Justice League (2017)

[johntfs]

I liked it pretty well and so did the audience I was with.  There was some actual applause in the theater at the end.  Nothing really stood out as bad.  The worst was mostly mediocre (Steppenwolf) or just puzzling (were we supposed to know/recognize the Russian family?  Because otherwise they spent a bunch of scenes on those particular people).

[MarkHB]

I saw it last night and really enjoyed it, as did my two early-teen nieces. I was wondering about the Russian family, too, but since they were just labeled as "Russian Girl," etc. in the credits I guess they were just there to be scared and eventually rescued. 

While it doesn't try to be as multi-layered and symbolic as BvS, and I'm sure there will be a bunch of additional scenes in the Blu-ray (even "shall we?" got cut), I found it to be a straightforward action movie and a lot of fun.

I do wish, though, that Elfman had used Zimmer's Superman music in the cornfield scene.

[revbfc]

I did like that Russian family.  They made it very clear that that these were people who had been discarded by the world, and lived in a radioactive shithole because of that.  You know who did care?  The Justice League (who have learned from previous invasions how important it is to save as many lives as possible, and were lucky to have a battle in a less populated area).

I’ll concede that Steppenwolf was a boilerplate baddie.  I’d “whatabout” with a comparison to boring Marvel villains, but we all know DC can do (and has done) better with their villains.  Lex & Deadshot on the yacht are proof of that.

Edited November 17, 2017 by revbfc

[scarynikki12]

I enjoyed it.  It's a good action movie and succeeds in setting up solos for Barry, Arthur, and Victor without being unnecessary.  I know that Aquaman is the only one of the three that looks to be released any time soon but I hope that WB gets its ass in gear on the other two.  It also sets the stage for changing actors for Batman (assuming the rumors of Affleck losing interest are true and not just random spec) since Bruce's body is having a tough time.  Just pop him in a Lazarus Pit and he comes out younger and with a different face.  I thought the way they brought back Clark was well done and didn't feel superfluous like I was concerned.  Lois being the big gun makes way more sense than "your mom's name is Martha too???" from BvS.  Diana is still amazing and I loved returning to Themyscira.  Steppenwolf didn't inspire anything other than wishing for practical effects but it could have been way worse.

I'm glad DC finally caved and did two credit scenes.  Who cares if Marvel does them too?  They're fun and a better way of setting up future movie plots without taking over the current story.  Plus Flash vs Supes to see who's fast was delightful.

[revbfc]

As much as I really want new Flash, Aquaman and other films, I really want a second Justice League movie STAT.

Give me that Legion of Doom YESTERDAY!!!!

[dttruman]

13 hours ago, johntfs said:

I liked it pretty well and so did the audience I was with.  There was some actual applause in the theater at the end.  Nothing really stood out as bad.  The worst was mostly mediocre (Steppenwolf) or just puzzling (were we supposed to know/recognize the Russian family?  Because otherwise they spent a bunch of scenes on those particular people).

Yeah, the villain Steppenwolf reminds me of the movie "Beowulf" animation from 2007. It was the significance of the Russian family I couldn't quite figure out, if I was nitpicking. Overall I thought it was a good solid superhero movie for both young and old and male and female.

[ApathyMonger]

Just back from this, and I did not like it. Not awful, but not very good at all, and very disappointing after Wonder Woman.

The performances are mostly good, and there's a few fun moments, but it's a mess.

There were a few groups of young (under 12) boys in my screening, and they were all super-excited before the movie started, but clearly got bored and started talking amongst themselves and walking around by the halfway point.

A whole bunch of kids got up and left halfway through, which I've definitely never seen in a superhero movie before.

Random thoughts:

• Pretty much every line from Flash and Alfred was supposed to be a laugh line, but I'd say there was at most a 5% success rate in my screening. A few chuckles occasionally, but almost every Flash one-liner fell completely flat.
• Almost every scene in the first half of the movie felt disconnected from the scene before it. It felt like it was trying to be a half-dozen different movies.
  Spoiler

   

  • Cyborg's powers make no sense, and he only seemed to not be able to control them fully when the plot needed him to.
  • The plan to resurrect Superman is nonsense, and makes all the characters in favour of it look like morons.
  • Good job letting Steppenwolf just take that third Motherbox from you, idiots.
  • Steppenwolf is the least interesting villain in a superhero movie ever, both in terms of "personality" and in design.
  • Hey, Amber Heard, if you know this whole Steppenwolf thing is so important, maybe you should go help Aquaman with it?
  • It wasn't too long at least.

   

   

That said, I'm still interested in seeing more of these characters.

Edited November 17, 2017 by ApathyMonger

[AimingforYoko]

16 hours ago, johntfs said:

Nothing really stood out as bad. 

Only one thing really bothered me:

Hey Bruce, you know what is probably a lot cheaper than buying a bank? PAYING OFF THE DAMN MORTGAGE! You know, so Mrs. Kent wouldn't have had to move out in the first place. You remember her, nice lady, lot of spunk, had a particularly memorable first name?

[starri]

Spoiler

We don't find out that Steppenwolf's mother's name is Martha, do we?

Edited November 18, 2017 by starri

[thuganomics85]

Since it's now officially out, we don't have to hide any of the plot twists anymore, right?  If not, err, SPOILERS!!

Overall, I didn't think it as bad as the Rotten Tomatoes score made it out to be and I'll certainly put it over the dull and dreary Batman vs. Supes, and the bizarre and almost incomplete Suicide Squad, but it certainly feel short compared to Wonder Woman, and really, it just didn't feel like the event it should have been.  This was suppose to be an epic film where five (or six, really) iconic comic book characters team up to save the world, but instead it was just a character I love teaming up with a character I kind of care about but not really, teaming up with a character that died, but obviously didn't, teaming up with three new dudes I barely care about, to face off against one of the most underwhelming villains of all time.  Yay?

