S02.E15: King Shark

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When King Shark escapes from an A.R.G.U.S. holding tank, Lila and Diggle travel to Central City to warn The Flash. King Shark shows up at the West house and attacks Joe, Iris, Wally and Barry.

[Trini]

https://youtu.be/yfwfxz6lJHg

 

Not a fan of Jaws, so not looking forward to all those references. I am looking forward to Diggle interacting with Team Flash, though!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

For the sake of Diggle's stomach - and my own aversion to vomit (even fake) - here's to hoping that Flash doesn't need to speed-save his person or run him somewhere for some reason.

[Trini]

[mtlchick]

They need to add metahuman home insurance in Central City.

 

That ending tho..."Aw hell no."  

[ottoDbusdriver]

So is Zoom from Earth 3 ?  Or Earth 4 ?  And who is the Man in the Iron Mask on Earth 2 -- yet another Jay Garrick ?

[Jediknight]

Holy crapola, Jay is actually Zoom.  Caitlin really does have horrible luck with guys.

 

I was surprised to see them admit that Barry going back in time was a massive mistake.  Also that Barry took responsibility and said that decision killed people.

[Arynm]

Oh wow! Did not guess that Zoom would be yet another Jay. So there has to be at least an Earth 3 if not Earth 4 depending on the man in the iron mask. Poor Caitlin, I hope her Jay is (was?) not a bad guy.

[Rai]

Dear Cisco:  don't be a condescending dick to the girl in the room.  Looking forward to her showing up your brain at some point.

 

Dear Barry:  Wally would probably like you more if you didn't mope all the way through family game night.  A thought.

 

Dear Cisco (again):  just to reiterate, let Caitlin grieve.  It's cool.  No pun intended.

 

I legit can't believe I'm watching a show that asks viewers to take serious the concept of a super-fast guy fighting a man/shark hybrid.  What a glorious age we live in.

 

The mystery of the Jays deepens.

[cambridgeguy]

Hey, there's a version of Jay who isn't a mopey loser!  Sure, he's evil, but nobody's perfect.

 

So I guess the plan is for Wells to live in Star Labs for the rest of his life?  It's not like he can walk around in public.

[Trini]

Nooooo.... not Jay! (Hunter Zolomon??)

[nerdyduck]

Love King Shark.  You know that's got to cost a lot of money on effects but it turned out very well.

 

It nice when we get reminded that Barry and the gang are friends with the Green Arrow crew.  I like those little snippets.

 

And seriously, Jay?!?!  Or Hunter Zolomon?  Or Man in the Iron Mask?  It's so confusing.

 

But seriously, can we get one mentor that's not an evil doppelganger?

Edited February 24, 2016 by nerdyduck

[Lantern7]

Congrats to those who guessed Zoom was (a) Jay. Now to guess who The Man In Iron Mask is. Another Jay? Another Barry? Wally-2?

 

I felt this was a filler episode with Diggle, Lyle and Jesse tacked on. Unlike Grodd, I don't think King Shark is "good" enough to put in the spotlight. It does bring up "Breachers" that could be stranded on Earth-1. Isn't Linda-2 still skulking around somewhere?

 

Watching Barry/Wally was painful. You'd think Joe would have told Wally about how Barry's mother was brutally murdered and his father went to Iron Heights for it. I guess that tidbit had to wait until the final act.

 

Poor Caitlin. And Cisco is still a dork. How much money would Harry have bet on Barry and Cisco caving about their Earth-2 adventures?

[Jediknight]

But seriously, can we get one mentor that's not an evil doppelganger?

There was Stein, but he's on Legends of Tomorrow now.

[Maverick]

 I still say the man in the mask is Wally.   The hands look African-American.  

 

 Jay is probably some kind of Jekyll and Hyde deal.  I'm thinking the accelerator explosion split him in two.  It's a riff on when the transporter split Kirk in two, with one half being evil and aggressive while the other turns into a useless coward.

[CocoaGoddess]

I firmly believe that there are three Jays in that room. The dude in the iron mask, he had Teddy Sears' eyes.

