Justice League (2017)

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I watched the Shazam trailer last night.  Looked kind of dumb, it appeared "Captain Marvel" (I guess they call him Shazam now, for legal reasons) retained Billy Batson's personality, for one thing.  I don't recall that being the case - IIRC, he had kind of a stripped down, inexperienced adult sort of personality.

Anyway, I'm not sure about the licensing deals and studios at play here.  Would Shazam be able to be featured in any future Justice League movies?  He has been a member in the comics.  I can see where they might not want to do it since his powers are similar to Superman's, but if his movie is successful why not?  But from what I saw, I don't expect it to be successful.

Captain Marvel was changed to retain Billy's personality / consciousness after Crisis on Infinite Earths, just after he and the Marvel Family were moved to the new, combined Earth and when he was mainly appearing in the Keith Giffen Justice League International. Later, I think after Flashpoint, they modified his powers to focus a bit more on electricity and their magical source. I assume both developments were to help differentiate him from Superman.

So far as I know, there's no reason he can't be treated as part of the Justice League, as the trailer and some set photos make clear that this is the same Earth as the prior films, and it's generally believed that this film went to New Line just as a tricky financial move.

Personally, I think the kid friendly angle is going to go over well; this might have the buzziest trailer coming out of Comic-Con.

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

So far as I know, there's no reason he can't be treated as part of the Justice League, as the trailer and some set photos make clear that this is the same Earth as the prior films, and it's generally believed that this film went to New Line just as a tricky financial move.

Personally, I think the kid friendly angle is going to go over well; this might have the buzziest trailer coming out of Comic-Con.

If the movie is a success then Shazam is definitely going to appear in any future Justice League movie.  You can't sideline your popular characters.

Regarding the trailer, the bottom line is that they absolutely, positively had to lighten things up.   It's pretty clear the majority of the viewing public thinks DC stands for Dark and Crappy.  Marvel is at the point where it can absorb a misfire or two but DC can't.  Doing the exact opposite of Marvel backfired spectacularly - after this movie I don't think people were clamoring to see more of the JL in action whereas they definitely wanted to see more Avenging after the first movie.

[ribboninthesky1]

I saw this a couple of months back, and thought it was terrible the first time I watched it.  The second time, it was less terrible, but still incoherent.  My favorite scenes were zombie!Superman handing everyone their asses, and his utter contempt for Batman during the "you won't let me live/you won't let me die" dialogue.  Cavill has been wasted because of WB/DC's floundering.  I thought Affleck was okay in BvS, but he was a bloated mess in this.  Years ago, I wondered how Cavill would have been as Bruce Wayne/Batman, but we'll never know.  

In any case, I didn't expect this to be worse than BvS, but it managed.  I wasn't sure where the studio could go from this mess, but Aquaman looks decent based on the trailers. I assume they'll try to recast Batman at some point, it'll be interesting to see how that goes.

[PepSinger]

At this point, I wish they would leave Batman the hell alone. 

[Trini]

5 hours ago, rmontro said:

12 hours ago, Trini said:

And yes, the swirls of electricity are now in the current Flash comics' artwork.

Do you know if they started doing this before or after the TV show did?  

[Hiding since it's not about the movie:]

Spoiler

I don't actually read the comics; but looking through DC's lists/galleries, it's definitely a part of the current Rebirth series, which started in 2016. With the previous Flash series - 'the New 52' (2011-2016) - it's been in some covers. The TV show started in 2014.

 

 

[MarkHB]

6 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

In any case, I didn't expect this to be worse than BvS, but it managed. 

To me it seemed obvious that the studio was in a "throw it out the door and wash our hands of it" mood.  Personally, I think by itself it's an enjoyable enough movie, but for those of us who liked MoS and BvS it was an ill-fitting, disappointing conclusion to the trilogy.

[rmontro]

On 8/5/2018 at 9:00 PM, MarkHB said:

To me it seemed obvious that the studio was in a "throw it out the door and wash our hands of it" mood.  Personally, I think by itself it's an enjoyable enough movie, but for those of us who liked MoS and BvS it was an ill-fitting, disappointing conclusion to the trilogy.