There definitely was some tonal shift going on here as well that made things awkward and head-scratching, and I'm probably going to lay the majority of the blame on Joss Whedon, because while Zack Snyder has his own issues, the few moments I really did enjoy I suspect where him like Resurrected Zombie Clark vs. the gang (the scene when his eyes shift during Flash's slow-mo run was amazing) or Diana's big (if random) fight against the terrorist (led by Roose Bolton of all people dressed like Reddington from The Blacklist for some reason.)  But all the stuff with Whedon's forced quips and whatnot failed more then they landed.  For every moment that did work (Aquaman sitting on the Lasso of Truth), more didn't (I guess we're still suppose to find the whole "guy accidentally falls onto of a hot woman and freaks out" trope funny, judging from that silly Barry/Diana scene.)  Of course, a lot of it depends on the actors, where the likes Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa where able to make it work, while any "funny" moment with Bruce were a dud thanks to Ben Affleck's  one fourth of an assed delivery.

I wasn't too bothered by the suddenly scantily-claded Amazons, because after 300, I kind of think Snyder just generally has a weird thing for warriors going into battle with only their pecs and abs to protect them, but I definitely noticed the differences with the way they shot Wonder Woman.  Hey, Gal Gadot truly is one stunning woman, but Patty Jenkins was able to show off her beauty in a way that wasn't this blatantly gratuitous, while Snyder (and Whedon?) definitely went with the "classic" pan the body shots and practically attach the camera to her ass.  And I know there will be some "But they showed Jason Moma and Henry Cavill shirtless for no reason too!" excuse, and I certainly agree that was for eye-candy too, but unlike Gadot, the camera didn't just suddenly jump right in front of their chests or arms.  While I'm sure she was a gamer during those moments, I like to believe Gal was secretly rolling her eyes and counting the days until she can work with Patty again.

The acting was mainly really good at least.  Jason and Ezra seemed to be having a lot of fun, Ray Fisher was a pleasant surprise, and Gal was as charismatic and captivating as always (although I did notice a few awkward line deliveries.  Not sure if it was the writing or if Snyder/Whedon weren't able to direct her in a way to make-up for her weaknesses.)  Jeremy Irons was great, if anyone has a shot at competing with Gary Oldman as my favorite Gordon it is J.K. Simmons (although I still wish he could remain as J. Jonah Jameson in Spiderman), and Amy Adams continues to be the perfect Lois.

But Affleck, man!  I actually enjoyed him in Bats vs. Supes, but I found him pretty bad here.  He seemed bored 90% of the time and even randomly started doing  Christian Bale-like raspy voices for some reason.  Most of his interactions with the others were duds, which sucks, since there was potential there with Bruce and Barry.  Only times he had any kind of spark in him was opposite of Gal.  On the flip side, after being less the impressed with him in his last film, Henry Cavill was actually charming and close to what Superman is actually suppose to be.

Dear Marvel villains: I take back all the criticism I ever gave y'all, because Steppenwolf made you look like Heath Ledger's Joker.  Really can't believe they went with this dude to be the guy that causes the heroes to band together.  He didn't come off like a main villain at all, but more like a early RPG boss, that you have to take out before you are halfway through the game.  Even the usually reliable Ciran Hinds couldn't make it work.

I wanted to love the final teaser, but since I still find Jesse Eisenberg ridiculous as Lex, that was a no go.

Yikes!  After typing all of this, I realized it sounds very negative and, again, I actually didn't hate it and even enjoyed a good portion of it.  But I guess I just feel like there potential for these films to be even better, but they keep falling short (with the possible exception of Wonder Woman.)  Of course, if they continue to print money like they do now, there really isn't any motivation for WB to change anything.

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

while Zack Snyder has his own issues, the few moments I really did enjoy I suspect where him like Resurrected Zombie Clark vs. the gang (the scene when his eyes shift during Flash's slow-mo run was amazing)

Henry Cavill was actually charming and close to what Superman is actually suppose to be.

Clark picking up on Flash's slow-mo and Barry's reaction felt more like Whedon to me, and I know that scene was one where he was directing the reshoots.  But I could see it being either one.

Henry was having way more fun this time around and I was ready to swoon when he started smiling.  Maybe this will greenlight Man of Steel 2?

[Mierin]

2 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Only one thing really bothered me:

Hey Bruce, you know what is probably a lot cheaper than buying a bank? PAYING OFF THE DAMN MORTGAGE! You know, so Mrs. Kent wouldn't have had to move out in the first place. You remember her, nice lady, lot of spunk, had a particularly memorable first name?

I had the same thought - wouldn't it have been easier to just buy the house and give it to Martha rather than buy the bank?  It didn't make much sense to me.

Overall, I did enjoy the movie.  Ezra Millar was great as the Flash and WW was great, as always. 

I found Henry Cavill's CGI'd away mustache to be distracting though.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Only one thing really bothered me:

Hey Bruce, you know what is probably a lot cheaper than buying a bank? PAYING OFF THE DAMN MORTGAGE! You know, so Mrs. Kent wouldn't have had to move out in the first place. You remember her, nice lady, lot of spunk, had a particularly memorable first name?

I didn't really mind that because it worked in terms of how Bruce/Batman tends to think.  Unless you're pretty directly relevant to a situation he's dealing with as Batman, he kind of doesn't give much of a shit about you.  Will Bruce as Batman fight through 30 guys to save Martha?  Sure.  Will he keep an eye on her after Clark's death to make sure she's paying her bills okay?  Not really.  Now, granted that once her plight is brought to his attention, he'll make extravagant amends by purchasing the entire damn bank.  It's one of the more interesting contradictions with this version of Batman that he cares so much about saving the world, but not all that much about the individual people in it.  Hell, this is one of the only times I've seen Batman effectively "let" a criminal go (the guy was still tied up) because he had other shit to deal with.