 

I feel like the answer to everything was revealed three episodes ago, and it's just now kind of coming together, but it's fuzzy and I just can't make out the plot in any significant, coherent way. Based on them going out of their way to bring back Thawne and give us that bullshit explanation about the speed force "cocooning" Thawne to keep him in existence (which makes Eddie's sacrifice totally worthless, but whatever), I gotta believe that all three of those Jays are speed addicts from different timelines, not universes. 

 

In any other sci fi story, the time traveling guy killing himself would be all kinds of paradoxical, but not this special snowflake of a show, because Thawne. 

[CMH1981]

 

I still say the man in the mask is Wally.   The hands look African-American.

 

I thought that too when we first saw the man in the mask, the hands were what made me think that...but in last weeks episode we saw his neck and hair-line, he was caucasian with what looked like blonde hair, so i'm thinking Eddie or another Jay at this point.  

[bmoore4026]

Once again, I can't stand Wally.  I know he's integral to the lore, but he's a 25-year old "teenager" that needs his ears boxed.  If a steamroller villain showed up sometime the future and flattened him like a pancake, I would cheer so loud!

 

Also, Jay is so obviously not dead and Caitlyn is so totally going to turn into Killer Frost.

 

And can they come up with new voices for the villains?  King Shark sounded exactly like Zoom.

 

And Zoom is Earth 2 Eddie.  Say that three times fast.  Earth 2 Eddie.

 

(That was Eddie, wasn't it?  All these DC Comics/CW guys are starting to look alike to me.)

 

Next episode, Jessie becomes quick.  I don't know why she can't also be strawberry blonde.

Edited February 24, 2016 by bmoore4026

[Trini]

Love King Shark.  You know that's got to cost a lot of money on effects but it turned out very well.

The only problem I had with King Shark was that apparently he doubled in size from his first appearance.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

-  King Shark.  Jaws on Steroids... who also wears pants and talks.

 

-  I can count the number of Flash episodes, on one hand, where nobody cried.  And just a few fingers on that one hand , the number of total episodes where Barry himself wasn't the crier.  We get it, guys, GG is a good emoter.  But unless its in his contract and he's paid by the tear, the effect kinda gets muted after so much overexposure.

 

-  We can finally move past Wally's jealousy over Barry's part in the family.  'bout time.

 

-  "DON'T TALK ABOUT EARTH-2!!!!!!"   (three minutes later)  Blabbing everything about Earth-2.

 

-  So, we must be dealing with some form of Infinite Universes in Flash's overall mythology, huh?  I mean, we've seen (at least) 4 Jay Garrick doppelgangers now.  [yes, I'm saying I think IM!man is another JG]

Edited February 24, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[foreverevolving]

Oh wow! no one saw Jay being zoom coming, no one at all.. *rolls eyes*.

Just like the man in the iron mask is also Jay..

 

Now the question is: different Earth's/timeline or twins? ummm

[jay741982]

Once again, I can't stand Wally.  I know he's integral to the lore, but he's a 25-year old "teenager" that needs his ears boxed.  If a steamroller villain showed up sometime the future and flattened him like a pancake, I would cheer so loud!

 

Also, Jay is so obviously not dead and Caitlyn is so totally going to turn into Killer Frost.

 

And can they come up with new voices for the villains?  King Shark sounded exactly like Zoom.

 

And Zoom is Earth 2 Eddie.  Say that three times fast.  Earth 2 Eddie.

 

(That was Eddie, wasn't it?  All these DC Comics/CW guys are starting to look alike to me.)

 

Next episode, Jessie becomes quick.  I don't know why she can't also be strawberry blonde.

I think that's the Female speedster Trajectory Not Jessie

[miracole]

Barry is whiny and moody

Barry cries

Barry gets a pep talk

Barry loves Joe more than he'll ever love any woman

rinse and repeat

[Trini]

'The Flash Boss Talks About the Big Zoom Reveal'

As in the fella who pointed out to us his own doppelganger and claimed that the bespectacled guy’s name was Hunter Zolomon — when in fact that is his own damning identity.

