S07.E05: Mind Your Own Business

[WireWrap]

What's funny is that it's Bethenny who should have been involved with the toaster oven (Beth is good at branding and product placement) and Heather who should have seen the clothing line.

 

I wasn't totally paying attention but my head was spinning by the end of Sonja's meeting.  What was there besides a (very nice) logo and some drawings on the wall?  Sonja's "team" who were all smiling and assurances.  The more they nodded and smiled, the more the feeling that Sonja is being taken to the cleaners (apologies John) came over me.

Well, I guess that Sonja is just the name for the logo, it is not her money/investment according to Bethenny's blog tonight. Maybe Sonja should have consulted LuAnn, not Bethenny or Heather! LOL

[ryebread]

Except that even Bethenny said that Heather was the one Sonja needed to seek advice from, not her.

 

I don't think Bethenny understands, though, that Heather wants to see Sonja fail.  If Bethenny fully realized this, she'd know that, A.) Sonja should never seek advice from Heather again and B.) Heather isn't about to give any anyway.

 

Speaking of the Heather/Sonja conglomeration, who was responsible for that toaster oven box with the slope shouldered male model on the front?  If it was Heather's idea, that shows ya she was looking to sabotage even back then.  Why would either one of them think that was a good idea?  Crappy marketing.

[LotusFlower]

I don't think Bethenny understands, though, that Heather wants to see Sonja fail.  If Bethenny fully realized this, she'd know that, A.) Sonja should never seek advice from Heather again and B.) Heather isn't about to give any anyway.

 

Speaking of the Heather/Sonja conglomeration, who was responsible for that toaster oven box with the slope shouldered male model on the front?  If it was Heather's idea, that shows ya she was looking to sabotage even back then.  Why would either one of them think that was a good idea?  Crappy marketing.

I thought it was a great marketing idea, which Heather and a team of professional designers and marketers did for free. But Sonja never got a toaster into the box, so we'll never know.

[lunastartron]

It's not assault when you're actively grinding your derriere into a man's junk, which it appeared Kristen was doing for thirty seconds or so while guffawing before she decided to feign shock. Sonja actually had to make even more of an effort since she was rubbing against him from behind him. Josh was there, hidden from the camera by Dorinda's boyfriend, laughing on a bar perch as heartily as his wife . . . Heather is free to talk as liberally as she wants to about anyone behind their backs, but when she does so, it pretty much undermines the narrative that she wants to peddle about being surprised/disappointed that Sonja didn't solicit her expertise and wanting only "the best" for Sonja. I mean, Aviva's antics were likewise part and parcel of trying to keep her apple; doesn't mean they weren't noteworthy in the literal sense of the term . . . And, speaking of Aviva, part of what annoys me about Heather is that, last year, she and Carole had decided that Aviva's conduct in St. Barth's and remarks about Sonja's alcoholism and messiness were just so unforgivable. Even though, you know, they didn't object to them in the moment and Sonja had already elected to forgive Veevs. Fast forward to this season and the end of the most recent one, and Heather's basically leading the charge on vocally criticizing Sonja's instability.

[WireWrap]

I don't think Bethenny understands, though, that Heather wants to see Sonja fail.  If Bethenny fully realized this, she'd know that, A.) Sonja should never seek advice from Heather again and B.) Heather isn't about to give any anyway.

 

Speaking of the Heather/Sonja conglomeration, who was responsible for that toaster oven box with the slope shouldered male model on the front?  If it was Heather's idea, that shows ya she was looking to sabotage even back then.  Why would either one of them think that was a good idea?  Crappy marketing.

I disagree, I do not believe Heather wants Sonja to fail and IMO, that is a ridiculous idea (no offense intended) that Sonja wants viewers to believe because she knows she failed, not Heather.

 

They made several box's for Sonja to pick from and Sonja choose that 1, BTW, she did so against Heathers advice. LOL

It's not assault when you're actively grinding your derriere into a man's junk, which it appeared Kristen was doing for thirty seconds or so while guffawing before she decided to feign shock. Sonja actually had to make even more of an effort since she was rubbing against him from behind him. Josh was there, hidden from the camera by Dorinda's boyfriend, laughing on a bar perch as heartily as his wife . . . Heather is free to talk as liberally as she wants to about anyone behind their backs, but when she does so, it pretty much undermines the narrative that she wants to peddle about being surprised/disappointed that Sonja didn't solicit her expertise and wanting only "the best" for Sonja. I mean, Aviva's antics were likewise part and parcel of trying to keep her apple; doesn't mean they weren't noteworthy in the literal sense of the term . . . And, speaking of Aviva, part of what annoys me about Heather is that, last year, she and Carole had decided that Aviva's conduct in St. Barth's and remarks about Sonja's alcoholism and messiness were just so unforgivable. Even though, you know, they didn't object to them in the moment and Sonja had already elected to forgive Veevs. Fast forward to this season and the end of the most recent one, and Heather's basically leading the charge on vocally criticizing Sonja's instability.