[darkestboy]

I enjoyed it. It wasn't perfect and you could easily tell what was Snyder and what was Whedon and I do think both styles kind of worked in the movie's favour, even if all the humour didn't land so well.

Each of the heroes got the right amount of screen time. No one felt underused or overused but the highlights for me were Wonder Woman, The Flash and Superman. Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg were on fine form though.

Didn't really find Steppenwolf that engaging as a villain but he worked okay enough. Parademons were better utilised though than expected them to be.

Nice enough scenes with Lois, Martha, Silas, Mera, Gordon, Alfred, Henry and Hippolyta and so on. All of them served their purposes for the movie while setting up some other ones, Mera in particular.

The post credit scenes were pretty good - the first one fun, the second one pure set up for a sequel/other movies but all of them worked though.

Liked a lot of the music including the Batman 89 theme as well, 8/10

[Bruinsfan]

Overall I had a good time watching it. The story wasn't groundbreaking or anything, but it mostly held together, and the majority of the actors elevated the material and made me care about their characters. I could have done with a little less nerfing of Wonder Woman in the name of teamwork—she's held her own in solo combat with both Doomsday and Ares, I don't think Steppenwolf should have been an unreasonable challenge that she couldn't handle. (Likewise, though I'm glad to have Superman back, I know which of the two would make me wet myself if I were an end boss super-villain; getting hacked to pieces by a sword in the hands of a demigoddess is a lot scarier than being punched in the nose really hard!)

 

22 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

For every moment that did work (Aquaman sitting on the Lasso of Truth), more didn't (I guess we're still suppose to find the whole "guy accidentally falls onto of a hot woman and freaks out" trope funny, judging from that silly Barry/Diana scene.)  Of course, a lot of it depends on the actors, where the likes Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa where able to make it work, while any "funny" moment with Bruce were a dud thanks to Ben Affleck's  one fourth of an assed delivery.

At least the Flash/Wonder Woman moment was literally blink-and-you'll-miss-it, so I didn't have time to get very angry over it. But yeah, Affleck was so flat in most of his scenes Elfman should have scored them with "Behind Blue Eyes" instead of the Batman theme.

 

But Affleck, man!  I actually enjoyed him in Bats vs. Supes, but I found him pretty bad here.  He seemed bored 90% of the time and even randomly started doing  Christian Bale-like raspy voices for some reason.  Most of his interactions with the others were duds, which sucks, since there was potential there with Bruce and Barry.  Only times he had any kind of spark in him was opposite of Gal.  On the flip side, after being less the impressed with him in his last film, Henry Cavill was actually charming and close to what Superman is actually suppose to be.

It helped that they let him get more than two lines out at a time before a cut to a dream sequence or an explosion! Based on interviews I've seen Henry gets Superman on a fundamental level, and has charisma to burn if they just let him use complete sentences and facial expressions other than an angry glare.

[TigerLynx]

I liked it.  It wasn't as good as Wonder Woman, but it was okay.  I loved the Amazons and all of Wonder Woman's scenes.  I wish we had had more scenes of the Amazons.

Favorite lines:

Wonder Women, "I work with children."

The Flash to Bruce, "You know if she kills you, we will all cover for her."

Aquaman, "We're all gonna die.  Superman's a no show, you keep tripping over your own feet and mine, you have no real superpowers, you may be working for the enemy, and you're gorgeous."  The lasso making Aquaman say what he really felt was funny.

Diana as the exasperated older sister to these guys works for me.

Jason sure is good at playing guys from Atlantis.  Also, thought it was amusing that Diane Lane is in a movie that has characters named Diana and Lois Lane.

Edited November 19, 2017 by TigerLynx

[Rina99]

23 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

There definitely was some tonal shift going on here as well that made things awkward and head-scratching, and I'm probably going to lay the majority of the blame on Joss Whedon, because while Zack Snyder has his own issues, the few moments I really did enjoy I suspect where him like Resurrected Zombie Clark vs. the gang (the scene when his eyes shift during Flash's slow-mo run was amazing) or Diana's big (if random) fight against the terrorist (led by Roose Bolton of all people dressed like Reddington from The Blacklist for some reason.)  But all the stuff with Whedon's forced quips and whatnot failed more then they landed.  For every moment that did work (Aquaman sitting on the Lasso of Truth), more didn't (I guess we're still suppose to find the whole "guy accidentally falls onto of a hot woman and freaks out" trope funny, judging from that silly Barry/Diana scene.)  Of course, a lot of it depends on the actors, where the likes Ezra Miller and Jason Momoa where able to make it work, while any "funny" moment with Bruce were a dud thanks to Ben Affleck's  one fourth of an assed delivery.

Affleck really pissed me off. It's not like he's been doing this for years, this is only his second full movie as Batman, and he's already phoning it in. As bad as Suicide Squad was, at least everyone committed and did the best they could (except Cara Delawhatever, I don't know what she was doing). 

I like Ezra Miller, but his Barry Allen irritated me most of the time he was on-screen. I did kind of like his interaction with Victor/Cyborg, so if they do end up doing a Flash movie I hope they include him. They seemed to have an actual conversation vs Barry waiting to deliver his joke. Speaking of, I feel like there was a much more interesting plot with Victor that was aborted or cut, I don't know. Nothing really came of the fact that he was built from the Mother Boxes and might be a double-agent or whatever. Gal was fine as Wonder Woman. I'm still not sure I'm sold on an Aquaman movie, Jason Momoa was just okay for me.

