S06.E07: Wanna Love You

[vmcd88]

Did I miss something? Do Jo and Vee not plan to get married?

[SPLAIN]

I think many posters here are hitting on something about both Kail and Leah that drives me crazy: They think that mothers are inherently more important than fathers. Their men are simply interchangeable. They should be thanking their lucky stars that they have the baby daddies they do. Not all girls who get pregnant at 16 with guys they barely know are so lucky. I bet Chelsea would kill to have someone like Jo or Corey as Aubree's dad. Instead of encouraging their kids' relationships with their dads, Kail fights Jo at every turn and tries to turn Javi into Isaac's dad, and Leah moves her kids in with some random dude while she spirals out of control and poor Corey has to struggle to get half the week with his girls. It makes me sick.

Yes. The girls have been allowed to believe that they are more important. It doesn't help that the courts also give these females (rent-a-uterus) the idea that their home and their lives offer more stability. Fathers are just as capable, if not more, to offer better stability.

Edited August 25, 2015 by SPLAIN

[FozzyBear]

Yes. The girls have been allowed to believe that they are more important. It doesn't help that the courts also give these female (rent-a-uterus) the idea that their home and their lives offer more stability. Fathers are just as capable, if not more, to offer better stability.

I also think in both cases Leah and Kali saw adult women finding ways to be taken care of rather than finding ways to take care of themselves. With Leah's mom it was being dependent on having a man every second of her life from 13 on. With Kali's mom I think it was more of a sponge of rich men and then move onto richer men kind of life. Both Kali and Leah expect to be financially supported by husbands. I don't think this even has much to do with being term moms or young women either. I think if either one of them had gotten married for the first time at 30 (ha! Just go with me on this one) they would have immediately quit their jobs and expected to be supported then too. I think they were brought up to believe that was why you get married, to be taken care of.

[Freckledbruh]

 

With Kali's mom I think it was more of a sponge of rich men and then move onto richer men kind of life.

I thought they were living in one of those crack-y Motel 8 kind of places until her mom would snag some fellow barfly.  One of the reasons Kail is so shifty is because of that.  Didn't she accuse her mom of leaving her to live on her own for like a month because the mom had found a boyfriend?

[FozzyBear]

I thought they were living in one of those crack-y Motel 8 kind of places until her mom would snag some fellow barfly. One of the reasons Kail is so shifty is because of that. Didn't she accuse her mom of leaving her to live on her own for like a month because the mom had found a boyfriend?

Well not every gold-digger is good at it.

[lezlers]

I thought they were living in one of those crack-y Motel 8 kind of places until her mom would snag some fellow barfly.  One of the reasons Kail is so shifty is because of that.  Didn't she accuse her mom of leaving her to live on her own for like a month because the mom had found a boyfriend?

 

The little sympathy I have for Kail is because of her upbringing.  You can't have a childhood like hers and not be damaged from it.  She's the way she is because it's all she knows.  She grew up watching her mom live off other people so she thinks that's how people live.  She knows no other way.  She's done (and continues to do) some absolutely infuriating things, but I do have empathy for her. She needs someone in a position of authority (like a judge) however, to call her on it and let her know it's not okay.  Some mandated counseling wouldn't hurt either.

[lezlers]

Yes. The girls have been allowed to believe that they are more important. It doesn't help that the courts also give these female (rent-a-uterus) the idea that their home and their lives offer more stability. Fathers are just as capable, if not more, to offer better stability.

 

That's a great point.  In a lot of areas the standard custody schedule is every other weekend and Wednesdays for dads.  That's not a whole lot of time.  And it's always the dads who get the kids 20% vs the moms' 80%.  As a society, we're conditioned to believe that children belong with the mother.  Just look at all the drama with Kelly Rutherford and her custody.  She got her ex's visa revoked to prevent him from coming into the country and then when the courts ordered the children to be with him in Monaco, they come to visit her and she refuses to return them.  What would be considered kidnapping if it had happened at the hands of the father is written about in the press as a desperate mother's attempts to defend the rights of her children and everyone sympathizes with her! They assume, just because she's the mother, that the children should be with her in America knowing their father would never be able to see them again due to the actions of their mother.  It's appalling.  And this is coming from the mother of two children.

Edited August 25, 2015 by lezlers

[SPLAIN]

 

She needs someone in a position of authority (like a judge) however, to call her on it and let her know it's not okay.

Kail did not follow the order of the court either. When she was told she had to hold off on buying a house in Delaware until the judge would give his/her order on the motion, Kail said it loud and clear on camera that she didn't care what a judge says. She went and bought the house anyways.

 

I am beyond the "my childhood was crappy" excuse. At some point, people need to get over their past, move forward, stop blaming and shaming those who did them wrong, and get with the program that they signed up for - adulthood. I hear these kind of people at my work (therapy facility) who cry foul time and time again when life isn't fair to them, they blame their behavior and other problems on everybody around them. They don't blame the right body, themselves.