Both Carole and Heather were fine with Aviva until "ghostwritergate" happened, it had nothing to do with "whitetrashgate" from the prior season. LOL

[ScoobieDoobs]

Wait, what the what -- Carole just said on WWHL, Lu hired someone to write all the mean shit she's been saying on Twitter.  She said to Satan Andy, "C'mon, since when has Luann said anything clever ever on the show."  Yikers!  Satan Andy paused & looked confused & sorta disagreed, but not very convincingly.  Oh man.

[LilaFowler]

I'm liking Carole less and less with every passing episode, and every time I see her in another environment (like WWHL).

[Pop Tart]

My shallow observation for the night - I think I've decided that it's Hannah's dark red lipstick that I find off-putting rather then her eyebrows. Or it's the combination of the two. She has two dramatic things about her look and it's too much. Kind of like a statement necklace with a dress that's bold in its own right. Like this: 

 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Pop Tart

[archer1267]

I'm really glad that people are reacting to Kristen's indignation over John the same way I did...but I so didn't want to come across as one of those "she was asking for it" slut-shamers. I think she was drunk off her ass and was trying to save face in her TH.

 

I'm convinced that Derrick (sp?) is an actor being paid by Bravo. I can't imagine anyone willingly hanging out with Sonja and acting as her escort unless they were getting something in return. Gone are the days when she appeared to be a benefactor to her artist boyfriend. Before Sonja's bankruptcy, she was fun, personable, and sensible, and I could see her being effective in connecting people. Now...well...unless she's telling Derrick about how she's going to take him to San Tropez and introduce him to all these fabulous people who are going to help him in his career, I just don't see it. Broke Sonja isn't charming, but drunk and babbling. I cracked up at her "I support LBGT!" non-sequitur.

 

I think Ramona had said "I need something deeper than that," but I could be wrong. I don't think she meant for it to come out as dismissive as it did.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Speaking of the Heather/Sonja conglomeration, who was responsible for that toaster oven box with the slope shouldered male model on the front?  If it was Heather's idea, that shows ya she was looking to sabotage even back then.  Why would either one of them think that was a good idea?  Crappy marketing.

 

No, I don't agree.  Actually, a similar campaign was done before with great success.  A good friend of mine worked on that campaign for Samsung around 2000 or so.  Arnell was the ad agency working on it & it was extremely successful for Samsung.  This campaign got a lot of attention from consumers & a ton of media coverage & resulted in an enormous across-the-board increase in sales for Samsung products in general, not just this one product (microwave ovens, in this case).  And Arnell got a ton of high-profile clients after this campaign.  So I'd say it was hugely successful for all involved.

 

Now. would it have worked for Sonja?  Who cares?  Sonja is just full of crap & any discussion of her & business is a waste of time cuz it just doesn't exist.  

 

I don't get the impression at all that Heather wants Sonja to fail.  That would be petty.  And I don't think that's who Heather is at all.  She's a smart businesswoman & doesn't have the patience for bullshit & nonsense.  And this sums up Sonja.  Look, Bethenny is the same way.  Notice how B high-tailed it outta that meeting once she saw those con artists were giving her cagey bullshit answers to her valid questions.  She knew it was just a bunch of bullshit & didn't wanna waste any more of her time with it.  Exactly like Heather.  I don't think any of this is mean.  Just sensible.  I don't wanna waste my time with bullshit & nonsense either.

Edited May 6, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[ryebread]

I disagree, I do not believe Heather wants Sonja to fail and IMO, that is a ridiculous idea (no offense intended) that Sonja wants viewers to believe because she knows she failed, not Heather.

 

Sonja didn't take any of Heather's business advice.  If she had succeeded without taking Heather's advice, I don't see Heather being the type of person to say, "Ya did good, Sonja!  I'm glad you did it your way."  

 

Sure Sonja failed all on her own.  But imo, Heather's happy with that failure and is anxiously anticipating the next one.  Do you really believe Heather'd be thrilled for Sonja if her imaginary clothing line really took off?  Especially when we see how out of joint Heather's nose is just because she wasn't invited to the marketing meeting?

[ScoobieDoobs]

OK, another ep in & yet another ep I'm asking -- er, why is Kristen there?

[lunastartron]

I don't want to get off topic, but Carole and Heather definitely had a scene or two (I believe on a rooftop, perhaps?) at the beginning of last season where they discussed how out of line Aviva was during "whitetrashgate" and they thus couldn't be friends with her. This was intercut with Carole's talking heads on the matter. I remember distinctly because it made no sense as Sonja had already publicly made amends with Aviva and they themselves had no problem with Aviva's outburst when it happened. I can't recall precisely when this occurred, but I believe it may have been immediately after "Bookgate" had been ostensibly resolved; in any case, it was really retcon-reliant and totally confounding in context . . . My impression is that Heather has plenty of time for bullshit and nonsense since she's tried to indulge in both in consecutive episodes. I would say she might not be so freewheeling with either offscreen, but I don't know after reading the Spanx lawsuit summaries (did she really try to start a #shameonyouspanx Twitter campaign?).

