Leon Brown: So Here's Me

[Teafortwo]

On 6/30/2022 at 8:53 PM, LilyD said:

The world is working hard to make trans people feel inclusive and help them wherever we can. They also deserve the best care there is. But I see a  huge problem too: we want to get it right so badly that sometimes, we want things too much, too soon and ignore obvious red flags or other possibilities.
Concerns are currently voiced about people with psychological issues, confusion about sexuality and childhood traumas that now believe that being trans is the (simple) answer to all their problems. While this could be the case, we mustn’t ignore other signs and beingtrans isn’t a simple answer or solution!
You could wonder for example, if a strong dislike for one’s body is caused by a (sexual) trauma or because one is trans. Both are known to reject their body. A low self-esteem doesn’t automatically disappear with a new identity nor will bad memories disappear. It just doesn’t work that way.
Being trans is serious and complicated. If you feel you could be trans, I highly encourage you to explore the possibility. But please do so with an open mind and not exclusively focus on “trans-related” care. Mental issues and traumas deserve attention and need to be dealt with if the transition is to become a success.

Back to Leon then: In the UK,  former trans Ritchie Herron made headlines the past few weeks. Like Leon he had a troubled youth, psychological issues and struggled with their self-esteem and coming out as gay. Ritchy thought going down the trans-path was the answer. Big mistake with devastating medical consequences! Leon obviously hasn’t had surgery or hormone treatment (yet) but for the rest, their story shares a lot of similarities. Is identifying as trans in this case the answer? For Leon, I hope so, but I have some concerns. All I see now, is a person who for years has tried to figure out who they are and what they want, coming from a family where they never completely fit in, and uprooted and messed up your life more than once. Leon hasn’t been particularly successful in addressing these things, though they did come out as gay, which was a huge step. I highly encourage the arrival of Leon, but I really really hope that “their shit” isn’t ignored if they truly want to be happy and at peace in the future.

You make a very good point. When Jennifer Boylan, who's written several installments of her memoir (I think she uses she/her pronouns) was transitioning, she had to undergo many, many counseling sessions before surgery was performed in 2002 (I may be getting the dates wrong as I haven't looked it up.) She lives in Maine; I cannot recall if she had the surgery there or in Boston. I believe the degree of "vetting" if you will, varies from state to state and has changed over time to where there is much less intervention and treatment regarding any underlying trauma/depression/body image issues and so forth before people can proceed with surgery. Not saying that all or even most trans people have underlying psych issues requiring treatment but for those who do it shoild be addressed. Boylan is a wonderful writer and also a columnist for the NY Times.

To bring this back to Leon, I too wish them all the best. Being in the public eye all those years starting as a teen cannot have been easy for any of the Brown children; but particularly hard for Leon. 

(Embarrassed that I unthinkingly used their former name by mistake when originally making this post. Thanks to mods for flagging.)

[Yeah No]

On 6/30/2022 at 8:53 PM, LilyD said:

Back to Leon then: In the UK,  former trans Ritchie Herron made headlines the past few weeks. Like Leon he had a troubled youth, psychological issues and struggled with their self-esteem and coming out as gay. Ritchy thought going down the trans-path was the answer. Big mistake with devastating medical consequences! Leon obviously hasn’t had surgery or hormone treatment (yet) but for the rest, their story shares a lot of similarities. Is identifying as trans in this case the answer? For Leon, I hope so, but I have some concerns. All I see now, is a person who for years has tried to figure out who they are and what they want, coming from a family where they never completely fit in, and uprooted and messed up your life more than once. Leon hasn’t been particularly successful in addressing these things, though they did come out as gay, which was a huge step. I highly encourage the arrival of Leon, but I really really hope that “their shit” isn’t ignored if they truly want to be happy and at peace in the future.

I share your concerns.  I really hope for Leon's sake that coming out as trans is the answer for them but I just hope they know themselves and have examined their issues enough not to make a similarly devastating mistake as Ritchy did.  Unfortunately when one has a strained relationship with their parents over not feeling accepted for who they really are, they have to be very sure that they aren't motivated to go to extremes to pay them back for it that they may regret later.  I have heard of other cases where parents are very encouraging, and in those cases a person has to be sure they're not taking certain steps to continue to receive that encouragement.  But yeah, I wish Leon much peace and happiness with themselves in the future as a result of this development in spite of these concerns.

I know I probably don't need to say this, but I am hoping that nothing I've said above will be interpreted as disrespect or invalidation - I just want to make it very clear that it is NOT intended to be such but if I somehow have come off that way inadvertently, my apologies in advance.

[Adiba]

I hope that Leon finds happiness and peace in living their authentic life. I do question the timing—seems as if they and Audrey are merging into one person. You might say that Audrey coming out gave them the motivation to do so too, but I hope it’s not because they see Audrey’s happiness and think that’s their answer as well.
 I had been wondering if Leon was binding their breasts before they came out as trans, so this announcement was not a surprise to me. The weight gain could be a result of taking hormones (just speculating). 

[ginger90]

Not all transgender people transition. I haven’t seen anything from Leon suggesting it. They may have made a decision at this point, but we don’t actually know.

[Yeah No]

15 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Not all transgender people transition. I haven’t seen anything from Leon suggesting it. They may have made a decision at this point, but we don’t actually know.

