.

They think hugging your family is wrong (although we now see why they think that) so how can we trust their definition of cheating and even molestation is the same as ours?

[JennyMominFL]

I totally agree. There are many people available who have doctorates in counseling and many are also ordained pastors in main line churches. I have been to one myself when I was a very young widow. 

The thing is, they seem to only believe that people like them are real Christians.  Those counselers better not be Catholic, Or Lutheran or Mormon, or any of the other 100 or so Christian churches that are not Christian enough for them.

Edited August 22, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[3girlsforus]

The thing is, they seem to only believe that people like them are real Christians.  Those counselors better not be Catholic, Or Lutheran or Mormon, or any of the other 100 or so Christian churches that are not Christian enough for them.

 

True but since Anna has siblings who are no longer in the cult I'm hoping she might be more willing to listen to a non-Gothardite.

[Julia]

This is posted on the home page of Josh and Anna's family website (shorter Kirk Cameron: don't be on my side, pls, ktxbai)

[kathe5133]

Ok. Lately I have exclaimed "what is wrong with this world". I have my answer. The film above.

and "only forgotten son" LOL!

Edited August 22, 2015 by kathe5133

[Featherhat]

I totally agree. There are many people available who have doctorates in counseling and many are also ordained pastors in main line churches. I have been to one myself when I was a very young widow

Yes I saw one of those, years ago. She had secular accreditations from reputable bodies/institutions and was also a member of reputable Christian organisations (the kind that only accept people who have had thorough training) but offered an additional knowledge or discussion of your faith from the POV of someone who shares it. She was great, didn’t hesitate to recommend I see a Dr when necessary or use doctrine to preach at me but it was a good thing to know that she understood when I was a confused 20 year old Christian. Not all counsellors are created equal but a reputable Christian one can be as good as a completely secular one for Anna. Unfortunately that’s just as unlikely as her getting a good secular therapist.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Featherhat

[NextIteration]

Allow me to clarify my personal use of the word "secular" as applied to therapy for Anna.  A fully accredited Christian therapist is fine, as long as they are trained in all manner of therapeutic doctrine.  My point was to make a distinction from a Gothard or any doctrinaire therapist that would just keep heaping the nonsense of the cult back on her.  Anna has no blame in this situation - it is all on Josh, and she needs someone to validate that for her, objectively, while helping her through making choices available to her.

Edited August 23, 2015 by NextIteration

[Fuzzysox]

Throughout this "scandal" all I could think of is that Josh would have spun his issues into a ministry! I know it's crazy but I watched a krazy reality show a couple of years ago called Hookers For Jesus. An ex-hooker reforms herself by going back to church where she was raised and has redeemed herself. I would have thought Josh wanted to "minister" to these poor woman who have lost their way away from The Lord.

 

If you want to read about Annie's life it's really interesting....

 

http://www.hookersforjesus.net/annies-story/

Edited August 22, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[OhioMom]

I'm not sure where this would go so totally cool to move or delete if necessary.

Another Christian family of YouTube notoriety, Sam and Nia, has had his Ashley Madison account exposed. Recently they made the news when a pregnancy test video went viral that has been questioned for its authenticity.

I'm sure this is just the beginning.

Speaking of that pregnancy test...I've never seen one like that before, so looked it up online.  The very prominent line that you can see on the test by the letter T s "always" there (as a kind of control, as in, the test is working), the second line (if positive) is supposed to appear over the "C".  I don't see a line over the C, so maybe the test itself wasn't even positive.  Or maybe my eyes are going.  Going back on topic now.....

[JoanArc]

 

Lured by the almighty dollar, and with a skewed fairytale view of love, she was drawn toward the seductive whispers and open arms of the sex industry. Greed consumed her, the money an easy remedy to numb her brokenness, so she began a new life with a new name–Fallen. Settling under the lights of glamorous Las Vegas, she became one of the most sought-after high-class escorts, fielding calls from celebrities, musicians, politicians, and other men with endless supplies of cash.

Change she to he, whoring to famewhoring, and Vegas to DC, and it's Josh's life. He even has a pimp - Jim Bob.

[Defrauder]

Josh is very ambitious.  He's not just your average garden variety hypocrite, no, he's the biggest hypocrite EVER.  Gotta be the very best at something I guess.

[Fuzzysox]

Change she to he, whoring to famewhoring, and Vegas to DC, and it's Josh's life. He even has a pimp - Jim Bob.

Nailed it! Hilarious!!

[EarlGreyTea]

Throughout this "scandal" all I could think of is that Josh would have spun his issues into a ministry! I know it's crazy but I watched a krazy reality show a couple of years ago called Hooker For Jesus. An ex-hooker reforms herself by going back to church where she was raised and has redeemed herself. I would have thought Josh wanted to "minister" to these poor woman who have lost their way away from The Lord.

 

If you want to read about Annie's life it's really interesting....

 

http://www.hookersforjesus.net/annies-story/

 

Would be a nice redemption arc, but it seems like Josh would first need self-awareness, humility, humor, and the ability to express himself well.

[sleekandchic]

Some people, and not just fundie types, consider looking at porn being unfaithful to your spouse. I haven't been studying this situation, but has anyone said there was an actual relationship?

Given how repressed these people are - or try to be - we have to understand their definitions of things might not match everyone's.

They think hugging your family is wrong (although we now see why they think that) so how can we trust their definition of cheating and even molestation is the same as ours?

