Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, Zella said:

I think they know the optics of the church looks bad. I think it's also quite possible that Ben has either forbidden her to post about what he is doing as his one little act of autonomy or that she doesn't post about what he is up to because she gets more clicks for the kids. I don't really get the impression she is very interested in or proud of Ben  (and that may well cut both ways) or that they are supportive of each other in the way a normal spouse would be. 

Isn’t the ability to make his views heard part of the reason Bin wanted to be part of the show to begin with? Here’s his opportunity to get his word out.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I hear you. I didn't think I was excusing them, I was more talking about producers and advertisers.

But as far as Jessa is concerned, keeping Ben's preaching gig private is protecting her beliefs as far as she's concerned. She believes it, her husband preaches it. Many of her followers believe it too. But if its blown up on SM, he loses his gig.

But aren’t they supposed to want to get their word out and convert as many people as possible? Isn’t that the point of having a tv “ministry?” How can they convert or be an example to people if they don’t live their faith?

[Zella]

16 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Isn’t the ability to make his views heard part of the reason Bin wanted to be part of the show to begin with? Here’s his opportunity to get his word out.

Since his parents post about things like him graduating (which was a way more neutral achievement) and Jessa doesn't, I'm not ruling out this is some weird passive-aggressiveness between the two of them. Maybe he's mad because he got shut down early, and this is his way of "punishing" her, not allowing posts about what he is up to. I always thought she overreacted whenever she was asked about what he was up to, and perhaps she lashed out because she didn't have his permission to talk about it. 

[leighdear]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

But aren’t they supposed to want to get their word out and convert as many people as possible? Isn’t that the point of having a tv “ministry?” How can they convert or be an example to people if they don’t live their faith?

They don't have a TV ministry.  TLC has a family-focused show that spotlights courtships, weddings and babies that started with the older girls.  It's slowly enveloping the rest of the kids.

There's no room for contentious politics, overt religion or messy social causes.  Because the REAL audience, i.e. leg humpers, only want to see the courtships, weddings and babies.  They buy the products and they are the ones the sponsors & advertisers care about, not the message board hate-watchers. 

[Temperance]

Originally the Duggars said it was a ministry, but they haven't said that in a long time.

I think the ads are basically the same ads TLC always runs. If they run special fundie ads, I don't know about that. Snarkers and leghumpers probably by the same brands when we need stuff or watch the same movie.

They've been showing Counting On reruns (like Joe asking Kendra to court). 

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

They don't have a TV ministry.  TLC has a family-focused show that spotlights courtships, weddings and babies that started with the older girls.  It's slowly enveloping the rest of the kids.

There's no room for contentious politics, overt religion or messy social causes.  Because the REAL audience, i.e. leg humpers, only want to see the courtships, weddings and babies.  They buy the products and they are the ones the sponsors & advertisers care about, not the message board hate-watchers. 

I only mentioned that because they have called it a “ministry” in the past.

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I only mentioned that because they have called it a “ministry” in the past.

Derelict labeled it as such when detailing how Boob justified not paying them. 

[lascuba]

 

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I definitely agree that hypocrisy applies to many people.! And that of course it's all over entertainment, which operates on image.

But I know that if I shared their religious beliefs, I would be particularly annoyed at them for making their living by essentially denying that thing in how they present themselves, to money, to the wide world.

What they're hiding isn't something like homosexuality, which many presume Travolta to be hiding -- and which they'd be picked on for and which wouldn't be their fault and which they'd likely be hiding as much because of shame as to get money, most likely. And I don't see it as being like Weinstein -- who has a criminal nature and managed to hide that because he's also really powerful and people were afraid to rat him out......That's hiding a crime -- which criminals do. And now he's in jail for that!  And while Cruise has a rosy view of his "religion," I don't see him hiding it. He seems to be pretty open about his love of Scientology! 

Instead, the Duggs are hiding something that they absolutely deliberately embrace by choice and that they strongly preach and advocate for, off camera. 

And it's also something that 's supposedly the central issue of life, and the central issue of morality, for everybody who believes it, including them, supposedly. Yet at the same time, they consider themselves highly moral and very special -- because of the very thing they're lying about it in public forums.