Not even about transition, but even just deep down hoping that public acceptance might make up for parental/familial non-acceptance and feeling later that it does not.  I would hope that coming out publicly would help a person feel more authentic and better about themselves for having done so, but in spite of that they might not get out of it what they wish.  

[Kellyee]

Christine and Janelle's kids always seemed very bonded to each other, and Leon seemed to be on the outside of that for a long time, even before coming out as gay. Then Leon and Audrey moved away. I'm curious what Leon's real relationship is with the family at this point? Is Leon an outsider because Meri is now an outsider? Robyn and Kody and Christine and Janelle seemed to have each paired up with each other, leaving Meri as odd person out. I hope Leon isn't suffering because of that. They live in Utah now, so hopefully Christine and the Utah siblings are reaching out and being supportive.

Maybe they will give Leon Plexus and that will solve everything. It's been great for Janelle's weight loss, after all.

[ginger90]

2 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

They live in Utah now, so hopefully Christine and the Utah siblings are reaching out and being supportive.

They recently moved to Colorado.

[Adiba]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Not all transgender people transition. I haven’t seen anything from Leon suggesting it. They may have made a decision at this point, but we don’t actually know.

I am assuming that “transition” can mean coming out as trans and changing their name and pronouns, not necessarily having medical treatment nor looking like the opposite gender — but they do “appear” less feminine and appear as if they are binding when comparing old yoga pics? I mean that Leon is no longer known as she/her/Mariah/woman.

[GeeGolly]

Meri was the wicked step mother, so when Leon was a child I'm guessing they were caught in the middle a lot. Even when they lived in the triplex Meri was very territorial with her space and with Leon. Dynamics like these would likely put Leon in the position of picking sides. Also Meri was the favored queen wife back then, with Kody spending extra time in their place, which likely contributed to Leon's arrogance and distance from her siblings.

It seems once they moved to Vegas the original four - Logan, Aspen, Mariah(Leon) and Maddie sort of went their own ways. Leon became an only child almost full time then.

[Rabbit Hutch]

4 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I bet Leon is nice to mom because mom is the one who will pay for the move, help pay rent.

I doubt the lovebirds have that kind of $ to move. I’m thinking it’s $10,000 to move.

Agreed.  It ain't cheap, unless you plan on doing it yourself, which they may.  Nothing wrong with that, though.  😉

[Ms.Lulu]

26 minutes ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

Agreed.  It ain't cheap, unless you plan on doing it yourself, which they may.  Nothing wrong with that, though.  😉

Exactly, as young people in your 20s it is much easier to move yourself than when you are in your 50s or 60s.  Pudge and Sludge moved themselves when they moved to and from Chicago.  And Meri is likely to help as she didn't get to do that for the Chicago moves.

In your 20s you own less, you (should) be in your best physical health of your life, and your friends are young and willing to move boxes as you can help them do the same.

[LilyD]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Meri was the wicked step mother, so when Leon was a child I'm guessing they were caught in the middle a lot. Even when they lived in the triplex Meri was very territorial with her space and with Leon. Dynamics like these would likely put Leon in the position of picking sides. Also Meri was the favored queen wife back then, with Kody spending extra time in their place, which likely contributed to Leon's arrogance and distance from her siblings.

It seems once they moved to Vegas the original four - Logan, Aspen, Mariah(Leon) and Maddie sort of went their own ways. Leon became an only child almost full time then.

Exactly, and Meri opting for more palatial rentals in different neighbourhoods in Vegas isolated her even more. And  then there was Christmas: All families celebrated it in their new houses in the cul de sac, but not them because Meri messed up. 

[BAForever]

 I've enjoyed following their escapades of Leon over the past few years. Leon has shown (at times) entitled and spoiled actions. The emotional support dogs episode is a prime example. However, I  know I was kind of a dumbsh** at times in my mid-20's, and hope not to be forever judged by careless things I said and did then. To me, it's the rage that is the most unattractive quality they have. Anyway, as Leon grows more comfortable, I hope they are happy.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

10 hours ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

Agreed.  It ain't cheap, unless you plan on doing it yourself, which they may.  Nothing wrong with that, though.  😉

Agree.  Meri can drive the rental.  Or they can drive it themselves.

[Art Of Noiz]

2 hours ago, BAForever said:

 I've enjoyed following their escapades of Leon over the past few years. Leon has shown (at times) entitled and spoiled actions. The emotional support dogs episode is a prime example. However, I  know I was kind of a dumbsh** at times in my mid-20's, and hope not to be forever judged by careless things I said and did then. To me, it's the rage that is the most unattractive quality they have. Anyway, as Leon grows more comfortable, I hope they are happy.

I've always thought Leon was very bossy. Leon possibly got that from Meri, who was hbic until Robyn floated to the top of that pond. 

Leon had tantrums, e.g. Nativity play with Sol as the baby saviour, St Lucia's day when they were wrong about the crepes and they burned. The practical joke! The siblings told her Hunter was caught DUI so they all had to go home. She raged.

Leon rocks the Flounce. Kody cuts and runs, too..

Leon has also mastered tears and sulking..seeing Meri's example again. 

This is all pre-catfish. My mom did this sort of stuff to me, keeping secrets from Daddy, making me complicit. I don't blame Leon one bit for their reactions to Meri's bs afterward. 

