Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[merylinkid]

The show really didn't celebrate the South.   Sure they were proud to have ancestors who fought for the South.   Sure the horn played Dixie.   But they treated everyone with respect.   And the COMPETENT sheriff was the one over in Chickasaw county who was Black.   Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

As for naming the car after General Robert E. Lee, General Lee WAS asked to lead the Union troops.   He declined because he did not want to fight against fellow Virginians.    One of the only 2 people to go through West Point with 0 demerits (General MacArthur was the other one).   He was descended from a long line of military heroes including Revolutionary War, General Harry Lee.    So, there is a lot more to General Lee's legacy than 4 years when he led the South.

[merylinkid]

Wait people don't like Hastings from Poirot?   How the hell not?   He was a good decent guy trying to face a new world after WWI.   Sure he wasn't as smart as Poirot, but Poirot was a smug little git that you wanted to slap.    Hastings was the one you wanted to take home.

[callie lee 29]

Here's one, Gibbs from NCIS. Not Mark Harmon, I love him, and I so want to love Gibbs, but they write him as such an insufferable, sanctimonios asshole. And he's never wrong. Even when he is wrong, he's still never wrong. Drives me up the fucking wall. I stopped watching the show quite a few seasons ago, and now can only watch as long as it is not a Gibbs centered episode.

[yourpointis]

I loved Cut Throat Bitch (Amber) from House. She was ballsy, cunning, and knew how to push House's buttons. Damn those PTB for killing off her character. I think how much better the final season(s) could have been with her undermining House's authority at every turn as well fighting him for Wilson's attention/time. Eventually it may have gotten old, but anything would have been better than Martha Masters (yawn) and whatever Cuddy ended up becoming by series end.  

[callie lee 29]

I'll echo the Will love. He was actually my favorite character on the show. Glee's hard. I think at anytime pretty much anyone was universally hated on that show.

 

Criminal Minds: More recent, but I LOVE JJ.

[Misslindsey]

Felicity from Arrow. I liked her initially, but the strong love for her and how everything she does is awesome made me dislike her. Also, I could care less about Olicity. For me less is more with Felicity. To be fair I am not a Laurel fan either. 

[DearEvette]

I have to agree about Pete Campbell.  I always liked Pete and thought Don was a shit.  Pete also had pretty progressive advertising ideas that Don and co, pooh-poohed away. And I will always heart him for the look of utter distaste on his face when Roger did his black-face song & dance number.

 

I'll also add Tara from True Blood.  I never got to hate for her.  She was mind raped, body raped, kidnapped, terrorized & had one of the worst parents on tv.  And yet she always had Sookie's back even when Sookie never had hers because she was too busy obsessing over Beel.

 

And fianlly, Skyler from Breaking Bad.  I admit I found Skyler annoying at times, but I appreciated her point of view.  She acted exactly the way a person in her position would most naturally act. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by DearEvette

[spaceytraci1208]

Olivia Pope [scandal] From the first episode, I was annoyed with the level of ass-kissing she received from her team. Her relationship with Fitz was kind of intriguing in the first season, but I was beyond over it by the second.

[Joe]

Spike, though he has long been a love or hate character. The moment I stopped liking him was somewhere in the episode Crush, where it turned out he had a crush on Buffy. After that, there was nothing he did or said either on Buffy or Angel to make me like him again. James Marsters is fine in other things, it's all about the chracter.

[Pickles Aplenty]

Donna from That 70's Show.  I thought Eric could have done so much better. 

[ganesh]

Yeah, I think Dukes of Hazzard was a little much. I know the theme song talks about "good ol' boys", which can carry a connotation. But the show was about car chases and a basset hound. The boys were known to peddle moonshine, no? And the cops were crooked. 

 

I mean, you could argue that Knight Rider was an upgrade of DOH. 

[kathyk24]

I can't stand Reid from Criminal Minds. He has no personality and I can't stand how he's treated like a teenager by the cast and the fans. I hated Goren from Law and Order CI Once Carver left their was  noone to rein him in. I loved the Criminal Intent episodes that didn't include him.

