S11.E07: Week 6

[Andromeda]

I've given some thought to the "slut-shaming," thing, too, and I think I agree with Padma and Sinamaia. I have to ask myself if I would think it was tacky if one of The Bachelors did it and in this case, I would. Catherine and Emily both said that Sean and Brad respectively gave them a secret hint in the beginning that they were "the one." It might have been something as simple as "You don't have to worry about anything I do on the dates." Once that impression is given then it's pretty skanky to go have sex with someone else. I would have been disgusted with Sean if he had made subtle promises to Catherine and then slept with one of the other girls.

This isn't just getting heated up on a date and taking it to the next level, back at someone's apartment. It's a very special, televised situation. The men are encouraged to "open up," and allow themselves to fall in love. I think it's then just not fair to go past a certain point for the duration of the show, at least until Fantasy Suite time when it's almost over. In real life they wouldn't have to sit next to the guy who slept with their girlfriend at breakfast.

I agree. Because of the constraints of the show, because of its premise, the lead is forbidden to truly be honest with the contestants. So there can't be any discussion of what the sex really means, and it isn't unusual for one of the parties involved to read more into it than is intended. In this case, a guy who thinks she's looking to fall in love.

 

If Kaitlyn can't be honest about what it means or doesn't mean for her, it's not fair to the guy she sleeps with or the other contestants -- especially when they're all assuming (or giving lip service to) the idea that she's there for a permanent relationship, up to and including marriage. And not just there to party on a whim.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Andromeda

[CaughtOnTape]

As for "slut shaming" if its wrong to make Kaitlyn feel bad over casual sex, then Juan Pablo should get a redemption arc for his FS time with Andi and for his time in the ocean with Clare. And people should definitely stop slut-shaming Bob since all he seemed to do (as far as we knew) was kiss every woman in sight. If it's okay for Kaitlyn then its okay for everyone. (My issue is more that it seems disrespectful to the others--like I thought Chris,imo, sleeping with Britt was. But if she's ready to own it and be honest and just tell them all, "I'll sleep with Nick or Shawn or whomever...fun for me, whoo-hoo!" and take the consequences (which would probably everyone leaving), well, okay, then.  I just don't see her doing that. 

 

I don't understand what other contestants and what they do have to do with KAITLYN'S situation, which is what we're discussing here.  Kaitlyn is currently the topic du jour based on what went down on last night's show and from everything I've seen/read....she has owned it.  If people want to say THEY would not sleep with any of the others on the show because they feel it's disrespectful then that's THEIR decision.  All that's being said here is that Kaitlyn is hardly a slut or any other form of the word because she had consensual sex with a man she was dating.  The other men, when they find out, are within their free will to leave after they find out.  

 

However, for any of the other contestants on this show who kiss/hold hands with/screw any of the other participants on this show, my view would be the same.  They are adults and fully aware of the situation they are in.  If they want to do whatever with another consenting adult, it's none of my business.  I don't care.  

[Mu Shu]

True, I don't see a ton of compliments flying Bob's way.

Blob was universally despised.     Kaitlyn doesn't get a free pass because she's female.

 

I'm more mad that she had sex with the ugliest guy there,  and indulged in sexy talk less scintillating than a night in removing your own skin tags.    "I just wanna get ahold of you".    I like to think she's trying to get hold of Nick's junk, but alas, he has a micro peen and she's just voicing her frustration.     Never mind the fact that Nick looks like he smells of mildew and old ball sweat. 

 

I swear to god if they cancel  TMTA,  I will get Dr. Henry Wu to grow my very own Indominous Rex, which I will ride to LA to have very strong words with Chris Harrison.    I need to know why all these guys are pissed, and why they walked.     

[Stinamaia]

I don't understand what other contestants and what they do have to do with KAITLYN'S situation, which is what we're discussing here.  Kaitlyn is currently the topic du jour based on what went down on last night's show and from everything I've seen/read....she has owned it.  If people want to say THEY would not sleep with any of the others on the show because they feel it's disrespectful then that's THEIR decision.  All that's being said here is that Kaitlyn is hardly a slut or any other form of the word because she had consensual sex with a man she was dating.  The other men, when they find out, are within their free will to leave after they find out.  

