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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
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Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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Pingaponga

Pingaponga

I have a friend whose husband was the pastor of a fundamentalist church.  Being pastor didn't mean he had to be at church every single Sunday to preach, as the Church Elders would have others to come in and preach on a very regular basis. Pastor did not equal preacher.  But as pastor, he got to live in a house free of charge, and was expected to give pastoral care to the congregants as requested.

Then it came out that he had been disbarred (he had been a lawyer before being asked to become pastor of his church - no background in religious studies required), and the church gave them less than three weeks to clear out of the house.  Now, almost ten years later, he preaches 2-3 Sundays a month at two different churches.  (I found all of this quite bizarre, as I'm Anglican.  To be a minister in the Anglican Church, you need a 4-year undergraduate degree and then a Masters in Theology in a university-accredited Divinity School. And as the Church is very structured, I'd would be known if someone got turfed for bad behaviour.)

Point is - it's quite possible that at Jeremy's church his position is as Pastor, and as such it doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot if he misses a lot of Sunday services. His job may be to provide pastor care and some sermons, and preachers are welcome for the Sundays he isn't there.

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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
31 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

I have a friend whose husband was the pastor of a fundamentalist church.  Being pastor didn't mean he had to be at church every single Sunday to preach, as the Church Elders would have others to come in and preach on a very regular basis. Pastor did not equal preacher.  But as pastor, he got to live in a house free of charge, and was expected to give pastoral care to the congregants as requested.

Then it came out that he had been disbarred (he had been a lawyer before being asked to become pastor of his church - no background in religious studies required), and the church gave them less than three weeks to clear out of the house.  Now, almost ten years later, he preaches 2-3 Sundays a month at two different churches.  (I found all of this quite bizarre, as I'm Anglican.  To be a minister in the Anglican Church, you need a 4-year undergraduate degree and then a Masters in Theology in a university-accredited Divinity School. And as the Church is very structured, I'd would be known if someone got turfed for bad behaviour.)

Point is - it's quite possible that at Jeremy's church his position is as Pastor, and as such it doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot if he misses a lot of Sunday services. His job may be to provide pastor care and some sermons, and preachers are welcome for the Sundays he isn't there.

That might well be true.

That's not the way he portrayed it on his website when he had it, though.

He described the church life very clearly as revolving around him and his sermons. And he never mentioned one tiny word about anybody else coming in and preaching. Obviously, they DID. Constantly, it seemed. But according to that website it was ALL HIM.

Plus, Jer didn't seem to be providing much pastoral care  For much of his tenure, he's been out of town at least as much on the other six days of the week as he has been on Sundays. And except for one or two baptisms, I've never seen him mention anything pastoral-care-related. It's always just about the days and days he spends preparing those sermons. So HIS focus is very much on the preaching. 

To me there's also a disjoint between the Jer approach and the approach portrayed by his supposed mentor, Tim Conway, of Grace Community Church in San Antonio, who took Jer in as one of his fledgling pastors, possibly at the behest of Jer's dad, and put him into the plant church in Laredo.

Now I don't know if Conway has always lived up to his own words, either. But he started the San Antonio Church from scratch and built it up, too, and he makes a BIG deal in talks and online about the massive amount of responsibility the pastor of a plant church has. How it's a requirement that that person be deeply and constantly involved with the congregation and other leaders, working together to grow it from something small and weak into something big and strong. And I don't see evidence that Jer follows that. (And I frankly doubt that he modestly keeps his real work out of sight. He doesn't seem likely to be hiding any of his lights under bushels to me.)

And Conway's website also lists and pictures the other guys who work in the church, the elders and deacons and guest preachers and so on. So he gives them credit. Again. not what Jer did. At all. 

Now it's quite possible that they're all mainly counting on the TeeVee fame to build that Laredo church. But that still means Jer's getting way more of a free ride than pastors generally get. That's okay, I guess. But if I were he, I wouldn't expect that to last for my whole career. ... Because unless he's the luckiest person on the planet, it's not going to. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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lascuba

lascuba

21 hours ago, BitterApple said:

If Jeremy wants to hit the big-time I wonder if he'll shift his style from suppository preaching to lifestyle guru with a touch of Jesus, similar to Rick Warren or Joel Osteen. 

I looked up his church's FB page and the clips of his sermons were putting me into a coma. He recites a bunch of verses, waves his hands and strings words together but it's all white noise. Nothing really resonates with the audience (or I should say, at least it didn't with me). 

He'd have to if he were to have any chance of success, though like someone else said, it's takes a an innate skill set that  Jeremy doesn't possess. It'd be much easier to be a Joel Osteen type and appeal to moderates. 

