S07.E05: No Access

[NikSac]

I remember him saying and believing that the more she walked...the stronger her body would stay and could keep the illness at bay.  He was adamant about it because he was scared and let's be honest, not very educated just in general and in particular about about all things medical.  However, Corey and his family seem quite educated now.  He is the one saying that Ali's treatments and physical therapy are so important and cannot be missed.  I see him creating a home that is accommodating for her.  I don't see him ripping Ali up off the ground by her arm socket when she falls down.  

 

I have such a hard time with all of this because it's almost too close to home. As a kid the disease I had did attack my muscles more the more I used them - hence causing more damage, like Ali. The difference is when it went into remission (which Ali's won't) I was supposed to exercise as much as possible to retain/grow muscles. Even with the information, it's confusing. As a kid I just remember being told not to move as much as possible, then months later to exercise as hard as I could. I'm glad the information seems to be sinking in for Corey and possibly Leah, but even then it's still going to confuse Ali. I was thinking about it earlier and remembering how excited she was to have so much freedom when she first tried out that motorized wheelchair. I can't even believe they don't have her using it yet. I don't follow the girls that closely on FB/Twitter/etc. but it seems like she's not even using it currently, which is infuriating.

 

And YES so much to Leah yanking Ali's arm out of her socket. Also, getting all pissed off about her "damn glasses," carrying her around like a sack of potatoes at the motel an episode or two ago, and moving to an inaccessible home. It seems like the older the girls get the more Leah lashes out at Ali, from what we're seeing on the show. It's heartbreaking.

[ReadMeLattice]

Ok so I had my wisdom teeth out this morning, so this may or may not be the most coherent thing I've ever said...so I apologize in advance

But as far as sleep training Kaiser, one of the first rules of sleep training is ensuring the child is safe and not in pain, it's true that timelines and editing are often tricky so that gives Jenelle a slight sliver of doubt I guess, but more often than not we've seen Jenelle tend toward neglect so I'm more apt to believe she dumped Kaiser in there more for her convenience than the purpose of sleep training, I could be wrong though, I guess there is a first for everything.

I'm not trying to start an argument or continue one, tbh I'm a little nervous to say this because I feel like people are being jumped on for expressing their opinion...but I am genuinely confused, while Corey has for sure been in denial about Ali's illness, I'm not sure I'm willing to say he has so much so to the neglectful end of things, and I really have never heard him imply Ali is damaged and better off dead... I am heavily medicated so I might have misunderstood that statement.

Finally Leah telling by the girls about the baby, I have 2 issues with this, one being I do not subscribe to the school of thought that one should always need to be explicitly told to be a decent human being. We have no idea if Jeff had persmission to post or not, so maybe that was a mistake on his part...but just because Leah saw it on social media did not make it ok to tell the girls, pretty sure the same could be said for her if Corey told the girls about all the stuff about Leah currently on social media, is that all fair game because it's on social media? But ok let's say perhaps she made a mistake or had a lapse of judgement as well, I can forgive that, maybe she honestly saw no issue with letting the girls know, fine... BUT that leads me to number 2...she used it as an opportunity to also belittle Corey and Miranda, saying multiple times "they should have called you first" and making sure the girls felt slighted in that... She could have said something like I'm sure they'll call as soon as they can, or given her I know how hard babies are speech, but no she made sure to make a dig at Corey and Miranda, and that is more my issue than simply telling the girls.

No one said this. The other poster was referring to the fact that there is an idea that in the minds of many people in the U.S., disability is akin to or worse than death, though they would certainly not say this explicitly. Statements that imply that anything else they might do is not as important as if they, say, became able-bodied, or that risking their health (like they did in pushing Ali to keep walking) or wasting their life with endless appointments/therapy is OK as long as it MIGHT lead to some smaller tiny baby step towards able-bodiedness (for example, people throw away their entire life savings and quit their jobs to go to places like Project Walk and are lauded as heroes--just because they can now sort of walk--while people with disabilities who work and have extensive careers/lives are not as impressive because, after all, they still can't walk), also imply that a life with a disability is not worth living or is not a real life/is indeed 'worse than death' or is death itself. The idea that a wheelchair is akin to weakness, a downward spiral, or a 'sign' of some sort of imminent death, for example, is a sign of this exact damaging stereotype/concept. Not the same as saying someone 'would be better off dead,' that would be crazy reductive.

 

I also think part of the issue is that none of these people are bright. It's not like they can think about things in any sort of nuanced way.

 

And yeah, sleep training=fine, Jenelle's 'sleep training' is as terrifying and abusive as everything else she does.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Lm2162

[leighroda]

I wish I could upvote this a million times, but I can't.

