S07.E05: No Access

[lovesnark]

Did Cole really hire a professional photographer to hide in the bushes (they were in the woods) in order to take pictures of the moment he proposed? That's both strange and sweet.

Maybe, I'm just an old grump but I don't get the big fuss over getting engaged. It's nice but I don't get excited over a friend's ring and I definitely don't want to go to an engagement party or care about getting an announcement in the mail. I know, I'm a party pooper. Stop waving your damn ring in my face!

Will you be my new BFF? I don't get the need for a big production, especially if you've been living together and sometimes already have a kid or kids. I feel the same way about weddings. It was absolute torture for me to be in the middle of wedding planning and pulling the whole thing off with our daughter. I'm impressed with Chelsea and Cole for keeping their wedding private and not making a huge, televised spectacle of it.

[monagatuna]

she wasn't using birth control and I'm NOT okay with that, especially when they showed a conversation where Javi was saying he wanted to have another baby and she pooh-poohed the idea.

Interesting! So, when it comes to abortion, it's "her body, and she can do what she wants," but when it comes to contraception, you don't think she should have the right to go off it with her husband? Seems like a double standard, no?

I don't necessarily agree with this line of thinking, but I can understand the logic. Having an abortion directly affects the mother's life, and the father's life is not as directly affected. Sure, he doesn't get a child he might have wanted, and she ends a pregnancy she doesn't want. However, when you go off contraception, you're very likely directly affecting the dad's life by bringing a kid into it, while also directly affecting your own. I feel like I'm not saying this right, but hopefully you can understand what I mean. In the long term, you're only really affecting yourself with an abortion, but with an unintended pregnancy, you're affecting three lives: mom, dad, kid, eternally.

 

I don't mean to imply that an abortion of a wanted pregnancy won't harm the dad emotionally. But ultimately, that decision should rest with the mother. Ideally all of these decisions should be joint, especially in a long-term relationship or marriage, but I can understand someone laying sole decision-making about an abortion at the feet of the mother, regardless of how fair it might seem.

 

Edit: and I'm sorry for getting off topic, I just think whatever happened with Kail is sad and we have SO many other things we can snark on her about. Mostly I'm just mad that because I don't have cable anymore, I have no idea what Sterling's house looks like, I did not see an adorable kitty, and I'm mad that I haven't been able to see Randy's impersonation of Coley.

Edited April 12, 2016 by monagatuna

[ReadMeLattice]

But she states clearly that they were planning for the baby, so that's not the issue in this case.

[SPLAIN]

What happened to opinions?

Anyways, Jenelle just makes me sick. Poor Kaiser.

The only after show I ever want to watch is the one that features the kids. Let them speak their mind about all the drama in their lives without any repercussions from the so-called adults.

I want to watch Ali sing her lungs out. I want to read the book Grace should write. The title may be "Cats and Cheetos". The second one would be titled "Running Late".

[Mkay]

You can't make the negotiation officially a part of the settlement, but I'm assuming her lawyer was trying to stealthily tell Jenelle that if she quit being a bonehead about visitation of the roll she could get the criminal charges dropped. It's not like they'd put it on the court minutes or anything. That being said, she went about it horribly. From that conversation alone, I'd assume that lawyer couldn't negotiate herself out of a paper bag.

And there were plenty of posts in the breaking even (was that the name? Two eps back) thread about the abortion thing with Kail. It was about 5 pages in. Someone posted the blind item and others jumped on it, taking it as gospel truth (you know, because it was something bad about Kail so it MUST be true.) Before this ep, when it was solely the gossip, snarking was one thing but after tonight's ep it just seems....mean. I think people aren't taking umbrage at snarking about gossip, it's the subject matter. Snarking on miscarriages is kind of shitty. No one said you couldn't do it, they just said it's a shitty thing to do.

The initial abortion claim came from a comment on the Teen Mom 2 Facebook that someone posted links to showing some girl saying it was all over campus I'm Delaware that Kail was cheating on Javi and had an abortion. I then brought up that I had read a claim in the blinds claiming someone in teen mom 2 had one.

They are really trying to make something happen with the boring couple. Adam might be on his phone more than the rest of them but which one isn't attached to their phones? And showing him asking if they want to go to grandmas. That's where they stay on the weekend and they might have been at the center for hours by then. They are having a hard time facing the fact that Adam isn't doing anything interesting right now.

