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S07.E05: No Access


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Taylor responds to Adam's 50/50 claim.  Thanks to "Babs" for sharing it with us:  https://www.instagram.com/p/BEJW_wFwbD8/?taken-by=babsevanstagram

 

Taylor's twitter account

Taylor Halbur

‏@thalbur89

50/50 custody? Yeah, if by 50/50 you mean 4 over nights a month. Is 'custody' a slang word for visitation? Might have the 2 terms confused.

 

 

And Chelsea liked it. hahaha https://twitter.com/thalbur89/status/719717493598650368

Bahahahaha.

 

I didn't realize Taylor was so snarky! Thanks for the laugh, Taylor!

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Did Chelsea's friend seem annoyed with her to anyone else? When they were talking about buying a house together she really seemed to think it wasn't a good idea. She just seemed kind of over it. She's engaged so she can't think Chelsea is too young and I think a year of dating is fair before an engagement. Just seemed odd.

LOL, she was probably on the fifth take. These producer driven conversations for exposition are so dull to watch, imagine having to have them, over and over again!

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As far as the bus thing with Ali & Gracie....

 

Some of my friends with school-aged kids have told me that the bus is where stuff really goes down as far as bullying, misbehavior, & being picked on. The buses here don't have bus monitors, so it's just the driver and he/she can't really supervise the kids all that well while driving. Many of my friends with school-aged children either take them to school themselves because they've been picked on/hurt/bullied/etc on the bus or they've heard horror stories about this happening to other kids on the bus (particularly the younger kids).  People - and kids - suck and might see the bus ride as an opportunity to pick on Ali because she has a disability or pick on both of the girlses because they're on TM/little celebrities/kids whose mama has a well-known addiction to men & pillses. Corey may not want to subject them to the possibility of being bullied or harassed on the bus, which is probably a good idea given that I bet if someone really pushed her buttons, Gracie would a shank a fifth grader on the back of the bus. That girl takes care of things.

 

Also, I'm not sure that the bus necessarily gets kids to school in time for breakfast. It may in some places, but not all.

Edited by MyPeopleAreNordic
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In regards to the comments that Corey looked upset about not being the one to tell the girls about the baby....how about calling them before posting a picture on social media? I can't imagine posting a picture for all the world to see without informing my other kids first.

I know I will get hate for this but I give Corey and Miranda a pass on this. When we had our son my first thought was not to call my husbands child from a previous relationship to tell him first. Maybe Miranda wanted the focus to be on just their child for a little while. Sometimes it's hard to be the second person, and you only know those feelings if you are living it.

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Yeah. They've been through a lot. Miranda is a beautiful, mature girl and she chose to be with a guy from TM who has two children, one of whom has muscular dystrophy, with a total bitch. Let her have a moment in the hospital with her husband or be the princess who just gave birth for a minute.

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When Jenelle dumped Kaiser in his crib, announced "time for sleep!" turned off the light, and clicked the door shut -- all accompanied by that baby's screams and cries of terror. -- oh how I wanted a futuristic, interactive screen, so I could reach in and throttle Jenelle, aka Mother of the Millennium.

 

 

Okay not that I would ever ever EVER want to defend Jenelle, because she's a terrible person and horrible mother but that scene really didn't bother me that much because sleep training?  It's a thing.  Did it with both my kids and I assure you, they are both loved and very well cared for.   First night with my daughter she screamed for 37 minutes.  37 minutes of ear piercing shrieks.  I was in the garage crying, listening to her.  The next night?  7 minutes.  The third?  Went right to sleep and slept through the night.  Not every parent believes in sleep training, but it's an accepted, validated, very common method of child rearing.

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I know I will get hate for this but I give Corey and Miranda a pass on this. When we had our son my first thought was not to call my husbands child from a previous relationship to tell him first. Maybe Miranda wanted the focus to be on just their child for a little while. Sometimes it's hard to be the second person, and you only know those feelings if you are living it.

 

Absolutely. That baby came two months early, rushed off to the NICU ... Corey and Miranda's priorities right then were not calling Leah to let her know the news. Piss off, Leah, for griping about the fact that Corey didn't tell you personally just yet. He's busy.

 

That said, again, if Corey hoped to be the one to tell the girlses, then he actually would have had to call right away, because internet.

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Absolutely. That baby came two months early, rushed off to the NICU ... Corey and Miranda's priorities right then were not calling Leah to let her know the news. Piss off, Leah, for griping about the fact that Corey didn't tell you personally just yet. He's busy.

 

That said, again, if Corey hoped to be the one to tell the girlses, then he actually would have had to call right away, because internet.I 

I totally agree about the internet. But I certainly hope she doesn't let the girls o on the internet or facebook without supervision. Leah did not have to open her big mouth and tell them. Even if it was on the internet the girls didn't have to find out.

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I don't think it was that big a deal for Leah to tell them, because it's not like she was supposed to know that she wasn't supposed to tell them -- but I'm sure a large part of why she did tell them was so she could point out that daddy didn't bother to call and tell her/them himself. Just like she then informed them that she was going to call daddy to ask if they could stay over and made sure they understood that if they couldn't stay it was because daddy said no.

