Season 3 Discussion

[Kiss my mutt]

I thought Loren came off as being spoiled. It's like she goes to Israel and wants to bring Alexei back as a souvenir. But I guess the same could be said for all of them.

[Juneaucat]

Every time I see Josh, I think of Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry. Really similar look.

[ethalfrida]

On the 90 Day facebook page, it said that he moved to Israel at 10, but I don't remember from which country. I want to say Ukraine. Also, some said that Canada doesn't require a Visa from Israel, and that is why they met there. I just tried to find the posts to link it, but that page is a mess and I don't see them off hand.

The discussion on Facebook is lively with lots of criticism of Mark and TLC. Unbelievable.

[cooksdelight]

I just put a link to that page in the Spoilers, Media Links thread, so that the people reading here who may not want to know what's contained on the page won't be spoiled.

[charmed1]

Every time I see Josh, I think of Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry. Really similar look.

Yes! You nailed it.

[grumpypanda]

Every time I see Josh, I think of Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry. Really similar look.

This is hilarious, I was thinking the exact same thing.

[cooksdelight]

Mark, you're an asshole. Your kids don't live with you anymore, no reason to have framed photos out in your bedroom of your ex-wife on the day she arrives. You're an asshole. Nikki.... run far, run fast. Run, now! But before you do, leave fingerprints on every fucking window in that house.

Mark... since it cannot be said enough.... you're an asshole.

Guy living in the Roach Motel needs to get his own place. And clean himself and his living space. I thought he was going to throw up at the airport. The whole time she was hugging him, I kept waiting for a roach to pop out of his pocket. If she can overcome the filth and his nightlife lifestyle, they might make it.

Devar... a wife beater shirt to meet your fiance's family? Really? Melanie's vocal fry... do they have to have one each season? And enough with the father figure talk, he lives with his dad as often as he is with his mother. I'd love to know what he thinks about his kid being on this show, and everything that goes with it.

Frankly, I hope none of these people get married. Except Alexandra and Josh, they seem the most genuinely in love couple of the bunch. They are cute together. I find myself smiling when I watch them interacting. As long as his parents aren't around.

Oh, and Mark... you're an asshole. With dumb-looking jeans.

[greekmom]

Despite the fact that Josh and Aleksandra are too young I think he really cares for her. His parent though. Oy vey!  They both have something stuck up their rear end.  Why would they even tell them she was a dancer?  How about “oh she worked in a bar”.  I think the parents are the type that are we preach the word, we convert but we don’t frolic with those we convert because of their past. Other than that, I think the girl just is a bit insecure.
Mark and Nikki. That’s just  train wreck. I’ve said enough.  Cooksdelight I think you nailed it on the head. Mark you are an asshole.
Kyle and Noon. Just run girl. Cockroaches in the house? Disgusting. I think he wants a mommy/maid. Girl doesn’t even really want to be in the States. Just run back to Thailand.
Melanie and Devar. I can’t see them working it out. I know they will go through with it but probably not for the long haul.

[BradandJanet]

I cringe when Marks talks to Nikki like she's five years old. Oh wait. He talks to his own daughter the same way. Does the man use contractions, or must he enunciate every. single. word? 

[BradandJanet]

I got the creeps when Mark and Nikki snuggled up under the covers of his bed and turned off the light. Blech.

[MrsSmartyPants]

During the Mormon date with matching tie/dress (wtf??) Aleksandra said "I am a bad person going down the wrong path but that changed the day I became a woman".

Well, that's what I *thought* she said. She actually said "... The day I became a Mormon" and a huge part of me was disappointed because THAT would have made their segments a WHOLE lot more interesting.

[charmed1]

During the Mormon date with matching tie/dress (wtf??) Aleksandra said "I am a bad person going down the wrong path but that changed the day I became a woman".

Well, that's what I *thought* she said. She actually said "... The day I became a Mormon" and a huge part of me was disappointed because THAT would have made their segments a WHOLE lot more interesting.

Ha! I thought she said woman too. I was hoping her fiancé would correct her when she said that she was a bad person. I hope he did and it was just edited out. Because if not, I feel sorry for her. It's Amy 2.0 with another bright, educated young woman feeling like she has to prove her worth to some religulous family in West Bumfuck, USA.