As in the poor sap who last week loitered too close to the speed cannon, allowing Zoom to seemingly reach through from the other side and kill him, then yank his body back to Earth-Two.

How can all of the above be true? After all, “our” Jay has been so nice. Vanilla, even. Heck, his only shortcoming has been that time he disappeared for a poorly timed… nap?

“I don’t think you can assume anything that Jay has said to the team or the audience is the full truth. It is a version of the truth,” Flash showrunner Andrew Kreisberg told TVLine via email.

And if anyone is surprised by the reveal, Kreisberg says the evidence was squarely placed in front of you in the aforementioned park scene.

“What’s funny is we showed that Jay’s doppelganger was Hunter Zolomon, and we assumed the comic book fans would say, ‘A-ha’ right away. ‘Jay must be Zoom.’ But I think that, like Barry and the team, they didn’t want to or just couldn’t believe it.”

 
Ugh, I hate the bolded; why would they want to ruin E-2 Flash??

 

“The mystery of the Man in the Iron Mask will play out over the rest of the season with some clues being layered in along the way,” Kreisberg says. “When you do find out who it is, everything will make sense in a very satisfying way.”

Haaaaaaaa. I've watched to too much TV to be fooled by that old lie.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Trini

[benteen]

King Shark was fun.  I like the FX on him and the battle at the end was great.  Major plus for Barry finally accepting that it was his fault (and his friends as well) that the rift was open because it was his fault.  I like Angrier Caitlin too.

 

-Diggle just felt tacked on and underutilized.  Nice to see Lyla is head of ARGUS though.

 

-I’m tired of Barry acting like a whiny and moody fool whenever he’s upset.  Every single time he does that he does something foolish.  He never seems to learn everything.

 

-The scene where Barry tells Joe and Iris about Earth-2 was good but I’ve had it with Barry crying EVERY SINGLE EPISODE.  I used to joke about John Wesley Shipp being paid by the tear but it’s pretty clear that GG is as well.  Enough already!

 

-The observation that King Shark opened up Joe’s house like the Kool-Aid guy was brilliant, as was Joe’s nonplussed reaction to the whole thing.

 

-Bullets don’t hurt King Shark but for God’s sake Diggle and Lyla, could you at least have fired at him as he was getting away in the beginning?

Edited February 24, 2016 by benteen

[festivus]

I spent most of this episode wanting to punch Barry in the face and then GG king of criers struck again.

[Trini]

Yes, Barry's Tears made another guest appearance, but on the other hand, I liked that he acknowledged his role in the events of the past past season.

[Slovenly Muse]

I'm pretty much over Cisco's "concern" that Caitlyn might be leaning towards Killer Frost's path. What an enormous hypocrite. I couldn't stomach his attitude, knowing that he was a villain as well on E-2 (and Reverb was even worse than KF), but his concern was not about what "their" experiences could cause "them" to become, but only whether CAITLYN might be turning into a supervillain because.. of her legitimate reason to be sad? What a load of patronizing BS. Unless you're equally concerned about yourself turning evil, give it a freaking rest.

 

Damn, Barry really is carrying the weight of the world. An entire world that he sealed up and left to the mercy of his enemy. I'm glad he decided not to give up on taking down Zoom. Apart from the fate of E-2, leaving things as they are would eat Barry up inside and he would never be the same.

 

I totally understand Barry and Wally's awkwardness around each other (whom they perceive to be the "real" son), but it is not the most fun to watch. I'd like to see how Wally integrates with the family when all the necessary bridges have been built and they can all just relax and be on each other's side. I know it'll take awhile to get there, because drama, but I don't think I'll be totally into this storyline until it does.

 

Also, not knowing who is who anymore and what Jay belongs to what world, I'm totally tempted to start calling Zoom "Alt-Jay." Until Cisco comes up with something less obscure ;)

[Ruby25]

I wasn't crazy about this one. Everyone was just too mopey.

 

Next season, I think the writer's room needs to stick to this theme: Make Barry happy and goofy again. It's not fun to see him like this and it's not beneficial to the show either. I know he's a good crier, but pull that card like a few times a season and the rest of the time make him happy and joyful.

