S06.E09: No Way Out

[RustbeltWriter]

• Negan not off to a good start. Some pointlessly antagonistic mooks, a lot of posturing, an abrupt conclusion. Low to no tension scene, and your new major villain is already established as toothless. I'm sure they'll attempt to remedy that with another Shocking Death, but much like what happened with the Governor, the constant tonal shifts just leave everything feeling muddy and unsatisfying.

 

 

 

Negan has been sort of laughable since I first heard his name said out loud. The buildup has become tiresome when you consider he's just really violent bad guy #189. We get a new one (or two) every season. Looking at those bikers Daryl killed it's clear that in the zombie apocalypse, all the assholes will gravitate toward one another and crown their most obnoxious as leader.

[LovesLinus]

[Mya Stone]

Guys...I'm completely inappropriate - during Rick's monologue, which was solidly given by Andrew Lincoln...and he was all, "I want to show you the new world, Coral..." I interjected, "One with no depth perception."

All I could hear in my head was the song from Alladin, "A Whole New World!"

[Black Knight]

I laughed at the nice zombies who went at Rick in ones and twos so that he wasn't engulfed within a minute of going outside. That, and Rick not getting everyone else killed as a result of his stupidity because Daryl/Sasha/Abe arrived just in time, was so eye-rolling.

 

As has been pointed out by others, the sudden move from day to night (while the gang moved only a short distance through town) and the dismissal of the "Mom? Mom?" cliffhanger were dumb. From what I've read in interviews, it sounds like after they did the midseason finale TPTB got obsessed with the idea of doing a nighttime zombie attack and so they just forced it with no regard for how they'd set up things at the end of the midseason finale.

[SharonH58]

G'Day Wolf

  Love this!!

[Giselle]

Just like the streets of Alexandria this series is going in circles leading to nowhere.

Come on writers takes some risks!

[morgankobi]

If Gabriel becomes a badass we can call him FFPP (Formerly Father Pee Pants)

 What is this anarchy?

Stay the course!

[SharonH58]

- And just an aside, what was that lame country singer doing on Talking Dead? She was nothing but an embarrassment and added nothing.

I had high hopes for this episode, but ended up feeling let down and pandered to.

She, like, watches movies and tv shows.  It's her like, genre. 

[festivus]

I wish the in-memoriam montage had included the hat. Let us have a moment of silence for the hat. Long live Carl's hat. You will be missed

 

Oh my gosh do you think it is really gone? I can only pray. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to take Coral walking around with an eyepatch and that hat.

 

She, like, watches movies and tv shows.  It's her like, genre.

 

Well at least she didn't say jondra (old AI joke)

Edited February 15, 2016 by festivus

[Dobian]

So when is CDB going to start calling Carl by his new nickname, "Governor"?

[Dobian]

Okay one more...I kept picturing Ralphie's mom in that scene yelling, "You're going to shoot your eye out!"  I'm done now.

[Boofish]

That walker kill montage stands out as one of my favorite moments on the show. Also included

Sophia coming out of that barn

Tyrese turning around and holding Judith after the fall of the prison

Rick getting in that train car where he left his last f!ck

The look on Gareth face when he saw that machete with the red handle

The Daryl/Carol Rick/Judith reunion

Glen fighting a walker tied to a chair

[piequinn35]

I wanted to see Walker Jessie and her useless children just so they could be killed again by Rick and Co. Don't judge me!

Nothing left for them to become zombies, they became dinner bonanza of the other zombies.

Don't judge me too! :))

[Grace284]

I cared so little about... Jamie? Jessie? Joey? that I forgot who she was midway through Rick's dreamy flashbacks. It's handy that this show has a built in excuse to quickly get rid of its more rubbish aspects. Farewell, Jodie(?) and finally dead Wolf guy, may you never be referenced again.

 

 

Also, in that "God has given us a way out," speech, was I the only one who thought for a minute that FPP was about to literally sacrifice Judith?

