S04.E00: The Abominable Bride

[Tara Ariano]

In 1895 London, Holmes and Watson tackle a ghostly case: the apparition of a woman who committed suicide seems to be on a revenge-inspired rampage.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

New episode description!

 

Welcome to 'Sherlock' in 1895! It's the late Victorian period and the world's most famous consulting detective and his best friend lived in a Baker Street of steam trains, hansom cabs, top hats and frock-coats. Some things, though, remain reassuringly the same – friendship, adventure, and especially, MURDER. Thomas Ricoletti is a little surprised to see his wife dressed in her old wedding gown, and quite so, since just a few hours earlier she had taken her own life. Now Mrs Ricoletti's ghost appears to be prowling the streets with an unslakeable thirst for revenge. From fog-shrouded Limehouse to the bowels of a ruined church—Holmes, Watson, and their friends must use all their cunning—to combat an enemy seemingly from beyond the grave and the final, shocking truth about... the Abominable Bride!

[M. Darcy]

I also bought a ticket to see it in a movie theatre.  Heh, even though by Tuesday, I am sure I will have watched this about a million times. 

[roomtorome]

Oh, boy.  Seeing them in their original time is such a high.  Love the show but I have been addicted to the original stories for decades, periodically re-reading and then imagining Victorian England while I do.

[Brattinella]

This makes me SO HAPPY!!!!  Simultaneous in UK and US, too!  *smiling ear to ear*

[ApathyMonger]

That was fun. Now to wait another year for the next episode...

[Lebanna]

It was a lot of fun, but a bit pointless.

[photo fox]

Well, that was... something.

[AimingforYoko]

Well, that was almost Inception-like. The first clue was when Sherlock referrred to Mrs. Riccoletti as 'he'.

[LilJen]

Whee!! The mind palace returned (doped up, this time)!

[SoSueMe]

I can't decide if I love it because of the trippy, artsy aspect or in spite of it...

[TheOtherOne]

I wish they had left it a one-off unconnected to the modern day characters/storylines. I was really enjoying it until the point with the endless Moriarty conversation, which led to the present-day reveal. Which was actually fun at first, but after the explanation of the mystery and the secret society of women, the whole thing just slowly petered out (and coming after last year's Doctor Who Christmas Special, Moffat's already done the Inception bit too recently for it to feel anything but old). Was definitely fun for most of the running time, but by the end I was ready for it to be over.

[Vella]

Well that was terrible.  Boring, flat, uninspired.

 

Couldn't just have an actual "Sherlock solves a mystery in his own time" story?  Too damn busy trying to be clever, clever, clever. Always the curse with this show.

[tennisgurl]

So...pretty sure I liked that? Going to need to think about this one a bit more. 

 

Inception meets Penny Dreadful meets a drug trip? 

[elle]

Oh, boy.  Seeing them in their original time is such a high.  Love the show but I have been addicted to the original stories for decades, periodically re-reading and then imagining Victorian England while I do.

I agree!  I would have been happy staying in Victorian England the whole time.  I did have a laugh at the Reichenbach Falls mind palace with "there's always two" and Watson's assertion that it "was his turn".

 

The one thing that did take me out of the Victorian scene was that version of Mycroft.  Definitely got a Sydney Greenstreet vibe from him, even sounded a bit like him.

 

 (and coming after last year's Doctor Who Christmas Special, Moffat's already done the Inception bit too recently for it to feel anything but old). Was definitely fun for most of the running time, but by the end I was ready for it to be over.

Ah, so Moffat was more involved than just a creater credit?  I definitely had a flashback to the penultimate episode of this season's Dr. Who when Holmes took the dive off the cliff.  I expected him to dive into the water at the very end, not to wake up as one is said to do from a dream.

[kmm49]

Too confusing and I agree just pointless. What a waste of Moriarty. Totally underused. I also hate the mind palace. I thought I was seeing a simple 1800s Sherlock which I was enjoying for about the first 30 minutes but I feel sorry for those who tuned into this show for the first time tonight. How lost must they be. They showed what happened on the series since 2010! Anyway, wasn't hating 1800s Sherlock at all but they lost me with the whole back and forth. Plus it just wasn't that interesting.

