S01.E01: Pilot

[that one guy]

I liked the character, don't typically watch procedurals so not sure whether to stick with it. I've been annoyed recently by shows with great plots and world-building that haven't bothered to develop characters, so it's nice to have a couple of strong, well-defined personalities front and center.

 

Just to be sort of a pedant, the Devil isn't necessarily supposed to be all that malevolent and cruel or anything. Theologically, evil has often been defined as the absence of good, not really as it's opposite. Like darkness is the opposite of light. An immortal being probably wouldn't experience much in the way of fear or greed or envy and the way they twist and distort. So he's not cruel or malevolent - he's just not interested in good. He openly states that the goal of his actions here are to find the guilty and punish them - sort of his old job. He's not about making the world a better place, and probably doesn't believe such a thing is possible. Perhaps he can't even conceive of it. He doesn't even save Chloe's life because it's the right thing to do, or out of "love" exactly - he's just been enjoying the banter, whereas previously he'd been bored. At least that's my take on the character - so I didn't mind that the Devil isn't portrayed as a badguy. Although I haven't read the comic in nearly 20 years, the TV character is somewhere in the ballpark of what I remember.

[futurechemist]

Not being a Christian, I suppose I don't have some of the preconceptions that others do, so I wasn't expecting Lucifer to be pure evil.  And Lucifer has been treated at least somewhat sympathetically in literature at least going back to Milton's Paradise Lost (if not further).  So I'm okay with this take on the character.  It also fits in with the trope that "dark is not evil".  I mean, Hades wasn't an "evil" god even if he did run the underworld.

 

So as long as the show doesn't become too much of a procedural, I'm in. It doesn't hurt that Tom Ellis is enjoyable in the role.  

 

Also, it reminds me of the 30 Rock joke TV show "God Cop"

[Mabinogia]

I will watch for that car alone. OMG that thing is stunning!

 

What I liked:

Lucifer - hot, English accent, drives that beautiful work of art, charming as hell

The barely hinted at idea that the Devil didn't necessarily choose to be evil, but that someone had to do the job and god picked him and he resents it.

The therapist. I love the actress and I think the character could be quite fun

 

What I didn't like:

Everything to do with Chloe.

 

I'm on the fence about the procedural aspect. I like procedurals so long as they also have a good extended storyline, which so far seems to be Lucifer quitting his job because he really never wanted it in the first place.

 

I just wish it wasn't so painfully obvious that they were going to go all Castle and play will they won't they with Lucy and Chloe. I wish they'd go SVU and have them just be BFF partners instead, but that ain't gonna happen. It's just too painfully by the numbers.

[BooBear]

If the Devil looks and sounds like Tom Ellis, I would happily join Linda in buying a ticket to Pound Town. He's basically what you would get if a young Jeremy Northam were channeling Tim Curry from Rocky Horror, which is a combination I heartily approve of.

The actor is amazing. I agree he reminded me of "evil" Mr. Knightly. However, I must have watched Rosemary's baby too many times because the idea of sex with the devil (evil horned devil) kind of iks me, and also, what if he gets people preggers? Will we have a whole bunch of Damien's running around? That said

 

They seem to be brushing up on a conceit I've been considering for a while - that Lucifer isn't so much the Father of Lies as he is the Teller of Truths.  I mean he's not human so he doesn't really give much of a crap about about human things but lies are weak sauce, and the truth is potent.  Satan is powerful not because he causes evil but because he exposes it, in the only place it can truly reside, inside humans.

 

This characterization might work better for me and I hope is they way they go. With regard to the cop I am sure you know people that aren't particularly susceptible to lure and just aren't the type that would have anything drawn out of them.  Not that they are so saintly but it just isn't their bag. Too practical.

 

One massive problem for me was the cop's kid. That could get "tv network" annoying and the kid looked NOTHING like her parents. I actually don't even understand the point of the ex husband and kid.

Edited January 27, 2016 by BooBear

[Actionmage]

I also don't see any chemistry between Lucifer and the female cop.

 

 

I just wish it wasn't so painfully obvious that they were going to go all Castle and play will they won't they with Lucy and Chloe. I wish they'd go SVU and have them just be BFF partners instead, but that ain't gonna happen. It's just too painfully by the numbers.