[deirdra]

When they lived in the triplex where Meri wouldn't let her "bonus kids" use the indoor stairs, even in winter to access homeschool when Meri was at work, Leon reported infractions like Big Boss II.

[Phoebe70]

Leon, please, for the love of God, wash your hair. It looks like they comb their hair with a pork chop. I can’t imagine anyone hiring them looking like a hot, smelly, unbathed mess. 

[LilyD]

5 hours ago, Art Of Noiz said:

I've always thought Leon was very bossy. Leon possibly got that from Meri, who was hbic until Robyn floated to the top of that pond. 

Leon had tantrums, e.g. Nativity play with Sol as the baby saviour, St Lucia's day when they were wrong about the crepes and they burned. The practical joke! The siblings told her Hunter was caught DUI so they all had to go home. She raged.

Leon rocks the Flounce. Kody cuts and runs, too..

Leon has also mastered tears and sulking..seeing Meri's example again. 

This is the perfect example of what is known as The Princess (or Prince) Treatment among psychologists. Nowadays, a lot of kids are raised as very delicate princes and princesses. They are always right and absolutely brilliant. As a parent, you no longer bluntly refuse or set boundaries as it may damage their precious souls. Instead, the kids are taught to negotiate their way out of it, and if that doesn’t work, a kid can always be bribed into the desired behaviour, so they'll always get what they want.
( Yes, black&white but done to illustrate the problem)

Don’t know about Audrey, but Leon was definitely raised this way by Meri. What you get is entitled, spoilt adults who get extremely mad when things don’t go their way. Those adults typically demand, rather than ask and are of course, always right. It’s my guess that those two are now struggling with the harsh reality of normal life too. (In addition to any identity-related things) A life in which you are not always front and centre, where you can’t always get what you want, you’re not always right and where sometimes you will have to listen and work with other people. Oh and actually work for a living (or a coffee for that matter) To some of these princes and princesses, this is really hard!

[GeeGolly]

I found Leon's behavior towards Meri after the catfish appalling and very reflective of who they are at their core. Meri made a (mega) mistake, a mistake that basically cost her her marriage, yet perfect little Leon made it all about themselves and how they were impacted. Its my experience as a therapist that most kids react in one of two ways - they kind of roll their eyes and shrug and go on their merry way or they support the parent (sometimes superficially, because they are kids).

Support doesn't equal approval. I mean how long did it take for Leon to even talk to Meri again - months? And Meri, dictator of all dictators falls prey to Leon's antics because Leon's her kid? Then as Leon continued on their journey into adulthood they would dangle events like carrots to Meri deciding when and if Meri would be allowed to be involved. So mean and so passive-aggressive.

Humility and grace are wonderful traits in any human and Leon is demanding those traits of others as they "get their shit together", yet they are the last one to offer them to anyone else, even their own mother.

[TurtlePower]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I found Leon's behavior towards Meri after the catfish appalling and very reflective of who they are at their core. Meri made a (mega) mistake, a mistake that basically cost her her marriage, yet perfect little Leon made it all about themselves and how they were impacted. Its my experience as a therapist that most kids react in one of two ways - they kind of roll their eyes and shrug and go on their merry way or they support the parent (sometimes superficially, because they are kids).

Support doesn't equal approval. I mean how long did it take for Leon to even talk to Meri again - months? And Meri, dictator of all dictators falls prey to Leon's antics because Leon's her kid? Then as Leon continued on their journey into adulthood they would dangle events like carrots to Meri deciding when and if Meri would be allowed to be involved. So mean and so passive-aggressive.

Humility and grace are wonderful traits in any human and Leon is demanding those traits of others as they "get their shit together", yet they are the last one to offer them to anyone else, even their own mother.

I respectfully disagree with the bolded portion and here’s why: Leon warned Meri that “Sam” was a suspected catfish. They warned Meri and Meri still went for it, knowing that the person calling themselves Sam might not be a real person.

Meri also involved Leon in this whole thing, even dragging them to Disney to “meet” said catfish (whose “assistant” turned up instead). Meri took NO BLAME for any of it when it all came out. In fact, she seemed to have forgotten Leon was even there for it as she spun her story. 

So I don’t blame Leon for being angry with Meri. They were pissed because, as usual, Meri took *no responsibility* for her actions. Leon wasn’t having it and I don’t blame them. They had a right to be angry because Meri put them in a potentially dangerous situation. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by TurtlePower

[GeeGolly]

17 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

I respectfully disagree with the bolded portion and here’s why: Leon warned Meri that “Sam” was a suspected catfish. They warned Meri and Meri still went for it, knowing that the person calling themselves Sam might not be a real person.

Meri also involved Leon in this whole thing, even dragging them to Disney to “meet” said catfish (whose “assistant” turned up instead). Meri took NO BLAME for any of it when it all came out. In fact, she seemed to have forgotten Leon was even there for it as she spun her story. 

So I don’t blame Leon for being angry with Meri. They were pissed because, as usual, Meri took *no responsibility* for her actions. Leon wasn’t having it and I don’t blame them. They had a right to be angry because Meri put them in a potentially dangerous situation. 

Nowhere did I say Leon had no right to be angry with Meri. Its how they managed that anger is where I see the problem. The silent treatment is one of the cruelest ways (short of violence) to manage anger and also one of the most immature. 

