S07.E05: Mind Your Own Business

[SFoster21]

I thought Carol mentioned GW because A had approached her, Carol, about being her, A's GW.

Just wondering if she found someone. A made it into a Thing. But I could be wrong.

[barbedwire]

I couldn't watch, again, once the nitpicking and fighting started.  I do agree that Heather is just trying to stay relevant and in the main story line.  Dorninda's hair looked great when they were at the bar! Kristen changing on the street?  Klassy.

[Portae]

So let me get this straight. Two seasons ago, Carole was pissed because she felt that Luanne took advantage of their association in order to borrow a dress from Carole's fashion designer friend, Naeem Khan. But then Carole uses her friendship with Luanne (meeting her family, staying in her home, etc.) as an opportunity to scoop up a man, and can't understand why Luanne might be annoyed?

[Trooper York]

Well. The chef fit her better.

[imjagain]

So let me get this straight. Two seasons ago, Carole was pissed because she felt that Luanne took advantage of their association in order to borrow a dress from Carole's fashion designer friend, Naeem Khan. But then Carole uses her friendship with Luanne (meeting her family, staying in her home, etc.) as an opportunity to scoop up a man, and can't understand why Luanne might be annoyed?

Exactly!

While I think Luanne is going overboard, I might be annoyed too.

Carol, made such a giant deal about her beloved friends. Lu was dragged by a lot people saying who does she think she is. As if borrowing a dress had never been Done.

Carole was ridiculous about her sainted friends being put in a bad position.

[phoenix780]

I'm loving this season so far.  

 

I've decided that Luann's niece was still in love with Adam, who dumped her, and that Luann hired him to keep him close in the hopes he'd rediscover his love for her (which would have happened on their trip).  So she's pissed that she wasted money and time, and that her plan was thwarted by Carole.  As far as her being randomly upset now when she may have been chill before: I'm grateful for that.  Sometimes you have to catch up with blogs and whatnot to figure out what happened between seasons.  Luann may have stored her anger until the show was airing, and I appreciate that.

 

That said, don't they include Twitter impressions (whatever the hell those are) in ratings now?  So if Luann starts this trend of angry live-tweeting it can only help the show.  If that wasn't encouraged by production, it should have been.  Which is to say: I'm not entirely convinced all the outrage is real, but it's certainly fun for now, imho.  I'll change my mind in two weeks if they're still sniping at each other about it.

 

I feel like Sonja doesn't understand her brand.  It's not "accessible luxury," it's "aging courtesan."  She should roll with that, maybe open a school (officially).

 

I still like Kristen, but she does not need to be on the show.  And Heather...is she going to call Beth to explore her feelings about not being at Dorinda's party?  

 

I'm just now realizing how much my opinion of these characters is based on who's around them.  I liked Carole, Heather, and Kristen a lot more when contrasted with Aviva than I am with Bethenney, revitalized Ramona, and Dorinda (who I really enjoy).  

[archer1267]

This tired creature seems to view herself as a figurehead, appearing on talk shows and in magazines and giving pithy quotes about how her "brand" is redefining fashion and lifestyle -- all with zero desire to actually work at making it a reality.

 

 

I would LOVE to see Sonja interact with her daughter on the show. I know that will never happen and I understand, but I often forget that Sonja is a mom. She's such a hot mess and can barely take care of herself, and it's kind of hard to imagine her sitting quietly on the patio with Quincy, drinking tea and helping her with homework. Maybe she's regimented when it comes to her child, but not with anything else? Who knows. 

 

With Hollywood, it wasn't a case of Sonja being flim-flammed so much as she promised and then didn't deliver. (Where have we seen that before??) That's Sonja's M.O. - she can talk a good game, or at least could talk a good game, before she became the girl who cried wolf. She used the Morgan name to get attention and be seen as a player, and committed $18M that she probably never had. As this article says, "Sonja apparently breezed into Hollywood when she got her settlement from old man Morgan….talking shit and taking names. Sonja…didn't seem to know that Hollywood production is business first and BS later. So, after hyping [her] production company up, she changes her so-called mind and withdraws the money, like one would return an item to Neiman Marcus."

[Mozelle]

So let me get this straight. Two seasons ago, Carole was pissed because she felt that Luanne took advantage of their association in order to borrow a dress from Carole's fashion designer friend, Naeem Khan. But then Carole uses her friendship with Luanne (meeting her family, staying in her home, etc.) as an opportunity to scoop up a man, and can't understand why Luanne might be annoyed?

 

But again--Carole went to LuAnn not too long after she found out about what LuAnn did. It bothered her and she brought it up with LuAnn. She didn't wait until after filming had wrapped, all the while being buddy-buddy with her after the fact, wait for the show to air, and then dig into LuAnn's behind on social media about the dress. 

 

To me, there's a stark difference. 

[SFoster21]

But again--Carole went to LuAnn not too long after she found out about what LuAnn did. It bothered her and she brought it up with LuAnn. She didn't wait until after filming had wrapped, all the while being buddy-buddy with her after the fact, wait for the show to air, and then dig into LuAnn's behind on social media about the dress.

To me, there's a stark difference.

No effing kidding. Love and dresses are not the same.