The only ones never glued to their phone is Jo and Vee. I'm sure we can blame everyone else's on editing or Corey and Miranda. Hahaha

They are really trying to make something happen with the boring couple. Adam might be on his phone more than the rest of them but which one isn't attached to their phones? And showing him asking if they want to go to grandmas. That's where they stay on the weekend and they might have been at the center for hours by then. They are having a hard time facing the fact that Adam isn't doing anything interesting right now.

The only ones never glued to their phone is Jo and Vee. I'm sure we can blame everyone else's on editing or Corey and Miranda. Hahaha

[lovesnark]

What happened to opinions?

Anyways, Jenelle just makes me sick. Poor Kaiser.

The only after show I ever want to watch is the one that features the kids. Let them speak their mind about all the drama in their lives without any repercussions from the so-called adults.

I want to watch Ali sing her lungs out. I want to read the book Grace should write. The title may be "Cats and Cheetos". The second one would be titled "Running Late".

"Gas Station Breakfasts" She can do an entire series of books!

[StatisticalOutlier]

Neither.....Her full name is Remington and I believe she's named for the guns.....

 

Great.  I can't wait for little sister Beretta.

 

 

And if there had been no pictures, people would bitch that she's on a reality show, how dare she keep something private.

 

I wouldn't.

 

 

Interesting! So, when it comes to abortion, it's "her body, and she can do what she wants," but when it comes to contraception, you don't think she should have the right to go off it with her husband? Seems like a double standard, no?

 

She definitely has a right to go off contraception, but my recollection of the episodes is that we see her saying she doesn't want to have another kid right now, and the next thing we see is a miscarriage.  How did that happen if she didn't want to have another kid?  TM touts itself as having all this influence over teenagers and their reproductive choices, and then they have women saying they don't want to get pregnant but end up getting pregnant anyway.  What's the message there?

 

Maybe it all has to do with the timeline as presented, but it's what was presented and therefore what we have to go on. 

 

 

Maybe, I'm just an old grump but I don't get the big fuss over getting engaged. It's nice but I don't get excited over a friend's ring and I definitely don't want to go to an engagement party or care about getting an announcement in the mail.

 

My issue is that we're STILL having engagements predicated on a man proposing.  I find it hard to believe that despite all the advancements women have made, we still haven't gotten past that.  To me, the decision to get married should happen in private, during a discussion (or series of discussions) during which a meeting of the minds occurs and voila!  We're getting married..  I just don't get the whole proposal thing, especially since it's almost always the man doing it), and I definitely don't get asking her father's permission (assuming that's what Cole did--I only marginally pay attention to their scenes).   I know, I know, it's a tradition or whatever.  But I find it demeaning to women and frankly, beneath us.

[Mkay]

Agreed the timeline seems really weird. I know the timeliness are always screwy on this show but I find this one extra confusing. The only thing I can think of is the not wanting another baby right now conversation must have been practically one of the first things they filmed, but even then it seems like barely enough time for all that to happen. Maybe she was already pregnant when that was filmed? (even if she didn't know yet)

I've read from one of the girls interviews that they are filmed one week every month. So it's likely a month may have passed between the conversation about pregnancy and the miscarriage. It's possible. Going by that same timeline last season, one week every month seemed to fit and by the time they were done with the season it was June (or July) on screen and we were on the last episode in August.

Example being we know Leah lost her kids in September (ish) if that's the case 5 episodes in we are now at December. (jenelles Christmas tree and javi's deployment) It fits somewhat.

[teapot]

...thought better of it

Edited April 12, 2016 by teapot

[ReadMeLattice]

I don't know if Chelsea is really having any feminist thoughts or engaging in thoughtful critiques of social norms and the nuanced symbolism of cultural practices, lol. Her ring is shiny and she took 47 years to get her GED.

I think the timeline as presented was awkward, but certainly after the fact she says they planned it for a long time and it's made clear that quite a bit of time passed due to the hospital visit and her desire not to discuss the issue on camera.

Named after a gun?! These people are class acts.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Lm2162

[Darknight]

Jenelle is an idiot. That is all.

Lmfaooooo

[Maharincess]

Who gives a shit if it took her "47 years" which is virtually impossible. She got it, that's what matters.

