Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Marigold]

Michelle and Jim Bob are dopes and obviously handled the molestation thing wrong. We know all about them and that wacko Gothard stuff. 

But plenty of people turn out to be good people with awful parents and vice versa.

 

I think josh is just a special kind of jack ass. At some point you gotta make your own way in the world. He moved to DC and started a new chapter of his life. And what did he do? Well...seems Josh made some hot and spicy choices...

I'm sympathetic to his upbringing to a certain degree. At some point, Josh is a douchebag because he chose to be. 

 

And now Josh needs to straighten this out for himself. Like a man with four kids and a wife (who actually loves him). He needs to find his own counseling, deal with his issues/addictions/problems and find his own way through the nightmare he created. 

 

I really wish Jim Bob and Michelle would back off. Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom really hard to knock some sense into ya. They should leave him alone...shun him...and let him make his own decisions. 

I think Jim Bob and Michelle should support Anna ...but even that needs to be pulled back.  She is 27.  She is a big girl. She needs to figure this out on her own. They treat her like she is 16. Anna is not stupid and she will be fine no matter how she chooses to handle her husband. 

 

So much for Michelle and her "leave and cleave, buddy" statement she made so long ago. 

[zenme]

It can be said for everyone that our experiences and parenting is what shape who we are.  People's personalities and temperaments contribute to those experiences, as well.  Josh always knew what he was doing was wrong.  We make choices in life.  Yes.  His parents messed up by covering for him, and not getting him proper treatment--although I feel they believed they were doing right by him.  As an adult, it's Josh's responsibility to make necessary changes in his life and address his issues. 

 

ETA: Marigold, I agree with you. (I was typing while you were posting.)

Edited August 22, 2015 by zenme

[springtime]

Now that my initial surprise, revulsion and shock of Josh's admission has settled down, I think I'm more able to react in a less emotional manner. Now I can stick out my neck about my thoughts and anticipate that it will be chopped off a bit, and that's okay too.

 

I'm just going to put it out there. I really can't blame Josh entirely for what he turned into. It's not his fault that he happened to have life's misfortune of being the firstborn child of nineteen. People who have three, four or more children know that the firstborn is treated differently. They are expected to be perfect in every way. Parents are usually harder on firstborns than subsequent children. New parents are venturing into a unknown territory and want to do everything the right way according to what they 'think' is the right way to raise a child. Many firstborn kids are lectured too much, disciplined too hard, overprotected and expected to be role models and responsible for their younger siblings. So many issues like anxiety, obsessive-compulsive traits and anger are more likely to remain with a firstborn child and linger into adulthood.

 

When Josh was only two years old, Michelle gave birth to the twins Jana and John-David. (A two year old is still a baby in my book) Suddenly Josh's 'babyhood' was removed and replaced by two infants. By the time Josh was five years old, he had FIVE siblings. At the very tender and impressionable age of five, Josh was already competing for the attention of his parents with five other siblings. I'm pretty sure Michelle and Jim Bob gave Josh a lot of responsibilities even at that young age. Josh was their first and their 'model child' and the experiment started with him. All the fundamentalist stringency applied to Josh being the firstborn and it was applied to the max. Guilt and shame was used to prevent Josh from doing anything they thought was 'wrong' or 'improper'.  Should we really be surprised and shocked that Josh developed unnatural and unacceptable sexual behaviors? I think it was inevitable and unavoidable considering the fact that no matter what, Josh was only a normal human little boy that never had the chance to reach adulthood totally unscathed emotionally.

Between Josh and the twins, Michelle had her life defining miscarriage - Just think of her ever changing emotional state when Josh was very young!

[Chai]

The only reason this is news is because JB and M signed up to do reality tv with TLC. Otherwise we would have no idea who Josh Duggar is. So before they go blaming him, they need to look in the mirror.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Yup.  One was for AR and one was for DC.  When they leak more tomorrow, it will be interesting to see who he claimed to be in AR vs DC.

Ok, so I'm out of the loop. What more will be leaked tomorrow and who is the "they" leaking it?

[sometimesy]

Josh, get away from your parents. Is JB the one negotiating the interview (with a cut of course?) Josh, fix and sell your house. Move away. Get a lawyer and get your money from JB. Pull a Jessa ('you don't want us to elope'). Stay silent unless you have a very skilled PR team and no influence from your father. That Fox interview was a mess!