The cockroach guy and his equally disgusting Otto the Bus Driver roommate cannot get off my screen fast enough. Poor Noon. Never been to the U.S. and her first experience is that? I want Nikki to take Mark's car, drive cross country, pick up Noon and Aleksandra, and head for the airport.

No way is Devar into Melanie. He can fake it until he makes it, but I predict he finds a Jamaican-American pretty young thing within a year.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Melanie's vocal fry is SO bad. It makes me have to take deeper breaths just listening to it! Like slamming the nonexistent brakes from the passenger seat... it just won't stop!

I laughed out loud when Mark called Nikki "immature." She is literally a teenager, you dolt. She's right on schedule. For a teenager. Whose age ends in "teen." You know, like your kids' ages A FEW YEARS AGO. Ugh.

[Mar78]

Did anyone notice when Mark was talking to Nikki in the guest bedroom about his ex-wife or some such, and she leaned over to kiss him, he immediately shut up and said "ah, we should go to bed." Gross.

And poor Nikki. I have to say, if she is a scammer, she's doing a better job than Mohammed did last season! She wasn't flinching from him at all. Maybe she has developed feelings for him after all.

I think Alexandra is adorable, and Josh is so moony over her. They are actually fun to watch, at least without the parents there to ruin it.

Was that Melanie's ex at the house when she came home with Devar? I was having some satellite issues, so I missed the introductions. He kind of looked like Melanie's son.

[Dahlia]

I wondered who that guy was too. They never identified him, that I saw , so I was thinking the same thing ....

[poeticlicensed]

OMG more shots of Mark sans shirt. He must really think he's something to be parading around in front of the cameras like that. So much disturbing stuff. He told her to keep he hands off the window because he always demands that of his children (hint, she is not your child}, calling out Nikki for being immature (um , acting like a teenager?) and the pictures. I saw the placement of those pictures as a threat to Nikki to behave or she will be out like wife number 1. We have only heard his side of what happened, my guess is there would be a very different story from her. And every divorced person I know gives those family pics to their kids and doesn't keep them in their bedroom. Just weird. 

 

Kyle and Noon - Dude, if you want Noon to be comfortable, move. That set up is not going to be good for your relationship, between the general filth and your weirdo roommate. Hint, I doubt your vacuum gets rid of roaches.  

 

The Mormon couple (sorry I don't have all the names straight yet). I find the amount of jaw clenching by his family hilarious. Remember, he was on a mission trip and was the one who converted her, so how can his parents disapprove without undermining the whole idea of mission trips. So she is god enough to convert but not good enough for your son? They can't say anything and it's killing them. When she told them about the drunk wedding tradition in Russia, at least the dad didn't speak for all of the US (unlike Danny's dad) and say that was unacceptable. I actually thought it sounded fun. Granny's house was so Granny. 

 

Loren and Alexi - she should not have forced a meeting right after he got off the plane. At least let him take a shower. I loved how dad was all don't break my daughter's heart, and it totally fell flat. I don't blame Alexi for being hesitant about living with her parents. Any normal person would be. 

 

Mel, do you smile. Her TH's are so deadpan. That relationship has trainwreck all over it. Just wait until it gets cold. They have zero in common. I loved how Mel was talking about how thoughtful she was before entering a serious relationship. 19 days is the extent of their relationship, how serious can it be?

 

Once again, no one seems to understand the purpose of a K1 visa. It isn't meant to bring someone over to see if it works out. The idea is that you already know you are getting married. More than one one couple intimated that getting the K1 was like a trial run, or lets see if it works out. ARGH!

[greekmom]

I got the creeps when Mark and Nikki snuggled up under the covers of his bed and turned off the light. Blech.

I almost puked when he gave her that fish mouth kiss at the table outside and the whole snuggle thing. Really my stomach is turning right now.

[cooksdelight]

Maybe the old geezer has false teeth and he's afraid they will pop out if he tries a normal kiss.

[Neurochick]

Maybe the old geezer has false teeth and he's afraid they will pop out if he tries a normal kiss.

 

Because 55 is old?  I don't think so.

[Toaster Strudel]

I thought he was 58.

[gunderda]

Well I think so far so good with most of the couples.  Everyone that came to the US seems to be very into their partners. 

Nikki really shocked me - so she must really like him.   I don't think it's going to end well in a few years, but more power to them. 

