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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
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Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

38 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

Jinger revealing that she hasn’t spoken to Josh in years has me curious about how many of the other 19 are estranged from each other or if they’re all just estranged from Josh. 

I'm going to guess Jinger's location had more to do with this than anything, until the last scandal. I think she likely has a holidays, weddings and funerals type of relationship with most of her siblings.

On another note, apparently Jinger addresses doubters in the book. In an interview I read she says she knows many will think she is just following Jeremy now. I do believe that is at least partially true, but I also think Jinger was somewhat open to finding a better way prior to Jeremy.

And anyway, if Jinger was able to "walk through this season of life" now, she'll be more able to move on at a later time if she so chooses.

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YupItsMe

YupItsMe

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I'm not sure that would do much, if any, more damage to the Duggar kids' marriage prospects within fundieland, than has already been done by Josh. If I were a fundie father, I'd probably be all in with JB's religious beliefs, no matter that the Duggar Crown Prince is in prison. JB said back during Joshgate I that they know many families that had experienced "the same thing," and we've seen that Joshgate I didn't stop plenty of okay marriages for the Duggarlings. I think a fundie father is going to look at the Duggar finances. So far they aren't jammed into a double-wide and JB's businesses appear to be rolling along. IMO religious issues and finances will be more important to a fundie dad looking at a Duggarling as a prospective spouse for their kid, than whatever JB and Meech do (or don't) in reaction to Jinger's book. 

Well said.

And, ^^THIS. Jill and Derick hit JB where it hurts the most: money. JB did somewhat shun Jill (banning her from the TTH without his advance approval) although she wasn't ousted from the family. I'm sure JB wishes that if Jinger wasn't going to cling to IBLP, she'd do it quietly. But this is not about JB's money. I don't see the cause of defending Bill Gothard as a hill JB is prepared to die on, even though JB and Meech were utter Gothard believers when it came to raising and educating (to use the term loosely) their kids. I"m sure JB really gloried in his time in the IBLP limelight, when he and Meech were the big stars of the IBLP family conferences. But those days seem to be gone anyway. 

I wonder what sly things Jessa's going to put on her social media in reaction to Jinger's so far well-presented and extensive book promotion campaign. Heh.

Re bolding: How long has it been since Jinger was at the TTH? I know different members of the family have visited her in CA, but when did she last visit the big house and see her Dad?

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Zella

Zella

8 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

How long ago was it when Josh and family showed up in an RV to visit Jer & Jinger in LA? Or am I remembering wrong?

I was wondering the same thing. Quick google result is pulling up fall 2019. Actually right before the raid if my dates are right. I can't remember if Jinger has been back to AR for any family weddings that would coincide with him still being out of jail. Though of course she could still attend and not speak to him. 

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lascuba

lascuba

4 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Or unheard of.  

But I don't see them shunning Jinger.  Jill is one thing because she went after JBs money.   Even though it was HERS.   Jinger is just following the family line of making money by exploiting herself.   JB will forgive a LOT if it makes money.

I agree. As ego-driven as he is, he's proven to be ruthlessly practical when it comes to money.

I also think that Jinger following her headship is a huge factor for JB. Even if he hates everything Jinger-via-Jeremy believes now, he can't quibble with her following her husband. If one of his sons had written this book, I think there's be a completely different reaction from him.

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

 

On another note, apparently Jinger addresses doubters in the book. In an interview I read she says she knows many will think she is just following Jeremy now.

Damn, that ghostwriter is good. Really researched how best to hit critics at the knees. Unlike IBLP, MacArthur clearly likes hiring smart people to work for his organization. Terrible for the world, but great for his hopes of longevity.

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

Like an earlier post on this blog stated: Jim Bob will not shun Jinger. He only shunned Jill because she and Derick asked him for Jill's share of the money. To my knowledge, Jinger hasn't asked Jim Bob for her share of the money. That man is motivated by the bucks $$$. I don't believe that Jinger is really free; she has exchanged Gothard's teachings for MacArthur's...and only MacArthurs because it is her husband's belief. MacArthur has bankrolled them too; if only offering them that house to live in for free "only for 6 months" while a seminary student...How many years did they exploit that offer? I don't wish Jinger any harm, but I don't think her book really answers any real questions. Some of her responses were vague IMO. I certainly did NOT need Jeremy sticking himself in this interview. This should have been Jinger's alone.