 

I feel sorry for anyone's crappy childhood, however, when that person is as foul as Kail, who feels entitled to steal people's money or their personal belongings, that is her own personal choice, not her childhood.  People with crappy childhoods, who go and commit crimes due to drug addiction or alcohol addiction such as DUIs, and involve innocent people in their behavior, such as children, my sympathy goes out the window. I sure as heck wouldn't want to hear someone tell me, "I had a bad childhood" as their excuse when they try to walk out with my flat screen television from my home.

 

When Nathan told Jenelle she hit the lottery, I somewhat thought he meant she hit the lottery when she landed him as a boyfriend. Surely he meant the MTV money, right? 

Edited August 25, 2015 by SPLAIN

[Freckledbruh]

 

When Nathan told Jenelle she hit the lottery, I somewhat thought he meant she hit the lottery when she landed him as a boyfriend. Surely he meant the MTV money, right?

I think that Kail completely changed how she came across the minute she realized that she was about to get a big check from Mtv.  She started acting like her mother.  Once she lied to the nonprofit and said she was abused to get subsidized housing, I was so done with sympathizing with her.

[SPLAIN]

I think that Kail completely changed how she came across the minute she realized that she was about to get a big check from Mtv.  She started acting like her mother.  Once she lied to the nonprofit and said she was abused to get subsidized housing, I was so done with sympathizing with her.

I so agree with you. She lied about being abused to obtain much-needed housing that could have gone to a real victim.

 

Kail's claims of victim hood are right up there with Leah and Jenelle. They are the victims! She accused Jo of abusing her when in fact, it was her who assaulted him. She wrote a book and claims she was raped. A claim I do not believe at all. She claims she had an abortion because she became pregnant from that rape. No. Just no. I feel she found herself pregnant by a mutual loser and decided to abort.

[ChocolateAddict]

That's a great point.  In a lot of areas the standard custody schedule is every other weekend and Wednesdays for dads.  That's not a whole lot of time.  And it's always the dads who get the kids 20% vs the moms' 80%.  As a society, we're conditioned to believe that children belong with the mother.  Just look at all the drama with Kelly Rutherford and her custody.  She got her ex's visa revoked to prevent him from coming into the country and then when the courts ordered the children to be with him in Monaco, they come to visit her and she refuses to return them.  What would be considered kidnapping if it had happened at the hands of the father is written about in the press as a desperate mother's attempts to defend the rights of her children and everyone sympathizes with her! They assume, just because she's the mother, that the children should be with her in America knowing their father would never be able to see them again due to the actions of their mother.  It's appalling.  And this is coming from the mother of two children.

We had a similar situation here a few years back.  In Italy, the parents were granted joint custody but the mother, in complete violation of the court orders, bought them to Australia. You would have thought that the father was Voldemort from the way that the media talked about it.  She brainwashed her kids to the point where they had to be, literally, dragged onto the plane kicking and screaming (she lied and said that her husband was abusive when he wasn't).  If it had been the other way around, there would have been a virtual manhunt and he would have been a criminal.  As it was, she was just a poor mother trying to keep hold of her children and raised $10,000 to fight the court orders.    

Kail and Leah do the same thing on a much smaller, legal scale.  They see themselves as the best parents for their children just because they were the ones that gave birth to them.  Corey and Jo should have just as many rights as their exes when it comes to the children that they share.  Yes Kail and Leah, you share those kids with their fathers.  

[WhosThatGirl]

I am beyond the "my childhood was crappy" excuse. At some point, people need to get over their past, move forward, stop blaming and shaming those who did them wrong, and get with the program that they signed up for - adulthood.

 

 

This. It's one of my main problems with Kail. Yes, her mom was terribly flakey. The narrative in her original episode solidified that (her Mom blew her off when Kail asked if she would come and see the baby after the baby was born and I believe her Mom was like well my boyfriend and I aren't here often, we will see). The problem I have is that now Kail is doing awful things and has an awful attitude and seems very much aware of how bad her attitude is and her behavior but she just decides well others will have to change their behavior. That's not what being an adult is. You can't change what happened to you but you can change how you are acting and this is why the fact that she and Javi go to therapy won't do any good, Kail is already aware of her behavior, she just won't ever change it. So it's a waste of part of her MTV paycheck she's dropping to go there. 

 

I agree with others who have said Leah wants a man to take care of her and only her. Here's the problem: If Leah wants to not work and be a stay at home mom that's totally fine! More power to you if you are able to do that. But the man then has to work and Leah doesn't understand that. She wants the man to always be around her. I also think if you plan on being a stay at home non working parent, you should do the work for the house- and I don't mean this in a 1950s way so please don't take it as such- I mean any parent, male or female, if you plan on staying home with the kids, at least clean the house once in a while. I mean, Leah and Jeremy's house looks awful. All the time. I don't know. I think Leah doesn't want to work but doesn't quite get that someone has to.

[Elizabeth9]

Catelynn and Tyler have their own issues, but look at their parents- they're reasonably stable and they aren't people with a "victim" mentality. Butch and April were pretty terrible parents too...