There are many different kinds of hypocrisy. But just because lots of people are hypocrites in various ways doesn't excuse the Duggs' hypocrisy, for me! 

 

I honestly believe that you feeling this way--that you have that much integrity--is precisely why you don't share their beliefs. Because, yes, while hypocrisy is practically universal, there's something about religious fervor that turns hypocrisy into a necessary evil. The ends justify the means, after all. Toning down their beliefs for the heathen masses is a great way to lure people in and then gradually inure them to bigotry. This is, I believe, a deliberate collective strategy on their part, not simply human hypocrisy.

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Isn’t the ability to make his views heard part of the reason Bin wanted to be part of the show to begin with? Here’s his opportunity to get his word out.

I think it was also what mainly attracted Jessa to him.

[emmawoodhouse]

7 minutes ago, lascuba said:

 

I honestly believe that you feeling this way--that you have that much integrity--is precisely why you don't share their beliefs. Because, yes, while hypocrisy is practically universal, there's something about religious fervor that turns hypocrisy into a necessary evil. The ends justify the means, after all. Toning down their beliefs for the heathen masses is a great way to lure people in and then gradually inure them to bigotry. This is, I believe, a deliberate collective strategy on their part, not simply human hypocrisy.

I think it was also what mainly attracted Jessa to him.

I still don't know whay attracted Jessa. Ben was big on romantic gestures, but Jessa wasn't having any of that. What wore her down in the end? She doesn't strike me as the preacher's wife type, but here we are, 7 years later. She's just so guarded all the time, not the type of person you would expect to host ladies' bible studies and coffee klatches.

[lascuba]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

I still don't know whay attracted Jessa. Ben was big on romantic gestures, but Jessa wasn't having any of that. What wore her down in the end? She doesn't strike me as the preacher's wife type, but here we are, 7 years later. She's just so guarded all the time, not the type of person you would expect to host ladies' bible studies and coffee klatches.

I think a few things were going on. He was the first guy young, good(???) looking guy expressing an interest who didn't ping her creep radar (how, I don't know, because nothing screams creepy more than some rando crossing state lines in the hopes courting some girl from tv); he spouted the same hateful beliefs she believed, and walked the walked by spending his free time "preaching" in front of abortion clinics, which much have seemed impressive to Jessa, much how like Jill was attracted to Derick's "missionary work" in Nepal; he ticked the "laid back" box on her list of requirements for a husband; and probably most importantly, imo, their courtship was outed by Ben's relative, forcing the relationship out in the open and in front of TLC's cameras. Up until then, Ben was four hours away and their time together was extremely limited. I really think their relationship would have fizzled out in time because despite their initial attraction I think their differences would have gotten in the way for Jessa (I'm projecting here, because as someone who doesn't like romantic gestures, Ben came across as someone who really didn't see Jessa as a person). The forced proximity made him grow on her more. Plus, as we've all learned, Jessa cannot handle public speculation about her. No way was she going to end a courtship once the public knew of it and had seen them together.

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, lascuba said:

who didn't ping her creep radar (how, I don't know, because nothing screams creepy more than some rando crossing state lines in the hopes courting some girl from tv)

Based on the guys the Duggar girls ended up with and some of their own family members, I have often wondered how fucking creepy the rejected suitors who were deemed too creepy were. Are we talking Unabomber creepy?

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Based on the guys the Duggar girls ended up with and some of their own family members, I have often wondered how fucking creepy the rejected suitors who were deemed too creepy were. Are we talking Unabomber creepy?

They must have been baaaad. And yes, it was either Jessa or Jana who labeled the potential suitors as creeps. But as far as I know, Ben is the only spouse who made it all the way to the altar after seeing a hot girl on TV.

[iwantcookies]

11 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

They must have been baaaad. And yes, it was either Jessa or Jana who labeled the potential suitors as creeps. But as far as I know, Ben is the only spouse who made it all the way to the altar after seeing a hot girl on TV.

Brought this to mind.