Once they settled on a narrative, it was better, but still not great. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Rina99

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, Rina99 said:

Affleck really pissed me off. It's not like he's been doing this for years, this is only his second full movie as Batman, and he's already phoning it in.

See, I saw that as more of an acting choice.  I think Affleck's take is that at this point Batman has been "phoning it in" for a few years now because he's tired and burned out.  There's a couple of scenes in the movie where Bruce isn't just risking death but actively inviting it because he knows he's getting too old and damaged to be Batman but has no idea how to be anything else.

[Silver Raven]

I didn't recognize Joe Manganiello as a blond.  Is there going to be a Deathstroke origin movie?

[bluvelvet]

Saw this last night. I thought it was okay. I didn’t think it was bad but I honestly didn’t find it particularly appealing. Let’s just say I wouldn’t be inclined to watch it again. 

The absolute best parts for me was anything Wonder Woman and all the scenes with the Amazons. Wish we could get an Amazons movie.  I did like Barry, but I’m used to other Barry over on The Flash so it was an interesting contrast. That Barry has friends and a social circle while this one is a loner who’s kinda tripping over himself. Actually I liked the individual characters but the overarching story just felt flat.  

Steppenwolff was meh....

Edited November 19, 2017 by bluvelvet

[Bruinsfan]

I know Ciarán Hinds did the voice work, but did anyone else think it looked like they used Stephen Moyer as the model for Steppenwolf's face? He looked strangely familiar despite the alien elements.

The flashback Amazon clothes turned out to be a non-issue for me; those scenes were so stylized and almost silhouetted that the cheesecake factor was dialed way down. (Also, 5,000 years ago? I guess they're abandoning the parallel of Greek mythology and history, which would have seen Herakles sacking the Amazons' mainland city around the 13th century BCE.)

Probably my favorite bit action-wise was the slow motion sequence when Superman's eye started tracking Flash's movement.

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

I think Affleck's take is that at this point Batman has been "phoning it in" for a few years now because he's tired and burned out.  There's a couple of scenes in the movie where Bruce isn't just risking death but actively inviting it because he knows he's getting too old and damaged to be Batman but has no idea how to be anything else.

This makes it all the more bizarre to start off with a Batman near the end of his time in the suit when WB is hoping for an extended run of DCEU movies.  Most of the truly iconic superhero portrayals have been by relative unknowns so there was no need to cast a big name like Affleck in the first place.  I think someone who hasn't really hit it big would need longer to hit the "I'm sick of this", especially since it's such a time sink with the multiple movies, constant working out to keep that superhero physique, etc.  A 30-something Batman can also be mentally drained.

[starri]

13 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Most of the truly iconic superhero portrayals have been by relative unknowns so there was no need to cast a big name like Affleck in the first place.

I don't know if that's true.  Of the Marvel guys, the only real unknowns were 2/3rds of the Chrises (that's even borderline with Pratt), Tom Holland (where yes, you absolutely need an unknown), Elisabeth Olsen, and I guess Chadwick Boseman.  Hell, if my math is right, a majority are Oscar nominees.

[Dee]

What's the definition of unknown? Because Chadwick starred in two critically acclaimed biopics before being cast as T'Challa.

[Silver Raven]

23 minutes ago, Dee said:

What's the definition of unknown? Because Chadwick starred in two critically acclaimed biopics before being cast as T'Challa.

He's also been voted the favorite US actor in China. 

https://shadowandact.com/chadwick-boseman-crowned-most-popular-u-s-actor-in-china-black-talent-does-sell-overseas

[Spartan Girl]

Well, the bad reviews let me lower my expectations..maybe that's why I'm shocked to say that I actually...kind of liked it.

Dont get me wrong, WW was a MILLION TIMES BETTER and I still hate Batfleck and Steppenwolf sucks and it was really obvious that Snyder Whedon was trying to rip off the Avengers -- but it wasn't terrible. It was better than BvS.

Happy they used the old Batman theme! Maybe they can bring back the Superman one too?

Was not expecting Superman to come back halfway through the movie (was thinking that would be a post-credits thing), but any excuse to have Henry shirtless is fine by me! Plus, he was a lot happier this time; I like him so much more when he's not brooding. Think maybe now that he's back, all those xenophobes will give him the apology he deserves? Doubt it.

Loved Supes and Flash racing each other at the end.

Big LMAO at Aquaman sitting on the lasso of truth.

If nothing else, I'm ready for The Flash and Aquaman movies. And Wonder Woman, but that goes without saying.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[SeanC]

There are individual moments that work, but boy was that haphazardly put together.  There's virtually no plot momentum, just a succession of things happening, and you can clearly see that the WB watered down whatever Snyder originally planned for this story massively.  Now, considering the tepid (at best) response to Snyder's previous film, one can understand this, but watered down Snyder isn't really a big improvement.  The WB simply left themselves too little time in the production schedule to accommodate a massive rethink of the entire project.

This even comes down to how the movie looks.  This movie was clearly conceived around a colour scheme similar to the previous Snyder films, but then they got ordered to brighten everything up, and the result is just ugly, because you can't recolour everything after the fact like that (well, you can, but you shouldn't).  Now, a brighter colour scheme would have made sense in the first place, but again, too late to make changes like that.

