Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[ArtTypeGirl]

Oh thank  God… I have been fretting all day wondering if it was just me. 
Listen, I don't have a problem what anyone wants to do as long as it won't harm another. Really. I have no time to police the world and I don't pretend to be the keeper of all that is right or wrong. Bruce wanted to be a woman.. go for it. But this whole thing is a huge pile of ick for me. First of all, yeah, the name bugs me. I get he wanted to do a cute FU to the K names by picking a "Could have been a K" name but seriously, names are generational and there were no Caitlins when I was a kid, so forget about 20 years before to Bruce's childhood. But again, I say Whatever floats his boat. 
But then I see the pictures and it feels like her understanding of what it means to be a women is makeup and painted nails and clothes and big fake boobs and I am just sitting here thinking, "WTF? My life isn't about all of that material bulls%$t! It means way more than that surface stuff." I can wear sweats and not have polish on my nails and it has nothing to do with it. I don't know how to quantify or qualify being a woman but I just feel like she is living a mockery of what it is to be a woman (not too unlike the rest of the Kardashians, interestingly enough). Anyway, if Caitlin were my friend I would say to stop being such a jerk off with the surface bull bc it is insulting. 
And then I read how the "story" will be on KUWTK and I was like, Of COURSE it will be. Barf. I am so over everyone involved with the Kardashians but I guess they will never leave our rag mag covers now. 

AND PS: It also seems like there is a lot of pressure for everyone to just exclaim how beautiful she is and if you don't you will be labeled as not supportive of the transgender community. Sad part is, Caitlin is setting such a standard for the rest of the transgender world and I feel like everywhere are transgender people that cannot possibly afford the plastic surgery or wardrobe or Annie Lebowitz photo shoots to look "beautiful" so they will be left to feel "less than" Caitlin, the self-proclaimed Face of the Transgender community. That's too bad.
I don't know, I don't mean to be rude, I am just being honest. And I am really glad that there were other people that felt similarly. 
Either way, good luck to her. It ain't easy being a woman in a still-largely male world. 

 
 

Edited June 2, 2015 by ArtTypeGirl

[iwasish]

Bruce was so into golf and now we read that he has to learn to golf with his newly huge chest. Wouldn't that be something he would have thought of before getting the Kardashian sized implants. Why make a choice that will take a previously fun activity and disrupt it?. Not like he didn't know big tits are a negative in golf. The Kgirls complained about it. I'm seeing that Bruce's idea of a woman is so stereotypical of all that hes been surrounded by over the last 25 years. Nothing more than the photographed images of sexuality, the flashes of skin, the pouty, sultry looks. Like a perfume ad. There's so much more to being a woman. I keep hearing Peggy Lee singing " Is That All There Is"

Edited June 2, 2015 by iwasish

[JenMcSnark]

OTOH, as a "new" woman, look at the examples she has been living with these past 20+ years, like Kylie, she has only grown up with only slutty examples of woman hood and that's what she reflects-Am I making any sense?

I think as a 65 yea,r old she could have gone with a more mature name and look, if she wanted to be taken seriously.

 

I would like to think, if it were me, I would own it.  I would be saying I chose this name to remain close to my daughters...it's something that can connect us by being similar but not a "K" name.  I would say something like after all this time spent in the wrong gender, I'm relishing the opportunity to be pretty...to make myself up and wear fancy clothes.

 

Maybe she's going to say stuff like that, but it all just feels very PR driven and disingenuous to me.  Like others, I really hope this helps the LGBT community and others who are struggling.  But do I really believe that was Bruce's motivation for all of this dog and pony show?  Hell no.   

Edited June 2, 2015 by JenMcSnark

[hottesthw]

How about taking the famewhore money, and putting it where your mouth is? How about funding a foundation which helps young transgender people who have no access to counseling, surgery, hormones, maybe need a temporary home and help getting a job?

I'll eat my words if she does so, but right now, I'm just seeing an avaricious old woman who wants attention and money.

This!!

Personally I don't see how she can be seen as some spokesperson for the trans community (as Bruce supposedly stated in his previous interview). People are seriously out there struggling, being humiliated and discriminated against and she thinks putting on a show where 3 women take him around town shopping is going to shine a light to help end the struggle? Please! I may he wrong, but I would doubt anyone truly suffering thru these decisions now see Caitlin as some kind of hero to look up to. The Kardashians are making a mockery of this IMO and it pisses me off.

Edited June 2, 2015 by OnceSane

[lillypforme]

Caitlyn would never be able to convince E to do that type of show.  There won't be an audience for it. 

 

Whereas I'm pretty sure that all the critics, naysayers will be watching the series with Caitlyn.