My post also never defended Meri quasi cheating on Kody or her behaviors afterward. My post was about Leon's behaviors.

Leon basically held Meri hostage while they decided when they were done being angry. There's four ways most use to communicate and/or manage anger - passive, aggressive, passive-aggressive and assertive, with obviously assertive being the healthiest way.  Leon was very passive-aggressive and made Meri's problem all about themselves.

So yes, by all means, Leon had every right to be upset. To be upset with Meri's stupidity, Meri's cheating and Meri's lack of responsibility. But IMO, Leon had no right to behave as a passive-aggressive asshole toward their mother.

[Irate Panda]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Nowhere did I say Leon had no right to be angry with Meri. Its how they managed that anger is where I see the problem. The silent treatment is one of the cruelest ways (short of violence) to manage anger and also one of the most immature. 

My post also never defended Meri quasi cheating on Kody or her behaviors afterward. My post was about Leon's behaviors.

Leon basically held Meri hostage while they decided when they were done being angry. There's four ways most use to communicate and/or manage anger - passive, aggressive, passive-aggressive and assertive, with obviously assertive being the healthiest way.  Leon was very passive-aggressive and made Meri's problem all about themselves.

So yes, by all means, Leon had every right to be upset. To be upset with Meri's stupidity, Meri's cheating and Meri's lack of responsibility. But IMO, Leon had no right to behave as a passive-aggressive asshole toward their mother.

I don’t particularly care for Leon or Meri, but once a parent tries to make her child complicit in the agenda of an affair, which imo is what Meri did, Leon had every right to ignore, not talk to, or be mad at Meri.  As @Joan of Argh mentioned Leon tried to warn Meri, which went nowhere.  Meri expose her daughter to whatever nonsense this catfish did and put Leon, who knows this was fake, in the position of having to keep this lie/secret from her father. Kody’s a jackass, but at least at that time, Leon seemed to have a some kind of relationship with him.  Meri having an “affair”, which at least on an emotional level is what this was and forcing her child to be part of it, was an asshole move imo.

eta : As far as immature ways of dealing with things, look who their parents are.  Maybe Leon’s “walls” went up and they couldn’t talk about things like Meri always claims.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Irate Panda

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, Irate Panda said:

I don’t particularly care for Leon or Meri, but once a parent tries to make her child complicit in the agenda of an affair, which imo is what Meri did, Leon had every right to ignore, not talk to, or be mad at Meri.  As @Joan of Argh mentioned Leon tried to warn Meri, which went nowhere.  Meri expose her daughter to whatever nonsense this catfish did and put Leon, who knows this was fake, in the position of having to keep this lie/secret from her father. Kody’s a jackass, but at least at that time, Leon seemed to have a some kind of relationship with him.  Meri having an “affair”, which at least on an emotional level is what this was and forcing her child to be part of it, was an asshole move imo.

eta : As far as immature ways of dealing with things, look who their parents are.  Maybe Leon’s “walls” went up and they couldn’t talk about things like Meri always claims.

Totally agree Meri was very Meri throughout the whole thing. Meri has an uncanny 'talent' for twisting truths and manipulating those around her and she never veered from her cold selfish self.

[TurtlePower]

18 minutes ago, Irate Panda said:

I don’t particularly care for Leon or Meri, but once a parent tries to make her child complicit in the agenda of an affair, which imo is what Meri did, Leon had every right to ignore, not talk to, or be mad at Meri.  As @Joan of Argh mentioned Leon tried to warn Meri, which went nowhere.  Meri expose her daughter to whatever nonsense this catfish did and put Leon, who knows this was fake, in the position of having to keep this lie/secret from her father. Kody’s a jackass, but at least at that time, Leon seemed to have a some kind of relationship with him.  Meri having an “affair”, which at least on an emotional level is what this was and forcing her child to be part of it, was an asshole move imo.

eta : As far as immature ways of dealing with things, look who their parents are.  Maybe Leon’s “walls” went up and they couldn’t talk about things like Meri always claims.

I’m not convinced Leon gave Meri the silent treatment, at least not at first. Leon is not the type to stay quiet — maybe they got tired of being unheard and gave up. 

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Nowhere did I say Leon had no right to be angry with Meri. Its how they managed that anger is where I see the problem. The silent treatment is one of the cruelest ways (short of violence) to manage anger and also one of the most immature. 

My post also never defended Meri quasi cheating on Kody or her behaviors afterward. My post was about Leon's behaviors.

Leon basically held Meri hostage while they decided when they were done being angry. There's four ways most use to communicate and/or manage anger - passive, aggressive, passive-aggressive and assertive, with obviously assertive being the healthiest way.  Leon was very passive-aggressive and made Meri's problem all about themselves.

So yes, by all means, Leon had every right to be upset. To be upset with Meri's stupidity, Meri's cheating and Meri's lack of responsibility. But IMO, Leon had no right to behave as a passive-aggressive asshole toward their mother.

Ouch. Never implied you defended Meri’s affair, at least I didn’t mean to. I’m so stupid sometimes when I try to communicate. 

[Jeanne222]

I remember the Meri and Leon season on Sister Wives and have to wonder how much back and forth was producer driven.  It was a whole season of content for the show.

If family members are paid by participation Meri and Leon must have made a lot of money.

I'm not sure how the money works.  Are just the principals paid and it's up to them to dole out the money as they decide or does one or two prominent in the season contract for certain amounts?