The decision to abandon the two-part structure Snyder envisioned also means we're stuck with Steppenwolf, a total nonentity, as the sole villain, when he was pretty obviously meant to be a herald for Darkseid in the second film (this also makes a hash of parts of Batman v. Superman, e.g., the brief Flash appearance warning Batman, Batman's visions of the future, etc.).  Also, what the hell was with that ending?  Why did he beam away (or was beamed away)?  What was keeping him away in the first place?  If the mother boxes summoned him because Superman was dead, why didn't they summon him at any point in the millennia where there was no Kryptonian on Earth before?  Why did they make Steppenwolf entirely CGI when he's just a dude in a big helmet?

Also, when viewed in relation to the two preceding Snyder films, there's a pretty huge hole in this one, namely:  any reaction from anybody that Superman is back.  Whether you thought it was well-done or not, Snyder invested a lot of time showing how the world reacted to Superman, what his life and death meant, etc.  Even the opening of JL suggests this is going to be a story point.  But then Superman comes back to life and we get no sense of how the world reacts to this.

The movie flailed at trying to explain the whole "missing century" issue that poor planning created for this version of Wonder Woman, but Gal Gadot was charming as ever.  I suspect that if not for her, the WB would just be trashing this whole DCEU and starting over after this movie.

[callie lee 29]

Ehh, I liked it. And I like Affleck as Batman. I actually liked all of the cast, even Momoa, though he seemed a little less sure-footed than the others.

One scene that cracked me up was when Flash was running along the walls of the nuclear reactor; major deja'vu from the X-Men when Quicksilver ran along the walls of the White House kitchen. I liked this version better.

[Bruinsfan]

I'd say it was a definite improvement—the basic story framework made sense, as did most characters' motivations. And there wasn't really anything in the movie that outraged me, whereas I have a laundry list about BvS that includes almost everything not involving Gal Gadot in the scene. My most negative reactions this time around were "shouldn't Wonder Woman be kicking more ass?" and "why are we seeing this token family of nameless Russians yet again?", neither of which did that much harm to my overall enjoyment.

I'd have loved to have a team movie of similar quality to Wonder Woman, but I'll settle for one that doesn't leave me angry when I leave the theater.

[methodwriter85]

14 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

The absolute best parts for me was anything Wonder Woman and all the scenes with the Amazons. Wish we could get an Amazons movie.  I did like Barry, but I’m used to other Barry over on The Flash so it was an interesting contrast. That Barry has friends and a social circle while this one is a loner who’s kinda tripping over himself.

I feel like Ezra Miller was just trying to hard to ape Holland's quippy kid shtick. I don't know, I really loved Ezra's performance in The Perks of Being A Wallflower and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them, but something about his performance here left me cold.

This was okay. I found myself struggling to stay awake at moments, but yeah, it was nice.

It was also funny to remember that at one time, Amber Heard was a hot up and comer. Now she's best known for having Johnny Deep throwing a phone at her.

It's going to be really interesting to see what happens next with this franchise.

[tennisgurl]

So, I guess my expectation were so low you could causally step over them, but I thought this was quite enjoyable. Not amazing or anything, but it was a fun ride, and it didn't actively piss me off, so its already better than half the other DCEU movies. The movie was basically the best version of what I expected it to be. Its clearly a hodgepodge of about four different movies, all spliced together to create a sort of Frankenstein film based around multiple creators and studio mandates. It isn't as epic as something like this should really be (the way The Avengers just blew my mind), but the dialogue sounded more natural then past installments, the actors were engaging, and the fight scenes were pretty cool. 

Steppenwolf was basically a cut out baddie who is a villain because he loves killing and eats fear and stuff. He works as the bad guy who gets the goo guys together and drives the plot. I mean, the dude actually dropped the "this cannot be!!!!" line! The classic villain last words! Come on dude!

I love Wonder Woman so much, and she was great here. Still more of a hardass, but you can see more of the warm hearted person from WW. That she is still mourning Steve after so many years was really heartbreaking, and I liked how she referenced that relationship more than once, and how its affected her. We didn't get as much of Cyborg, Flash, and Aquaman, and it seemed like they were all getting their own mini prequels, but they did well and I got a good feel of their personalities. I really loved Jason Momoa was especially good as new, road warrior Aquaman. I can totally see this guy getting a hook for a hand and loving it. 

Henry is a MUCH better Superman when they allow him to actually act like Superman. In Man of Steel, I saw some glimmers of his natural charm, but here he was actually allowed to be a likable and heroic bringer of hope, and it worked really well. He felt like an actual character, and not an archetype. 

There was still a bit of the old DCCU "Lets talk about how IMPORTANT we are" speechifying, but it didn't go overboard, and that helped the movie a whole lot. Really, the worst thing I can say about the movie is that its connected to some of the crappier earlier movies, and its still living in the shadow of the MCU. This was good, but not amazing, if that makes sense. But, there was no scene that made me literally groan out loud. There were no "Pa Kent gets sucked into a tornado" or "Belly dancing Mayan Goddess" and certainly no "MARTHA?!?!" moments, and I count that as a win for the franchise. 

But it was no Wonder Woman. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by tennisgurl

[phalange]

I saw it tonight and I can say it wasn't near as bad as critics said, though I did have issues with certain things. Obviously it was no Wonder Woman, and I've never seen BvS, so I can't compare it to that. I do think that the beginning was kind of choppy due to having to introduce a bunch of new characters and give them a brief backstory. Diana's intro scene was definitely the best, and the shot of her on top of the statue was pretty cool. I was able to connect with Barry and Victor as characters, but Arthur felt kind of one-dimensional, and Batfleck annoys me to no end. Superman was fine, I guess? I knew, as I think most people did, about him being revived so that wasn't a shock.