And she didn't have to go to prison to get it like another "mom" did.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Maharincess

[Mkay]

In November Kail was tweeting about the most horrible day of her life. (If anyone wants to google there were many articles) I'm guessing that now it is the miscarriage. It's around the same time she found out Javi was being deployed. A friend sent flowers with a thinking of you card and Kail tweeted how seeing families in public was making her cry because it reminded her of this "most horrible day of her life." Neither she nor Javi ever said what it was. Now, I'm thinking it is the miscarriage. So it took until December for her to discuss it. If that is what it was.

http://okmagazine.com/photos/kailyn-lowry-javi-marroquin-divorce-rumors-cryptic-tweets-teen-mom-2/photo/1001344726/

Edited April 12, 2016 by Mkay

[Chicken Wing]

Regarding Chelsea and her GED, I know it seems like it took forever because it spanned three seasons on the show, but it was only one year after she would have graduated regular high school.

[Darknight]

Guess TR and his kid's moved out?

Janelle, this is why you don't have a job outside of MTV:

And she wonders why she can't get a job in medical

[TwirlyGirly]

StatisticalOutlier, on 12 Apr 2016 - 6:33 PM, said:

Great.  I can't wait for little sister Beretta.

 

 

 

 

 

And finally the twin boys - Trigger and Wesson.

[NikSac]

I've read from one of the girls interviews that they are filmed one week every month. So it's likely a month may have passed between the conversation about pregnancy and the miscarriage. It's possible. Going by that same timeline last season, one week every month seemed to fit and by the time they were done with the season it was June (or July) on screen and we were on the last episode in August.

Example being we know Leah lost her kids in September (ish) if that's the case 5 episodes in we are now at December. (jenelles Christmas tree and javi's deployment) It fits somewhat.

Ah thank you! That's interesting and I hadn't heard that before. 1 week per month would explain how they miss so much stuff too. No wonder they're having to reenact scenes.

If that's the case it's kind of surprising what they do manage to catch. Leah can't get up early enough one day per MONTH to get the girls to school without total chaos even if it's just a show for the cameras? Wow. I'm sure some of it's got to be timed too like Jenelle's lawyer call. I wonder if Barb knows to expect 3 dozen "I want my son" calls during filming weeks even more than new boyfriend weeks. Makes sense how it was easy for Cole to not have the engagement filmed too. Hmm. Thanks again for that info.

[Mkay]

You are welcome. I suck at finding and linking things from my phone but if I can find where that was said, I'll try and post it up. Maybe they pick the week Leah and Janelle have court. I'm sure they ask the girls to call if a major event happens. Who knows. Last season it really did seem to fit that schedule.

[BitterApple]

"Gas Station Breakfasts" She can do an entire series of books!

Lmfaooo! She can do one of those made-for-Tv commercials like the lady with the Dump Meals cookbook!

Regarding the engagement photos, I think it's just standard S.O.P. for the under 25 crowd to document every detail of their lives. If my niece gets a diet coke from the corner store, there a picture on Instagram two seconds later. For me personally, I actually enjoy the engagement and wedding stuff, it's baby showers and gender reveals that make me want to run straight off a cliff.

[Lemons]

My issue is that we're STILL having engagements predicated on a man proposing.  I find it hard to believe that despite all the advancements women have made, we still haven't gotten past that.  To me, the decision to get married should happen in private, during a discussion (or series of discussions) during which a meeting of the minds occurs and voila!  We're getting married..  I just don't get the whole proposal thing, especially since it's almost always the man doing it), and I definitely don't get asking her father's permission (assuming that's what Cole did--I only marginally pay attention to their scenes).   I know, I know, it's a tradition or whatever.  But I find it demeaning to women and frankly, beneath us.

 

It is ridiculously outdated.  Women can ask men to move in with them, to have babies with them, but can't propose?  To be fair, many women do propose, but the women is still the one with the ring on.  And I can't get started with how I feel about the stupidity of diamonds. 

Regarding Chelsea and her GED, I know it seems like it took forever because it spanned three seasons on the show, but it was only one year after she would have graduated regular high school.

 

She did it, that's what counts. 

[BitterApple]

And finally the twin boys - Trigger and Wesson.

My co-worker has a son named Gage which is kind of a cool take on the guns and ammo baby name theme.

I think it was kind of sweet that Cole asked Randy for permission to propose to Chelsea.

Edited April 12, 2016 by BitterApple

[ReadMeLattice]

Who gives a shit if it took her "47 years" which is virtually impossible. She got it, that's what matters.

And she didn't have to go to prison to get it like another "mom" did.