[Mondrianyone]

Having help is different from having or using a "ghostwriter". An editor helps but a ghost writer does all the work. Carole admitted to her editor helping her.

Every book that gets published has help.  That's what editors and the publishing process are all about.  I'm helping a novel at this very moment.  It's how I make a living.  So admitting to having help from your editor is essentially meaningless.  It's like admitting you get medical advice from your doctor.  The issue is whether Carole gets more than the standard editorial help.  I think she does.

[Quita]

I do have to wonder, how long ago was this break-up and how bad was it? You'd think if the niece was so hurt that she can't bear the thought of some friend of her aunt's dating the guy, she wouldn't be cool with her aunt hiring him to work in the kitchen. Wouldn't he be SHUNNED? There just has to be more to it.....right?

 

Coming out of the shadows to comment on "Adamgate".  I agree with Ghoulina's post regarding Luann hiring Adam to work for her.  I know he's her son's friend, but if he hurt her niece so badly, why would she employ him in her home.  I would think Luann would also be very upset with Adam, not just Carole since it takes two to tango.  Where are the harsh words for him?  Bottom line, though - if Adam wanted to be with Nicole, he'd be with Nicole.

 

[chlban]

The same person who thought it was appropriate to drop down on the floor and do push-ups at a cocktail party.

 

I'm glad Heather's true colors are finally showing!  I haven't liked her since her first episode.  I don't understand why she's picking fights with everyone this season.  She seems really angry.  

 

Sonja's boytoy looks like Ryan from Million Dollar Listings.  

Yes. I thought that was who it was. But then on the first episode I thought Dorinda was dating Joe Guduice. 

 

Sonja's boytoy is most definitely gay and just either getting paid to appear or is just another famewhore. Sonja is so being taken, but she also so deserves it. 

 

I have never really got all the Heather love so I am kind of glad that she seems to be showing her real stripes this year. I did like Carole though, but I am not buying into her Carrie Bradshaw imitation. I do with Lu would lay off though, for Lu's sake, not Carole's. She is making herself look petty and vindictive.

 

ETA that Sonja is being taken by her "team" not the boytoy. I am pretty sure both her and the kid know the score.

Edited May 6, 2015 by chlban

[WireWrap]

So let me get this straight. Two seasons ago, Carole was pissed because she felt that Luanne took advantage of their association in order to borrow a dress from Carole's fashion designer friend, Naeem Khan. But then Carole uses her friendship with Luanne (meeting her family, staying in her home, etc.) as an opportunity to scoop up a man, and can't understand why Luanne might be annoyed?

 Carole did not go to LuAnn's house looking for a guy whereas, LuAnn did go to Carole's friend looking for a freebie! Intent make all the difference IMO.

[Mozelle]

No effing kidding. Love and dresses are not the same.

 

You don't say? ;)

 

What I'm talking about are the approaches. I'm just having such a hard time believing that LuAnn is truly upset about this. The timing of it all just reeks of LuAnn trying to maintain some relevance since, as some others have pointed out, LuAnn drifts between Adam is staff! The horrors! and Adam is my niece's ex-boyfriend who hurt my niece! For shame!

 

So, he hurt your niece, but you continue to hire him? He hurt your niece, but you're shitting on Carole for dating him? None of it makes sense to me...except the idea that LuAnn is working to keep her job during post-production.

[EmZeeGee]

The tweet was a joke.

I don't think Carole should even engage Luann tbh.

Of course it was a joke, of course Carole would never have been an au pair. That's exactly what I get for posting so late instead of going to sleep. But also this:

I have to say that I would be feeling a certain kinda way too if I found out that a friend I brought into my family circle, who had become privy to some probably intimate details of my niece and her BF's relationship, upped and started dating said BF after they broke up, albeit an alleged year after the break up.

 

It still runs into dangerous territory for me when you've heard my relationship woes as more than an acquaintance to me and proceed to date the person in question. I can understand if Carole was some proverbial bartender that's doubling as a therapist in the moment, but it seems there's more to it than this. I suppose I need some clarity on the niece and Carole's relationship to one another. Very much shades of Brandi dating Max's friend.

 

Since this seems to be the season of hustlers, gigolos and boy toys, I've grown curious about Sonja's. Looking at his Instagram-- when I can manage to tear away from looking at his abs-- there are no mentions of anything Housewives related and it's very Model 101 that agencies advise you to do. He's also with some of the best modeling agencies in NY and LA, has no talent agent and we've never hardly heard him speak. So I'm wondering what is his purpose in dating Sonja? Love? I'm too cynical to believe that. No. Wealth? Can't be to Sonja's because it doesn't exist and a Google search could tell you that. Access? I guess Sonja gets invited to a few things here and there still, but he could easily snag himself a bigger fish. Screen time? For what? He has no talent agent and hardly talks as I mentioned above. I'm thinking he's just a paid escort or something similar?

[ScoobieDoobs]

Based on her blogs, I think Bethenny is starting to be nervous about the season playing out.