 

Poor Noon has to lived in a roach infested house :(  So disgusting.  They can't even move because the roaches likely have put eggs everywhere so they will move with them.  BLEH!

[poeticlicensed]

I don't consider 58 or 55 on it's own to be old geezer territory (please, I am somewhere between those two ages myself), it's the juxtaposition of the two ages which is creepy and weird. I work at a university, so I spend my days with the 18-22 year old crowd. I could not imagine for one second dating or marrying one of those infants. Something ain't right with Mark. 

[cooksdelight]

Because 55 is old?  I don't think so.

Uh, I was kidding. :) I'll be 56 in a couple of weeks myself.

But when I see him with a teenager, he comes across as a perv, a geezer, a whatever-you-want-to-call-him.

[wovenloaf]

Was that Melanie's ex at the house when she came home with Devar? I was having some satellite issues, so I missed the introductions. He kind of looked like Melanie's son.

 

I wondered who that guy was too. They never identified him, that I saw , so I was thinking the same thing ....

Yeah I was wondering that too. When Melanie and Devar first got there, that guy was standing towards the back of the room with the son, so I thought that might be his dad. But then in the later scenes, they weren't really interacting... I feel like they would have mentioned it if he was the dad. And he seemed a little too casual about "father figure #2" waltzing in the door. 

 

Melanie kills me with the "I can't wait for Devar to be a father figure"... to my child that ALREADY HAS A FATHER. That he lives 5 days a week!

 

What on earth is up with these people expecting their foreigners to meet the family as soon as they get off the plane. Loren making Alexi meet his new roomies/parents after a 13 hour flight, and then Melanie with a whole house full of people trying to hug Devar as soon as they get back from the airport. Get a grip people. Let the man brush his teeth first or something. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by wovenloaf

[Primetimer]

...Asks the proprietor of a roach motel. The 90 Day Fiancé couples get to know each other better/worse! Who's on top this week?

Read the story

[cooksdelight]

LMAO, Stephanie's recap is hilarious. Yeah, they should have called this episode "Going Down To Pound Town"... I had totally forgotten that little tidbit!

[LillysPad]

I got the creeps when Mark and Nikki snuggled up under the covers of his bed and turned off the light. Blech.

In the morning Mark woke to the sounds of Nikki hacking up a hairball or two.

[LillysPad]

When Melanie was bring Devar home she said her Mom and friends were there with Hunter. Could that man have been the friends husband?

We always have one house that is a pig sty before the woman gets there. If it wasn't for the swiffer man from last season, we would have been shown two houses!

Loren is in for a rude awakening of real life rules.

[trimthatfat]

It's clear that Melanie and Devar are compatible physically based on how much they can't stop kissing, but way more than that is needed to sustain a marriage. When a child is involved, I think it's foolish to move someone you've known for only a month or so into the home.

 

I'd love to hear why wife #1 bolted. Not from Mark, but from her or one of the children.

[cooksdelight]

You kind of have to cross-reference things shown and said on the show with what the couples say on TLC's 90-Day Fiance Facebook page. I won't post any spoilers, but suffice it to say that Melanie and Devar spent more than just a short amount of time together. I think that is one of the biggest complaints the couples have about the show's editing -- that it makes it look like they barely know one another.

[charmed1]

Well I think so far so good with most of the couples. Everyone that came to the US seems to be very into their partners.

Nikki really shocked me - so she must really like him. I don't think it's going to end well in a few years, but more power to them.

Poor Noon has to lived in a roach infested house :( So disgusting. They can't even move because the roaches likely have put eggs everywhere so they will move with them. BLEH!

I know right? If I were Noon, I wouldn't even take my stuff out of the suitcase. I can't believe the gross roommate was walking around butter ball naked in front of the camera and in such filth. I can't imagine how gross their bathroom must be.

[CourtneyCourt]

I was truly shocked with Nikki's reaction. I completely expected a Danielle and Mo type of hug relationship. Nope, she kissed him!! And the fish mouth kiss! I just have a feeling his breath is bad. Lots of props to Nikki, she even opted to sleep with him.

Love Kyle and Noon, but hate that he has a dirty house and roommate.