 

However, for any of the other contestants on this show who kiss/hold hands with/screw any of the other participants on this show, my view would be the same.  They are adults and fully aware of the situation they are in.  If they want to do whatever with another consenting adult, it's none of my business.  I don't care.  

To say that one disagrees with what Kaitlyn did and thinks less of her for doing it, is hardly calling her a slut.  That's quite another thing entirely.  

 

I don't think less of Kaitlyn because I never thought a great deal of her to begin with.  I have trouble with all the "ors" and "etttes" making out like crazy with cameras inches from their faces.  It's a different thing.   Maybe some people kind of get a thrill out of public or nearly public lovemaking.   Ok.  Love is the wrong word.

 

My objection to the phrase "slut shaming" is that it seems to be a way to make people not expressing a negative opinion of any sexual behavior of women at any level whatsoever.  I get the whole double standard history etc. and I agree that it's unfair, but I don't have a high opinion of men who engage in sport sex either.   I've also heard words and phrases a lot more derogatory than "player" to describe them.   Just because I take a dim view of Kaitlyn doesn't mean I think she's a slut.  I don't think she's a slut.  She'd have to do something far worse to earn that sobriquet.   

Edited June 23, 2015 by Stinamaia

[Adeejay]

The slut-shaming going on towards her this morning is repulsive.

 

It's not "slut-shaming".  The timing and setting was inappropriate, unless she'd decide that Nick was the one.  And, at that point, she should have informed the other guys. 

[CaughtOnTape]

It's not "slut-shaming".  The timing and setting was inappropriate, unless she'd decide that Nick was the one.  And, at that point, she should have informed the other guys. 

 

Because you should only have sex with people you consider "the one"?

 

I'm in big big trouble.

[Alison]

Because you should only have sex with people you consider "the one"?

 

I'm in big big trouble.

You and me both.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I agree - who cares?  I think I missed all the federal and municipal laws that prevent consensual sex when you haven't explicitly whispered You're the One right beforehand.

 

Kaitlyn owes no explanation to anyone in my mind.  They're not literally her boyfriends.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Kerri Johnson]

Ben Z is as much of a famewhore as the rest of them. He's been using his mother as a storyline from Day 1. If he were truly torn up, like Tony he should've requested to sit out. I would've had some respect for him.

[Alison]

I'm not a fan of Nick, but I have to give him credit for this series of tweets last night:
http://www.crushable.com/2015/06/23/entertainment/television/nick-viall-intimacy-twitter-rant-kaitlyn-bristowe-the-bachelorette/

[Padma]

Chris Harrison was quoted as having told People mag earlier this year that "67% of those who go to the FS have sex." 

 

I think it was his statistical precision that made me laugh.

[jumper sage]

There I was screaming at the tv.......This show has just sunk to a crapfest.  The following comments are mine and mine alone and in no way is directed towards any other poster.

 

When Ian was going on and on I was going, "He is right on everything he says".  She says she wants total honesty but she looks like a murderess when every anyone dares to not worship her and tell her what they think.  She is shallow, she is surface, she does suck face, and more deeply then any other contestant I have seen, with any guy that walks in the room.  GROSS!  If I was a man on the show I would want her to brush her teeth and gargle with Listerine and to be fair, all the women on the bachelor should want that too.  Then Ian is in the limo and states he should be the next bachelor and then the coup de gras, he states he needs sex.  Oh well, two total idiots.

 

If I may circle back to the premise of this season - Two bachelorettes and the guys choose who will continue.......We were all screaming, "Misogyny!".  I am not surprised that even after that has calmed down and it seems like Brit is ok at the turn of events, the misogyny continues.  Of course they are going to paint her the whore.  How could she not have known that Ick would run and tell?  Did she not see Andi and when he outed her?  Was she set up?  Sure was.  Was she old enough to know better?  Sure is.  Yes, women have sex.  To be so cavalier and disrespectful of others you are dating is not nice in my book.  My opinion is that she was drunk and let things go to far and then was remorseful.  That whole thing is not empowering in any way.  She is a little too old to be acting like she's 18 and in her first apartment.  She is a joke in my book and is being played.  Hope the spotlight was worth it.