The scenes of the Amazons in their leather bikini armor annoyed me as much as I thought it would, because it's just so unnecessary, and sexist, and historically inaccurate. Seasoned warriors are not going to go into battle with clothes like that. However, I did like how the scene was filmed, with the Amazons keeping the box away from Steppenwolf while on horseback, and it was nice to see Hippolyta again. I also could have done without the scene of Barry falling on top of Diana (I see you and your skeevy ways, Whedon), and without Bruce (Bat)mansplaining to Diana how to superhero. I see they did sort of retcon the idea of Diana not getting involved in anything by having her say she helped when needed, just not in the spotlight. I'm glad, because that never fit in with what we saw at the end of Wonder Woman. 

I loved all the references and direct mentions of Steve, especially, "I knew a man who would've liked to fly that" and "They're all Steve Trevor." Bruce bringing him up specifically to provoke a reaction from Diana was an asshole move, and he's lucky she didn't throw him through the damn wall. Barry saying they'd cover for Diana if she killed him was pretty funny.

The funniest scene was honestly Clark being able to see Barry running toward him. Clark's sideeye followed by Barry's shocked expression was hilarious. I also liked when Barry seemed proud of himself for saving the Russian family in their truck, then looking over to see Clark carrying an entire building. I wonder who won the race to the coast. The final battle with Steppenwolf was fine, but it seemed like Clark was stronger than all of them combined, and like Diana's strength was downplayed a whole lot. The ending wrapped up nicely, and I liked the scene of Diana having saved the day with a group of children excited to see her. Overall, it was entertaining and most of the humor landed, so it was worth the money. 

(I still think the DCEU should be handed over to Patty Jenkins, though.)

Edited November 20, 2017 by phalange

[Proclone]

I saw it yesterday.  I was of two minds about even going to see it because I was meh on Man of Steel and Suicide Squad and never saw BVS because I heard it was so awful (I've seen snippets).  But on the other hand, I really liked Wonder Woman, so I decided to risk a matinee.  I thought it was ok.  It's not as good as Wonder Woman but it's better than the other three.  The characters are by in large fun, I liked them all.  The only ones I had any real investment in were Diana and Bruce though.

While not as bad as Suicide Squad, I thought the editing in this was really lacking.  It feels like there was another hour of this movie on the cutting room floor and they didn't do it with any finesse.  The backstory is rushed, so Steppenwolf is given a thin motivation at best.  Which I suppose I could live with, but the real crime I thought was shortchanging the impact Clark's resurrection and his recovery from it.  It should have happened earlier in the movie and been given more time to play out.  You don't have characters repeatedly warn us about how he's going to come back wrong and then only have him be "wrong" for about two minutes.  Despite the warnings, Clark didn't lose anything in death, he gained a sense of humor.   And briefly a British accent.  I thought Cavill pretty much lost the American Accent entirely in the scene in the park, especially when he was fighting with Bruce and asked him if he bled.

That brings me to, how the hell are they going to explain how Clark Kent (not Superman) came back from the dead.  I assume that there's a mechanism from the comics but they didn't touch on that in the film.  Does it matter anymore since there are a bunch of cops that know Superman's name is Clark now?  The team didn't really seem to have too many qualms about calling him Clark in front of all the cops in the park, nor did Lois and they certainly saw his reaction to her.  In that vein, Batman certainly didn't have a problem calling Alfred by name in front of a criminal either.  While not as blatant as the Clark thing, it wouldn't take the world's greatest detective to figure out who Batman is if they knew that Batman had someone helping him named Alfred and then heard that Bruce ( a millionaire who can afford all these gadgets) Wayne has a butler named Alfred.

I also thought, despite the apparently huge budget, that the CGI wasn't particularly good.  Steppenwolf looks like he's out of a video game cut scene.  And the less said about Cavill's mustache-ectomy the better.  

It's not a bad movie, it's just not a particularly good one.  I think one of the biggest problems with the DCEU is that it's more interested in the superhero than the person behind the cape.  The only Superman stories I've ever liked were more about Clark then they were about Superman (Lois and Clarke and Smallville for example).  I also think that's true of Batman.  Wonder Woman corrected that and that's why I was invested because I liked Diana not just thought Wonder Woman was cool.  This movie was a little better being about the person behind the cape than some of the others, but they're still doing things ass backwards as compared to Marvel.  Aquaman should have come out before this so we could have understood Arthur Curry and how it's growth for him to work on a team.  I don't really know the character and while he's cool I'm not really invested in him. It's probably possible to introduce these characters and give us enough info about them to be invested in one movie but not with the bare bones editing that we got in this one.  It's like DC just assumes everyone is familiar with all their characters, and while that might be sort of true it's not an excuse for not giving them characterization on screen.  I think in many ways Marvel was lucky that it's character were by in large not as popular as DC because they were forced to actually tell their audience about them and not just rely on what everyone already knows about them.

[Shannon L.]

1 hour ago, Proclone said:

I saw it yesterday.  I was of two minds about even going to see it because I was meh on Man of Steel and Suicide Squad and never saw BVS because I heard it was so awful (I've seen snippets).  But on the other hand, I really liked Wonder Woman, so I decided to risk a matinee.  I thought it was ok.  It's not as good as Wonder Woman but it's better than the other three.  The characters are by in large fun, I liked them all.  The only ones I had any real investment in were Diana and Bruce though.

~snip~

 

  This movie was a little better being about the person behind the cape than some of the others, but they're still doing things ass backwards as compared to Marvel.  Aquaman should have come out before this so we could have understood Arthur Curry and how it's growth for him to work on a team.  I don't really know the character and while he's cool I'm not really invested in him. It's probably possible to introduce these characters and give us enough info about them to be invested in one movie but not with the bare bones editing that we got in this one.  It's like DC just assumes everyone is familiar with all their characters, and while that might be sort of true it's not an excuse for not giving them characterization on screen.  I think in many ways Marvel was lucky that it's character were by in large not as popular as DC because they were forced to actually tell their audience about them and not just rely on what everyone already knows about them.