All three movies are flawed.  I thought MoS was horrible, and BvS was disappointing.  Justice League is not very good, but at least it's some light hearted fun in parts.

[Lugal]

Finally caught this the other day, and thought it was OK, but when your movie with Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman is only OK, you've already failed.  I didn't feel the connection with any of the characters like I do in a Marvel movie.  Affleck was all right as Batman and Gal was good as Wonder Woman,  Henry Cavill finally started to feel a little more like Superman, in the previous movies I thought he was much better as Clark Kent.  Cyborg was just kind of there (definitely should have had a solo movie first), Ezra Miller suffers in comparison to Grant Gustin, and Momoa stole every scene he was in, even though Aquaman felt like a combination of the old comics character and Maui from Moana.

The CG was really over the top and Steppenwolf felt like a poor copy of Thanos.  Even though the history of the last Alliance of Amazons, Atlanteans and Men (and some others) was clearly ripped off from Lord of the Rings, they might as well steal from the best.  Plus it sets things up for a Green Lantern movie.

On 7/18/2018 at 6:11 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

You did? I didn't hear any of that, and I LOVE Elfman's theme, have it as one of my ringtones, so know when I hear it.  And Williams' theme is so ICONIC, I can't believe I wouldn't have recognized it. But I don't feel like rewatching to confirm it. And ditto for everything else above.

Didn't catch Elfman's theme, but the Williams theme shows up when Superman is fighting Flash in front of the memorial wall.  It was cool to hear it again, but it seemed like an odd moment to put that theme in, as opposed to when Superman shows up to fight Steppenwolf or when he and Cyborg pull the motherboxes apart.

[Trini]

56 minutes ago, Lugal said:

Cyborg was just kind of there (definitely should have had a solo movie first),

I don't know if a solo movie was necessary; but I do think that we needed to see more of his story.

Quote

Ezra Miller suffers in comparison to Grant Gustin,

It's kind of an unfair comparison, since he was mostly comic relief in this. I'm patiently waiting for his solo so that we can see more range.

[Bruinsfan]

I thought Miller was decent in his first scene with Affleck and in the gravedigging scene with Fisher,  but at other points they leaned his character way too hard into the nerdy awkwardness and made me cringe.

[Enigma X]

I watched this but...Affleck as Batman is still painful to watch. Also, how did Batman know Steppenwolf was looking for these boxes before Diana told him?

[Peace 47]

On 8/8/2018 at 6:55 PM, Lugal said:

Didn't catch Elfman's theme, but the Williams theme shows up when Superman is fighting Flash in front of the memorial wall.  It was cool to hear it again, but it seemed like an odd moment to put that theme in, as opposed to when Superman shows up to fight Steppenwolf or when he and Cyborg pull the motherboxes apart.

The Elfman theme appeared when Batman and the others met Gordon after Gordon flashed the bat signal.  The first shot of Gordon looking up at Batman has the theme playing in the background.  The scene is on YouTube for anyone interested, just search “Gordon Justice League.”

Edited August 11, 2018 by Peace 47

[VCRTracking]

Finally!

[Bruinsfan]

I'd have preferred if they just left him looking like that rather than the freakish CGI makeover we got.

What, Mother Box resurrecting Superman from the dead after almost 2 years (and disintegrating his jacket, shirt and belt, while miraculously leaving his pants intact!) is fine, but causing a little facial hair growth in the process that he wouldn't take time to shave off in light of the impending apocalypse was a bridge too far?

Edited April 4, 2019 by Bruinsfan

[BetterButter]

 

[Lantern7]

5 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

 

Dang! Slow again!!

Seriously, though, let’s say JL had been delayed while Snyder took care of family business. Would it have been better than what we wound up getting?

[Bruinsfan]

No, remember Snyder is the one who wanted Jimmy Olsen to appear only to be executed onscreen and okayed all of... whatever that was Jesse Eisenberg was doing instead of playing Lex Luthor. It would still suck, just in a different way.

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah considering what a garbage fire Batman v Superman was, I have no doubt the Snyder cut of JL would have been even more terrible.

[MarkHB]

On 3/31/2020 at 1:07 PM, Lantern7 said:

Seriously, though, let’s say JL had been delayed while Snyder took care of family business. Would it have been better than what we wound up getting?