[TexasGal]

I really enjoyed it, until the last scene. I liked seeing all the characters in Victorian dress. Although, was anyone surprised at the "reveal" about the coroner being Molly? But that last extra twist made me roll my eyes.

Oh, and the line about him always surviving a jump. Bah.

Edited January 2, 2016 by TexasGal

[alias1]

For the most part, I thought it was a fun ride.  I agree it went sort of flat at the end. But I enjoyed all of the tongue-in-cheek stuff. Loved Molly Hooper.

Edited January 2, 2016 by SierraMist

[AimingforYoko]

There were some great Sherlock zingers:
"Please give her a few lines in the next narrative, Watson. That woman has the ability to starve us to death."
"She gets a bit hysterical." "Nonsense, she has a keen intellect and great insight. She has the ability to see worlds where the rest of us see nothing." And how do you deduce that?" "She married you, didn't she?"

[Autumn]

The Victorian bits were interesting but once it became clear it was just part of a self-induced drug trip I zoned out.  The show is becoming too self referential.  They are relying too much on  meta references instead of interesting story.  Once it was clear it was a dream there was no dramatic tension.  It didn't matter if Holmes fell off the falls it was just a dream.  It didn't matter that he overdosed since it was intentional and he would have calibrated just how much to take.  It wouldn't have mattered if Moriarty was really there because they would have just talked each other to death.  I would hate to have been watching with a new viewer.

[Eolivet]

Well, I absolutely loved that. Psychological thrillers are my crack, and this gave me UK Life on Mars flashbacks (a man trapped inside his own head) in the best way. Plus, Cumberbatch and Freeman are just. so. good -- in any time period. I thought it was well-written with some really excellent dialogue, and all the tongue-in-cheek winks to the "original" cast in Victorian times were fun. This is such a master class in acting, I don't even mind that we only get it every other year -- for me, it's worth the wait!

 

And I was SO happy to see it on the same day as the UK -- as others have said: thank you, PBS (and the BBC!)

[Actionmage]

It was enjoyable until the need to force it into the Moriarity thing. I love Andrew Scott and his take on Moriarity, but I idly wondered if he's starting to get bored with the one note he seems regulated to now.

 

The script was fun, largely, but it also seemed a bit impressed with itself.

 

Mr. Gatiss, please, do not do that fat suit/make-up again. That was tough to watch and I refused to watch Victorian Mycroft noisily eat. I am not some svelte thing, but that was almost Pythonesque, just not in a good way.

 

Mary and Mrs. Hudson? Perfect. Molly and Janine? Perfect? Tim McInnerny can do whatever he pleases, Black Adder endeared him to me.

 

Again, as others have stated, I wish it had just been a Victorian take with this cast. 

 

PS: Someone give Lestrade a hug; he needs one.

[Peace 47]

I loved it. Really, truly loved it. Unlike some of you, I would have had an absolute fit if it had not been connected to the modern story at all. 2 years and no mention of the S3 cliffhanger would have sent me off a cliff. So the fact that the Victorian story only existed to compliment the modern one was right up my alley.

The pacing was great: there were times during a couple of the S3 episodes that I was checking the clock in a couple of draggy places. Here, it zipped along.

I enjoyed the psychological exploration of how terrifying Moriarty is to Sherlock. Moriarty had been haunting Sherlock since Sherlock hallucinated him at Baskerville (not to mention in the rubber room in "His Last Vow"). Here, he relied on "John" to get past the terror of it--letting John in helped him defeat Moriarty. And the acting by Andrew Scott was really great. He is such a gem.

I know some hate when I talk about this, but I also think this was an episode that further shed light on Sherlock's attraction to John. If Sherlock is not eventually, explicitly, textually revealed to be in love with John, I will eat my deerstalker. I mean, his mind was forcing a conversation with "John" (when they both were waiting for the ghost) that revolved all around Sherlock's sexuality ("impulses" and "experiences"). Sherlock is making comments before they confront the society of women about how he and John have drifted since John's marriage. His fantasy is John saving him from Moriarty. Sherlock got high before getting on that plane (before he knew about Moriarty's "return" at all) and was reading all about how John and he met for the first time. That boy is in love.