No sympathy for Kail here

Edited August 26, 2015 by Elizabeth9

[GreatKazu]

The little sympathy I have for Kail is because of her upbringing.  You can't have a childhood like hers and not be damaged from it.  She's the way she is because it's all she knows.  She grew up watching her mom live off other people so she thinks that's how people live.  She knows no other way.  She's done (and continues to do) some absolutely infuriating things, but I do have empathy for her. She needs someone in a position of authority (like a judge) however, to call her on it and let her know it's not okay.  Some mandated counseling wouldn't hurt either.

Mandated counseling from whom? That would mean Kail would have to be forced into doing something she wouldn't normally do on her own. That goes against her philosophy in life which means everyone else has to adhere to her rules. She and Javi attended counseling together and she still couldn't do the work. Why would she do the work if forced to do so? Apparently, they are not in counseling anymore because Javi is now following the plan which is, let Kail rule the roost and just do as she wants.

 

As for her upbringing, I can sympathize with children who are not old enough to make better choices for themselves. I sympathize with young adolescents who are still mandated to live with their parents, as fucked as those parents may be. When that child grows up to be an adult, and that adult makes bad choices, and tries to screw their child's relationship with their father, I have no fucks to give. Sympathy for Kail? I'd give sympathy to people who really deserve it. There are plenty of people who don't go around with the attitude that Kail does. Elizabeth9 above makes a great point about Cate and Tyler.

Edited August 26, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Freckledbruh]

 

Mandated counseling from whom? That would mean Kail would have to be forced into doing something she wouldn't normally do on her own. That goes against her philosophy in life which means everyone else has to adhere to her rules.

I thought she had to take those anger management classes after she assaulted Jo (which didn't work obviously).

[GreatKazu]

I thought she had to take those anger management classes after she assaulted Jo (which didn't work obviously).

She was ordered to, but obviously it didn't work  because Kail felt she wasn't the one with the problem. The judge had the problem.

Edited August 26, 2015 by GreatKazu

[truelovekiss]

I also think in both cases Leah and Kali saw adult women finding ways to be taken care of rather than finding ways to take care of themselves. With Leah's mom it was being dependent on having a man every second of her life from 13 on. With Kali's mom I think it was more of a sponge of rich men and then move onto richer men kind of life. Both Kali and Leah expect to be financially supported by husbands. I don't think this even has much to do with being term moms or young women either. I think if either one of them had gotten married for the first time at 30 (ha! Just go with me on this one) they would have immediately quit their jobs and expected to be supported then too. I think they were brought up to believe that was why you get married, to be taken care of.

I think this is an interesting point. Say what you will about Jenelle (and oh, I will say a lot!) But she never looks to a man for money. She has her money from the show, and she spends it foolishly on herself and the dick if the day, but she doesn't seem to expect much support back. I'm not going to say she's a good worker like Barb, but at least she's not a sponge.

[FozzyBear]

I think this is an interesting point. Say what you will about Jenelle (and oh, I will say a lot!) But she never looks to a man for money. She has her money from the show, and she spends it foolishly on herself and the dick if the day, but she doesn't seem to expect much support back. I'm not going to say she's a good worker like Barb, but at least she's not a sponge.

Same with Chelsea. Of all of her issues with Adam, money gets brought up very little. I'm sure she has a child support order out against him, but it doesn't seem to be her primary concern. She can and does support Aubree and acts much more concerned about Adam's general fitness as a parent than any money she might get. And with this new guy it looks like she has been purposefully trying not to put in the new daddy/husband/provider place and just get to know him. Leah or Kali would have been knocked up, engaged, and shopping for a new house after the 2nd date with that guy.

[Darknight]

She was ordered to, but obviously it didn't work because Kail felt she wasn't the one with the problem. The judge had the problem.

She's sounds narcissistic. Everyone else is the problem. Kali doesn't see she's the problem because then it means she's wrong and she has issues. Even therapy won't wrong because the therapist and others are the problem. Kali lives in Kali world.

[Mkay]

 

I am beyond the "my childhood was crappy" excuse. At some point, people need to get over their past, move forward, stop blaming and shaming those who did them wrong, and get with the program that they signed up for - adulthood. I hear these kind of people at my work (therapy facility) who cry foul time and time again when life isn't fair to them, they blame their behavior and other problems on everybody around them. They don't blame the right body, themselves.

 

 

I had a crappy childhood. Comparable and guaranteed worse times than Kail. I have no sympathy for people who blame their childhood UNLESS they are being locked in a basement, extremes like that.  But things I saw and went through as a kid, I should be messed up. I am not.  I knew none of it was normal and knew I never, ever wanted  to be that way or raise my child that way. Ever.  