As a person born with a disability myself, and one who uses a manual wheelchair full-time for mobility:

1. I have lived independently my entire adult life.

2. I worked full-time for a major commercial airline for 22 years

3. I have been the single mom to my soon-to-turn 20 year old daughter since the day she was born

4. I have cared for her physically, emotionally, and financially - alone - her entire life (she's currently enrolled in college out-of-state)

5. I have traveled throughout the US and Europe

6. Drive a VW Beetle Convertible, love to cook, know how to sew just about everything

7. Love men (and have had several love me back).

8. Take care of my house, do all my shopping - myself

9. Care for my two fur-babies and bun-bun

Etc.

So yes, I am just as angry at Corey and his feeling that having a disability somehow makes his daughter "less than." He's one that has apparently bought into the "better dead than disabled" crap and I have no patience for that garbage. HOW you get from point "A" to point "B" is irrelevant. It's what you do once you get there that counts. Independence is what is important. For some people, using a wheelchair allows them to be more independent. People who think just because someone uses a wheelchair they are more disabled (and therefore, more dependent) than someone who can walk - are very wrong.

This was the post I was referring to, I don't know how to quote only a portion of text on the phone but the comment I was referring to said "he's (Corey) one that's apparently bought into the "better dead than disabled crap"" so in my opinion (which I clearly stated was my opinion and that I could be wrong) that is a pretty clear statement that implies Corey feels that way, which I have never seen him imply that. That is a huge jump to make from denial to him thinking Ali being disabled may as well be dead, and that was what I was questioning. There is no question that he (understandibly) was in denial, but I have never heard him express anything close to preferring death over disability. And this was exactly what I meant about being hesitant to post a differing opinion.

[ReadMeLattice]

Right, that's what I was responding to--it's not an issue of opinion,I'm just clarifying what she said. In the disabled community it's a common theme and common complaint to which she is referring, so I was clarifying...i.e., the things people communicate to disabled people without explicitly saying it ("wow, if I had to deal with what you had to I don't know if I could go on!" Or devaluing a wedding unless you are walking at it, etc). that's why she said he's "bought into it" (the common form of prejudice/discrimination experienced by disabled people that subtly implies their lives are akin to death), not that he said those literal words. That form of discrimination is what I was explaining. It's only a "pretty clear statement" on her part if you don't know about that discussion among people with disabilities and their loved ones about their experiences of dismissal and discrimination, so I was explaining what that discussion/reference is. I understand why you would make the jump to "preferring death over disability," but that's not what is meant by that reference.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Lm2162

[SPLAIN]

Not sure why some are feeling worried for posting their opinions. What has changed? We were a snarky group. Don't hold back. Post away. : )

Here is my opinion.

it was definitely selfish to keep her out of a chair so that he didn't have to see her in it

Maybe I am reading this differently than what you meant, but I cannot disagree more.

I hope that means something else because I just cannot wrap my head around the idea Cory deliberately kept his child out of her chair so he could be spared from having to see her in it.

Jenelle dumping her child in a crib because she cannot bother tending to him does not even begin to look as if she is sleep training him. I suppose her giving him a full hot dog to eat was her way of training him to fend for himself. Unbelievable.

[crazychicken]

I have not seen the early episodes for a while now but I thought original recommendation for the wheelchair was for sustained activities like longer outings and days she is already tired etc and that in normal play she was encouraged to do as much as she could without tiring herself.While I am not certain on Ali's form from my understanding mild excercise is good for the longer term prognosis, children are encouraged to build as much muscle as they can before they reach their peek at about 7, this helps with muscle contractions and staying mobile longer. Now that we see Ali falling so much I do see a need for her to use her wheelchair in more everyday activities to conserve her energy and hope it reappears soon. I do not hold out much hope for it to be used as Leah can't even summon the energy to feed the girls or brush their hair, so if it comes back it will probably remain in her car as it would be too much effort for Leah to load and unload it.

[blubld43]

But let's keep in mind that he was going through a roller coaster of emotions right on camera and that possibly he wasn't in the best frame of mind.

 

Thanks for eloquently saying exactly what I was thinking while reading all these posts.  Corey getting custody of his daughters, his reaction on learning of the judges decision, tells me all I need to know.  The way he made it clear that it was the girls who actually "won".

And special thanks to @Twirlygirl for sharing your personal experience.  I'll remember your words next time I see someone in a wheelchair!

[shelley1234]

I honestly think there is some personal experiences with being differently able and putting it on Corey.  I haven't seen that mentality that being in a wheelchair makes her less from him.  There are a lot of things I could fault Corey with, but that's not one of them.  

[CofCinci]

Corey was a young, uneducated father when he first learned of his daughter's condition. He has grown so much over the course of these last 6/7? He is absolved of his early ignorance by his current fatherly actions. He's a class act.