[AnnaMayWong]

Hmm. Well, that something. I usually really enjoy The Sherlock programs(rare they may be), however, this episode, not so much. It was not sufficiently developed. It was bland-- pointlessly elongated without the proper heft to sustain it. Furthermore, the 'mind palace' discussions can end, now. There has been enough discourse over that 'ability' in past episodes. Sadly, unfortunately, and reluctantly, I must say that it was a bit of a

[tankgirl73]

I loved it. The crazy trippiness and meta and too clever for its own good stuff -- that's what made me fall in love with this show in the first place.

 

So what that it was all in Sherlock's head and only actually happened over a period of about 5 real time minutes? I love Sherlock's head. Spending time in his brain, getting clues into how he works, that's not wasted time for me at all. The importance of John cannot be overstated. I disagree that he was never in any danger at the falls -- remember, he had OD'd and even precisely calculated, there's a margin of error when human biology is involved. He was teetering on the precipice, literally, of a dangerous OD. And his mental version of Moriarty was fighting with him, telling him to give up and lose. That could easily be symbolic of just giving up and dying. But what saves him? His mental version of John. Not himself -- he didn't get this big hero moment of turning the tables and defeating his enemy. He was only able to defeat his enemy with the help of his best friend, and indeed his friend did the actual final boot too. *AND* Sherlock acknowledged that Watson is actually pretty damned smart. To himself, at least.

 

Also notable -- his character inside the drug trip mind palace is utterly devoid of emotion (or at least that's his intention). Over the seasons, he has been oening himself up more and more to emotion, and this scares him I think. Note that his mental self keeps that portrait of The Woman close by.

 

And it totally makes sense that he'd be intensely bothered by Moriarty's return to life. But now he's confident that Moriarty is good and dead, and seems to know what's going on. So that definitely advances the plot, just a titsch, for next season.

 

And the dialogue was just bloody hilarious. I laughed out loud on numerous occasions. From the above-mentioned stuff with Mrs Hudson and Mary to all his snide comments, it was witty and quick and funny.

 

I loved it so much that I'm honesltly surprised to see any negative reaction at all. But, I guess that's just the nature of the beast, to each their own. :)  Moffatt can be hit or miss for different folks, I know for me he's usually either a knockout hit or a huge miss, here and with Doctor Who (more misses in Who than in Sherlock), but more often than not I love it when he goes crazy and meta and clever. :)

[Ruby25]

I loved it! Fun, funny and Cumberbatch and Freeman have such fantastic chemistry that it's always exciting to see them when another episode of this show comes around.

 

Is there any possibility of them ever bringing back Irene Adler at some point? They always mention her, but I really would like to see her again on the show somehow.

[catrox14]

That was fantastic!  Ughhh I missed THIS kind of Sherlock.  The Riechenbach Fall mindscrew kind of Sherlock.  So wonderful to see Andrew Scott again. 

 

/standing ovation

[Leia1979]

I didn't think this was going to be connected to the regular show, so I regret not re-watching the end of series three because I forgot what happened. I mostly enjoyed it (especially the running bit with Mrs. Hudson) but I would have preferred the self-contained case of the Abominable Bride within the Victorian era. For a brief moment at the waterfall, I was worried all of series three was going to be a dream and we were going all the way back to the series two finale. I started to suspect it was Sherlock's dream when random modern references crept in (like "virus in the data").

 

Victorian Mycroft was creepy, but I loved the inclusion of Molly working in a man's world.

 

Fun fact: Amanda Abbington (Mary) was also on Mr. Selfridge, which had a running storyline about suffragists in series one.

[xqueenfrostine]

This special/episode definitely wasn't my favorite excursion into the Sherlock-verse. I really liked both the "classic" and "present day" storyline, but I didn't really like the way the two blended together. I'm fine with Sherlock's mind palace as a plot device, but the more the characters in the elsewhere version of London showed awareness that their world didn't exist outside of Sherlock's mind the less that part of the story worked for me.