[this-one-is-mine]

Just out of curiosity, why does Leah battle Addy on things as silly as taking off her shoes? My son was born a month after Addy and he loves to kick his shoes off in the car/grocery cart/etc. I don't scream and shriek at him because who cares? They're easy to put back on and it's not a big deal. Seems weird.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I keep telling myself that what we're not hearing/being told about the issue of Adam being with Aubree without his parents around supervising is that Chelsea and the Linds actually came to the agreement that he either had to be supervised by his parents or the MTV camera crew...so when we see Adam with Aubree (and no parents in sight), it's because he has the MTV crew there supervising him. (Again, this is just what I'm telling myself so it makes some kind of sense to me.)

I felt badly for Addie this episode. At least the twins get a break from the Leah crazy train a few days per week. Addie is around that mess all of the time (except when she's been carted off to stay with other Messer relatives). She doesn't have a Miranda in her life and her dad can't be around like Corey due to work. I'd be screaming all of the time too.

When Jenelle's friend asked what she was going to do with Kaiser, I took it to mean that Nathan's mom and Nathan have been providing most of Kaiser's day to day care (well, Nathan more so than Jenelle but definitely his mom). I thought the friend was asking what she'd do now that she was broken up with or in a fight with the son of the woman who was really caring for Kaiser day to day (Nathan's mom). I was thinking "as if that would stop her from dumping the roll off on his mom." But yeah, since this chick is Jenelle's friend, she probably figured that Jenelle would no longer want to "keep" Kaiser since she had broken up with his dad and was plotting how to get Barb or someone to take over his care.

I just can't with Kail. I can practically hear Javi's sister Lidia reminding herself not to beat Kail's ass or fight with her because then Kail would try to prevent the family from seeing Lincoln and would make Javi choose between the family and Kail (and since Kail shakes heads and all, he'd probably choose her).

Sometimes I forget what a grifter who is only concerned with what she can get for herself Kail is. I watched her "16 & Pregnant" episode the other day and I had forgotten how AMAZING Janet was to her when she lived there (before she broke their rules). Not only were they housing Kail when her own mom wasn't, Janet was a huge emotional support for Kail and took her side over Jo's several times. She basically told Kail she loved her like a daughter and I believe she did. Kail called Suzi in tears when her visit with her dad didn't go well. Unless Suzi is a hell of an actress, she seemed to really feel for, love, and want to nurture Kail. And of course Kail shit all over that when she wanted to date Jordan and was appalled the family that was housing her would have rules about her dating someone other than their son, not to mention the shady way Kail went about doing it. When Kail realized the jig was up and she couldn't get everything she wanted and still live rent free in the Riviera's nice house, she totally changed how she treated Suzi. At the reunion for TM2's first season, Dr. Drew had to basically beg her to thank Suzi for what they did for her and Isaac and Kail acted like they hadn't done shit and he was being ridiculous. And Suzi looked legitimately hurt. I hope Javi's relatives aren't getting to far sucked in.

Edited August 26, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Just out of curiosity, why does Leah battle Addy on things as silly as taking off her shoes? My son was born a month after Addy and he loves to kick his shoes off in the car/grocery cart/etc. I don't scream and shriek at him because who cares? They're easy to put back on and it's not a big deal. Seems weird.

Just a thought....

My dad was raised in poverty in the 1940s/50s. The family was so poor that they didn't get the kids shoes until they were school-aged and basically had to break down and buy them because they were required for school. He spent most of his childhood prior to 1st grade shoeless. When I was a kid, he would freak out if I stepped outside without shoes on (even in our backyard). He would make comments about how trashy it was when he'd see kids in the neighborhood out playing in their yards without shoes on. It took years before I understood (mostly from stories for his older siblings), that to my dad, shoeless kids = extreme poverty. He didn't want anyone to see his kid without shoes nor did he want to even see me outside barefoot because he associated it with parents who couldn't or wouldn't buy shoes for their kids (his parents were also alcoholics, who did find money for alcohol while not buying shoes for their 4 year old even during the winter). To my dad, part of being a "good" parent was making sure your kids had shoes and that they'd never be seen outside barefoot.

Maybe Leah has been exposed to people who didn't have money to buy their kids shoes until they were school aged (or spent money that could have bought shoes on pillses or something). Perhaps to Leah, kids in public without shoes would telegraph that she's an incompetent mother (like someone with an addiction problem), poor, or trashy, etc.

Or she could just get some sort of shoe obsession when high. Who knows.

Edited August 26, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[ChocolateAddict]

What I don't understand is why she got annoyed about it in the car.  Maybe she doesn't want a toddler walking around with no shoes on in public but why care in the car?  It just seems petty for Leah to fight Addie about having shoes when she is sitting in a car seat and IMO is an example of her trying to parent her kids for the camera.  Same as we have seen her use the "naughty chair" a few times this season but never on a consistent basis.  In fact the last time I remember her doing it was with Addie and the shoes! 

It also annoyed me when she asked Gracie "What does she want?".  Addie was just screaming and Gracie is five, what makes you think that she knows? Maybe if Leah hadn't picked the fight over shoes (in the car), Addie wouldn't be so upset.  

