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S10.E18: Jill's Special Delivery

bigskygirl

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graefin

graefin

It is certainly possible to miss a breech presentation both on abdominal and vaginal exam. Even an experienced midwife or doctor will miss it on occasions; I certainly have.  However, Jill had several big red flags that should've called for further assessment.  First off, she was HUGE, while it is possible to accurately predict a baby's size by physical exam alone, it is always a good idea to get an ultrasound to try to confirm it.  Most practitioners would've gotten an ultrasound a few weeks before her due date to try to better assess the baby's size and the breech would've been picked up then.

 

Next, when someone goes overdue, there is a risk of placental malfunction which can even lead to stillbirth.  One sign is decreased amniotic fluid around the baby which is why most practitioners would've gotten an ultrasound once Jill went a week or so overdue.  Once again, the breech would've been found,

If the breech had been caught at an earlier date, might it have been possible to do a version at that point, thus increasing the odds that Jill could have had the home birth she wanted?

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doodlebug
doodlebug

Watched the whole labor part again. First thing I noticed was that there was no  midwife present at the house until about a day and a half after her water broke.  That means to me that she was never h

JoanArc
JoanArc

As a nurse, I gotta say this is not remotely true. At all.   I fully support Jill's right to pop out a baby in a birthing tub while the Duggar Family Orchestra plays the blood song, but she's not al

doodlebug
doodlebug

I know that the Duggar party line is that this is what happened, in real life, it is far, far more likely that the baby was breech all along and nobody noticed, like 99% chance.  A 10 lb baby whose am

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JoanArc

JoanArc

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It is not the situation most women have experienced, where you are hooked up to a continuous monitor (the safety and efficacy of which, incidentally, has not yet been proven), in bed, not allowed to eat or drink, with a nurse that has 10 other patients in various stages of labor, monitoring them all via screens at the nursing station,

 

As a nurse, I gotta say this is not remotely true. At all.

 

I fully support Jill's right to pop out a baby in a birthing tub while the Duggar Family Orchestra plays the blood song, but she's not allowed to pretend hat everything would've gone hunky dory if she hadn't gotten major medical attention. Pretty much everything that went wrong can be attributed to crappy attendants and Jill's judgement/attitude. I'm really glad she'll never get the chance to 'help' other women.

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GEML

GEML

(edited)

I think everyone knows I'm a full advocate for midwives and home births, but Jill made some choices here that simply weren't smart ones when put together collectively. Having worked closely with midwives myself with my own overdue baby, I know it didn't have to be this way if only Jill had done some things differently. It's quite possible that the baby could have been turned if they had known about it before the water broke, for instance. And taking castor oil likely contributed to the meconium. There was no big wrong here. I certainly don't think Jill is a stupid woman. But she made small decision after small decision of zero intervention during the process, that resulted in that outcome that she wanted the least - full intervention at the end.

Edited by GEML
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Joe Jitsu913

Joe Jitsu913

(edited)

I live in Boston Ma with the best healthcare anywhere in the world, with doctors from Harvard, no less. I also have given birth multiple times. I know what I'm talking about with deciding on a college educated healthcare system for labor and delivery than Jill Duggars non educated mid wife approach. For my family and me there is no other choice.

Exactly. I live in the suburbs of Boston and wouldn't want to have healthcare anywhere else...with UMASS right nearby by my home in the case of an emergency. It's too bad that the Duggars looks down upon higher education when given the opportunity Jill could have become a real CNM or nurse instead of a "Gothard approved midwife ".

Edited by Joe Jitsu913
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Fostersmom

Fostersmom

My oldest nephew flipped a couple times while my sister was pregnant. When my sister first got the hospital, the nurse examined her and said he wasn't breech. By the time the labor progressed to the doctor coming stage, he looked at the chart and demanded an ultrasound, and yep, he was breech. That led to an emergency c-section. It was probably 4 or 5 hours after them getting to the hospital. She looked about as big as Jill, but she weighed 98 pounds when she got pregnant and gained 52 pounds during the pregnancy. Granted, she was a dumbass 17 year old who got pregnant on purpose and she had to be on bed rest for the last month and a half for low amniotic fluid and everyone kept taking food upstairs to her when she'd call for something to eat. It was like we were fattening up a cow! LOL! Also didn't help her doctor kept harping at her to gain more weight until my mom finally pointed out she had ready gained like 45 pounds, half her original body weight. Jill was probably 110 pounds to start and looked like she gained at least 40, if not more. 