 

I don't like Wally. I'm sorry, but I'm just not warming up to this actor much. It kinda worries me, because he and Barry are supposed to have a really close relationship eventually, and I don't know if I can see that happening here with him. Not sensing chemistry there, although I will remain open-minded, because this is the first time they've interacted onscreen, so maybe it will improve. It's just kind of annoying, because I do really like the Barry/Joe/Iris family dynamic a lot, and if he's supposed to become part of it, I really need him to seem like he fits.

 

The Jay is Zoom thing is a near redo of Harrison Wells last year, imo. They can't do this a third time, so I really hope they're already figuring out how they can not do do another false identity trick next season.

[Actionmage]

My question: Why does everyone solemnly promise to never tell secrets on this show? The secrets get out sooner or later and the reasons for keeping them are thin at best. Harrison, hon, E1 Joe will totally act different from E2 Joe...because he is still alive. Also, not a lounge singer currently. Caitlin currently isn't an active meta. Sure, she could develop powers, but unless everyone decides to stop caring for her and she them, our Caitlin will work to not be a murderer. ( At least Barry didn't say who killed Joe, unless I missed that part. I think he skated by with "metas" who were looking for breechers/Barry.)

 

I did like how King Shark looked. Yes, he was bigger, but if we are to believe the growth thing the E1 widow said, then that could still be in play. When he practically gulped those folks in one chomp, I gasped outloud!  The CG guys and gals did good with the long, lingering action shot at the start of King Shark chasing Barry in the water.

 

I get Wally's frustration and anger in this episode. St. Barry was stuck in his guilt and frustration over Jay, and possibly seeing how things stemmed from his going back in time. That's heavy. But the cup game and Wally's paper were in his safe place, a place of relative security. Barry seemed unable to rejoice in the bittersweet fact that his Joe was alive. Instead of mopiness, maybe Barry should have been staring at Joe with a mix of emotions? Also, Iris? Barry saw that his childhood dream was not such an impossibility. Iris seemed intrigued by the news. Surprised, but not put off, imo.  But Wally gets moody, humorless, fix-the-problem Barry.  Wally gets understandably upset and leaves. Or tries to leave because a ginormous talking shark-man is looking for The Flash and St. Barry disappears. Then his family is nbd about this fresh insanity and sticking up for the nowhere-to-be-found Barry. Again, I can't totally fault Wally. It would strike me as weird as well. Joe's explanation was nice, but it had a touch of 'kid had a rough life.' I appreciated Joe taking Barry's 'I'm  not perfect' to heart, but with Wally out of the loop, it makes the scenes lop-sided again, only insert Wally for Iris. ( I would hope that Iris would lobby for Wally to know after King Shark, but we'll see.)

 

Dear Cisco (again):  just to reiterate, let Caitlin grieve.  It's cool.  No pun intended.

 

YES! Thank you. Second presumed death in six months or so. Give her some freaking time, doof.

 

And to the poster who asked, I believe E2 Linda, aka Dr. Light, is still on our Earth. Nothing was stated, afaik, about her finding a breech before the science footballs where detonated, so we have two Lindas, minimum. That really should be an episode- doubles!!

 

Barry's Tears

 

needs to be someone's band's name.

 

If we can get Lyla popping up all over the DCTVU, then bring. it. on! Lyla is awesome and I would love to see her face off against Gen. Eiling, unless he's dead and I forgot.

[Artsda]

I'm so confused at the amount of Jay's now. 

 

Laughed out loud at Joe wondering if he had Sharknado insurance. 

 

Liked seeing Dig and Barry interact and seeing King Shark again. Good episode.

[venusnv80]

This was a WACK episode following the Earth 2 saga. The reactions to Earth 2 were kind of tacked on.

[Lady Calypso]

Excellent episode, in my opinion. We got a lot of really good moments. We had Caitlin/Cisco moments, scenes that I have been waiting for since the end of last season. We had Barry apologize for his mistakes with going back in time, an issue we've all mentioned on here, and even though he had his pep talks, he got to serve a speech of his own. I honestly should be more annoyed that Barry cries every other episode and needs pep talks every episode. But....boy's a damn good crier, and it makes me feel for him almost every single time. 