[Iwillnotacceptrose]

I think many people are grossed out by last night not so much because she had sex with a contestant, but b/c she had sex with NICK, who most viewers see as the most unattractive, unlikable guy left.  If that was Shawn or Ben Z people would be saying "Get it girl!"  It's just like how Nick got ripped to shreds last night on Twitter for kissing and telling again, even though he did not do so this time, while Shawn acted super possessive and jealous but received only positive, gushing comments.  That may not be fair but there it is.

 

I feel bad for Jared, I think he's truly falling for Kaitlyn, and doesn't realize this is a Shawn vs. Nick show.  The other guys seem to know what's up.

[leighdear]

Those Ick tweets were ridiculous. 

 

She didn't "admit" anything until after she was caught on tape.  And if there's more to intimacy than having sex, why was it so necessary for them to have it asap?  And he had to tweet out SIX separate "support" messages?  Self-serving, party of 1 - your table is ready.

 

Ick gets zero credit for that sanctimonious crap.  Idiot.

Edited June 23, 2015 by leighdear

[OnceSane]

The debate about whether slut-shaming is okay needs to stop. Please stick to discussing the episode and only the episode. Thank you.

[Mu Shu]

How many guys are or were really into her?  Joe, Tanner, and Cupcake do not seem to have two shits to give and are there for the food, booze, travel and bro time.   Unlike last  season's Ettes,  they hit the jackpot on travel.   Peter Brady seems to not give a fuck, either.

 

The only ones who seem really interested are Jared,  Shawn, Nick,  and maybe Benzie. 

 

Four out of 25.      Worst average ever.   

[Stinamaia]

BenZ is the only good looking one, imo. He seems nice, but on this show, who can tell?

[xtwheeler]

Nick is totally the kind if guy I would fall for on a night full of bad ideas and then feel gross about the next day. There is a time and place where his sort of greasy charm works. I've even been aware it was greasy charm at the time, and still done it just because there is a certain ease to it.

The "Nick is taking up our time and roses" really irritates me in that it totally denies Kaitlyn any agency. Her choices are her choices (producer influenced of course) and she doesn't owe these guys anything. They're basically saying "she owes me because of how I've behaved" which is pretty gross. It is her fiancee type stuff to dole out, and she doesn't owe anybody anything just because they're there (or went to Princeton).

[watcherwoman]

Tanner looks like Max Chmerkovskiy from Dancing with the Stars to me.  They could be brothers!

[TiredMe]

I was a bit concerned about Shawns reaction to the entire episode. IMO Nick told everyone (again ) he just had sex but Shawn, dude you are on a dating TV show. Keep it together man.

I think people (meaning me lol ) judge Nick differently is that he deliberately threw sex in AndI face to hurt her. Just wrong. Prob repeating myself but don't even care for AndI. I thought her poor me routine during the Juan Pablo situation was eye roll worthy. Like she didn't realize that guy was completely empty up there before getting into bed. Nick did it to be vile and I think he wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Just such a gross person.

That Britt part at the end, just cringeworthy. She's such a ding dong she didn't realize she's being made to look like a fool.

[ElectricCityy]

How many guys are or were really into her?  Joe, Tanner, and Cupcake do not seem to have two shits to give and are there for the food, booze, travel and bro time.   Unlike last  season's Ettes,  they hit the jackpot on travel.   Peter Brady seems to not give a fuck, either.

 

The only ones who seem really interested are Jared,  Shawn, Nick,  and maybe Benzie. 

 

Four out of 25.      Worst average ever.   

With the way this season has shaped up, I really don't blame 'em. I hope they had fun making best bro friends.

[NikSac]

With the way this season has shaped up, I really don't blame 'em. I hope they had fun making best bro friends.