My thoughts are: the theatrical cut of JL was an entertaining movie, but for those of us who really liked MoS and BvS, it was in almost every way imaginable an extremely poor conclusion to the trilogy.

[BetterButter]

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by BetterButter

[WritinMan]

Zack Snyder really likes "Hallelujah."

I have to say, I don't really care about Snyder's Justice League, and I still thought that new trailer looked good.

Edited August 22, 2020 by WritinMan

[Guest]

It’s going to be 4 hours broken into 4 parts.
 

I’ve been slowly coming around to being excited about this but the length and teaser killed that. I actually like “Hallelujah” but it didn’t work for me here. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Guest

[Spartan Girl]

Really, Snyder?! Out of all the songs you could have used in the trailer, you chose to recycle the cover of "Hallelujah" from Nite Owl and Silk Spectre's sex scene in Watchmen?!

Also, FOUR HOURS?!  No thank you.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[Bill1978]

18 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also, FOUR HOURS?!  No thank you.

Holy mother of tornados Batman!! I had no idea this cut was gonna be 4 hours. Based on his previous Superman movies this is gonna feel like 8 hours. I forgot that Synder's plan was for it to be originally released in 2 parts.

I admit I'm not that knowledgeable about the BTS of Justice League but reading the comments on YouTube for that trailer has me questioning what I thought happened in production. The comments are implying this version is going to be incredible and much better than what we originally got and 100% different to Whedon's cut BUT didn't Whedon work with what was already shot and did some reshoots and tweaking of scenes? In other words, most of the original theatrical release is going to be in this version just with additional scenes, rearrangement of scene placement, all colour removed, less humour and more seriousness? I quite enjoyed the original JL but I understand why Snyder's fans would want to see HIS vision but I haven't been clamouring for it. Plus this version still won't fix the main issue I had with caring about the JL and them being created. Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg should have had their own movie before JL so the teamup would feel more earned and incredible like what Marvel did with The Avengers, rather than shoehorning their origin stories into this film. True Synder's version now has the benefit of Aquaman having his own movie but my complaint still stands DC rushed the formation of JL.

I'll watch this eventually out of curiosity but I'm not desperate to see it. I'm quite content to re-watch Whedon's version, even with its flaws.

[Sakura12]

Are they re filming this? How do they have 4 hours of footage? Is it going to be long drawn out scenes that should've been edited and cut. Because Man of Steel managed to have the most boring action sequence I've ever seen because it felt like it went on forever. And it was just a bunch of CGI. 

Now they do have the advantage of Wonder Woman and Aquaman of having their solo movies. So they really only have to cram in the Flash and Cyborgs story. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Are they re filming this? How do they have 4 hours of footage?

No, it’s entirely from Snyder’s original footage with added VFX and ADR from the actors. Whedon threw out a ton of footage to get it the length DC wanted and to make room for humor. 

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Is it going to be long drawn out scenes that should've been edited and cut. Because Man of Steel managed to have the most boring action sequence I've ever seen because it felt like it went on forever. And it was just a bunch of CGI. 

Probably. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Guest

[Trini]

5 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

... The comments are implying this version is going to be incredible and much better than what we originally got and 100% different to Whedon's cut ...

This whole Synder Cut thing has been completely overhyped, IMO.

The only thing I'm mildly interested in is more of Cyborg's story, because that was clearly missing from the first cut.

[Guest]

In other news Snyder is still a pretentious ass. Insulting a huge part of DC’s fan base is always a brilliant move.

 

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

In other news Snyder is still a pretentious ass. Insulting a huge part of DC’s fan base is always a brilliant move.

 

To quote James Hunt: "A FILM FOR GROWN UPS in which batman fights an alien with the help of a robot, a goddess with a rope, a different alien, a guy who talks to fish and a guy who runs really fast"

[Bill1978]

I'm with Scott Mendelson in regards to what that trailer presented. It does look like the same movie and it should be since Whedon was required to use pre-existing footage and squeeze it into a movie madated by the studio to be under 2 hours - so there is a lot of scenes that can be extended. I feel all Snyderr has done is removed Whedon's part (the humour) and returned unnecessary long secnes and removed all colour and replaced it with his yellow tinge or is it blue tinge. I can't remember, all I know is all the colours will look faded.