 

I also had my own issues with Cisco's attitude. I think it's more that he knows he was also a villain in Earth-2, has the exact same powers as Reverb, and cared more about Caitlin becoming evil, all because she was grieving. Now, I do hope there isn't some sort of accident in the finale that gives Caitlin powers because the anvils were being dropped, with her saying she doesn't have metapowers and she could NEVER EVER go evil. Or, if she does get those powers, she uses them for good and doesn't falter to the evil side. But I just liked how they got to actually talk, and Caitlin actually got to voice her feelings. 

 

Also, totally didn't mind Barry and Cisco talking about Earth-2. Both were acting too weird to keep it hidden. 

 

I didn't mind Wally, because I figured he would have tension with the prodigal son. I laughed when Joe told Wally that Barry wasn't favoured over either of them, though. Like...dude, yeah he kind of is. I was actually happy for the tension, because Barry got to tell Joe (and Iris) to stop putting him on a pedestal. Also, I have to admit, when Wally was describing his project or whatever, I thought it was somehow going to be incorporated into fighting Zoom. 

 

King Shark? Much better than his initial appearance. He was a lot more frightening this time around. Also, seeing Dig and Lyla on their own was great. Hearing about Felicity and Oliver was nice as well, although it sucks that Barry hasn't been able to go to Star City to check on Felicity, nor has Felicity called him. I'm guessing they haven't talked since before she got paralyzed. When they both have time, I'm hoping they can find a way to catch up. 

 

Jay is Zoom. Or Hunter Zolomon is Zoom. Blah, I was hoping for more of a twist. I think we all figured it would either be Henry-2 or Jay somehow, just like we figured it was probably Wells as RF last season. But I guess it could have only been a handful of choices, if they wanted to keep the connection within the main characters. 

 

All in all, probably one of my favourite episodes this season. I think it's because everyone got a little bit of a voice. Even Iris and Caitlin were written better. Ok, granted Iris didn't get all that much to do, but she got to at least react to hearing about herself from Earth-2. 

[KirkB]

Jay being Zoom doesn't surprise me, though to be honest until a couple of weeks ago he wasn't high on my list. I can't remember exactly what it was that made me start to suspect him but congrats to anyone who figured it out early on. If Jay, the one who has been on Earth 1 all this time, is from Earth 2 does that mean Jay/Zoom is from one of the other Earths? What then is he doing on Earth 2?

 

King Shark was actually pretty interesting. Maybe he'll be what Barry and the gang have to turn for help when Grodd comes back, 'cause you know he's going to be pissed, and that would be a fight to see.

 

Wally continues not to impress me. I don't dislike the character or anything, but for some reason I find the actor dull.

 

I think Cisco should back off a little. Caitlin knows what's best for herself.

[thuganomics85]

How I imagine David Ramsey when he got the script:

"Sweet!  They want me on another episode of The Flash!"

(reads script)

"And.... I'm mainly around to give another angsty superhero a pep talk.  That's just great.  Well, at least Cisco might whip me up a new helmet soon!"

 

For a episode that focused heavily on a big-ass, pant-wearing man-shark, this episode was surprisingly very moody, serious, and overdramatic.  Most of it was well acted at least, but I got of got tired of it.  I am glad that Barry finally admitted how badly he fucked things up by going back into time and I certainly understand why he still feels the effects of Earth 2 Joe's death, but I feel like I've seen Barry's cry face more then I've seen his smile, which is kind of depressing.  I get it, show.  You are milking Grant Gustin's ability to cry on cue for all of it's worth.  But lets move on, please.

 

Cisco freaking out over Caitlin possibly turning into Killer Frost made no damn sense to me.  I've given her shit this season, but honestly, she did lose a husband (of five minutes) and a boyfriend this year, so it isn't that surprising she would be cold.  For a second, I was thinking this was heading to him admitting he was truly fearful of becoming like his Earth 2 version, but it never came up.  So, it just makes the whole thing dumb and him a hypocrite.  Whatever, lets move past this.  Well, except I want a scene where Harry finds out both Barry and Cisco couldn't keep the damn secret and he's just like "I hate both of you."