 

I was thinking the same thing - at least hopefully a few good relationships will come out of this.

[Alapaki]

I only hold Kaitlyn to the standard that she set for herself.  By her own words, she did something with someone which she fears have jeopardized "the relationships she's developing" with one or more other guys.

 

Well, if she knows that's the case she ought to be mature enough to not do whatever she did.  

[Former Nun]

[re: Shawn] He opens up. He shuts down. He opens up. He shuts down. He can't take any more. He LOVES her. He shuts down. WHO would like to live with a guy like that? What kind of stability would his kids have? Oh, wait. As soon as he finds his perfect pretty princess, life will be rainbows and there will be no more shutting down. The Bachelorette solves everything for Shawn...just as the producers promised.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Rhondinella

[pitchy]

In the past it was assumed it was an even playing ground up until the FS and then whatever happened in the FS was not really spoken about. It was assumed that the B/Bette would probably sleep with their intended or perhaps (ala Andi) the two contenders.  Whatever.  I don't think anyone thinks it is a big deal that they had sex, but that it is being filmed for TV and that her other suitors will find out.  (Kaitylyn even told her parents not to watch this episode according to US...what does that say?)  I would not be surprised if some of the guys emotionally involved with her would leave after hearing what happened. No, she is not exclusive but it still could be thought of as a betrayal to them.  Of course the trips and TV experience may overrule those thougts!

 

Actually, if it's really a 'forever' type decision AND there are a few I like a lot, I'd likely want to know about how physical intimacy is with them before deciding even who goes onto the Fantasy Suite.  Irregular, maybe, but few of us have several we're interested in at the same time and are pressed to make a very heavy decision.

 

  Contrary to what some of us thought at first, she has quite a few nice guys here to choose from.

Edited June 24, 2015 by pitchy

[The Evil One]

I missed some of the things you all have mentioned in the episode - after all, they are so mind numbingly boring it is hard not to play Yahtzee with Friends while i watch! Given that Shawn got 6 hours of private time with her on the second group date (I missed how early it was in first viewing) I so much more understand him being angry and threatened.

I don't even necessarily think something physical (full on sex) happened. It could have been that one night (you know the one) where you stay up all night or for hours and it feels like 2 minutes and you learn everything (not really) about a person. It's that first blush of love. As manipulated as I know this show is, I think Shawn had that. And now he is pissed.

[Adeejay]

Because you should only have sex with people you consider "the one"?

 

I'm in big big trouble.

 

If you are on a reality show where there are several contestants vying for your hand, then yeah. 

[Padma]

I don't know how none of those guys laughed at the idea of having six hours of conversation with Kaitlyn.

 

I'm trying to figure out why I don't know who Tanner is.  Good looking, gets along with everyone, has a dry sense of humor. He sounds so much better than the ones I -do- remember (JJ, Nick, Shawn, Joe, the dentist, Jared, Ben Z). I did miss the rose ceremony, but obviously y'all have discovered someone that could brighten up this otherwise dismal season! (And, yes, she does seem to have quite a few good guys--all, imo, including Nick--too good for her.  I'd say she's my least favorite b-ette, but she's still in the running against Jen Scheft who didn't even enjoy having a great group of guys, or any of the activities. Kaitlyn's still got a ways to go to reach "Jen Scheft level" as a bad b-ette, because at least I can say she IS interested to some extent in at least two of them. Jen just made it a complete waste of time for everyone involved.

[Rhondinella]

Seems clear that Kaitlyn had sex with Shawn in their 5 hour "chat" that happened in the days preceding Nick's date.   That is why Shawn was so over the top upset by her date with Nick that ended up in a "chat" on her couch.  A normal date (coming home after dinner) with Nick would not elicit such a strong reaction culminating with a talk to his producer and wanting to walk out.   Nor would Kaitlyn be so upset that she had sex only with Nick.  She could easily justify, to herself, one clandestine sexual encounter.  