[GeeGolly]

I'm not sure Jessa would have gone full-on school girl crush with anyone. As I think @emmawoodhouse, appropriately labeled her, Jessa is a cold fish. I suspect though, she may have enjoyed Ben's romantic gestures, but was not going to let anyone know in case the courtship didn't work out. She was not going to openly gush over Ben and be the one who ended up being rejected. If it ended, her story would have been it was no big deal to begin with. 

I do think however, once Jessa knew Ben was sticking around, she doubled down with her goal to marry him, partly because JB was reluctant to allow them to move more quickly toward engagement. 

But either way, Jessa is just not a googly eyed girl like Jill and Jinger. She's more like Michelle - another cold fish. They run the show, get what they want and unemotionally throw their headships a bone by saying they're great, and of course, by being joyfully available.

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Derelict labeled it as such when detailing how Boob justified not paying them. 

I think that's always been JB's and M's line. It's just that now they don't talk that much publicly about anything. Meeechelle has said stuff like that Jessa has brought tens of thousands of young women to Jesus through her example. And if that's not claiming to carry out a ministry I don't know what is. 

And I've read accounts from people who worked for the Gothard enterprises who flat-out state that that gang was heavily on board with it because it would be a ministry on behalf of their beliefs. And that, in fact, most people who joined ATI/IBLP from 2008 onward reported coming into the group because they were attracted by the Duggars' example, so the ministry was a success....And David Waller was brought on to write, at least, the girls' book -- because the point of the book was to spread the philosophy/morality/theology of the group. And it does -- with those points often illustrated by supposed stories-from-the-girls that simply never happened. The Duggar girls did not ever go to a birthday party at which all the other girls in attendance had watched some sexy recent movie and talked about it. I'd bet my house on that. 

It's certainly true that TLC has never considered it a ministry. Of course not. That's not their business. They consider everything a means  of getting money for advertisers from whoever they think will watch a show. But while JB and M may secretly or blatantly or unconsciously (hard to tell with them) believe the same thing, they claimed that the show was a ministry, back when they occasionally talked publicly about it. And, by reports, they also claimed that when they discussed it with their ATI/IBLP buddies. 

13 hours ago, lascuba said:

 

I honestly believe that you feeling this way--that you have that much integrity--is precisely why you don't share their beliefs. Because, yes, while hypocrisy is practically universal, there's something about religious fervor that turns hypocrisy into a necessary evil. The ends justify the means, after all. Toning down their beliefs for the heathen masses is a great way to lure people in and then gradually inure them to bigotry. This is, I believe, a deliberate collective strategy on their part, not simply human hypocrisy.

 

Yeah, I completely agree with this.

Which is why I think it's particularly despicable for TLC to participate in hiding this, under the guise of some crap they call "reality tv."

I wouldn't have any problem with "reality tv" showing various extremists if it showed their actual reality, including their beliefs, the fervor with which they embrace them, the psychologies involved in them and the ways they try to spread them, the way documentaries generally (not always) do. But pouring candy caramel over various extremist beliefs and implying to viewers that they're just putting on a show about cute toddlers is a dangerous, unethical practice, as far as I'm concerned. And if you do it for religious bigots, it's just one small step to doing it for mobsters and Nazis. 

But of course TLC and company have no ethics at all. And that's what disturbs me. 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

They run the show, get what they want and unemotionally throw their headships a bone by saying they're great, and of course, by being joyfully available.

I think this and the Meechelle comparison are definitely right. But I doubt it's actually joyful. 😁   (Trying to picture Jessa enjoying an abandoned, playful, passionate sexual encounter.....ummm.....ummmm..... Nah.)  

I know you meant "joyfully available" sarcastically! But it always makes me laugh when I think of it in connection with somebody like Jessa. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

If it became widely known where Ben worked, this is what I imagine the headlines would be:

Is Sex Pest, Josh Duggar attending Immanuel Baptist Church in Arkansas?

Sources have confirmed that Ben Seewald, brother-in-law of Josh Duggar is now pastoring at Immanuel Baptist Church in Springdale, AR. When a teen, Josh Duggar molested his younger sisters, including Pastor Seewald's wife. Years later, Josh was also caught up in the Ashley Madison online dating sex scandal and subsequently lost his job at the conservative Family Research Council.