ABC Family actually is putting out that type of show- produced by Seacrest. Becoming Us.

http://www.people.com/article/abc-family-becoming-us-transgender-show

[Artsda]

Burt really has issues with Bruce, not sure if he'll find what he's looking for with Caitlyn. Nothing will make up for all those years missed.

 

Burt Jenner: “I have high hopes that Caitlyn is a better person than Bruce.”

And Burt's sister Cassandra saying that when Caitlyn debuted to her is the most they've ever spoken and talked says a lot about the relationship there as well.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Artsda

[howmanywords]

But then I see the pictures and it feels like her understanding of what it means to be a women is makeup and painted nails and clothes and big fake boobs and I am just sitting here thinking, "WTF? My life isn't about all of that material bulls%$t! It means way more than that surface stuff." I can wear sweats and not have polish on my nails and it has nothing to do with it. I don't know how to quantify or qualify being a woman but I just feel like she is living a mockery of what it is to be a woman (not too unlike the rest of the Kardashians, interestingly enough). Anyway, if Caitlin were my friend I would say to stop being such a jerk off with the surface bull bc it is insulting. 

 

If you were doing a photoshoot for a major magazine cover you would wear sweats and no makeup? If/when Caitlyn starts walking around everyday looking like this I'll say she's trying to look like a stereotypical woman..but for her first big reveal on a major magazine cover? I'm cutting her an awful lot of slack. I dont think wanting to look beautiful for a big reveal makes her look like a jerk.  And getting a boob job is no different than Chaz Bono or any other female to male getting their breasts removed IMO.

[JAYJAY1979]

Wish her luck, and I co sign.that for.a.big debut one wants to look their best so.no different here.

http://www.chicagonow.com/confessions-coffeeholic/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-debut-pride-month/

[Artsda]

Caitlyn Jenner's Family Reacts to Her Vanity Fair Cover Debut: Kim and Khloe Kardashian, Kendall Jenner, More
 

From Vanity Fair - Kim tonight at the CFDA awards on Caitlyn:

 

“She is so beautiful,” “The cover is perfect,” “I'm so proud. I'm glad she can be herself finally. I'm so happy it's out—the suspense. It makes me want to shout out for joy. Absolutely!"

 

Edited June 2, 2015 by Artsda

[Janet Snakehole]

I don't really see the issue with the name Caitlyn. Yes, it was not around until the 80's, but from what I understand the 80's was about the time Bruce originally considered transitioning. I don't blame Caitlyn for selecting a name that was popular then and popular now. I don't quite think it fits appearance wise personally, but what the hell do I know, Caitlyn has not really exposed her personality yet.

[Fostersmom]

Burt really has issues with Bruce, not sure if he'll find what he's looking for with Caitlyn. Nothing will make up for all those years missed.

 

And Burt's sister Cassandra saying that when Caitlyn debuted to her is the most they've ever spoken and talked says a lot about the relationship there as well.

 

It seems Burt and Casey lucked out, they got the softer side of Caitlyn….Brandon got a creepy peep show. Granted, I have seen my mom's boobs more than I care to, but you know, she's always had them and wasn't just waving them at me. 

[Watcher0363]

Sorry for the soft hate. But will Ashton Kutcher please throw open the door and demand that all media bow down to him. For the "punked" of the century. Make it stop Bruce, Caitlyn, Ashton, Ru Paul. Somebody make it stop!! (said in Captain Kirk over the top scene chewing tone.).

[jonesingjay]

She'll receive the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the Espy's, good for Caitlyn and I wish her nothing but the best.

[millennium]

She'll receive the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the Espy's, good for Caitlyn and I wish her nothing but the best.

 

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.    

 

He faced virtually none of the risks other transgender people do and will never experience any of the prejudice and rejection they do.   Most transgender people emerge from the closet greeted by loss of friends and family, loss of jobs, loss of personal and financial security, even loss of freedom to use a public bathroom suited to their new status  -- not greeted by Annie Liebowitz and Diane Sawyer.

 

Jenner has unleashed upon the world a wholly unrealistic view of what it means to be transgender.   He has also created a wildly false impression of the results transgender people can achieve.    The average transgender person doesn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on themselves.   They don't have a media machine at their disposal.   They don't have make-up artists, wardrobe consultants and award-winning photographers to present them to the world.    They'll never look like Jenner does in those pictures -- even Jenner doesn't look like that in real life.    It's a fucking illusion but the public is lapping it right up.    Other transgender people have to venture out into the world and find a job, looking the best they can, even if they don't pass, even if they know everyone is staring at them and laughing behind their backs.   They don't have a choice.   And a majority end up working demeaning and dangerous sex jobs because nobody else will have them.   Others just kill themselves because the world has no use for them.