[WireWrap]

Sonja didn't take any of Heather's business advice.  If she had succeeded without taking Heather's advice, I don't see Heather being the type of person to say, "Ya did good, Sonja!  I'm glad you did it your way."  

 

Sure Sonja failed all on her own.  But imo, Heather's happy with that failure and is anxiously anticipating the next one.  Do you really believe Heather'd be thrilled for Sonja if her imaginary clothing line really took off?  Especially when we see how out of joint Heather's nose is just because she wasn't invited to the marketing meeting?

Yes, I do believe that Heather would be happy for Sonja. All Heather and the rest of the women including Ramona, have said is that Sonja needs to focus on 1 thing and follow it through to completion. Hell, even Bethenny said that in her TH tonight. Sonja has all these irons near the fire but none of them are actually in the fire. Good Grief, this is how many seasons we have been hearing about some plan/product of Sonja's with none of them coming to fruition, not 1. Not her "Sonja in the City" party planning, not her home goods line, her toaster oven, her clothes, her jewelry,....nothing! It has got to be exhausting let alone frustrating for her fellow cast members to play along with. Sonja asks for Heather's help/advice, free of charge of course, ignores it, then blames Heather when Heather gets frustrated because Sonja was only blowing smoke up her ass and not being honest in the first place. IMO, there was never an "investor" for that stupid toaster oven, Sonja lied to give herself a business storyline like the other HWs and is terrified that the others know that, especially Heather.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Sure Sonja failed all on her own.  But imo, Heather's happy with that failure and is anxiously anticipating the next one.  Do you really believe Heather'd be thrilled for Sonja if her imaginary clothing line really took off?  Especially when we see how out of joint Heather's nose is just because she wasn't invited to the marketing meeting?

 

 

I get your point, but I still don't think Heather would be happy about Sonja failing.  But I do think Heather is the type of gal who always thinks she's right & would be very, very, very hard-pressed to ever admit being wrong.  I can see Heather being deliriously happy about being right about Sonja's bullshit & delusions.  And that is pretty snotty, btw.

 

Hey, can anyone tell if Hannah is actually pencilling in those brows & emphasizing them on her own to such a crazy degree?  Hannah can easily change herself into a great-looking girl with just a different lipstick color & some slight brow altering.  But then she'd still be stuck with that snotty personality.  Different ep, same annoying personality.

[ryebread]

No, I don't agree.  Actually, a similar campaign was done before with great success.  A good friend of mine worked on that campaign for Samsung around 2000 or so.  Arnell was the ad agency working on it & it was extremely successful for Samsung.  This campaign got a lot of attention from consumers & a ton of media coverage & resulted in an enormous across-the-board increase in sales for Samsung products in general, not just this one product (microwave ovens, in this case).  And Arnell got a ton of high-profile clients after this campaign.  So I'd say it was hugely successful for all involved.

 

I don't remember that at all.  A ton of media coverage, enormous sales increases for all Samsung products because they did a similar campaign for a microwave?  Do you mean to say they had a semi-nude male on the box and in the ads?   I don't remember that at all.   Sonja's packaging idea was just weird to me because naked guy on a toaster oven box does not compute. What's so brilliant about it?  Just by putting the shirtless guy on the box takes out a good portion of the people who might buy the product, ie. hetero males.

 

And we'll totally have to disagree about Heather being petty.  Imo, she proved it again tonight by butting in from across the room with her petty shade at Sonja.  But it's still early in the season.  There's lots more from where that came from. 

[WireWrap]

I don't want to get off topic, but Carole and Heather definitely had a scene or two (I believe on a rooftop, perhaps?) at the beginning of last season where they discussed how out of line Aviva was during "whitetrashgate" and they thus couldn't be friends with her. This was intercut with Carole's talking heads on the matter. I remember distinctly because it made no sense as Sonja had already publicly made amends with Aviva and they themselves had no problem with Aviva's outburst when it happened. I can't recall precisely when this occurred, but I believe it may have been immediately after "Bookgate" had been ostensibly resolved; in any case, it was really retcon-reliant and totally confounding in context . . . My impression is that Heather has plenty of time for bullshit and nonsense since she's tried to indulge in both in consecutive episodes. I would say she might not be so freewheeling with either offscreen, but I don't know after reading the Spanx lawsuit summaries (did she really try to start a #shameonyouspanx Twitter campaign?).

Sonja may have accepted the faux apology but Ramona had not and Aviva never apologized to Carole for the GW comment/lie. They all "gossip" about each other, it is the nature of the show and they are to bring it each time as well. They all do it. LOL

 

As for Spanx, Heather was right, they stole her idea/design.

[LotusFlower]

Wait, what the what -- Carole just said on WWHL, Lu hired someone to write all the mean shit she's been saying on Twitter.  She said to Satan Andy, "C'mon, since when has Luann said anything clever ever on the show."  Yikers!  Satan Andy paused & looked confused & sorta disagreed, but not very convincingly.  Oh man.