Followers of the Duggars share their concern on SM, worrying that while Ben preaches intolerance, Sex Pest Josh, will be in attendance. One follower was quoted as saying, "Didn't the Duggars learn anything after what happened when Michelle Duggar, (the family's matriarch) sent out a robocall against the LBGT+ community?".

Sex Pest's brother-in-law Ben, has been pastoring at Immanuel Baptist Church starting sometime in 2020.

[farmgal4]

7 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I think this and the Meechelle comparison are definitely right. But I doubt it's actually joyful. 😁   (Trying to picture Jessa enjoying an abandoned, playful, passionate sexual encounter.....ummm.....ummmm..... Nah.)  

I know you meant "joyfully available" sarcastically! But it always makes me laugh when I think of it in connection with somebody like Jessa. 

I can imagine Jessa only allowing sex to procreate and her telling Ben that he’d “better make it quick!” 😂 Seriously though, I think that Jessa is most likely a cold fish in the bedroom.  I also think that Ben has some serious buyer’s remorse.  I feel sorry for the guy.

[Albanyguy]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

But either way, Jessa is just not a googly eyed girl like Jill and Jinger. She's more like Michelle - another cold fish. They run the show, get what they want and unemotionally throw their headships a bone by saying they're great, and of course, by being joyfully available.

I believe that Michelle only truly cares about three of her children, all for selfish, narcissistic reasons of her own. There's Josh, who's proof that God blessed her by enabling her to present her husband with a first-born son and heir. There's Josie, her "precious miracle", the little show pony she could trot out at Right to Life rallies (and her affection for Josie seems to be fading as Josie grows up and can no longer be presented as a frail baby). And there's Jessa, clearly Michelle's favorite daughter. Jessa was the "pretty", "spunky" daughter, the one most like Michelle herself. Jessa would have been the Duggar girl who became a cheerleader and mowed the lawn in her bikini, if such things could have been allowed. I think Jessa received much more positive attention from Michelle than any of her sisters and absorbed more of her personality and character traits. 

[ozziemom]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

I can imagine Jessa only allowing sex to procreate and her telling Ben that he’d “better make it quick!” 😂 Seriously though, I think that Jessa is most likely a cold fish in the bedroom.  I also think that Ben has some serious buyer’s remorse.  I feel sorry for the guy.

Plus there’s always a kid in their bedroom.

[satrunrose]

Jessa and Joy are the two Duggars who I really wonder about how they have been if they weren't raised fundie. I have this feeling that Jill would have been boho and awkward and Jana would have been quiet, hard working and devoted to her hobbies either way, but imagine a Jessa who could have gone to school and had a career with no pressure to have All The Babies or a Joy who went to Community College and pursued a trade and could be the tomboy she is. Who would those women have become if they'd had half a chance?

Edited March 14, 2021 by satrunrose

[GeeGolly]

41 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

Jessa and Joy are the two Duggars who I really wonder about how they have been if they weren't raised fundie. I have this feeling that Jill would have been boho and awkward and Jana would have been quiet, hard working and devoted to her hobbies either way, but a  imagine a Jessa who could have gone to school and had a career with no pressure to have All The Babies or a Joy who went to Community College and pursued a trade and could be the tomboy she is. Who would those women have become if they'd had half a chance?

Per Michelle, JB and the older kids, Jana was actually the most outspoken daughter of the bunch. I think Jessa is very shy and insecure outside her circle. I imagine Jana being more like your description of Jessa. 

I imagine Jessa working at a Chick-fil-A until some local dude flirted with her and they would eventually marry.

[MunichNark]

Agree. Jana was very outgoing when she was younger, then she took a weird turn and ended up as a Stepford wives robot.

Jessa is something else. Hard to say how she'd have turned out. Joy might have been an athlete and Jill may have been an actual nurse.

[Zella]

33 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 I think Jessa is very shy and insecure outside her circle. 