[Featherhat]

The thing about GOT is that yeah Women in cod-medieval societies and GRRMs books in particular did not live in particularly safe times for not being raped and murdered. But *neither did the men*. For example this past season Tyrion and Jorah's storyline

should have seen them get raped multiple times by the slavers. Tyrion's scene where he promised his cock was as big a non dwarf's should have had the slavers gather round to inspect his cock and use it to humiliate him. Even in "modern" times kidnappers routinely use rape as a quick way of breaking their victims. No way does Tyrion get excused that torture if we were going for realism.

Same with Jamie all the times he has been kidnapped. No way do all those enemy soldiers ignore humiliating the Kingslayer/alleged sister fucker and only taunt Brienne. That's if we were going for realism of course, but male rape isn't portrayed so routinely on this show.

[paulvdb]

Ha! But, you guys, he was SNARKY! I mean, who cares if he's a soulless, remorseless would-be rapist and general tormentor of everyone he encounters? What matters is that he reels off a few mildly amusing one-liners, so all is forgiven, and we can get back to blaming female characters for all the stuff that's really his and/or Logan's fault ;) [/sarcasm]

 

Replace Dick Casablancas' name with Spike's and you'd still be right. :-D

Or Damon Salvatore. And if I give it some thought I can probably name a few more who could fit the description.

[Demented Daisy]

I don't give a damn that The Dukes of Hazzard was pulled.  Didn't watch it as a kid, don't watch it now.  TVLand can pull any show it likes; it's hardly censorship.  History isn't being erased.  The Civil War still happened.  Kids are still learning about it in school.  

 

I fail to see how a tv show (that isn't even about the Civil War) being canceled is proof that America is trying to "closet away" part of its history.

[andromeda331]

I've been watching Mad About You lately and realized I like Ursula so much better then Phoebe on Friends.

[junemeatcleaver]

I don't care that networks and corporations are more "sensitive" or "politically correct".  It's about time they acknowledge that other people exist beyond the majority and that symbols and images and words aren't just "history" but shit that's been used to terrorize folks for decades.  That flag has always been hurtful, it just didn't become a thing just recently because Twitter wanted something to be outraged about.

 

Now should Dukes be taken off, I don't know.  I do know I'm not going to shed any tears whether that relic is on or over the outrage that it's been pulled off the air.

[ribboninthesky1]

The thing about GOT is that yeah Women in cod-medieval societies and GRRMs books in particular did not live in particularly safe times for not being raped and murdered. But *neither did the men*. For example this past season Tyrion and Jorah's storyline

should have seen them get raped multiple times by the slavers. Tyrion's scene where he promised his cock was as big a non dwarf's should have had the slavers gather round to inspect his cock and use it to humiliate him. Even in "modern" times kidnappers routinely use rape as a quick way of breaking their victims. No way does Tyrion get excused that torture if we were going for realism.

Same with Jamie all the times he has been kidnapped. No way do all those enemy soldiers ignore humiliating the Kingslayer/alleged sister fucker and only taunt Brienne. That's if we were going for realism of course, but male rape isn't portrayed so routinely on this show.

 

I don't watch GOT (and haven't read the books) so I wondered about this.  Very interesting.

 

I don't care that networks and corporations are more "sensitive" or "politically correct".  It's about time they acknowledge that other people exist beyond the majority and that symbols and images and words aren't just "history" but shit that's been used to terrorize folks for decades.  That flag has always been hurtful, it just didn't become a thing just recently because Twitter wanted something to be outraged about.

 

Now should Dukes be taken off, I don't know.  I do know I'm not going to shed any tears whether that relic is on or over the outrage that it's been pulled off the air.

 

All.Of.This. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[andromeda331]

I don't care that networks and corporations are more "sensitive" or "politically correct".  It's about time they acknowledge that other people exist beyond the majority and that symbols and images and words aren't just "history" but shit that's been used to terrorize folks for decades.  That flag has always been hurtful, it just didn't become a thing just recently because Twitter wanted something to be outraged about.