 

That probably would have been more in character. I had to laugh when everyone just let him walk away with Judith with no more than a "you good?". I'm amazed he didn't accidentally drop her on his way to the church without realising.

[Ellaria]

Overall, I enjoyed parts of this episode but I was distracted by elements that didn't hang together. The daytime to nighttime zombie walk that seemed to cover very little ground. Abe and Sasha firing at the zombie hoard attacking Glenn but miraculously not hitting Glenn. Rick's impetuous dash to slaughter zombies with a medium-size axe...followed by the remaining characters unspoken commitment to Alexandria's Last Stand.

 

I thought that there were a few cool visual elements: Daryl's blast of Negan's gang, the zombies headed toward the flaming lake, Carl's missing eye. Yes, some of this was illogical but it was visually interesting. Clearly, this is where Nicotero excels. I am continually amazed at the detail and differentiation of the members of the zombie herd.

 

Still, I must agree with much of what is said below...

• Go nowhere plot lines. We've likely seen the last of the Wolves, who started as an ominous presence and ended as a bunch of pointless, blood crazed lunatics. They served no real purpose beyond driving the conflict for a single episode and serving as Alexandria's 534th wake-up call. They can be added to the Hospital, Terminus and Governor parts I and II as weird, tire-spinning story lines with no perceivable arc and feeble denouements.
• An overstuffed cast littered with characters that have low to no arc, in order to have a large roster of red shirts handy for "shocking" zombie deaths. I've not cared a whit for a single dead Alexandrian, including the whole poorly developed and laughably dispatched Porchdick family. 
• Logical/pacing inconsistency...Characters often behave oddly or stupidly in service of plot points, and not even interesting ones. A bunch of people act senselessly so the Wolf can run off with the doctor and we can have...what? An indispensable 1-2 minutes of them faffing around by a ladder before returning to where they started? This is not good storytelling.
• REALLY cumbersome exposition. 

 

My beef with this show for the longest time is the bloat of characters. The Wolves served little purpose other than to muddle Morgan's already muddled story line. I think that the redemption arc given to Australian Wolf had no place in this episode. I fast-forwarded thru much of his dialogue. (In part because I can't stand looking at his teeth.) I imagine that the gruesome deaths of the Porchdick family were supposed to have an "oh no" effect on me but it didn't. It was a bit anti-climatic coming after the tease in the mid-season finale. With too many characters, lots of "go nowhere plot lines" result. Or maybe its vice-versa. IMO, it drags down this show and throws off the pacing and storytelling.

 

after two seasons of "Why is this guy here" Father Gabriel transformed into a Warrior Priest, Blessed of Sigmar. At this point I just want ONE Wire Alumni to get a decent character arc on this bloody program. Could this be the one? Probably not, but we'll see.

 

 

And with that comment, you have just become my best buddy. Tired of watching my favorites brought into this only to receive little character development and subsequently tossed into the pile of "unnecessaries."

Edited February 16, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[lulee]

How was Carol going to finish the comment to Morgan about not killing the Wolf, before she stopped herself?

 

She said, "If it was for us, you would've ..."

[maplebrew]

I assume Carol would have said that "If it was for us, you would've killed him." That's quite a declaration to say out loud about another human being, so it is understandable to squash it. Suffice to say that Carol and Morgan need to figure out how to co-exist. 

 

Came here to post that while Glen and Enid were having another TWD pep talk between characters, a la 'you have to keep living because...' I kept tapping my imaginary watch, wanting to get back to the action. So wasn't the episode for a patented Glen heart-to-heart. 

 

Speaking of male characters who have been spared death for a long time, the problem with Daryl having an awesome moment like he did is that I fear that it may be his last such moment. 

[ghoulina]

If Gabriel becomes a badass we can call him FFPP (Formerly Father Pee Pants)

 

I think we can stick with FPP. It can just refer to "Father Punch and Pray". 