Devar and Michelle, uh, he didn't know that PA doesn't have a beach? Wouldn't he have researched the area just a little? He has no idea what he is in for with the weather here (I live on the western side of PA). Boy, is he is for a cloudy, cold shock!

I stil don't understand why Loren must move back in with her parents? She said the K1 Visa was a financial strain, but enough to have to give up your apartment and lose a good job?

[gunderda]

I think it would be nice to learn from each couple about who pays for the fees and K1.  Do the couple pay together?  Does one pay it all? Do their parents help??

Most of these couples don't seem like they would have near enough money to even start the process or take the trips that they're meeting their fiance on.

[Raja]

I think it would be nice to learn from each couple about who pays for the fees and K1.  Do the couple pay together?  Does one pay it all? Do their parents help??

Most of these couples don't seem like they would have near enough money to even start the process or take the trips that they're meeting their fiance on.

Its only around a grand with another for stuff like government approved surgeons checking vaccinations. Normally the citizen making the petition is the one with money otherwise the US citizen will be an expat to another country and in the next TLC series. 

[islandgal140]

Does Mark only own that one red polo shirt? Feels like it is the only thing I've seen him in since the show started. Anyway.... Mark saying that he feels he knows Nikki so much better than he knew his first wife who changed upon US arrival. Huh?!? You mean the Nikki he proposed to after knowing 2 days and is just discovering is immature for you know ... a 19 yr old? That Nikki? The stupid. It burns!! If smudged windows kills Mark's happiness well, my the lawd have mercy on your soul Nikki, but than again a girl who proclaims that intimacy with Mark is perfect is way beyond a prayer circle. Got to hand it to her she seems very sincere. Times must be hard in the Philippines. I will pay Mark 1 compliment. It was gentlemanly for him to offer her a separate bedroom and not assume that they would be sharing a bed before marriage. I wouldn't have near as much trouble with this relationship if Nikki were at least 10 years older. It would still be a might skeezy but no where near as it is now. The gap between 19 and 58 is just too damn much. 

 

Kyle and Noon - I actually thought it was sweet and cute that he was so nervous and in tears at the airport. At the end he seemed really happy to see her and couldn't stop looking at her and kissing her. The feeling seemed mutual on her part. However, moving her into the real life version of Joe's Apartment? No bueno. He had what sounded like months waiting for your fiancee to get a visa. I LOL when he looked around the bedroom and said this is the best the place every looked. Then I saw his lumpy ass comforter and it seemed like he just hid things under his bed covers. Meanwhile, roaches are climbing up the walls, dead roach carcasses seem to be in the sink, place is full of clutter and trash littered on the floor. Boy!!! He should have fumigated that place or hell, moved if he doesn't own it and the lease allowed. He is 28 damn years old and about to get married. Time to ditch the roommate. I don't even really understand how they met. He was planning a trip to Thailand and somehow they met on social media and she offered to meet him and show him around? Is she a guide by career choice? Or just something she offered to do just because of .... reasons???? I suppose in the grand scheme of things meeting someone online is probably no more dangerous than meeting them in person.

 

I really do feel sorry for the recent arrivals that have to meet a gauntlet of critical judging friends and relatives when the engine on their plane is still smoking. Can't they catch their breath? Freshen up? Use the facilities? Damn!! 

 

Melanie's son is really cute and seems like such a sweet boy. I don't blame her for being anxious and wanting her new man and her son to get along and to hopefully down the road develop a comfortable relationship but all this wanting Devar to be a father figure stuff out of the gate is just ridiculous.  The boy has a father who for all intents and purposes seems to have primary custody of his son Monday-Friday. Stop beating that drum Mel. It was a relief to see at least the first wave of friends/relatives of Mel's was at least welcoming and nice to Devar upon arrival before the questioning begins. 

 

Devar's first winter should be interesting. I am a 1st generation West Indian myself and recent immigrants or even those just visiting who come and experience their first winter just lose all sense of color coordination, fashion sense and intention to look cute when faced with their 1st 40 degree day let alone snow. LOL!!!

 

Josh's dad Judgy McJudgerson is so ridiculous. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by islandgal140

[PityFree]

This episode made me think that most of the people coming to the US are getting creep-ed out by the way their future spouses' friends and family members hug them immediately upon meeting. I have always hated the hugging-upon-meeting thing. What's wrong with a nice handshake? Why not do a nice non-hugging air kiss on both cheeks? Poor Devar was groped by all of Mel's friends the second he walked in the door.