I also hate the idea that if it is humourous and colourful then it is for kids and can't be taken seriously by adults. I predict this will be Snyder's response to anyone who doesn't enjoy his cut - 'You aren't a grownup!! It wasn't made for you!!!'

[Sakura12]

The grown ups seem to like the 2 DC movies that were colorful with humor in Wonder Woman and Aquaman. The 2 that Synder didn't direct. 

Batman is dark gritty, most of the other heroes are not. Why would I want to see all the heroes have the same gloomy personality trait? That's not what the comics have. 

Batman v Superman had a terrible reception, why would people think his Justice League would be better? If they want Cyborg to be treated right give him his own movie. Cramming his origin into a team up movie is not treating the character with respect. 

[Chyromaniac]

So, the version of the trailer I saw seemed to be cropped to 4x3 - is that what this thing is actually going to look like?  I still think the whole Snyder Cut phenomenon is dumb and I have no interest in signing up to see it.  The theatrical cut of JL was by no means a good film - but it was at least bad in a way that was at least fun to watch.  Doubling the run time with ponderous backstories and even more CGI monsters and scenery?  I'll pass.  I do however admit that there's a certain morbid curiosity to how weird this project will end up being.  Otherwise, I think we can move on from Leonard Cohen and Hallelujah now, thanks.  

[MarkHB]

It's not quite 4:3; it's actually the IMAX 1.43:1 ratio. All of Snyder's original footage was shot that way and cropped for the wide-screen theatrical release. It's going to be released that way, so pillarboxed on modern TV's.

The best estimates I've seen are that about 25%, or half an hour, of the theatrical release is footage Snyder shot. His name is on the film because a) he didn't exercise his nuclear option to take it off, and b) the DGA rules apparently say that the director's credit goes to whoever directed most of the principal photography.

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The grown ups seem to like the 2 DC movies that were colorful with humor in Wonder Woman and Aquaman. The 2 that Synder didn't direct. 

Don't forget Shazam! Grown ups liked that one and Snyder didn't direct that one either. So Snyder can bite me.

[scarynikki12]

I thought I read that they were going do some filming to add to the cut but maybe that was a hope rather than a promise?

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

The best estimates I've seen are that about 25%, or half an hour, of the theatrical release is footage Snyder shot. His name is on the film because a) he didn't exercise his nuclear option to take it off, and b) the DGA rules apparently say that the director's credit goes to whoever directed most of the principal photography.

I’ve see those estimates before and I’ve never understood where they came from. It seems way too low. 

 

14 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I thought I read that they were going do some filming to add to the cut but maybe that was a hope rather than a promise?

There was the assumption that the cast being involved meant re-shoots but based on reports that was never the plan. 

[Chyromaniac]

49 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

It's not quite 4:3; it's actually the IMAX 1.43:1 ratio. All of Snyder's original footage was shot that way and cropped for the wide-screen theatrical release. It's going to be released that way, so pillarboxed on modern TV's.

Thanks - that makes sense.  I guess I could go back and see if there are any shots that would be significantly hindered by being cropped for widescreen, but I would be surprised if there were.  Snyder had to know the movie would've been altered anyway for normal theatrical screens, TV showings, home video...  Whatever benefits IMAX could bring to the story, I can't believe that this film would be shot in a way to detract from those other venues.  Sticking with IMAX aspect ratio now that it has no chance at being shown on an IMAX screen is so emblematic of this whole endeavor, and his obstinance.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Chyromaniac

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I thought I read that they were going do some filming to add to the cut but maybe that was a hope rather than a promise?

There was one scene that Snyder has spoken of that he wasn't able to finish filming, and we see the setup for it in the trailer where Martha Kent visits Lois at her apartment.  I haven't seen any place that I would trust say whether he'll be able to shoot the payoff or not.

In case anyone hasn't heard this...