 

She is freaked out that they both will find out about the other.  Nick almost said it when he commented that their time together was intimate.  Shawn knew what that meant.   Looks like that may come to light next week. 

 

I like Kaitlyn and this season, now that it is rolling.  It is a welcome reprieve from the usual dull and strained effort we get every season. 

 

I loved catching the UnReal moments last night!  

 

Yeah I agree.  And unlike some have suggested, I think it was blatantly obvious to the other men when Nick came back in the same clothes, had clearly not been home all night (I mean, how would they NOT know that?) and then said they "talked" on the couch.  They all knew what had happened, they just weren't allowed to say it with the cameras on to preserve the "drama."  But that led to the fantastic passive-aggressiveness of Joe (I think?) telling Nick that Andi had "talked on the couch" with Shawn too.  He was clearly looking for Nick's reaction.  And if they had not understood the subtext of the whole situation, why would Shawn have looked so incredibly stricken, like he was about to puke?  There's no doubt in my mind that they all knew he had slept with her.  

 

And I hadn't thought about the Kaitlyn freakout as fear that the two guys she had slept with would come to blows, or it would ruin one or both relationship.  That makes a lot of sense.  They may have just edited it to look like she's rethinking what she did with Nick.

 

Ick

 

 

Love it.  Stealing it.

[violetr]

I'm not a fan of Nick, but I have to give him credit for this series of tweets last night:

http://www.crushable...e-bachelorette/

 

 

Thank you for this, Alison! I also really dig this one:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/92209-nick-viall-supports-bachelorette-kaitlyn-on-twitter-its-the-right-thing-to-do

[bantering]

When Kaitlyn and Nick did it, did they forget to take off their microphones? Did the producers make them keep the microphones on? Were drones with super special hearing powers flying overhead in the room? Was the room bugged?

 

This is not the first time I've seen two people on this show close the door behind them, but I can't recall actually hearing the moaning. WTF. Usually we'd have to guess whether two people did it or not.

 

Kaityln can do what she wants (none of this hurts my life in any way), and she seems prepared to deal with the consequences (I guess), but it's theTMI aspect that I find distasteful more than anything else. I guess I don't get why she needs people to know she did it with Nick (muffle the sounds in the room or SOMETHING). Why didn't she just keep what she did to herself like everyone else? (Ditto for Nick -- why is he on this show again?) I'm not saying you need to hide who you are, but people who share EVERYTHING on tv are going to be made fun of. You're more or less putting yourself out there to be judged/evaluated/critiqued whereas my next door neighbour (whatever it is he or she is doing) hasn't. I know more about Kaitlyn's sex life than I do about the people who live in my neighbourhood. A guy who genuinely loves her probably won't hold whatever she's done against her in their private lives, but I think it would be uncomfortable for even the nicest guy to have to deal with Chris Harrison asking him how he felt when he saw Nick do it with Kaitylin (we all know that question is coming. Chris Harrison really has no qualms about asking those kinds of squirmy questions...) Because of the fact you have to do a stupid interview at the specials wrapping things up where the "winner" has to explain his feelings, i do think a certain amount of decorum, either in terms of keeping information private if a "mistake" (her words) happens or avoiding sleeping with someone on tv,  is helpful and considerate to your future partner of 5 minutes in that regard.

 

On another note, why didn't Princeton Ian just leave earlier if he felt Kaitlyn wasn't into him (or vice versa)? Move on if you don't like her. That's what any other logical person without a Princeton degree would do. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by bantering

[Rhondinella]

Another reminder: avoid spoilers or potential spoilers about the outcome in this thread.  Even if something is in the news it doesn't make it fair game.  There are unspoiled people here.  Thanks.

[shok]

I thought prior to the season that Kaitlyn might have succeeded in bringing some levity to the show and participating in things in a tongue in cheek manner, but that's not been the case.