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Re Kail and the miscarriage. I remember commenting about her "worst day" tweet. One cannot write something like that without having people speculate what event transpired to make it the "worst day." The most devasting events in my life have not been shared cryptically with the world. There is something off with this story and Javi's reaction to it.

Ever heard of "vaguebooking?"  It's irritating as hell and SUPER narcissistic but totally a thing.  Looks like she was "vaguetweeting".  And Javi explained his reaction on the ep.  God, he's a jerk.

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Okay not that I would ever ever EVER want to defend Jenelle, because she's a terrible person and horrible mother but that scene really didn't bother me that much because sleep training?  It's a thing.  Did it with both my kids and I assure you, they are both loved and very well cared for.   First night with my daughter she screamed for 37 minutes.  37 minutes of ear piercing shrieks.  I was in the garage crying, listening to her.  The next night?  7 minutes.  The third?  Went right to sleep and slept through the night.  Not every parent believes in sleep training, but it's an accepted, validated, very common method of child rearing.

Sleep training is definitely a thing, yes. Do I think that Jenelle is doing sleep training? No fucking way. I thought sleep training was establishing a restful, soothing bedtime routine, (bath, story, song....), then placing your child in his or her crib with hugs and kisses and a cheerful "good night, sweet dreams!". Not summarily dumping your crying baby in his crib and hightailing it out of the room as if pursued by hounds.

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Yeah, I don't get the sense that Jenelle's leaving Kaiser alone in the hopes that he'll eventually give up and go to sleep is in the name of deliberate sleep training so much as she just doesn't feel like dealing with his crying.

Edited by Chicken Wing
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Unfortunately even if there are buses, they are not always accessible. My husband is a quadriplegic and as soon as you deal with the reality of accessibility in this country you realize what a daily struggle it is and how many people are deeply ignorant about it. That's one reason I can't get fully on the Corey praise train. He has been so in denial of her disability to the point of insisting that she will walk down the aisle on her wedding day, people are making a big deal out of nothing, he "knows" she will walk, and that she isn't really disabled. Not only is that dangerous for her medical care, but it's offensive. You don't have to walk to live a worthwhile life. Plenty of people work full time, buy homes, fall in love, marry, have children, make art, and get graduate degrees with disabilities and he acts like that's not possible. Walking is really not the be-all end-all of life. If accessibility was improved, if would help things a lot more than just pushing people with muscular dystrophy to walk (I remember the episode where he said Leah let Ali be "lazy" by not walking all the time and using the wheelchair while he made her walk...eyeroll).

Luckily at the last doctor's appointment he seemed to have evolved. Hopefully he will continue to do so. Maybe he has educated himself more.

 

I can't get after Corey for this.  Corey was a teenage dad who didn't know anything about this.  Heck, it took him a couple seasons to be able to say MD correctly.  For sure he was in denial about Ali and her diagnosis in the beginning, but that was a long ass time ago.  I also don't think it's a negative thing to not want your child to have a debilitating physical disability and to dream of her being able to walk down the aisle.  I don't think that is offensive at all.  

 

I didn't see any of that attitude from Corey when they met with the doctor last time.  And I see him as a dad who wants to give her everything he can...  If he doesn't get credit for growing and changing and will always be judged for his initial response then that is a shame IMO.

 

P.S.  In terms of accessibility....I can't imagine a bus would be any less accessible than Leah's car so full or crap and garbage.  

Edited by shelley1005
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It's not "sleep training" - it's neglect. Sleep training requires some thoughtfulness and preparation. This kid is just being thrown into a dark room so she can go drink or get high with her boyfriend of the season or with whatever random mooch girlfriend is living there. The poor child doesn't have a single need met. At least Jace has his grandmother....

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Sleep training is definitely a thing, yes. Do I think that Jenelle is doing sleep training? No fucking way. I thought sleep training was establishing a restful, soothing bedtime routine, (bath, story, song....), then placing your child in his or her crib with hugs and kisses and a cheerful "good night, sweet dreams!". Not summarily dumping your crying baby in his crib and hightailing it out of the room as if pursued by hounds.

 

Exactly. I did a variation of sleep training with all three of my kids, but they still had a nice bedtime routine PRIOR to the part where they cried and I would soothe them every few minutes, but not get them out. We still had baths, stories, some hugs. Jenelle is NEVER seen cuddling or playing with her son. I don't think she's sleep training. I think she just dumps him in there and runs away, so she doesn't have to hear him cry. She never seems to want him mobile either. He's always in his crib, a high chair, or the playpen. 

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As far as the bus situation goes I'm not in West Virginia so I'm sure it's different everywhere but they barely have school bus service where I live anymore. It blows my mind the kids they expect to walk to school on busy streets. By high school age they are expected to walk or take public transit. And I'm sure they wouldn't send a bus 45 minutes away to Leah's. Ali is in a weird situation because she probably can technically use the regular bus if they have one but she'd probably be better off and safer on a bus for kids with disabilities (though again I doubt they'd send one all the way to Leah's).