19 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

You're much kinder than I would be. I have zero tolerance for proselytizing.

I hate it so much. I must have "gullible fool needing Jesus" tattooed on my forehead, because I get approached a LOT. It took me years to learn that politeness is the wrong strategy, because they take advantage and never leave, so now I'm immediately rude. If Jinger or another Duggar were to try it with me, I'd let loose with the meanest shit I could come up with. 

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Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

1 hour ago, Pingaponga said:

(I found all of this quite bizarre, as I'm Anglican.  To be a minister in the Anglican Church, you need a 4-year undergraduate degree and then a Masters in Theology in a university-accredited Divinity School.)

 

This! I'm from a Catholic country, so the notion that someone can become a pastor with no education/training is just bizarre. 

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Zella

Zella

One of the Pentecostal preachers I knew as a kid was illiterate. He's in his 50s now and readily admitted he just didn't apply himself in school. He learned to read in his 40s. His reading level remains quite basic and he's very proud of the fact he's only ever read the Bible.  Even as a child, it horrified me that he was so proud of his ignorance. I started reading when I was 2. I cannot fathom a world without books. But he thinks it's a point in his favor.

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Temperance

Temperance

In Colonial America, the only profession you needed a college degree for was a minister.  It was against the law to be a preacher/pastor/religious authority, etc. with credentials to back them up. Old universities like Yale and Harvard started a divinity schools.     MLK (Jr.) had a doctorate in divinity. Catholic priests tend to be educated.

As for Jeremy and Jinger, it seems very normal for a priest or minister etc. to travel for a wedding. Jeremy does seem to travel a lot, especially on Sundays. 

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MMEButterfly

MMEButterfly

22 minutes ago, Temperance said:

In Colonial America, the only profession you needed a college degree for was a minister.  It was against the law to be a preacher/pastor/religious authority, etc. with credentials to back them up. Old universities like Yale and Harvard started a divinity schools.     MLK (Jr.) had a doctorate in divinity. Catholic priests tend to be educated.

As for Jeremy and Jinger, it seems very normal for a priest or minister etc. to travel for a wedding. Jeremy does seem to travel a lot, especially on Sundays. 

The main line churches seem to require at least one graduate degree. MButterfly and I are both retired UM pastors and that is true for us. It is so hard for me to understand how one preaches with authority or counsels with appropriate skills without education.

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Christina87

Christina87

4 hours ago, Zella said:

One of the Pentecostal preachers I knew as a kid was illiterate. He's in his 50s now and readily admitted he just didn't apply himself in school. He learned to read in his 40s. His reading level remains quite basic and he's very proud of the fact he's only ever read the Bible.  Even as a child, it horrified me that he was so proud of his ignorance. I started reading when I was 2. I cannot fathom a world without books. But he thinks it's a point in his favor.

I thought you said you couldn't fathom a "word" without books, and that's true for me. I see every word I think or say written out in my head. Sometimes the font is different, and sometimes the colors are different. My psychology professor said he thought it was a form of synesthesia!

2 hours ago, MMEButterfly said:

The main line churches seem to require at least one graduate degree. MButterfly and I are both retired UM pastors and that is true for us. It is so hard for me to understand how one preaches with authority or counsels with appropriate skills without education.

Woot woot! United Methodist here. ???

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Tabbygirl521

Tabbygirl521

(edited)
On 9/29/2018 at 5:52 PM, BitterApple said:

If Jeremy wants to hit the big-time I wonder if he'll shift his style from suppository preaching to lifestyle guru with a touch of Jesus, similar to Rick Warren or Joel Osteen. 

I looked up his church's FB page and the clips of his sermons were putting me into a coma. He recites a bunch of verses, waves his hands and strings words together but it's all white noise. Nothing really resonates with the audience (or I should say, at least it didn't with me). 

Is suppository preaching where the recipient suggests the preacher shove it somewhere? 

ETA: heh, I just caught up in the thread. I get it now. 

Edited by Tabbygirl521
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

He appears to be a traveling guest preacher. #jeremy'sgoals

https://www.facebook.com/RichardOwenRoberts/

He seems to be a student of the many Christian revivals that have happened, especially in the U.S. He worked for Billy Graham, too.

I think he mostly gives talks about revivals as being the heart of Christianity and the fact that there hasn't really been one since the early 20th century when the fundamentalists grew in strength and began claiming their own power in opposition to the mainline churches and stuff like the Social Gospel. .............