[maplebrew]

It's going to take more for FPP to redeem himself. Being grateful that he was able to calmly walk through a walker horde, directly to a secure building and stay inside isn't enough to turn him in to Uncle FPP to all children for me. While his speech at the end showed growth, it will be awhile before he earns as terrific a nickname as "Father Punch and Pray" - it does have plenty of potential though as names go. 

[mrspidey]

When Ron pointed his gun at Rick, I said "Michonne, would you kindly...?"

And then she totally did! Awesome!

[nodorothyparker]

I was momentarily floored Rick would so blithely hand Judith over into FPP's care considering he spent much of the first half of this season comically not bothering to hide that he considered FPP more useless that whatever he could scrape off his boot.  But there also weren't really a wealth of candidates to pick from either unless he wanted to send Michonne off on babysitting duty when he needed to have someone more than competent to have his back.  Season 5 FPP probably would have thrown Judith at the walkers and run away squealing and leaving a trail of fresh pee behind him.

[Ohwell]

Question:  If Moe Greene was shot dead in the eye in The Godfather how is is that Coral got shot in the eye and lived?  Wouldn't the bullet have gone through his brain?  It's not like he got shot with a B-B-Gun ("You'll shoot your eye out!).

Edited February 15, 2016 by Ohwell

[Morrigan2575]

Question: If Moe Greene was shot dead in the eye in The Godfather how is is that Coral got shot in the eye and lived? Wouldn't the bullet have gone through his brain? It's not like he got shot with a B-B-Gun ("You'll shoot your eye out!).

The way I viewed it, Ron was aiming the gun at Rick, not Carl. When Michonne skewered Ron, the gun shift to the side and discharged, accidentally hitting Carl. I just chalked this up to not actually hitting the eye but right to the side of the eye. In other words, 1 in to the left and Carl doesn't even get a scrape, 1 in to the right and Carl is dead dead (or vice versa if my directions are off)

Edited February 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Madding crowd]

I loved all of the action scenes, even though I found many of them unrealistic. The beginning with Daryl blowing up the bikers was awesome, mostly because Daryl has been kind of useless for awhile. I do find it annoying to be teased with Neagan without actually seeing him. I'm not sure we need Neagan and the wolves, but I'm guessing we will not see much more with the unfair wolves.

I did find it unbelievable that Rick and the others could just enter into a huge crowd of walkers and they would stand back as he killed them one by one. By the time he swung at one walker, the others should have quickly pounced on him. The show needs to at least keep a little bit of danger with the Walkers. Right now it seems like they will just stand there and wait for you to kill them. Glen having yet another close call was really not needed.

I have lost my love for Carol and just can't get it back. I didn't like how she handled Sam who was just a scared, little boy, and I don't like her newfound coldness. I get it that Morgan is being too "zen' for this world, but Carol is too mean. I also did feel sad at Sam and Ron losing their lives. In a real life situation, not all kids would be like Carl, in fact most of them wouldn't be. And Sam and Ron had really crummy lives in many ways. Jess was always kind of bland for me, but I can't imagine she would want to live after seeing her child torn apart-I wouldn't.

[nodorothyparker]

Question:  If Moe Greene was shot dead in the eye in The Godfather how is is that Coral got shot in the eye and lived?  Wouldn't the bullet have gone through his brain?  It's not like he got shot with a B-B-Gun ("You'll shoot your eye out!).

 

Whatever animates the zombies also changed the laws of physics and science in general?  If I go with that, it makes things like rotting corpses as bulletproof shields and vans falling nosefirst off of overpasses and landing on their tires a whole lot less of a headache to try to sort out.

[nachomama]

How many "churches" did Alexandria have? the steeple toppled into the fence letting walkers in, so what was the perfectly pristine church Glenn and Enid went to? And FPP had "followers" and his "church" was a garage? Glenn and Enid's, I can fanwank that it still had windows because it was inside the walls and they had felt all snuggly and safe before (although people hide guns in hollowed out song books?) but I loved that while everyone was hiding out they just hung blankets in windows. 