 

 

 

My read on the leads is  that Lucifer is intrigued, but not sexually, by Chloe. Chloe, a "pariah" in her corner of the PD, is not looking to bed this nutjob who claims to be Lucifer Morningstar, aka The Devil. She gives him some room because Beatrice/Trixie likes him. She has enough on her plate with Trixie and the PD and her asshole  ex-husband who also works for the PD.

 

Neither are unable to tell the other is hot. Lucifer remembered her nude scene and was appreciative, for gravy sake. She can see her ex is getting territorial over this guy who has no time for the ex's antics. ( Ex:" I don't know whether to punch you or shoot you." Lucifer: "Surprise me.")

 

In a TV landscape where shows are pairing up leads no matter the premise, I think that this one isn't and it was refreshing.  They have more to their lives than looking for a hook-up. Besides, that's what Dr. Linda is for. *g*

[dargosmydaddy]

 

One massive problem for me was the cop's kid. That could get "tv network" annoying and the kid looked NOTHING like her parents. I actually don't even understand the point of the ex husband and kid.

I have a low tolerance for TV kids, but I thought she was adorable, and I liked her interactions with Lucifer.

[GenieinTX]

I will watch for that car alone. OMG that thing is stunning!

 

What I liked:

Lucifer - hot, English accent, drives that beautiful work of art, charming as hell

The barely hinted at idea that the Devil didn't necessarily choose to be evil, but that someone had to do the job and god picked him and he resents it.

The therapist. I love the actress and I think the character could be quite fun

 

What I didn't like:

Everything to do with Chloe.

 

...

 

I just wish it wasn't so painfully obvious that they were going to go all Castle and play will they won't they with Lucy and Chloe. I wish they'd go SVU and have them just be BFF partners instead, but that ain't gonna happen. It's just too painfully by the numbers.

 

 

So much this.  All of this.  I love Lucifer being devilishly charming and taking whoever and whatever he wants.  I have absolutely zero interest in having him fall for straight laced cop and trying to be better for her blah blah blah.  I'm in until then. 

[Rickster]

Apropos of nothing in particular, this and the X Files are the only shows I can think of that are not close captioned. I wonder why. Is this a trend for Fox shos?

[Sandman87]

Another note on the DCU source material: One of the storylines in Hellblazer made it very clear that their version of Lucifer and The Devil are not the same entity. The Devil was already in Hell when Lucifer fell from heaven.

[HalcyonDays]

Rewatched again tonight. Still loved it. Tom Ellis is amazing, Pilot Lucifer is very much Rick Castle meets Evil Ichabod Crane. Very smarmy, snarky, charming, very smug and assure of himself yet out of place. But at the same time, the supernatural, some different type of snark, charming, strange, utterly Britishness, sexiness of the main character actually mixed in some Sleepy Hollow.

 

All three shows had/have a female detective cop irritated at the behaviour of a strange/weirdly named/confident male who knows things, but antagonises them, yet intrigues them, and helps them solve cases, yet they are not detectives or police or any investigative unit. Hell, the TV show Forever (mourns what could have been) had the same thing - An English "supernaturally" strange man partnering up with a female detective trying to prove herself and solve cases.

 

But I'm a Lush. A lush when a gorgeous British Man appears on screen, so you know...I'm totally in and looking forward to the next episode!

[Lonesome Rhodes]

That was fun.

 

My favorite moment, by far, was when he literally threw the daughter on Chloe's bed as though she were carrying the plague.  He honestly, truly, does not like children.  Yes!  If they manage to keep this relationship on these terms, I will be supremely shocked, and happy.

 

Lucifer's personal "hell" in this show is that he never gets to meet anyone who is "good" who is able to fully resist his charms.  It's his version of Diogenes looking for one honest man - doomed.  The instant Chloe gives in, the series is over.  I am virtually certain I will roll my eyes at the number of times it will appear she will give in, only to back away.

 

I loved seeing Jimmy Pankow's brother in this ep.  I was stunned that he's adopted Jimmy's hair style, which took me back to many great Chicago concerts I've attended.

[jhlipton]

Is anyone else tired of the jackass antihero? I mean, that description of the solicits could have been taken from any drama pilot of the last 10 years.