Leah, on the other hand, is a complete mess without any growth.

[Lexie]

I think Cory was thinking she would decline faster if she was relying on the chair. The mentality that she could build up her muscles. This is his little girl, he was holding on to hope imo

Leah basically accepted it but she is not handling it well and that is understandable

Edited April 14, 2016 by Lexie

[TeeMo]

Considering that in a previous episode we saw Jenelle pull Kaiser out of his high chair and throw him in his crib after announcing she wasn't going to bother to wipe the hot dog grease off his hands or face because his crying was so annoying, I think it is safe to say that Jenelle is not practicing any kind of methodical, thought out sleep training program that would involve a caring bedtime routine.

Edited April 14, 2016 by TeeMo

[The Mighty Peanut]

I want to take Kaiser and rock him and feed him some real food and do the whole "here's the airplane going into the hangar" routine and just let him enjoy being a freaking baby instead of pushing him into survival mode before he's out of diapers.

 

I honestly could see Jenelle setting him in the middle of road and telling him to learn his way around town, bud. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I think Cory was thinking she would decline faster if she was relying on the chair. The mentality that she could build up her muscles. This is his little girl, he was holding on to hope imo

Leah basically accepted it but she is not handling it well and that is understandable

Right, and going directly against the doctor's suggestions in doing so.

Corey's statements were out of a lack of education. Just as a parent who truly believes it will send their child to Hell to be gay is only trying to help, but it is still homophobic. His statements were still ableist. But hopefully he has indeed changed. And nowhere did anyone say he "thinks she is less than him."

[Lexie]

Cory didn't ever refuse the chair tho. The point of contention was that Leah wanted to call and harass the insurance agency and couldn't because it wasn't her policy. He did what was asked of him and it was in the hands of the insurance at the time. This is his daughter, the doctor is removed from the situation. You really can't compare his train of thought with what the doctor said. He needed time to process it and maybe he is still hoping for a miracle. Cory is definitely one of the better dads on the show. All of their drama now is because Leah decided to up and go with Jeremy when she wasn't getting her way with Cory. If they were together now he would probably be doing the morning routine every day.

[TwirlyGirly]

Lm2162, on 13 Apr 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

He told them this long ago in a much earlier episode and Corey chose not to believe it. He informed them that she needed to be using a wheelchair to preserve her strength (they didn't learn it at the last appointment) and he purposely delayed it. He told them long ago not to let her walk so much. Yes, they were young and immature, but they were equipped with the info long ago. Leah is irresponsible in not getting the wheelchair fixed quickly, but Corey did (for a time) choose to deliberately ignore it and push her to walk/not get the wheelchair. Of course he didn't understand it, but he could have looked it up once he got a diagnosis. He can use Twitter but he can't Google or read? I understand the pain of looking that up and following doctor's orders, but at some point you do have to do it for your daughter.

 

And yes, if you are insisting not that your daughter will be alive but that it's 'just her little way' instead of muscular dystrophy, that 'nothing is wrong with her,' and that she WILL walk and be 'normal,' and purposely delaying the wheelchair, you are most certainly insinuating that with a wheelchair she will not be living a full life. He made countless comments like this over quite a long period of time. At some point it does become selfish instead of sympathetic. I have sympathy for that, but only so much when the doctor is telling you the opposite and LEAH has to be the voice of reason.

 

Like I've said, yes, he was ignorant and thus didn't understand/made ableist comments/was in denial. But ignorance doesn't 100% excuse you. It seems that now he's mostly moved beyond that. I assume Miranda has had a major hand in that, though I'd never personally stay with someone who cheated on me with Perpetually-Lateface.

 

Yes, I have a problem with neither Corey nor Leah (as far as we know) taking the time to do some independent research on their daughter's disorder to learn as much about it as they can. Actually, I have a problem with ANY parent that does this, regardless of their child's diagnosis. There's too much  "the doctor doesn't know what s/he's talking about - the kid will be fine" or "the doctor knows everything - we'll just do whatever s/he says" in terms of parents who have children with special needs.  I've seen it. I've experienced it firsthand. I've personally dealt with doctors who claim to know all about my disorder (Osteogenesis Imperfecta), but clearly know nothing at all about it - yet still believe they are qualified to treat me. No. They are not.

 

You really have to educate yourself these days to ensure you (or your child) are getting the best treatment available. The internet makes this far easier than when I was born. After my initial diagnosis, my parents took me to multiple doctors and they all had different ideas as how to best treat me. They had to sift through all of that information themselves, and decide (based on logic and a whole lot of "gut feeling," I'm sure) what was the best course of action to take. I think what I'm trying to say here is you can't ignore what you're being told by doctors, nor can you blindly accept everything they say. You have to take responsibility yourself and make decisions, AND be willing to accept the blame if the outcome of your decision wasn't the right one ("We just did what the doctors TOLD us to do!" doesn't fly). That's what being a good parent requires. You cannot just dump your kid (metaphorically speaking) in a doctor's lap and say "Here s/he is. Do what you've gotta do. You're the expert."

