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S04.E19: The Labors Of Love

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Ok so one minor quibble; Kelly can go all 12 step tough love all she wants but the "rent, that's David's problem now!" No, Princess. That is not how that works. Your name (well, your parent's name) is on the lease. It is still your responsibility. And that's why you call up Mel and tell him what's going on and that David needs more help than he's getting AND he also needs to move out. You do not just default on your lease to teach your horrible step brother a lesson and prove to the world that you've read all the self help there is.

Also, shut up Brandon. You have no point. AND THE WALSHS ARE RICH! Stop with "I was born a poor black boy" bullshit. They are richy, rich, rich, rich.

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I never quite understood the logic of "David is an overnight orange juice and meth addict so Kelly and Donna move out."  Say what now?  Why not kick the addict out?  Because Mel doesn't have the Super Toilet at his place?  

Still harping on the apparent hatred the wardrobe/hairdressing department had for Gabrielle Carteris.  Seriously.  It's amazing how much better she looks in Season 5.  Still older than the rest (and acting it) but better.

Because it can't be said enough, SHUT UP, BRANDON.  The way he talks to his parents is unreal.  Shame on Jim and Cindy for not knocking him and his teeth into next week. 

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I'm going to assume that the view of the toilet bowl cracks relates to Kelly's views on addicts. I'm sure there has been many times where Kelly caught Jackie face down in a toilet bowl throwing up from the substances used the night before.

I'm going to assume Brandon paused on the lasagna because it was supposed a "stuff" moment where Brandon knows the his mom's lasagna is bad so he's trying to gently turn it down.

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So... All of Andrea's friends just congratulate her on getting married and having a baby at age nineteen? With a guy she's known for less than 6 months? If we ever needed proof than the gang really doesn't care about Andrea, here it is! (It didn't watch the episode and don't really remember it from way back when, so perhaps there's some side eye going on from some of the others, I wouldn't know).

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29 minutes ago, Nanna said:

So... All of Andrea's friends just congratulate her on getting married and having a baby at age nineteen? With a guy she's known for less than 6 months?

That, IIRC, most of them had not even met until that moment.  I had really forgotten what a boring drip Jesse, but the podcast is bringing it alllll back.

In other news, I was delighted by Sarah D. Bunting's delight re: Jim's chilly shade.

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2 hours ago, Nanna said:

So... All of Andrea's friends just congratulate her on getting married and having a baby at age nineteen? With a guy she's known for less than 6 months? If we ever needed proof than the gang really doesn't care about Andrea, here it is! (It didn't watch the episode and don't really remember it from way back when, so perhaps there's some side eye going on from some of the others, I wouldn't know).

This is especially ironic given how when Brenda was running off to elope with Stuart in Las Vegas, Ohhhhhhhhn-drea, with her mumsy outfit, is the one who first says how ridiculous the entire thing is.  Granted, Brenda and Stuart had known each other for 2 weeks when they got engaged and maybe a month at most here but no one brought up their opinion on  Ohhhhhhhhhn-drea sleeping with and becoming impregnated by Jesse in record time.

FWIW, I have Season 4 on DVD and in the special features is a mini-interview with Mark Damon Espinoza, who played Jessie.  He said that when he was first brought on the show, GC was 7 months pregnant.  So not only did the show really waited until the last minute to write Ohhhhhhhn-drea's pregnancy in but she was at least 7 months pregnant when Ohhhhhhhhn-drea was finding out she was pregnant.  Crazy ridiculous.  

Another extra was an interview with Charles Rosin and he said that GC had come to Aaron Spelling about wanting to start a family and he encouraged her to go ahead, not realizing that she would get pregnant immediately, like within the month.  So I guess that messed up the writers' plans.  But whatever.  .  Rosin also said that everyone connected to the show was terrified that the kids were graduating high school and Aaron wanted to keep them there but it was pointed out that GC and Ian Ziering could not pass for high school students much longer.  Ha!  (I actually think Ian was okay and he could certainly pass for a college student.  Maybe GC could have as well if they weren't dressing her like Barbara Bush.) 