Lol @ "virtually impossible." I was kidding about the possibility of Chelsea rethinking social norms or adopting some kind of critical feminist mindset. She's a nice girl, but that's not gonna happen.

I like Chelsea, but she's not a bright girl and never has been. Lots of other great qualities, but she's really quite dim. Amber is similarly dim, yes. As is Leah.

I'd be really interested to learn the girls' IQs.

[NikSac]

BUT IS LEAH'S CAT OKAY????

The other day I was looking for that clip where she went hysterical over the kitten that died (ETA not this one, a season or two ago) and couldn't find the clip but found several articles talking about how many cats she's been through. I notice we rarely seem to see a full grown cat in her house. They did show a little clip of this cat/kitten at the end so I hope that was MTVs way off saying the cat was ok, this time at least.

Edited April 12, 2016 by NikSac

[FlowerofCarnage]

And finally the twin boys - Trigger and Wesson.

Or Heckler and Koch.

[GreatKazu]

Bless you.

And if there had been no pictures, people would bitch that she's on a reality show, how dare she keep something private.

Oh, this is definitely true.

I specifically remember how a few people jumped on Chelsea for daring to keep Cole away from the MTV cameras. The argument was, Chelsea is on a tv show. She should share her life with the viewers because the show is about her life and struggles. How dare she hide a boyfriend!!! Really?

The only problem with that view is, it does not apply to certain other cast members.

Thanks mod for stepping in. The redundancy is headache-inducing.

You are welcome. I suck at finding and linking things from my phone but if I can find where that was said, I'll try and post it up. Maybe they pick the week Leah and Janelle have court. I'm sure they ask the girls to call if a major event happens. Who knows. Last season it really did seem to fit that schedule.

Thanks so much for finding links, proof, and all the sources to certain info.

[Mkay]

http://www.mtv.com/video-clips/43fld2/teen-mom-2-sneak-peek-aubree-talks-about-mommy-getting-married

A sneak peak of next weeks episode and a sad statement by Aubree, but not a big shock.

[lovesnark]

My co-worker has a son named Gage which is kind of a cool take on the guns and ammo baby name theme.

I think it was kind of sweet that Cole asked Randy for permission to propose to Chelsea.

I loved Randy's impression of Cole asking him. Our daughter's husband did the same thing. Being the wedding hating, anti mother of the bride that I am, I wanted to say 'You've been sleeping with her for three years and you're asking for permission to marry her?' - LOL! But, I didn't. I acted all thrilled like I was supposed to :)

[StatisticalOutlier]

And finally the twin boys - Trigger and Wesson.

 

Or Heckler and Koch.

 

Too sophisticated; they'll definitely stick with made in the U. S. of A.  Smith and Wesson it will be.  Trigger will be the dog.

[ReadMeLattice]

Oh no-- Leah and Jeremy's dinner date for next week! Terrifying.

[kdl88]

Neither.....Her full name is Remington and I believe she's named for the guns.....

http://www.remington.com/

That's what I assumed, as well.

[ktwo]

Oh no-- Leah and Jeremy's dinner date for next week! Terrifying.

Leah is clearly all dolled up ready for a reconciliation, and I think the conversation will be about Jeremy getting custody, Corey-style.

[Pepper Mostly]

Ugh.  I am usually just a lurker but I can't stay quiet for this one.

 

Leah.  You twat.  That whole "I'm going to ask your Dad if you can stay with me, etc." scene just made me sick.  There was no reason for her to tell the girlses it was even a possibility until she had gotten an answer from Corey.  The way she did it...all she did was get their hopes up only to be dashed, and then to foster resentment in them against their father (her true intent, I'm sure.)  I know it would never count for anything in the eyes of DHS or a judge (maybe under the terms of parental alienation), but to me that is nothing less than mental ABUSE. Depression, anxiety, addiction...none of them are any kind of excuse for that kind of behavior.

YES, a thousand times. Or, as opposed to getting their hopes up, causing all kinds of stress and anxiety that they'd have to spend the majority of time at Leah's, with the attendant chaos and disorder, instead of Corey and Miranda's organized, orderly home where they have structure and are secure. She is a selfish bitch, intent only on undermining Corey.  She is not thinking of her kids well being. She is awful and those adorable, bright little girls deserve better. 

[FlowerofCarnage]

I feel asleep on the episode last night and I am watching now. OMG, the interior of Sterling's house looks like something out of an adult coloring book.