 

 

leighroda, on 14 Apr 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

<snip>

I'm not trying to start an argument or continue one, tbh I'm a little nervous to say this because I feel like people are being jumped on for expressing their opinion...but I am genuinely confused, while Corey has for sure been in denial about Ali's illness, I'm not sure I'm willing to say he has so much so to the neglectful end of things, and I really have never heard him imply Ali is damaged and better off dead... I am heavily medicated so I might have misunderstood that statement. <snip>

 

It is, unfortunately, a prevailing attitude amongst a lot of able-bodied people - even if not explicitly said. If I had a nickel for every time I've read a book or watched a movie in which the main character is either seriously injured or is diagnosed with a disease/disorder that affects their ability to walk and heard "Oh God - I'd rather be dead than be CONFINED TO A WHEELCHAIR for the rest of my life!" I'd be a wealthy woman. That's what the Academy Award winning film, "Million Dollar Baby" was all about (and it's also why a whole lot of people with disabilities picketed the film at both it's premiere and the Academy Awards that year). That film didn't get the award for Best Picture because it was a lie - it got the award for best picture because a whole lot of people related to the idea that it's better to be dead than be quadriplegic. I hated the film. Can you tell? ;)

 

Christopher Reeve didn't help much, either. He spent most of his years living as a quad insisting he would one day walk again, and working relentlessly towards that goal. His words and actions made clear he didn't believe it possible to live a full life (or be a "real" husband or father) as a quadriplegic. With his fame and notoriety, he could have done so much to change attitudes about people with disabilities, but he didn't. He confirmed them.

 

Look at the language we use - "wheelchair-bound," "confined to a wheelchair." No, Corey did not SAY he'd rather his daughter be dead than be "forced" to use a wheelchair, but as someone with a disability, I can tell you at that time he was influenced by the prevailing view of people who do use them. His actions, and other things he said, point to this.

 

Lm2162, on 14 Apr 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

No one said this. The other poster was referring to the fact that there is an idea that in the minds of many people in the U.S., disability is akin to or worse than death, though they would certainly not say this explicitly. Statements that imply that anything else they might do is not as important as if they, say, became able-bodied, or that risking their health (like they did in pushing Ali to keep walking) or wasting their life with endless appointments/therapy is OK as long as it MIGHT lead to some smaller tiny baby step towards able-bodiedness (for example, people throw away their entire life savings and quit their jobs to go to places like Project Walk and are lauded as heroes--just because they can now sort of walk--while people with disabilities who work and have extensive careers/lives are not as impressive because, after all, they still can't walk), also imply that a life with a disability is not worth living or is not a real life/is indeed 'worse than death' or is death itself. The idea that a wheelchair is akin to weakness, a downward spiral, or a 'sign' of some sort of imminent death, for example, is a sign of this exact damaging stereotype/concept. Not the same as saying someone 'would be better off dead,' that would be crazy reductive. <snip>

 

 

 

Yep. You nailed it.

Edited April 14, 2016 by TwirlyGirly

[shelley1234]

I'm just gonna jump off this wheel and agree to disagree about if Corey is being prejudiced against people with disabilities, especially since we're talking about things that happened seasons ago.

[Chicken Wing]

Kelly Clarkson named her baby boy Remington. Is that the new "in" name or something? :)

[teapot]

That'd be a long ass walk from Leah's on Monday morning. ;-)

don't worry, it's just a matter of time before Gracie gets fed up and teaches herself how to drive Ali, Addy & the kitty wherever they need to go!!

[GreatKazu]

I'm just gonna jump off this wheel and agree to disagree about if Corey is being prejudiced against people with disabilities, especially since we're talking about things that happened seasons ago.

Agree. Especially when the mods have made it clear more than once about people arguing their points over and over is not to be happening. It's beating a dead horse.

No one is trying to make Cory a saint.

How about Jenelle? What was that app she mentioned? It is how she met her dick of the season. I am so cluless about these dating apps. No one needs to leave the house anymore to find a new partner, it seems.

.

Edited April 14, 2016 by GreatKazu

[Miss Chevious]

I think the dating app Jenelle used is called Tinder. I'm an old lady that hasn't had a date for decades so I couldn't begin to tell you how it works but I think she may have used it to find Nips as well.

[ava111]

You can bet that if MTV were to cancel the show, Kaiser wold end up permanently living with his paternal grandmother.