 

Jenner's "journey" is no more real than the person in those photoshopped pictures.

 

But everyone's hot to cash in on Jenner's new 15 minutes, so what if it debases the intent and meaning of the Ashe award?   I'm sure it has nothing to do with guaranteeing high ratings for ESPN's award show this year ...

 

Since we're on the topic of courage, where was Bruce Jenner's courage when he lied to the police about why he crashed into that woman and killed her?  

 

Or are we just supposed to forget about her now?

Edited June 2, 2015 by millennium

[karenc3]

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.    

 

He faced virtually none of the risks other transgender people do and will never experience any of the prejudice and rejection they do.   Most transgender people emerge from the closet greeted by loss of friends and family, loss of jobs, loss of personal and financial security, even loss of freedom to use a public bathroom suited to their new status  -- not greeted by Annie Liebowitz and Diane Sawyer.

 

 

 

He would probably have lost more if he had done this years ago instead of now, when things are being more accepted. Part of this is to show how he struggled all these years with this.

 

And no, the average person doesn't have the advantages that Caitlynn had during her transition, but such a famous person being so public is going to help the average person to gain acceptance themselves. 

[mwell345]

 

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.   

 

He faced virtually none of the risks other transgender people do and will never experience any of the prejudice and rejection they do.   Most transgender people emerge from the closet greeted by loss of friends and family, loss of jobs, loss of personal and financial security, even loss of freedom to use a public bathroom suited to their new status  -- not greeted by Annie Liebowitz and Diane Sawyer.

 

I have an issue with him receiving the award too. I just can't put Caitlin in the same category as the other recipients.

 

"The Ashe Award is one of the most prestigious in sports. Recipients reflect the spirit of Arthur Ashe, possessing strength in the face of adversity, courage in the face of peril and the willingness to stand up for their beliefs no matter what the cost. The award is inspired by the life that Ashe lived, using his fame and stature to advocate for human rights, although, at the time, those positions may have been unpopular and were often controversial. From speaking out against apartheid in South Africa to revealing to the world his struggle with AIDS, Ashe never backed away from a difficult issue, even though doing so would have been easier. Winners of the Ashe Award strive to carry on Ashe's legacy in their own lives - - inspired by those who do so each day."

 

http://espn.go.com/espys/arthurasheaward

 

Yes, Caitin transgendered - I get it - but with lots of money, the support of practically the entire nation, celebrities, etc.  While I am not doubting his struggle, I'm not really seeing it as deserving of this award at this time - maybe in a year or so, when there's been time to gauge how much of a positive influence he has been on others struggling with the same issues - ie, as someone else said - actively working in the community, starting a foundation...

 

Flight 93 passengers received this award. Dean Smith received this award because of his civil rights work.  Billie Jean King did more for women's sports than any other women, and was a gay women in a time when that was not widely acceptable, another door she helped open. Pat and Kevin Tillman received this award.

 

It dilutes the award to me, because it seems like ESPN is just jumping on the Caitlin bandwagon.  Again, maybe next year, not now.

 

I'm not saying Caitlin did not show courage - but just that I disagree with her getting this award at this time.

 

And I think we can all bank on the Kardashians filming the awards ceremony for their show with Kim, probably Kanye, Kris, etc. in attendance.  

 

It just diminishes it.

 

JMHO

Edited June 2, 2015 by mwell345

[millennium]

And no, the average person doesn't have the advantages that Caitlynn had during her transition, but such a famous person being so public is going to help the average person to gain acceptance themselves. 

 

I understand this is the party line, but I respectfully disagree.     It won't help the average transgender person gain much at all, except perhaps an unfair comparison to Jenner and the fantasy image manufactured with all of Bruce's financial and media resources.

[xls]

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.    

 

He faced virtually none of the risks other transgender people do and will never experience any of the prejudice and rejection they do.   Most transgender people emerge from the closet greeted by loss of friends and family, loss of jobs, loss of personal and financial security, even loss of freedom to use a public bathroom suited to their new status  -- not greeted by Annie Liebowitz and Diane Sawyer.

 

Jenner has unleashed upon the world a wholly unrealistic view of what it means to be transgender.   He has also created a wildly false impression of the results transgender people can achieve.    The average transgender person doesn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on themselves.   They don't have a media machine at their disposal.   They don't have make-up artists, wardrobe consultants and award-winning photographers to present them to the world.    They'll never look like Jenner does in those pictures -- even Jenner doesn't look like that in real life.    It's a fucking illusion but the public is lapping it right up.    Other transgender people have to venture out into the world and find a job, looking the best they can, even if they don't pass, even if they know everyone is staring at them and laughing behind their backs.   They don't have a choice.   And a majority end up working demeaning and dangerous sex jobs because nobody else will have them.   Others just kill themselves because the world has no use for them.