[Lemons]

Regarding the engagement photos, I think it's just standard S.O.P. for the under 25 crowd to document every detail of their lives.

 

It is and it has to stop.  I am so tired of getting run over on the sidewalk in NYC because the 20 year olds are fixated on their screen.  Or them holding up the line in a store because they can't tear themselves away from their phone long enough to complete a transaction in a timely manner.  It's actually all ages but they younger, the worse it appears to be. 

[Maharincess]

All Jeremy said was he had a few things to discuss with her and she instantly gets all flirty and smiley and asks what he wants to talk about.

Wasn't she living with another man during that time? If she was, why would she get so excited about Jeremy wanting to "talk?".

I feel asleep on the episode last night and I am watching now. OMG, the interior of Sterling's house looks like something out of an adult coloring book.

Colored in by a blind person.

[Lemons]

I feel asleep on the episode last night and I am watching now. OMG, the interior of Sterling's house looks like something out of an adult coloring book.

 

I actually give her credit for putting up colors that she enjoys, not just what you are supposed to have if you are striving for upper middle class (kail).  I think if a color makes you happy, you should surround yourself with it.

[poeticlicensed]

All Jeremy said was he had a few things to discuss with her and she instantly gets all flirty and smiley and asks what he wants to talk about.

Wasn't she living with another man during that time? If she was, why would she get so excited about Jeremy wanting to "talk?".

Colored in by a blind person.

I instantly thought Jeremy was going to follow suit and take Leah to court to try to get custody. I wouldn't want my kid living in that chaos

[Lemons]

http://www.mtv.com/video-clips/43fld2/teen-mom-2-sneak-peek-aubree-talks-about-mommy-getting-married

A sneak peak of next weeks episode and a sad statement by Aubree, but not a big shock.

 

The manipulation of that child has got to stop.  Chelsea needs to be really careful she doesn't cross the line into parental alienation. 

[sleekandchic]

When Jenelle dumped Kaiser in his crib, announced "time for sleep!" turned off the light, and clicked the door shut -- all accompanied by that baby's screams and cries of terror. -- oh how I wanted a futuristic, interactive screen, so I could reach in and throttle Jenelle, aka Mother of the Millennium.

Randomly speaking...

...ALL the principals on the TM franchises are liars of some sort. A few are super duper practiced, others know how and when to pull out a self-serving whopper, and some have been lying so long and so loud and so greedily, that they themselves cannot keep track of their own lies and begin to believe them. Miscarriages, family planning, marriage proposals, addicts, drunks, altercations, black eyes, in-laws, outlaws and puta galore! I let most of it wash over me, like the flood of bullshit it mostly is. All I can do is focus on the babes, watch their faces and their coping mechanisms. It's an education in itself.

...I'm glad Cory is trying to be an attentive, purposeful dad, but he's no saint. No canonization coming from me. I'm glad Randy continues to support Chelsea, but it's always been my opinion that his indulgence of his daughter and inability to ever say No to her, contributed to the mess she was and is today. Sure, comparatively, Chelsea looks much more evenkeeled than the other TMs. But she's not. Cole will be disappointing her soon enough and BOOM! home to Daddy.

...But it's the kids! Right now, Gracie is adorable grabbing her cat and sneaking him into the car, sure. But I see the writing on the wall already for Gracie grabbing her stuff and sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night to hook up and get some validation. IOW, Mama Leah and Daddy Cory Redux.

...Same with Jace. He'll be a daddy at 14 or 15. He'll be snorting and smoking and smacking women as a way of life. County lockups will become his home away from home. He will never trust or feel secure in any other human being, imo. Never.

Aubree will be searching for Daddy-Adam substitutes all her life. Why didn't daddy ever really love me; ever pay attention to me? Why is mommy so dependent on a man's attention to prove her worth?

TM is a perpetual round robin of waste and tragedy playing out right before our eyes. The money and steady employment afforded by MTv COULD have been godsends for these undereducated, immature, rudderless people. Instead, the money and fame have magnified what's wrong deep at their cores. With no real guidance or counseling, the TM principals were lost from the moment they signed on.

And now we see the next generation being primed and pumped to go down the rapids of no return, too. All those beautiful, innocent children....