[Maharincess]

Yeah his profile reads like a sad list of broken dreams. He should've chosen the alias, Art Vandelay, occupation, importer/exporter.

He should have said he was a latex salesman for Vandelay Industries.

[Churchhoney]

He should have said he was a latex salesman for Vandelay Industries.

 

Well, he has kind of scrambled away from his crap-filled toilet with his pants around his ankles and fallen on his face in front of everybody. And he is unemployed.

 

 

"And you wanna be my latex salesman."

Edited August 22, 2015 by Churchhoney

[JenCarroll]

  

I know right.  Maybe he's jealous of Joseph or something or he was just too dumb and lazy to come up with something other than Joe SmithSON.  Poor Joseph, his brother.

He forgot one of his brothers was named Joseph...

[Chaos Theory]

I know everyone is waiting for one of the women to come forward but would you admit publicly that you slept with that? i wouldn't.

It depends....can you prove it? Do you get your own reality TV program out of it? That TLC money is one hell of a motivator..

[BitterApple]

He should have said he was a latex salesman for Vandelay Industries.

But wait, would Joshie be an importer or exporter? Decisions, decisions...

[LilyoftheValley]

Regarding the twitter we suspect is Josh, that guy uses the F word a lot.  

[Marigold]

Just waiting for the exotic dancers or adult stars to step forward and give their story.

 

Obviously that is why Josh is so exhausted all the time,  It's a lot of work to live a double life with FOUR kids, a wife and a reality show. And tour around telling everyone else what they are doing wrong in life. 

 

Remember when Anna came crashing in the door when Josh was sleeping and she had her pregnancy test in her hand? Josh truly looked disoriented, exhausted and almost hung over. Well...probably not hung over on alcohol.  He was on some sexed up episode the night before...caught him a bit off guard. I noticed that for a person who grew up in front of the cameras, he looked really uncomfortable and odd in that clip. It gave me an odd feeling...he didn't look right to me. 

Guilt and exhaustion will do that to ya...maybe hadn't showered either. (yuck)

Edited August 22, 2015 by Marigold

[Defrauder]

Maybe Anna's preaching about letting the Lord choose her mate for her is backfiring.  She totally trusted God to pick out her husband  and now her prince charming has turned into the biggest toad EVER.  Maybe it's a wake up call to those in her cult - use your own judgement and free will that you have to make the best determination and make God proud you did the best job YOU could do.  Even if it turned out bad at least Anna could say that she really tried to use her God given intellect and instincts to make the right choice.  Now it's all God's fault so they'll just pray to him to fix it.

[Chaos Theory]

Maybe Anna should stop letting God make her choices for her....as we all know God has a wicked sense of humor.

[Defrauder]

Love this. Wicked sense of humor for sure.

[sandyskyblue]

Maybe Anna's preaching about letting the Lord choose her mate for her is backfiring.  She totally trusted God to pick out her husband  and now her prince charming has turned into the biggest toad EVER.  Maybe it's a wake up call to those in her cult - use your own judgement and free will that you have to make the best determination and make God proud you did the best job YOU could do.  Even if it turned out bad at least Anna could say that she really tried to use her God given intellect and instincts to make the right choice.  Now it's all God's fault so they'll just pray to him to fix it.

While I agree with this in theory, the women in this cult are unable to think for themselves, I believe they have no free will at all...growing up, they are told what to do by their father and then, their husband takes over once they get married.....we cannot understand how oppressed they are because it is so ingrained in them....like nc socialworker said yesterday, the wives are hostages (and so are the kids, IMO) in this cult, under the total control of their fathers and husbands...and while I understand that we on here keep throwing out suggestions for Anna to help her, it is not going to happen the way we think it should, and like it would in our world....

[Foghorn Leghorn]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

[LilyoftheValley]

Maybe Anna should stop letting God make her choices for her....as we all know God has a wicked sense of humor.

I wouldn't let the God of the bible choose what I am going to eat for breakfast, much less my partner for the rest of my life.  

[JennyMominFL]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

They haven't really been outed that way though, have they. There is not some list of names. There is a database which can  be searched by email address. So basically you  need to know someones email address and then search them.

That's how it works, right? 