 

Jenner's "journey" is no more real than the person in those photoshopped pictures.

 

But everyone's hot to cash in on Jenner's new 15 minutes, so what if it debases the intent and meaning of the Ashe award?   I'm sure it has nothing to do with guaranteeing high ratings for ESPN's award show this year ...

 

Since we're on the topic of courage, where was Bruce Jenner's courage when he lied to the police about why he crashed into that woman and killed her?  

 

Or are we just supposed to forget about her now?

A big AMEN, to your post! Sorry if I don't bow to the pressure to gush all over her, her ass ain't special to me, I'll be as critical of her as I am to any other reality star, so there.

[BitterApple]

Yeah, the Arthur Ashe award is a bit much, I don't think it's deserved in this case. It seems like the media is tripping over itself in its adulation of Caitlyn. I don't begrudge her getting support, but this experience is not typical for Transgender people.

[bichonblitz]

Diane Sawyer interview. Then the two part episodes on the Kardashians show, the Vanity Fair interview and photo shoot. I, for one, have seen enough. And heard enough. Because Caitlyn has said the same things over and over. It's done, now go live your life, and fade into the Malibu sunset with your millions and the forgiveness of your kids who you have treated like crap all of their lives. Maybe she will concentrate on being a better mother than she ever was a father. Doubt it.  

 

I am not looking forward to the endless paparazzi photo's of her going to Starbucks, driving around town and doing what ever else she does on a daily,boring, lonely basis, just so we can see what she is wearing and whether she does or doesn't have make-up and nails done on that day.  

Edited June 2, 2015 by bichonblitz

[Sharonana]

I'm not gushing either and was glad to see there are some that feel the same way. All the I'm so happy for her stuff...bleh. The name is ridiculously immature for his age. If he's still got his stuff, is he not still a male? If it was my father, I would be so devastated. The man you have known all your life is now mom. Heartbreaking! I feel for his ex wives too...yes even Kris. All those years together would feel like a lie.  Bruce has money and let's face it, that makes what he's doing so much easier than the countless number of those who want to transgender and can't afford it. So I don't think what he's doing is so heroic or stoic or brave or attach any adjective you want to it. I think he's confused still. The pictures were photo shopped from here to kingdom come. I'd like to see what he looks like going to Walmart....no heavy make or hair extensions or fans blowing the hair around. Eh...what do I know...to each their own.

[mwell345]

 

I'd like to see what he looks like going to Walmart....no heavy make or hair extensions or fans blowing the hair around.

 

LOL - he would probably show up on that People of Walmart site.

[Snarryfan]

Just because she has male genitalia she is not a man--gender and biological sex are two entirely different issues. Most trans people do not undergo genital reassignment. For one thing: it is expensive. Secondly, there is great deal of mistrust on behalf of the trans community towards the medical community that has pathologized and mutilated trans people. Look up John Money if you want to read about America's answer to Mengele.

 

As for whether Caitlyn Jenner is "good" for the trans community or "doing" trans correctly--there is no one way to be trans. There are people who transition and embrace a normative binary look that corresponds to their gender performance--that is what Caitlyn is doing. And for all the cis-people, who seem to be the people commenting on this site, there is no way to be a woman. Woman/Man is a construct. A cis-woman can wear a tuxedo, a diving suit, a dress, or a lumberjack outfit and still be accepted as "woman" by virtue of society deeming her woman because she was born with a vagina or an XX chromosome set. Trans people wear straitjackets all their life, forced to adopt the standards that were foisted on them when a doctor declared "it's a boy/girl" at the moment of their birth. In reality, the doctor was announcing the appearance of their genitalia--in reality, gender is formed in the brain. They have done studies and the brains of cis-women and trans-women are essentially the same.  She is on the cover of Vanity Fair--cis-women who appear on the cover of Vanity Fair do feminine drag, most women don't spend their days in couture with their hair blown out and their make-up done.  Yes, it seems like so much has focused on Caitlyn's appearance but so much of gender is performative and how you present. Did people want her on the cover of a magazine looking like a diesel dyke sucking a strap-on? Should she have worn jeans and a t-shirt?  As for plastic surgery--I don't think any trans people have critiqued her for using her wealth to pursue her identity. And if you are getting your tits done--why wouldn't you go for a nice pair?  I didn't see anyone criticizing Angelina Jolie for going for the same size boobs after she had hers lopped off--or is that okay because her genitalia matches her chromosomes?