I think Jinger has been paid. They put down about $100k on their $200k house in Laredo. Obviously Jeremy didn't have that kind of money, since be was living in a small 2BR apartment when he met and married Jinger. That money had to come from somewhere. Jeremy made little in his soccer "career" as a backup goalie with only one year playing (well, on the bench) in a  "big time" league.

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merylinkid

merylinkid

There's a difference between JB giving them the downpayment on a house (or maybe a loan at a sweetheart interest rate) like he gave other kids houses, and Jill and Derrick DEMANDING money.   JB uses the money to control the kids.   He doles it out when, for what and for how much he wants.   With probably a side of "I can cut you off from the money spigot any time I want."   Again versus Jill and Derrick demands for HER SHARE of what SHE earned through being on the show as an adult.   Jill got the money free and clear, no strings attached.   JB will never let Jinger forget he gave her the money for the downpayment.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

15 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I think Jinger has been paid. They put down about $100k on their $200k house in Laredo. Obviously Jeremy didn't have that kind of money, since be was living in a small 2BR apartment when he met and married Jinger. That money had to come from somewhere. Jeremy made little in his soccer "career" as a backup goalie with only one year playing (well, on the bench) in a  "big time" league.

I agree. After Derick went after Jill's back pay I think JB woke up and gave each adult kid a 'pay out' to avoid any future problems.

I think most of the son's used it to start businesses and the daughters used it toward houses and of course Derick's education.

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floridamom

floridamom

Jinger didn't say in any interview that I have watched as of yet, that she has looked into being a mainstream Protestant. She went directly into Jeremy's "MacArthur" type of belief system. This tells me a lot, really, like I stated before, she went there because Jeremy directed her to do it. What would Jeremy have thought if Jinger wanted to convert to the "original Christian religion"....Catholicism? I hope one day that she wants to research and see why her husband (and his family) believe that Roman Catholics are pagans and see that it is not true. (I am a Roman Catholic.)

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

It makes sense to me Jinger slid into her husband's faith, as did most, if not all the married Duggar sisters. What is different though, is she is fully embracing it while noticing and giving up the differences from her childhood.

Jessa lives with Ben, the one who kind of woke Jinger up, yet Jessa is still doing it the Duggar way.

I would be less surprised if Jinger quit religion all together than picking a Christian church different from Jeremy. (although I would be shocked if Jinger quit religion all together)

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Tasya

Tasya

18 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

I'm a Christian, and I do not feel that religion is being attacked on this forum.  I feel people are able to express different opinions in a respectful manner.  It's true we don't respect Gothardism as we dislike what this religion has done to the children in the group.  I wouldn't say it's quite a cult such as Scientology, FLDS, or people such as Jim Jones, as people can leave it, and they're not completely separate from family members in it.  However, it is cultish.  We also aren't fond of patriarchal religions such as Gothardism and James MacArthur's Church.  Many of us have spoken positively of our religions whether Catholic, Jewish, or Lutheran (my own), etc.

ETA:  I also like to give credit to those who are agnostic or atheist posting here who are also respectful unlike in some arenas.

Gothardism is definitely a cult, however many posters here love to say that "Jinger traded one cult for another". As if her going from following Gothard to practicing another form of Christianity is also cult-like. Thus the feel as if basically posters are holding that any tenet of Christianity is a cult, because it espouses beliefs that some may not agree with it. 

As to saying that the statement re: homosexuality/cult I made a point to say that I do not feel that way myself. In fact I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin, and also in fact, it may surprise many that there are plenty of Christians and churches that embrace homosexuals and preach acceptance and tolerance for all. 

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leighdear

leighdear

19 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

 Many of us have spoken positively of our religions whether Catholic, Jewish, or Lutheran (my own), etc.

And this always amazes me.  Catholicism is patriarchal, formed around a charismatic leader, doesn't allow women to preach, rejects LGBT rights, allows almost zero reproductive freedom to women, marriage is forever in the eyes of the church, wives are to submit to their husbands and has unmarried men telling families how to live their lives, or be sent to hell.  

Sounds pretty damn Gothard-like to me.  But then, Gothard only has 7 commandments where the Catholics have 10. 

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woodscommaelle

woodscommaelle

21 hours ago, AstridM said:

Not interested in reading her ghostwritten book. 