I could have written that first paragraph myself.   I thought it was better than I expected, but still not great.  That seems to be the consensus.  RE: the last one, I agree.  I told my son when we left that they should have had Aquaman's movie first.  He was a cool character and I'll probably see Aquaman when it comes out, but yeah, the timeline seems way off.  As for this movie, it felt like they could have used an extra 15 minutes or so. 

I don't know anything about these superheroes before except for these movies (that includes Marvel), so I don't know what's cannon and what's not, but someone earlier mentioned The Flash on tv vs. The Flash in this movie and I found the difference was a bit jarring.  Having him be a loner and getting into a bit of trouble was so at odds with the other version having grown up in a stable environment with Joe and Iris.  Which one is true to the comics? 

I liked that they showed Bruce as a normal human being who can not only get hurt, but that getting older will start making it worse, making it all harder. 

My favorite humorous bit was Aquaman sitting on the lasso.  I love that they didn't have him all flirty with Diana (unless I missed something), but only stating when he thought when he was forced to.  Having such a young, hot, rebel type not thinking he's God's gift to women was a nice change (although, who knows where they'll go with him in his solo movie).

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

but someone earlier mentioned The Flash on tv vs. The Flash in this movie and I found the difference was a bit jarring.  Having him be a loner and getting into a bit of trouble was so at odds with the other version having grown up in a stable environment with Joe and Iris.  Which one is true to the comics? 

I'm not that well-versed on Barry Allen's comic history--Wally West is my Jam (all due to Michael Rosenbaum's hilarious potrayal of him in the DCAU*). But what I do know is that he wasn't a KID to Superman/Batman/Aquaman. But their CONTEMPORARY. His personality, what I saw of Ezra Miller, was more like Barry's grandson, BART Allen. Or, like Holland's Peter.

DC Animated Universe: Justice League/Justice League Unlimited 2001-2005

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

I don't know anything about these superheroes before except for these movies (that includes Marvel), so I don't know what's cannon and what's not, but someone earlier mentioned The Flash on tv vs. The Flash in this movie and I found the difference was a bit jarring.  Having him be a loner and getting into a bit of trouble was so at odds with the other version having grown up in a stable environment with Joe and Iris.  Which one is true to the comics? 

Comics Barry is a contemporary of the rest of the League. Comics Barry is an optimist and probably closer in personality to TV Flash than movie Flash. Iris starts dating Barry because he's an honest dependable guy. Barry is at various times described as the heart of the League and ironically by Batman, "the man I would have become if my parents had lived." Both Batman and the Flash lose their parents at a young age. Barry goes to college to become a forensic scientist to help others and prove that his father is innocent. Bruce has PTSD and leans into his psychosis to become Batman. So Flash being a loner weirdo isn't particularly faithful to his comics depiction.

[JessePinkman]

This was less a movie than a collection of disparate scenes. It all felt very perfunctory, like the filmmakers all woke up each morning and said “Well, I guess we have to do this today.”

And when I say a collection of scenes I mean it, the reshoots were jarringly inserted into the movie. The hair, makeup, costuming, lighting and background was just so different from shot to shot in some scenes I couldn’t focus on whatever the allegedly plot was. Honestly, there were so many random shots of Gal Gadot just by herself in front of a green screen in the last third of the movies. It was weird. 

Also we can give Henry Cavill a (laughably) fake upper lip but can’t make Ben Affleck look less bloated? He looked ready to pop.

My issue with the entire DCEU or whatever they’re calling it, is that it’s built on the presumption that we know and care about these characters. Sure, we as a society have know Batman and Superman and Wonder Woman for 75+ years but not these incarnations, stop taking that for granted. The world is mourning Superman and has fallen into disarray after his death? Well in this universe they knew him for a year and half of them thought he was evil. 

Also, Diana calling him Kal-El and looking at him reverently? You knew him for 5 minutes 6 months ago. You didn’t even introduce yourself and then he died. It’s bullshit that they all care about Superman this much.

Diana’s “I work with children” was such forced lightheartedness. You barely know these people and Cyborg was brooding half the movie and Superman just came back! You don’t know them!

Random bits:

I’ll never get over Flash’s dorky ass running. What was that?

Steppenwolf was a bad, lazy villain. Don’t do that again.

Wasn’t Zod’s plan in MOS to terraform the earth to bring back Krypton? How are we already repeating plot points?

Those alien flowers were stupid. The Russian family was stupid.

Bruce grew a full beard in two days after catching that mugger? Also he just let that dude go? That’s so un-Batman like.

All that said it wasn’t actively terrible, just there. Lifeless and kind of sad but not deeply offensive so they’re getting closer to okay?

[Shannon L.]

4 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

Also we can give Henry Cavill a (laughably) fake upper lip but can’t make Ben Affleck look less bloated? He looked ready to pop.

I wonder if they didn't want to.  They were putting some emphasis on the fact that he wasn't as young as he used to be and that it was catching up to him, so maybe they were willing to allow Ben to not work quite as hard at his shape for this one?  I know what a bitch it is for women to stay thin and fit over the age of 40, but I'm not sure if it's the same for men and getting/keeping up that superhero form (which from what I understand is the worst part of getting into character for a lot of them).

4 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

I’ll never get over Flash’s dorky ass running. What was that?

Yes!  I forgot about that.  He had the weirdest gait while running.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Shannon L.