 

There are trans people who have no intent to pass, their are gender terrorists, there are people who do gender-fuck (they wear a LBD and heels but have a full beard), and there are people who try to pass but becaue of the limitations of our health care system (plastic surgery needed by trans people is not covered by insurance) they do not have the access that Caitlyn Jenner or Chaz Bono have had. And to be fair, it is easier for trans-men becaus society is far more accepting of male ambiguous beauty than butch women. I knew a trans-woman in grad school and she dressed very femme but she would never be able to pass: in part because of her size and build but also because the hormones could only do so much for the timbre of her voice. However, she was the lipstick member of her relationship as she was dating a stone butch

 

Caitlyn Jenner has never said she is a spokeswoman for the trans community, she has said that she wants to work with them. She is the most high profile person to ever transition PUBLICALLY. And I think that is important for young trans people to see. Leela Alcorn asked us to fix society before she walked in front of a speeding 18-wheeler. She did that because her parents refused to see her as a girl and instead tortured her (because Christians!) and even in her death they continued to call her by a boy's name. I wish Leela were still alive to shove this magazine cover in her parent's face.

 

Also, as for the Kardashians, I understand that they are obsesed with fame, looks, and everything vapid--but I would much rather see this family supporting their trans-dad rather than the Duggars who allowed their kid to finger a toddler for Jesus.

[Kromm]

I still don't like the name Caitlyn; but I have to admit she looks way better than I ever imagined !  

 

Do we change the thread name now to "Caitlyn?"  < love that it's with a "C" too !!!

I wonder if in some ways if it might not have been better to designate a "fresh start" with an old topic (maybe locked, maybe not) for Bruce's old life and a new topic for Caitlyn's new one.  

 

I mean it's more than just a rebranding of a person, it's deeper.

[hendersonrocks]

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.   

He faced virtually none of the risks other transgender people do and will never experience any of the prejudice and rejection they do.   Most transgender people emerge from the closet greeted by loss of friends and family, loss of jobs, loss of personal and financial security, even loss of freedom to use a public bathroom suited to their new status  -- not greeted by Annie Liebowitz and Diane Sawyer.

Jenner has unleashed upon the world a wholly unrealistic view of what it means to be transgender.   He has also created a wildly false impression of the results transgender people can achieve.    The average transgender person doesn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on themselves.   They don't have a media machine at their disposal.   They don't have make-up artists, wardrobe consultants and award-winning photographers to present them to the world.    They'll never look like Jenner does in those pictures -- even Jenner doesn't look like that in real life.    It's a fucking illusion but the public is lapping it right up.    Other transgender people have to venture out into the world and find a job, looking the best they can, even if they don't pass, even if they know everyone is staring at them and laughing behind their backs.   They don't have a choice.   And a majority end up working demeaning and dangerous sex jobs because nobody else will have them.   Others just kill themselves because the world has no use for them.

Jenner's "journey" is no more real than the person in those photoshopped pictures.

 

 

I disagree with your first sentence and your last, but agree with everything in between. Jenner's "journey" may be wildly unrealistic for just about any other transperson in the world--but I still don't (and won't) believe that makes her experience invalid or easy.

[Maysie]

Look, I cannot deny that this transition had to be difficult and took courage to go through. I've long felt that it must be an awful thing to live in a body that doesn't feel like it belongs to you, to know that you were meant to be something else. So from that perspective, I'm quite supportive of Bruce's transition to Caitlyn. I don't begrudge her magazine covers or even a stupid reality show because she is famous and people are curious. And I suppose I have to give her props for at least being honest in the interview and stating she was pissed off that the Jenner kids wouldn't participate in the show; it would have been very easy to just talk about how hurt she was and leave it at that.

 

But here's the thing: though Bruce wasn't an abusive dad, he obviously was a neglectful dad. And at least right now, it appears that Caitlyn's as selfish as Bruce because she seems to think her kids should just step into line and do what needs to be done to pimp the show and accept the change; I call bullshit on that. I know Bruce struggled for 60+ years to come to terms with this; Caitlyn has to allow her kids some time to come to terms with the loss of the man they grew up knowing as their father.

 

As for the Arthur Ashe Award, how about Steve Gleason? And what about Renee Richards? She was really groundbreaking and courageous!

 

So yes, she is being brave, and she does have a host of advantages that allow her to make this transition easier and more gracefully than most have the opportunity. However I'd like to see what change she's really able to affect before laying laurels at her feet. I'm not saying she has to go out and become the transgender spokeswoman but I do think understanding and accepting that her kids are having a tough time with this (and forgiving them that, and stepping up and finally being a real parent to them) is a great place to start.

 

And I have to say this: I'm guessing it's a little easier for the Kardashian kids to accept than the Jenner kids because at the end of the day, Bruce was their stepfather not their father-father. It's not like he raised them and it doesn't seem like he was much of a father figure to anyone let alone his steps.