[Giselle]

I wish the in-memoriam montage had included the hat. Let us have a moment of silence for the hat. Long live Carl's hat. You will be missed

 

Oh,  I bet they rescue the hat. Someone will snatch it up and present it One Eyed Carl as a stand in for a Hallmark card.  I'd prefer to see some zombie wearing it but zombies haven't a sense of quirky fashion nor the ability to appreciate it and pick it up.

 

Maybe next episode we will see the dispatching of the zombified Porch Dick clan.

[nodorothyparker]

Someone's probably going to have to clear Jessie's house and put zombified Deanna down too since she didn't save a round for herself.

[Anela]

I don't blame Jessie for screaming and losing her mind. She was watching her son get eaten by zombies. Rick lost his mind when he saw that Carl had been shot, only he ran around swinging an axe - he just ran right back outside, once his son was indoors. 

 

I was sad that they died. Although that little ass who shot Carl, had it coming. He was planning to do that even before he saw his family die. 

 

My favourite part was Daryl blowing those guys up at the beginning. I laughed out loud - I thought he was going for the weapon from the building from that last episode. I think I'm already over Negan, and he hasn't even made an appearance.

[Zanne]

I handwaved a lot ( why didn't Carl let go of Ron's hand and pry Jessie's had from his wrist) but who cares.

 

It reminded me of my CPI training. If someone grabs you by the wrist, you twist your hand toward the weak point of the grip where the thumb and forefinger meet and can easily pull free. I'm surprised Rick didn't teach Carl that!

[SharonH58]

I didn't find it confusing at all. They could have stayed inside and let CDB do the work. But they all stepped up. Even freaking Olivia, who was useless as hell up until now. I thought it made sense that he would see them in a new light, see the potential this place and this group now held. A fight like that will bond you like nothing else will. 

I meant his rambling speech.  But his going out alone to kill walkers was stupid not confusing.

[walnutqueen]

How many "churches" did Alexandria have? the steeple toppled into the fence letting walkers in, so what was the perfectly pristine church Glenn and Enid went to? And FPP had "followers" and his "church" was a garage? Glenn and Enid's, I can fanwank that it still had windows because it was inside the walls and they had felt all snuggly and safe before (although people hide guns in hollowed out song books?) but I loved that while everyone was hiding out they just hung blankets in windows. 

 

It wasn't the church steeple that toppled and smashed the fence - it was some other shaky tower thingy that the truck smashed into earlier..

[ghoulina]

I meant his rambling speech.  But his going out alone to kill walkers was stupid not confusing.

 

Yes, that's what I thought you meant. I didn't find the speech confusing. I thought he was saying how he knew now that this group could be relied on, that they could all work together, that they finally understood what it takes to survive in this world. Yea, he was a bit rambling, given his concern over Carl, but I felt that I got the gist of it. 

[Captain I0]

I don't understand why so many people give Carol such a pass for her shit. It's not just Sam's breakdown, the kid may have freaked out without her, but she set so many of these events off in the first place.

She started when they got to Alexandria by playing Rick not only against the town, but playing him against the rest of CDB too, trying to get him not to trust anyone.

She then delibrately pushed prochdick in the incident that set him over the edge to get all throat slicey on Deanna's husband.

And as dumb as what Morgan did was, he was right that in the middle of the Walker attack was not the time for Carol to try to deal with any of it.

So much went to shit because of the things she did. She's really only had one redeeming moment in years (albeit a big one, in the terminus rescue)

I'm ready to see her die.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Captain I0

[DEL901]

Question:  If Moe Greene was shot dead in the eye in The Godfather how is is that Coral got shot in the eye and lived?  Wouldn't the bullet have gone through his brain?  It's not like he got shot with a B-B-Gun ("You'll shoot your eye out!).

According to the director, the bullet hit the cheekbone and the shards took out Carl's eye. 

[Scaeva]

Many (if not most) do, but the really good ones?  Both eyes open - which is really hard.

 

I can't speak for competition shooters and the like, but I did serve in the Marine Corps, and there you're trained to shoot with one eye closed. There is no shortage of skilled marksmen in the Corps.