I think you're right. She definitely seems to shut down when she is out of her familiar surroundings. I don't think Jessa is the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she sometimes seems a little more cognizant of how the family comes across than some of the others do. I hesitate to call it self-awareness, so I am not sure what to call it. But It wouldn't surprise me to find out that she knows she's a big fish in a small pond--even if she would never admit that to anyone--so she's parked in that pond for the duration. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Zella

[iwantcookies]

Jill is not smart enough to be a nurse. 
 

 

[FizzyPuff]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I believe that Michelle only truly cares about three of her children, all for selfish, narcissistic reasons of her own. There's Josh, who's proof that God blessed her by enabling her to present her husband with a first-born son and heir. There's Josie, her "precious miracle", the little show pony she could trot out at Right to Life rallies (and her affection for Josie seems to be fading as Josie grows up and can no longer be presented as a frail baby). And there's Jessa, clearly Michelle's favorite daughter. Jessa was the "pretty", "spunky" daughter, the one most like Michelle herself. Jessa would have been the Duggar girl who became a cheerleader and mowed the lawn in her bikini, if such things could have been allowed. I think Jessa received much more positive attention from Michelle than any of her sisters and absorbed more of her personality and character traits. 

I thought Jill was Mechelles favourite daughter, she called her Jilly Muffin, she said she was perfect right? Jill was what made her want more kids, she cried at her wedding, didn’t seem that bothered about Jessa getting married though. 

[BetyBee]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If it became widely known where Ben worked, this is what I imagine the headlines would be:

Is Sex Pest, Josh Duggar attending Immanuel Baptist Church in Arkansas?

Sources have confirmed that Ben Seewald, brother-in-law of Josh Duggar is now pastoring at Immanuel Baptist Church in Springdale, AR. When a teen, Josh Duggar molested his younger sisters, including Pastor Seewald's wife. Years later, Josh was also caught up in the Ashley Madison online dating sex scandal and subsequently lost his job at the conservative Family Research Council.

Followers of the Duggars share their concern on SM, worrying that while Ben preaches intolerance, Sex Pest Josh, will be in attendance. One follower was quoted as saying, "Didn't the Duggars learn anything after what happened when Michelle Duggar, (the family's matriarch) sent out a robocall against the LBGT+ community?".

Sex Pest's brother-in-law Ben, has been pastoring at Immanuel Baptist Church starting sometime in 2020.

I'll be watching for this article, which will likely show up word for word in In Touch!

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I'll be watching for this article, which will likely show up word for word in In Touch!

Or the Daily Fail! LOL

4 minutes ago, FizzyPuff said:

I thought Jill was Mechelles favourite daughter, she called her Jilly Muffin, she said she was perfect right? Jill was what made her want more kids, she cried at her wedding, didn’t seem that bothered about Jessa getting married though. 

I thought Jill was Jim Bob's favorite, which I've always thought probably explains why the spat with Derick is so nasty. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think you're right. She definitely seems to shut down when she is out of her familiar surroundings. I don't think Jessa is the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she sometimes seems a little more cognizant of how the family comes across than some of the others do. I hesitate to call it self-awareness, so I am not sure what to call it. But It wouldn't surprise me to find out that she knows she's a big fish in a small pond--even if she would never admit that to anyone--so she's parked in that pond for the duration. 

I agree.

As far as self-awareness, Jessa doesn't seem to really understand who she is, but she does understand how others see her to be. Whether that be her family, her fans or her haters. On SM she tries to play the middle ground - not too bossy and know-it-all, not too Fundy, but still Christian. 

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

I agree.

As far as self-awareness, Jessa doesn't seem to really understand who she is, but she does understand how others see her to be. Whether that be her family, her fans or her haters. On SM she tries to play the middle ground - not too bossy and know-it-all, not too Fundy, but still Christian. 

Yes I think that's what it is! Not so much any personal self-awareness but an awareness of how she is perceived.

[QuinnInND]

6 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Jill is not smart enough to be a nurse. 
 

 

I don't know if it that she's not smart per se. I think if she had been educated properly and been in a normal family, she would have done much better. 

[lascuba]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure Jessa would have gone full-on school girl crush with anyone. As I think @emmawoodhouse, appropriately labeled her, Jessa is a cold fish. I suspect though, she may have enjoyed Ben's romantic gestures, but was not going to let anyone know in case the courtship didn't work out. She was not going to openly gush over Ben and be the one who ended up being rejected. If it ended, her story would have been it was no big deal to begin with. 