[darkestboy]

I liked it. It was daft enough fun and the mix between Victorian times and trying to figure out whether or not Moriarty was actually alived worked better than expected.

 

It felt like the cast themselves were having a lot of fun and I did find Mycroft and Molly quite amusing as their Victorian selves.

 

There was a lot of meta commentary on the show's writing, Moffat's approaching to plotting and characterisation but overall, there was a lot to be enjoyed and it was a nice one-off experiment I think, 8/10

[tankgirl73]

I'm fine with Sherlock's mind palace as a plot device, but the more the characters in the elsewhere version of London showed awareness that their world didn't exist outside of Sherlock's mind the less that part of the story worked for me.

 

I didn't mind that, to me that was indicative of how Sherlock was losing control. The first half of the show, before the reveal that it's all a drug trip in modern times, is almost flawless. Sherlock has "gone deep", so deep that he forgets that he's in his mind palace at all. But it's going wrong -- he's OD'd, and there's a danger of going *too* deep, so deep that he can't get out again. So his subconscious is trying to jar him awake, trying to keep him aware that this is a deliberate fantasy, giving him these hints (like the 'virus in the data'), so that he doesn't lose himself. If he gives up control of the fantasy, if he surrenders to it completely, he dies (or goes insane, either way). So the characters showing awareness, isn't the characters at all -- all the characters are him. Aspects of his psyche trying to keep him from getting lost in his own fantasy. He needs to keep the balance -- commit to carrying out the fantasy but still being aware that he's 'running a simulation' and ultimately he's in control of it. It gets worse as it goes on, because he is losing himself to it (probably because of the OD) despite the reminders, so they're getting more and more obvious and desperate.

Edited January 2, 2016 by tankgirl73

[photo fox]

I don't know, guys. I wanted to love it, I truly did. I mean, I have never anticipated a television program more. But I honestly kind of hated it. It felt cheap to me, like there were a lot of things they wanted to say or thought would be funny but wouldn't make sense in the "regular" show, so make it all in Sherlock's mind and then it doesn't have to make sense.

I typically enjoy meta references, like tweaking all the fan theories and the #sherlocklives stuff in TEH. But this went so far beyond that to almost winking at the audience. It was so heavy-handed with Mrs. Hudson that I was convinced she was going to break the fourth wall and start talking to the camera.

As a big ACD fan, I'm sure Gatiss had fun writing it, and I did love all the horror/suspense of the bride story. But I thought there were far too many "swipes" at the canon that were likely lost on a lot of people. Take my sister's family, for example. They've become big fans of the show, but she's the only one who has read the books, and I doubt any of them have delved into online fandom. So a lot of the funny jabs at ACD - fat!Mycroft, the confusion about where John lived, Mary waiting at home with John's tea, even the significance of the waterfall! - were going to fall flat with everyone but my sister. At best, they missed it entirely, at worst, it was a distraction.

They continued one of my least favorite themes from the last series: "Mary is smarter than everyone else in the room, including Sherlock and Mycroft." I like Amanda Abbingdon, but I don't like Mary, and I wish her role wasn't so prominent. So I'd be happy if she did wait at home with John's tea, (or, like in my head-canon, she had a fabulous career of her own that kept her busy off-screen).

I adore Andrew Scott, so any time he's on my screen is a treat! But all of the Moriarty stuff seemed off somehow. He wasn't nearly as intense, menacing, and downright wacko as usual. Maybe that was a deliberate choice, like the anachronisms that weren't, but it took a lot of the fun out of his character for me.

Things I did like:

I liked where they went with Molly's character hiding her gender. I was wondering how they would work her in, since she isn't a canon character and there wouldn't have been women MEs at that time. But I liked that John realized but Sherlock didn't, and I thought LB did a good job with it.

Fat!Mycroft was fun, and the stylists and set design people did a great job of generally de-modernizing the sets and the characters. (Even if what they did to hottie Lestrade was almost criminal! lol) It was neat seeing the hansom cabs and hearing references to "wires", the train, The Strand, etc. I bet it was an interesting writing challenge for Gatiss to regress all of his own modernizations.