I had no idea this feud was going on. LuAnn has gone completely vicious, and Carole is no wallflower on Twitter- she bites back. According to Carole, the time period between meeting Adam and telling LuAnn about it was eight days. And as we saw in tonight's episode, LuAnn was ok about it. So why has it gotten so nasty? My guess is the niece is not over the guy, or just doesn't like seeing him date someone else, esp. so publicly. Which I can understand, but why make Carole the villian? She didn't "steal" him. And as for their age difference, LuAnn is really looking bad on this one by attacking Carole being "of a certain age." Wasn't Jacque considerably younger than her? And doesn't she date a lot of guys, of all ages? Do I really have to bring up the pirate?

[ScoobieDoobs]

I don't remember that at all.  A ton of media coverage, enormous sales increases for all Samsung products because they did a similar campaign for a microwave?  Do you mean to say they had a semi-nude male on the box and in the ads?   I don't remember that at all.

 

OK, but it absolutely did exist & my friend went on to start his own hugely successful ad agency solely because of the enormous success of that campaign.  Peter Arnell also claimed it as one of his biggest successes.  And Sonja even mentioned she wasn't so impressed with her campaign cuz it had been done before.  Here it is-

 

http://jhchoistudio.com/arnell_group/work_details.html?view=expertise&type=advertising&id=138

 

The idea of this campaign may seem ho-hum & done-to-death now, but back in 1999 or so (it may have even been a few years earlier), it was fresh -- believe it or not.  Does it make a difference anyway?  I loved that Bethenny kept saying "toast was never toasted".  Hate to say it, but I really liked B in this ep.

Edited May 6, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[ryebread]

Yes, I do believe that Heather would be happy for Sonja. All Heather and the rest of the women including Ramona, have said is that Sonja needs to focus on 1 thing and follow it through to completion. Hell, even Bethenny said that in her TH tonight. Sonja has all these irons near the fire but none of them are actually in the fire. Good Grief, this is how many seasons we have been hearing about some plan/product of Sonja's with none of them coming to fruition, not 1. Not her "Sonja in the City" party planning, not her home goods line, her toaster oven, her clothes, her jewelry,....nothing! It has got to be exhausting let alone frustrating for her fellow cast members to play along with. Sonja asks for Heather's help/advice, free of charge of course, ignores it, then blames Heather when Heather gets frustrated because Sonja was only blowing smoke up her ass and not being honest in the first place. IMO, there was never an "investor" for that stupid toaster oven, Sonja lied to give herself a business storyline like the other HWs and is terrified that the others know that, especially Heather.

 

I know, and agree with all that. ^^  Except for the part about Heather being happy for Sonja's future success. (big assumption that there will actually BE one.) At this point in their relationship, I just don't see it.   Sonja did her wrong and tried to discredit Heather's business sense.  Heather isn't the type to forget that.  Look how she went after Aviva for doing it to Carole.

[WireWrap]

I had no idea this feud was going on. LuAnn has gone completely vicious, and Carole is no wallflower on Twitter- she bites back. According to Carole, the time period between meeting Adam and telling LuAnn about it was eight days. And as we saw in tonight's episode, LuAnn was ok about it. So why has it gotten so nasty? My guess is the niece is not over the guy, or just doesn't like seeing him date someone else, esp. so publicly. Which I can understand, but why make Carole the villian? She didn't "steal" him. And as for their age difference, LuAnn is really looking bad on this one by attacking Carole being "of a certain age." Wasn't Jacque considerably younger than her? And doesn't she date a lot of guys, of all ages? Do I really have to bring up the pirate?

In her blog tonight, LuAnn says that Adam and her niece had plans to go on a trip together during the time he was seeing/sleeping with Carole and that is why she was mad. She does not say that Carole knew about the planned trip before she got with Adam though and seems to blames Carole, not Adam the guy who did this knowing there was a trip planned. IMO, she is placing blame on the wrong person. At that "singles" party last week, wasn't LuAnn's hookup as young as Sonja's was? It seems to be ok to "hookup" with a boy toy but not to actually have/develop a relationship with them according to LuAnn's way of thinking/acting!

[ryebread]

Here it is-

 

http://jhchoistudio.com/arnell_group/work_details.html?view=expertise&type=advertising&id=138

OMG, Scoobie!  Sonja totally ripped off that idea. Thanks for posting that.  I really don't remember seeing any of those but I'll take your word for it that they were successful.  Granted, I don't pay much attention to the ads, but how did the people working on Sonja's packaging, not know that her idea was a rip off of a successful ad campaign?  They were ripping off the rip off!

[LotusFlower]

Just by putting the shirtless guy on the box takes out a good portion of the people who might buy the product, ie. hetero males.

Well, I think you just proved Heather's marketing acumen, since hetero men are not exactly the target audience for toaster ovens.

The idea of this campaign may seem ho-hum & done-to-death now, but back in 1999 or so, it was fresh -- believe it or not.  Does it make a difference anyway?  I loved that Bethenny kept saying toast was never toasted.  Hate to say it, but I really liked B in this ep.