[jonesingjay]

There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done.    

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I see it a bit differently. Thank you for explaining your point of view and presenting a different perspective for me to consider.

[Artsda]

And I have to say this: I'm guessing it's a little easier for the Kardashian kids to accept than the Jenner kids because at the end of the day, Bruce was their stepfather not their father-father. It's not like he raised them and it doesn't seem like he was much of a father figure to anyone let alone his steps.

It's actually the reverse. The Kardashian kids did have Bruce raising them, he was the one they lived with as kids and took them to school everyday. I don't think it's easy for Khloe, Kendall or Kylie at all. Khloe you can tell is trying but it's still hard because she thinks she's losing her dad, again.

It's the older 4 Jenner kids that seem to be easier with everything because they didn't have much of a relationship with Bruce, if at all. Where they didn't see him for years at a time. It's a lot easier for them to now blame his parental choices on his inner struggles (even though he fully raised the other 6 kids) and be easier to come around to Caitlyn. They seem to think they're getting a new relationship with this new person. Where as the kids he actually raised were thinking they're losing their father.

Rob Kardashian didn't recognize Caitlyn Jenner

Kim Kardashian told Access Hollywood that her brother Rob didn’t recognize Caitlyn Jenner, formerly known as Bruce Jenner, when he first saw her image on the cover of Vanity Fair.

“(Rob asked) Kim, why are you sending me this? Who is this woman and why do I care?” Kardashian said. “ ‘Rob, that’s Bruce! That’s Caitlyn!’ He was like, ‘Oh my God, she’s beautiful!’ Then he called her and they had a love fest.”

Edited June 2, 2015 by Artsda

[DollEyes]

Re Caitlin Jenner's debut on the cover of Vanity Fair, sure she looks stunning, but that's because of the hair, the makeup, the wardrobe and the genius of Annie Leibowitz. However, I'm having a problem with the media's going overboard on this story, acting like Caitlin's the first transgender celebrity. She may be the most famous, but she's not the first, by a long shot. Renee Richards, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette, Candis Cayne and Laverne Cox all paved the way and if it wasn't for them IMO Caitlin might not be here.

 

  While I agree that there's more than one way to be transgender, I also agree that the Arthur Ashe Courage Award is premature. Had Caitlin used her newfound status to make things easier for trans people who don't have the advantages nor the attention she does, then she would deserve it. As for the kids, maybe if Caitlin cared at least as much about the first four named Jenner as the other Jenner girls or the ones named Kardashian, I might be more sympathetic.

[Kromm]

I understand where you're coming from, but I see it a bit differently. Thank you for explaining your point of view and presenting a different perspective for me to consider.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done".  But I might say "what Jenner has done is far less courageous than many other people with far less money, social acceptance and the things that come along with those (lawyers, media people on the string, the best medical care, etc.)"

 

Also, there's what I've come to think of as a truism that just because someone comes from a discriminated against community, it doesn't mean they're automatically a hero, a victim, a banner-waver, or anything else. I mean the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just sounds ridiculous until a.) Caitlin Jenner has done much more to prove herself and b.) has totally and completely worked out all of Bruce Jenner's legal issues.  Because I can joke about it being a fresh start upthread... but really.... the universe doesn't actually work that way.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Kromm

[mwell345]

 

Kim Kardashian told Access Hollywood that her brother Rob didn’t recognize Caitlyn Jenner, formerly known as Bruce Jenner, when he first saw her image on the cover of Vanity Fair.

 

“(Rob asked) Kim, why are you sending me this? Who is this woman and why do I care?” Kardashian said. “ ‘Rob, that’s Bruce! That’s Caitlyn!’ He was like, ‘Oh my God, she’s beautiful!’ Then he called her and they had a love fest.”

 

I saw that article, and while it comes straight from the mouth of Kim, I'm not buying it.   I get that he is estranged but he's not exactly living under a rock, he seems to still have a relationship with Khloe and Caitlyn.

 

This is just Kim spewing whatever she thinks she needs to spew so people will say "oh what a cute story".

[ginger90]

I saw that article, and while it comes straight from the mouth of Kim, I'm not buying it.   I get that he is estranged but he's not exactly living under a rock, he seems to still have a relationship with Khloe and Caitlyn.

 

This is just Kim spewing whatever she thinks she needs to spew so people will say "oh what a cute story".

Total bullshit. We, the general public, would know it was Bruce without a headline. Rob didn't know? Bull shit, bull shit.

[Artsda]

Brody just got his own E! show deal because of the family ties, so him refusing to appear because of the network it's on seems a bit hypocritical. Especially when he's doing interviews saying he wants Khloe to come on his show.