As far as disabled access it is so true people just don't realize how difficult it can be unless they've lived it. I spent 6 years full time in a wheelchair and still have limited mobility. The US is better than other places I've been for having accessible entrances etc. but you're always having to plan ahead and think about how you're going to get somewhere, then how you're going to get inside, get around once you're inside, etc. It sucks that this is reality for Ali but her parents can help her a lot with it. And yes she can still live a very full life, walking or not, though it still makes me sad knowing it'll most likely be cut way too short.

About that wheelchair... in the 6 years I used a motorized one it got used daily and my friends and I abused it (I gave them rides on the back etc) but it was never out of commission for as long as Ali's seems to have been. Any maintenance was quick and it never needed major repairs. So I don't know what's up with them not having and using it but something isn't right there. And as I've said before she should have a manual one anyway as a backup in case of it being broken, dead battery, or whatever. I always used the motorized one at school and manual one everywhere else. If Ali can push a manual chair with her arms it'd help keep her arm strength up without all those falls.

Re Taylor's tweet haha thank you for pointing out that Adam is not exactly a math whiz! And also that he made up that one overnight during the week which is what I suspected. He probably sees her for dinner or something one week night, if he bothers to glance up from his phone, but not overnight.

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Okay not that I would ever ever EVER want to defend Jenelle, because she's a terrible person and horrible mother but that scene really didn't bother me that much because sleep training?  It's a thing.  Did it with both my kids and I assure you, they are both loved and very well cared for.   First night with my daughter she screamed for 37 minutes.  37 minutes of ear piercing shrieks.  I was in the garage crying, listening to her.  The next night?  7 minutes.  The third?  Went right to sleep and slept through the night.  Not every parent believes in sleep training, but it's an accepted, validated, very common method of child rearing.

But Jenelle was not sleep training. I doubt she even knows it's a legit thing.

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I couldn't help but notice the nut snuggly mom jeans Adam was sporting while the younglings were bouncing about. I guess now that he's got his license back, he doesn't need Lurch of the Zombie Apocalypse to read his repetitive "How do you feel?" line anymore. He's got two other sycophants to do the job.

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I don't think the girls should have been notified first. They aren't on social media. Leah should have allowed Cory to tell them the baby was born whether someone posted a picture or not.

Leah needs to shut up in general. She told the one kid that it was corys fault they weren't with her. The kid is going to connect the dots that it's an issue of how they are late all the time among other things and blame herself for Leah's misery. Now that Jeremy is out of the picture she all of a sudden has an issue with Miranda taking her kids home to Cory. Remember when Leah and Jeremy first moved in together and she threatened that Jeremy was going to be the daddy if Cory didn't cough up that extra support money? She's eating crow now and doesn't like it.

Edited by Lexie
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I can't get after Corey for this. Corey was a teenage dad who didn't know anything about this. Heck, it took him a couple seasons to be able to say MD correctly. For sure he was in denial about Ali and her diagnosis in the beginning, but that was a long ass time ago. I also don't think it's a negative thing to not want your child to have a debilitating physical disability and to dream of her being able to walk down the aisle. I don't think that is offensive at all.

I didn't see any of that attitude from Corey when they met with the doctor last time. And I see him as a dad who wants to give her everything he can... If he doesn't get credit for growing and changing and will always be judged for his initial response then that is a shame IMO.

P.S. In terms of accessibility....I can't imagine a bus would be any less accessible than Leah's car so full or crap and garbage.

I have heard stories about people who waited for one of the bridesmaids to be able to walk down the aisle before they would get married. I have to wonder what the huge deal is about walking except that wheelchairs make OTHER, able bodied, people uncomfortable. If your daughter was getting married the big deal would be getting married, not walking. Moreover, you have to understand that people get nuts about it--my husband has a PhD, is a professor, is married and has a child, and what people are really concerned with/excited about, much more, is that "maybe he will walk again one day!!!!!1!" As if that's way more important or even close to as important as those other accomplishments. It might seem normal, but for disabled people and their spouses and children, that gets extremely tiresome and offensive. So my response to that period of extreme denial was mostly hope that he wouldn't turn out to be one of "those" people and thus denigrate his daughter's actual life that she is living in a disabled body.

I would hope that in general, people have much bigger dreams for their daughters than "walking down the aisle," but the point was that he seemed insistent on saying he "knew" she would, in denial. Not just "not wanting it," I never said anything about wanting it, but actively refusing her treatment, making her walk when the doctor advised against it, and acting as if if she had it her life would be worthless, and overall totally ignoring the very real disability right in front of him. I do wish that there was more widespread education about disabilities in general, and I don't think he's "bad" or anything, but he did display a lot of ignorance, some willful.

I did also explicitly say that perhaps he's changed. I hope he has and think he shows signs of it. I don't agree on not bringing up stuff from the past because we all still snark on things these people did when they were 16. It's weird, but it's reality TV, I guess.

Yes, Leah should really purchase a wheelchair accessible van with all that money she loves to spend. The doctor told them the wheelchair was necessary.

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I don't think the girls should have been notified first. They aren't on social media. Leah should have allowed Cory to tell them the baby was born whether someone posted a picture or not.

Totally agreed. My biggest issue with it was that her motivation seemed to be to make him look bad to the girls. She looked practically gleeful to be the one to tell them and get to follow it up with 'oh your daddy should have told you first.'