[merylinkid]

 

Devar and Michelle, uh, he didn't know that PA doesn't have a beach?

Clearly he used to watch All My Children.

[greekmom]

Does Mark only own that one red polo shirt? Feels like it is the only thing I've seen him in since the show started. Anyway.... Mark saying that he feels he knows Nikki so much better than he knew his first wife who changed upon US arrival. Huh?!? You mean the Nikki he proposed to after knowing 2 days and is just discovering is immature for you know ... a 19 yr old? That Nikki? The stupid. It burns!! If smudged windows kills Mark's happiness well, my the lawd have mercy on your soul Nikki, but than again a girl who proclaims that intimacy with Mark is perfect is way beyond a prayer circle. Got to hand it to her she seems very sincere. Times must be hard in the Philippines. I will pay Mark 1 compliment. It was gentlemanly for him to offer her a separate bedroom and not assume that they would be sharing a bed before marriage. I wouldn't have near as much trouble with this relationship if Nikki were at least 10 years older. It would still be a might skeezy but no where near as it is now. The gap between 19 and 58 is just too damn much. 

I wouldn't have an issue if he was 68 and she was 29. Still the same amount of years in between but she would have been alot older and have known herself and the world a bit.  Heck, 25 and 64 would have been passable as well.  The problem is that the girl is still a teenager, barely legal and he said he met her when she was 16(!?!? please correct me on this point if i am wrong).

I will also give Mark one more compliment of keeping a CLEAN home. Kyle can use some pointers in this area.  He needs to just burn that house down and all it's contents due to the garbage and roaches.  I understand bachelors and unkempt homes or some mess. But this house is down right DIRTY.  TLC's hoarders would be proud. 

[Pepper Mostly]

So....I guess Dirk's suit and tie are this season's swiffer? Seriously, the man attends a backyard cookout/birthday party as his own home in a suit and tie??

 

I have no words. Mark is Skeevy McSkeeverson. Kyle and Noon seem sweet and I'm sure she will have him out of that fleapit in no time. Alexandra and Josh are also cute but I have real issues with how she frequently runs herself down. Wearing a short skirt and dancing in a club at the age of 20 is not a one way ticket on the Perdition Express. Josh and all his family lining up to let her know that she was Sinful and will have to Atone is not sitting well with me.

 

Is Devar playing to the camera with the dumbo act? I think he's after a modeling gig and this show is his via aperta.

[Neurochick]

I don't consider 58 or 55 on it's own to be old geezer territory (please, I am somewhere between those two ages myself), it's the juxtaposition of the two ages which is creepy and weird. I work at a university, so I spend my days with the 18-22 year old crowd. I could not imagine for one second dating or marrying one of those infants. Something ain't right with Mark. 

 

That's true.  But I think Mark is a bit immature himself.  He seems like a person who never grew up past twenty-one.  A real Peter Pan.

[cooksdelight]

That's true.  But I think Mark is a bit immature himself.  He seems like a person who never grew up past twenty-one.  A real Peter Pan.

That is exactly what I was calling him last night!! He is exactly like a kid!

[sleepyjean]

The thing that interests me this season is we have some fiancees who seeemed perfectly happy where they were, and would be just fine if they had to go home again. 

 

Your kids don't live with you anymore, no reason to have framed photos out in your bedroom of your ex-wife on the day she arrives.

As others have said, leaving that photo out was very deliberate. I just can't put my finger on why. Possibly it was to intimidate Nikki. Possibly it was so he could make a big show of replacing it (exactly the way he did). Possibly because he thinks he looks damn good in that photo, and just likes having it around.

I got the creeps when Mark and Nikki snuggled up under the covers of his bed and turned off the light. Blech.

How about those Zebra sheets? Mark, you wild man, you.

 

Mark is selling the story that the wife just changed overnight and took off. We're definitely not getting the whole story there. She stuck around long enough to have four children with him, so she put up with him for a good long time. If she really took off, never to be seen again (which he seems to be implying) I can't imagine why the kids would want photos of her around the house. It wouldn't surprise me to find out she lives just down the road and still sees the kids all the time.