Ok I'm glad you said this. I was beginning to think I was the only one not at all interested in her book.  I also have no interest watching any of her videos/interviews/etc. 

I'll read these boards til the end of days, though.  ;)

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leighdear

leighdear

Her book according to Amazon right now: 

Product details

ASIN ‏ : ‎ B0BGDMFYX7

Publisher ‏ : ‎ Thomas Nelson (January 31, 2023)

Publication date ‏ : ‎ January 31, 2023

Language ‏ : ‎ English

File size ‏ : ‎ 1148 KB

Simultaneous device usage ‏ : ‎ Up to 5 simultaneous devices, per publisher limits

Text-to-Speech ‏ : ‎ Enabled

Screen Reader ‏ : ‎ Supported

Enhanced typesetting ‏ : ‎ Enabled

X-Ray ‏ : ‎ Enabled

Word Wise ‏ : ‎ Enabled

Sticky notes ‏ : ‎ On Kindle Scribe

Print length ‏ : ‎ 238 pages

Page numbers source ISBN ‏ : ‎ 1400338115

Best Sellers Rank: #17 in Kindle Store (See Top 100 in Kindle Store)

#1 in TV Shows

#1 in Arts & Photography (Kindle Store)

#1 in Religion & Spirituality (Kindle Store)

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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

(edited)
23 minutes ago, leighdear said:

And this always amazes me.  Catholicism is patriarchal, formed around a charismatic leader, doesn't allow women to preach, rejects LGBT rights, allows almost zero reproductive freedom to women, marriage is forever in the eyes of the church, wives are to submit to their husbands and has unmarried men telling families how to live their lives, or be sent to hell.   Sounds pretty damn Gothard-like to me. 

I was a Catholic in my younger years.  Much of your description above doesn't coincide with what I experienced or was taught.

Quote

 

#1 in TV Shows

#1 in Arts & Photography (Kindle Store)

#1 in Religion & Spirituality (Kindle Store)

 

Wow, not too bad, Jinger.

Edited by Gemma Violet
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Lisa418722

Lisa418722

(edited)
5 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

According to this video, it looks like Jinger is very open to the possibility of sending her kids to school instead of home schooling.  She even mentioned public school.

A second video here:

 

I hope Jinger sends her kids to school. I don't care if it's a Christian school or a public school.  Jeremy will proably still be in school when Evangeline graduates from college (because it's better than actually having to get a real job). Hopefully Jinger realizes that she doesn't have the knowledge to be able to teach her kids.  I'm not against homeschooling. I am against homeschooling if the teacher doesn't have the knowldge to teach.  I know I would NEVER be able to teach my kids anything to do with science or math in particular.  It would be nice to see a Duggar grandchild have a chance of graduating from high school and going to college.  

Edited by Lisa418722
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floridamom

floridamom

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RE: some posts here regarding views/beliefs of posters here who belong to or don't belong to an organized religion...I want to thank all of you so very much for being respectful of us here who have different religious beliefs. Like stated earlier, I am a Roman Catholic. I have never read any post here which has put me down for my faith. We do a great job here of being respectful and tolerant of each other's beliefs or lack of religious belief or affiliation. Thank you all. I hope that all of my posts here, also respect everyone on this board. This is the way it should be. The Duggars and the like should take notice of what being respectful of others should look like.

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Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

From all the comments about her book, it seems like Jinger blames Gothard for everything and her parents were great.

I understand that she may not want to admit to herself and/or to the public that how bad her parents are.

But I'm also wondering what is MacArthur's views on parenting? How much authority do they have compared to the Gothard ways?

I'm asking because Jinger's book is basically propaganda for MacArthur's church, so they might not want to make parents look bad.

Or maybe I'm not making any sense LOL!

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

(edited)

Thought I was posting in this thread earlier. I said: 

From the interviews I have seen, it appears that Jinger does acknowledge fault, but she consistently blames Gothard. She seems to ignore the role her parents played in delivering the information to her. They are every bit as guilty as Gothard in terms of indoctrinating the kids.

Jinger is a people pleaser. She throws Gothard under the bus (deservedly), but just can't betray her parents. She says she had a great childhood. I guess that's in spite of the anxiety, fear, molestation, and constant indoctrination.

Edited by Salacious Kitty
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Zella

Zella

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(edited)

I don't think Jinger is able to assign her parents guilt, and she may never be able to do so.