I expect that this recent anti-social-gospel movement that spurred the letter that Jer signed is part of an attempt by some Protestant conservatives (especially the Calvinists, maybe?) to get another big revival going....After all, it's been over a hundred years.....They'd be talking about a new very widespread enthusiasm for Christianity as a personal infusion of the spirit and a turning away from anything that reeks of linking faith with involvement in the world (social justice), or "works" (I'm looking at you, Catholics), and so on. 

And obviously, guys like Jer and the other Duggar adjacents are going to be heavily in favor of that -- because their job security would be MUCH better if we had another big one of those. lol

The  history I've read recently suggests that, far from being some spontaneous movement of Christ into American hearts, as folks like Owen see them, the revivals ("great awakenings" and such) have mostly been engineered in a very determined way by small groups of preachers who were very gifted at firing people up -- but were therefore a bit limited in their actual geographical scope because you needed to be in the vicinity of these preachers to get the full effect....

And, worse for Owen's and Jer's hopes (if these historical theories are true), the revivals didn't really have very long-lasting effects on making people act like Christians or even feel very inspired by the faith they'd enthusiastically embraced in the revival meetings. Most people fell away well before a decade had passed, according to several books I've read in the past year .... Now in our day, media might change some of that, I suppose, since you might be less dependent on individual in-person charisma to push it. You might be able to get it online (although maybe not, too) ............(Neither Jer (not Der nor Bin nor any of the Duggarling aspiring preacher-mechanics) will be helping in the charisma department, I'd just say.)

Edited by Churchhoney
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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

How does traveling guest preacher work? Does the church pay for all your expenses in addition to a speaking fee? I grew up Catholic, so this is all new to me.

Yes the church that invited the preacher would pay transportation costs and find a way to house and feed the preacher while there.  It would depend on the size of the church and the fame of the preacher if he would receive a speaking fee in addition to that.  Catholics do have visiting priests that help to fill in depending on the diocese.  My church will get one to help cover for my priest's vacations and retreats.  Usually my parish on pays for transportation in these cases.  The priest would stay in the rectory and parishioners would take the priest out to dinner.  Then the second collection is for whatever order or charity  the priest works for.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

17 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Me too. Priests are very well educated.

Yup, as in the Anglican church, Catholic priests have a Master's of divinity, at minimum, before ordination.  I don't know too many young priests who haven't also returned to school for other advanced degrees, whether MBA's or law or even PhD studies in religion.  Being a pastor and running a church these days is a mighty big undertaking and the Church, for all its many flaws, encourages higher education for its priests.

Jeremy as a bachelor's degree and is seemingly working on his Master's of Divinity; but, at least in the Catholic Church, he wouldn't even  be qualified to be on staff, let alone pastor of a congregation.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

13 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Too lazy to google this guy, but apparently Jeremy thought it more important to visit him (and his library) than preach to his flock.

Anyone wanna bet that every single one of the 300,000 books in this dude's library espouse the exact same narrow religious POV that he and Jeremy have?  And that any of them that mention any other faith and its tenets only does so to tell the reader why these beliefs are false and heretical and anyone following them is going to hell?  I am not impressed that some narrow minded preacher has collected 300,000 books which are undoubtedly only about the rightness of his narrow-mindedness.

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Christina87

Christina87

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

I hope Jinger gets to eat pizza too. But i doubt it,

I know! I noticed Jinger was not eating pizza when those kids came over that they babysat. Looked like she had a salad or something. She is so incredibly thin; I hope she genuinely WANTED the salad, or just had pizza the night before, or something like that. I really hope she doesn't feel she has to have a celebrity snap back body to impress Jeremy, or that he won't love her if she gets above waif levels. 

1 hour ago, Spencer Hastings said:

Jinger sure is loving the city for someone who only wanted to live in a city big enough for a Walmart. Maybe Jeremy will land a pastor job in a big city for her and she can live out her dreams. 

I would love that! Living in a city is the only dream she has ever expressed. I hope she gets it!

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Christina87

Christina87

Maybe there is hope for her if she ate Arby's and was excited about it. My anorexic friend used to have a total aversion to "bad" food; she avoided it like poison. If someone was concerned about her, she would eat like one bite, but she looked as grossed out as if she were eating s***. If Jinger had Arby's and was truly thrilled about it, maybe there is hope after all!

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floridamom

floridamom

Help me out here ladies....my children were on formula so I don't know this. Since Jinger is nursing Felicity, is it a good idea for her to avoid carbs? I notice during the shower and gender reveal she ate NONE. She was expecting at the time. Would Felicity be getting enough nutrition from a stick-thin mother who's nursing and not eating any carbs?