Yes, it was a good line. And she knew it, because she kept saying it (rightly so). This was Bethenny's first exposure to Sonja's brand of business crazy, and she immediately spotted the delusions, the con men, and the lack of focus. Multiply that by three or four or five seasons, and you see where the other HW's are coming from.

[ryebread]

In her blog tonight, LuAnn says that Adam and her niece had plans to go on a trip together during the time he was seeing/sleeping with Carole and that is why she was mad.

 

I just don't understand why she's mad now.  When it appears that she's been fine with Carole for months.

[WireWrap]

I know, and agree with all that. ^^  Except for the part about Heather being happy for Sonja's future success. (big assumption that there will actually BE one.) At this point in their relationship, I just don't see it.   Sonja did her wrong and tried to discredit Heather's business sense.  Heather isn't the type to forget that.  Look how she went after Aviva for doing it to Carole.

See, Heather can always claim that something she told/taught Sonja helped her succeed, so YES, I do believe that Heather would be happy for Sonja. I do agree, Sonja will never get a product to market, she is incapable of doing more than dreaming IMO, she has the attention span of a gnat and believes everyone else should do the work for her.

As for Aviva, had she honestly apologized to Carole and admitted to lying about the GW, Heather would have moved on. That does not mean they would have been friends after that but she would have moved on none the less IMO.

[LotusFlower]

In her blog tonight, LuAnn says that Adam and her niece had plans to go on a trip together during the time he was seeing/sleeping with Carole and that is why she was mad. She does not say that Carole knew about the planned trip before she got with Adam though and seems to blames Carole, not Adam the guy who did this knowing there was a trip planned

Not sure if you saw WWHL, but here's the scoop according to Carole: Adam and the niece broke up over a year before she and Adam met, but the two have remained friends, and are both involved with a non-profit in Nicaragua. The planned trip was a group trip to this non-profit (a farm, I think) in Nicaragua. Not some special trip that the two of them planned together, and certainly not romantic, so the Countess is being deliberately misleading. I'm not sure why. What is her end game? She's making herself look ridiculous, IMO.

[WireWrap]

I just don't understand why she's mad now.  When it appears that she's been fine with Carole for months.

She needs to keep herself at the forefront of the HW's because Bethenny is back. We now have 2 very strong, intelligent, successful business women on the show, Bethenny and Heather. LuAnn can not compete with them, she can not go after Ramona because of the sympathy card the divorce gives her, Sonja is still to big of a mess and Kristen is not a real factor so that leaves Carole to fight with. Although many viewers like Carole, she is probably the safest person for LuAnn to come at because many still question her regarding Aviva/GW. IMO, LuAnn is banking on getting Aviva's fans in her corner by going after Carole via twitter now, after all, fans = job security in the realm of the HW's world! LOL

Not sure if you saw WWHL, but here's the scoop according to Carole: Adam and the niece broke up over a year before she and Adam met, but the two have remained friends, and are both involved with a non-profit in Nicaragua. The planned trip was a group trip to this non-profit (a farm, I think) in Nicaragua. Not some special trip that the two of them planned together, and certainly not romantic, so the Countess is being deliberately misleading. I'm not sure why. What is her end game? She's making herself look ridiculous, IMO.

IMO, she is looking to build her fan base and going after Carole is the easiest/fast way to do so. LOL

[laschifosavita]

Hey, can anyone tell if Hannah is actually pencilling in those brows & emphasizing them on her own to such a crazy degree?  Hannah can easily change herself into a great-looking girl with just a different lipstick color & some slight brow altering.  But then she'd still be stuck with that snotty personality.  Different ep, same annoying personality.

She naturally has dark eyebrows, but it looks like she's definitely filling them in.  I saw what looked like a natural faced Instragram picture, and her eyebrows are nice.  She really doesn't need to do anything to them.  They are already pretty square near her nose, but I think she uses fills them in unnecessarily to give them an unnatural and even more square shape.  I think she also sometimes tries to give them more of an arch.  Her natural eyebrow shape is already very trendy, so she's pretty much just drawing on the cartoon version of the eyebrows she already has.

[ryebread]

Dang, Lu and Carole are tearing it up on Twitter.

 

Carole just said:

Carole RadziwillVerified account
‏@CaroleRadziwill   Here's the real truth: I was Luann's niece's maid of honor at her first wedding. We met when I was her au pair. #shockingbackstory

 

Which niece? Nicole?

 

If I were Adam, I'd gently suggest to Carole to knock it off.  He's going to end up looking like a jerk, too. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

My impression is that Heather has plenty of time for bullshit and nonsense since she's tried to indulge in both in consecutive episodes. I would say she might not be so freewheeling with either offscreen, but I don't know after reading the Spanx lawsuit summaries (did she really try to start a #shameonyouspanx Twitter campaign?).

 

 

 

Yeah, Heather has been ramping that crap up for the show.  My impression is -- that's just for the show.  Keep in mind, we have seen NO scenes of Heather in her business, dealing with her employees & working a regular workday.  I would bet she's very careful in how she spends her time -- in her business.  And I suspect, as most successful business people are, she is totally intolerant of, & completely impatient with, bullshit & nonsense & wasting her time with it.  Hey, I'm in business too, as a corporate attorney, & honestly, I can relate to both Heather & Bethenny when they're dealing with business.  Me?  I couldn't be around Sonja's ridiculousness.