[JessePinkman]

57 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

I wonder if they didn't want to.  They were putting some emphasis on the fact that he wasn't as young as he used to be and that it was catching up to him, so maybe they were willing to allow Ben to not work quite as hard at his shape for this one?  I know what a bitch it is for women to stay thin and fit over the age of 40, but I'm not sure if it's the same for men and getting/keeping up that superhero form (which from what I understand is the worst part of getting into character for a lot of them).

I was thinking more about how obvious the reshoots were. He went from looking slim to looking less than slim and kind of waxy scene to scene, sometimes within the same scene like the one on the beach with Aquaman or in the batcave hangar with WW.

[Shannon L.]

18 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

I was thinking more about how obvious the reshoots were. He went from looking slim to looking less than slim and kind of waxy scene to scene, sometimes within the same scene like the one on the beach with Aquaman or in the batcave hangar with WW.

Ah, got it.  I'm sure my husband will want to see this when it comes out on dvd, so I'll have to pay more attention to those kinds of details. 

[Spartan Girl]

I did like the podcast footage of Superman by those excited kids in the beginning of the movie.  That was cute, if only to see some people that actually weren't suspicious and unafraid of Superman.  Henry Cavill was more like Christopher Reeve's Superman in that moment, lightheartedly humoring the kids, smiling and laughing as he answered their questions...

*sniffle* I miss Christopher Reeve.

I have to be honest, I didn't even notice the CGIed lip on Henry Cavill.  I was too distracted by that lovely smile.  Seriously, it's so blinding that you barely even notice his teeth being slightly crooked.  Curse that handsome man!

Edited November 21, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[JustaPerson]

Legit my favorite scene of Man of Steel was the last one, when Lois Lane says "welcome to the Planet" and Clark smiles. His smile is so lovely!

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, pity they didn't let him show it once in however many hours his previous movie ran. Of course I can't really blame him, I didn't find much to make me smile during that ordeal either.

While I think they probably erred in having Superman get too chummy too quickly with his new teammates (he'd fought alongside Diana and Bruce for what, ten minutes at most previously?) while everyone else has either had several days or several months to work together and bond, at least it feels like an unearned interaction that might be somewhat in character for him. Sort of a "hey, sorry about beating the crap out of all of you yesterday—we're cool now, right?" eagerness to set people at ease.

[Jediknight]

I liked it, nowhere near as good as Wonder Woman, but better than Man of Steel, Suicide Squad, and way better than Batman v Superman.

The biggest problem the movie had was that it was 4 or 5 movies jammed into one.  We get the introduction of Barry, the introduction of Aquaman, the introduction of Cyborg, and the resurrection of Superman, and that's all on top of the main plot.  Warner needed to take their time, and introduce those characters beforehand.  Also, I was expecting the credits to say "Featuring Gal Gadot's ass".  It's an incredibly nice one, but good lord, the upskirt shots, putting her in tight pants and always making sure to film her from behind, come on.

The actors all did well, Diana got to kick ass, I want this Barry to meet Barry from the show when he's allowed to be happy, Superman was finally Superman, and his suit was bright.  Thank Zod that his suit was bright, it wasn't dark and muted, it was bright, it was a beacon.  I loved Superman and Barry's blooming friendship.  All the Superman stuff in this movie, was the stuff Cavill's Superman should have already been doing.  He smiled a lot.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Jediknight

[Spartan Girl]

There are people on Tumblr that actually think JL should have been "more like BvS".

Like seriously!??

Even more astounding is that some actually didn't like the smiling lighthearted Superman, claiming he was too "cocky". Yeah the "I'm a big fan of truth, but I'm an even bigger fan of justice" was corny as hell, but still! Unbe-freaking-lievable.

On the upside, everyone seemed to hate Barry accidentally landing on Diana's chest (I see you, Whedon!) At least he deserves credit for getting off her as fast as humanely possible. I appreciate that.

[starri]

47 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

There are people on Tumblr that actually think JL should have been "more like BvS".

Not just Tumblr.  Snyder has an army of defenders on Reddit as well, who curse the reactionary suits at Warner Bros who couldn't see his grand operatic vision and instead were just about money.  They seem resistant to identifying that his two most successful movies (and even those were a bit lukewarm) came from essentially just directly copying Frank Miller and Moore/Gibbons to the screen.

It's fine to like what you like, but the numbers don't really lie.  You may love his style, but you're in the minority.

[Shannon L.]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even more astounding is that some actually didn't like the smiling lighthearted Superman

They are apparently too young to have seen the Christopher Reeves version.  My complaint was that he wasn't quite as charming as the Superman I was used to.  However, I do understand that it's not fair to compare the two and this Superman had just been dead a few hours before, so I pushed my thoughts aside and let them go.

[Jediknight]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even more astounding is that some actually didn't like the smiling lighthearted Superman, claiming he was too "cocky". Yeah the "I'm a big fan of truth, but I'm an even bigger fan of justice" was corny as hell, but still! Unbe-freaking-lievable.

And, as a massive Superman fan, Superman is a bit corny.

27 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

They are apparently too young to have seen the Christopher Reeves version.

Or the Animated Series version, and the Justice League/Justice League Unlimited version, and they haven't seen the Supergirl version.

[attica]

The 3/4 profile shot of Supe and Flash speeding to save the Russians thrilled me to my toes. Completely the image of what I remember from the comics of my youth.

Clark in the cornfield was 1/2 the size of recently-reanimated Supe. Made me giggle. I expected some continuity glitches, but that was even more noticeable to me than the missing stache. (Maybe because I'm ogling the muscles? Can't rule that out...)

[MarkHB]

8 hours ago, Jediknight said:

And, as a massive Superman fan, Superman is a bit corny.

Or the Animated Series version, and the Justice League/Justice League Unlimited version, and they haven't seen the Supergirl version.

Or they prefer the MoS depiction to the earlier ones.