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I have to wonder if hormones were wrecking havoc with Gabrielle's hair, paired with a substandard stylist. Most of the girls hair went down in quality, looking stringy and lacking body, but hers was the worst. 

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1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

This is especially ironic given how when Brenda was running off to elope with Stuart in Las Vegas, Ohhhhhhhhn-drea, with her mumsy outfit, is the one who first says how ridiculous the entire thing is.  Granted, Brenda and Stuart had known each other for 2 weeks when they got engaged and maybe a month at most here but no one brought up their opinion on  Ohhhhhhhhhn-drea sleeping with and becoming impregnated by Jesse in record time.

FWIW, I have Season 4 on DVD and in the special features is a mini-interview with Mark Damon Espinoza, who played Jessie.  He said that when he was first brought on the show, GC was 7 months pregnant.  So not only did the show really waited until the last minute to write Ohhhhhhhn-drea's pregnancy in but she was at least 7 months pregnant when Ohhhhhhhhn-drea was finding out she was pregnant.  Crazy ridiculous.  

Another extra was an interview with Charles Rosin and he said that GC had come to Aaron Spelling about wanting to start a family and he encouraged her to go ahead, not realizing that she would get pregnant immediately, like within the month.  So I guess that messed up the writers' plans.  But whatever.  .  Rosin also said that everyone connected to the show was terrified that the kids were graduating high school and Aaron wanted to keep them there but it was pointed out that GC and Ian Ziering could not pass for high school students much longer.  Ha!  (I actually think Ian was okay and he could certainly pass for a college student.  Maybe GC could have as well if they weren't dressing her like Barbara Bush.) 

Why even have the pregnancy story at that point? I mean really, it's not like it's going to get more ridiculous. I kind of thought she was maybe 5 months and just showing really early. But 7 months? You've been ignoring it this long, what's another 2 months? Give her a job in the library and sack books in front of her. Really, what was the point?

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The Dylan bail out was crucial to the greater Beverly Hills economy--the Peach Pit was too big to fail! 

I thought Brandon's pissy reaction to the bail out was less about the "sweat equity" issue and more about his vision of himself being carried on everyone's shoulders and cheered as The Hero Who Saved The Peach Pit.  Because he just doesn't get enough praise and validation in his life. 

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Oh man, this episode. I was in 6th grade when this originally aired, so I was the right age to take this show very. seriously. My sister, however, was in 11th grade and was a Nirvana-loving alterna-teen, so she loved to snark on this show (although I think she also legitimately wanted to watch it and used snarkiness as a smokescreen so she could), which would upset me immensely (which I obviously got over since I listen to this podcast). So we were watching this episode together and at the point where Kelly says that the rent isn't their problem anymore, my sister goes, "Kelly obviously doesn't know anything about leases." But now as an adult who's watched well over 1,000 hours of Judge Judy, I believe that they would not be held accountable for the rent or honoring the lease because David brought drugs into the apartment. And what's David going to do? Take them to court and have to explain why they moved out?

Edited by MerBearStare

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Two more stray thoughts...

1) It occurred to listening to Kelly, Dylan, and Donna discuss David's drug addiction that all three of them will suffer from drug addictions later in the series.

2) Sarah D. Bunting's defeated "Hi..." at the start cracks me up.

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Brandon you turd, your friend who has money just saved the business of another friend who doesn't - you could try being happy for Nat maybe?

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Sarah D. Bunting's defeated "Hi..." at the start cracks me up.

hee! We nearly were defeated, in three attempts across seriously three states. Damn you, Cape Cod Comcast.