See also, characters who use ethnic slurs but have no problem working with their nonwhite friends and colleagues

 

The overt racism (Hip-hop sucks, but blues, which white folks stole from black folks is great! And the only black humans we see are "hip-hop thugs".) really pissed me off.  That's not from the character -- that's from the show.  One more display like that and I'm out.

 

Apropos of nothing in particular, this and the X Files are the only shows I can think of that are not close captioned. I wonder why. Is this a trend for Fox shos?

 

It was closed-captioned of Charter Cable in Los Angeles.

[tennisgurl]

I think I actually liked this better then I thought I would. I mean, its no Sleepy Hallow pilot episode, but this could be fun.

 

I have no issue with Lucifer as main character. They are clearly drawing more on the Sandman version of the character (more of an amoral, snarky jail warden who is kind of stuck in a job he does not want to do) then on any kind of "Devil as Hitler times 1000" kind of mythology. I can get behind that. Could lead to some interesting developments, both morally, and how the cosmic balance in this world works. 

 

Chloe is not super interesting right now, pretty much your typical female TV cop, but with the acting thing as her "quirk". Hopefully she will get better.

 

Always happy to see Naevia from Spartacus around!

[Bruinsfan]

Another note on the DCU source material: One of the storylines in Hellblazer made it very clear that their version of Lucifer and The Devil are not the same entity. The Devil was already in Hell when Lucifer fell from heaven.

They may be walking back from that. In the just-started new Lucifer comic, Gabriel is speaking to and blaming Lucifer as if the latter were the one involved in his fall from grace. And Lucifer references John Constantine and Chantinelle, but makes no mention of the First of the Fallen. Maybe he set up a crude and completely malevolent alternate persona as an amusement, or a way to blow off steam when feeling grumpy, and archangels are in on the deception but humans and the rank and file of Hell take it at face value?

[Kanner]

I liked it.  This version of Lucifer definitely works for me.  I like that he tells everyone who he is and it is not an issue.  I am ok with him not being super evil.  My take of the devil has always been more does what he wants and doesn't care about good or evil.

 

Shallow note - Tom Ellis also definitely works for me.

 

As someone who usually doesn't like TV kids - Trixie didn't bother me at all.

[Gigi43]

Okay, I'm bias because I sat through most of Rush for Tom Ellis and he has the accent here and all plus DB Woodside... so, there's a good chance I'd return next week at least no matter what it was like, but I think I like it enough on it's own to return anyway. The show does have possibilities that are interesting, but, it's Fox and those possibilities have nothing to do with Castle-esque aspect of the show so the ball may very well be dropped. I think I might be most interested in if Lucifer will end up considering going back to Hell just because he's seeing just how many people really need to be punished. After all, he didn't want the Producer to die because as it stands now, he's not going to suffer since Lucifer isn't there to see to it. 

 

I've heard Atheist argue Lucifer as a reason not to worship God. How do you worship something that deems someone bad, and then doesn't show Mercy as He claims too, then goes and gave humans the capacity to do evil and punishes them for it, etc. So Lucifer actually questioning if he's actually evil or not is an interesting concept to explore... but again it's Fox. Someone mentioned in a previous post it seems like one show was pitched to Fox but Fox turned that into a cop show, and I think how much all of that is explored the next few weeks will prove or disprove (probably prove) how accurate of an assessment that is.

 

I will like Chloe for as long as she isn't attracted to Lucifer. So, it probably won't be much longer but I'll her for as long as that it.

 

AnnaLynne McCord ends up annoying me in any show she's on for more than one episode (Nip/Tuck, Dallas 2.0 for examples), so I was relieved she didn't last long. I don't actually think she's talentless, there's just something... bothersome about her. It's hard to describe. Rachel Harris, however, is always a gem.

 

Does anyone know if "Too Vile"'s house was used on another show? It looked really familiar.

[Bruinsfan]

I feel like I've seen it or someplace really similar on one of those basic cable dramas like Royal Pains or The Starter Wife.

 

McCord has always struck me as a malevolent Barbie doll come to life. She may actually be a nice person, but none of her acting roles have ever done anything to dispel that impression.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Is Lucifer Sinfully Good?
The fallen angel has to leave Hell to remind everyone to play nicely. Buh-what?

[topanga]

I liked it. I see the Sleepy Hollow comparison, but it actually reminded me of a sexier (or raunchier) version of Forever, at least in terms of the pilot... you have the immortal British guy, the no-nonsense female detective, and both leads getting shot at the end of the episode... though I appreciate that Lucifer doesn't try to keep his immortality a secret (and actually flaunts it). The (when) will she find out element gets old quick.