 

I did find it interesting Michelle's THs mentioned numerous times she warned Jill to not doctor herself or rely on the things she wanted to turn out all okay. As clueless as Michelle can be, I think she had no delusions that Jill was going to get the fairy tale birth of her dreams and she knew Jill would push it to the limit like she did. My guess is she thinks the same thing about Anna too. 

 

I liked how excited Jill's buddies were when Jill and Dilly pulled in. They all raced to the door to see their mom. 

 

I know Josie's behavior in her THs has been discussed, but after seeing this episode, I'm wondering if the interview her at night. She seemed exhausted and a little bit slap happy in her THs. 

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GEML

GEML

We've discussed it in other forums, but there is one thing Michelle does well - breed and bear children. And this is a woman who has had quite a few c-sections (including her second pregnancy) and then went on to have very successful home births. I know we all kind of make fun of her for thinking she might have another or being delusional when doctors talk and she just brushes them off, but she IS really good at pregnancy and delivery. You can understand why she thinks she can beat the odds. Plus, she's never been an idiot about medical intervention. It's the one area of her life that she does take seriously.

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MichaelaRae

MichaelaRae

(edited)

I know babies can turn during labor. But I simply cannot believe a nearly 10 lber managed to do after the water broke and that the extreme discomfort, let alone alien belly bulging, that would have been the result of said fetus maneuvering would not have been picked up by Jill herself and/or experienced midwives. Add to that how overdue she was (and since she was pregnancy testing religiously - pun intended - you gotta figure she knew the conception date pretty well), the lack of progression of labor after her water breaking and I think Occam's Razor can be applied pretty easily here: the baby was breech and had been for at least some period of time BEFORE her water broke. (And for the record, I am very pro-home birth and/or births with as few medical interventions as necessary. The key part being NECESSARY.)

Edited by MichaelaRae
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Chai

Chai

We've discussed it in other forums, but there is one thing Michelle does well - breed and bear children. And this is a woman who has had quite a few c-sections (including her second pregnancy) and then went on to have very successful home births. I know we all kind of make fun of her for thinking she might have another or being delusional when doctors talk and she just brushes them off, but she IS really good at pregnancy and delivery. You can understand why she thinks she can beat the odds. Plus, she's never been an idiot about medical intervention. It's the one area of her life that she does take seriously.

yes, which is why I was surprised she didn't want the best medical help available to her daughter and grandchild. Leaving it to a midwife, and a home birth is something out of my comfort zone.  Again, no disrespect to midwives, its not my thing. But when you really really go through child birth and you could tell Jill had a huge baby in there, wouldn't you tell her to keep an open mind to an epidural/pain relief? If nothing else to spare your daughter agony? That's my thinking. 

There are so many things that can go wrong anyway. Not having the best medical care when you are millionaires and living like its the 1800's is tragic in my opinion. After all Jill had her wisdom teeth out. Why didn't she lay down on the couch and have JB pull them out with a pair of pliers?  No she went to a dentist and had it done.She did take pain relief after  her teeth were pulled, so what's the difference? LOL!

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Cherrio

Cherrio

(edited)

Maybe wearing "night clothes" leads to sexual thoughts?  And wearing regular, daytime clothes keeps your mind out of the gutter?  Maybe they don't want the film crew to see them (or their kids) in night attire? Just guesses. I really don't know.

I bet flannel pajama's get Pete's Pistol cocked and ready.      The Duggars always look dirty, unkempt and their beds sometimes have no sheets.   Oh, they must be too busy praying.

        I am going to develop and sell "Devotional Shower Gel".   Pray, shit and shower.