 

 

She has no reason to be.  Ratings are great -- and I have no doubt it's only because of Bethenny.  If Kristen's presence will only be for B to chew her up & spit her out, that's OK by me.  But bring that on already, show, cuz otherwise Kristen is a total waste of time.  I watched this ep again & Kristen did, in fact, encourage & never stop John from grinding his crotch on her ass, while putting his hands on her hips, as others here noted.  I cringed watching that scene.  Who the hell does that to a married woman -- while her husband is a few feet away?  And why did Josh the Dickhead NOT stop that?  Sheesh, what a useless fuckin' tool.

 

So what is the scoop with Kristen?  Did she later realize she let John go too far (on camera yet too -- gak!) and then backtrack in her TH, by saying something to the effect that he did go too far?  I feel no sympathy for her cuz she NEVER made any attempt to stop him.  But he is an absolute pig for behaving that way with a married woman.  I'm not getting what Dorito is doing with him.  She seems to know he's a pig.  And I'm still giving a huge side-eye as to wtf he was doing in the backroom of that sleazy joint they were all in with those hustler boys.

 

This is from Bethenny's blog about Sonja's "team"....."If she isn't putting up her own money, which she isn't, then no harm, no foul (time and reputation aside)." I suspect that Sonja is nothing more than the face/"celebrity" name for this clothing line and that this "team" came to her, not that she found them or that the idea was hers to begin with.

 

Gee, Idk, I think so far, B is doing OK for the show.  We've seen Sonja's delusions & fake businesses & her con artist shtick so many times, it's extremely boring by now.  But B's reaction to this now tiresome bullshit has brought a freshness to it.  Satan Andy was absolutely right to throw that million bucks at B.  She has saved the show -- for now.

 

And a way to get reality tv veteran, Nicole, signed on for next season.

 

Is Lu's niece a reality vet?  Has she made an appearance on the show a few seasons back, with Lu?  Well, one thing they really could use on the show is some young blood.  Hannah is NOT it.  Kristen ain't it either.  But it sounds like Nicole's presence would be a stretch.  Still not seeing why Nicole would care anything about Carole & Adam having a relationship, when she & Adam broke up over a year ago.  And what Carole does in her personal life is absolutely none of Lu's business.  So she met Adam while he was working for Lu one time.  Big woo.  I'm not digging the nasty swipes Carole & Lu are taking at each other.  Very lowball, nasty comments to each other.  And I just bet Satan Andy is encouraging & enjoying this nasty bullshit.

Edited May 6, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Primetimer]

Between picking fights with Ramona for the fun of it and trying desperately to convince Bethenny that her business isn't a fever dream, Sonja is too busy being Sonja to listen to reason.

Read the story

[Trooper York]

Dorito seems to have been brought on board to be Ramona's friend and surrogate. That party was your typical Bravo hot mess where the rookies get wasted and end up looking really bad.

I wonder if Kim Richards was locked in the bathroom?

[Lemons]

Why was she tolerating this & where in the fuckety fuck was Dickhead in the stupid hat, while his wife was being assaulted by that baboon?  I hated the end of this ep, where John was molesting both Sonja & Kristen.  

 

 

Problem was, Sonja and Kristen were loving it, especially Sonja.  Kristen could have walked away a lot sooner.  So gross.

[Trooper York]

Being molested by gross guys is actually Kristen's brand. That is in the Models handbook right next to only eating almonds for dinner.

[trimthatfat]

I think Kristen realized the situation was inappropriate in retrospect. Carole said there was a lot of drinking going on that night when she was on WWHL. I don't agree that Kristen's husband should have stopped anything - it seemed like it was all in 'fun' and Kristen wasn't in any danger.

Being molested by gross guys is actually Kristen's brand. That is in the Models handbook right next to only eating almonds for dinner.

Wow.

[TVFan17]

All of the Real Housewives casts in every city have the same effect on me -- collectively and individually.  There are times I really like certain ladies in each city.  I think I have gone through stages of liking every single housewife in every city at some point, and then I have gone through stages of disliking them.  Sometimes I like the ladies all season, and sometimes I only like them for a few episodes.  Likewise, sometimes I am annoyed by certain ladies all season.   I am never consistently "Team Bethenny" or "Team Vicki" or "Team Nene" or "Team Kyle" or whatever.  I always vacillate with my opinions. 

 

I think that some drama is needed on these shows -- though sometimes I wonder how truly "dramatic" these situations would actually be if there were no cameras around -- so I understand how the people who bring drama on the shows are necessary.  That said... sometimes certain situations are just unnecessary. 

 

For example -- I know that Carole (who I used to like) has a right to date anyone she wants.  She's a grown woman.  BUT... she chose to invite extra drama into her life -- and then declare that she doesn't care how anyone feels about it -- by dating Adam.  That is just not necessary.  She can get other 'young stuff' somewhere else.  She can meet men anywhere.  She didn't need to date someone who had been with Lu's niece, and who was still connected to Lu's niece in some way -- a girl who Carole had socialized with (she went to lunch with Lu and the niece), and talked to about Adam!

 

Of course Adam is going to downplay (to Carole) whatever lasting connection exists between him and Lu's niece.  He's young, and probably immature, and that's what guys do when they are trying to score points with a new woman.  Most likely, he and Lu's niece were still hooking up in some way -- and even if they weren't still having sex, quite possibly Lu's niece may have still had feelings for him. 