Who knows with the Duggars? But I've personally concluded that Josh has had extramarital sex: (1) his re-re-revised mea culpa no longer mentions his addiction to porn at all. I think that deletion removes the ambiguity of porn = unfaithful, and speaks to an admittance of true, physical, real-life infidelity.

(2)...and this one carries more weight with me: Josh would not have opened accounts on Ashley Madison unless he was actively looking to hook up. The net has a quadrillion million two-hundred-fifty gazillion pornsites for every predilection imaginable (and some unimaginable too). Ashley Madison isnt for the porn-obsessed.

Now, I could believe that Josh came across a link to AM on one of his many porn-crawls, but that doesn't explain his signing up, two separate times. And that extra $250 guarantee he opted for shows Josh had big dreams.

[Tabbygirl521]

This is posted on the home page of Josh and Anna's family website (shorter Kirk Cameron: don't be on my side, pls,

This just infuriates me. I could rail for days, but won't. Just...all this amounts to, is ruling and controlling through fear alone. IMO following the commandments faithfully would have one live in a way that honors and respects oneself and others, and show gratitude for whoever/whatever was kind enough to give us life and the world we share. But no. Instead, you had best never piss off this invasive entity who won't even let you have your own thoughts to yourself. Or fry in hell for eternity. Makes God sound like the meanest, pettiest old bitch around. This does, however, remind me to be grateful that my mom steered us to a loving and progressive Episcopal church.

I guess I did kind of rail for days. I just so deeply loathe these MANmade systems for controlling other people. How many little kids have nightmares or wet their pants at night, because they had a Bad Thought that day, and now their "loving" God is going to fry them in hell?

[Defrauder]

This is posted on the home page of Josh and Anna's family website (shorter Kirk Cameron: don't be on my side, pls, ktxbai)

No wonder the Duggars are so screwed up.  They believe that they can do whatever they want and it's all good because they believe!  Share the good news!  What a corrupt system they follow.  Forget about being a moral atheist who doesn't lie, cheat, steal or commit adultery because they feel it's wrong - nope the corrupt judge doesn't want to hear from them, the corrupt judge just wants someone to believe!  Share the good news everyone! 

[sandyskyblue]

I know a lot of people hope that Anna gets secular counseling and I understand the thought behind that but I hope she gets Christian counseling. I don't mean Gothard/Fundie counseling. I mean real counseling from a Christian. There are many actually trained, with real degrees etc counselors out there who are also Christians. Personally I think that's the only chance someone has to get through to her. If she sits in front a person she knows has no religious beliefs and they tell her things against her upbringing she's going to chalk it up to a difference in worldview. But if a Christian says the same things she might be open to hear it. She still might not be able to but I think it's the only chance. 

I seem to recall that the Duggars do not believe in any counseling of any type....unfortunately, I highly doubt Anna will get any sort of counseling at all...IIRC, the only 'counseling' Josh received after his confession of molesting his sisters and the babysitter was a stern talk from that cop who turned out to be into porn and then Josh did drywall work....some 'counseling', eh?  Anna will be encouraged to pray, that's all....JMO

[JoanArc]

http://www.tmz.com/2015/08/22/josh-duggar-okcupid-profile-stolen-picture/

 

 

Matthew says he's already lost a DJ gig because the club felt he was part of the sex scandal. He feels this is somehow defamation of character, and he's considering his legal options.

I hope he sues Josh. Pan fry that catfish!

[Liz Tudor]

Liz Tudor - Due you mean the Smithsonian Museum NH where they re-staged what the moon landing looked like and not faked it? Just wondering because my nephew is one of the nuts who thinks the moon landing was faked in Arizona and is a conspiracy.

NEGirl, I was just being a snarky sarcastipuss. Since the Duggars are hard-over creationists, I was just poking fun about the dinosaur/human exhibits at the museum of natural history (which the creationism museum in KY actually features...for REALZ). Going along with their ignorance, I added on the bit about Air & Space having the set of the "fake" moon landing. For those of us who don't wear foil hats, they have a representation of the actual moon landing. Your nephew wouldn't buy into it. Sorry for any confusion!

[BitterApple]

I'm a little confused, Josh admitted in his first statement that he had an addiction, so why is that not eligible for discussion?

[LilyoftheValley]

I hope (too optimistically I know) that this will be a wake-up call to the Duggars to actually listen to what each of their children want on an individual level.  How many friggin times did Josh say that he wanted to be a lawyer and have 2 or 3 kids????  I know he said it many times on camera so he must have said it many more times off camera.  Look Duggars, I get that you are "in the right" when it comes to Jebus and God and stuff, but your lifestyle is very extreme.  Josh made it very clear that he needed to grow up and mature before he got married.  Sure, he did not use those words because he thought himself mature already, but he obviously knew something about himself that his parents were not picking up on at all.  If you want to avoid another scandal then instead of doubling-down on reading the bible to your kids, consider listening to them on an individual level.  

Edited August 22, 2015 by LilyoftheValley

[Gemma Violet]

Often times evangelical and fundamentalists believe that every challenge and problem can be solved by God through prayer. So to turn to secular counseling would be to say that God cannot heal or handle a problem. Additionally, many like the Duggars believe that issues or disorders that would require counseling are revelations of character flaws and a lack of a true relationship with God. To admit those things would mean admitting those flaws.

 

And yet most of them have no problem using the services of medical doctors, dentists, etc., but using a psychologist is a no-no, apparently.