 

Now, are Sonja's delusions still entertaining?  Eh, I'm bored with 'em by now.  But I really loved B's reactions to 'em.  And if it means we're gonna get some big fake fashion show for a line that's never gonna happen?  OK, bring it, show -- I'm in.

[Celia Rubenstein]

That fashion meeting with Bethenny and Sonja's "team."  What the hell was that? The woman with the long brown hair who kept doing that slowwww blink was freakin' me out, dude!  Those people were mildly scary.  No wonder Bethenny slid the hell out of the room without getting more confrontational.  No point dying on that hill.  Sonja and her fashion line (and whatever money she has squandered on it) are a lost cause.  

 

What exactly was Sonja cracking champagne for at the end of the scene? What were they celebrating?  I can't imagine. 

 

And if it means we're gonna get some big fake fashion show for a line that's never gonna happen?  OK, bring it, show -- I'm in.

 

I think on these shows they refer to that as a "showing," aka "a fashion show with no fashions."  ®Dwight from Atlanta.  

 

How Dreadful.

 

[missy jo]

How many times did LuAnn and Harry do the do after she knew that he was Aviva's ex-husband, or after she knew that he and Sonja were dealing with each other?

 

 

That's a great point! I forgot about that.

 

Also, it doesn't seem like Carole waited all that long to tell LuAnn about it, so I'm still mystified as to what the big deal is.

[Rahul]

I agree with Bethenny - I have a feeling Sonja's going to get screwed.  And not in the way that she hopes.

 

That said, Sonja is good tv but I'm starting to feel like I'm watching her start to really unravel.

 

Sonja's been unraveling ever since her second season on this show. That thread was snagged long ago and now virtually all the fabric has been undone.

 

It's so weird that Sonja's boyfriend is practically a prop and just stands there, even when people are having conversations about him in front of him.

 

Clearly this guy Derek is an escort. As long as he's getting paid, I doubt he cares. Moreover, I get the feeling that his preferred flavor has more pendulous genitals.

 

I wasn't totally paying attention but my head was spinning by the end of Sonja's meeting.  What was there besides a (very nice) logo and some drawings on the wall?  Sonja's "team" who were all smiling and assurances.  The more they nodded and smiled, the more the feeling that Sonja is being taken to the cleaners (apologies John) came over me.

 

Can you call it being swindled if Sonja didn't pay for the design team, marketing people or business execs? I smell a Bravo set up. All I saw here some hastily drawn sketches and a room full of questionable characters. Bravo could have slapped that entire scenario together in a day.

 

So Ramona, Kristen and Sonja's date are talking, Kristen tells Ramona she should try dating a nice, young guy, too, and Ramona says: "No, not for me. I need someone deeper." TO HIS FACE! The guy was standing right there! What is this trait called? Don't say lack of filter or drunk, cuz she definitely has those covered, but it's something else.

 

Ramona lacks the ability to see things from someone else's perspective. That being said, I don't think she gave a fuck knowing that Sonja's arm candy was either a gigolo or social climber seeking a sugar momma.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Rahul

[Teddybear]

 

So Ramona, Kristen and Sonja's date are talking, Kristen tells Ramona she should try dating a nice, young guy, too, and Ramona says: "No, not for me. I need someone deeper." TO HIS FACE! The guy was standing right there! What is this trait called? Don't say lack of filter or drunk, cuz she definitely has those covered, but it's something else.

The same person who thought it was appropriate to drop down on the floor and do push-ups at a cocktail party.

 

I'm glad Heather's true colors are finally showing!  I haven't liked her since her first episode.  I don't understand why she's picking fights with everyone this season.  She seems really angry.  

 

Sonja's boytoy looks like Ryan from Million Dollar Listings.  

[izabella]

Did anyone else hear Sonja saying to someone at the party, "...and I have food products..." ?

 

I didn't catch who she was talking to, but it seems like she was treating them to her usual deluded litany of products she's branding that no one will ever see.  Too bad she wasn't at Bethenny's lunch to see all the SG products Beth has branded.

[WireWrap]

Did anyone notice the product placement of Bethenny's SG line on the table when she was talking to Sonja's "team"? It is 1 of her SG flavored water bottles, it was  facing the cameras the whole time! Talk about pushing products on the show, Bethenny did it in a scene set up for Sonja's products/clothing line! LOL

[ScoobieDoobs]

I was really glad to see Jonathan again.  Am I alone here in thinking he's totally sweet & adorable?  I still remember how vicious Moaner was about him.  She talked shit about him while saying how great Mario was.  Guess maybe you realize now, Moaner, being a slickster ain't the be all & end all?  Probably not.  Eh, we'll see, but I bet Moaner will end up chasing after slicksters just like Mario.  Anyhoo, Moaner looked soooo sad & lonely.  Her making such a big deal that Sonja didn't say hello to her seemed like an obvious & forced ploy for cam time.