I enjoyed the Pilot, but it entire time I watched it, I couldn't help but view it as a mash-up of Sleepy Hollow, Forever, and Castle,  With a little Psych thrown in. And maybe some Minority Report (which is already Sleepy Hollow-inspired).  Some of the same themes, enjoyable though they are, that I've seen over and over: The leads initially don't like each other--more specifically, the woman finds the man annoying--but they eventually will become friends and maybe lovers. The female cop reluctantly lets the non-cop tag along with her to crime scenes, and he eventually becomes a crucial part of her solving crimes. There's another cop in the department who's skeptical of this non-officer being so involved with active investigations. There might or might not be something supernatural going on.

 

 

I've heard Atheist argue Lucifer as a reason not to worship God. How do you worship something that deems someone bad, and then doesn't show Mercy as He claims too, then goes and gave humans the capacity to do evil and punishes them for it, etc. So Lucifer actually questioning if he's actually evil or not is an interesting concept to explore... but again it's Fox. Someone mentioned in a previous post it seems like one show was pitched to Fox but Fox turned that into a cop show, and I think how much all of that is explored the next few weeks will prove or disprove (probably prove) how accurate of an assessment that is.

I agree. The show is dipping its toe into the waters of good vs. evil, but I somehow I don't think it will end up delving too deeply. Which is a shame because issues like good vs. evil, free will vs. intercession, punishment vs. mercy are all very interesting. But the show's tone feels to light too explore them with any seriousness.

[mommalib]

I liked it. It was fun and entertaining and the chemistry between Lucifer and the female cop is amazing. They seem to bounce off each other really well.

[mommalib]

My read on the leads is  that Lucifer is intrigued, but not sexually, by Chloe. Chloe, a "pariah" in her corner of the PD, is not looking to bed this nutjob who claims to be Lucifer Morningstar, aka The Devil. She gives him some room because Beatrice/Trixie likes him. She has enough on her plate with Trixie and the PD and her asshole  ex-husband who also works for the PD.

 

Neither are unable to tell the other is hot. Lucifer remembered her nude scene and was appreciative, for gravy sake. She can see her ex is getting territorial over this guy who has no time for the ex's antics. ( Ex:" I don't know whether to punch you or shoot you." Lucifer: "Surprise me.")

 

In a TV landscape where shows are pairing up leads no matter the premise, I think that this one isn't and it was refreshing.  They have more to their lives than looking for a hook-up. Besides, that's what Dr. Linda is for. *g*

They may not be paired right away but at some point in the future they probably will.

[Bruinsfan]

The overt racism (Hip-hop sucks, but blues, which white folks stole from black folks is great! And the only black humans we see are "hip-hop thugs".) really pissed me off.  That's not from the character -- that's from the show.  One more display like that and I'm out.

If white people stole the blues from black people they did a poor job of it. When someone says blues I think of Robert Johnson (appropriate for this show's subject matter!), Etta James, B.B. King, and Bo Diddley. Stevie Ray Vaughn is the only white musician I can think of that I'd classify as a blues legend. And I share the Devil's disdain for hip-hop, excepting Salt-N-Pepa.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Bruinsfan

[spaulding]

I will watch for that car alone. OMG that thing is stunning!

 

What I liked:

Lucifer - hot, English accent, drives that beautiful work of art, charming as hell

The barely hinted at idea that the Devil didn't necessarily choose to be evil, but that someone had to do the job and god picked him and he resents it.

The therapist. I love the actress and I think the character could be quite fun

What I didn't like:

Everything to do with Chloe.

 

Yes! to all.

 

The car is stunning. 

 

Tom Ellis is stunning.  I do like naughty antiheroes, but he's not the Big Bad.

 

Rachael Harris is hilarious.  I'm guessing that Lucifer is getting therapy. 

 

Chloe makes my eye itch.  German was on Hawaii 5-0, and she was generally not appreciated by the viewers.  The showrunners tried to make her happen, but it didn't work.  She left after one or two seasons.  Didn't like the character on Hawaii 5-O.  Not rooting for the character here.  Not a fan of the actresses.

 

Her constant bitchface is already getting old.