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Okay not that I would ever ever EVER want to defend Jenelle, because she's a terrible person and horrible mother but that scene really didn't bother me that much because sleep training? It's a thing. Did it with both my kids and I assure you, they are both loved and very well cared for. First night with my daughter she screamed for 37 minutes. 37 minutes of ear piercing shrieks. I was in the garage crying, listening to her. The next night? 7 minutes. The third? Went right to sleep and slept through the night. Not every parent believes in sleep training, but it's an accepted, validated, very common method of child rearing.

We sleep trained our daughter too (and continue to give her a refresher when she needs it) but I don't believe this is what Janelle was doing when she dumped Kaiser. A good parent doesn't choose to sleep train when there are reality show cameras in the house. A good parent has a nighttime routine and some winding down time with the baby before leaving them to fall asleep on their own. Janelle, on the other hand, pretty much throws Kaiser in his crib with a bottle when she can't deal.

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Okay not that I would ever ever EVER want to defend Jenelle, because she's a terrible person and horrible mother but that scene really didn't bother me that much because sleep training?  It's a thing.  Did it with both my kids and I assure you, they are both loved and very well cared for.   First night with my daughter she screamed for 37 minutes.  37 minutes of ear piercing shrieks.  I was in the garage crying, listening to her.  The next night?  7 minutes.  The third?  Went right to sleep and slept through the night.  Not every parent believes in sleep training, but it's an accepted, validated, very common method of child rearing.

 

She is definitely not sleep training. That is where you go in after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15, etc. And you also don't do it when the kid is well past 1. She just throws him in the crib when he is pissy. You also go through a routine prior to putting them in a crib. Take a bath, read a story, etc. Not just toss them in a crib crying. 

Edited by ClassyCourtHeels
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I think if Jenelle was doing anything even remotely deliberately parent like, such as thought out sleep training, we'd be hearing all about it. About how it makes her a better parent than Nathan, proves she could have done a better job with Jace than Barb does, etc. I think she just can't handle him at all so she flings him in the crib and shuts the door.

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I'm tardy to the party, but I'm having a hard time putting my feelings about Leah into words.  It just sickens me that she ruins things that should be fun and special for the girlses with her lack of organization and constant lateness.  She did it to Gracie last season when they were heading to the cheerleading competition and she was running behind, didn't have everything ready, and had a fight with Jeremey over her jam packed vehicle.  Then we see her do  it again with taking Ali to the choir concert. She hasn't grown or improved at all. She's right about one thing, the truth has come out, and the truth is that she's an even worse mother than I already thought she was.

 

Thank goodness for Cole and Chelsea keeping my blood pressure down.  I'm happy for them and pleased their engagement took place off camera.  Too bad Nathan and Jenelle weren't that smart.  All that hoopla and look how that turned out.

 

I really wanted a piece of Isaac's birthday cake.  

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Sleep training is definitely a thing, yes. Do I think that Jenelle is doing sleep training? No fucking way. I thought sleep training was establishing a restful, soothing bedtime routine, (bath, story, song....), then placing your child in his or her crib with hugs and kisses and a cheerful "good night, sweet dreams!". Not summarily dumping your crying baby in his crib and hightailing it out of the room as if pursued by hounds.

 

To be fair, we don't know what she was doing with Kaiser before plopping him in the crib.  We're assuming she just snatched him up and threw him in there.   Which, given the fact that Jenelle is a waste of skin, could have very well been true.  I'm just saying based solely on the scene we saw, I'm not going to start going on and on about how someone needs to call CPS, ect ect.  Babies cry.  Sometimes there's nothing you can do about it except let them cry.  The tone she used when she was saying "night night" to me indicated they've been through this many times already (in fact, I've gotten that tone myself in the midst of sleep training.  It can be brutal.)  I know if I hadn't let my daughter scream it out for a few nights, I'd still be going in there 4 or 5 times at night because she had no idea how to self soothe.  Sucks.  

 

Disclaimer:  Hate Jenelle with a passion.   Shitty mom, shitty person.  But not because she sleep trains.  :D

She is definitely not sleep training. That is where you go in after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15, etc. And you also don't do it when the kid is well past 1. She just throws him in the crib when he is pissy. You also go through a routine prior to putting them in a crib. Take a bath, read a story, etc. Not just toss them in a crib crying. 

 

There's different methods of sleep training.  You described one.  Many people just let them cry it out, like I described in my earlier post.  With us, every time we went in our daughters room, it made things worse.  We had no choice but to just go cold turkey.  There's also no rule about when you can do sleep training (except how early you could start) so I'm not sure where you're getting the whole "you can't do it after 1" thing.  Finally, you can't determine from that scene what she did before she put him in the crib or that she DIDN'T go back in there in 5 or 10 minutes, can you?  My daughter knew when it was time to be put in her crib and immediately started screaming.  So yeah, she was plopped in a crib screaming.  Not all babies are the same.  Putting a screaming baby down in a crib at bedtime is not a sign of neglect.