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

I’m not convinced Leon gave Meri the silent treatment, at least not at first. Leon is not the type to stay quiet — maybe they got tired of being unheard and gave up. 

Ouch. Never implied you defended Meri’s affair, at least I didn’t mean to. I’m so stupid sometimes when I try to communicate. 

Sorry, I didn't mean to ouch you. I often forget there's no affect when posting and that wasn't my intent.

[ginger90]

5 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'm not sure how the money works.  Are just the principals paid and it's up to them to dole out the money as they decide or does one or two prominent in the season contract for certain amounts?

I don’t think anyone knows with this family. I know Paedon said at one point he was paid, I’m assuming as an adult, not the whole time.

[WhatAmIWatching]

3 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

I respectfully disagree with the bolded portion and here’s why: Leon warned Meri that “Sam” was a suspected catfish. They warned Meri and Meri still went for it, knowing that the person calling themselves Sam might not be a real person.

Meri also involved Leon in this whole thing, even dragging them to Disney to “meet” said catfish (whose “assistant” turned up instead). Meri took NO BLAME for any of it when it all came out. In fact, she seemed to have forgotten Leon was even there for it as she spun her story. 

So I don’t blame Leon for being angry with Meri. They were pissed because, as usual, Meri took *no responsibility* for her actions. Leon wasn’t having it and I don’t blame them. They had a right to be angry because Meri put them in a potentially dangerous situation. 

Imo, Leon's age at the time needs to be taken in to account as well.

  I know when I was late teens, I felt my parents were embarrassing, but they never did anything as egregious as publicly fall for a catfish and ignore all advice that said person wasn't real. Then add in all those desperate voicemails, and banana fellating, and also the dermatographia pics of her arm where she wrote SAM. I'm terrifically embarrassed by it all, and I'm a thousand years old and not related to her!

 I would have been extremely angry if one of my parents blew me off when I tried to warn them, and if they refused to take any responsibility for their actions and also tried rewriting history. I'd definitely need some space from them for a while after the massive-scale public humiliation they subjected me to.  And that's all on top of Meri's usual controlling and smothering behavior for Leon's entire life.

[kassa]

At the time of the post catfish Meri-Leon conflict I recall thinking that Leon's obstinance was because of the cameras, and Meri's insistence on being given forgiveness on camera while maintaining a fiction. Leon was not going to grant absolution for the false version of events Meri was spinning. To me it was less about witholding love than digging in and withholding the lie Meri wanted their complicity in, that Meri was duped with no reason to suspect it was anything but genuine, etc. Their (Leon's) body language was strongly "I know what you want me to say, but I told you I'm not doing this here/now and the answer won't change no matter how hard you push me." Otherwise it was cordial enough and if Meri had stopped manipulating Leon in front of the cameras they may have healed faster.

Having thrown the whole family for a loop with the catfish thing, Meri NEEDED Leon's public backup of her version of events, which more-than-casual onlookers (and Leon) knew to be a lie. Leon wasn't having it. To me THAT was the battle they were waging, not one for forgiveness, per se. Sure, there was resentment, but if Leon truly sided with Kody there would not have been the visit home, walk to the park with the dog, etc. 

[Irate Panda]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:21 AM, TurtlePower said:

I’m not convinced Leon gave Meri the silent treatment, at least not at first. Leon is not the type to stay quiet — maybe they got tired of being unheard and gave up. 

Yeah I don’t think Leon was silent in the beginning I think she got tired of talking to a brick wall and in the end probably was like why bother? IMO if the vegan billionaire were real, Kody summed it up best, “She was gonna leave my ass!”   Now I wouldn’t blame Meri for leaving, but dragging her child into the mess is really or rilly what I have an issue with so Leon deciding to detach if that’s what they did, I personally don’t blame them.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Irate Panda

[Art Of Noiz]

It is so great to be able to read all the different observations on this forum! I'm aging at warp speed and need my perspectives stretched. 

I never thought of Leon's obstinance due to filming. Ty!

[LilyD]

3 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Ouch. Never implied you defended Meri’s affair, at least I didn’t mean to. I’m so stupid sometimes when I try to communicate. 

No you’re not!
Absolutely not😘.

We often forget that communicating in writing is tricky and may easily lead to misunderstanding. I think we’ve all been there at one point, particularly on active forums such as this one. I know I have!

There’s just words and we cannot see any facial expressions or check straight away if we’re not sure of what was meant. Also reading in between the lines is incredibly hard, especially if a writer is subtly trying to convey any feelings, particularly when being sarcastic or mocking someone.

[Joan of Argh]

8 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

Yeah I don’t think Leon was silent in the beginning I think she got tired of talking to a brick wall and in the end probably was like why bother? IMO if the vegan billionaire we’re real, Kody summed it up best, “She was gonna leave my ass!”   Now I wouldn’t blame Meri for leaving, but dragging her child into the mess is really or rilly what I have an issue with so Leon deciding to detach if that’s what they did, I personally don’t blame them.

I agree…. I’m not a fan of or someone who agrees with Leon or their way of handling things but this time I think they were dealt a shitty hand and did the best they could considering how embarrassing the whole situation was…..let’s not forget Meri didn’t just drag Leon to Disney to meet her new beau but even after the whole thing blew up she pressured Leon to meet “Sams” other victims as she tried to push her agenda and refuse to take responsibility for her actions… Leon didn’t want to meet the other idiots taken in by “Sam” and listen to the sordid details but Meri was insisting that Leon do so so they’d understand what an innocent victim Meri was and that she wasn’t the only person to fall for the con.