 

The daughter is a cutie tho.  And a better actress.

 

Another note on the DCU source material: One of the storylines in Hellblazer made it very clear that their version of Lucifer and The Devil are not the same entity. The Devil was already in Hell when Lucifer fell from heaven.

 

I was confused when Lucifier asks, "Did my Father/father send you?"  Was he talking about God or the Devil/Satan?

Edited January 29, 2016 by spaulding

[KaveDweller]

I was confused when Lucifier asks, "Did my Father/father send you?"  Was he talking about God or the Devil/Satan?

 

I was confused about that too.  Because Lucifer is supposed to be the Devil, so there shouldn't be a more evil person above him.  Unless there is a bunch of devils that report to a super-devil...kind of like how there are a lot of angels, but God is at the top of them all.  

 

It would be kind of interesting to suggest that God is actually somehow in charge of hell/the Devil. But it seems this show is just going to be a procedural with a twist and not some deep character study about good versus evil.

[Gigi43]

Since God created Lucifer (and all the angels) only to cast him out of Heaven in the Bible I assume they mean God. I don't know about the comic book world this was based off of though maybe it's different? I tend to think not since Lucifer mentioned being deemed evil.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Gigi43

[BW Manilowe]

Yes! to all.

The car is stunning.

Tom Ellis is stunning. I do like naughty antiheroes, but he's not the Big Bad.

Rachael Harris is hilarious. I'm guessing that Lucifer is getting therapy.

Chloe makes my eye itch. German was on Hawaii 5-0, and she was generally not appreciated by the viewers. The showrunners tried to make her happen, but it didn't work. She left after one or two seasons. Didn't like the character on Hawaii 5-O. Not rooting for the character here. Not a fan of the actresses.

Her constant bitchface is already getting old.

The daughter is a cutie tho. And a better actress.

I was confused when Lucifier asks, "Did my Father/father send you?" Was he talking about God or the Devil/Satan?

I actually liked Lauren German on Hawaii Five-0, & I like her here too. So I don't think/agree that *all* the viewers disliked her there (which I felt you were implying). She was only on H50 in their S2, which was the 2011-2012 season, & only in Eps 202-216 (15 eps); her character was fired by the Governor in Ep 216 & not included in the last 7 eps of H50 S2 (217-223). She also wasn't in the S2 premiere ep (201) because that ep tied up most of the S1 finale cliffhangers & her character wasn't introduced until Ep 202.

Edited January 30, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[Johnny Dollar]

It was an OK show. Young Sofia Vergara was nice to look at.

[jhlipton]

I actually liked Lauren German on Hawaii Five-0, & I like her here too. So I don't think/agree that *all* the viewers disliked her there (which I felt you were implying). 

 

Also, the people who hated her also hated all the other women written into and out of the show, complaining that they took away from the "core four".  They didn't have the same problem with Grover or Jerry.  I leave you to draw your own conclusions...

Edited January 29, 2016 by jhlipton

[henripootel]

Since God created Lucifer (and all the angels) only to cast him out of Heaven in the Bible I assume they mean God.

I'd be pretty surprised if he meant anything else.  Wasn't Lucifer one of god's favorites?  Before, I mean.

[Sandman87]

I was confused when Lucifier asks, "Did my Father/father send you?"  Was he talking about God or the Devil/Satan?

Lucifer was an angel who fell, which would make God his father.

[Anela]

I liked it (and I wasn't expecting to). I did do a mental eye-roll at the devil being/sounding English, because it seems as though we're always cast as the evil ones, but I found him charming as well. I'll watch again. 

[Sandman87]

Maybe the producers were inspired by "The Devil is an Englishman" for that character choice. I wonder If they'll work that song into the show.

[Former Nun]

When someone says blues I think of Robert Johnson (appropriate for this show's subject matter!),

 

 

When I say "blues," I mean the real blues...from fifty years ago or more--or at least sounding the same. 

Are all the women going to be the sexy-slutty type?  Is Lucifer always going to have that passe` nine-o'clock shadow?  Bring some originality and I'll be back.

[emma675]

I found it charming and entertaining enough to record the second episode. The lead is hot, DB Woodside is hot, the little kid was cute and not too annoying (yet), and I tolerated the main female lead.

[storyskip]

Just to weight in on the source material side of things and the "Father" comments.