I loved that in Sherlock's mind, John is smarter than he gets credit for, will always rescue him, and they will always beat Moriarty because they're a team. (Now, if Sherlock could just say all that while he's conscious!)

The acting, as always, was the standout, and even more here when the story (IMO) was weak. BC and MF have fantastic chemistry and deserve the biggest accolades, but top to bottom everyone knows their characters so well that they just make it look effortless. What a phenomenal cast, and a phenomenal job of casting!

All in all, it was an enjoyable bit of television, but I won't be watching over and over like I have the other episodes. Maybe my expectations are unfair, but I expect Sherlock to rock my world, and this simply didn't. *sigh*

[Chaos Theory]

And this is Sherlock's brain on drugs.

Any questions?

[Peace 47]

They continued one of my least favorite themes from the last series: "Mary is smarter than everyone else in the room, including Sherlock and Mycroft."

Almost everything we saw of Mary was entirely in Sherlock's mind palace. The first set of modern scenes was still taking place in Sherlock's mind (when she was cracking MI-5 security). That is not Mary, but how Sherlock sees Mary, which seems important in ways I haven't fleshed out yet. He underestimated her before; she shot him; he has subconscious suspicions about something going on between Mycroft and Mary (hence Mary working for Mycroft). The episode was about how Sherlock consistently and brutally underestimated everyone around him (John's intelligence, yes, but also every woman he's encountered: Molly, Janine, etc.) But Sherlock realizes now that he can't dismiss "one half of the human race." Given the ultimate conclusions of the episode, I wouldn't be surprised if Mary is the one with Mycroft under some kind of control (how else to explain Mary shooting Sherlock and Mycroft taking no action on it when he so clearly desperately cares about Sherlock's safety). I truly think Mary is the next major villain that Sherlock must confront.

The morning after, and I'm still further impressed by how brilliant that episode was. Every line was laced with so much meaning; the callbacks (on a psychological level) to past episodes were so tightly scripted. Example: that midnight greenhouse conversation. Nearly every character in Victorian times is just a representation of Sherlock's hidden desires, fears and hopes about himself and those around him. So when Watson pushes the point about why Sherlock is always alone, and Sherlock cannot answer, that's Sherlock pushing himself to answer that question. The line where Watson says that the "calculating machine" is a front that he writes, but that he knows that there is an emotional man underneath: that's what Sherlock hopes John thinks of him. It's all so poignant.

This portion of this review is honestly not a bad description, although I think the reviewer overall erroneously chalks up a couple of things to being "not clever" when she missed the point that those were Sherlock's clues to himself to try to wake himself as he was sucked under the tide of the OD:

This episode will be derided as Steven Moffat trying too hard to outwit the viewer and twisting what should be a perfectly simple whodunit into a plot device of labyrinth complexity. But the secret is that it isn't that clever and it doesn't completely make sense, because it's not supposed to. Moffat and Gatiss just filmed 90 minutes of the internal monologue of a tortured queer genius drug addict off his tits on coke, wrapped it up in a gothic mystery, and then gave it to us as a late Christmas present.

[tankgirl73]

I'm not certain if the first modern break was real or fantasy. I know the one later one is fantasy, but the first one, when the landing wakes him up, I think is supposed to be real. I don't find Mary to be 'smarter than everyone else' here -- she's just a good spy and clever with tech. While everyone else is fretting about how to possibly get such old info, she says "duh I'll google it". She does crack MI-5's security, but I doubt she's just done it right then -- she's already in. "How do you like MI5's security?" "It would be a good idea" is hilarious. She just accessed it. She's "smarter" in that she realizes that she doesn't have to figure everything out in her sacred mind palace or with a network of toadies -- the information is already there online, she just has to look it up.

 

I like the analysis though if it's part of his hallucination. I'll have to rewatch it with that possibility. But the beautiful agony of Watson finding out that Sherlock is just high, and that Mycroft has a history of rescuing Sherlock and there was this one time when they were young when it was really bad -- it would be a shame for that to not be real. But on the other hand, "I'll always be here for you" from Mycroft is kind of a too-sentimental thing for him to say, but a very interesting thing for Sherlock's mental projection of his brother to say.