[lovesnark]

My theory on shoeless Adderall is that Leah is too out of it most of the time or too busy talking on the phone to remember where the poor kid's shoes are. The baby has probably taken off her shoes at random places and Leah is too stoned or busy whining to someone on the phone to notice. Then, when it's time to go somewhere, she can't find the shoes and blames the kid. Plus, can you imagine trying to find a matching pair of shoes in the chaos Leah calls housekeeping? Kids like to be barefoot, you just learn to deal with it. When my daughter started kindergarten, I got calls and notes from her teacher for the first couple months of school because she wouldn't keep her shoes on.

[Adiba]

What I don't understand is why she got annoyed about it in the car.  Maybe she doesn't want a toddler walking around with no shoes on in public but why care in the car?  It just seems petty for Leah to fight Addie about having shoes when she is sitting in a car seat and IMO is an example of her trying to parent her kids for the camera.  Same as we have seen her use the "naughty chair" a few times this season but never on a consistent basis.  In fact the last time I remember her doing it was with Addie and the shoes! 

It also annoyed me when she asked Gracie "What does she want?".  Addie was just screaming and Gracie is five, what makes you think that she knows? Maybe if Leah hadn't picked the fight over shoes (in the car), Addie wouldn't be so upset.

Leah does seem to have a thing about shoes. My mom did also, but she was raised during the depression era and shoes didn't always get bought ( also, she was a clean freak when we were growing up, and dirty feet made her nuts-- you could take dirty shoes off at the door, but not your feet, lol).

When my son was a baby, I sometimes babysat for a woman with a son the same age. They were just starting to walk, and she insisted that I keep her son's shoes on while he was being cared for in my home because they were " too hard to get on and off." They were the old fashioned white leather baby shoes. Um, no-- I'm taking your kid's shoes off so he doesn't kick my kid with them. She was just too lazy to deal with the shoes-- maybe that's Leah's problem?

[fliptopbox]

She's sounds narcissistic. Everyone else is the problem. Kali doesn't see she's the problem because then it means she's wrong and she has issues. Even therapy won't wrong because the therapist and others are the problem. Kail lives in Kail world.

I agree with this. She is pretty much textbook definition of a narcissist, along with being bipolar. Mood swings on a dime, always has to be right, always plays the victim.. Yup. All the counseling in the world won't change a personality disorder since 99.9999% of the time the person doesn't believe that they are the problem. It's always everyone else.

[lezlers]

Kail did not follow the order of the court either. When she was told she had to hold off on buying a house in Delaware until the judge would give his/her order on the motion, Kail said it loud and clear on camera that she didn't care what a judge says. She went and bought the house anyways.

 

I am beyond the "my childhood was crappy" excuse. At some point, people need to get over their past, move forward, stop blaming and shaming those who did them wrong, and get with the program that they signed up for - adulthood. I hear these kind of people at my work (therapy facility) who cry foul time and time again when life isn't fair to them, they blame their behavior and other problems on everybody around them. They don't blame the right body, themselves.

 

I feel sorry for anyone's crappy childhood, however, when that person is as foul as Kail, who feels entitled to steal people's money or their personal belongings, that is her own personal choice, not her childhood.  People with crappy childhoods, who go and commit crimes due to drug addiction or alcohol addiction such as DUIs, and involve innocent people in their behavior, such as children, my sympathy goes out the window. I sure as heck wouldn't want to hear someone tell me, "I had a bad childhood" as their excuse when they try to walk out with my flat screen television from my home.

 

When Nathan told Jenelle she hit the lottery, I somewhat thought he meant she hit the lottery when she landed him as a boyfriend. Surely he meant the MTV money, right? 

 

It's an explanation, not an excuse.  Having empathy for someone doesn't mean you excuse their bad behavior.  I would hope that you, working in a therapy center, have more empathy towards your patients than reality stars. I'm a public defender and though my clients drive me insane more often than not, being able to empathize with them and see how their upbringing lead them to their current behavior is imperative to understanding them and ultimately helping them.  Some people are beyond help, others aren't.   It takes more than a stern "get over yourself, childhood is over!" to move past the only learned behaviors they know.

[lezlers]

Mandated counseling from whom? That would mean Kail would have to be forced into doing something she wouldn't normally do on her own. That goes against her philosophy in life which means everyone else has to adhere to her rules. She and Javi attended counseling together and she still couldn't do the work. Why would she do the work if forced to do so? Apparently, they are not in counseling anymore because Javi is now following the plan which is, let Kail rule the roost and just do as she wants.

 

As for her upbringing, I can sympathize with children who are not old enough to make better choices for themselves. I sympathize with young adolescents who are still mandated to live with their parents, as fucked as those parents may be. When that child grows up to be an adult, and that adult makes bad choices, and tries to screw their child's relationship with their father, I have no fucks to give. Sympathy for Kail? I'd give sympathy to people who really deserve it. There are plenty of people who don't go around with the attitude that Kail does. Elizabeth9 above makes a great point about Cate and Tyler.