 

In the DC comic [btw spoilers if you haven't read it] the angle taken is that God had a plan.  Part of his plan involved then concept of Hell and Lucifer as the ruler in Hell, without Lucifer really having much of a say.  When we catch up with Lucifer, he's decided that he wants what "Father" gave humans, Free Will.  The choice to make his own destiny, which means NOT following "Father's" plan of being ruler in Hell.  The angelic host is thrown into a bit of a tizy by this because (among other things) Free Will is a gift "Father" gave humans, not his angelic children.  They (as angels) are supposed to keep following the script.

 

To which Lucifer says "Nope.  I like this Free Will idea, oh and have you all not noticed that "Father" hasn't been around for a few millennium?  Peace I'm out like a Free Will trout."

 

So from the DC comic perspective the argument is really over Free Will and God gave it to humans, rather than angels and Lucifer's gotten tired of that deal and wants Free Will himself.

 

Anyway, I like Tom Ellis, the hints of his issues on the heavenly/hell side of things and I like the child and the therapist.  Chloe ... I like the idea of her but like someone else has said, I'm not interested in buying into what the actress is selling.

Edited January 31, 2016 by storyskip

[spaulding]

Also, the people who hated her also hated all the other women written into and out of the show, complaining that they took away from the "core four".  They didn't have the same problem with Grover or Jerry.  I leave you to draw your own conclusions...

 

I stopped watching H5O while German was still there.  Catherine was there at the time, and I vaguely remember her being well-liked.  Personally, I liked her a lot.  (I don't know what has happened with the show since S2.)

 

I was confused about that too.  Because Lucifer is supposed to be the Devil, so there shouldn't be a more evil person above him.  Unless there is a bunch of devils that report to a super-devil...kind of like how there are a lot of angels, but God is at the top of them all.

 

I thought that it was strange.  Lucifer doesn't come off as the Big Bad, so I assumed that there's the Devil and there's Lucifer. 

 

It reminds me of Milton's Paradise Lost.  There were still a bunch of evil devils, I guess, but there is a Big Bad that rules all the other devils.

 

Plus, Lucifer says his "Father."  I thought that it was weird to use a familial term for God.  I would think that Lucifer would have rejected God in the same way that he sees God having rejected him.

 

Lucifer was an angel who fell, which would make God his father.

 

In the DC comic [btw spoilers if you haven't read it] the angle taken is that God had a plan.  Part of his plan involved then concept of Hell and Lucifer as the ruler in Hell, without Lucifer really having much of a say.  When we catch up with Lucifer, he's decided that he wants what "Father" gave humans, Free Will.  The choice to make his own destiny, which means NOT following "Father's" plan of being ruler in Hell.  The angelic host is thrown into a bit of a tizy by this because (among other things) Free Will is a gift "Father" gave humans, not his angelic children.  They (as angels) are supposed to keep following the script.

 

To which Lucifer says "Nope.  I like this Free Will idea, oh and have you all not noticed that "Father" hasn't been around for a few millennium?  Peace I'm out like a Free Will trout."

 

So from the DC comic perspective the argument is really over Free Will and God gave it to humans, rather than angels and Lucifer's gotten tired of that deal and wants Free Will himself.

 

Thanks for the clarification and background about the Vertigo version of Lucifer. 

 

I never read anything from Vertigo, but I always got the impression that it based a lot of this stuff on Paradise Lost.  Satan argues that he wanted free will and was cast out of Heaven after the rebellion.

Edited January 31, 2016 by spaulding

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

 

 

Please remember this topic exists to discuss the episode, if you want to discuss a separate topic that arises because of the episode please take it to a more appropriate thread. If one does not exist, create it.

Also please be mindful of using inflammatory language or phrases in your posts that may be viewed as offensive.

In this instance, all off topic posts have been hidden.

 

Please ensure you stay on course, having to hide, edit and/or delete posts, gives me a devil of a headache.

 

Thank you.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Didn't Lucifer use his "confess your deepest secrets" on scummy record producer at his wedding, and it failed to get him to confess that he arranged PopStar's murder? Maybe Lucifer's mojo isn't as strong as he thought? 

 

Also, how would the killers know to do a driveby then and there? I can get that they would know (maybe) that PopStar would be at Lux, but there's not really a way for them to know she'd be outside.