I can't help but think that not only is Kail ecstatic that Javi has been deployed, but Jo and Vee as well. Javi is little shit-stirring pain in the ass and the fact that Jo,Vee and Kail all get along now proves that.

I think Javi's behavior is mostly product of Kail's attitude towards Jo when they started dating. She was always complaining about Jo, how horrible he is and Javi I guess trying to be supportive (he didn't want to get his head shaken) engaged in the bitching with her. I remember there was time when he was OK with Jo, especially if Kail wasn't around. I think he just got so used to the bitchfest that now that Kail decided to be civil with Jo his insecurities kicked in which is not surprising considering her cold behavior towards him as her husband. He also now knows she married him for benefits and not for love and is possibly jealous of Jo's and Kail's previous relationship.

[blubld43]

Considering that in a previous episode we saw Jenelle pull Kaiser out of his high chair and throw him in his crib after announcing she wasn't going to bother to wipe the hot dog grease off his hands or face because his crying was so annoying, I think it is safe to say that Jenelle is not practicing any kind of methodical, thought out sleep training program that would involve a caring bedtime routine.

 

Exactly.  She could care less if her baby feels safe, clean, whatever.  That just killed me to watch, and I'm pretty sure she didn't bother to check his diaper either.  And you know as soon as he tried to wipe his face, he ended up with all that shit in his eyes.  She just does not want to be bothered with him.

[ghoulina]

Again, we didn't see what she did with him before she put him in the crib.  Why is everyone just assuming she yanked him off the ping pong table where he was taking his turn at the formula/beer bong and threw him across the room into his crib yelling "rim shot!" laughing her way down the street to score a rock at the corner?

Right, because it's Jenelle.  On second thought, you guys might have a point.  :D

 

Assuming is kind of what we have to do on this show. They aren't filmed 24-7. But I don't think anyone is making baseless assumptions. Sure, she could be sleep training. But this is the woman who put partying before raising her first newborn. Who chose a life of drugs and squatting. Who always lets something else get in the way of "getting Jace back". Who has screamed and gotten into physical fights in front of her kids. Who locks dogs in garages all day and then tosses them out for destroying stuff of boredom. I could go on and on. But my point is, no we didn't see the before or after, but given what we have seen of her parenting "techniques", I don't think it's out of line to assume she's just dumping the kid in the crib and hoping he shuts the hell up. 

 

So yes, I am just as angry at Corey and his feeling that having a disability somehow makes his daughter "less than." He's one that has apparently bought into the "better dead than disabled" crap and I have no patience for that garbage.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I have never once seen Cory say, or act like, he thinks his daughter would be better off dead, instead of disabled. True, he seemed a bit slow to grasp her situation at first, but as of right now he seems like nothing but a loving, supportive father. And I really can't judge him for his initial reaction, because I've never been given the devastating news about my children that he was given about Ali. It's not just that she's disabled, but that she might have a shorter life span. He might NOT get the chance to walk her down the idea, not just literally, but figuratively. We all come to grips with tough situations in our own time and own way. But I've never seen him deny Ali anything or make her feel bad about her condition, so I'm willing to cut him some slack on being a bit "off" with his initial reaction. 

[Christina]

The problem Leah and Corey were having with researching Gracie's medical diagnoses, is that they kept changing them. It was shown on the show where Leah had looked up something the doctor said he thought it was at that time, was receiving a lot of conflicting information, only to say at the reunion show with Dr. Drew that it was causing a lot of stress and anxiety for both her and Corey. 

 

When the doctor finally said we are sure it is this form of muscular dystrophy, he gave them the information they had about it, which included that there were no other children with that version. They later learned that wasn't true, but it was a rare version of MD. At every step of the way they were met with misinformation. Then, at one of the talking heads with Dr. Drew, Leah said they decided to just listen to the doctor, because they like and trusted him, and the info on the internet was so contradictory. Dr. Drew went on and on about patients reading things on the internet and how incorrect some of it is. I also have a chronic illness and have found that to be true personally, but Dr. Drew was irritating about it.

[Cosmocrush]

Leah makes me livid with the way she is trying to make Corey the bad guy to the girls. Just like how she told the twins that Corey or Miranda should have called the girls immediately after their baby was born. Geez Leah, you selfish witch, the baby was 2 months premature, give them some time instead of insinuating to the girls that they had done something wrong.

I might be wrong, but didn't Leah find out about it on Twitter or FB via her phone or something?  If so, why are Corey and Miranda posting to social media before talking to their girls?   I'm not defending Leah for trash talking Corey but rather Corey for posting the news before his family knew about it.  