 

Carole is a worldly, older, supposedly sophisticated woman who knows better.  She didn't just fall off of the turnip truck.  She knows that guys will lie about their connections to women and claim that they are "just friends."  Why would she take what Adam says at face value, even though she knew that he was still connected to Lu's niece in some way?  Why would she want to risk doing anything to hurt her friend's niece?

 

Carole said on WWHL that she thought that she and Lu were friends at one point, but not now.  If that's true -- IF she really thought they were friends -- why would she say on RHoNYC and on WWHL that she didn't care what Lu thought or felt about any of it?  When you have true friends, you are supposed to care what they think!  You are supposed to not want to rock the boat. You are supposed to not want to disregard their feelings.

 

I think that Carole is trying too hard to seem like she is not trying, if that makes sense.  She comes off as so chill, so cool, so carefree, so drama-free -- but it's too much.   It's a forced kind of cool, and I think it's not entirely real.  It is actually beginning to come off as cold.

 

Again, Carole knows better.  She can date anyone.  She has dated Ralph Fiennes, George Clooney and probably many others we don't know about.  You mean to tell me that she just couldn't keep her hands off of some young chef who had dated her "friend" Lu's niece?  The connection with and attraction to that one lone guy was so powerful that she just couldn't resist and walk away?  That makes her seem like an immature cougar who can't control herself (and we already have at least one of those on the show, so it's not necessary to have another).

 

Anyway... all of that is to say that I used to like Carole -- and I am sure I will like her again in the future -- but, right now, I am not digging her, and I don't understand her choices.  If she were desperate and couldn't get any bone elsewhere, it would make more sense to me that she would use poor judgment.  But she's not desperate.  She's not 25 years old.  She has been around the block.  She should simply know better.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Sherry67

[The Mighty Peanut]

Kohl's is a great idea and would give Sonja's reach something to actually grasp. Lady Morgan, you owe The Mighty Peanut a commission!

Where's my car? I want my car!

But seriously, I think it would be a good place to hawk her wares. If home goods worked she could branch out to misses professional wear and lingerie. It would satisfy her "lifestyle brand" which IMO best translates to stuff that's kinda jetsetty but like for poor people. Of course, this is only if Barney's doesn't snatch it up first. :/

Edited May 6, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[archer1267]

But again--Carole went to LuAnn not too long after she found out about what LuAnn did. It bothered her and she brought it up with LuAnn. She didn't wait until after filming had wrapped, all the while being buddy-buddy with her after the fact, wait for the show to air, and then dig into LuAnn's behind on social media about the dress.

 

To me, there's a stark difference.

 

Indeed, and it comes down to intent. LuAnn visited Naeem specifically to borrow a dress, and to leverage her connection to Carole. Carole did not intentionally set out to use LuAnn's home as a cruising ground. She showed up for a party, the attraction between her and Adam happened organically and Carole wasn't looking to get something tangible from associating with LuAnn. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Heather and LuAnn don't care about Sonja's clothing line. They just want to witness the train wreck up close so they can snicker about it, later.

 

And why not? Sonja has been nothing but highhanded and rude and dissmissive of Heather's origanal efforts to help her. The Toaster over was a train wreck and that was all on Sonja

[SFoster21]

All of the Real Housewives casts in every city have the same effect on me -- collectively and individually. There are times I really like certain ladies in each city. I think I have gone through stages of liking every single housewife in every city at some point, and then I have gone through stages of disliking them. Sometimes I like the ladies all season, and sometimes I only like them for a few episodes. Likewise, sometimes I am annoyed by certain ladies all season. I am never consistently "Team Bethenny" or "Team Vicki" or "Team Nene" or "Team Kyle" or whatever. I always vacillate with my opinions.

I think that some drama is needed on these shows -- though sometimes I wonder how truly "dramatic" these situations would actually be if there were no cameras around -- so I understand how the people who bring drama on the shows are necessary. That said... sometimes certain situations are just unnecessary.

For example -- I know that Carole (who I used to like) has a right to date anyone she wants. She's a grown woman. BUT... she chose to invite extra drama into her life -- and then declare that she doesn't care how anyone feels about it -- by dating Adam. That is just not necessary. She can get other 'young stuff' somewhere else. She can meet men anywhere. She didn't need to date someone who had been with Lu's niece, and who was still connected to Lu's niece in some way -- a girl who Carole had socialized with (she went to lunch with Lu and the niece), and talked to about Adam!

Of course Adam is going to downplay (to Carole) whatever lasting connection exists between him and Lu's niece. He's young, and probably immature, and that's what guys do when they are trying to score points with a new woman. Most likely, he and Lu's niece were still hooking up in some way -- and even if they weren't still having sex, quite possibly Lu's niece may have still had feelings for him.

Carole is a worldly, older, supposedly sophisticated woman who knows better. She didn't just fall off of the turnip truck. She knows that guys will lie about their connections to women and claim that they are "just friends." Why would she take what Adam says at face value, even though she knew that he was still connected to Lu's niece in some way? Why would she want to risk doing anything to hurt her friend's niece?