It also didn’t help Leon to find out that the other “victims” were either separated or divorced and available to pursue a relationship unlike Meri who was still acting, religious, modest and holier than thou while cheating on Leon’s dad and expecting Leon to be complicit in the deception!

It took Leon a while but she did forgive Meri on the other hand Meri STILL hasn’t taken responsibility for her actions or been truthful about her intentions.

If I was Leon I’d still be pissed off!

[xwordfanatik]

59 minutes ago, Joan of Argh said:

I agree…. I’m not a fan of or someone who agrees with Leon or their way of handling things but this time I think they were dealt a shitty hand and did the best they could considering how embarrassing the whole situation was…..let’s not forget Meri didn’t just drag Leon to Disney to meet her new beau but even after the whole thing blew up she pressured Leon to meet “Sams” other victims as she tried to push her agenda and refuse to take responsibility for her actions… Leon didn’t want to meet the other idiots taken in by “Sam” and listen to the sordid details but Meri was insisting that Leon do so so they’d understand what an innocent victim Meri was and that she wasn’t the only person to fall for the con.

It also didn’t help Leon to find out that the other “victims” were either separated or divorced and available to pursue a relationship unlike Meri who was still acting, religious, modest and holier than thou while cheating on Leon’s dad and expecting Leon to be complicit in the deception!

It took Leon a while but she did forgive Meri on the other hand Meri STILL hasn’t taken responsibility for her actions or been truthful about her intentions.

If I was Leon I’d still be pissed off!

I'm applauding your comment, joan.  I couldn't have said it any better!

[deirdra]

11 hours ago, kassa said:

At the time of the post catfish Meri-Leon conflict I recall thinking that Leon's obstinance was because of the cameras, and Meri's insistence on being given forgiveness on camera while maintaining a fiction. Leon was not going to grant absolution for the false version of events Meri was spinning.

I thought the same thing at the time, especially because Meri involved two additional women catfished by Sam (but one wouldn't appear on camera so the second had to be persuaded to confirm what Meri was saying). One was filmed meeting Meri in a restaurant and brought over to Meri's to meet Leon though Leon had no interest in meeting another of Sam's pathetic fools. Meri was clearly trying to manipulate as many people as possible to corroborate on camera that Meri was just a poor innocent victim. Leon refused to lie & comply and who can blame them.

Edited July 5, 2022 by deirdra

[Teafortwo]

On 7/3/2022 at 9:42 AM, Adiba said:

I hope that Leon finds happiness and peace in living their authentic life. I do question the timing—seems as if they and Audrey are merging into one person. You might say that Audrey coming out gave them the motivation to do so too, but I hope it’s not because they see Audrey’s happiness and think that’s their answer as well.
 I had been wondering if Leon was binding their breasts before they came out as trans, so this announcement was not a surprise to me. The weight gain could be a result of taking hormones (just speculating). 

This is just a guess, but I would imagine both Audrey and Leon had many, many discussions over many years about gender identity. With respect to the timing of the announcements, with Leon being more of a public figure they may have decided to have Audrey announce first to sort of test the waters - gauge people's reactions and so forth. The outpouring of positive feedback Audrey received may have allowed Leon to feel more comfortable making their own announcement as well. For all we know, exploring their identities as trans may have been one of the things that drew Audrey and Leon together from the very start of their relationship.

[ginger90]

Meri also attempted to use Solomon in the aftermath of the catfish.

[LilyD]

Lots is said about Leon’s behaviour towards Meri with the catfish.

In normal circumstances, Leon’s shitty behaviour would be totally unacceptable. However, this situation was unique: Meri made two of the worst mistakes a parent can make.No parent has the right to ever place a child in a position against the other parent. A child is deeply loyal to both parents and will protect them and the family unit at all costs. And second: your child is not a caretaker for your soul and your own conscience. Hire a family shrink to deal with that shit, not your child. Those 2 things are huge and leave big gaping wounds on your soul that may never heal.

My sister and I were in a position that was very similar to Leon’s. So I can relate to that. My sis’ behaviour was exactly like Leon’s: Huge anger and unwilling to forgive. it is an absolute nightmare to be in for any child. Trust me. So yes, I can totally understand Leon’s behaviour no matter how shitty it was.

[laurakaye]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:21 AM, Irate Panda said:

 IMO if the vegan billionaire we’re real, Kody summed it up best, “She was gonna leave my ass!” 

He actually said: "She was gonna leave my ASS!"  And believe me, I am really sad that I remember this.  His phraseology was....interesting, lol.

[TurtlePower]

2 hours ago, CherryBelly said:

Leon's behaviour wasn't great. But what Meri does, is she's allowed to be defensive and have walls but if anyone has an issue with her; she just wants them to get over it a.s.a.p without her really conceding that she'd done wrong. 

I really think Leon would have gotten over it much quicker if Meri had said "yep, I f-ed up and I'm sorry" and given the person space to process. But she pushes and pushes and in terms of the catfishing, she was gaslighting everyone.