Edited by Cherrio
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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)

 

 

 

 

My oldest nephew flipped a couple times while my sister was pregnant. When my sister first got the hospital, the nurse examined her and said he wasn't breech. By the time the labor progressed to the doctor coming stage, he looked at the chart and demanded an ultrasound, and yep, he was breech

 

Don't you think it is also possible that the nurse who initially examined your sister was simply mistaken and the baby was breech all along?  Having examined tens of thousands of laboring women over 30 years, I can attest it is easy to do.  And, logically, it is far more likely that the baby was breech from the start than that he somehow managed to make a 180 degree turn between contractions.  It is very, very uncommon for a baby to make a major change in presentation during labor itself, especially a first baby who is larger than average and has little amniotic fluid surrounding him.

Edited by doodlebug
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bigskygirl

bigskygirl

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Okay...The what Jill did or did not do when she was in labor has been beaten to death, brought back to live and beaten to death again. This thread is for what happen on the episode and is not for repetitive speculation on what was not shown on the show. Any post on this one subject will be deleted from now on. Also, please bring your personal stories to the Small Talk thread. Thank you

ChicksDigScars

ChicksDigScars

So. I'm rewatching the "extended version" of the episode, with the bouncy house birthday party for Josie and Jordyn thrown in, and it was appalling how much they talked about how big Josie was, and how they can believe how Josie is five, and Josie this, and Josie that. Oh, and by the way, Jordyn is here, too.  That poor little girl. Overshadowed for her entire life, having to share a birthday week (8 days apart, actually) with Josie, the one child who actually gets attention from her mother. Well, sort of.  It was REALLY ticking me off how the entire narrative of the birthday party scenes was about Josie, and the mentions that Jordyn got were almost an afterthought. Kind of like the "find-a-crib" scenes. The crib was purchased for Jenny, and passed to Josie, supposedly. I guess Jordyn slept on the fucking floor. 

 

At least Jordyn seemed to get an equal cake and signage at the actual party, but the TH's were all about Josie.

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JasminePhyllisia

JasminePhyllisia

Haven't watched this show in ages, but tuned in to this one. Were those fruit platter cakes for the two youngest girls? I was impressed, as I remember the Duggars aren't an especially nutrition-minded bunch.

So Jill's knees were blurred out for the show, but she had her skirt hiked up while some guy did her pedicure? Weird.

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MarysWetBar

MarysWetBar

(edited)

My thoughts in no particilar order cus that was a disjointed mess of a show:

*MEchelle baby training babies. As if anyone in their right mind would hand Josephine McLickerson a real baby. Howsabout show those girls how to brush their own hair and how to ride a bike or maybe look at a book of flower types so they don't end up like Jessa someday.

*Jill taking about her mother- "She COULD get pregnant again. That would be cool." Ugh

*Jill with hussy red polish on her toes. Derrikdillards pedicure. He was definitely aroused. His face ..dear God ..NO! Possible foot fetish?

*M&JB montage...sickening. All it needed was some Phil Collins drumtrack. Reminded me of Will Ferrills snl sketch...The Lovers.

*Derrickdillard needs to just stop. I hope he is only awkward cus of the cameras. Cus his smooching style is awful. Jilly all closed lips. I'm embarrassed FOR them.

*Derrickdillards DAD! HELLOOOO HANDSOME! Only part of show that piqued my interest.

*FUinternet moment...we will encourage our kids to do whatever they want to do. Maybe college? Yay Derrick!

*We need more Dan and Cathy. Dan is hilarious and noticed he had one of the kids up on his shoulders. Derrick is actually good with kids too. They seem very comfortable with little ones.

*The scene with Derrick reading the journal entry from his Dad...ok...i cried. There. .its out. Now you know. I am human afterall.

*I couldn't stand to have that many people around when i was labouring.

*JB- "We been tryin but ain't anything happenin! Dunno if its her plumbing or mine." Jill looked stunned when he said it. Lucky the nausea it likely caused didn't send her into labour.