 

Sonja's boytoy looks like Ryan from Million Dollar Listings.

 

 

I thought exactly the same thing.  What the hell was he doing there?  He looked completely confused.  Maybe he doesn't speak or understand English well.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Did anyone else hear Sonja saying to someone at the party, "...and I have food products..." ?

 

 

I heard that too.  I'm expecting her now to say she's making really, really senseless stuff -- like maybe postmenopausal tampons or diapers that leak or yachts that sink or please add in . . .

[jenny2682]

John is everything I hate. A fat ugly douchebag that probably was the biggest fucking tool in high school that never got any and then makes some money and becomes the lecherous asshole that checks you out from the corner and you turn around because you can FEEL him looking at you. Then licks his lips while leering at you. My God, I just can't. I can't imagine anyone letting him touch them, I can't imagine how brain dead or stoned one would have to be to have relations with him, I can't imagine the probably mixture of smell from sweat and no doubt crappy cologne. That John sandwich literally had bile rising up in my throat. Kristen is a married woman and you do not, I repeat do not do those cock tease moves when you are married and then get to act shocked. She brings nothing to this show and is a non entity. Poor Sonja has never realized that grinding and groping others like that is not sexy nor cute nor funny. She seems so zonked out of it all the time.

 

In conclusion, in Season 1 or 2 when Bethenney was talking about those guys who didn't get any when younger and then hit their 30s - 50s and become the meanest mofos and have tons of issues=John. Please, no more.

[LotusFlower]

I was really glad to see Jonathan again.  Am I alone here in thinking he's totally sweet & adorable?  I still remember how vicious Moaner was about him.  She talked shit about him while saying how great Mario was.

Yes. I also noticed that he said something like "we all have flaws." Or "we all have plusses and minuses" - or something like that. I forget what the context was, too, but I'm wondering if it was in reference to how Ramona put him down last year. If so, good for him.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I really did not like it when Carole said she knew Lu's niece, Nicole, was upset, but she didn't care. 

 

I am all for honesty and I believe Carole sincerely doesn't give a damn about Nicole, but still - you shouldn't say something like that because it makes you sound like an insensitive asshole.  Or reveals you to be an insensitive asshole, I should say.

 

I mean, Carole has got the guy, Nicole doesn't.  And Nicole is apparently hurt by this fact.  I don't expect Carole to break up with him to please Nicole but a little graciousness would go a long way.  Here's an idea: just say fucking nothing about Nicole, Carole.  Keep her name out of your mouth if all you can say regarding her is that you don't care she's upset. 

 

Of all the petty snipes Carole has made about the other housewives, I think this offhand, dismissive little comment from her bothers me the most.  It just slid out of her mouth unlike the forced, rehearsed quips she usually makes in her talking heads.  I think it says a lot about her, none of it good. 

[WireWrap]

I really did not like it when Carole said she knew Lu's niece, Nicole, was upset, but she didn't care. 

 

I am all for honesty and I believe Carole sincerely doesn't give a damn about Nicole, but still - you shouldn't say something like that because it makes you sound like an insensitive asshole.  Or reveals you to be an insensitive asshole, I should say.

 

I mean, Carole has got the guy, Nicole doesn't.  And Nicole is apparently hurt by this fact.  I don't expect Carole to break up with him to please Nicole but a little graciousness would go a long way.  Here's an idea: just say fucking nothing about Nicole, Carole.  Keep her name out of your mouth if all you can say regarding her is that you don't care she's upset. 

 

Of all the petty snipes Carole has made about the other housewives, I think this offhand, dismissive little comment from her bothers me the most.  It just slid out of her mouth unlike the forced, rehearsed quips she usually makes in her talking heads.  I think it says a lot about her, none of it good. 

It was not the kindest thing she could or should have said, true but they, Adam/Nicole, stopped seeing each other a year before this was filmed and I think she was saying that she is not sorry for dating him, not that she didn't care Nicole was hurt. Of course, YMMV  LOL 

[Lablover27]

Carole on WWHL regarding Luann's opinion of her dating hot chef:   "Luann likes a variety.  Young, old, married, single...."  Rhut?  Lab's ears went up.  I said "Now THAT's a dog bone Lab!" 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Lablover27

[Trooper York]

So wait a minute!

Carole is accusing Luann of having a Ghostwriter?

[film noire]

I didn't see it as John molesting them, they were all in his package too. Kristen running away was the same move she made after she flirted with Georgie Boy and he grabbed her last year.