 

This yes! That flag should have been ripped down a long time ago. Coincidently, the Sports Night episode about it was on this morning and Eli said it much better then I ever could and at lot nicer. And its not because of Twitter either as you've pointed out. People have been wanting those flags ripped down for a long time but there's always been some bull about why it shouldn't be.

[Joe]

Back on the Buffyverse, Wesley Wyndham-Pryce. When he was introduced, he was a stuck-up figure of comic relief. When he popped up on Angel, they tried to make him into a badass we should like. The harder they tried, the more annoying I found him. Some characters, it just doesn't work. Not quite Poochie level, but in that same vein.

[applecrisp]

My UO that will piss folks off.

 

I really like Poldark 2015.  I'd like to talk to people about Poldark 2015, not how it compares to the 1970's version or the book version.  If you don't like this version, then don't watch.  If you liked the book better, read the book; if you liked the 1970's version, then watch that one.  Don't go on and on and on about, "her hair's the wrong color" or some shit like that.  It's like GOT, people who complain that the TV show is different from the books.  If you want to read the books, then read the books, goodness.  

Where can you watch this show?  Thank you.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Where can you watch this show?  Thank you.

 

 

Masterpiece Theater on PBS.

[Sweet Tee]

 

I loved Cut Throat Bitch (Amber) from House. She was ballsy, cunning, and knew how to push House's buttons. Damn those PTB for killing off her character. I think how much better the final season(s) could have been with her undermining HOUSE'S AUTHORITY at every turn as well fighting him for Wilson's attention/time. Eventually it may have gotten old, but anything would have been better than Martha Masters (yawn) and whatever Cuddy ended up becoming by series end.

 

Yes to all of this.  I think House's Head/Wilson's Heart were two insanely well done episodes and made for a finale I'll never forget.  But, I still hated to lose Amber.  She was a breath of fresh air from the usual type of women House was surrounded by.  And Cuddy?  Ugh, I would feel sorry for Lisa Edlestein for what they did to her character except I'm pretty sure she was a driving force behind it.  

 

As for DW, I adore Martha.  No matter how many times people try to explain why they don't like her, I will continue to be perplexed by it.  I've been a fan of Freema Agyeman since then and I've made an effort to watch everything else she's done. Martha is easily my favorite companion.  

 

I understand why some people hate Rose but I found Billie Piper to be very endearing and I think that went a long way with the character for me.  If she had been played by someone else, I might have hated her too because the writing for her in season 2 could be pretty awful.  I feel the same way about Gwen from Torchwood.  I get why people hate her and the writing for her made her come off as a complete asshole but Eve Myles had something about her that made me unable to hate Gwen.

[Ohwell]

Cookie Lyons.  Y'all know her.

[Chaos Theory]

The Skyler White Hate on Breaking Bad actually kinda pissed me off. I never understood it at all. I thought the hate bordered on bitchy "first impression syndrome." Ask most people why they hated her and they mention a half hearted hand job a nine month pregnant woman gave her husband on his birthday during the first episode as a reason to hate the character for the rest of the show.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

I can't stand Reid from Criminal Minds. He has no personality and I can't stand how he's treated like a teenager by the cast and the fans.

Thank you I felt alone in my dark corner. I liked him in the beginning but not so much in the later years.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[ganesh]

I don't think anyone is trying to erase history. Every public figure who has said the rebel flag should be taken off state property has immediately and subsequently said that putting the flag up at your house is protected speech. Even Bush took the flag down in FL and put it in a museum. Which is where it belongs. It's a part of history, not even really from the Civil War, but more so from the rise of the KKK fighting against the civil rights movement in the 1960s. We have museums as a repository of our history. I don't think anyone disagrees that the flag should be there versus removed from existence. 

 

As for Trump, he can say whatever he wants about Mexicans. He should not and will not go to jail for whatever he says. However, if he is in contractual business relationships with the people he is disparaging, and seeking the presidential nomination on top of that, they're well within their rights to sever their business relationships if Trump's comments are going to cost them money. Or sponsors are threatening to pull out. That's how the world works. 