Carole said on WWHL that she thought that she and Lu were friends at one point, but not now. If that's true -- IF she really thought they were friends -- why would she say on RHoNYC and on WWHL that she didn't care what Lu thought or felt about any of it? When you have true friends, you are supposed to care what they think! You are supposed to not want to rock the boat. You are supposed to not want to disregard their feelings.

I think that Carole is trying too hard to seem like she is not trying, if that makes sense. She comes off as so chill, so cool, so carefree, so drama-free -- but it's too much. It's a forced kind of cool, and I think it's not entirely real. It is actually beginning to come off as cold.

Again, Carole knows better. She can date anyone. She has dated Ralph Fiennes, George Clooney and probably many others we don't know about. You mean to tell me that she just couldn't keep her hands off of some young chef who had dated her "friend" Lu's niece? The connection with and attraction to that one lone guy was so powerful that she just couldn't resist and walk away? That makes her seem like an immature cougar who can't control herself (and we already have at least one of those on the show, so it's not necessary to have another).

Anyway... all of that is to say that I used to like Carole -- and I am sure I will like her again in the future -- but, right now, I am not digging her, and I don't understand her choices. If she were desperate and couldn't get any bone elsewhere, it would make more sense to me that she would use poor judgment. But she's not desperate. She's not 25 years old. She has been around the block. She should simply know better.

What I saw on the show was Carole specifically targeting this guy. The implication was that they just met. Now, it appears that she knew the back story, along with details, about his prior relationship and still set her cap for the guy.

Makes you go, "hmmm," imo.

[racked]

I really did not like it when Carole said she knew Lu's niece, Nicole, was upset, but she didn't care. 

 

I am all for honesty and I believe Carole sincerely doesn't give a damn about Nicole, but still - you shouldn't say something like that because it makes you sound like an insensitive asshole.  Or reveals you to be an insensitive asshole, I should say.

 

I mean, Carole has got the guy, Nicole doesn't.  And Nicole is apparently hurt by this fact.  I don't expect Carole to break up with him to please Nicole but a little graciousness would go a long way.  Here's an idea: just say fucking nothing about Nicole, Carole.  Keep her name out of your mouth if all you can say regarding her is that you don't care she's upset. 

 

Of all the petty snipes Carole has made about the other housewives, I think this offhand, dismissive little comment from her bothers me the most.  It just slid out of her mouth unlike the forced, rehearsed quips she usually makes in her talking heads.  I think it says a lot about her, none of it good. 

Carole thinks she's a stealth bitch but there's nothing stealth about it. She's just a straight up bitch, and I'm glad her nasty side is coming out more openly now. 

[phoenix780]

Being molested by gross guys is actually Kristen's brand. That is in the Models handbook right next to only eating almonds for dinner.

Almonds, as in more than one?  Only if you're trying to enter the plus-sized market.

 

I don't feel like I've seen Carole be nasty yet.  There's no yelling, no pointing, and the only thing thrown is shade. 

[sekay87]

Dude. Heather is SO unbearable. I can't with her anymore. Dorinda had a point when she said that everyone constantly poking at Sonja's businesses is just mean at this point. I do agree that Sonja is batshit and that her businesses aren't real, but Heather and Lu don't need to constantly point that out. Sonja is an adult. Let her live. Let her make mistakes because she's obviously not learning. If they're tired of hearing about her fake business ventures, maybe stop asking about them? I don't know. I totally saw Dorinda's point there. It was just mean at the cocktail party for them to corner her and start giving her a hard time. It's a party Heather. Calm the heck down.

You skipped over the part about Carole and Lu in the recap. I'm enjoying the Twitter drama in large part because it's so ridiculous to see 2 grown women airing their dirty laundry on a social media site. Is anyone else thinking that Adam is the one who is full of it? He's going on a trip with a group of people, including LuAnn's niece? Sounds like the niece felt like there was a chance they'd get back together and was surprised to hear about Carole being in the picture. He was probably sending her mixed signals. For Carole to say she "doesn't care" if Lu's niece's feelings are hurt sounded a bit callous to me. It's not about doing anything wrong, Carole, it's about the fact that the niece knew you personally and had confided in you how much that ex meant to her, and you went after him anyway. I don't know. The whole way she went about dating him was super slimy to me. She can date young guys, but when friends are involved in a dating situation you should tread lightly and have the respect to give your friends a heads up. Lu shouldn't have had to hear about the situation from her niece. Ugh. She's grating on me this season too.

Loved Bethenny in Sonja's showroom. Her abrasive nature in social situations certainly fits well in the boardroom doesn't it?

Dorinda. I ADORE Dorinda. Her daughter sucks, but she is delightful to watch. John, on the other hand, is disgusting and she should really just leave him. That relationship is headed for disaster.

[film noire]

Twitter followers who are also all about age-shaming Carole for being 50-something and dating a 30 year old man.

 

 

I think part of the reason Carole is getting snotted at re: the age difference is also her unwillingness to *own* the age difference (which is part of why she's hard to watch in sexual action to me -- she exhibits no self knowledge as to how she comes across). And if you insist on saying things about a young woman's feelings not mattering to you (when you are clearly old enough to show more depth and maturity) because "When boys and girls meet things happen"  (when you were last a girl almost half a decade before your lover was even born) -- and saying all this shit while seemingly unaware that calling him a "boy" sounds borderline predatory and creepy, not fun and girlish (as it might, if she were nineteen)  --  then she shouldn't be surprised people are calling her on her own unresolved shit.  