 

Carl will be fine, and back to his old-zombie killing self in no time. He just gets to look like a pirate while doing it. 

Edited February 15, 2016 by Scaeva

[CarpeDiem54]

Holy Shit Moly! After reading the live thread, and then this one, I had to stay up until 1:45 am until the episode was available on Amazon to watch it. It didn't disappoint! I loved the whole damned thing!

Now, if they can kill off Enid the Queen of Teenage Emo Angst and maybe Denise the Dumbest Doctor Who Ever Lived, I'll be completely happy.

BTW, I have two friends who are psychiatrists. They are medical doctors with several more years training in their specialty. They can deliver babies and certainly know what an infection is, without the need for a cheat sheet, for fuck's sake. My brother, who is an RN, can do that, too. What they can't do is major surgery. That would take several more years training in a different specialty. The doctor character is poorly written and I can't stand the actress.

[forum4idiots]

btw......

 

enough with the glenn bit.  it's getting old.  we get you are trying to do a "boy who cried wolf" schtick.  might as well have a counter on the number of episodes glenn has left on the show.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I love, love, LOVE this episode! It had everything I could ever want. When all hope is lost, just infuriate Rick and he'll get shit going.

 

That opening! That explosion! I was cracking up at Abraham's "Who's Negan?" and then again when Daryl said something like "sorry that took so long". I was for sure that Sasha was going to eat it. I'm very glad she didn't. 

 

I was sad to see the Andersons die, especially the look in Ron's eyes as his brother and then his mother. That was heartbreaking. My sympathy ended when he raised his gun, though. I knew a split second before she did it that Michonne was going to kill him. No one messes with Michonne's babies. NO ONE! 

 

I foresee Maggie and Glenn adopting Enid. They all have a bond now from that whole ordeal. I thought Glenn was dead until Abe, Sasha, and Daryl showed up. I'm very confused about how Abe managed to nail all the walkers but not Glenn. I will have to ask my stepdad if it's that possible (he was in the Marines). 

 

Father Pee Pants (and many others!) redeemed himself! I was so surprised that Rick let him take Judith, but I guess that risk was much more preferable to the alternative. I'm still confused because I thought he was going to the church? Maybe I don't remember it correctly. The redemption of the Alexandrians was a good move because I no longer want all of them to die. I think we need that because I don't think it's going to be pretty when this Negan dude finds them. Hopefully, they'll be ok by then. I wonder who they'll send out to recruit people?

 

Denise and the Wolf dude were so falling in love in a hopeless place. It was very strange. I didn't want the Wolf to die by the end, either, but it was definitely necessary. I wonder if we should put Denise in charge of de-brainwashing the remaining Wolves (if there are any). And it would be nice to have some sort of group or something that teaches people to live in society again whilst maintaining their intense survival instincts. Something like a less cheesy version of the classes the military makes soldiers returning home take.

 

Lake of fire was cool. I cracked up at the one walker who just fell into the water. I love this show so much, mainly for the mood swings it has.

 

I hope they can find more people. There needs to be kids in this world who actually survive. 

 

TL;DR - SpaghettiTuesdays thought pretty much everyone was going to die, but surprisingly few did.

[forum4idiots]

how funny...carrie underwood thinks she'll survive the zombie apocalypse.....awwwwww.  more like the first one to get eaten.

[peach]

My favorite moment was when the main crew were all packed into the fuel truck with Daryl on top.  Like,FINALLY, these characters are together, again.  Also, when Michonne skewered Ron, my son clapped and said, the family is together again! 

 

I saw one of the producers happily talking about how much some of the actors enjoyed working together again, and how they felt so much energy, and I thought, YES, take notice.  This is the energy that's been lacking the entire season.  I hope they keep their focus.

[Bad Example]

how funny...carrie underwood thinks she'll survive the zombie apocalypse.....awwwwww.  more like the first one to get eaten.

 

Yeah, awwww, bless.  

Unless Walkers are repelled by fake tan.  In that case, she's got a great shot.  