[Misslindsey]

Amy Pond and River Song from Doctor Who. I usually keep my mouth shut about disliking these two characters, because I always felt I should love them, because so many people do. I never liked Amy. I hated her introduction and the way she treated Rory (Though Rory was kind of a doormat). River Song always came off as smug and a know it all to me. I liked the actresses, just hated the characters.

[mansonlamps]

I can't stand Reid from Criminal Minds. He has no personality and I can't stand how he's treated like a teenager by the cast and the fans.

Totally agree. And they can drop the " Dr. Reid" b.s. anytime now, he hasn't looked too young to be an agent for quite a while if ever. Frankly I think JJ looks just as young or younger.

Edited July 3, 2015 by mansonlamps

[Rick Kitchen]

Amy Pond and River Song from Doctor Who. I usually keep my mouth shut about disliking these two characters, because I always felt I should love them, because so many people do. I never liked Amy. I hated her introduction and the way she treated Rory (Though Rory was kind of a doormat). River Song always came off as smug and a know it all to me. I liked the actresses, just hated the characters.

 

Rory deserved so much better.

[amensisterfriend]

Dr. House---He kind of falls into that same 'it's totally cool that he's a malicious, smug, narcissistic ass as long as a certain percentage of his wiseass remarks are mildly funny!' category we were chatting about earlier. 

 

Gil Grissom---A socially awkward, unabashedly intellectual geek? Sign me up...or so I thought! Unfortunately, nothing about the writing or acting for this character worked for me.

 

Kate Beckett---For starters, I think the actress is woefully miscast as a 'tough' cop. I just find her a brittle, undefined, and often even vaguely unpleasant character, and she's one of many instances where the writers seemed to conflate 'strong female character people can admire' with 'flawlessly plastic, unrealistically perfect at absolutely everything she does because giving her any relatable human flaws and weaknesses might earn us accusations of not making her 'strong' enough!' She just never felt like a real, relatable person to me.   

[Enigma X]

Jason Gideon (Criminal Minds)- He is still my favorite character from the show.

Martha Jones and Amy Pond (Doctor Who)- Hands down favorite new Who companions.

Jack Shephered (Lost)- I also liked Sawyer.

Adam Ruzek (Chicago PD)- I prefer him to Jay.

[Kromm]

Okay, I'll dig into the past again.

 

I didn't hate Dr. Pulaski on Star Trek Next Gen.  But I always got the sense everyone else did.  She sure got banished quickly enough when Gates McFadden decided that Star Trek money smelled good enough to come back.  Sure Pulaski was a bit of a watered down female version of McCoy, in terms of personality. Clearly they did think she'd be the same counterpoint to Data that McCoy was to Spock. And maybe Data didn't really NEED that. But if she'd stayed on the show longer she might have had a chance to grown some other use. I frankly never liked the pseudo-romance vibe between Picard and Dr. Crusher (which they made into an actual romance later on), and the ship's Doctor is a logical source of well... not conflict... but someone who allowed the Captain's to question his own opinion. Troi was supposed to fit that role, I suppose, but Trio was kind of a failure at that. Pulaski had more potential in that department.

 

Speaking of Trek characters, I present another challenge (nobody took up my "Defend Colin Baker" challenge in my Doctor Who post).  Defend Wesley Crusher--a character SO annoying even Wil Wheaton (to this day) makes "Shut Up Wesley" jokes. Deanna Troi is also a challenge, although less of one than Wesley.

[DittyDotDot]

Defend Wesley Crusher, I'll give it the old college try. I don't know why, but never really had a problem with him. He was a kid and kids are annoying and whiney. Would I want to hang out with Wesley, probably not. But, I don't want to hang out with 90 percent of the population either, doesn't mean they don't make for interesting characters.

[millennium]

Wesley grew up without a father, so he overcompensated by being the brightest boy in the room.  He was raised by a Starfleet doctor -- no dummy -- so expectations in that household would have been high to begin with.   In episodes I remember, he always seemed desperate to fit in, desperate to impress.   Especially around Picard, his surrogate father figure.    I think it was that same need that led him to participate in the forbidden Kolvoord Starburst maneuver at the Academy, an episode I always loved because it finally grounded the kid.   It was a hard landing, but necessary.  And Picard came through as the stern but loving father figure Wesley always needed. 