[marleyfan]

I have a theory about the repeated postings/removals from Josh yesterday. I think somewhere between the first and the third one, JB was clutching Josh by the throat, yelling "is there ANYTHING more we need to know??? Do you have ANYTHING else you need to drop?" Those releases just gave me the vibe that the "stuff" flying around wasn't a total-all-at-once dump. I'm not sure anyone (but Josh) knew the whole truth when the first one came out .

Sorry, but I still don't know how to copy and paste on Kindle....I wonder if the next ANYTHING is going to be a paternity suit against Josh. Add that to the molestation case,JimBoob will probably have a coronary.

Edited August 22, 2015 by marleyfan

[Quof]

Don't forget that YouTube "star", shining example of Christianity, Sam Star.

[Churchhoney]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

 

Well, the 37 million are in many many countries, so that accounts for some of it. And a whole lot of people probably successfully used pseudonyms. (or at least successfully so far) Plus, I think most celebrities don't have to search very hard for people to have affairs with.

 

I'm sure somebody else will turn up, though. Josh was a pretty obvious search target.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Anne Elk]

Whatever happened to "The Lord helps those who help themselves"? I know it's not in the Bible, but they seem happy enough to believe it when it comes to poor people who are unemployed.

 

With different parents, Josh is an ordinary conservative guy. The kind who goes to State U, joins a frat and the College Republicans, sows his wild oats for a few years, and then settles down with a nice Christian girl, has 2 or 3 kids, and makes partner at his law firm. That's the guy Josh wants to be. Instead he's stuck in this freak show family, having to follow a religion where not smiling all the time is considered sinning against God. Worst of all, he's too famous to be able to anonymously cheat, but not famous enough to be able to do it openly and get away with it. 

[LilyoftheValley]

They haven't really been outed that way though, have they. There is not some list of names. There is a database which can  be searched by email address. So basically you  need to know someones email address and then search them.

That's how it works, right? 

They are getting the names from the credit card information, actually.  Josh ain't stupid; he used a fake name and alter ego Joe Smithson email address.  The thing that got him was his credit card.  I am sure that more people will be found but the data dump requires a tor server and I do not believe it is searchable.  Someone had to go looking for his name.  Soon I am sure that there will be a website will ways to easily search.  I assume too that with the next dump there will be private messages and photos.  

[Dejana]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

 

There are 37 million accounts and we know Josh had two, so the same is probably true of other members having multiple accounts. Another Christian Youtube star has been busted and I've heard of a Scottish politician who says her info was stolen to open the account. I would guess most superstars have better ways to cheat, even online (athletes are known to be fond of Instagram/Twitter direct messaging) and other minor celebrities who may have been on the site were probably smart enough to buy disposable credit cards and keep their real names out of it.

[Missy Vixen]

Here's a dumb question.

 

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

 

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I just read this on FB and had to share!  

 

I know everybody is laughing about this Josh Duggar story. Oh, a DUGGAR on Ashley Madison, it's so rich! I wish more people would talk about Anna. I normally keep things light on Facebook, but let's talk about Anna. Let me tell you: Anna Duggar is in the worst position she could possibly be in right now. Anna Duggar was crippled by her parents by receiving no education, having no work experience (or life experience, for that matter) and then was shackled to this loser because his family was famous in their religious circle. Anna Duggar was taught that her sole purpose in life, the most meaningful thing she could do, was to be chaste and proper, a devout wife, and a mother. Anna Duggar did that! Anna Duggar followed the rules that were imposed on her from the get-go and this is what she got in reward- a husband who she found out, in the span of 6 months, not only molested his own sisters, but was unfaithful to her in the most humiliating way possible. While she was fulfilling her "duty" of providing him with four children and raising them. She lived up to the standard that men set for her of being chaste and Godly and in return, the man who demanded this of her sought women who were the opposite. "Be this," they told her. She was. It wasn't enough.
What is Anna Duggar supposed to do? She can't divorce because the religious environment she was brought up would blame her and ostracize her for it. Even if she would risk that, she has no education and no work experience to fall back on, so how does she support her kids? From where could she summon the ability to turn her back on everything she ever held to be sacred and safe? Her beliefs, the very thing she would turn to for comfort in this kind of crisis, are the VERY REASON she is in this predicament in the first place. How can she reconcile this? Her parents have utterly, utterly failed her. Think of this: somewhere, Anna Duggar is sitting in prayer, praying not for the strength to get out and stand on her own, but for the strength to stand by this man she is unfortunately married to. To lower herself so that he may rise up on her back.