Spoiler

Snyder shared the storyboard... Martha and Lois have coffee or something, then Martha leaves... and once she's out in the hallway, she turns into Martian Manhunter... and then into General / Secretary Swanwick who has been J'onn J'onzz all along. As many people thought ever since Man of Steel.  He never got to shoot the bit with Harry Lennix.

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by MarkHB

[xaxat]

4 hours ago, MarkHB said:

It's not quite 4:3; it's actually the IMAX 1.43:1 ratio. All of Snyder's original footage was shot that way and cropped for the wide-screen theatrical release. It's going to be released that way, so pillarboxed on modern TV's

Thanks for the explanation. I watch a lot of old movies, so I'm used to that presentation. But it's going to confuse a lot of people. 

[Starfish35]

20 hours ago, Dani said:

In other news Snyder is still a pretentious ass. Insulting a huge part of DC’s fan base is always a brilliant move.

 

Ah yes.  🙄  Thanks for reminding me why I don’t have much use for Zach Snyder or his particular “vision”.  Not that Justice League was particularly good, but...yeah.  It’s this whole “superhero movies for adults” attitude that really makes me roll my eyes and give it a hard pass.  

[Bruinsfan]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:51 PM, Trini said:

The only thing I'm mildly interested in is more of Cyborg's story, because that was clearly missing from the first cut.

Yeah, given how Ray Fisher wowed me with what made it into the theatrical cut, that part should be interesting/enjoyable. Plus, more screentime for Joe Morton is never a bad thing.

I figure the film will look monochromatic and steely rather than like the NBC peacock upchucked all over it, plus the cringeworthiness of Whedon's juvenile humor and having half of Diana's scenes filmed with the Margot Robbie Ass Cam® from Suicide Squad will be replaced by lots of silent ponderous sequences where lenses flare, people glare, and fetishized violence causes collateral damage everywhere. That will probably be a wash between the two versions, with the viewer's individual taste determining which sucks harder.

The one reason I'm truly glad it's happening is that it got Henry Cavill back promoting a DC project at DC Fandome, which gives me hope that he'll be reprising his role in future films rather than Warner Bros. recasting with David Corenswet, Matt Bomer, or whoever else Ryan Murphy happens to be obsessing over when the next Superman movie goes into preproduction.

[MarkHB]

Surprised this never made it over, but here's the official teaser from last month's FanDome :

 

 

Also, even though some reputable sources said it was off the table, Zack Snyder is going to get a week of new shooting with some of the principals.  I have to assume that Harry Lennix will be there for the fabled shot they never got....

 

[BetterButter]

44 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Surprised this never made it over, but here's the official teaser from last month's FanDome :

It was posted.

[MarkHB]

4 hours ago, BetterButter said:

It was posted.

I thought it was, probably in the DCEU topic.

[BetterButter]

Jared Leto to Play Joker in Zack Snyder's 'Justice League'

[Starfish35]

Yay!  One more reason for me never to watch it! 😄

[GHScorpiosRule]

34 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

Jared Leto to Play Joker in Zack Snyder's 'Justice League'

🤢🤮

[Guest]

10 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Jared Leto to Play Joker in Zack Snyder's 'Justice League'

Leto’s Joker and Eisenberg’s Lex Luther in the same movie? It’s like a bad villain double down. 

Also, when was it confirmed that they were doing reshoots? Seems like a lot of effort, time and money spent to finish Snyder’s vision when he clearly has no interest in making a movie general audience actually like and has a general disdain for comic fans. He really can’t put together his movie with the 5+ hours of footage he already has? No wonder DC is a mess. 

At this rate the SnyderCut is going to be released before the movie people actually want to see. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Guest

[cambridgeguy]

Let's hope he doesn't decide to use this as an excuse to act like a giant douche again.  Maybe you shouldn't cast a method actor as a psychopathic supervillain?  Imagine if Daniel Day-Lewis ever played a murderer.

[MarkHB]

19 hours ago, Dani said:

Also, when was it confirmed that they were doing reshoots? Seems like a lot of effort, time and money spent to finish Snyder’s vision

Last month. I think it has gone from "just finish what you wanted to release 3 years ago" to  "we're desperate for content so just keep filming, whatever you need!" I won't be a bit surprised if HBO Max spreads it out over 4 months to keep people subscribing.