 

Disclaimer:  Hate Jenelle with a passion.   Shitty mom, shitty person.  But not because she sleep trains.  :D

Edited by lezlers
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Exactly. I did a variation of sleep training with all three of my kids, but they still had a nice bedtime routine PRIOR to the part where they cried and I would soothe them every few minutes, but not get them out. We still had baths, stories, some hugs. Jenelle is NEVER seen cuddling or playing with her son. I don't think she's sleep training. I think she just dumps him in there and runs away, so she doesn't have to hear him cry. She never seems to want him mobile either. He's always in his crib, a high chair, or the playpen. 

Again, we didn't see what she did with him before she put him in the crib.  Why is everyone just assuming she yanked him off the ping pong table where he was taking his turn at the formula/beer bong and threw him across the room into his crib yelling "rim shot!" laughing her way down the street to score a rock at the corner?

 

Right, because it's Jenelle.  On second thought, you guys might have a point.  :D

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I'm just saying based solely on the scene we saw, I'm not going to start going on and on about how someone needs to call CPS, ect ect.

But who suggested that? I know I didn't, and I don't recall any other posters referring to Jenelle's dump and jump as cause for calling cps. I am a mandated reporter. I am scrupulous and fair.

lezlers, your posts here sound like you are an attentive, purposeful mother. My observations on TM2 have nothing to do with your choices or with anyone else's opinions here. I am not a ridiculous person. I don't personally know you or anyone else who posts in here.

I watch this show, and I observe and critique the principals based on what I see. It's a reality show, edited, massaged and sculpted in the producers' and network's image. I get it. But, when I see what I see, I feel fine in reaching conclusions, then commenting on them.

But, make no mistake. My comments are aimed at the show and the people who AGREE to put their lives on public display. Even if a sister or brother poster takes umbrage -- because of their own choices and experiences -- they shouldn't take my opinions personally. Until you pop up on my tv or in my workplace as a client, I would never judge another person's parenting techniques in an ignorant vacuum.

What I saw in Jenelle's scene -- in and of itself -- was an annoyed and devoid-of-patience mother, dumping her child out of her end-of-rope selfishness-- and totally careless and cold in appreciating her child's distress and immediate needs.

Edited by sleekandchic
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Damn Adam, we knew your friends were shady as fuck, but that's some shit right there. His friend should have never been to a place where there were children. Can this guy get in trouble for that?

That's what I thought, too.

As far as the school bus, it could be a situation where the bus doesn't come by Coreys house. When I was in school our bus didn't come all the way down the dirt road we lived on because it became "out of district" halfway down. However our town is so small that school was our only choice. The school my daughter is in now, the bus doesn't come by our house for her school because our home is in one city while our mailbox is in another. (We live on a dirt road and our mailbox sits at the beginning of the dirt road with other people who live near us) our mailbox is in her school district she actually goes to, our house is in the nearby town school district. There are many different reasons someone may not ride the bus.

Leah lives in Charleston and Corey lives outside of Elkview so the bus sure isn't going to Leah's house.

Edited by Mkay
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What I saw in Jenelle's scene -- in and of itself -- was an annoyed and devoid-of-patience mother, dumping her child out of her end-of-rope selfishness-- and totally careless and cold in appreciating her child's distress and immediate needs.

 

That's what I see as well.  I'm sure there are many wonderful parents who do this sleep training.  Do I believe Jenelle is one of them?  Hell to the N-O.  As someone already said, if she were doing anything remotely parent-like, she'd be blasting it all over social media, using it against Nathan, etc.

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Damn Adam, we knew your friends were shady as fuck, but that's some shit right there. His friend should have never been to a place where there were children. Can this guy get in trouble for that?

I thought sex offenders were not supposed to be anywhere around minors. Schools, parks, etc. The place Adam took Aubree would be one of them. I thought Adams parents were supposed to

Supervise anyway!

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I thought sex offenders were not supposed to be anywhere around minors. Schools, parks, etc. The place Adam took Aubree would be one of them. I thought Adams parents were supposed to

Supervise anyway!

My understanding is that it's different state by state and depending on the crime. This guy hasn't shown any predilection for desiring kids, so idk if it would apply to him.

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Lm2162, on 13 Apr 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

Unfortunately even if there are buses, they are not always accessible. My husband is a quadriplegic and as soon as you deal with the reality of accessibility in this country you realize what a daily struggle it is and how many people are deeply ignorant about it. That's one reason I can't get fully on the Corey praise train. He has been so in denial of her disability to the point of insisting that she will walk down the aisle on her wedding day, people are making a big deal out of nothing, he "knows" she will walk, and that she isn't really disabled. Not only is that dangerous for her medical care, but it's offensive. You don't have to walk to live a worthwhile life. Plenty of people work full time, buy homes, fall in love, marry, have children, make art, and get graduate degrees with disabilities and he acts like that's not possible. Walking is really not the be-all end-all of life. If accessibility was improved, if would help things a lot more than just pushing people with muscular dystrophy to walk (I remember the episode where he said Leah let Ali be "lazy" by not walking all the time and using the wheelchair while he made her walk...eyeroll).

Luckily at the last doctor's appointment he seemed to have evolved. Hopefully he will continue to do so. Maybe he has educated himself more.