Anyway: ...Hi. (hee) We're glad to be back. #SuperToilet2016

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14 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

This is especially ironic given how when Brenda was running off to elope with Stuart in Las Vegas, Ohhhhhhhhn-drea, with her mumsy outfit, is the one who first says how ridiculous the entire thing is.  Granted, Brenda and Stuart had known each other for 2 weeks when they got engaged and maybe a month at most here but no one brought up their opinion on  Ohhhhhhhhhn-drea sleeping with and becoming impregnated by Jesse in record time.

This has always, always bothered me. Granted, Brenda was the wild child and was clearly just going along with the engagement and eloping in Vegas because that's the kind of melodramatic bullshit she pulled, but still - she falls for a guy and runs off to Vegas to marry him after two weeks, and everyone rightfully points out how insane that is. Andra falls for a guy and gets knocked up and everyone treats it like it's this wonderful, romantic, joyous event, which really hammers home the notion that if you accidentally get pregnant you should definitely marry the guy, even if you've known him for a month and you've never discussed things like how you'd want to raise your kids and where you might have to move in the future for his boring job.

I can't even deal with Brandon in this episode. Somehow, in all of his self-righteous, obnoxious, preachy, braying episodes, this one annoys me the most, because it's both stupid and misguided, and shows an astounding lack of awareness. Oh boo hoo, someone saved the diner that you were bitching at your father about needing to be saved just one episode ago. Oh boo hoo, you're only upper upper upper upper middle class rather than a millionaire. Oh boo hoo, you'll never know what it's like to buy half of a crappy diner that doesn't make any money (possibly because they give away half their menu for free and their signature burger is just a cheeseburger). And we're supposed to fell bad for you?? Cram it, Brandon.

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17 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I'm going to assume that the view of the toilet bowl cracks relates to Kelly's views on addicts. I'm sure there has been many times where Kelly caught Jackie face down in a toilet bowl throwing up from the substances used the night before.

 

Yeah, that was what I thought Kelly's "toilet bowl" joke referred to - David getting sick from drugs and puking in the toilet.

In the Dylan/Brandon clip that opened the episode, I legit thought I'd accidentally sent my playback at double speed.  Did Dylan borrow some of David's meth; he was talking a mile a minute.

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14 hours ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

The Dylan bail out was crucial to the greater Beverly Hills economy--the Peach Pit was too big to fail! 

I thought Brandon's pissy reaction to the bail out was less about the "sweat equity" issue and more about his vision of himself being carried on everyone's shoulders and cheered as The Hero Who Saved The Peach Pit.  Because he just doesn't get enough praise and validation in his life. 

That's what I thought too. I was under the impression Brandon was mostly pissed because Dylan got credit for saving the Pit and Brandon thought it should all go to him. Brandon's the worst. 

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It occurred to me during this episode that Andrea should have been given the task force story. Then she could have been shipped off for GC's maternity leave under the guise of traveling around the state fulfilling task force duties. Plus it's believable for Andrea to be sought out as a freshman than Brandon. 

Of course, that would prevent the tongue bathing for Brandon and we can't have that.

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Let's hope Donna remembers all of Kelly's Tough Love Lessons For Drug Users You Love in a couple of years when it is Kelly's drug problem we are tackling.

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Please don't ever take so long to record another show!  I felt like druggie David, constantly refreshing the podcast page, to see if the new epi posted.

I never really understood what Lucinda saw in Brandon.  He's okay looking, but he's short with a big head (I sound like Mama Joyce complaining about short, big headed people!) and has no money.   

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I mean...is it possible Brian Austin Green studied Corey Haim to prepare for his role as a dope fiend? I want to believe this is what is happening here.

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7 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Please don't ever take so long to record another show!  I felt like druggie David, constantly refreshing the podcast page, to see if the new epi posted.

I never really understood what Lucinda saw in Brandon.  He's okay looking, but he's short with a big head (I sound like Mama Joyce complaining about short, big headed people!) and has no money.   

Easy to bone? I dunno. 