Edited April 13, 2016 by sleekandchic

[crazychicken]

From Jeffs twitter

There are many words to describe Aliannah Hope, none of them are "liar." #sweet #intelligent #beautiful #inspiring #honest #blessing #lovin

Normally he is diplomatic about Leah but it looks like insulting Ali was a step too far for him, he has also responded about texting and driving being illegal in WV

[leighroda]

I will not comment as far as abortion v.s. Miscarriage is concerned because one Facebook post does not prove anything for me and either way it's not my business to speculate.

BUT I will say I am really confused about the timeline... Yes, people can change their minds, and that is 100% their perogitive... But it is startling to me that it went from I do not want another child right now to we've been working and planning for this and had it timed perfectly. I blame MTV editing more so, I'm not questioning Kail's position, she is free to do what she wants and she can change her mind in one day if she so chooses, but in this specific case it feels like a big detail is missing, because with a woman's cycle being 28 days you just can't go from I don't want kids at all to a perfectly planned/timed pregnancy in a span of a few months (I have no idea what the filming schedule is but it seems like one season is usually a couple of months at a time). I am not attacking her or her side of the story but I don't understand what MTV did with the editing... Normally I turn a side eye to the blaming of editing, but it really doesn't make sense in this case. There are only a few days a month a woman can get pregnant, so if there was a lot of consideration put into timing to me that would say it was probably a short span of months toget pregnant (since one of her biggest time constraints she said was school) and I have no idea if birth control was involved which would add the obstacle of being able to get pregnant again. My point is I'm just really confused, they (Javi and Kail)don't owe me any explanation, but I don't understand the logic of this editing.

[FlowerofCarnage]

I actually give her credit for putting up colors that she enjoys, not just what you are supposed to have if you are striving for upper middle class (kail).  I think if a color makes you happy, you should surround yourself with it.

it wasn't so much the color, but the patterns.

[poeticlicensed]

When Jenelle dumped Kaiser in his crib, announced "time for sleep!" turned off the light, and clicked the door shut -- all accompanied by that baby's screams and cries of terror. -- oh how I wanted a futuristic, interactive screen, so I could reach in and throttle Jenelle, aka Mother of the Millennium.

Randomly speaking...

...ALL the principals on the TM franchises are liars of some sort. A few are super duper practiced, others know how and when to pull out a self-serving whopper, and some have been lying so long and so loud and so greedily, that they themselves cannot keep track of their own lies and begin to believe them. Miscarriages, family planning, marriage proposals, addicts, drunks, altercations, black eyes, in-laws, outlaws and puta galore! I let most of it wash over me, like the flood of bullshit it mostly is. All I can do is focus on the babes, watch their faces and their coping mechanisms. It's an education in itself.

...I'm glad Cory is trying to be an attentive, purposeful dad, but he's no saint. No canonization coming from me. I'm glad Randy continues to support Chelsea, but it's always been my opinion that his indulgence of his daughter and inability to ever say No to her, contributed to the mess she was and is today. Sure, comparatively, Chelsea looks much more evenkeeled than the other TMs. But she's not. Cole will be disappointing her soon enough and BOOM! home to Daddy.

...But it's the kids! Right now, Gracie is adorable grabbing her cat and sneaking him into the car, sure. But I see the writing on the wall already for Gracie grabbing her stuff and sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night to hook up and get some validation. IOW, Mama Leah and Daddy Cory Redux.

...Same with Jace. He'll be a daddy at 14 or 15. He'll be snorting and smoking and smacking women as a way of life. County lockups will become his home away from home. He will never trust or feel secure in any other human being, imo. Never.

Aubree will be searching for Daddy-Adam substitutes all her life. Why didn't daddy ever really love me; ever pay attention to me? Why is mommy so dependent on a man's attention to prove her worth?

TM is a perpetual round robin of waste and tragedy playing out right before our eyes. The money and steady employment afforded by MTv COULD have been godsends for these undereducated, immature, rudderless people. Instead, the money and fame have magnified what's wrong deep at their cores. With no real guidance or counseling, the TM principals were lost from the moment they signed on.

And now we see the next generation being primed and pumped to go down the rapids of no return, too. All those beautiful, innocent children....

This is the end result when children have children.

[jadecorleone]

Great.  I can't wait for little sister Beretta.

 

 

 

I wouldn't.

 

 

 

She definitely has a right to go off contraception, but my recollection of the episodes is that we see her saying she doesn't want to have another kid right now, and the next thing we see is a miscarriage.  How did that happen if she didn't want to have another kid?  TM touts itself as having all this influence over teenagers and their reproductive choices, and then they have women saying they don't want to get pregnant but end up getting pregnant anyway.  What's the message there?