[Writing Wrongs]

 

I wish they had left it a one-off unconnected to the modern day characters/storylines.

Me, too. I was enjoying it for that aspect. And as someone who hates this show's version of Moriarity, I started being less interested when he showed up.

[Peace 47]

I'm not certain if the first modern break was real or fantasy. I know the one later one is fantasy, but the first one, when the landing wakes him up, I think is supposed to be real.

You're completely right, and I was completely wrong: I did misinterpret where the break in the modern scene was (where we transition back to the mind palace). I would go back and edit my post, but then yours would not make sense. I was thinking that we surreptitiously transitioned back to the mind palace while Sherlock was on the plane, and there was that subtle "whooshing" sound. Mycroft made a comment about Sherlock knowing some things that Mycroft did not and they started talking about the list. This was an error on my part because I was misremembering that there was a more obvious break--Sherlock went back to Victorian times while still on the plane, then "woke up" (not really) on a gurney before they all ended up at the cemetery (which was the dream). So thanks for the correction.

Separately, I was thinking about the posts that wish this had been a one-off, when to me, there is nothing I would have hated more. I think what it boils down to is that for me, this show is my soap opera. I am invested in the continuing storyline and the relationships between characters. It's not a procedural for me like, say, Law & Order was, where it was just relaxing to check in with characters I liked delving into an interesting case while exchanging some witty banter. This episode kind of seems to demand extreme emotional investment in where this journey is going to spit Sherlock out at the end.

[alrightokay]

Almost everything we saw of Mary was entirely in Sherlock's mind palace. The first set of modern scenes was still taking place in Sherlock's mind (when she was cracking MI-5 security). That is not Mary, but how Sherlock sees Mary, which seems important in ways I haven't fleshed out yet. He underestimated her before; she shot him; he has subconscious suspicions about something going on between Mycroft and Mary (hence Mary working for Mycroft). The episode was about how Sherlock consistently and brutally underestimated everyone around him (John's intelligence, yes, but also every woman he's encountered: Molly, Janine, etc.) But Sherlock realizes now that he can't dismiss "one half of the human race." Given the ultimate conclusions of the episode, I wouldn't be surprised if Mary is the one with Mycroft under some kind of control (how else to explain Mary shooting Sherlock and Mycroft taking no action on it when he so clearly desperately cares about Sherlock's safety). I truly think Mary is the next major villain that Sherlock must confront.

I was wondering about this too.  After Mary is revealed to be a spy/killer in S3, John decides not to look into her past and stays with her, but I'm hazy on whether Sherlock still likes her/trusts her. Does the depiction of Mary in the mind palace show that Sherlock still has some questions about her? Mary was working for Mycroft, but wasn't she also connected to the Suffragettes (didn't she and Lestrade have a conversation about the vote)? She "found" the Suffragettes' hideout really easily. I just wonder if she had been working with them all along but "sold out" the Suffragettes in order to stay on John/Sherlock's good side. I know none of this is supposed to make logical sense, as it was all a dream/simulation, but could "The Abominable Bride" also be a stand-in/symbol for Mary, who poses a threat to the Holmes/Watson duo?  (The way she is dressed when she first appears in Victorian-Sherlock's apartment --in a black lace dress, heavily veiled, seems to "mirror" the way the Bride was dressed.)

[HauntedBathroom]

Well that was terrible.  Boring, flat, uninspired.

 

Couldn't just have an actual "Sherlock solves a mystery in his own time" story?  Too damn busy trying to be clever, clever, clever. Always the curse with this show.

 

Yeah, I hate it when shows try to be clever. Stick with stoo-pid!

 

I can't work out what was funnier, Molly in drag or Mycroft in the fat suit. Either way, it was a hell of a laugh.

[catrox14]

FWIW, I don't think I even watched the full trailer once I learned it would be set in the 1890s. I didn't see how it could be anything more than a silly one-off romp that would have no bearing on nor inform the current story lines and characterizations of modern-day Sherlock and John. 