As a mother of daughters, this makes me ill. Parents, WE MUST DO BETTER BY OUR DAUGHTERS. Boys, men, are born with power. Girls have to command it for themselves. They aren't given it. They assume it and take it. But you have to teach them to do it, that they can do it. We HAVE to teach our daughters that they are not beholden to men like this. That they don't have to marry a man their father deems "acceptable" and then stay married to that man long, long after he proved himself UNACCEPTABLE. Educate them. Empower them. Give them the tools they need to survive, on their own if they must. Josh Duggar should be cowering in fear of Anna Duggar right now. Cowering. He isn't, but he should be. He should be quaking in fear that the house might fall down around them if he's in the same room as she. Please, instill your daughters with the resolve to make a man cower if he must. To say "I don't deserve this, and my children don't deserve this." I wish someone had ever, just once, told Anna she was capable of this. That she knew she is. As for my girls, I'll raise them to think they breathe fire. 

[Churchhoney]

Here's a dumb question.

 

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

 

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

 

Well, what I've gathered from my own family is that some people are just born with a constellation of traits that give them the potential to be bulletproof -- low empathy, high will to power, narcissism and so on. And if you've got a certain combination of traits and are born in the right position -- and first kid often is the right position, it seems -- you can start exercising those traits to achieve success very quickly, and repeatedly, and the success reinforces those traits and encourages you to rely on them. It's a nature-environment perfect storm, I suspect. ... Meanwhile, other people get the perfect storm going the other way.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Joe Jitsu913]

Here's a dumb question.

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

Oh trust me, I think Jessa has low self-esteem. She just hides it better than most by her arrogance and bitchiness.

Josh thinks he's truly something special because he's the first born son of 19!!!!1111!!! kids. As if that's something to be proud of. He inherited his ego from dear old Daddy Duggar (and Michelle). He's white, male and Christian. Three things that matter most in Gothard's world.

[Darknight]

I know a lot of people hope that Anna gets secular counseling and I understand the thought behind that but I hope she gets Christian counseling. I don't mean Gothard/Fundie counseling. I mean real counseling from a Christian. There are many actually trained, with real degrees etc counselors out there who are also Christians. Personally I think that's the only chance someone has to get through to her. If she sits in front a person she knows has no religious beliefs and they tell her things against her upbringing she's going to chalk it up to a difference in worldview. But if a Christian says the same things she might be open to hear it. She still might not be able to but I think it's the only chance.

But being a christian and a cult is two different things. A lot if christians don't believe in that ati bullshit.

[LilyoftheValley]

Here's a dumb question.

 

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

 

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

Josh Duggar simply has no character.  I am with you on wondering how it can be that a person can reach the age of 27 without developing any character at all.  This is the problem with the Duggar's lazy-ass parenting style of just going to the bible: it churns out people with no real character.  Sure, you get people who obey a bunch of arbitrary rules, but you will never get a person who stops to think about the ethics of what they are doing.  This is the problem with raising a child on biblical principles.  Josh now thinks that adultery and child molestation are just as bad as one of his sisters wearing a mini-skirt, or having premarital sex with a consenting partner out of wedlock.  Because his exposure to "ethics" was just a bunch of arbitrarily classified commands, he does not have the ability to distinguish between actions which are "a little naughty and hurt no one" and those which are "heinous and hurt others".   

[Darknight]

I was thinking about this answer on Josh's OKCupid profile:

Q: Do you feel there are any circumstances where a person is obligated to have sex with you? A: Yes

I have no doubt that Josh believes that, and that it is a central part of Gothard's marital teachings, but who would answer that question like that? I always got the impression that Josh think's he's much more worldly and in-the-know than his parents, but this is such a strange and tone-deaf response to the question that it really surprised me. This is the profile of a guy who just wants to get laid -- not a guy looking for a long-term partner who shares his belief system. I can't imagine a more effective woman-repellant.

ETA: I wonder if he thinks it's "macho" to say that, and maybe that is what "real men" believe -- men who aren't "whipped" by feminazis.

Josh needs a side piece that's going to take control and tell him to piss off when she doesn't want it

[Fuzzysox]

Maybe Anna should stop letting God make her choices for her....as we all know God has a wicked sense of humor.

but,but, but God helped her find the man who would take out her garbage.