Funny how it was pointed out that Kelly, Donna and Dylan got involved in drugs. Like no one learned from David or Jackie at all. David learned from David. He knew the ish when Coke Kelly and Coke Colin the crappy artist happened. 

Edited by SoupThrower

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I feel like Brandon always had an undercurrent of rivalry with Dylan. He was always cock blocking him with his twin sister (um weird and gross). He seemed  to resent him. 

Nat and his brother own the business. They both are elated Dylan is investing in it. Sweat equity and labor doesn't translate into ownership. Brandon is in various organizations and is lauded as so shrewd so I don't get why he's all butt hurt and delusional. His dad was awfully comforting to him considering Braydon was out of order in his feelings  to Dylan, plus totally rude to him last epi yelling some shit how Nat was the only adult he respected in his life. 

Jesse is so pushy. And where did Ohnnnndreah deciding to keep her baby mean it's automatically assumed they get married. 

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Donna got involved in drugs?  Was that towards the end of the show's run?  I had thankfully tapped out by then though not as soon as I should have.

Pill/painkiller addiction?

Edited by benteen

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Donna was in a car accident in season 8 or 9 and hurt her back.  Her downward spiral was swift and hilarious.  She started taking painkillers provided by Noah's brother and then steals them from her dad.  She goes all nerk-nerk, loses her job, and then gets busted.  Then it's over.  It was a strange little storyline.

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Ah.  Thanks for the info.  I think I might have seen some of it.  It does sound like a strange little storyline.

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Let's hope Donna remembers all of Kelly's Tough Love Lessons For Drug Users You Love in a couple of years when it is Kelly's drug problem we are tackling.

I absolutely loved Kelly's drug phase. The show pretty much died when she came back from rehab.

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  On 7/19/2016 at 4:05 PM, luckyroll3 said:

Please don't ever take so long to record another show!  I felt like druggie David, constantly refreshing the podcast page, to see if the new epi posted.

I never really understood what Lucinda saw in Brandon.  He's okay looking, but he's short with a big head (I sound like Mama Joyce complaining about short, big headed people!) and has no money.   

Easy to bone? I dunno. 

Funny how it was pointed out that Kelly, Donna and Dylan got involved in drugs. Like no one learned from David or Jackie at all. David learned from David. He knew the ish when Coke Kelly and Coke Colin the crappy artist happened. 

Yes, but to be fair, Valerie noticed it first and David was smart enough to know she is always correct about such things.

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  On 7/18/2016 at 5:33 PM, psychoticstate said:

This is especially ironic given how when Brenda was running off to elope with Stuart in Las Vegas, Ohhhhhhhhn-drea, with her mumsy outfit, is the one who first says how ridiculous the entire thing is.  Granted, Brenda and Stuart had known each other for 2 weeks when they got engaged and maybe a month at most here but no one brought up their opinion on  Ohhhhhhhhhn-drea sleeping with and becoming impregnated by Jesse in record time.

FWIW, I have Season 4 on DVD and in the special features is a mini-interview with Mark Damon Espinoza, who played Jessie.  He said that when he was first brought on the show, GC was 7 months pregnant.  So not only did the show really waited until the last minute to write Ohhhhhhhn-drea's pregnancy in but she was at least 7 months pregnant when Ohhhhhhhhn-drea was finding out she was pregnant.  Crazy ridiculous.  

Another extra was an interview with Charles Rosin and he said that GC had come to Aaron Spelling about wanting to start a family and he encouraged her to go ahead, not realizing that she would get pregnant immediately, like within the month.  So I guess that messed up the writers' plans.  But whatever.  .  Rosin also said that everyone connected to the show was terrified that the kids were graduating high school and Aaron wanted to keep them there but it was pointed out that GC and Ian Ziering could not pass for high school students much longer.  Ha!  (I actually think Ian was okay and he could certainly pass for a college student.  Maybe GC could have as well if they weren't dressing her like Barbara Bush.) 