I had a friend in college who grew up in really dysfunctional circumstances. She joked about it a lot and would make fun of her family for being weird, but what she described was The Glass Castle or Educated levels of shit. It was one of those things where she'd be telling us what she thought was a funny story and everyone else would get really quiet because it wasn't funny or cute or quirky. 

The more she talked, the more it became clear to me that her mother had a severe undiagnosed or unmedicated mental illness, and she basically just allowed her children to be neglected and abused by a series of male partners and while the kids also stepped up to keep the house running. Her family were not uneducated hicks, by the way. They were very well-educated and had been pretty affluent before her mother became paranoid and decided to "go off the grid." My friend coped by hiding in her room and retreating into art and creative writing. 

Now, my mother was an enabler of abuse, too, so we had this in common.

I didn't realize how differently we saw our mothers, though, until a discussion about Angela's Ashes (in which another friend and I were arguing that Angela was not a great parent either because she enabled their dad). My friend absolutely exploded and started screaming at us that as long as you love your kids, it doesn't matter what you do to them. My other friend and I were appalled and kept trying to calmly point out to her how gross that argument was, but she just got even more angry and upset. I'd never seen her that emotional about anything, and we finally just had to drop the conversation. 

It occurred to me that this was not about Frank McCourt's mother--she was defending her own mother. I've not spoken to her in a long time. I very intentionally let us drift apart after graduation because there were a lot of things about the friendship that made me uncomfortable, but I'm not sure she will ever be able to acknowledge that what her mother did to her kids was not okay. Because to do so is, in her mind, saying her mother didn't love her. I think it's very possible her mom did really love her but that she was not able to be the parent her kids needed her to be, but even that was something my friend was not willing to accept when it came to her mom. 

I suspect Jinger has a similar thought pattern when it comes to her parents. She can blame Gothard all day long because she recognizes that the situation was not okay. But she can't recognize her parents' own role in it because that's just a bridge she can't cross when it comes to how she sees her parents. 

Edited by Zella
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BetyBee

BetyBee

@ZellaI've read all of those books and saw some similarities (to a much lesser extent) to my own haphazard upbringing. I think you are exactly right about why Jinger seems to be leaving out her parent's responsibility for raising their kids Gothard style. They are just as much at fault, perhaps more so since the 19 kids are theirs! How I would love to see JB & MEchelle admit the error of their ways. But that will never happen. And she will continue to "honor her father and mother". I get it. She loves them, despite their flaws. 

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AstridM

AstridM

3 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

From all the comments about her book, it seems like Jinger blames Gothard for everything and her parents were great.

I understand that she may not want to admit to herself and/or to the public that how bad her parents are.

But I'm also wondering what is MacArthur's views on parenting? How much authority do they have compared to the Gothard ways?

I'm asking because Jinger's book is basically propaganda for MacArthur's church, so they might not want to make parents look bad.

Or maybe I'm not making any sense LOL!

You’re making perfect sense and I agree.

3 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Thought I was posting in this thread earlier. I said: 

From the interviews I have seen, it appears that Jinger does acknowledge fault, but she consistently blames Gothard. She seems to ignore the role her parents played in delivering the information to her. They are every bit as guilty as Gothard in terms of indoctrinating the kids.

Jinger is a people pleaser. She throws Gothard under the bus (deservedly), but just can't betray her parents. She says she had a great childhood. I guess that's in spite of the anxiety, fear, molestation, and constant indoctrination.

And likely physical punishment.

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Zella

Zella

6 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

@ZellaI've read all of those books and saw some similarities (to a much lesser extent) to my own haphazard upbringing. I think you are exactly right about why Jinger seems to be leaving out her parent's responsibility for raising their kids Gothard style. They are just as much at fault, perhaps more so since the 19 kids are theirs! How I would love to see JB & MEchelle admit the error of their ways. But that will never happen. And she will continue to "honor her father and mother". I get it. She loves them, despite their flaws. 

Yeah I had my own moments in college where I was telling people stories about my childhood that seemed normal to me that were met with "Um, that's not okay--that's not normal!" I'm still unpacking all that well in my thirties. I had a lot of sympathy for my friend, but that moment where she said you could do anything and it was okay profoundly disturbed me. To be honest, it still makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it. She's an intelligent, well-read person who has a much more robust intellect than I suspect poor Jinger has. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

(edited)

I see it a little differently. Jinger knows, JB&M know, and we all know Gothard did not raise her, her siblings and other IBLP kids - her/their parents did.