[Chaos Theory]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

To be honest I don't care if some jackass cheats on his wife. It's not my business. What makes Josh different is he falls into two categories. 1: Previous sex scandal was just beginning to die down. 2: He is widely known to lecture on "Family Values". Those two categories alone make Josh fair game in any and all scandals involving sex, drugs, and politics.

As for the 37 million others most will fall into the "none of my business or concern". Unless one of them is Donald Trump or some religious or political ass screaming about immorality of others while doing shit like this. It's none of my business. *

*Chaos Theory might change her mind if one of the subscribers are in any way entertaining to her.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Ilovemylabs]

For whatever little it's worth, I think some children are born to the wrong parents. Under other circumstances, I think Josh could have been a very different person. Under the circumstances he had, with the influences he had, he turned out to be Josh. As far as we know, none of his other siblings have become Josh, though, so I think it was a combination of who he was born and how he was raised. It's (vaguely) possible that the child Jim Bob and Michelle should have had first is out there somewhere destroying his life because he grew up isolated and there wasn't enough structure and discipline in his life.

What an interesting theory!

[JoanArc]

 

Josh Duggar simply has no character.  I am with you on wondering how it can be that a person can reach the age of 27 without developing any character at all.  This is the problem with the Duggar's lazy-ass parenting style of just going to the bible: it churns out people with no real character.

STFU, he has 49 character qualities. FOURTY NINE!

 

There was a checklist, and everything....

[Cherrio]

I have a theory about the repeated postings/removals from Josh yesterday. I think somewhere between the first and the third one, JB was clutching Josh by the throat, yelling "is there ANYTHING more we need to know??? Do you have ANYTHING else you need to drop?" Those releases just gave me the vibe that the "stuff" flying around wasn't a total-all-at-once dump. I'm not sure anyone (but Josh) knew the whole truth when the first one came out .

Sorry, but I still don't know how to copy and paste on Kindle....I wonder if the next ANYTHING is going to be a paternity suit against Josh. Add that to the molestation case,JimBoob will probably have a coronary.

Especially if Josh managed to have 20 kids from fooling around and beat out Jim Bob.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Oh, FakeJoshDugger, I think it is time you uploaded an avatar picture. Perhaps a certain mirror selfie would be appropriate?

A mirror selfie? Maybe just a pink hat!

Edited August 22, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[carrps]

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????

 

(Oh, right, that's about what Josh could pull on AM.  I wonder if that was his "guaranteed affair".)

 

(OT, I hate clowns.)

What I find creepy is that the woman in red and white looks so much like Michelle. Yuck.

[Skittl1321]

That Facebook post going around seems to have missed the part where Anna knew about the molestations before the marriage.

Since we know courtships can be broken, I think she got into this to save him.

I do feel awful for her and do imagine she feels trapped, but I don't think she's quite as helpless as being presented.

[Ilovemylabs]

They haven't really been outed that way though, have they. There is not some list of names. There is a database which can  be searched by email address. So basically you  need to know someones email address and then search them.

That's how it works, right? 

A lot of the email addresses ending in .mil (military) or .gov (government).  Some were even sent from White House (doesn't mean the prez was involved...just someone there).  No names yet, but I bet they will be coming out.

[Cherrio]

"I am with you on wondering how it can be that a person can reach the age of 27 without developing any character at all."

 

Because he was raised by parents who have no character and are ignorant. The list is endless as to why.   By the time all of them are exposed for what they truly are, there will be a 1500 page book called Duggar Dung. Of course there will be many revisions to keep adding more.

[3girlsforus]

But being a christian and a cult is two different things. A lot if christians don't believe in that ati bullshit.

 

Exactly. I am one of those Christians who doesn't believe in all this ATI bullshit. They've totally redefined Christianity. But I still think that a non-ATI Christian counselor could be the key to get Anna to really evaluate her situation. I've seen the effect when these legalistic fundamentalists meet Christians who don't define their faith by their rules. The person is presented with a person who has a deep faith and passion for the Lord without making 'look what I did' checklists. It can really cause the legalistic to question the foundation of the faith. I absolutely  want Anna to dump Josh on his doughy butt. However, even more than that I want someone to help her understand that this isn't her fault. That she doesn't have to just accept his behavior. That she is allowed to step up and make demands of Josh if he hopes to salvage he marriage. And most of all that she is not required to stay with him as a function of her faith. I am hoping she will meet a Christian who can explain to her that Jesus isn't expecting her to suffer with Josh as a symbol of her faith to Him and the Christian marriage doesn't mean that the man does what he wants while the woman cleans his house and bears his children.