[ghoulina]

Well, and the thing is - doctors aren't always right either. You could go to two different doctors and get two different opinions. I can't fault parents for looking into things on their own, even if it can be confusing. It seems like they've grown to really like and trust Dr. Tsao, which is what's really important. Finding a doc who you feel you can really rely on. 

[blubld43]

I might be wrong, but didn't Leah find out about it on Twitter or FB via her phone or something?  If so, why are Corey and Miranda posting to social media before talking to their girls?   I'm not defending Leah for trash talking Corey but rather Corey for posting the news before his family knew about it. 

 

Cosmo, I think Corey's Dad actually posted the photo that Leah showed the girls.

[lovesnark]

I might be wrong, but didn't Leah find out about it on Twitter or FB via her phone or something?  If so, why are Corey and Miranda posting to social media before talking to their girls?   I'm not defending Leah for trash talking Corey but rather Corey for posting the news before his family knew about it.  

Corey's dad, Jeff, posted a pic on twitter or instagram. I doubt if Corey and Miranda even knew he'd done it. Leah must follow Jeff and his post showed up on her feed. Aside from her not giving Corey the opportunity to tell them, she had to get in the dig that Corey should have called them first. Bitch will use anything to try to make Corey a bad guy to the girlses.

[shelley1234]

I think Javi's behavior is mostly product of Kail's attitude towards Jo when they started dating. She was always complaining about Jo, how horrible he is and Javi I guess trying to be supportive (he didn't want to get his head shaken) engaged in the bitching with her. I remember there was time when he was OK with Jo, especially if Kail wasn't around. I think he just got so used to the bitchfest that now that Kail decided to be civil with Jo his insecurities kicked in which is not surprising considering her cold behavior towards him as her husband. He also now knows she married him for benefits and not for love and is possibly jealous of Jo's and Kail's previous relationship.

 

Full disclosure:  Can't stand Javi.

 

So Javi is not responsible for his own behavior, but it is Kail's fault he is being so difficult when everyone is attempting to co-parent?  

 

For me Javi is being consistent with who he always has been.  He's been emotionally manipulative and possessive and this was no different.  If I was Kail, I would have been hanging up on him and ignoring his calls/texts a long time ago.  But then again people like Javi don't tend to get in relationships with people like me...or at least not this version of who I am.  

 

P.S.  I also don't think Kail is sunshine and roses...and she picked him.  Still.  I am actually hopeful it is true and the rumors of their divorce are true.  I think they are both toxic for one another and hope they have moved on.  Poor Lincoln and Isaac though.  

[ChristmasJones]

I think Karl liked Javi's possessiveness and willingness to get on her side when bashing Jo at the beginning. I don't think they would have moved on to marriage if he hadn't been like that.  But as is common in relationships, the traits that first attract you to someone can become the traits you grow to dislike.

 

As I see it, Javi hasn't really changed, while it appears in some ways, Karl has - at least in terms of how she wants to relate to Jo. But now that I think about it a bit more, I realize Karl gives Javi a very mixed message. She wants him to be on good terms with Jo, but then she does stuff like go off on Jo when she showed up early to get Isaac. Maybe Javi is just confused and doesn't know what to do- and is worried he will get a beat down again if he does the wrong thing.

 

If Karl has been cheating (and I consider texting/emailing people of the opposite sex (or same sex) if your spouse doesn't know about it to be cheating - emotional affairs are a big thing now that we have the internet and smart phones), then I would not fault Javi for any apparently "controlling" behavior in response to that. Cheating is wrong. If Karl wasn't happy with her marriage, she should work in counseling with Javi to fix it, or get out.

Edited April 14, 2016 by ChristmasJones

[shelley1234]

Texting someone is cheating if your spouse/partner doesn't know about it?  No matter what the texting is about.  Yeah, I'm gonna say NOPE on that one in my world.  

[Scarlett45]

I know I'm late to the party but I have to comment that Cole is CUTE........C. U. T. E. Ha!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I loved Gracie sneaking the cat along in the car. Hahahaha!

Can Gracie & Jenelle's lawyer please co-host the after shows and reunions?

[Maharincess]

Texting someone is cheating if your spouse/partner doesn't know about it? No matter what the texting is about. Yeah, I'm gonna say NOPE on that one in my world.

My world too. That sounds like a whole lot of insecurity in the relationship to me.

And that's something I've never understood, if a person isn't secure in their relationship, if they always have to check the other person's phone and think they're always cheating, leave the relationship!

I hate insecure jealousy in a person more than I hate anything else.

I see this with almost every relationship on these Teen Mom shows.

[TaxNerd]

I loved Gracie sneaking the cat along in the car. Hahahaha!

Can Gracie & Jenelle's lawyer please co-host the after shows and reunions?