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lucy711

lucy711

12 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Help me out here ladies....my children were on formula so I don't know this. Since Jinger is nursing Felicity, is it a good idea for her to avoid carbs? I notice during the shower and gender reveal she ate NONE. She was expecting at the time. Would Felicity be getting enough nutrition from a stick-thin mother who's nursing and not eating any carbs?

I would say no.  A nursing mother should eat a healthy and balanced diet and someone thin like Jinger should eat more than usual to keep her supply up.  I'm built like Jinger- I am petite and slender.  I lost weight during nursing while eating as much as I did before pregnancy because my body was using so many calories to produce milk to keep up with my hungry son.  If Jinger isn't eating carbs, she will waste away to nothing and probably have milk supply issues.  I was eating a lot and was down to 95 lbs at one point (I'm normally 110).  I looked sickly.  She needs to eat!

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yogi2014L

yogi2014L

10 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Help me out here ladies....my children were on formula so I don't know this. Since Jinger is nursing Felicity, is it a good idea for her to avoid carbs? I notice during the shower and gender reveal she ate NONE. She was expecting at the time. Would Felicity be getting enough nutrition from a stick-thin mother who's nursing and not eating any carbs?

It is not recommended to eat at a caloric deficit while nursing as your supply will likely tank. 

As long as baby is gaining weight/having enough wet diapers she's probably fine. However i have no idea how she can avoid carbs while nursing I am ravenously hungry ( my baby is 3 mo old). way hungrier than when I was pregnant. 

Also many women get super skinny while nursing without trying. My sister gets really really thin when she nurses and she doesn't restrict her diet at all. So we probably won't know if Jinger is thin because she always has been thin, is thin from nursing, or is cutting carbs to lose weight while nursing.

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leighdear

leighdear

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(edited)

Not eating bread, hot dogs and pizza could be a problem with gluten.  And yes, there's gluten-free stuff everywhere, but rarely in street food they show them enjoying.  There are carbs in every fruit and vegetable, plus most dairy products and natural grains.  Not eating pizza does not mean having an eating disorder and avoiding carbs.  Plus, she's always been thin.  At least in the years I've seen their shows.

Considering she was raised to eat canned and frozen crap, covered with potatoes, gloppy soup, fake cheese and other processed garbage, she may just like REAL food. 

And I cannot stand having my photo taken while I eat, so possibly THAT is why we never see her stuffing her face with Jill-recipe food.  I think she just prefers to take the photos.  I think it's one of her few passions.  

Edited by leighdear
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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

6 hours ago, leighdear said:

Not eating bread, hot dogs and pizza could be a problem with gluten.  And yes, there's gluten-free stuff everywhere, but rarely in street food they show them enjoying.  There are carbs in every fruit and vegetable, plus most dairy products and natural grains.  Not eating pizza does not mean having an eating disorder and avoiding carbs.  Plus, she's always been thin.  At least in the years I've seen their shows.

Considering she was raised to eat canned and frozen crap, covered with potatoes, gloppy soup, fake cheese and other processed garbage, she may just like REAL food. 

And I cannot stand having my photo taken while I eat, so possibly THAT is why we never see her stuffing her face with Jill-recipe food.  I think she just prefers to take the photos.  I think it's one of her few passions.  

I agree with you. Jinger has always been slim- some ladies are just slim! Not an eating disorder or anything of that nature.

If I was being filmed I wouldn’t want to eat normally either, too afraid of food in my teeth or someone getting a screenshot that’s very unattractive.

Also, Jinger’s face (even at her thinnest) always looked healthy and filled out, that indicates to me she’s eating just fine. 

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Lunera

Lunera

20 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Also, Jinger’s face (even at her thinnest) always looked healthy and filled out, that indicates to me she’s eating just fine. 

Idk, there was a time during her teen years, when she was in heavy into the fake bake, I noticed that she was scary skinny. I wouldn't be surprised if a few of those girls had eating disorders in the past knowing Michelle's past and their fundie culture encouraging being thin. I'm pretty sure Michelle even dragged Jana with her to get on weight watchers.

Screenshot_20181002-214359.thumb.jpg.3a4685749f3457568a1a1d8dffa0cca4.jpg

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Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

Jinger sure missed an opportunity to have some of the most amazing food in the world while in Chicago. There are restaurants on every corner downtown and all the could find is an Arby's yuck! I know that the Duggars have an aversion to fresh, ethnic foods but come on your in Chicago live and eat some pasta, pizza (thin, thick, deep dish or stuffed), burgers (amazing ones at Kuma's Corner), and a Chicago style hotdog.

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Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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