 

Actually, I think it probably has been. Whenever the guys talk about Kaitlyn, they mention her sense of humor (well, except for Ian who didn't find anything to like about her!) and how much fun she is. That's certainly not what we're seeing but that's the editor's fault, not Kaitlyn's. They've decided to go for the hokey drama this year and they've created a horror show of bad acting and fake scenes instead of showing the fun encounters she's had with the guys. The men wouldn't have come up with some of those 'eulogies' if they hadn't thought that Kaitlyn would have a good laugh about them.

 

I think most viewers forget that they've filmed hours upon hours upon hours of interaction (plus there are hours and hours of them all talking and joking and hanging out with each other that isn't filmed while they're setting up shots and getting from Point A to Point B and whatnot) and we see a minuscule amount of it on any given show. A date can last from four to six to ten hours and they air maybe 10 minutes of it. We really don't have enough information about what actually happened to make definitive judgements about what kind of people they are or what decisions they've made. It's an entertainment (using that word lightly) show, not real life.

 

 

The only ones who seem really interested are Jared,  Shawn, Nick,  and maybe Benzie. 

 

Four out of 25.      Worst average ever.   

 

I disagree. Four out of 25 is actually pretty good relative to most seasons. On virtually every season, by the time you get past the last couple of contestants standing, the rest of them were never really in the running and have hung in there because of the Stockholm Syndrome psychosis that overcomes them all and the competition of wanting to win the 'prize'. 

[violetr]

Aw, Ali is pretty cool:

 

http://www.aliluvs.com/blog/2015/6/22/shaun-really-hates-nick-show

[Bugs Meany]

The only ones who seem really interested are Jared,  Shawn, Nick,  and maybe Benzie.

Four out of 25.      Worst average ever.

I disagree. Four out of 25 is actually pretty good relative to most seasons.

 

Most seasons have only two or three contestants who are really interested in the Bachelor/Bachelorette? I can't think of any where that was the case.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Bugs Meany

[JudyObscure]

I don't know how none of those guys laughed at the idea of having six hours of conversation with Kaitlyn.

I don't think they had sex, so maybe they see it the way I do. Shawn's in love with Kaitlyn. He shows all the symptoms of the condition, erratic mood swings, agonizing waits by the phone (date card box) and most of all, he sees the object of his affection through rose colored glasses. He would have spent six hours with this paragon, talking and keeping his hands to himself because he would "know," that she wouldn't want to have sex while the show was running. As Jared might say, I don't trust Kaitlyn but I trust Shawn. Edited June 24, 2015 by OnceSane

[Pixel]

If I was Kaitlyn, I'd be banging whichever of those guys struck my fancy.  Why shouldn't she?  She's right - she should live in the moment and use her time to figure out who she likes being with the most.

 

Having said that, I think she shows really poor judgment in choosing to bang Nick. That guy is a slimeball.

[anony mouse]

Why shouldn't she? Perhaps because she's on national television, and broadcasting who you've had sex with nationally is uncouth?

If she wants to do that on her own time, I don't judge, but I don't want to see it on my tv.

[bantering]

I don't get why she did it with Nick of all people if she doesn't want any of the other guys finding out.

 

Although now that everything has aired, I guess whoever she's with now knows?

[jackjill89]

For some reason, I think Ian thought that if he confronted Kaitlyn about his feelings, like Andi did with Juan Pablo, he'd be in the position to be the next Bachelor. However, what this gift to women from Princeton who is a former model and defied death was too stupid to see is that in order to be considered to be the Bachelor viewers have to like you, and he was anything but likable in his TH rants. You also don't come out and say you want to be the bachelor. What an idiot. While there was some truth in what he said to Kaitlyn, the way he said it was incredibly smug and condescending. He blew it big time. He went from being an early favorite of mine to being one of my most disliked bachelor contestants ever. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by jackjill89

[MakeMeLaugh]

If I was Kaitlyn, I'd be banging whichever of those guys struck my fancy. Why shouldn't she? She's right - she should live in the moment and use her time to figure out who she likes being with the most.

Having said that, I think she shows really poor judgment in choosing to bang Nick. That guy is a slimeball.