Gracie would be a fantastic host! Jenelle's lawyer make take a little too long to get to the point...

[CofCinci]

I know I'm late to the party but I have to comment that Cole is CUTE........C. U. T. E. Ha!

He is a cutie patootie. He's so nice that I can see her doing something to hurt him.

[ReadMeLattice]

Agree. Especially when the mods have made it clear more than once about people arguing their points over and over is not to be happening. It's beating a dead horse.

No one is trying to make Cory a saint.

How about Jenelle? What was that app she mentioned? It is how she met her dick of the season. I am so cluless about these dating apps. No one needs to leave the house anymore to find a new partner, it seems.

.

Agree to drop it, though this was happening equally on both sides of the issue (and people are continuing to push). I will simply repeat that no one said he *literally* said Ali would be better off dead. That is a misreading and misunderstanding.

It's especially because ableism is so embedded in our language and culture and so typical and pervasive that it's difficult to discuss without seeming radical (though that's not an awful thing to be). However, I will just say to @TwirlyGirly, thank you so much for that last post. I agreed with everything you said and it fits mine and my husband's experiences to a T. It's rare to find people who understand and don't minimize/dismiss how deeply harmful those kinds of comments are (I could never live my life in a wheelchair! I have faith that someday you will walk!!!1!--on our wedding photos!) and it honestly got me emotional. And yes, FUCK Million Dollar Baby and the Christopher Reeve philosophy. Thanks so much for your insights. I appreciate you & hope you have lots of like-minded progressive folks supporting you.

Now on to other topics, like the fact that Jenelle's penchant for using needles rather unconventionally totally didn't keep her out of yet another 2 year program, you guys, it's Nathannnnn and his 40 year old swolemate. Leeeaaveee meee aloooooneee!

Edited April 15, 2016 by Lm2162

[Cosmocrush]

Cosmo, I think Corey's Dad actually posted the photo that Leah showed the girls.

Thanks blubld,  That makes sense because I'd like to think that Corey/Miranda had other things to attend to than their social media updates.   Faux pas on papa Jeff for jumping the gun then.   

 

Leah insinuating to the girls that their Dad should have called them was out of line but I think all these "teen moms" are rather immature about most things so it's not surprising to me.  I think when someone starts having kids in high school the odds of having great parenting skills are relatively low especially for Leah.  Twins at 16, one with special needs would overwhelm anyone but toss in depression, anxiety, a couple of divorces and a problem with pills and not much about Leah surprises me.  Well, except realizing she left baby Addy in the car; I was surprised she remembered at all.     My laughter at that caught me by surprise too. 

 

I was thinking about Chelsea teasing Cole that "it [their engagement] wasn't  real" until they posted it, but then she told everyone important to her first. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Cosmocrush

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I love Chelsea and Cole. They seem very well suited for each other. I'm happy for her and think she's come a long way. I heart Chelsea and Cole (Colesea? Haha.)

I'm not even going to apologize for it.

[NikSac]

I love Chelsea and Cole. They seem very well suited for each other. I'm happy for her and think she's come a long way. I heart Chelsea and Cole (Colesea? Haha.)

I'm not even going to apologize for it.

 

I do too. They are so cutesy together they are pretty much gag-worthy, but I think they are a good fit. I guess you could say they're equally cheesy, but hey, if they're both happy with it that's great.

 

I understand why that one friend had this "OMG get me out of here" look on her face after too much of the cheesiness though.

[NikSac]

Thanks blubld,  That makes sense because I'd like to think that Corey/Miranda had other things to attend to than their social media updates.   Faux pas on papa Jeff for jumping the gun then.  

 

Exactly. I'm sure he was just excited - and probably felt bad about it later.

 

I found out my niece was born via a FB post from an ex-sister-in-law.  It's not ideal, but I figured my brother was rather busy at the time. He'd already 'warned' everyone that his priority was spending time with his new daughter and we probably wouldn't hear from him for a few hours after she was born. We were all fine with that. Somebody got antsy and posted a pic right after she was born, though. I thought it was fine, kinda how things seem to go nowadays.  The difference is Leah used that overly early post/pic to bash Corey and make her daughters feel bad. THAT to me is the part that was totally unacceptable.

[GreatKazu]

I thought Cory got rid of his social media pages.

[DangerousMinds]

Texting someone is cheating if your spouse/partner doesn't know about it?  No matter what the texting is about.  Yeah, I'm gonna say NOPE on that one in my world.

Me too. I have always had many male friends and that is not going to change. If my boyfriend doesn't like that we aren't right for one another.

[DangerousMinds]

These girls (and also their parents, apparently. SMHD) need to learn to spend less time on social media. Put down the phones, FFS.

[NikSac]

I thought Cory got rid of his social media pages.