Older Jenner kids refuse to appear on Caitlyn’s docu-series

[jonesingjay]

I wouldn't go as far as to say "There's nothing courageous about what Jenner has done".  But I might say "what Jenner has done is far less courageous than many other people with far less money, social acceptance and the things that come along with those (lawyers, media people on the string, the best medical care, etc.)"

 

Also, there's what I've come to think of as a truism that just because someone comes from a discriminated against community, it doesn't mean they're automatically a hero, a victim, a banner-waver, or anything else. I mean the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just sounds ridiculous until a.) Caitlin Jenner has done much more to prove herself and b.) has totally and completely worked out all of Bruce Jenner's legal issues.  Because I can joke about it being a fresh start upthread... but really.... the universe doesn't actually work that way.

 

I understand the point of view. I think what she's doing, not so much for the community but for herself is a good thing. My hope is that she's finally at peace.

[nexxie]

Great shots - though I would've put the one of Caitlyn in the car on the cover, both because it's a cool shot and because Bruce liked cars so it's an interesting "transition" image.

[OakGoblinFly]

This is the feeling I'm getting too.  

 

I am bothered by the name Caitlyn.  It seems like if you were trying to distance yourself from the Kardashian girls as you say, there's probably about a bazillion cute, feminine names that don't start with the hard C/K.  

 

I don't see it as distancing yourself at all.  I see it as desperately attempting to fit in with the Kardashian girls plus Kendall and Kylie while being conscious (probably because of a PR person) of needing an "out" for those who would criticize you for it. 

 

 

The name Caitlyn means "new" or "pure" ...... so I can see why she chose it

[Artsda]

What I find weird about Caitlyn is that if Brody marries his girlfriend they'll be Caitlyn Jenner and Kaitlyn Jenner. May be considering Brody's track record Caitlyn didn't think long term with this relationship or Brody.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Artsda

[Fostersmom]

Or Bruce continues to have so little to do with Brody that he didn't even know there is a Kaitlyn. I'm hoping she picked Caitlyn before Brody's girl came along, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the other way around. 

[SoSueMe]

Mike Huckabee chimes in:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mike-huckabee-transgender-shower-girls

[dorcastrilling]

Caitlyn is a name that has been in my family for a few generations. It is not a new name; it is a more recently trendy name. I admit that along the way we have lost the original spelling. We have also had Siobhans for generations, spelling intact as it has been in every generation. That is heard a lot more now, with spellings mutated.

Point being, she may have considered her real self Caitlynn since the days of sneaking her sisters clothes. If this has been her internal self identification for years, it has been her identity since long before there was Brody's :(; maybe even before there was Brody.

Edited June 2, 2015 by dorcastrilling

[Showthyme]

Caitlin is an odd choice to name a 65 year-old but not as odd as North.

[jnymph]

Mike Huckabee chimes in:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mike-huckabee-transgender-shower-girls

What a moron.  SMH.

 

 

On another note, this thread certainly has been interesting and I have a lot of conflicted opinions.   I'm not super familiar with the trans community, (although I've had a transgender co-worker in the past that I was friendly with.)  so I feel I can't comment a lot as far as facts go.  

 

However IMO, I can't help but feel that Caitlyn is not truly transgender.   Now mind you ... I am not entirely certain what that constitutes.  But by just listening to her (and him when he was still Bruce) it sounds like an unhappy person in general, that's seeking attention by playing dress up.   I'm assuming that Caitlyn has run the gamut of transgender counseling etc, but I can't shake the feeling she's clueless on being a woman.     I dunno.   No offense meant to those truly struggling with gender issues,  I just don't believe that Caitlyn IS in fact transgender; thus I can't see how she'll find her true happiness in being a woman.   

Edited June 2, 2015 by jnymph

[GaT]

I am not looking forward to the endless paparazzi photo's of her going to Starbucks, driving around town and doing what ever else she does on a daily,boring, lonely basis, just so we can see what she is wearing and whether she does or doesn't have make-up and nails done on that day.  

I'm not looking forward to them either, but he's part of the Kardashian/Jenner family, & it's not going to be any different than it is for the rest of the females in that family. Bruce didn't get a lot of papps attention because the males in that family don't. Caitlyn is going to get plenty of attention not just because of being trans, but because she is female. The papps & tabloids are going to treat Caitlyn the same way they treat Kim or Kylie. 

I disagree with your first sentence and your last, but agree with everything in between. Jenner's "journey" may be wildly unrealistic for just about any other transperson in the world--but I still don't (and won't) believe that makes her experience invalid or easy.