But as you just said, why shouldn't she bang Nick if you think "she should bang whichever of those guys strike her fancy"? This makes no sense to me--why are you calling her for "poor judgment" about him as he obviously "strikes her fancy"? (ETA Sorry, I'm not calling you out for this, it's been expressed by others that she should explore her sexual connection with "anyone but Nick" and I don't like him either but she apparently does, or just likes having random sex).

I won't watch another season of this, personally--not liking her (seriously, how does this woman even support herself?) but it's a different show now. They should just call it Fantasy Suite and replace any romance with the suspense of which guys will she bang on tonight's episode? Geez, throw me a rose ceremony instead.

Edited June 24, 2015 by MakeMeLaugh

[Pixel]

This makes no sense to me--why are you calling her for "poor judgment" about him as he obviously "strikes her fancy"? (ETA Sorry, I'm not calling you out for this, it's been expressed by others that she should explore her sexual connection with "anyone but Nick" and I don't like him either but she apparently does, or just likes having random sex).

Because Nick's gross. Period. She also showed poor judgement in my opinion in giving him the one-on-one date, for the same reasons. Granted, perhaps she doesn't find Nick as slimy as I do, but that's why I think her judgment is poor. Even if she hadn't had sex with him, I'd still feel like he's a bad choice to partner with for anything. Even a game of Doubles tennis.

It's actually a compliment, because essentially what I'm saying is that she should recognize that she deserves better than a guy like him. Unless it was just a one and done in her mind, and if so-good for her.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Pixel

[bantering]

Nick was pretty angry at Andi after she rejected him (and he had had time to think things out), so that's why I would be wary of him. He might say something on one of those specials that could interfere with her current relationship. Maybe he won't, but he's shown in the past he's capable of doing that.

Edited June 24, 2015 by bantering

[Kimmature]

She could bang every one of them in rotation on the bottling floor of the Guinness factory and I wouldn't care.  I have difficulties when a person's words directly contradict their behavior and vice versa. And not as a result of creative editing.

At this point I've got zero idea what is editing and what isn't.  Voiceovers, interviews apparently filmed weeks later that may not have anything to do with the actual event they're supposed to be discussing, the producers skipping over things (Kaitlyn in Sean's room for hours), really bad audio cutting to produce moaning and groaning behind a bedroom door (when they're obviously using a different track).  The editing has just sucked this season- I always expect a villain of the week etc, but the editing is so out there that I don't even care much about the storyline now.  Clint goes from vaguely cute triceratops drawing guy who gets along well with Kaitlyn to gay for TV to asshole in about 10 minutes, Ian (who certainly seemed like a well-adjusted man for the first few episodes) all of a sudden goes off his rocker, Joshua gets the idiot edit.  I never thought that I'd feel sorry for Britt, but that last bit with her was a bit painful to watch. 

 

And they seem to be going over the top with the previews, compared to what actually happens. Who knows what she's crying about in the ITMs (whenever they happened)- they'll be pasted in to produce whatever effect the producers want.  I didn't see her GMA appearance or anything, but from what I have seen, Kaitlyn seems to be owning the choices that she made during filming.  

[Zung Li]

At this point I've got zero idea what is editing and what isn't.  Voiceovers, interviews apparently filmed weeks later that may not have anything to do with the actual event they're supposed to be discussing, the producers skipping over things (Kaitlyn in Sean's room for hours), really bad audio cutting to produce moaning and groaning behind a bedroom door (when they're obviously using a different track).  The editing has just sucked this season- I always expect a villain of the week etc, but the editing is so out there that I don't even care much about the storyline now.  Clint goes from vaguely cute triceratops drawing guy who gets along well with Kaitlyn to gay for TV to asshole in about 10 minutes, Ian (who certainly seemed like a well-adjusted man for the first few episodes) all of a sudden goes off his rocker, Joshua gets the idiot edit.  I never thought that I'd feel sorry for Britt, but that last bit with her was a bit painful to watch. 

 

And they seem to be going over the top with the previews, compared to what actually happens. Who knows what she's crying about in the ITMs (whenever they happened)- they'll be pasted in to produce whatever effect the producers want.  I didn't see her GMA appearance or anything, but from what I have seen, Kaitlyn seems to be owning the choices that she made during filming.  