I do think however, once Jessa knew Ben was sticking around, she doubled down with her goal to marry him, partly because JB was reluctant to allow them to move more quickly toward engagement. 

But either way, Jessa is just not a googly eyed girl like Jill and Jinger. She's more like Michelle - another cold fish. They run the show, get what they want and unemotionally throw their headships a bone by saying they're great, and of course, by being joyfully available.

I think you're giving her way too much credit for her abilities to act and think that far ahead in that way. 

[lascuba]

If Jessa is Michelle's favorite daughter, I think that happened much later in Jessa's life. Michelle and Jim Bob have both strongly hinted that Jessa was the most punished as a young child for how headstrong she was. That Jessa seemingly survived that with her attitude intact (unlike Jana, apparently) while still being a loud advocate for their beliefs* probably led to a case of game recognizing game for Michelle. It might not even be a case of "favorite" so much as respecting someone she can't push around like she does the rest of them.

*JB once said about Jessa, something like, "If you raise a strong-willed child in faith, she'll be strong in her faith," and that always struck me as really significant in explaining Jessa's whole deal.

[lascuba]

48 minutes ago, QuinnInND said:

I don't know if it that she's not smart per se. I think if she had been educated properly and been in a normal family, she would have done much better. 

*Sorry for one post of another, my browser is acting up and not loading new replies right away or in order.*

It's hard to say how she would have fared with a good baseline education, but Jill strikes me as someone who's not at all intelligent but is curious and a hard worker. She'd have had to study much more than anyone else to eek out a passing a grade, but she likely could have done it. If you graduate the last in your class, you still graduate.

[Zella]

I think beyond education issues, Jill is temperamentally unsuited to nursing. Many people are not good candidates for nursing for reasons beyond education. (Myself included.) If she had had a better foundational education, I think she would have been better equipped to finish a program, but I am not sure she would have been a good nurse. She seemed to fundamentally lack the good judgment you'd want from someone in that position.

My grandmother is a good example of someone who wanted to be a nurse and didn't because she got married rather than going to school. But she has good judgment and has good instincts (when she has garden-variety medical suggestions about everyday things, I usually listen as a result), so I think she would have been a really good nurse if she had pursued that. I don't see that in Jill. 

That being said, if Jill had had a better education and a non-Gothard upbringing, maybe those personality factors would have been different as well. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Zella

[cmr2014]

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think beyond education issues, Jill is temperamentally unsuited to nursing. Many people are not good candidates for nursing for reasons beyond education. (Myself included.) If she had had a better foundational education, I think she would have been better equipped to finish a program, but I am not sure she would have been a good nurse. She seemed to fundamentally lack the good judgment you'd want from someone in that position.

My grandmother is a good example of someone who wanted to be a nurse and didn't because she got married rather than going to school. But she has good judgment and has good instincts (when she has garden-variety medical suggestions about everyday things, I usually listen as a result), so I think she would have been a really good nurse if she had pursued that. I don't see that in Jill. 

That being said, if Jill had had a better education and a non-Gothard upbringing, maybe those personality factors would have been different as well. 

I think Jill had a very limited set of options that she considered to be available for her future. I think she probably considered herself to be the least likely in the family to be married based on her physical appearance. I think it's possible -- given the baseline creepiness of the cult -- that she may have been specifically told that.

She probably thought becoming a midwife would be a good option -- a way of supporting herself that would be appropriate for a woman. I don't think it crosses any of their minds that people should do things that they're suited to do (J'chelle has 19 children, and admits that she "doesn't have a heart for children."). If she hadn't been raised in a baby-worshipping cult, I don't think being a nurse would have crossed her mind. I don't know what she would have done, but I think that she believes that she "loves children" more than she really does, and she believes that she "enjoys serving" more than she really does.