It seems to me that people are holding Caitlyn's fame & money against her, & I don't understand why. Would they be happier if Bruce had given away all of his money & then transitioned? No, most trans may not be able to afford a lot of surgeries, but why is it wrong that Bruce could? Yes, he's getting a lot of attention that most trans people don't, but then most trans people are not famous Olympic gold medal winning athletes, so why would they get the same attention? Bruce wasn't like other people before he transitioned, why expect Caitlyn to be any different?

[ByTor]

  While I agree that there's more than one way to be transgender, I also agree that the Arthur Ashe Courage Award is premature. Had Caitlin used her newfound status to make things easier for trans people who don't have the advantages nor the attention she does, then she would deserve it.

This.  In my opinion, winning an award for being "courageous" implies a brave, extraordinary act toward another, not toward oneself.

[Artsda]

According to VF, Caitlyn was picked about 2 years ago and she debated on if it would be spelled with a K or not. Sounds like she wanted a "K' name, but also didn't want a K name. So it's a K sounding name spelled with a C.

 

 

Exclusive: How Caitlyn Jenner Chose Her New Name

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-new-name-how-bruce-picked-caitlyn?mbid=social_twitter

Exclusive Interviews and a Behind-the-Scenes Look at V.F.’s Cover Queen: Caitlyn Jenner’s Beauty Prep

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/style/2015/06/exclusive-interviews-and-a-behind-the-scene-look-at-v-f-s-cover-queen-caitlyn-jenner-s-beauty-prep-with-the-chosen-glam-squad-of-mark-carrasquillo-oribe-and-deborah-lippmann?mbid=social_twitter

Caitlyn Jenner Talks About Her Mother’s Reaction and Transgender Fans (NEW PHOTOS)

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-photos-interview-buzz-bissinger

 

Edited June 2, 2015 by Artsda

[Bronzedog]

Kim also said that Rob didn't recognize Caitlyn because Rob didn't know the photos were being released yesterday. So, apparently Rob lives under a rock. But, it also makes me question the report that all 10 kids will be at the Arthur Ashe ceremony. Rob seems so far removed from all of this that I can't see him showing up.

[Artsda]

Yes, I can't see all 10 being there, there's no way. Rob's going to be in such a public televised setting. It's sweet Caitlyn wants them all there, but I just can't see that happening. Also the others also have busy schedules like Kendall. Or may not be ready to be so public and televised yet also.

 

The VF writer is wrong though about all 10 kids not being in the same place for 20 years. All 10 kids were together at Kim's 2nd wedding.

[xls]

Re Caitlin Jenner's debut on the cover of Vanity Fair, sure she looks stunning, but that's because of the hair, the makeup, the wardrobe and the genius of Annie Leibowitz. However, I'm having a problem with the media's going overboard on this story, acting like Caitlin's the first transgender celebrity. She may be the most famous, but she's not the first, by a long shot. Renee Richards, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette, Candis Cayne and Laverne Cox all paved the way and if it wasn't for them IMO Caitlin might not be here.

 

  While I agree that there's more than one way to be transgender, I also agree that the Arthur Ashe Courage Award is premature. Had Caitlin used her newfound status to make things easier for trans people who don't have the advantages nor the attention she does, then she would deserve it. As for the kids, maybe if Caitlin cared at least as much about the first four named Jenner as the other Jenner girls or the ones named Kardashian, I might be more sympathetic.

They acted the same way with Chaz Bono, Entertainment Tonight really goes overboard  commenting on every hair on a celebrity's head, it gets tiring, to me. 

 

The part, I bolded is also my reason I still dislike this person.

[xls]

What a moron.  SMH.

 

 

On another note, this thread certainly has been interesting and I have a lot of conflicted opinions.   I'm not super familiar with the trans community, (although I've had a transgender co-worker in the past that I was friendly with.)  so I feel I can't comment a lot as far as facts go.  

 

However IMO, I can't help but feel that Caitlyn is not truly transgender.   Now mind you ... I am not entirely certain what that constitutes.  But by just listening to her (and him when he was still Bruce) it sounds like an unhappy person in general, that's seeking attention by playing dress up.   I'm assuming that Caitlyn has run the gamut of transgender counseling etc, but I can't shake the feeling she's clueless on being a woman.     I dunno.   No offense meant to those truly struggling with gender issues,  I just don't believe that Caitlyn IS in fact transgender; thus I can't see how she'll find her true happiness in being a woman.   

I have my doubts too, I mean is she trying to make Bruce disappear because she hates him? Because of the guilt of abandoning four children?

[truelovekiss]

Brody just got his own E! show deal because of the family ties, so him refusing to appear because of the network it's on seems a bit hypocritical. Especially when he's doing interviews saying he wants Khloe to come on his show.

Older Jenner kids refuse to appear on Caitlyn’s docu-series

What's it called? Is there a forum for it yet?