She said the sounds were not edited in. They turned off their mics but the camera outside the door recorded the sound. I think it was her ET interview. I agree with the rest. I still don't get the Clint situation, and what happened to Naked Running Guy? I was really looking forward to that.

 

Edit because I found out Naked Running Guy was just Shawn playing strip golf. Lame.

Edited June 26, 2015 by mingming

[ByTor]

This is not the first time I've seen two people on this show close the door behind them, but I can't recall actually hearing the moaning.

Tina "Fabulous" and Andrew Firestone had a FS date, and I remember the camera panning away from the hotel with the sound of moaning. I don't know if it was ever revealed that they did anything, but the editors wanted us to think so!

Edited June 24, 2015 by ByTor

[backformore]

I think one important point HAS to be made when people are talking about a double standard for Bachelorette vs Bachelor having sex.   the producers are in charge of what we see.   Have Bachelors ever had sex on the show before the fantasy suite?   yes, we've seen it - but it's always been portrayed as the women being too forward, going to the guy's room, enticing him to a midnight swim.  So when Nick goes to "comfort"  Kaitlyn and they end up in bed, we're getting Kaitlyn's moans and sex talk.  the portrayal is that she got "carried away", and regretted it later.  She has poor control over her sexual impulses, poor girl.  

If there is any slut-shaming going on, it is the producers of the show who are deciding what to put on the TV, and they are giving this portrayal.   Shawn in near tears because he finds out Kaitlyn had sex with Nick, Nick consoling Kaitlyn and ending up in her bed.   Even showing all the makeout sessions, yet rarely showing a CONVERSATION between Kaitlyn and one of the guys.    The whole show is being given a "Kaitlyn is a slut"  edit.   Ian said she is shallow.  Maybe she IS -  she seems pretty shallow, from what we've seen.  Or maybe that's what they want to portray.

I don't recall any of the Bachelors being given such a bad story -  except Juan Pablo, and that wasn't until much later in his season. 

[bantering]

I think editing plays a role, but Kaitlyn probably gave them a lot to work with.

 

I remember there was  a contestant (during the season with the British bachelor) where she got into some nightgown and let the cameras see what she was taking off. I didn't really understand why she allowed the cameras so much access. 

 

The editing for male Bachelors might be different because I can't picture a guy bawling on camera the way Kaitlyn did about her "mistake" (but that's mainly because guys crying like that in public isn't really a cultural norm, not because men are superior emotional beings. I think he'd be too worried about how his crying might look to the public). Maybe she should have asked to speak to the show's therapist off-camera, but not revealed anything to the directors and camera crew. The latter will definitely sell you out! So will Chris Harrison! 

Edited June 24, 2015 by bantering

[chocolatine]

As far as having the mics turned on and hearing what goes on during "private" time, I seem to remember that when Mesnick and Molly had their first 1-on-1 date - and it was really early in the season because everyone was still at the mansion - they camped overnight in the yard of the house where Mesnick was staying, and there was quite a bit of moaning coming out of the tent. But there was no morning-after angst from either of them. Molly went back to the mansion in the morning wearing Mesnick's shirt (I think) and was really coy with the other girls about what happened. There were some raised eyebrows, but nobody threw a hissy fit or walked out.

[violetr]

Because Nick's gross. Period. She also showed poor judgement in my opinion in giving him the one-on-one date, for the same reasons. Granted, perhaps she doesn't find Nick as slimy as I do, but that's why I think her judgment is poor. Even if she hadn't had sex with him, I'd still feel like he's a bad choice to partner with for anything. Even a game of Doubles tennis.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't find him gross at all, especially after his supportive comments on Twitter after the episode aired. As for someone's judgment on the show, all this and more is addressed in this wonderful, insightful post by Sharleen Joynt on the episode. Love this woman.

http://www.flare.com/celebrity/sharleen-joynt-on-the-bachelorette-episode-seven/