 

Meanwhile, Barry vs. Wally comes to ahead.  I don't care.  Barry does get coddled and favored, and it is annoying.  But Wally is just as obnoxious and I suspect he doesn't think his shit stinks either, so neither one really comes out looking good here.  Not likely how they've been handling Wally so far.

 

But, hey, we finally find out who Zoom is.  And it's.... Jay?!  Or at least has his face.  I have no clue which version of him it is, but I'm certainly intrigued.  And I thought Teddy Sears did much better with that one mere line, compared to most of the stuff he did with Boring Jay.  I think he'll have more fun with this role.

[AudienceofOne]

Yes, Barry's Tears made another guest appearance, but on the other hand, I liked that he acknowledged his role in the events of the past past season.

Well, Grant Gustin totally fucking slayed me but then I'm planning on having his babies at this stage so maybe that's not a surprise. And it was just nice to see him acknowledging all the ways he's fucked up. Because, boy, has he fucked up. Taking responsibility for his actions was what sold this episode for me, despite the stupid shark man and the shoehorned Jaws references.

[TwistedandBored]

I knew it and even said it on here. So, I am guessing our Jay is Zoom or Earth 2/3 Jay?

 

“What’s funny is we showed that Jay’s doppelganger was Hunter Zolomon, and we assumed the comic book fans would say, ‘A-ha’ right away. ‘Jay must be Zoom.’ But I think that, like Barry and the team, they didn’t want to or just couldn’t believe it.”

 

 

I think that is really when I knew a version of Jay would be Zoom. Thanks soo much for spoiling it for us. 

 

 

Also, Killer Frost is soo happening. So is cop Iris. Foreshadowing every where in tonight's episode. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by TwistedandBored

[zannej]

On one hand, I get Cisco being worried about Caitlin and he did seem to be wanting to support her. She never struck me as the most emotionally stable person and Cisco was worried she would snap. Cisco at least has his parents and brother in his life so he has a support system. They seemed to indicate that Caitlin doesn't have that. On the other hand, it had to have been annoying Caitlin to have Cisco hovering and mother-henning so much. It still had potential for something good, but I felt it was ruined by the acting. I know Danielle was trying, but she does this thing where she opens her eyes way too wide and makes inappropriate and exaggerated facial expressions that just ruin it for me. The bit where she tried to scare Cisco was somewhat amusing, but still something was off about it.

 

So, Harry and Jesse are sleeping on crappy bunks in some dark room somewhere? STAR Labs is HUGE! It has hundreds of rooms. Would it be so hard to convert a couple of rooms into bedrooms and get some decent beds? If Harry is worried about being too far from her, maybe they could get adjoining rooms or share a room for awhile and then move in to separate spaces.

 

I admit that I was disappointed at the thought of them reopening the portal and having Jesse and Harry go back to Earth 2. I want them to stay. Although, it would suck to be Harry because he can't go out in public on Earth1. If they do send them back, I hope they find a way to keep one portal open so they can visit.

 

I was surprised to see that Zoom looked like Jay under the mask. Hunter Zolomon was my 2nd choice for Zoom's identity, so it wasn't too much of a surprise. I'm guessing the "dead" Jay was a clone and the man in the mask is the real Jay.

 

I really liked seeing Diggle and Lyla in this. I could have done without the drama with Wally. I could relate to Barry on trying to help someone and having them get pissy. I called major Bullshit on Joe saying he didn't favor Barry over anyone. Poor Iris.

[benteen]

I knew it and even said it on here. So, I am guessing our Jay is Zoom or Earth 2/3 Jay?

 

 

I think that is really when I knew a version of Jay would be Zoom. Thanks soo much for spoiling it for us. 

 

 

Also, Killer Frost is soo happening. So is cop Iris. Foreshadowing every where in tonight's episode. 

 

I very much want to see Killer Frost and Cop Iris on the show.  I thought both actresses really thrived with that material.