[piequinn35]

how funny...carrie underwood thinks she'll survive the zombie apocalypse.....awwwwww.  more like the first one to get eaten.

how will she survive? by singing to the walkers? :))

[Bad Example]

That opening! That explosion! I was cracking up at Abraham's "Who's Negan?" and then again when Daryl said something like "sorry that took so long". I was for sure that Sasha was going to eat it. I'm very glad she didn't. 

 

 

I was the producers' dream audience for that scene.

1.  Never occurred to me to think about what was going on with Daryl and the bumper to bumper search other than what the guy stated.

2.  I was sure Sasha or Abraham was going to die.  

3.  I was sure Sasha AND Abraham were going to die.

4.  "What just happened?  Where did that explosion come from?"

So yep.  Owned.  They had me for every moment.

[DEM]

I'm still confused because I thought he was going to the church?

 

There is a makeshift meeting place for the congregation inside the walls. The formal church building (Glenn's location) is outside the walls.

[walnutqueen]

how funny...carrie underwood thinks she'll survive the zombie apocalypse.....awwwwww.  more like the first one to get eaten.

 

More like the first one to get killed by her fellow survivors.  ;-)

[Ohwell]

According to the director, the bullet hit the cheekbone and the shards took out Carl's eye. 

OK then.  It sure did look like he was shot square in the eye though.  I'll have to see that scene again. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm still confused because I thought he was going to the church? Maybe I don't remember it correctly.

FPP said he would take Judith to his church. I totally forgot but when they first got the Deanna offered FPP the official church but he turned her down. He was still mentally unstable especially after leaving his flock to die, watching CDB go crazy on the terminus group etc. FPP decided to set up a church in the garage of one of them homes instead of going in an actual church again.

[Dodginblue]

I don't understand why so many people give Carol such a pass for her shit. It's not just Sam's breakdown, the kid may have freaked out without her, but she set so many of these events off in the first place.

She started when they got to Alexandria by playing Rick not only against the town, but playing him against the rest of CDB too, trying to get him not to trust anyone.

She then delibrately pushed prochdick in the incident that set him over the edge to get all throat slicey on Deanna's husband.

And as dumb as what Morgan did was, he was right that in the middle of the Walker attack was not the time for Carol to try to deal with any of it.

So much went to shit because of the things she did. She's really only had one redeeming moment in years (albeit a big one, in the terminus rescue)

I'm ready to see her die.

 

I think Carol's had more than one redeeming moment.  I don't think Tyrese could have kept Judith safe without Carol along, especially with that one kid being off her rocker (the one who killed her sister, can't remember her name).  And I think Carol was instrumental in fighting off the wolves.  She's a complicated character, probably the one who's had the most development over the life of the show.  She's got that cold place insider her and it drives a lot of her behavior but I think she comes from a place where she's convinced she's doing what is necessary to keep her group safe, not because she's just an evil psycho or something.

[Lexxy]

OK then.  It sure did look like he was shot square in the eye though.  I'll have to see that scene again. 

 

That's what I thought at first too, even knowing what happens in the comics, that's how strong my desire to see Carl go is. I totally thought he was a goner. 

 

And obviously there is a ton of suspension of disbelief to be had here but EWWW blood and zombie guts covered Rick hovering over his son's empty eye socket in the recovery bed. 

[Guest]

I did find it unbelievable that Rick and the others could just enter into a huge crowd of walkers and they would stand back as he killed them one by one. By the time he swung at one walker, the others should have quickly pounced on him. The show needs to at least keep a little bit of danger with the Walkers. Right now it seems like they will just stand there and wait for you to kill them. Glen having yet another close call was really not needed.

 

That was the biggest fail in the episode.  There was way too much milling around of zombies.  How many separate groups just stood around in the middle of the horde having conversations?  And two out of three groups weren't even using zombie guts to cover their scent.  Weren't the zombies busting down walls and doors and windows in the mid season finale and that's why they had to do the zombie gut trek in the first place? 

 

It completely killed the tension several times.