A lot of people are forced into counseling and are the better for it.  Like the majority of my clients.  Again, everyone seems to think I'm excusing Kail's behavior.  I'm not.  I'm simply saying I empathize with her and can understand how her upbringing led to it.  It's still bad behavior and it still needs to be changed.  Life is not as simplistic as many  seem to think it is. 

[SPLAIN]

WHO is going to force Kail into counseling? That was the question asked that you are not answering.

No one ever posted life is easy. I posted a small example of what has been told to patients in therapy. Therapy is more than just words, it is action on the part of the patient. Kail is not receptive to doing that from what has been shown of her in counseling. She has already discontinued her counseling, from what she mentioned in a video.

Edited August 26, 2015 by SPLAIN

[langway]

Leah only wants the men around her 24/7 because she doesn't trust them. Common issues with cheaters is they're generally overbearing and paranoid because the cheater knows what THEY'RE doing, obviously, but not what the spouse is doing.

That and she wants someone else to deal with the kids so she doesn't have to.

[TM2]

A lot of people are forced into counseling and are the better for it.  Like the majority of my clients.  Again, everyone seems to think I'm excusing Kail's behavior.  I'm not.  I'm simply saying I empathize with her and can understand how her upbringing led to it.  It's still bad behavior and it still needs to be changed.  Life is not as simplistic as many  seem to think it is. 

Not everyone. I absolutely agree with you. People who quit smoking are mostly the worst anti smoking activists. The same with people who have had crappy childhoods as well and have changed their lives around. They went through it and if they turned out ok so should anyone else. As if everyone has the same nature and nurture and even if they did, not everyone will cope with it the same. So many things come to play when it comes to this that it boggles the mind to go about it so simplisticly. There is a reason most people who have a unstable life with problems (drugs, jail, psychiatric or otherwise) are mostly the ones with some dysfunction going on early in life and then you have genetics which will give you a problem even if you were blessed with a good childhood. That is just science talking. Then there is the biology aspect that will even pass through some things to your kids which will make them prone to some things (addiction, suicide, stress etc.) Which will make it kind of a vicious cycle.  Lets not throw those people away because of a 'cause I made it so should everyone else' mentality. I wish it was the case. That would make all criminals in the brazilian slums just REALLY bad people. And everyone living safe in their gated community just really nice and lovely ones.

 

Kail should do more since she has had more opportunity to fix things and make things different but she is only 23 and a few years from now can be a better person if she goes to therapy and learns to let her guard down. She should not be shunned for she has probably never felt safe in her upbringing. You can grow up in a war zone and have a loving mother and feel safer for it when you are a adult and grow up safe without no one to nurture you and take care of you and carry those implacations with you for your whole life. Safety is a key word here. Kail needs to understand she is safe and does not need to fight everything.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TM2

[lezlers]

WHO is going to force Kail into counseling? That was the question asked that you are not answering.

No one ever posted life is easy. I posted a small example of what has been told to patients in therapy. Therapy is more than just words, it is action on the part of the patient. Kail is not receptive to doing that from what has been shown of her in counseling. She has already discontinued her counseling, from what she mentioned in a video.

 

Who?  A judge is the only person who can, legally.  Didn't think that actually needed an answer.  She's got standing family law orders.  Mandated counseling can become one of them.  Not anger management, not couples counseling, but one on one counseling with a therapist to work through lingering issues from her childhood if that's the root of her problems. Not saying it's a guaranteed "cure", Kail might just be a lost cause.  However, still being young and coming from what she did, I'm not quite ready to write her off as a horrible person incapable of redemption.  If that puts me in the minority camp on this issue, it's a place I'm quite satisfied to be in. 

[DangerousMinds]

Yes. The girls have been allowed to believe that they are more important. It doesn't help that the courts also give these females (rent-a-uterus) the idea that their home and their lives offer more stability. Fathers are just as capable, if not more, to offer better stability.

Society in general still supports these ideas, too. I would love to one day see just as many stay-at-home dads as we do stay-at-home moms. Our government doesn't support maternity leave, much less paternity leave, as they do in some other countries.

[DangerousMinds]

Catelynn and Tyler have their own issues, but look at their parents- they're reasonably stable and they aren't people with a "victim" mentality. Butch and April were pretty terrible parents too...

No sympathy for Kail here

I agree that Kail should work harder to move beyond her upbringing, but unlike Catelynn and Tyler, she doesn't have any siblings or another parent to offset the damage her mother did. There was literally no one there for her during her childhood, and it's looking like she just can't break out of that mindset, unfortunately.

[GreatKazu]

 

Who?  A judge is the only person who can, legally.  Didn't think that actually needed an answer.  She's got standing family law orders.  Mandated counseling can become one of them.

Kail is a big time hosebeast, but there doesn't seem to be anything that she is doing that would warrant a judge to intervene. Jo would have his motion thrown out. Kail is not even on the level that Leah is and look at her still enjoying custody of her kids.