 

LOL on Henry and Jesse being stuck with cots in a dark lab.  I could totally understand Jesse getting all teenage girl over that.

[KirkB]

Harry might want to reconsider that, since villains can just walk into STAR Labs any time they want. The next time he's out in the field with Barry if some villain decides to pay them a visit and finds Jesse....

Edited February 24, 2016 by KirkB

[Primetimer]

It's a big one!

Read the story

[DearEvette]

I very much want to see Killer Frost and Cop Iris on the show.  I thought both actresses really thrived with that material.

 

Yes.  Their Earth-2 counterparts were so refreshing.  The material given these two really suffers by comparison.

 

I really liked seeing Diggle and Lyla in this. I could have done without the drama with Wally. I could relate to Barry on trying to help someone and having them get pissy. I called major Bullshit on Joe saying he didn't favor Barry over anyone. Poor Iris.

 

Man, but how many times did Diggle throw Amanda Waller under the bus?  I get it Arrow-verse she is expendable to you, but that was cold.

 

And I think Joe favoring Barry over Iris is one of those things where the parent gives much more time and attention to the needier child.  Iris could have easily resented Barry but I think she mirrored Joe there.

 

Well, Grant Gustin totally fucking slayed me but then I'm planning on having his babies at this stage so maybe that's not a surprise. And it was just nice to see him acknowledging all the ways he's fucked up. Because, boy, has he fucked up. Taking responsibility for his actions was what sold this episode for me, despite the stupid shark man and the shoehorned Jaws references.

 

Man, yes.  That scene got me in the feels.

 

I also loved Iris and Joe calmly cleaning their house after the Shark-in-Pants attack.  Ain't no thang!  Wally's face, tho.  LOL. 

[mtlchick]

 

I'm guessing they haven't talked since before she got paralyzed. When they both have time, I'm hoping they can find a way to catch up.

Considering the flash forward we have on Arrow at the graveyard, that is bound to happen.

[Gregg247]

Barry: "I don't think Wally likes me very much.  We spent the entire evening together and he never asked me what was bothering me, or told me that I was special and could do anything if I set my mind to it.  I just don't understand that guy!"

 

Joe and Iris (in unison): "Don't worry, Barry.  He'll come around."

[zannej]

Oh, I can get Joe catering to Barry because he was the more needy child, but he treated Barry as more of an adult than he treated Iris-- and Iris was the one who was behaving more like an adult. But, a lot of the times, parents just don't see how they are behaving. They want to protect their children. At least Iris is cool enough not to let it bug her too much.

 

As for the review, it was amusing-- but I didn't think Jesse came off as all that whiny. There was an interview with Violett Beane who indicated that Jesse is only about 17-- so she's a teenager. And it's understandable that she would be upset. Especially with having to sleep on a lousy prison-type bed a few feet from her father. Of course, it's a huge step up from being in a cage and not being able to bathe. I would think Jesse would be wanting to spend a lot of time in the shower or bathtub after that ordeal.

 

I admit that I was slightly disappointed that there was no physical affection between the Wells family members in this one. I guess the hugs were more because they had been apart for so long. Or maybe Jesse is already wanting a little space.

 

I could understand why Barry was moping. I could also understand why Wally was a little offended-- maybe thinking the moping was because of him or something. But Wally getting upset when Barry was trying to help didn't make much sense to me. Ok, well, I know people get like that, but I wish it hadn't been like that.

[TobinAlbers]

These Flash writers and producers are sneaky. Think you're getting a meta of a the week episode and they drop some heavy processing by Barry and a whopper of a mythology reveal in the closing tag. When they showed Zoom carrying Jay I went 'Oh, yeah that happened at the top of the hour...what HAVE they been up to?'

 

I can see how they're planting Jesse and Wally getting together- both have jealousy issues over Barry regarding their dads. They made a point of showing Jesse rolling her eyes as Well's seemed to be more in sync with Barry's drama rather than Jesse's and also was riffing with Cisco in an easy banter of respected science geekery. She craves his looking at her as a worthy protege and feels she's not getting it and yeah, he's ignoring her feelings about being trapped on a world that isn't her own. Notice how she perked up when Barry announced they were going back to Earth 2. On one hand I get it, missing your home, but on the other, girl you found out that alternate Earth's exist, you've been able to go to one, be a science geek and explore the hell out of it- even if it's via computer in Star Labs. Cisco and Barry geeking out over their E2 jaunt while on a mission is a lot more adorable in retrospect.