 

I was happily surprised that the trip to 1890s was an actual drug trip in modern-day Sherlock's mind palace so he could work out the mystery of Moriarty being "alive".

 

On my first watch, the moment 1890s!Sherlock said he had to "go deep" I figured it was him trying to solve a mystery in his mind-palace but that it was still going to be a one-off mystery unrelated to modern-day Sherlock.

 

When I saw the M on the card that was delivered to Mary, I was like YES....he's trying to work out something in his mind palace about Moriarty but it was still going to just be a fun way to see Moriarty in 1890s

 

What I couldn't figure out and what was pissing me off was John being such an asshole to Mary and the housekeeper but I thought oh it's probably 1890s PTSD and 1890s attitude towards women.  As an aside, I thought it was really smart how they tied 1890s!John to the 2nd  Afghan War paralleling modern!John being in Afganistan.

 

Once the reveal of this being modern!Sherlock's drug fueled mind-palace it totally made sense to me I thought it worked perfectly.  And seeing Moriarty again just had me victory arming and whooping.

 

I thought the whole thing worked from start to finish which I haven't been able to say about an episode since Reichenbach Fall.

 

ETA: I loved the meta stuff here. I laughed long and hard with the gag about John's mustache.

Edited January 2, 2016 by catrox14

[Cirien]

FWIW, I don't think I even watched the full trailer once I learned it would be set in the 1890s. I didn't see how it could be anything more than a silly one-off romp that would have no bearing on nor inform the current story lines and characterizations of modern-day Sherlock and John. 

 

I was happily surprised that the trip to 1890s was an actual drug trip in modern-day Sherlock's mind palace so he could work out the mystery of Moriarty being "alive".

 

On my first watch, the moment 1890s!Sherlock said he had to "go deep" I figured it was him trying to solve a mystery in his mind-palace but that it was still going to be a one-off mystery unrelated to modern-day Sherlock.

 

When I saw the M on the card that was delivered to Mary, I was like YES....he's trying to work out something in his mind palace about Moriarty but it was still just a fun way to see Moriarty in 1890s

 

What I couldn't figure out and what was pissing me off was John being such an asshole to Mary and the housekeeper but I thought oh it's probably 1890s PTSD from 1890s!John being in the Afghan Wars of the 1800s PTSD combined with and 1890s attitude towards women.  As an aside, I thought it was really smart how they tied 1890s!John to the 2nd  Afghan War paralleling modern!John being in Afganistan.

 

Once the reveal of this being modern!Sherlock's drug fueled mind-palace,  I was SO excited to see it all tied to modern-day Sherlock.  I thought it worked perfectly.  And seeing Moriarty again just had me victory arming and whooping.

 

I thought the whole thing worked from start to finish which I haven't been able to say about an episode since Reichenbach Fall.

I mean if you listen to the commentary for "A Study in Pink"  both Moffat and Gatiss talk about this lucky coincidence that, at the U.K armed forces were at war in Afghanistan ...

[Penman61]

This tweet by Leigh Alexander summed it for me:

 

just watched sherlock mansplain feminism to a room full of annoyed women in witch outfits

[catrox14]

I mean if you listen to the commentary for "A Study in Pink"  both Moffat and Gatiss talk about this lucky coincidence that, at the U.K armed forces were at war in Afghanistan ...

 

 

Not sure what your point is here. I don't listen to the commentary. I've only watched the episodes on PBS here in the states and later on Netflix.

 

Or it might be the use of ellipses that have me puzzled....

[ganesh]

I was hoping just for an alternate universe episode set in the 1890s. I thought the 'inception' concept was overly much. Had they wanted to tie the 'present day' to the 1890s, they could have just had Holmes and Watson solving a cold case in the current timeline. After about 65 minutes, I was like, "is it over yet?"

 

I mean I was still entertained and I think the secret society of women was a cool idea, but they didn't really get into gender politics, if that's what was intended. Or have a copy cat ghost wife in the present time reflecting the society in the past. One could make a good parallel between eras.