 

I wish I could upvote this a million times, but I can't.

 

As a person born with a disability myself, and one who uses a manual wheelchair full-time for mobility:

 

1. I have lived independently my entire adult life.

2. I worked full-time for a major commercial airline for 22 years

3. I have been the single mom to my soon-to-turn 20 year old daughter since the day she was born

4. I have cared for her physically, emotionally, and financially - alone - her entire life (she's currently enrolled in college out-of-state)

5. I have traveled throughout the US and Europe

6. Drive a VW Beetle Convertible, love to cook, know how to sew just about everything

7. Love men (and have had several love me back).

8. Take care of my house, do all my shopping - myself

9. Care for my two fur-babies and bun-bun

Etc.

 

So yes, I am just as angry at Corey and his feeling that having a disability somehow makes his daughter "less than." He's one that has apparently bought into the "better dead than disabled" crap and I have no patience for that garbage. HOW you get from point "A" to point "B" is irrelevant. It's what you do once you get there that counts. Independence is what is important. For some people, using a wheelchair allows them to be more independent. People who think just because someone uses a wheelchair they are more disabled (and therefore, more dependent) than someone who can walk -  are very wrong.

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But who suggested that? I know I didn't, and I don't recall any other posters referring to Jenelle's dump and jump as cause for calling cps. I am a mandated reporter. I am scrupulous and fair.

lezlers, your posts here sound like you are an attentive, purposeful mother. My observations on TM2 have nothing to do with your choices or with anyone else's opinions here. I am not a ridiculous person. I don't personally know you or anyone else who posts in here.

I watch this show, and I observe and critique the principals based on what I see. It's a reality show, edited, massaged and sculpted in the producers' and network's image. I get it. But, when I see what I see, I feel fine in reaching conclusions, then commenting on them.

But, make no mistake. My comments are aimed at the show and the people who AGREE to put their lives on public display. Even if a sister or brother poster takes umbrage -- because of their own choices and experiences -- they shouldn't take my opinions personally. Until you pop up on my tv or in my workplace as a client, I would never judge another person's parenting techniques in an ignorant vacuum.

What I saw in Jenelle's scene -- in and of itself -- was an annoyed and devoid-of-patience mother, dumping her child out of her end-of-rope selfishness-- and totally careless and cold in appreciating her child's distress and immediate needs.

 

Oh, I'm not taking any posts here personally at all!  Sorry if I came across that way.  I tend to have this insatiable need to speak up when I see people hammering an action that to me, doesn't seem bad at all.  Opinions and all that.   I was simply disagreeing with some other posters, stating my reasons for doing so and responding to their thoughts that were directed towards me.   Casual debate, if you will.  No feels involved whatsoever, I hope I conveyed that much with my very last post. 

 

No hard feelings at all.

Edited by lezlers
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I completely understand where you are coming from TwirlyGirly and Lm2162 but I think that it is important to remember that Corey was a teenager who has been living in the back of holler for most (if not all) of his life.  

Obviously being a wheelchair does not ruin your quality of life or make your life horribly sad or any other outdated way of thinking.  But I'm not going to blame a teenage father for being in denial that his little girl is going to have to be in a wheelchair because her body is degenerating and she won't live as long as her sister.   No one wants the news that their child's body is becoming weaker and so they need a wheelchair.  IMO Corey was in a state of grief which isn't uncommon when a parent is given news like that.  Sure it was stupid and unhelpful to say but Corey has never actually stood in the way of Ali's medical treatment- he and Miranda attend all the doctors appointments, he got the wheelchair and he took Leah to court to make sure that Ali makes it to therapy.  

Hopefully Corey realises that everything you guys (and everyone else) has said is true.  Could he have dealt with the situation better?  Absolutely.  Should he have been so adamant that she wouldn't need a wheelchair?  No.  But let's keep in mind that he was going through a roller coaster of emotions right on camera and that possibly he wasn't in the best frame of mind. 

 

I hope that doesn't insult anyone!

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One more quick comment on Corey saying he'd walk Ali down the aisle at her wedding. I do think he meant "walk" literally, at the time, but I also took it a slightly different way that maybe he meant he wanted her to live long enough for that day to happen. It's been awhile since I saw the episode but I thought they'd just gotten the news that her life would likely be cut pretty short. I suppose it's still a form of denial to insist she'll live that long but I thought it was kind of sweet in a way too.

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He did delay the use of the wheelchair (the timeline is so impossible to follow but I remember it being months rather than weeks, but again could be wrong) and prevent her from using it around him for a time against the doctor's recommendation, IIRC, presumably because as @TwirlyGirly said, there is a stereotype that people in wheelchairs are "more disabled" when actually people in wheelchairs have greater mobility and independence than many others. I understand his grief, but it was definitely selfish to keep her out of a chair so that he didn't have to see her in it and be reminded of her disability. People are raised in racist environments, but we don't as a society tend to give them a pass for being hugely racist, so I'm not as apt to give him a pass for being hugely ableist (his denial of her disability is not at all different from Kailyn's denial of her son's heritage, just more dangerous), at least in the past. I agree that hopefully he has changed quite a bit over the years and with more exposure to different kinds of people.