When you watch the early catfishing episodes there's more honesty from Meri about this "relationship". And I think because she was so vulnerable at that time, most people including Kody all gathered round to support her and say how awful this catfisher was and how she was a victim. Because you'd have to be a bit of an ass-hole to kick someone when they're down and tell them how stupid they were and point out what they did to cause it. But then Meri went with all that support, got into a support group of the catfishing victims and started to claim she was just targeted by a sicko and did nothing wrong. At all. Which *wasn't* true.

And Leon wasn't going to go along with that since they were there at the time. They saw their Mom ignoring them and the rest of the family for a few months because Meri was all in with this new person and thinking she was in a relationship and ready to leave the family for it. 

Meri told Kody to not come around anymore and pulled away from the family because she was giddy talking to this person at all hours of the day and night and enjoying this fantasy.

And all that time, Leon and other family members were telling Meri the truth, that she was being catfished. Which she ignored. And involved Leon by trying to get them to like this person and meet them.

So for Leon, to see their Mom at some time change the narrative and say she never had an emotional affair, she was never going to leave, and she only pulled away from the family to protect them. Leon was the only one then, saying that was BS.

Leon making shitty comments about eyebrows wasn't good, but I totally got where they were coming from in finding it hard to forgive. Because Meri wasn't acknowledging she had done anything to be forgiven for, and gaslighting Leon and anyone else, trying to force them to see her as a hapless victim and feel sorry for her.

Forgiveness is a really hard thing to achieve when the person that hurt you doesn't admit they did anything wrong. 

THIS. 

[Yeah No]

I think it's hard to put oneself in Leon's shoes when Meri was putting them through the very public embarrassment of the catfish debacle, but I still don't think that if my mother was doing all that I'd handle it the same way.  I always had a lot of empathy and compassion for my mother even at that age and we had a very different relationship.  And I think Kodouche's responsibility in all of this would not have been lost on me so I would probably have seen Meri's behavior with more compassion.  I don't think Leon cared about that, only about how it looked to the world.  So their reaction was more about how it was affecting THEM in the end.

I also can't help but wonder how much of what Leon is revealing very publicly now is in part being revealed so publicly to get their mother back for what she did to them, also very publicly, and which might cause an analogous amount of embarrassment.  I can't help but feel that there's an element of retribution going on here.  If that's true I could understand why, but still would not admire it.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Yeah No

[LilyD]

That was an amazing post @CherryBelly. Well-worded and you pretty much summed up what worries me in Leon's process of growing up and discovering who they are. Leon hasn't had an easy childhood for reasons you listed which makes it hard to grow into a well-balanced and secure adult. I wish them all the best, peace of mind and a chance to grow into their real "me".

On a general note, I also share your worries about being branded into something we're not. Frankly, I find it a very scary development that words are so easily pulled out of context or translated into something that was not intended. It makes me sometimes nervous to put things into words. When I look at all the responses out here on this specific forum, I feel we're all very accepting and caring. None of us is rude or offensive towards people who are gay or trans. If any of us does something that is seen as crossing the line, I hope we get the chance to set things right before being kicked off...

Lastly, forums such as these offer a wonderful environment to discuss our changing society. I find it helps to understand what is going on and it certainly broadens your view or helps to put matters into a bigger perspective, which is so important in a world that is changing at such a fast pace!

[GeeGolly]

We are a society of swinging pendulums. The problem is the pendulum is at its best when its quietly and slowly swinging in the middle, but its the extreme ends that get all the attention.

IMO, its okay to nonjudgmentally show concern and thoughts about any and all issues. The fact is, not everyone who has accused another of rape/abuse is telling the truth (#metoo). The fact is not everyone exploring gender identity will land on something different than cisgender. Not everyone who is prochoice is proabortion, not everyone who is prolife is pro life. The fact is, is there is a small amount of folks who jump on the pendulum at its extreme when they have no business being there or are confused.

I think what should be celebrated is no one on these threads is expressing doubt that gender identity issues are real. No one is even eking out a tiny bit of disguised hate. The only thoughts I'm reading are concerns for Leon's wellbeing.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, CherryBelly said:

Leon's behaviour wasn't great. But what Meri does, is she's allowed to be defensive and have walls but if anyone has an issue with her; she just wants them to get over it a.s.a.p without her really conceding that she'd done wrong. 

I really think Leon would have gotten over it much quicker if Meri had said "yep, I f-ed up and I'm sorry" and given the person space to process. But she pushes and pushes and in terms of the catfishing, she was gaslighting everyone.

When you watch the early catfishing episodes there's more honesty from Meri about this "relationship". And I think because she was so vulnerable at that time, most people including Kody all gathered round to support her and say how awful this catfisher was and how she was a victim. Because you'd have to be a bit of an ass-hole to kick someone when they're down and tell them how stupid they were and point out what they did to cause it. But then Meri went with all that support, got into a support group of the catfishing victims and started to claim she was just targeted by a sicko and did nothing wrong. At all. Which *wasn't* true.

And Leon wasn't going to go along with that since they were there at the time. They saw their Mom ignoring them and the rest of the family for a few months because Meri was all in with this new person and thinking she was in a relationship and ready to leave the family for it. 

Meri told Kody to not come around anymore and pulled away from the family because she was giddy talking to this person at all hours of the day and night and enjoying this fantasy.