[peachmangosteen]

This show is exactly the type of garbage I enjoy. I'm pretty pumped about it tbh.

[HalcyonDays]

Didn't Lucifer use his "confess your deepest secrets" on scummy record producer at his wedding, and it failed to get him to confess that he arranged PopStar's murder? Maybe Lucifer's mojo isn't as strong as he thought? 

 

Lucifer did say the more complex the person, the harder it is to read them, so I guess Creepy Record Producer was more complex, and the bride was much less. However, Dr Linda, he was able to get info from her pretty easily, but he did call her complex, so who knows.

 

Also, how would the killers know to do a driveby then and there? I can get that they would know (maybe) that PopStar would be at Lux, but there's not really a way for them to know she'd be outside.

 

I assumed the followed her limo and watched her go into Lux, then waited outside until she came out of the club. There may not be a back exit that they have access to, to watch her.

 

I'm looking foward to seeing how Dr. Linda is going to respond/reply/offer advice to someone who actually thinks/claims that they are The Devil.

[Mabinogia]

 

However, Dr Linda, he was able to get info from her pretty easily, but he did call her complex, so who knows.

I imagine part of it is how badly you want to guard your secret. Dr. Linda seemed pretty ready to give it up once she knew she'd get to sleep with him, not that I blame her. Killer guy had a very strong reason to fight the charm with everything he had. It also helped that Lucifer became easily distracted by the much easier target. I'm thinking Cop Lady (is it Chloe? I feel like it's Chloe.) is too freaking dull to have any juicy secrets. I mean, her being a soft core porn star is probably hethe only interesting thing about her and everyone knows it already.

[solea]

Watched the pilot again and two things I picked up this time. 1) D.B Woodside uttering the word "demons". Flashback! Especially since he hasn't aged one iota since Buffy. 2) At the very end, when Lucifer and DBW are talking in the street, he calls him "Lucy". Too funny.

And oh how I envy Dr. Linda.

[xyzzy]

I'm always a fan of this sort of take on Lucifer. There are a bunch of traditions involving the devil, but my favorite has always been the one that puts God in charge of him. He falls and goes through all this craziness only to still basically be working for The Man, just in a new capacity. Good fun.

 

I find it kind of funny that the name Lucy gives out is redundant. The word "Lucifer" means Morningstar (or Dawnbringer), so it's like his name is Sol Sun or Luna Moon or something equally ridiculous. Details amuse me.

 

I'd like him to have just a little more of an edge. He definitely seems to be an "all  in good fun" type, which is fine, but I thought the scene where he was dangling the ex over the balcony would have been more intense if he was less physically forceful and more emotionally forceful. He's already displayed this incredible power he has that makes people want to tell him the truth. It would have been interesting to see a scene where telling Lucy the truth seemed to be emotionally difficult to the point where it seems almost physically painful. Almost all of the other truth-telling was played off as being a shock to the truth-teller, but everyone seemed to respond to their revelations with a vaguely amused air. I want to see the truth hurt the teller once in awhile.

 

So is Lucy intrigued with Chloe because she's apparently immune to his aura? Meh. There's always room for a Mary Sue I guess.

[Gigi43]

Didn't Lucifer use his "confess your deepest secrets" on scummy record producer at his wedding, and it failed to get him to confess that he arranged PopStar's murder? Maybe Lucifer's mojo isn't as strong as he thought? 

 

Also, how would the killers know to do a driveby then and there? I can get that they would know (maybe) that PopStar would be at Lux, but there's not really a way for them to know she'd be outside.

 

Well at one point he did specify to Chloe he doesn't draw out sins, but deep desires and such. So while the producer knew he had killed DeLilah and didn't want anyone to know, he probably wasn't riddled with guilt over it that needed unburdening. It seems a bit convoluted but I guess if it wasn't then he would be able to get a confession out of anyone immediately thus greatly cutting down on the investigation portion of the show.

 

Watched the pilot again and two things I picked up this time. 1) D.B Woodside uttering the word "demons". Flashback! Especially since he hasn't aged one iota since Buffy. 2) At the very end, when Lucifer and DBW are talking in the street, he calls him "Lucy". Too funny.

And oh how I envy Dr. Linda.