 

She's not owning her real life situation by saying something like "I'm an older woman, we're having fun, I'm so sorry Lu's niece is upset -- it must seem weird that she talked to me about him, and I then turn up in her ex's bed -- but no harm was meant, and I'd be more than happy to listen to her so she can feel completely heard."   Instead, we have to watch this off-putting, Mrs Roper-like behavior (can a caftan be far behind?) like she's such a hell-on-wheels sex pot the young un's just can't resist her -- when instead, it comes across as being so starved for sex she's about to dry hump a mailbox, and so hungry to once again be twenty and someone's "girlfriend" , she'll erase her own history to try and play that part,  turning into a sad sack stereotype in the process. Aging wannabe Lotharios --  in heels or men's brogues -- are equally distasteful, imo and for me, that's what Carole is sweating out of every panicked pore on camera right now. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by film noire

[KFC]

You skipped over the part about Carole and Lu in the recap. I'm enjoying the Twitter drama in large part because it's so ridiculous to see 2 grown women airing their dirty laundry on a social media site. Is anyone else thinking that Adam is the one who is full of it?

 

That's why I find the whole feud puzzling. The one constant I've gotten from both Luann and Carole is that they are pretty stalwart in their friendships on the show, and unlike some of the other wives, they don't really use social media to tell their story. If anything, I'd say prior to this, they're among the two who keep a pretty heavy veil over what their real lives are like off-camera. So to see this whole thing taking place over Twitter is a surprise.

 

A few pages back some people speculated that it's all one big ruse (be it Luann trying to retroactively create a storyline or the Oliver Stone version that Lu and Carole are in it together with Adam along for the free publicity), and while I don't know if it's a conspiracy or real, it's certainly fun to speculate. These are the kinds of feuds I find entertaining in the HW 'verse. The stakes are pretty low (with all due respect to Nicole, assuming it's real), no one's life is in danger, and I don't really feel strongly in favor of either camp. But there's enough layers to peel back, that I'm still guessing what the story is.

[Portae]

Indeed, and it comes down to intent. LuAnn visited Naeem specifically to borrow a dress, and to leverage her connection to Carole. Carole did not intentionally set out to use LuAnn's home as a cruising ground. She showed up for a party, the attraction between her and Adam happened organically and Carole wasn't looking to get something tangible from associating with LuAnn

 

To be fair, Carole introduced Luann at Naeem's wife, Ranjana. Luann went over to look at her jewelry designs, and Naeem was there. According to Luann, the three of them had a good time together and the subject of borrowing a dress came up organically out of their conversation. Is it possible that Luann went over there with an agenda? Sure. But then it's just as possible that Carole knew about/had met Adam before and sought out an invitation to Luann's place to get her flirt on.

I will be the first to say that I completely understood Carole's feelings about Luann possibly "using" Naeem and Ranjana, Carole's close friends, just to get something out of them. But that's precisely why I can't understand why Carole doesn't understand why Luann might be equally sensitive about, and protective of, the people in her close circle.

[Trooper York]

So what you are basically saying is that Carole is a skinny female version of John?

Sounds about right.

[Rhetorica]

Yes -- her reaction was quite odd. It's almost as if Kristin doesn't understand that grinding one's pudenda into a man's buttocks, then flipping around and vigorously rubbing one's ass cheeks into his crotch -- while giggling, tossing hair and doing arm circles as if riding the Fucktown Rodeo Express -- is likely to cause a man to think you're actually enjoying the process, rather than clearly cringing at the intimate nature of it all. It doesn't erase her right to retreat or feel shocked, but it might be wise for Kristin to examine her friggin' dance moves. (She should ask Carole about this. No doubt Carole got lost in a junk-grinding daydream of her own, while listening to Lu's niece confide secrets about her then-lover -- that daydream happily thought-bubbled,"THAT BOY IS FER ME! WHEN BOYS AND MIDDLE AGED WOMEN MEET, FUCKING ALWAYS HAPPENS!!" -- all so unappetizing. Is there not a single middle-aged woman on this show who can handle being sexy, older and in play, without coming off as a desperate escapee from a Tennessee Williams play?)

OK, I had to look up pundenda. Why. in. the. hell. would the Latin, to be ashamed of, become the euphemism for female genetalilia? So I guess male genetalilia are called, elatus, or erectus, or superbus? Women just can not win this race...

[ZoloftBlob]

And if you insist on saying things about a young woman's feelings not mattering to you (when you are clearly old enough to show more depth and maturity) because "When boys and girls meet things happen"  (when you were last a girl almost half a decade before your lover was even born) -- and saying all this shit while seemingly unaware that calling him a "boy" sounds borderline predatory and creepy, not fun and girlish (as it might, if she were nineteen)  --  then she shouldn't be surprised people are calling her on her own unresolved shit.

 

Yeah, the "boy" and "girl" referencing make me really more skeeved out that I normally would be - I know several *married* couples with similar age differences so if she wants a young guy whatever. But its all so weird when she's calling herself a girl.