I also thought it took too long for them to figure out that the 'wife' was a copy cat. I mean, 'remove what is improbable and what is left is possible.' Ghosts are improbable. So it's got to be another person. What's their m/o? Holmes may not have figured out the society, but he should have put that together much more quickly.

[elle]

 

So a lot of the funny jabs at ACD - fat!Mycroft, the confusion about where John lived, Mary waiting at home with John's tea, even the significance of the waterfall!

I did catch most of the references to the original Sherlock stories, but fat!Mycroft slipped past me.  Can you explain?

 

 

 

Tim McInnerny

That was the actor playing the awful Sir Eustace?  I did not recognize him, good job there!

 

I thought I recognized "Mrs. Carmichael"'s modern counterpart as the pilot on the jet.

 

Of the three women who talk during the Victorian reveal of the conspiracy, I know there was Molly and Jane (though she didn't speak), who was the other woman - the one accompanied by modern day flashforwards?

[CoderLady]

I did catch most of the references to the original Sherlock stories, but fat!Mycroft slipped past me.  Can you explain?

 

In the few stories where he appears, Mycroft is obese and sedentary but so much smarter than Sherlock that he rarely needs to do legwork to solve crimes. For anything requiring mobility he calls Sherlock, who freely acknowledges his brother's mental superiority. I was surprised that the modern Mycroft is different but it would probably have been a waste to have Mark Gatiss confined to a chair like that for the whole series.

Edited January 2, 2016 by CoderLady

[emma675]

I really wanted to love this episode, but...I'm not sure I did. I think I would have liked it more if it had just been a one-off set in Victorian times. The jumping back and forth in time frustrated me and I hate that it takes so long in between seasons to get this cast together again to film. It's hard for me to keep track of details when it's years in between seasons.

 

And I feel really stupid, but can someone explain the lists Sherlock gives to Mycroft every time he uses again? I really missed the point of that somehow.

[ganesh]

No one can do that smug sneer like Tim McInnerny. He's built a career on it.

 

Having modern Mycroft being fat and lazy would work. There's being true to source material, and there's making sensible upgrades for the sake of a decent television show. Conceptually, Mycroft is still 'confined' as it were, since he's a government official. He still uses Sherlock to go out and solve cases that he can't. 

[elle]

In the few stories where he appears, Mycroft is obese and sedentary but so much smarter than Sherlock that he rarely needs to do legwork to solve crimes. For anything requiring mobility he calls Sherlock, who freely acknowledges his brother's mental superiority. I was surprised that the modern Mycroft is different but it would probably have been a waste to have Mark Gatiss confined to a chair like that for the whole series.

Thank you!  Book-Mycroft sounds a lot like Nero Wolfe!

 

Was there significance to the bet that they made about how soon or how long it would take for Mycroft to die or was that just for the show?

 

There were a couple of other references that I caught but had to look up to be sure they were such.  One was "a seven-per-cent solution.", which I remembered as a title to a story, which it is, but not an ACD story but one written in the 70s as a lost manuscript of Watson.  However, the phrase itself appears in a Holmes story.  The other was the remark about the "orange pips" as being used in America to send a warning to someone.  My thought was "really? never heard of that one!", I guess because it only appears in a Holmes story.

 

And I feel really stupid, but can someone explain the lists Sherlock gives to Mycroft every time he uses again? I really missed the point of that somehow.

Mycroft made Sherlock promise to make a list of every drug he takes when he goes on one of his "mind trips" presumably to aid in reviving him, if need be.  (and no need to feel stupid, these shows are written to make one's head spin, imho)

 

When the list is first mentioned, in the Victorian scenes, I thought it referred to an actual list of suspects or possibilities that could be eliminated as solutions.  It  is on the airplane in the modern scene where Mycroft explains, with flashback, why the list is important.

 

For future reference in the show, the list, after being torn up by Sherlock,  was shown being picked up by Mycroft with the word Redbeard prominently shown to the audience.

Edited January 2, 2016 by elle

[Primetimer]

For its holiday special, Sherlock makes it actually special by going all the way back to the Victorian era. Cue the hat!

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