 

Yes -- her reaction was quite odd. It's almost as if Kristin doesn't understand that grinding one's pudenda into a man's buttocks, then flipping around and vigorously rubbing one's ass cheeks into his crotch  -- while giggling,  tossing hair and doing arm circles as if riding the Fucktown Rodeo Express -- is likely to cause a man to think you're actually enjoying the process, rather than clearly cringing at the intimate nature of it all. It doesn't erase her right to retreat or feel shocked, but it might be wise for Kristin to examine her friggin' dance moves. (She should ask Carole about this. No doubt Carole got lost in a junk-grinding daydream of her own, while listening to Lu's niece confide secrets about her then-lover -- that daydream happily thought-bubbled,"THAT BOY IS FER ME! WHEN BOYS AND MIDDLE AGED WOMEN MEET, FUCKING ALWAYS HAPPENS!!"  --  all so unappetizing. Is there not a single middle-aged woman on this show who can handle being sexy, older and in play, without coming off as a desperate escapee from a Tennessee Williams play?)

Edited May 6, 2015 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

 

It was not the kindest thing she could or should have said, true, but they, Adam/Nicole, stopped seeing each other a year before this was filmed and I think (Carole) was saying that she is not sorry for dating him, not that she didn't care Nicole was hurt.

I re-watched the scene over several times to make sure I heard her right.  Carole says she knows Luann's niece is upset and she doesn't care. One sentence.  It wasn't her saying she was not sorry she was dating Adam.  It was disappointing.

 

No doubt Carole got lost in a junk-grinding daydream of her own,  while listening to Lu's niece confide secrets about her then-lover

 

Is it true that Carole actually befriended Nicole and hung out with her and LuAnn?  Did they really talk about Nicole's relationship with Adam?  Because if that is true ... and Carole hooked up with Adam afterwards ... even a year after they broke up ... that just seems rather "uncool," to borrow a phrase from Luann.

 

And it would also make Carole's blase' attitude about Nicole's hurt feelings that much more disappointing. 

 

I'm trying not to be all old-fashioned and stuff about Carole seeing someone who is the ex of a friend (assuming Nicole was some kind of friend to her).  But I can't quite get there.  In my day you didn't hook up with your friend's ex.  Have the rules changed since I was out on the market or something? 

 

 

So wait a minute!

Carole is accusing Luann of having a Ghostwriter?

 

That's the word on the street. 

[rho]

Sonja's marketing director said that their distribution warehouse is a whooping 160 square feet. 

 

I did a double take on that one. My bedroom is bigger than that. I have to guess it's some sort of business lingo that Bethenny understands. I can't imagine she would pass up the chance to make a brilliant passive aggressive quip about a 160 sq ft factory.

[potato]

The niece feeling some type of way is completely irrational IMO (from what we know of the story, anyway) so I don't blame Carole for getting defensive and saying that she doesn't care about her feelings. Your aunts friend that you've hung out is dating your ex, whom is still your friend...that is kind of an awkward dynamic, but there's no real reason to be hurt over it. You break up with someone...down the line, they make take up with someone you have connections to or have met. It's not like Carole and this girl were close friends or even friends at all just because they had hung out before. 

 

LotusFlower, I agree with the thought that the niece may not be over Adam. I can't imagine why else she would be so bothered by who her ex is fucking. And I imagine she went off on Luann for introducing them or w/e so now Luann feels like she has to stand up for her niece, hence her going crazy on Twitter. 

 

I agree with others that Kristen is useless but I do love her fashion. And make-up. She is honestly an attractive women...why did she settle for Josh?

 

Also, in her defense, she seemed to turn on John when he turned around and grabbed her hips/ass area. Sure, she started the grinding, but I can understand being taken aback by someone grabbing you in that area. Also, she was probably drunk and didn't realize how gross the whole thing was until it was too late. 

[EmZeeGee]

Carole just said:

QUOTE

Carole RadziwillVerified account

‏@CaroleRadziwill   Here's the real truth: I was Luann's niece's maid of honor at her first wedding. We met when I was her au pair. #shockingbackstory

 

 

 

 

Is the real truth supposed to be some sort of defense? If you were the niece in question's maid of honor and au pair, it makes it all the worse that you're eating their leftovers (or having them eat you, whatever the case may be). I feel like it's basic guy/girl code not to date your friend's ex. And it's an ex that I might see regularly because of the Nicaragua trip? No ma'am, no God. Carole would have to pick up another set of teeth from Sam Ash.

 

Oh, Sonja. I'm kind of hoping she falls on her face since she didn't get the wake up call the first set of law suits around. I'm sort of tired of Morgan money protecting her from complete failure. That sounds much more mean than I intend it, but I want her to understand business instead of just jumping in it. At least someone told her to start with clothing, which I feel is a much better fit for her than small appliances.

 

And forgive my indulgence, but I have to say it: What is your damage, Heather?

[potato]

Is the real truth supposed to be some sort of defense? If you were the niece in question's maid of honor and au pair, it makes it all the worse that you're eating their leftovers (or having them eat you, whatever the case may be). I feel like it's basic guy/girl code not to date your friend's ex. And it's an ex that I might see regularly because of the Nicaragua trip? No ma'am, no God. Carole would have to pick up another set of teeth from Sam Ash.

 

The tweet was a joke. 

 

I don't think Carole should even engage Luann tbh. 

 

My conspiracy theory side thinks this drama could all be for a storyline, because it doesn't really make sense that Luann seemed cool with Carole until the last episode aired. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by potato