 

Wesley was the also focus of one of STNG's more prophetic episodes -- the one where everybody gets so addicted to a new game that they become withdrawn, obsessed, walking down ship's corridors playing the game, ignoring everything and everyone around them.   Substitute iPhone for game and voila.   Wesley saved the day in that one.

[FormerMod-a1]

Deeks on NCIS: LA.  I wrote this about him in a topic in that forum.

 

When I heard he [Deeks] had been made a regular for season 2 just didn't watch.  I couldn't stand his mop top, trying to hard to look like stereotype of southern California dude, trying too hard in general, puppy dog act, but really insecure and actually quite annoying shtick.  I could bare make it through the eps he was in during Season 1.  So I dropped it Season 2 and never came back.  Then I heard the character had gone through some stuff and they let it affect him and "stick" so I tried again, a few episoded even and nope...  he's still the same annoying character.  Get rid of him and I'll come back.  (Maybe this should be in an UPO thread, heh).

[Featherhat]

I'll give Colin Baker a try. Colin Baker the actor, because he wasn't colour blind hated the clown get up he wore and wanted to wear something completely different IIRC something Nine-ish. For some of the spin off media (audio dramas etc) they've dyed his costume blue and it looks heaps better.

 

Six could also be a reaction to Five's life and personality, both on the show and off. I liked Five a lot but so many of his episodes ended with the Tardis gang literally standing on a heap of corpses being the only ones left. You can see why Tegan just got sick of it. He was the universe's punching bag and Six learned to punch back, in the same way Nine and ten are both reactions to the Time War. It was also to remind the audience that the Doctor isn't just a man in search of a cricket game who just stumbles into massacres. He's an alien not a mild mannered village cricketer from 1911. And it TV terms to make the Doctor as different from Peter Davison just as he was different from Tom Baker and Tom was different from Pertwee.

 

His first act is to violently strangle Peri? Well doesn't that mimic a lot of what the fandom wants to do? Six hates his companions as much as we do! He's cursing Five's habit of leaving the Tardis unlocked and letting any random who wondered in stay. He let Tegan come back even though he didn't seem thrilled about it. Six was proactive about annoying companions!

 

And seriously so much shit was being flung around behind the scenes that its amazing that Colin Baker has stayed as positive about the show as he has. I haven't heard any but apparently the Big Finish audio plays completely rehabilitate Six.

 

Tegan's another one that seems marmite-y. I started off in the "hate her" category but have recently swung around into "love her". She's a fairly realistic companion. She yells at the Doctor when he takes them somewhere dangerous/scary, she's at first frustrated when she can't get to Heathrow and she leaves because she just can't take another pile of dead bodies and jaunting around the universe with Five's body count simply isn't fun any more.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Featherhat

[Shannon L.]

 

The Skyler White Hate on Breaking Bad actually kinda pissed me off. I never understood it at all. I thought the hate bordered on bitchy "first impression syndrome." Ask most people why they hated her and they mention a half hearted hand job a nine month pregnant woman gave her husband on his birthday during the first episode as a reason to hate the character for the rest of the show.

I agree. I never got the hate for her.  I enjoyed the show, but I can't say I liked any of the characters, but hating?  Nope, I didn't hate her character especially.  She was stuck between a rock and a hard place.  I don't know if I'd have been any different in her situation. 

 

Here's an old one:  Kim Bauer on 24.  Yeah, one of her story lines in a later season was kind of dumb, but I didn't hate her and I honestly never understood why everyone else did. 