Edited by MarysWetBar
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becca3891

becca3891

I thought the same thing; Derick looked as though he was REALLY enjoying himself during the pedicure and I wanted to see if his jeans were getting a bit tight. :) I also thought it was very strange that Jill wouldn't have requested the woman pedicurist for herself and the man for Derick. Boob was probably furious when he watched the episode, saw that his precious Jill had defrauded the guy doing her feet, especially when her knees had to get blurred, and then felt helpless because he's no longer Jill's authority.

 

Not at all to be snobbish, because you don't have to go to college to be well educated, but it really hit home in the University of Oklahoma segment how sheltered Jill is, and how foreign the concept of college was to her. Even going to a basketball game is not something the Duggars would ever do, because of the defrauding cheerleaders and also the fact that Gothard discourages organized sports, as they're not God-honoring enough.

 

Finally, I almost lost my dinner when they recapped Boob and J'Chelle's worst PDA moments. I'd forgotten Boob said "Does that turn you on?" at the mini golf place. Disgusting and very, very far from modest. For the love of god, show us your precious, private knees and leave the bedroom talk in the bedroom. Josh and Anna's barbs about it were gold, though.

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Zahdii

Zahdii

(edited)

I'd forgotten Boob said "Does that turn you on?" at the mini golf place. Disgusting and very, very far from modest...Josh and Anna's barbs about it were gold, though.

 

Wait.  What?  JB actually said that?  I've heard about the mini golf course gross out PDA, but haven't seen it for myself.  Is there a video out there somewhere?  Because whether he was saying that to his wife or his daughter and future son in law, it's gross either way.  Even more gross than the dry humping I'd heard of while the parents gleefully announced something to the effect of "You can't do this until you're married!"

 

While I'm at it, is there footage about Josh and Anna sounding off on the above scene?  It would give me great hope for them if they not only recognized that JB&M's behavior was out of line, but were willing to snark on it on film.

Edited by Zahdii
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JasminePhyllisia

JasminePhyllisia

(edited)

Haven't watched this show in ages, but tuned in to this one. Were those fruit platter cakes for the two youngest girls? I was impressed, as I remember the Duggars aren't an especially nutrition-minded bunch.

So Jill's knees were blurred out for the show, but she had her skirt hiked up while some guy did her pedicure? Weird.

 

Funny story about why I was curious to watch this one, I was recently on a road trip with my mom and she was reading (am I allowed to mention People mag here?) the article about Jill's long delivery.  I've watched the show on occasion over the years, but she knows nothing about the Duggars.  While I was driving she provided a running commentary and said she felt sorry for poor Jill, this being her first.  She mentioned that Jill's mother was there helping during the home phase of the delivery.  "What about her husband?" I asked.  "He sang hymns," she replied.

Edited by JasminePhyllisia
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Mrsjumbo

Mrsjumbo

After watching the epi three times I took a close look at Derick's baby picture and little Rick James has his nose otherwise not much else.

Cathy being in the delivery room was really special for her. I'm glad she was invited to meet her grandson and hold him.

Wow, you are made of stronger stuff than I am! I didn't even make it through once, & even though it has been on again, I can't get myself to watch this foolishness more than once per episode.

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bigskygirl

bigskygirl

  • Author

Posts about Jill did not do or should have done while she was in labor have been deleted after the May 9th mod note about this very subject. Episode threads are for discussions about what happened on the show, not to speculated on what a person should have, could have, etc. etc. outside the show. This one topic has been beaten to death. Time to close the barn door and move on to what happened on the this one episode. Any questions or concerns, please feel free to send a PM to one of the mods. Any further speculation posts not related to the what was shown on the show will be deleted. Thank you.

cmr2014

cmr2014

 

Given the amount of filler footage I'm wondering what the original plan was for the episode and how much was scrapped after Jill's delivery turned into a shitshow.