Why even have the pregnancy story at that point? I mean really, it's not like it's going to get more ridiculous. I kind of thought she was maybe 5 months and just showing really early. But 7 months? You've been ignoring it this long, what's another 2 months? Give her a job in the library and sack books in front of her. Really, what was the point?

For real. It seems like they wanted her off the show and this was a great way to (clumsily) do it.

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1 hour ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

For real. It seems like they wanted her off the show and this was a great way to (clumsily) do it.

You know I could actually get behind that. Whether it was the writers or GC, Andrea wasn't gelling with the rest of the cast anymore (I'm at 75% writing and 25% GC). And for reasons I don't understand the show couldn't get a handle on who Andrea in college should be, which is ironic since her character was all about going to college. I still don't understand the strategy they seemed to have of having Andrea start and then stop things (Yale, sorority, newspapers). Having her flake on things as soon as it gets hard is such an odd way to write that character. Maybe they were going for some sort of "I worked all my life to get here, now what" plot and then she got pregnant? Everything with Andrea in college is so awkward and uncomfortable and really not fun to watch.

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*Welcome back, AWT! Never leave again please.*

Since the story was going to end with Andrea keeping the baby, it would have made more sense for her to arrive at that decision through a talk with Carol rather than through the twelve boxes of Chinese takeout. Aside from Nana and Carol being closer in age (OK I know they're not really, but still), Carol dropped out of college to have the twins.

(The Andrea character has never made sense to me and I'm annoyed that I even care about her storyline.)

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On 7/21/2016 at 3:24 PM, FozzyBear said:

You know I could actually get behind that. Whether it was the writers or GC, Andrea wasn't gelling with the rest of the cast anymore (I'm at 75% writing and 25% GC). And for reasons I don't understand the show couldn't get a handle on who Andrea in college should be, which is ironic since her character was all about going to college. I still don't understand the strategy they seemed to have of having Andrea start and then stop things (Yale, sorority, newspapers). Having her flake on things as soon as it gets hard is such an odd way to write that character. Maybe they were going for some sort of "I worked all my life to get here, now what" plot and then she got pregnant? Everything with Andrea in college is so awkward and uncomfortable and really not fun to watch.

I am re watching Season 4 now. I can't believe what happened to Andrea. I thought she got a scholarship to Yale, so the excuse about student debt didn't make sense.

Why would she drop journalism to go into pre med?

Why would she dump Dan Rubin for Jesse?

Andrea having unprotected sex & getting pregnant was even more unbelievable.

The writers  completely ruined her goody two shoes character.

It would have more sense for her to join the Condor newspaper & work with Josh.

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I'm a legit Andrea fan (apparently rare, I know),

But yeah, there were a lot of WTF choices for the character in college that had nothing to do with the baby.

Personally I think it was a great idea to write in the pregnancy. In real life sometimes the "smart" girl makes a dumb decision. There's the irony that Andrea made such a big deal about condoms in school as a virgin, and the ONE time she lets a guy go in without one is the one time she get knocked up. True to life and IMO was a really important lesson for this show to teach.

I just think the early marriage, and with Jesse (ugh) of all people, was the death knell for her. The story should've either been one where she had an abortion (perhaps too much for 1993) or gave her daughter up for adoption. Either would've given GC plenty of drama to work with, and freed Andrea up to be a more integrated cast member for S5. She was pretty popular with the cast and crew and there originally were no plans to drop her from the cast before the writers botched up her story. I never bought that a pregnancy would justify some of the horrible writing they gave.

Also Mark Espinoza has no idea what he's talking about. There's no way that Gabrielle was 7 months pregnant when he got hired. Gabrielle got pregnant sometime in late summer of 1993, prob right around the time filming began for S4.. Jesse shows up in October 1993, which means Mark was hired and shot his first episode very early on in Gabby's pregnancy.

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