 

Wally is also suffering from being supplanted by Barry with Joe, but here's the thing, Wally, your mother was the one who did that. I get he can't forever be angry at her for that especially since she's dead, but he's now transferring his anger from Joe to Barry and that's still not fair. Did love his geeking out of his turbine engine and his 'busted through your house like the Kool Aid man' had me laughing so hard because it was just so perfect a thing for a guy his age to say and so apt for the situation.

 

The reason Barry's confession scene with Iris and Joe hit me really hard was his final admission/realization that he didn't just cause deaths in his own world by going back in time and causing the portal openings, he is absolutely CRUSHED that he caused not only the death of Joe in E2 but he feels he left an entire world to Zoom's threat and it kills him. Yes, he's taking on the weight of two worlds on his shoulders now,  but I just loved that he was seeing the really big picture and is aware of a responsibility to protect everyone that he can-even those people in other worlds. We're talking Superman levels of stepping up.

 

While Diggle had to do his standard superhero pep talk speech, I like the vibe Diggle and Barry have of having a friendship of their own.  I mean Barry did help save Lyla whens he was injured by Boomerang so the Diggs probably do have a soft spot for him. Not sure I buy Felicity ignoring Barry's calls. I get the woman is busy but uh...Barry is a close friend. And he also had his back broken recently and had to recover from that physical and mental trauma. He's been where she's been and while he has powers that allowed him to heal and she doesn't so she's still in that chair so she's continually dealing with it, I just can't see them not connecting.

 

Barry scoffing at Diggle and Lyla coming to warn him about King Shark was great. GG had the look on his face like 'I fought Zoom twice. I ain't afraid of this damn shark.'

 

Given that they're now trying to avoid talking about other worlds, I wonder if when Barry speeds to the graveside to be with Oliver that it isn't Zoom he was busy with but perhaps he just returned from his world hop to National City.

 

Edit to add: Who'd have thought that this season is basically a PSA on speed (force) addiction?

This is Jay....(dorky Jay) this is Jay on speed force....(enter Zoom) any questions?

Edited February 24, 2016 by TobinAlbers

[roomtorome]

So, Wally is likely a genius of some sort?  Wouldn't be surprised.  Those scenes with Barry were painful but kind of realistic given their respective places in the home and how Barry was treating Wally - but, I did like Wally's reaction to the casual cleaning up of the house after a giant talking shark smashed through the roof - 

 

Whenever I watch, I am reminded of how much I dislike Arrow in comparison - well, in comparison to anything.  I've taken Arrow off the DVR - talk about a mopey "hero" - I just wish they had cast an actor with even a modicum of charisma for the role of Arrow - And, the flashbacks on that show?  Ugh.

 

I like the Flash cast - a lot.  I would love more screen time for Tom Cavanagh - I have fond memories of "Ed" - which I loved.  His role this year feels so underused - to me....

[Cekrypton1]

I have to assume at this point that "Zoom" is actually Jay's incarnated Speed Force, that somehow his messing with velocity-7 separated the Speed Force from him and gave it life. Hence the name "Zoom."

Harry is just a great character, he says typing the obvious.

[benteen]

I will say, I do love the way they did the voiceover in the beginning and the montage showing how much of a daze they were after what happened to Jay.  I thought that was really well done.

[Adira]

 

“What’s funny is we showed that Jay’s doppelganger was Hunter Zolomon, and we assumed the comic book fans would say, ‘A-ha’ right away. ‘Jay must be Zoom.’ But I think that, like Barry and the team, they didn’t want to or just couldn’t believe it.”

I don't understand what they are saying here.  Are they saying that Hunter Zolomon is Zoom?  Or just that one of the many infinite versions of Jay are Zoom?