[amensisterfriend]

I'm among those who usually finds Criminal Minds' JJ bland and undefined and borderline too perfect---but even *I* think the hatred for her is way, way over the top. I also don't think the writing for her is markedly worse than it is/was for most other characters on that show. Ironically, the relentless vitriol against JJ---to the point where that (and the corresponding 'everything about Reid is perfect and he should be featured on screen every second!') dominates pretty much every single thread---is slowly pushing me towards thinking 'jeez, JJ's really not THAT bad, and here's why...' and hence liking her more than I had for years. I'm really childish and contrary that way ;) Plus, I blame myself for contributing to the excessive, thread-dominating JJ hate and may be trying to atone for past sins! 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Totally agree. And they can drop the " Dr. Reid" b.s. anytime now, he hasn't looked too young to be an agent for quite a while if ever. Frankly I think JJ looks just as young or younger.

 

*springboards*

 

I don't know if JJ counts as "widely loved" or not, since not many people I know who watch the show like her, but for whatever reason Ms. Pantene Hair has fans. At least I feel like I know who Reid is, whereas JJ is still the same cipher she was ten years ago.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Chaos Theory]

I'm among those who usually finds Criminal Minds' JJ bland and undefined and borderline too perfect---but even *I* think the hatred for her is way, way over the top. I also don't think the writing for her is markedly worse than it is/was for most other characters on that show. Ironically, the relentless vitriol against JJ---to the point where that (and the corresponding 'everything about Reid is perfect and he should be featured on screen every second!') dominates pretty much every single thread---is slowly pushing me towards thinking 'jeez, JJ's really not THAT bad, and here's why...' and hence liking her more than I had for years. I'm really childish and contrary that way ;) Plus, I blame myself for contributing to the excessive, thread-dominating JJ hate and may be trying to atone for past sins!

This is one of the reasons I stopped going to the CM board because I found myself watching a repeat of a Reidcentric episode spending my time going "shut up Reid." It is probably not fair because I usually don't hate him but the more I see others see him as perfect and and hate on JJ the more it affects my viewing.

For the record I like JJ I always have but that is in large part to liking the actress and being a lot more tolerant of female characters then male ones especially on cop shows.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[amensisterfriend]

I love Reid (though I can totally get why some don't!), but it does get so tiresome that there's so much adoration for him and corresponding hatred for JJ, as if she deliberately conspired to steal their beloved Reid's screentime, that it just feels like every single conversation centers on that and nothing else. I'll ask about favorite seasons, favorite episodes, stuff re. the cases, OTHER characters/relationships etc., and more often than not the response is some version of "Reid is amazing and JJ is the worst." It's an example of hatred for a single character marring the enjoyment I derive from discussing a show despite not even being fond of said character! 

 

Another widely hated character who I at least semi-like: The Vampire Diaries' Elena. Right away we kind of knew that anyone stuck being the central point of an ongoing love triangle was in for an uphill battle (do obnoxiously prolonged love triangles ever do any characters any favors?!), and the writers certainly didn't help by making her so cipher-y and led by her attachments to the Salvatore brothers, but somehow I could never dislike her. I think it comes back to liking Nina Dobrev's screen presence even when the scripts are lacking :) 

Edited July 3, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I'm among those who usually finds Criminal Minds' JJ bland and undefined and borderline too perfect---but even *I* think the hatred for her is way, way over the top. I also don't think the writing for her is markedly worse than it is/was for most other characters on that show. Ironically, the relentless vitriol against JJ---to the point where that (and the corresponding 'everything about Reid is perfect and he should be featured on screen every second!') dominates pretty much every single thread---is slowly pushing me towards thinking 'jeez, JJ's really not THAT bad, and here's why...' and hence liking her more than I had for years. I'm really childish and contrary that way ;) Plus, I blame myself for contributing to the excessive, thread-dominating JJ hate and may be trying to atone for past sins! 

 

*waves at amensisterfriend*

 

FWIW, it isn't really JJ I dislike, its what I see as the current showrunner's over-identification with her. IMO, its fairly obvious that the EP sees JJ as everything thatr's right, and if that makes Reid everything that's wrong, then too bad. I said pretty much the same thing when Spike was taking over the universe at BTVS, that a character that had once been okay with me turned into everything I hate about fandom in general, a clear favorite overshadowing what are (for me) the more interesting characters.