 

Also I personally have a hard time taking Carol seriously in her little twitter war with Luann because a) she's in a twitter war b)she's in a twitter war over a guy she's clearly just in it for the sex itch getting scratched and c) she likes the attention she's getting over being the "girl" on the show who is able to score the hunky personal chef. I don't know if this is age shaming (it may be, I'll own it) but really Carol, he's not into you because you somehow look twenty, you have more money and fame and he's cashing in.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Loved Bethenny in Sonja's showroom. Her abrasive nature in social situations certainly fits well in the boardroom doesn't it?

 

 

I'm still chuckling over "toast was never toasted".  I mean, shit, nobody else on the show can come up with a great line like that.  Heather is just bossy & abrasive.  B is abrasive, but at least she comes up with these great one-liners.  I'm gettin' very, very tired of Heather & her "mamas" & her fakety-fake "concern".

[Duke2801]

John always looks to be in the throes of a heart attack. Not because of his height or weight but his coloring.  He looks deeply red and blotchy verging on a shade of purple like his oxygen supply has been cut off or something. Maybe he just has rosacea or maybe I just need to adjust my color settings on my tv. {Kayne shrug}

 

 

Agreed.  But I think it's his coloring and his weight.  He looks to be one plate of fettuccine alfredo away from a dirt nap. 

 

That being said, I agree with those who are of the school of thought that yes, he was probably being more "hand-sy" than was necessary in that last scene at the bar. BUT the ladies were grinding up on him first.  Kristin grinding him from behind then shrieking and running away when he turned around and grabbed her was ridiculous. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Duke2801

[ScoobieDoobs]

I don't agree that Kristen's husband should have stopped anything - it seemed like it was all in 'fun' and Kristen wasn't in any danger.

 

 

No, maybe not in any danger, but let's set this picture up, shall we? Josh is maybe in a corner somewhere, maybe drinking like a fish, and there's his wife with some clearly drunk slimy fat slob grinding his crotch into his wife's ass, and with his hands on his wife's hips.  And she does absolutely nothing to stop him.  Is this a typical fun night for Joshie poo & Kristen?  OK then, volumes spoken about those 2.  She's OK with random men feeling her up & Joshie poo is OK with it too.  Nice couple.  Well, this is all pretty nauseating to me, but hey, how they are to each other, & what their marriage is really about, is their business.  Er, so why these 2 are on the show again, Satan Andy?

Edited May 6, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Ellee]

 

You know you've watched too much HWs when you recognize LuLu's earings and that they were part of that chandelier.  Remember the chandelier I'm talking about?  IIRC LuLu was able to make a season's worth of jewelry out of it. 

 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Ellee

[trimthatfat]

No, maybe not in any danger, but let's set this picture up, shall we? Josh is maybe in a corner somewhere, maybe drinking like a fish, and there's his wife with some clearly drunk slimy fat slob grinding his crotch into his wife's ass, and with his hands on his wife's hips.  And she does absolutely nothing to stop him.  Is this a typical fun night for Joshie poo & Kristen?  OK then, volumes spoken about those 2.  She's OK with random men feeling her up & Joshie poo is OK with it too.  Nice couple.  Well, this is all pretty nauseating to me, but hey, how they are to each other, & what their marriage is really about, is their business.  Er, so why these 2 are on the show again, Satan Andy?

I guess I don't see it the way you do. I didn't see it as a woman being okay with a random man feeling her up. I really thought they were just playing around and Josh likely didn't any reason to be alarmed since his wife was initially laughing about the whole situation as was Sonja. That's not to say he wouldn't stand up for his wife if there was a legitimate reason to do so. But I think Kristen was fine and didn't need defense.

[Trooper York]

They were all drunk and drunk people do stupid things. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

But I think Kristen was fine and didn't need defense.

 

 

And you could be right.  Maybe this seemed harmless enough at the time.  Carole said they were all drunk.  I bet the edit monkeys saw something they could use & Kristen backtracked in her TH.  And if that is what she did, it makes me like her even less than I have been.  Well, I actually have not thought anything at all about Kristen lately. . Nothin' much to think about really

[janie2002]

Is 160,000 sq. ft. really better than 160 sq. ft, I see it as plenty of room to house lots of unsold poorly constructed merchandise that will sit untouched when Barney's says "no thank you" to that clothing line.  Sonja should take a page out of Martha Stewarts book and head to a Kmart type of chain to make some money. 

Bethany makes sense when she speaks about business strategies, why invite her if you don't want to listen to her? 

Does the "J" in Sonja stand for junk? 

Dorinda and John, hmmm.  What is in it for him, she seems like she would be an exhausting harpy 24/7.

 

Love the Lu Style! 

 

I agree that going for a target/walmart market would be a better hit since I do not see Bloomingdales or Bergdorf touching that. I think living the lux life on a budget could go somewhere. However I dont think Sonja has the vision, or work ethic to make it work.

[QuinnM]

Sonja's team meeting gave me the best line of the night, 'I forgot that I had taken a hit of acid before I came over so now this makes more sense.'   hahaha  Really what was it with that room full of people?  There was no water or coffee of snacks.  So the SkinnyGirl sparkling Water was a master stroke by someone that works her damn brand.  And then the guests leave and the team breaks out the champs?  I'm confused, so confused.  I need to figure out where to buy some acid so I can watch it again.