Jinger also is acknowledging that in spite of the way was she was raised her childhood wasn't completely awful. Those two things can be true. This family was on TV for more than a decade talking about many of the things that made Jinger anxious. We all heard about blanket training, instant obedience, purity, accountability partners, courtships, period calendars, countenance, modesty, umbrella of authority, J.O.Y., etc. But we also saw two (albeit religiously zealous) bumbling fools who appeared to love their children. I'm guessing that is the way Jinger sees it as well.

Edited by GeeGolly
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BetyBee

BetyBee

Most of their lives were lived off camera and the kids probably had fun playing together. I think she loves most of her siblings and doesn't want to lose her relationships with them by publicly denouncing her parents. My siblings mean the world to me and I'm thankful that most of the world has no interest in us! The public eye is a tricky thing.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I think its kind of unfair to demand Jinger hate her parents to legitimize this big step she has taken. I also think its unfair to demand she denounce all kinds of conservative Christianity to believe she has any independent thoughts.

Jinger is condemning Gothard and IBLP, a faith she admits her parents and siblings still follow. She is calling the faith damaging and says she hopes her book gives others insight and the courage to leave.

That is pretty remarkable to me.

 

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SMama

SMama

(edited)

So far Jill, Amy, and Deanna have publicly supported Jinger and her book. Would any other siblings support her publicly? I don’t care how many may have contacted her privately to offer support. It takes guts to do what Jinger and Jill have done.

Jessa, I’m looking at you. Jinger is not only your bestie (allegedly) but it was Ben who helped her begin to question the status quo. It really shows the (financial?) hold JB has on his adult children. The siblings can publicly support their sister without condemning the parents. It speaks volumes that so far no one has dared. 

Edited by SMama
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

10 minutes ago, SMama said:

So far Jill, Amy, and Deanna have publicly supported Jinger and her book. Would any other siblings support her publicly? I don’t care how many may have contact her privately to offer support. It takes guts to do what Jinger and Jill have done.

Jessa, I’m looking at you. Jinger is not only your bestie (allegedly) but it was Ben who helped her begin to question the status quo. It really shows the (financial?) hold JB has on his adult children. The siblings can publicly support their sister without condemning the parents. It speaks volumes that so far no one has dared. 

Would/should they publicly support her book if they're still following IBLP?

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lascuba

lascuba

15 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

From all the comments about her book, it seems like Jinger blames Gothard for everything and her parents were great.

I understand that she may not want to admit to herself and/or to the public that how bad her parents are.

But I'm also wondering what is MacArthur's views on parenting? How much authority do they have compared to the Gothard ways?

I'm asking because Jinger's book is basically propaganda for MacArthur's church, so they might not want to make parents look bad.

Or maybe I'm not making any sense LOL!

I get what you're saying. While I agree with the comments about the complications and messiness of dysfunctional families, Jinger's book is still primarily propaganda. Not only that, but there has to be some element of self-preservation in her (or her MacArthur assigned ghost writer's) refusal to condemn her parents. Not in the sense that there's concern over what they'd do to her, but that her audience might turn on her.

Jinger occupies a highly specific niche. Her fanbase largely consists of fans of her family as a whole--she can only go so far in her critiques without alienating them. The people who want to see her be "free" are by and large uninterested in hearing about a different fundie version of Christianity. Even if she believed that her parents are awful (and I agree with those who say she likely does not), she can't say that and continue to earn an income as a super conservative Christian influencer.

 

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MamaMax

MamaMax

On 2/1/2023 at 2:57 PM, floridamom said:

Jinger didn't say in any interview that I have watched as of yet, that she has looked into being a mainstream Protestant. She went directly into Jeremy's "MacArthur" type of belief system. This tells me a lot, really, like I stated before, she went there because Jeremy directed her to do it. What would Jeremy have thought if Jinger wanted to convert to the "original Christian religion"....Catholicism? I hope one day that she wants to research and see why her husband (and his family) believe that Roman Catholics are pagans and see that it is not true. (I am a Roman Catholic.)

I recall video of Jeremy preaching about saving the heathen, evil Catholics in Texas.  What an asshole. 

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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