[cmr2014]

Well, what I've gathered from my own family is that some people are just born with a constellation of traits that give them the potential to be bulletproof -- low empathy, high will to power, narcissism and so on. And if you've got a certain combination of traits and are born in the right position -- and first kid often is the right position, it seems -- you can start exercising those traits to achieve success very quickly, and repeatedly, and the success reinforces those traits and encourages you to rely on them. It's a nature-environment perfect storm, I suspect. ... Meanwhile, other people get the perfect storm going the other way.

 

I think that all of the Duggars lack empathy -- I don't know if that is an inherited trait or a learned trait (but they would not have anyone to teach them).

 

In terms of self-confidence, I think that they get mixed messages. They are aware that their family is admired and looked up to by people all over the world, and I think that JB in particular nurses that idea that they are "better" than everyone else. And, of course, the boys get an added dose of ego simply because they are male and therefore "superior."

 

On the flip side, I think that all of them are starved for attention and affection. Not only do they not receive any from their parents, but they are completely cut off from the outside world and the surrogates who might have been there for them had they had a more normal upbringing. And the girls are very aware that their only value in life is to serve as incubators and child care workers. They are also reminded constantly of their fundamental sinfullness and their ability to distract and tempt unsuspecting men (like the tedious lawnmower story).

 

On a related note, I wonder of Josh ever did have an affair. I mention this because he is just such an unattractive partner (to me). He is not especially physically attractive and is doughy and out of shape (many people on this board had been commenting that he looked physically ill). Outside of Gothardism, his attitudes about women are offensive and off-putting. I can't help but wonder if, even if he didn't physically have an affair, that they wouldn't say anything about it because it doesn't jibe with their religious beliefs. As far as I understand, one of the fundamental tenants of their belief system is that all (non-Gothard) women are essentially harlots desperately trying to lure Godly men from the path of righteousness. There is certainly some real amusement value in imagining Josh putting up profiles all over the internet begging to be lured from the true path while women just waved him away "No, no, that's okay. Stay righteous "

[Fuzzysox]

I see Josh as a guy that wanted a woman but iin the end had to pay for her services since he had no takers on the AM site.

[LilyoftheValley]

I think that the Ashley Madison, fake Facebook, fake Twitter, and OKCupid account hooked him up with women who charge money for their services.  If he met any real women on OKCupid, then he either had to tell them ahead of time that he was catfishing them, or he would meet them and they would be shocked that he was not the hot model he claimed to be.  I just don't think that if Josh was desperate to fuck a "stripper" he met online that he would no go through with it just because she demanded payment.  

[charmed1]

Whatever happened to "The Lord helps those who help themselves"? I know it's not in the Bible, but they seem happy enough to believe it when it comes to poor people who are unemployed.

With different parents, Josh is an ordinary conservative guy. The kind who goes to State U, joins a frat and the College Republicans, sows his wild oats for a few years, and then settles down with a nice Christian girl, has 2 or 3 kids, and makes partner at his law firm. That's the guy Josh wants to be. Instead he's stuck in this freak show family, having to follow a religion where not smiling all the time is considered sinning against God. Worst of all, he's too famous to be able to anonymously cheat, but not famous enough to be able to do it openly and get away with it.

I agree and feel the same way about Jessa. With different parents in an alternate universe, she'd go to college, join a sorority, party during spring break, get an apartment with some girlfriends, and eventually marry a guy she met at a party. Josh, Jessa and James are the kids in that family with the most distinctive personalities to me. Despite the Gothardism, they were still able to retain a just a little bit of ther true selves. Good and bad.

[Churchhoney]

I see Josh as a guy that wanted a woman but iin the end had to pay for her services since he had no takers on the AM site.

 

I wonder what Josh would think if he knew that practically all of us are skeptical that he actually got any, despite his persistent efforts. Makes me laugh.

 

(Don't feel too bad about laughing, though, since according to the Duggars I'm burning in hell forever even if I bend over backwards to be nice.)

Edited August 23, 2015 by Churchhoney

[LilyoftheValley]

I think Josh's ego is powerful enough that he would rather say he was unfaithful rather than admitting that he desperately tried for seven years to find a woman willing to have sex with him but failed.