Jessa, on the other hand, was -- and is -- a mean girl. I think that she 100% believes that her good looks are her meal ticket and would have leveraged them to the best of her ability to position herself for the future. She would have gone to college, and found some guy who she thought would make a lot of money, and who she could push around, and would have married young. She would have quickly had a baby and dropped out of the work force. She would be busy right now haranguing Spurgeon's kindergarten teacher about the snacks provided in class (Spurgeon would probably be named Noah or Liam). She would be speaking at city council meetings about the condition of public parks, or something similar. She's a bossy know-it-all, and bone lazy.

[iwantcookies]

5 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think Jill had a very limited set of options that she considered to be available for her future. I think she probably considered herself to be the least likely in the family to be married based on her physical appearance. I think it's possible -- given the baseline creepiness of the cult -- that she may have been specifically told that.

She probably thought becoming a midwife would be a good option -- a way of supporting herself that would be appropriate for a woman. I don't think it crosses any of their minds that people should do things that they're suited to do (J'chelle has 19 children, and admits that she "doesn't have a heart for children."). If she hadn't been raised in a baby-worshipping cult, I don't think being a nurse would have crossed her mind. I don't know what she would have done, but I think that she believes that she "loves children" more than she really does, and she believes that she "enjoys serving" more than she really does.

Jessa, on the other hand, was -- and is -- a mean girl. I think that she 100% believes that her good looks are her meal ticket and would have leveraged them to the best of her ability to position herself for the future. She would have gone to college, and found some guy who she thought would make a lot of money, and who she could push around, and would have married young. She would have quickly had a baby and dropped out of the work force. She would be busy right now haranguing Spurgeon's kindergarten teacher about the snacks provided in class (Spurgeon would probably be named Noah or Liam). She would be speaking at city council meetings about the condition of public parks, or something similar. She's a bossy know-it-all, and bone lazy.

“All snacks must be vegan, gluten free and nut free.  OMG is that juice organic? “
 

Jessa Blessa from the Hamptons 

[GeeGolly]

58 minutes ago, lascuba said:

If Jessa is Michelle's favorite daughter, I think that happened much later in Jessa's life. Michelle and Jim Bob have both strongly hinted that Jessa was the most punished as a young child for how headstrong she was. That Jessa seemingly survived that with her attitude intact (unlike Jana, apparently) while still being a loud advocate for their beliefs* probably led to a case of game recognizing game for Michelle. It might not even be a case of "favorite" so much as respecting someone she can't push around like she does the rest of them.

*JB once said about Jessa, something like, "If you raise a strong-willed child in faith, she'll be strong in her faith," and that always struck me as really significant in explaining Jessa's whole deal.

I think you're right. The turning point seem to come after Josie's birth. Jessa stepped up in big (and bullying) ways and took charge. She hopped right over Jana and Jill and began running things. Jana doesn't do well under pressure and Jill likely spent as much time with Josie as possible.

Jessa finally found a way to be the mean girl and have her parents appreciate her. And Jessa never looked back. By the time Josie was home, Jessa ruled the kingdom and Michelle gave up the last of her responsibilities willingly.

[JoanArc]

3 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Jill is not smart enough to be a nurse. 
 

 

As a nurse, this is simply not true. Millions of people are taught how to provide nursing care by nurses to their family members. Nursing is definitely a challenging profession, for many reasons, but I know that Jill could do it. Damn Michelle and Jim Bob a hundred times over for systematically beating that ability out of her.

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Jill is not smart enough to be a nurse. 
 

 

I disagree, I think with the proper education she could have been.

[crazycatlady58]

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I disagree, I think with the proper education she could have been.

With proper education and minus the brain washing.

[rue721]

I dunno, I think Jessa is bored as hell and that's where her ennui and laziness is coming from. Her life is mind-numbing. The only mental stimulation she's "allowed" is weird holy roller shit and being on the show, and so that's the stuff she's obsessed with.

If she had been raised mainstream and encouraged to actually participate in the world (instead of hide from it), she might be completely unrecognizable. I think she's actually pretty sharp, given how anti-intellectual and repressive her family is. She might be inherently lazy, or maybe she just doesn't give a shit about housekeeping. But god forbid she live life on her own terms -- her parents have thoroughly brain-washed her and now she's too scared to even see what's out there.