 

Maybe it all has to do with the timeline as presented, but it's what was presented and therefore what we have to go on. 

 

 

 

My issue is that we're STILL having engagements predicated on a man proposing.  I find it hard to believe that despite all the advancements women have made, we still haven't gotten past that.  To me, the decision to get married should happen in private, during a discussion (or series of discussions) during which a meeting of the minds occurs and voila!  We're getting married..  I just don't get the whole proposal thing, especially since it's almost always the man doing it), and I definitely don't get asking her father's permission (assuming that's what Cole did--I only marginally pay attention to their scenes).   I know, I know, it's a tradition or whatever.  But I find it demeaning to women and frankly, beneath us.

That is pretty much how my hubby and I got engaged. It was close to our one year anniversary and even though in the beginning of our relationship I had told him that I was unsure how I felt about marriage,by that time I had decided I did wanna get married. So I approached him one morning and decided to ask him how he he felt about the whole thing. We had a wonderful conversation that ended with him popping the question. 

 

Bonus fact: he proposed to me on our couch while the movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still" was playing on the tv. 

[HeySandyStrange]

 

...ALL the principals on the TM franchises are liars of some sort. A few are super duper practiced, others know how and when to pull out a self-serving whopper, and some have been lying so long and so loud and so greedily, that they themselves cannot keep track of their own lies and begin to believe them. Miscarriages, family planning, marriage proposals, addicts, drunks, altercations, black eyes, in-laws, outlaws and puta galore! I let most of it wash over me, like the flood of bullshit it mostly is. All I can do is focus on the babes, watch their faces and their coping mechanisms. It's an education in itself.

...I'm glad Cory is trying to be an attentive, purposeful dad, but he's no saint. No canonization coming from me. I'm glad Randy continues to support Chelsea, but it's always been my opinion that his indulgence of his daughter and inability to ever say No to her, contributed to the mess she was and is today. Sure, comparatively, Chelsea looks much more evenkeeled than the other TMs. But she's not. Cole will be disappointing her soon enough and BOOM! home to Daddy.

...But it's the kids! Right now, Gracie is adorable grabbing her cat and sneaking him into the car, sure. But I see the writing on the wall already for Gracie grabbing her stuff and sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night to hook up and get some validation. IOW, Mama Leah and Daddy Cory Redux.

...Same with Jace. He'll be a daddy at 14 or 15. He'll be snorting and smoking and smacking women as a way of life. County lockups will become his home away from home. He will never trust or feel secure in any other human being, imo. Never.

Aubree will be searching for Daddy-Adam substitutes all her life. Why didn't daddy ever really love me; ever pay attention to me? Why is mommy so dependent on a man's attention to prove her worth?

TM is a perpetual round robin of waste and tragedy playing out right before our eyes. The money and steady employment afforded by MTv COULD have been godsends for these undereducated, immature, rudderless people. Instead, the money and fame have magnified what's wrong deep at their cores. With no real guidance or counseling, the TM principals were lost from the moment they signed on.

 

 

Man, and I thought I was a glass half empty person lol. I guess I give Chelsea and/or Corey types of dysfunction a pass, because nobody and no family is perfect and as long as someone isn't totally FUBAR*, I can accept them. A large swath of humanity has say, Chelsea levels of dysfunction and still manage to function well enough.  Leah and Jenelle levels of dysfunction...yeah, they and their situations can be hard to watch.  I worry about their children, but have some hope that they have a chance to turn out better. I think the twins and Addie have a chance, being as they have other family then the Messers to fall back on. Jace is trickier. I want the best for him but between Barb and Jenelle, he is going to have a tough time.

 

*F-ked up beyond recognition

[Blissfool]

I agree with whoever addressed the Kail / abortion / miscarriage rumors. Until / if there's ever solid proof (which I don't see how there would be unless she specifically addressed it), I don't feel right speculating.

I feel this exact way about the "hired photographer at the engagement" theory. ;)

Also, i thought Nathan's girlfriend looks 45 and i want proof that she isn't!

ETA: i guess the proof is in the instagram post. There WAS a photographer lurking in the bushes. Creepy. I stand on the "pictures-arent-required-for-every-life-event-especially-when-the-photographer-needs-to-hide" side of the fence.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Little Spoon

[BitterApple]

The manipulation of that child has got to stop. Chelsea needs to be really careful she doesn't cross the line into parental alienation.