[amensisterfriend]

CoStar, we can always bond over our unique fondness for Elle/Reid and the sadly overlooked (though probably not outright disliked enough to be mentioned here...?!) Alex Blake! 

[amensisterfriend]

Another nominee: Grey's Anatomy "McDreamy." I can't even type out that nickname without cringing ;) Most hated Meredith (and I can get why), but back when I watched the show I was actually rooting for her to move on from the smirky, smug, arrogant, deadly dull Derek. I don't even think the actor is all that gorgeous, but even if I did, it wouldn't have been enough to make me swoon over this character like most women I know did and still do :)   

Edited July 3, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Featherhat]

River Song. I can't stand her and she seems to be a big favourite among Whovians I know. Her entire arc seems to be summed up in smuggy Mc Smuggerson with a special Smug- flourish on top.

 

In theory I should like the idea of the Doctor having multiple encounters with a fellow time traveller who's timeline doesn't remotely correspond with his own, but it falls flat in execution for me. I don't find anything remotely cute about the continual "no spoilers!" or River once again demonstrating how super duper awesome she is. I think part of it is that I've never had any time for Alex Kingston on ER/Who or Arrow etc

 

The "you keep the breaks on" bit irrationally annoyed me since multiple TARDIS's for 50 years have been making that sound and nor is it something that anthropomorphic TARDIS chose to bitch about a few episodes later. Oh and they literally made her a Time-ish Lady just because. Conceived in the Vortex so Time Lady (basically) even The Doctor thought that was stupid. I know its a silly sci fi show but that was way too easy. I just never felt the character ever earned her attitude. By all means have someone outwit the Doctor and sometimes have him on the defensive but so much of what River was happened off screen that it felt so cheap when she did everything from piloting the TARDIS to knowing his Gallifreyan name just because it was cool.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Echoing the Pete Campbell love, and I'll also throw in Connor from Angel. Something about Vincent Kartheiser's acting just sells me, that even at their most fucked up, both Connor and Pete get my sympathy much more so than either the passive-aggressive Angel or "alpha male" Don. And just to be even more unpopular, Angel brought that trip to the bottom of the ocean on himself, since he set up the perfect situation for Connor to think he'd killed his "other father."

[Chaos Theory]

Hey if you can like Connor. I can like Dawn. I know from your previous post Cobalt Stargazer that you don't like Spike (and I get why). but I actually enjoyed Spike's relations with Dawn. I thought it was weirdly cute.

[cheezwhiz346]

I have weird feelings re: Xander and Ross, because I enjoy watching both of them, but I agree with a lot of the issues people have with them, and I think part of that is because a)I watched BtVS and Friends when I was much younger, and wasn't as critical a TV viewer as I am now, and b)I think the actors do a tremendous job with the characters. 

 

That said, it's weird to me how in a lot of communities in which I participate (read: feminist), hating on these guys is like toeing the party line. It's not that I don't agree that they had their moments, esp. w/r/t Xander, but IDK. I feel like with Xander he got so much cred for being the 'normal guy' who 'fights the good fight' and I think that was really overblown (I see it somewhat on smaller forums like on Storywonk), but the criticism in reaction to that became more like outright hatred of everything he says or does, and I'm not comfortable with that either. I want to be able to discuss each characters' flaws without starting from a place of unequivocal hatred, which fortunately bigger forums like Previously.tv allow. (This is not meant to be discussing fandom behavior, and I tried to keep it general; but I think my feelings of the characters are somewhat tied to the reactions of others online).

[cheezwhiz346]

I'm sure I have a lot of answers for this, but right now what I've been chewing on is how much my annoyance for a certain character is tied to a)how fandom at large reacts to said character and b)if fandom's reaction (or a particular attachment to the actor) influences the show's direction more than, say, the actual story. (Exhibit A: Spike, which is why, even though I really enjoyed watching him for the great majority of the time he was on BtVS and I think the actor did a wonderful job, I literally feel my teeth clench when I hear someone talk about how great he was before even mentioning the show's titular character or one of the Scoobies).