 

I don't blame Alexei for being hesitant about living with her parents. Any normal person would be.

Did they not discuss this Florida plan before he got on the plane? Loren's surprise that he's not excited about staying with her folks betrays either a stunning lack of empathy, or a level of self-absorption that does not bode well for the relationship. Possibly both. In either case, it seems like only a matter of time until we hear "If you really loved me, you wouldn't have a problem with living with my parents."

 

Aside from that, I don't really get this couple's plan. Is he going to hang out in Canada, while he waits to be approved?  That seems like an expensive plan. Why not wait until he is approved before flying all the way out here?

 

I almost puked when he gave her that fish mouth kiss at the table outside and the whole snuggle thing.

Seriously, what was that? If a dude came at me with a mouth like that, I'd back way the hell up.

 

If smudged windows kills Mark's happiness well, my the lawd have mercy on your soul Nikki

I enjoyed the fact that she immediately put her hand on the window again. I hope she challenges him every single time he tries to instruct her on the finer points of how he expects for their lives to go from now on. I'm sure we've only seen the tip of the iceberg as far as his rules and regulations go.

 

Mark is an interesting guy. He seems to want people to think he's a laid-back kind of guy, but you barely need to scratch the surface to see how rigid he is.

 

Poor Devar was groped by all of Mel's friends the second he walked in the door.

He seemed so uncomfortable with that first hug, but he was a good sport and rolled with it. He seemed to be on his best behavior, but he also seems like a pleasant, well-mannered, easy going guy, who is game to give this a legit shot. If he's only acting like a good guy, he's doing a pretty good job of it so far.

[cooksdelight]

Regarding all the hugging, I've learned from watching The Amazing Race that people in other countries are not as hug-happy as we are. Most don't have any physical contact with strangers they just met, aside from a polite nod hello and perhaps a handshake.

Sleepyjean, if you read the info in Mark & Nikki's thread, you'll get more background on the family dynamic. The 90-Day Fiance Facebook page is also full of info from his daughter.

[Kiss my mutt]

Does anyone know what Josh does for a living and how he will support Aleksandra? I grow weary of kids expecting parents to just go along with their adult decisions without being able to behave like adults.

I don't think it is possible for Mark to creep me out any more than I'm creeped out but I have a feeling he will surpass it. What a fool and a tool.

[OhioMom]

I thought he was 58.

Still not "geezer" worthy...said this 50-year-old.

[Straycat80]

Devar seems like a nice guy. Melanie needs to stop saying 'father figure' do much, her son has a father who's apparently in the picture.

How long does it take to convert to Mormonism? Did Aleksandra convert in Prague? I wish she would stop beating herself up for acting like a normal young woman who used to go out and have fun.

Kyle needs to get rid of the roommate and get a cleaner apartment. He did seem to really love Noon though.

Mark and Nikki. I have nothing else to add that's already been said. Nikki looks younger than 19 to me.

[OhioMom]

I was truly shocked with Nikki's reaction. I completely expected a Danielle and Mo type of hug relationship. Nope, she kissed him!! And the fish mouth kiss! I just have a feeling his breath is bad. Lots of props to Nikki, she even opted to sleep with him.

Love Kyle and Noon, but hate that he has a dirty house and roommate.

Devar and Michelle, uh, he didn't know that PA doesn't have a beach? Wouldn't he have researched the area just a little? He has no idea what he is in for with the weather here (I live on the western side of PA). Boy, is he is for a cloudy, cold shock!

I stil don't understand why Loren must move back in with her parents? She said the K1 Visa was a financial strain, but enough to have to give up your apartment and lose a good job?

Hey! PA's got a beach! It's up near Lake Erie!

[Quof]

She told him there was a lake, he wanted to know if he could go spear fishing in it. 

[OhioMom]

OMG...Melanie is such a drama queen!  You'd think Devar was going to his execution, instead of going in to meet her family for the first time.  "Are you ready?" "Are you ready?"  "So...inside are going to be like...5 people." "Are you ready?"

 

And yes...Devar is skeevy!   Getting a tour from Hunter, and going on and on about Mom's bed...how big it is...how comfortable it is...these are NOT things you talk to a little kid about. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by OhioMom

[elm]

Just from doing mission work around the world, sometimes I find locals for tours, maybe that is what happened with Noon