[WireWrap]

  I watched this ep again & Kristen did, in fact, encourage & never stop John from grinding his crotch on her ass, while putting his hands on her hips, as others here noted.  I cringed watching that scene.  Who the hell does that to a married woman -- while her husband is a few feet away?  And why did Josh the Dickhead NOT stop that?  Sheesh, what a useless fuckin' tool.

It was all in good fun for/with Kristen until John turned around grinding on her with most likely a bit extra "poking out" shall we say. IMO, he got a stiffy from all that and Kristen was not ready for that! LOL

[LilaFowler]

Almonds, as in more than one?  Only if you're trying to enter the plus-sized market.

 

I don't feel like I've seen Carole be nasty yet.  There's no yelling, no pointing, and the only thing thrown is shade. 

Carole saves her nastiness for her talking heads.  She's made a few bitchy remarks there.  I don't think she enjoys confrontation--the last time she really went after someone, she ended up putting her hands on that person (Aviva). 

[islandgal140]

At 50 odd years old, I think Carol is in danger (or maybe she already does) qualify for the "Cool Girl" speech from Gone Girl.

 

 

 

“Men always say that as the defining compliment, don’t they? She’s a cool girl. Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and anal sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she’s hosting the world’s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shit on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl.   Men actually think this girl exists. Maybe they’re fooled because so many women are willing to pretend to be this girl. For a long time Cool Girl offended me. I used to see men – friends, coworkers, strangers – giddy over these awful pretender women, and I’d want to sit these men down and calmly say: You are not dating a woman, you are dating a woman who has watched too many movies written by socially awkward men who’d like to believe that this kind of woman exists and might kiss them. I’d want to grab the poor guy by his lapels or messenger bag and say: The bitch doesn’t really love chili dogs that much – no one loves chili dogs that much! And the Cool Girls are even more pathetic: They’re not even pretending to be the woman they want to be, they’re pretending to be the woman a man wants them to be. Oh, and if you’re not a Cool Girl, I beg you not to believe that your man doesn’t want the Cool Girl. It may be a slightly different version – maybe he’s a vegetarian, so Cool Girl loves seitan and is great with dogs; or maybe he’s a hipster artist, so Cool Girl is a tattooed, bespectacled nerd who loves comics. There are variations to the window dressing, but believe me, he wants Cool Girl, who is basically the girl who likes every fucking thing he likes and doesn’t ever complain. (How do you know you’re not Cool Girl? Because he says things like: “I like strong women.” If he says that to you, he will at some point fuck someone else. Because “I like strong women” is code for “I hate strong women.”)”

Edited May 6, 2015 by islandgal140

[motorcitymom65]

To be fair, Carole introduced Luann at Naeem's wife, Ranjana. Luann went over to look at her jewelry designs, and Naeem was there. According to Luann, the three of them had a good time together and the subject of borrowing a dress came up organically out of their conversation. Is it possible that Luann went over there with an agenda? Sure. But then it's just as possible that Carole knew about/had met Adam before and sought out an invitation to Luann's place to get her flirt on.

I will be the first to say that I completely understood Carole's feelings about Luann possibly "using" Naeem and Ranjana, Carole's close friends, just to get something out of them. But that's precisely why I can't understand why Carole doesn't understand why Luann might be equally sensitive about, and protective of, the people in her close circle.

I don't see how the two things are even similar. At all. Carole and Lu had zero relationship back then. They had only met each other socially a couple of times. Neither one of them cared about the other. When Ranjana was telling Carole the story, she acted uncomfortable about Lu asking to borrow the clothes. Yes, she was gracious (I just love that woman), but she made it clear that it was all a bit out of the ordinary for her. Carole felt like Lu was just using their very casual relationship to get something for nothing. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, Carole and Lu do have a very real friendship at this point in the show. Carole wasn't wondering over to Lu's house to take anything for herself or to use Lu in any form. On the other hand, if Adam ends up complaining to Lu the way that Ranjana did to Carole, I will admit to seeing some similarities. As it stands, it's apples and spaceships.

[Rhetorica]

And you could be right. Maybe this seemed harmless enough at the time. Carole said they were all drunk. I bet the edit monkeys saw something they could use & Kristen backtracked in her TH. And if that is what she did, it makes me like her even less than I have been. Well, I actually have not thought anything at all about Kristen lately. . Nothin' much to think about really

IMHO, a husband (or wife, for that matter) only interferes with his wife's actions when she asks for his help, or is so incapacitated that she's making poor decisions. Neither apply to Kristen. She was having fun until her talking head. The same behavior she displayed with Aviva's dad. Me thinks she doth protest too much...

[trimthatfat]

Just checked out Kristen's fashion blog. If anyone is interested, she IDs the pieces she wears during her THs. I was coveting a brooch she wore last night, but it's probably way too rich for my blood. Her outfit pictures are eh. I think Kristen was going for a Brooklyn Blonde or Atlantic Pacific (fashion bloggers) feel with her blog, but it falls short, IMO.