A lot of people seem to feel this way, but I really can't imagine how much more of Jill's labor a human being could have been expected to watch -- labor is not particularly riveting television. Unless Jill had given birth on the toilet, or at the Mexican restaurant (and I'm sure that everyone at TLC had their fingers crossed), I don't know what else we could have seen. I think that the hospital birth gave them more usable footage than a home birth

 

The whole thing was just a shitshow, and it's unfortunate that Jill has no sense of modesty or privacy and thought that this would be a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate something about Jesus or Gothard or babies or whatever. There is simply nothing that is private or personal in their world: tiresome schmoopy-laden conversations between lovers, a young couple's first kiss, the birth of a baby, the loss of a baby, etc. I suppose we should all be grateful that they aren't filming the conception -- although we did get that horrifying visual of JB dry humping J'chelle on the putt-putt golf course.

 

I hope that Jill (and Derick) learned something from this, and that Jessa did, too, but I doubt it.

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truthtalk2014

truthtalk2014

My thoughts in no particilar order cus that was a disjointed mess of a show:

*MEchelle baby training babies. As if anyone in their right mind would hand Josephine McLickerson a real baby. Howsabout show those girls how to brush their own hair and how to ride a bike or maybe look at a book of flower types so they don't end up like Jessa someday.

*Jill taking about her mother- "She COULD get pregnant again. That would be cool." Ugh

*Jill with hussy red polish on her toes. Derrikdillards pedicure. He was definitely aroused. His face ..dear God ..NO! Possible foot fetish?

*M&JB montage...sickening. All it needed was some Phil Collins drumtrack. Reminded me of Will Ferrills snl sketch...The Lovers.

*Derrickdillard needs to just stop. I hope he is only awkward cus of the cameras. Cus his smooching style is awful. Jilly all closed lips. I'm embarrassed FOR them.

*Derrickdillards DAD! HELLOOOO HANDSOME! Only part of show that piqued my interest.

*FUinternet moment...we will encourage our kids to do whatever they want to do. Maybe college? Yay Derrick!

*We need more Dan and Cathy. Dan is hilarious and noticed he had one of the kids up on his shoulders. Derrick is actually good with kids too. They seem very comfortable with little ones.

*The scene with Derrick reading the journal entry from his Dad...ok...i cried. There. .its out. Now you know. I am human afterall.

Yea!  I did as well.  Thought I was PMSing or something.  Cathy is just so much more skilled at being a kind and loving parent.  You know MEchelle was hating it.  You just know it.  She has no idea how to give love and attention to anyone but MEchelle or Boob. 

truthtalk2014

truthtalk2014

(edited)

So. I'm rewatching the "extended version" of the episode, with the bouncy house birthday party for Josie and Jordyn thrown in, and it was appalling how much they talked about how big Josie was, and how they can believe how Josie is five, and Josie this, and Josie that. Oh, and by the way, Jordyn is here, too.  That poor little girl. Overshadowed for her entire life, having to share a birthday week (8 days apart, actually) with Josie, the one child who actually gets attention from her mother. Well, sort of.  It was REALLY ticking me off how the entire narrative of the birthday party scenes was about Josie, and the mentions that Jordyn got were almost an afterthought. Kind of like the "find-a-crib" scenes. The crib was purchased for Jenny, and passed to Josie, supposedly. I guess Jordyn slept on the fucking floor. 

 

At least Jordyn seemed to get an equal cake and signage at the actual party, but the TH's were all about Josie.

I did not see the extended version- however, the whole crib thing pissed me off to no end. Why is it ALWAYS about Miracle?  Why did they not include Jennifer or Jordyn in the search?  You are right.  Jordyn was probably sleeping on the steps of the Little Rock house with her head stuck in a stair railing.  Why did Jordyn and Jennifer not get to accompany Miracle to the Dullard house to give the crib?  Because they don't give a crap about them!  That's why.  I wish some nice family would come kidnap those kids  (not really- so don't be calling the FBI on me) and give them the attention they deserve.  It might actually be weeks before Bitchchelle even noticed. 

 

I have a feeling that Jennifer and Jordyn are going to grow up with great resentments for Miracle Josie and MEchelle. Waiting for the day they act out and tell someone to F off!  

Edited by truthtalk2014
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