 

I dunno. He still has at least one on Facebook, although I don't know if it's actually 'his' or run by fans, MTV, or someone else.  Corey Simms & Family is where I went to look for pics hoping to see Ali using her wheelchair.

[ilovetrashtv]

I do not hold out much hope for it to be used as Leah can't even summon the energy to feed the girls or brush their hair, so if it comes back it will probably remain in her car as it would be too much effort for Leah to load and unload it.

 

This is exactly what I think too. Allowing Ali to use the wheelchair would mean Leah would need a wheelchair-accessible van, because I doubt she can lift the thing herself into any SUV (looks heavy to me). Seeing as she can't even get the kids out of the house on time, I doubt she could also handle a wheelchair being thrown into the mix & having to load/unload it everywhere they go.

[shelley1234]

I dunno. He still has at least one on Facebook, although I don't know if it's actually 'his' or run by fans, MTV, or someone else.  Corey Simms & Family is where I went to look for pics hoping to see Ali using her wheelchair.

 

That page says it is run by a fan and that they don't know Corey.

 

He does seem to be back on twitter though:  https://twitter.com/coreysimmsMTV  (He doesn't post much though)

Edited April 15, 2016 by shelley1005

[ghoulina]

My world too. That sounds like a whole lot of insecurity in the relationship to me.

And that's something I've never understood, if a person isn't secure in their relationship, if they always have to check the other person's phone and think they're always cheating, leave the relationship!

I hate insecure jealousy in a person more than I hate anything else.

I see this with almost every relationship on these Teen Mom shows.

 

I'm a very insecure person. Not to sound too terribly cliche, but I was cheated on twice. And my own father disowned me and refuses to speak to me, or get to know his grandkids. I've been with my husband for 10 years, but I'm still always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I have always felt I wasn't good enough for him and I have all kinds of crazy thoughts - such as, when he says he has a meeting with a contractor and will be running late, I assume this means hotel sex with some random broad. 

 

That being said, I hate all of this about myself. At 36-years-of age, I'm not sure how to change it. If I could snap my fingers and make myself a more confident, secure woman, I would. But what I won't do is let MY issues become someone else's. So all those crazy thoughts? Stay inside my head. I am often tempted to check my husband's phone and/or email, but I resist. It's not his fault I'm like this and I'm not going to make his life hell. THAT'S what I can't stand in people. You can't always help the issues that you have, but you can help how you treat others. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by ghoulina

[AdorkableWitch]

Not to try to defend Leah, but I wonder if they are leaving the wheelchair at school. It would mean that there is no worry about Leah forgetting to bring it. I have a friend who has a daughter with CP and that is what they do during the school year.

[ReadMeLattice]

This is exactly what I think too. Allowing Ali to use the wheelchair would mean Leah would need a wheelchair-accessible van, because I doubt she can lift the thing herself into any SUV (looks heavy to me). Seeing as she can't even get the kids out of the house on time, I doubt she could also handle a wheelchair being thrown into the mix & having to load/unload it everywhere they go.

Yes, she and/or Corey should really invest in a wheelchair accessible van, I don't know why at least one of them doesn't have one when they can certainly afford it. They should be grateful for the MTV money in that respect; those things are expensive. I doubt they'll get one.

I felt for Ali so much when Leah yelled at her about the tie. She looked so despairing when Leah didn't listen or believe her. She's probably used to not being heard or understood by her mother.

Both Leah and Corey are uneducated and ignorant about a lot. Miranda seems to have a positive influence on Corey because he was far more selfish and immature in the past (I can't imagine her tolerating the "I'm getting a new truck" thing). Leah doesn't make an effort to actually get to know her children or think critically about her parenting choices and communication, but as the product of likely generations of teen pregnancy and absentee fathers herself, it's probably good enough in her mind just to feed them, spank them, and send them to school.

I remember in one reunion show, Leah said she felt it was the woman's primary job to take care of the house and children and the guy might help but the responsibility wasn't equal. Jenelle agreed; I think Chelsea and to a greater extent Kailyn were like, um, no. But I just found it fascinating that Jenelle and Leah seemed to have these traditionalist values while the other two, who have been more traditional in many ways in their choices, didn't share them. I wonder if that's part of the issue...they have Daddy issues and keep trying to force whatever loser dude will date them into the patriarch, head of the household role. But they choose people who aren't worthy of that title, don't actually take care of their kids and home, and wouldn't be able to be the submissive, cherished little woman they seem to have in their fantasies if their lives depended on it. So instead they just keep having kids and letting guys move in and saying things like "be a man, man up!!!" and "I feel like I'm finally dating a real man!" and hoping that one day it'll become Leave it to Beaver.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Lm2162