 

Lucifer had just told Maze (Mayse?) about being a woman ironically named Faith, right before DB appeared in the club and when he did I couldn't help but muse, "oh damn he heard Faith's with someone else!"

[Bruinsfan]

What really impresses me is that Ellis still manages to be charming while positively oozing smugness in every scene. Usually characters who do that make me wish objects I throw at the TV screen could actually harm the fictional characters (cases in point, Ryker on Star Trek: The Next Generation, Ling on Ally McBeal, Spike on Buffy, DiNozzo on NCIS, Ricky Gervais on everything he's ever appeared in).

[blixie]

I have to say the most surprising thing to me about the pilot is how much I love Trixie, most TV kids suck, but I kind of hope they continue the bit where Trixie loves Lucifer and he barely tolerates her.

 

 

What really impresses me is that Ellis still manages to be charming while positively oozing smugness in every scene.

 

I have now watched the pilot three times entirely because of this dudes charm factor, I don't know how or if he can maintain it, but yeah I'm loving it. I still hope the show goes more in a non-procedural, and more Angel war and Free Will debate sort of way.

[CoyoteBlue]

I have now watched the pilot three times entirely because of this dudes charm factor, I don't know how or if he can maintain it, but yeah I'm loving it

 

Maybe it's a Welsh thing. Like Peter Wingfield as Highlander's Methos or Gareth David-Lloyd's Ianto Jones. :)

Edited February 1, 2016 by CoyoteBlue

[storyskip]

Maybe it's a Welsh thing. Like Peter Wingfield as Highlander's Methos or Gareth David-Lloyd's Ianto Jones. :)

 

Given that I also adore both of these actors and their characters, and now Mr. Ellis?  I second this theory! :)

[roomtorome]

Silly stuff but the lead - Lucifer - is fun in the part.  At least as the charm to pull off even this poorly written show - he does have charisma and pulls off the "devilish" aspects of the character - he might be kind of fun to have a drink with - but the boring guy who shows up to growl at him about going back to father is a real drag - 

 

It is a shame it is yet another procedural - they could have had more fun with this lead actor with something more fun and creative.  Real shame.  

[slayer2]

 

The overt racism (Hip-hop sucks, but blues, which white folks stole from black folks is great! And the only black humans we see are "hip-hop thugs".) really pissed me off.  That's not from the character -- that's from the show.  One more display like that and I'm out.

 

Agreed, and so glad you mentioned it. I was just saying today that I don't trust anyone who rules out entire genres of music, you mean to tell me THE DEVIL of all non-people can't find some common ground in hip-hop? Crap! I think the problem here is that the show is trying to have its cake and eat it too. It wants to go the whole Anne Rice, Memnoch the Devil "God is making me be evil and I'm tired of this game" route and say things like "you humans" and such but at the same time it makes it clear that Lucifer sees himself as a British white man as opposed to that simply being a vessel to carry his angelic (now demonic) form. 

 

I was wondering if the episode would get around to explaining why Lucifer chose a white, British guy as his vessel/human form. The body, the accent etc but it seems the show believes that he IS that man. I prefer the way Supernatural does is with angels and demons possessing bodies because their true forms are such that human eyes would go blind if they saw them, this way is rather cheap and procedural (much like the show) and he does lack a certain ambiguity. He doesn't have to be evil as many upthread pointed out but he could at least be ambiguous. I agree with the poster who said that Mark did it better although my Mark is Mark Pellegrino (also from Supernatural), but that guy is always working so no chance in hell of getting him (pun intended).

 

I also agree with whomever said that they weren't feeling the female cop, it's all very paint by numbers in that respect. I like Maz and of course I always love DB Woodside and that Doc can stay all day long but the female cop and the fact that Lucifer (as a white guy as opposed to a demon) has to explain that he doesn't hate black people just some of their music just pulls me right out of the show and into a narrative written by a Julie Plec or something. I was with it until then but that coupled with the boring sidekick cop and the soon to be procedural drama crap tells me it's probably not for me. I'd rather go dig up Rosewood and start watching that show,

 

Wrt the "Father" questions. God is Lucifer's father because Lucifer is said to be a fallen angel and yes (as someone upthread asked) he was the favourite, preferred angel before he "fell from grace" and created hell. So when he says father he refers to God as Lucifer was said to be the most beautiful angel in the heavens before he fell.

Edited February 2, 2016 by slayer2