And while I do personally give him a huge pass because of the pain he was experiencing and his lack of education/general ignorant upbringing, those two things could be applied to much of the behavior we see on the show, yet we don't give it a pass because the person in question is less likable or is acting out in a way we might find less empathetic. I just hope the little comments, etc, don't continue when Ali is old enough to know, and that he doesn't insist she will be able to walk or "get better" instead of encouraging her to do things she finds fulfilling. He seems like a good guy at heart, so I do have hope for that, but I feel for her with those parents. Miranda seems great, though.

I can 100% understand why people who aren't wheelchair users themselves or married to one/with them almost 100% of the time would feel this isn't that big of a deal, but it's not just offensive, it's a truly frightening mindset and would have been absolutely child abuse in my mind if he had kept at it or if he had refused to get the wheelchair (and as much as I hate what Leah has become, I do wonder what would have happened if she hadn't insisted). So it's not as much about demonizing Corey as it is about putting behaviors in perspective...feeding your kids Cheetos and junk food instead of real food is an unhealthy behavior, but so was what Corey did, if not more so. I hope that education and awareness grow so that attitudes can change too. And I hope he really has grown.

In context, it was pretty clear that he very literally meant "walk," unfortunately. If he had just meant getting married, that would have been understandable.

Edited by Lm2162
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Ever heard of "vaguebooking?"  It's irritating as hell and SUPER narcissistic but totally a thing.  Looks like she was "vaguetweeting".  And Javi explained his reaction on the ep.  God, he's a jerk.

Yes! Too many everyday people do that sort of thing on Facebook. So annoying.

The thing about Kail is, she and Javi do this a lot according to the various tweets that have been linked to or posted here and on the previous message board. Now, why then does she complain about about the public when they speculate, assume, make judgments, or ask to know more? I am not seeking an actual answer to my question as I am aware Kail and Javi love the attention and need to be stroked by their "fans".

If you do not want people to judge, give their opinions or snark on you, then it is best to keep some things to yourself, keep things off camera and social media.

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I didn't hear Corey say that he thought his daughter would be less of a person if she was in a wheelchair.  If he said that then my bad.  If you are assuming it, maybe, but that's not how I took his resistance.  I saw it as denial of her illness.  She is gonna walk and be okay and won't need a wheelchair because doctors keep talking about a disease that can suffocate your child to an early grave.  I remember him saying and believing that the more she walked...the stronger her body would stay and could keep the illness at bay.  He was adamant about it because he was scared and let's be honest, not very educated just in general and in particular about about all things medical.  However, Corey and his family seem quite educated now.  He is the one saying that Ali's treatments and physical therapy are so important and cannot be missed.  I see him creating a home that is accommodating for her.  I don't see him ripping Ali up off the ground by her arm socket when she falls down.  

 

The thing that Corey doesn't get a pass from me about is cheating on his wife, but that's her deal...not mine.  

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I get why Leah has to take the girlses to school. She decided to move 45 minutes away. But, why is Corey having to drive them to school, too? Do they not have school buses in WV? I know Ali would have trouble boarding a regular bus, the stairs are steep. But, they don't have handicap accessible buses in WV? When our kids were little, they took the bus to school until they were in high school. One of the neighbor kids used a wheelchair and she rode the handicap accessible bus and they let her brother ride with her. When I drive by the local elementary school, I try to time it to avoid drop off and pick up time because there is a giant traffic jam of parents all trying to squeeze into the pick up area at the same time. Don't kids ride the bus anymore?

Or walk? I loved walking to or from school when the weather was nice. Also, how are working parents available to pick their kids up from school mid-afternoon?

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I think Cory was a young, uneducated kid, who at the time, didn't really understand his daughter's illness. His line of thinking was that the more Ali used her muscles, the longer she'd retain her strength. Sadly, we found out at Ali's last appointment with Dr. Tsao, that the opposite is true. Overworking her legs has caused them to deteriorate faster. Now that both Cory and Leah are equipped with this information and they're old enough to make better decisions, they need to exit the land of denial and follow Dr. Tsao's orders.

I know the timelines are screwy, but Ali is still not using the power wheelchair her medical professionals are insisting on, and that kind of irks me.

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Or walk? I loved walking to or from school when the weather was nice. Also, how are working parents available to pick their kids up from school mid-afternoon?

That'd be a long ass walk from Leah's on Monday morning. ;-)

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I think Cory was a young, uneducated kid, who at the time, didn't really understand his daughter's illness. His line of thinking was that the more Ali used her muscles, the longer she'd retain her strength. Sadly, we found out at Ali's last appointment with Dr. Tsao, that the opposite is true. Overworking her legs has caused them to deteriorate faster. Now that both Cory and Leah are equipped with this information and they're old enough to make better decisions, they need to exit the land of denial and follow Dr. Tsao's orders.

I know the timelines are screwy, but Ali is still not using the power wheelchair her medical professionals are insisting on, and that kind of irks me.