And all that time, Leon and other family members were telling Meri the truth, that she was being catfished. Which she ignored. And involved Leon by trying to get them to like this person and meet them.

So for Leon, to see their Mom at some time change the narrative and say she never had an emotional affair, she was never going to leave, and she only pulled away from the family to protect them. Leon was the only one then, saying that was BS.

Leon making shitty comments about eyebrows wasn't good, but I totally got where they were coming from in finding it hard to forgive. Because Meri wasn't acknowledging she had done anything to be forgiven for, and gaslighting Leon and anyone else, trying to force them to see her as a hapless victim and feel sorry for her.

Forgiveness is a really hard thing to achieve when the person that hurt you doesn't admit they did anything wrong. 

Thinking this over I doubt my own mother would have apologized for any of this, not that she would have done a lot of it either, but I never would have expected it.  But then again I have always held that the one big mistake Meri made was to try to relate to her child as a friend and not a parent.  She basically gave her child the power to be her judge and jury and use that power against her.  My mother and just about every mother from her generation (born in the 1920s) I've ever known would NEVER have put themselves in that kind of position.  They were the parent and you did not question what they were doing, period.  And most kids from my generation didn't because they knew what kind of fresh hell they'd be in for if they did.  In my case my mother didn't laud her power over me but I respected it nonetheless.  And that in a way made me more able to see her side of things even when her behavior embarrassed me.  I think Meri basically handed over all the power in her relationship with Leon to Leon, and being the dominant type of person Leon is, they gladly assumed the role of parent in the relationship when their mother acted vulnerable and all too human (and when suited them) but then cried victim when it didn't.  And Meri let them do it, and that came back to bite her in the butt.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Yeah No
Still working on the pronouns!

[Sandy W]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think it's hard to put oneself in Leon's shoes when Meri was putting them through the very public embarrassment of the catfish debacle, but I still don't think that if my mother was doing all that I'd handle it the same way.  I always had a lot of empathy and compassion for my mother even at that age and we had a very different relationship.  And I think Kodouche's responsibility in all of this would not have been lost on me so I would probably have seen Meri's behavior with more compassion.  I don't think Leon cared about that, only about how it looked to the world.  So their reaction was more about how it was affecting THEM in the end.

I also can't help but wonder how much of what Leon is revealing very publicly now is in part being revealed so publicly to get their mother back for what she did to them, also very publicly, and which might cause an analogous amount of embarrassment.  I can't help but feel that there's an element of retribution going on here.  If that's true I could understand why, but still would not admire it.

I see your POV but from my perspective, it seems to me that Meri lost Leon's respect by attempting to involve them in a conspiracy against a father that Leon presumably loved and cared for.

This is an indefensible position to place a child in and as painful as a split from the family would have been before embarking on a search for love, it would have been the right thing to do. 

[Kellyee]

On a totally shallow note, the shorts Leon is wearing in the photo with the trans announcement are very unfortunate and not flattering at all. And it looks like they are wearing one pair of shorts over another? Are the photos supposed to be conveying deep thoughts or something??

[GeeGolly]

I agree Leon's shorts weren't flattering. When I see others dressed in less than flattering I always go back and forth between, did you look in the mirror and more power to you for loving your body.

[LilyD]

The newest comments on Leon’s outfit made me go back and look at that picture. And I would like to say the following:

Be who you want to be, dress how you want to dress (no matter how ugly and unflattering) but please start looking after yourself! I’m starting to get very annoyed by their total lack of care to stay at least clean and healthy. That hair is so greasy and matted that I doubt any hairdresser would touch it without gloves. A stray dog would be jealous of it! I’m not sure how either smells but I doubt it’s nice. And the extra pounds both of them keep adding to their body in an alarming rate makes me sick too. Leon is now dangerously close to morbid obesity and will easily qualify for Dr Now’s show in a few years’ time. Now that will make for some interesting tv when it happens! (I’m sure it will) I’d definitely stay home to watch that show!

[Gramto6]

Since falling and breaking a finger I have been doing what my ex-hubby called a "Marine Shower" my finger is in a splint that can't get wet. I wash with soap and water and a washcloth I use the dry shampoo for my hair and rosewater is one of my best friends. It is not that hard to get clean/oil free especially if you are full functioning  as the "twins" are (I think they just choose not to bathe). Yuk!

I am so looking forward to be able to get in the shower again!

[TurtlePower]

18 hours ago, Sandy W said:

I see your POV but from my perspective, it seems to me that Meri lost Leon's respect by attempting to involve them in a conspiracy against a father that Leon presumably loved and cared for.

This is an indefensible position to place a child in and as painful as a split from the family would have been before embarking on a search for love, it would have been the right thing to do. 

Meri also placed Leon in possible danger for attempting to meet a stranger that she was advised was not who they said they were. And then forgot about it — Leon had to remind her of it.

I’m glad they seemed to have mended their relationship, but it might not ever be what it once was. Sometimes, you can love a parent and not like who they are at the same time. I just don’t see Meri as the type to admit fault honestly — it’s always something someone’s done TO her so she doesn’t have to be in the wrong.

I had similar issues with my dad. He was always like this wasn’t my fault, that wasn’t my fault (it was, but I couldn’t say anything without a blow up aka “walls”). I could never speak my mind around him and had to walk on eggshells constantly. The relationship never mended, but I pretended it did. It was really difficult.