 

I have witnessed much worse cases in the courtroom where children were in problem homes and one of the parents could definitely use therapy, but that was not enough for a judge to order someone into therapy. It takes certain criteria for a judge to order someone into counseling, and the first step would be Jo filing a motion stating he feels Kail has problems and he has concerns for the welfare of his children. He would need proof and there is no proof that he can give the court other than his claims that she won't allow him to have more time with his son. He can claim she moved again to keep him away from Isaac, but her excuse (lie) would be that it was a safety issue due to harassment from her minions. Jo can list all the reasons that have been listed on this message board as to what makes Kail a vile bitch, it is still not enough reason for a judge to order her into therapy.  We already know MTV doesn't allow their footage to be used because the participant's contracts don't allow them to be used in court. Cory tried this and the judge denied his request.

Edited August 26, 2015 by GreatKazu

[poopchute]

Just out of curiosity, why does Leah battle Addy on things as silly as taking off her shoes? My son was born a month after Addy and he loves to kick his shoes off in the car/grocery cart/etc. I don't scream and shriek at him because who cares? They're easy to put back on and it's not a big deal. Seems weird.

 

Because she's a terrible mother and a moron so she thinks that parenting is putting your kid in time out every time they do anything.

[ghoulina]

Because she's a terrible mother and a moron so she thinks that parenting is putting your kid in time out every time they do anything.

 

Amen! I don't think it's because Addie loses them a lot or she can't afford shoes or anything like that. I simply see every correction Leah makes as her attempt to appear a firm and involved parent on camera. 

[SPLAIN]

Who?  A judge is the only person who can, legally.  Didn't think that actually needed an answer.  She's got standing family law orders.  Mandated counseling can become one of them.  Not anger management, not couples counseling, but one on one counseling with a therapist to work through lingering issues from her childhood if that's the root of her problems. Not saying it's a guaranteed "cure", Kail might just be a lost cause.  However, still being young and coming from what she did, I'm not quite ready to write her off as a horrible person incapable of redemption.  If that puts me in the minority camp on this issue, it's a place I'm quite satisfied to be in. 

I felt it should be clarified so as to decipher whether you knew the answer and to read your explanation. Your comment came off as if it was so simple for a judge to just force Kailyn into therapy, which I know is not how it works. Our facility deals with people who are court-ordered for anger management, addiction, therapy, and other types of mental health services. It is not as easy as Jo taking Kail to court, ask for her to enter therapy and the judge signs the order. What has Kail done that is so egregious and harmful that it affects Isaac's well-being that any court would even consider hearing such a matter? The girl is certainly repugnant and contemptible in so many ways, however, the law would never view it as a reason for this girl to be dragged to court.

 

This is pointless since it is not even a topic or a subject that has been broached by Jo or anyone else on the program.

 

 

Because she's a terrible mother and a moron so she thinks that parenting is putting your kid in time out every time they do anything.

Clearly Leah has watched too many Super Nanny episodes.

 

I would hope that you, working in a therapy center, have more empathy towards your patients than reality stars.

Oh please, do not assume. I have empathy for people who truly want help but, can't pay for it, which is part of what I do at my work. They are not my patients because I am not a therapist.

Edited August 26, 2015 by SPLAIN

[leighroda]

Ugh! Thanks a lot everyone... I took a test today and it said "blood pressure increased dramatically" (I'm in nursing school) and I read it as "dramastically" thank god I wasn't reading out loud... Lol.

[lezlers]

Kail is a big time hosebeast, but there doesn't seem to be anything that she is doing that would warrant a judge to intervene. Jo would have his motion thrown out. Kail is not even on the level that Leah is and look at her still enjoying custody of her kids.

 

I have witnessed much worse cases in the courtroom where children were in problem homes and one of the parents could definitely use therapy, but that was not enough for a judge to order someone into therapy. It takes certain criteria for a judge to order someone into counseling, and the first step would be Jo filing a motion stating he feels Kail has problems and he has concerns for the welfare of his children. He would need proof and there is no proof that he can give the court other than his claims that she won't allow him to have more time with his son. He can claim she moved again to keep him away from Isaac, but her excuse (lie) would be that it was a safety issue due to harassment from her minions. Jo can list all the reasons that have been listed on this message board as to what makes Kail a vile bitch, it is still not enough reason for a judge to order her into therapy.  We already know MTV doesn't allow their footage to be used because the participant's contracts don't allow them to be used in court. Cory tried this and the judge denied his request.

Yes, I'm aware of the requirements.  As previously stated, I'm a lawyer.  It was more wishful thinking than an actual plan of action for Kail.  

[this-one-is-mine]

I know there are some repulsive people between the two teen mom shows (Janelle, Adam, Farrah, the list goes on and on...) but I have to say that of all of them the one who I want to punch in the fucking face the most every time she comes on screen is Kailyn. I have no idea how this girl has any friends, or has gotten any man to even speak to her more than once let alone actually have (unprotected!) sex with her. She is the most perpetually negative self-obsessed hypocritical martyr I can conceive of. Not to mention her face is hideous and I hate looking at it.