He told them this long ago in a much earlier episode and Corey chose not to believe it. He informed them that she needed to be using a wheelchair to preserve her strength (they didn't learn it at the last appointment) and he purposely delayed it. He told them long ago not to let her walk so much. Yes, they were young and immature, but they were equipped with the info long ago. Leah is irresponsible in not getting the wheelchair fixed quickly, but Corey did (for a time) choose to deliberately ignore it and push her to walk/not get the wheelchair. Of course he didn't understand it, but he could have looked it up once he got a diagnosis. He can use Twitter but he can't Google or read? I understand the pain of looking that up and following doctor's orders, but at some point you do have to do it for your daughter.

 

And yes, if you are insisting not that your daughter will be alive but that it's 'just her little way' instead of muscular dystrophy, that 'nothing is wrong with her,' and that she WILL walk and be 'normal,' and purposely delaying the wheelchair, you are most certainly insinuating that with a wheelchair she will not be living a full life. He made countless comments like this over quite a long period of time. At some point it does become selfish instead of sympathetic. I have sympathy for that, but only so much when the doctor is telling you the opposite and LEAH has to be the voice of reason.

 

Like I've said, yes, he was ignorant and thus didn't understand/made ableist comments/was in denial. But ignorance doesn't 100% excuse you. It seems that now he's mostly moved beyond that. I assume Miranda has had a major hand in that, though I'd never personally stay with someone who cheated on me with Perpetually-Lateface.

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The man was given the news his child was going to wither away and have a shorter life span. I have no doubt he was in denial, I can't say I wouldn't do the same. Plus I think Corey is a fixer, that his way of handling things is to find a solution. In his head I'm sure he reasoned her walking more meant strengthening her muscles and that it would help her. Obviously we know that is not the case and now Corey has finally accepted that as well. Corey will have that guilt to deal with for the rest of his life so I'm cutting the guy some slack. I'm sure he realizes now how foolish it was but it wasn't malicious, it was from love and being protective. It's an awful position for anyone to be in. I think he viewed her chair as the beginning of the end. That once she needed it, there was no going back and it would only be downhill from there. I think that's why he was so reluctant. I honestly feel if the Dr. told them she will be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life but she will grow old and have no other health issues he would have been a lot more accepting. Dealing with your child's impending mortality is an awful thing and I can't judge how they handle it, everyone grieves differently, as long as those girls know their daddy loves them and that they have a good healthy relationship with him then who am I to judge?

Edited by MrsPatrickBateman
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I think Cory was a young, uneducated kid, who at the time, didn't really understand his daughter's illness. His line of thinking was that the more Ali used her muscles, the longer she'd retain her strength. Sadly, we found out at Ali's last appointment with Dr. Tsao, that the opposite is true. Overworking her legs has caused them to deteriorate faster. Now that both Cory and Leah are equipped with this information and they're old enough to make better decisions, they need to exit the land of denial and follow Dr. Tsao's orders.

I know the timelines are screwy, but Ali is still not using the power wheelchair her medical professionals are insisting on, and that kind of irks me.

 

I am not sure what the filming timeline is, but Dr. Tsao was pretty clear at that appointment that Ali needed to start using her wheelchair and even said he would help arrange for it to be fixed. He even suggested they apply for the Make-A-Wish Foundation, apparently so Ali could have a wonderful experience doing something she wishes for before she can no longer walk. I don't imagine it would take months to get her chair fixed, so I had kind of thought we would have seen her using it -- at least sometimes -- by now.

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Ok so I had my wisdom teeth out this morning, so this may or may not be the most coherent thing I've ever said...so I apologize in advance

But as far as sleep training Kaiser, one of the first rules of sleep training is ensuring the child is safe and not in pain, it's true that timelines and editing are often tricky so that gives Jenelle a slight sliver of doubt I guess, but more often than not we've seen Jenelle tend toward neglect so I'm more apt to believe she dumped Kaiser in there more for her convenience than the purpose of sleep training, I could be wrong though, I guess there is a first for everything.

I'm not trying to start an argument or continue one, tbh I'm a little nervous to say this because I feel like people are being jumped on for expressing their opinion...but I am genuinely confused, while Corey has for sure been in denial about Ali's illness, I'm not sure I'm willing to say he has so much so to the neglectful end of things, and I really have never heard him imply Ali is damaged and better off dead... I am heavily medicated so I might have misunderstood that statement.

Finally Leah telling by the girls about the baby, I have 2 issues with this, one being I do not subscribe to the school of thought that one should always need to be explicitly told to be a decent human being. We have no idea if Jeff had persmission to post or not, so maybe that was a mistake on his part...but just because Leah saw it on social media did not make it ok to tell the girls, pretty sure the same could be said for her if Corey told the girls about all the stuff about Leah currently on social media, is that all fair game because it's on social media? But ok let's say perhaps she made a mistake or had a lapse of judgement as well, I can forgive that, maybe she honestly saw no issue with letting the girls know, fine... BUT that leads me to number 2...she used it as an opportunity to also belittle Corey and Miranda, saying multiple times "they should have called you first" and making sure the girls felt slighted in that... She could have said something like I'm sure they'll call as soon as they can, or given her I know how hard babies are speech, but no she made sure to make a dig at Corey and Miranda, and that is more my issue than simply telling the girls.

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