[awaken]

14 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I think this and the Meechelle comparison are definitely right. But I doubt it's actually joyful. 😁   (Trying to picture Jessa enjoying an abandoned, playful, passionate sexual encounter.....ummm.....ummmm..... Nah.)  

Judging by how they’ve shown us they kiss, I believe you are right!  

[madpsych78]

I don't know that Jessa would have been "Jessa Blessa at the Hamptons" had she been raised non-Gothard. I see that more in Jinger, and maybe part of that is because of Jeremy, but I also think that Jinger actually wants that.

[emmawoodhouse]

20 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I don't know that Jessa would have been "Jessa Blessa at the Hamptons" had she been raised non-Gothard. I see that more in Jinger, and maybe part of that is because of Jeremy, but I also think that Jinger actually wants that.

I agree. Jessa is a lot of things, but I don't think she's materialistic. Jinger, OTOH...

[emma675]

5 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Jill is not smart enough to be a nurse. 

I think this is unfair. Who knows what any of these kids could have been, had they been given a chance at a normal education and upbringing. I think many of them, especially the girls, are naturally sharp (Jessa seems to pick up on things pretty quickly, imo, even if she doesn't agree with it) and it would have been interesting to see what they could have done.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

I dunno, I think Jessa is bored as hell and that's where her ennui and laziness is coming from. Her life is mind-numbing. The only mental stimulation she's "allowed" is weird holy roller shit and being on the show, and so that's the stuff she's obsessed with.

If she had been raised mainstream and encouraged to actually participate in the world (instead of hide from it), she might be completely unrecognizable. I think she's actually pretty sharp, given how anti-intellectual and repressive her family is. She might be inherently lazy, or maybe she just doesn't give a shit about housekeeping. But god forbid she live life on her own terms -- her parents have thoroughly brain-washed her and now she's too scared to even see what's out there.

Excellent point. I'm far from lazy at work and things I enjoy, but housework? Fuck that noise. I keep up with the bathroom and kitchen really well because I'm not disgusting, and I'm good with laundry (except when it's time to put the clean clothes away), but other than that I do the bare minimum until the shame at the size of the dust bunnies under the bed starts getting to me. If I'd been told from birth that my life would be nothing but doing the thing I hate most...oof.

19 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I agree. Jessa is a lot of things, but I don't think she's materialistic. Jinger, OTOH...

Yeah, it's always funny to me how Jessa gets certain qualities assigned to her that all evidence suggest better describe her sisters. Jinger and Jana are by far more materialistic than Jessa. And I'd day all the sisters except Joy are more vain.

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, emma675 said:

I think this is unfair. Who knows what any of these kids could have been, had they been given a chance at a normal education and upbringing. I think many of them, especially the girls, are naturally sharp (Jessa seems to pick up on things pretty quickly, imo, even if she doesn't agree with it) and it would have been interesting to see what they could have done.

Absolutely. And, besides that, if they'd been given a shot at learning stuff, exploring their own interests, meeting people, taking a job, it would give their children more of a shot.

That's what I find most alarming about their deprivation. The next generation aren't going to have Daddy JB to hand them tacky houses and semi-pretend "jobs" to support them. And the show money (and apparent sense of identity they seem to get from being TeeVee stars) will be completely gone.

They'll be on their own in the big strange-to-them real world -- with parents who themselves never got a chance to learn to navigate it. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Spazamanaz]

Just now, Churchhoney said:

Absolutely. And, more than that, if they'd been given a shot at learning stuff, exploring their own interests, meeting people, taking a job, it would give their children more of a shot.

That's what I find most alarming about their deprivation. The next generation aren't going to have Daddy JB to hand them tacky houses and semi-pretend "jobs" to support them. And the show money (and apparent sense of identity they seem to get from being TeeVee stars) will be completely gone.

They'll be on their own in the big strange-to-them real world -- with parents who themselves never got a chance to learn to navigate it. 

Set up for failure.  

[MargeGunderson]

@rue721, I agree with your assessment of Jessa. I think she’s smarter than she gets credit for, but is frustrated by the limits of her life, education, and exposure to mainstream life. She’s the one I could see as successful at a job, under different circumstances. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by MargeGunderson