Mad props to Vee for not tweeting during the episode "Hey hideous-tattoo covered land whale, why do you think Jo and I would want you anywhere near or child, let alone babysitting her?" Kail got so worked up about that, she actually thought they would ask that of her?! And let's say that in some alternate universe they did. Why does she have to be such a bitch about it? I've seen Jo on camera interacting with Lincoln and he was incredibly kind to him. She's even a miserably evil wench when talking about a baby. Ugh she is so terrible.

[zenme]

I believe Kailyn is, and had been, in therapy for a few seasons--various types of therapy, from what I can recall.  She'd been in therapy for herself, therapy with Javi, and of course, therapy with Jo.  I believe she's identified and made connections to why she chooses to behave in certain ways.  She's very aware of her issues and triggers.  The problem is that Kailyn does use those as excuses for her blowups, and she expects everyone who knows her to accept that this is just who she is. 

[configdotsys]

And there are people like Kail who don't even marry for love or what they may feel could be a potential partner long term, but merely for benefits.

 

Kail is advertising, plain and simple. It is a cheesy clothing line where one buys a t-shirt with an option of varying "Lowry" sayings. I didn't bother to look at her entire clothing line, but if there isn't already, she should have t-shirts that read "BENEFITS"  inside a big heart.

 

Here you go! I LOVE this!

[configdotsys]

I don't understand Jo. On the one hand, he's just so distraught and unable to be away from his son that he moves to Delaware. This is presumably because the thought of being a part time dad and missing out on his kid's events is not something he wants at all. Compare that to how he treats Vee. He doesn't seem nearly as into this baby or he would be telling her that he wants her to move with him so they can be a family and live near Isaac. I don't get that vibe from him at all. 

[Chicken Wing]

She's very aware of her issues and triggers.  The problem is that Kailyn does use those as excuses for her blowups, and she expects everyone who knows her to accept that this is just who she is.

 

That's what fries my nads about her. Hooray, she knows why she does this or that or acts a certain way - she has identified the root cause of the problem. Great. Now, instead of working toward solutions on how to move past those issues and triggers so she can function better in life and in her relationships in spite of those roots, she uses those roots as excuses. That is not forward progress. Identifying the problem doesn't matter a whole lot if you don't actually try to fix it, and Kailyn doesn't seem very interested in solutions. We see it in her marriage counseling sessions with Javi. She knows they have issues, because she does this and he does that, and where he makes attempts to use the exercises the therapist gave them (because is that not what they're paying for?) she just dismisses them as useless without even pretending to try, throws up her hands all, "Why bother? All we do is fight." Never mind that the whole point of the exercise is to learn how to find ways to communicate without fighting. Nope. It is what it is and they are who they are, and the next time they have an actual fight she'll use that as an excuse for whatever she says or does - even though she had a chance to work around that. She'll never change unless she actually tries to course-correct. Learning what's wrong with her isn't good enough.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[fliptopbox]

That's what fries my nads about her. Hooray, she knows why she does this or that or acts a certain way - she has identified the root cause of the problem. Great. Now, instead of working toward solutions on how to move past those issues and triggers so she can function better in life and in her relationships in spite of those roots, she uses those roots as excuses. That is not forward progress. Identifying the problem doesn't matter a whole lot if you don't actually try to fix it, and Kailyn doesn't seem very interested in solutions. We see it in her marriage counseling sessions with Javi. She knows they have issues, because she does this and he does that, and where he makes attempts to use the exercises the therapist gave them (because is that not what they're paying for?) she just dismisses them as useless without even pretending to try, throws up her hands all, "Why bother? All we do is fight." Never mind that the whole point of the exercise is to learn how to find ways to communicate without fighting. Nope. It is what it is and they are who they are, and the next time they have an actual fight she'll use that as an excuse for whatever she says or does - even though she had a chance to work around that. She'll never change unless she actually tries to course-correct. Learning what's wrong with her isn't good enough.

Exactly. Just because you know what sets you off doesn't make you a better person, trying to work through your issues and be a better person/spouse is the whole point of therapy. Why even bother if you're going to ignore everything the therapist tells you to try because "that's just how it is". What a bleak view on life. Annnnd, what makes her so damn special that everything in her life needs to be tailored around her? Talk about someone who is full of herself. Javi and Jo's feelings both matter...she's just a narcissistic bitch.

Edited August 27, 2015 by fliptopbox

[Mkay]

 Dramastically Bad Days  http://theashleysrealityroundup.com/2015/08/27/teen-mom-2-season-6-episode-7-toliet-wrestlin-dramastically-bad-days/

[GreatKazu]

Here you go! I LOVE this!

You are all kinds of awesome! *thumbs up* Love the avatar!

 

 

Dramastically Bad Days  http://theashleysrea...cally-bad-days/

Oh, that is Leah's friend? The gray-haired girl? Isn't that the one who moved to Vegas a few seasons back? I didn't realize it was her.

Edited August 27, 2015 by GreatKazu

[toodywoody]

Who was watching the Roll while those two fuck twits were outside with their domestic dispute? I show more emotion when I stub my toe than Jenelle and her dead eyes no emotion meth self