I think Chelsea and her family have been toeing that line for the past two seasons. Adam is a piece of crap, but I wish she'd stop trying to sell Cole as the end-all, be-all. Aubree is a bright kid with a family that loves her. It's not like her life was shit before Cole came into the picture. I also think it's unfair to build Cole up as 'perfect dad.' It's an impossible standard to live up to. The day will come when Cole has a bad day at work and doesn't feel like playing with Aubree when he gets home. He's going to get burnt out pretty quickly if Chelsea expects him to keep Aubree entertained all the time.

Edited April 13, 2016 by BitterApple

[lilmarysunshine]

It is and it has to stop.  I am so tired of getting run over on the sidewalk in NYC because the 20 year olds are fixated on their screen.  Or them holding up the line in a store because they can't tear themselves away from their phone long enough to complete a transaction in a timely manner.  It's actually all ages but they younger, the worse it appears to be. 

Preach!  High school teacher here who absolutely loathes smartphones. They are making our kids dumb and mentally lazier.

[poopchute]

I've read from one of the girls interviews that they are filmed one week every month. So it's likely a month may have passed between the conversation about pregnancy and the miscarriage. It's possible. Going by that same timeline last season, one week every month seemed to fit and by the time they were done with the season it was June (or July) on screen and we were on the last episode in August.

Example being we know Leah lost her kids in September (ish) if that's the case 5 episodes in we are now at December. (jenelles Christmas tree and javi's deployment) It fits somewhat.

I still don't see how all that can happen within a month. In 30 days they went from saying they didn't want a kid to deciding they did want one, going off birth control, getting pregnant, and having a miscarriage? I guess they could have had the first conversation on one day, then the literal next day they could have said nevermind lets have a baby, then the next day stop birth control and ovulate that same day, two weeks later have positive pregnancy test, and then within days of the positive test have miscarriage and go to hospital. I guess it works out.

[Bluethcs24]

When Jenelle dumped Kaiser in his crib, announced "time for sleep!" turned off the light, and clicked the door shut -- all accompanied by that baby's screams and cries of terror. -- oh how I wanted a futuristic, interactive screen, so I could reach in and throttle Jenelle, aka Mother of the Millennium.

Randomly speaking...

...ALL the principals on the TM franchises are liars of some sort. A few are super duper practiced, others know how and when to pull out a self-serving whopper, and some have been lying so long and so loud and so greedily, that they themselves cannot keep track of their own lies and begin to believe them. Miscarriages, family planning, marriage proposals, addicts, drunks, altercations, black eyes, in-laws, outlaws and puta galore! I let most of it wash over me, like the flood of bullshit it mostly is. All I can do is focus on the babes, watch their faces and their coping mechanisms. It's an education in itself.

...I'm glad Cory is trying to be an attentive, purposeful dad, but he's no saint. No canonization coming from me. I'm glad Randy continues to support Chelsea, but it's always been my opinion that his indulgence of his daughter and inability to ever say No to her, contributed to the mess she was and is today. Sure, comparatively, Chelsea looks much more evenkeeled than the other TMs. But she's not. Cole will be disappointing her soon enough and BOOM! home to Daddy.

...But it's the kids! Right now, Gracie is adorable grabbing her cat and sneaking him into the car, sure. But I see the writing on the wall already for Gracie grabbing her stuff and sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night to hook up and get some validation. IOW, Mama Leah and Daddy Cory Redux.

...Same with Jace. He'll be a daddy at 14 or 15. He'll be snorting and smoking and smacking women as a way of life. County lockups will become his home away from home. He will never trust or feel secure in any other human being, imo. Never.

Aubree will be searching for Daddy-Adam substitutes all her life. Why didn't daddy ever really love me; ever pay attention to me? Why is mommy so dependent on a man's attention to prove her worth?

TM is a perpetual round robin of waste and tragedy playing out right before our eyes. The money and steady employment afforded by MTv COULD have been godsends for these undereducated, immature, rudderless people. Instead, the money and fame have magnified what's wrong deep at their cores. With no real guidance or counseling, the TM principals were lost from the moment they signed on.

And now we see the next generation being primed and pumped to go down the rapids of no return, too. All those beautiful, innocent children....

All of this.