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S10.E18: Jill's Special Delivery


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I'm not holding Jill's comment on the baby not being ugly against her.  I am just wondering where it came from.  Does she think she's ugly?  Does she think Derick's ugly?  I am just wondering where on earth she got the idea the baby might be ugly.

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(edited)

So is there something in the contract that states that there must be X amount of minutes devoted to Michelle's birthing stories in every "special delivery" episode? Did we really have to see all that AGAIN? And are we in for another round when Jessa has her baby?

I think that was Johnson's Baby Lotion that Michelle was putting in Josie's hair. Yes, she has fine curly hair that probably gets really tangled, but they do make detangling spray for that. Nine long-haired daughters and she doesn't know that? To be fair that was just a photo op. I doubt she ever really combs any of the girls' hair.

Whenever I see Josie's hair, I would bet money it's never been combed thru, ever. Who's Josie's bigger buddy/Mama? she always looks a mess to me, hair included.

Edited by Happyfatchick
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I can imagine that that baby was transverse for a very long time, the midwife Jill had missed this and since there probably weren't any more ultrasounds, they didn't catch that the baby wasn't head down. Didn't Doodlebug say that Iz couldn't have turned on his own since he was already so big?

In other words, I don't trust a word any Duggar says about anything medical. Remember this is the Duggars who believe that once you have chicken pox you are protected against shingles.

Show me the conversation with the doctor. Or as with Anna, the midwife, the non-lay midwife.

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I know that some women do go 7-10  days past their due date but, considering she was already 11 days past her due date, she should not have waited 3 days after her water broke. That was just dumb. I've never heard of anybody waiting that long to go to the hospital. In their Plan B they should've agreed to going to the hospital if the baby didn't appear with the first 24 hours. As a midwife she should've known she waited too long. I get the impression the fundies really don't like having to resort to going to the hospital. 

 

That said, after watching Josie gnawl at her crib, I now understand the episode when she made her own pizza. 

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When Jill mentioned the meconium staining her exact words were "the baby's not doing great, but it's not an emergency." I wonder what in her mind would constitute emergency status?

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From what I understood the baby turned during labor. I don't remember who said it but they said when jill was checked -again- they knew something was wrong and then seen he was turned the wrong way. So the baby was in the right position at the start of labor

there is no way in Hell that a baby that size can turn once they are in birth position another fucking lie.

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(edited)

This show needs to come with a disclaimer "This is how we do things, it isn't always right or smart but we do it that way anyway, ask your doctor about your own medical issues", because you know leg humpers will claim that they saw Jill say something so it has to be true.

Edited by Chicklet
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I'm not holding Jill's comment on the baby not being ugly against her.  I am just wondering where it came from.  Does she think she's ugly?  Does she think Derick's ugly?  I am just wondering where on earth she got the idea the baby might be ugly.

I thought maybe it was her first time seeing a c-section baby.  But Michelle had c-sections, so she saw her siblings.

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(edited)

I, too, find it amazing that a baby (especially THAT baby, weighing what he did) changed his position during labor. A woman's uterus and abdomen muscles do such funky stuff during delivery, Jill would have been attached to the ceiling screaming all sorts of demon worthy noises if he'd turned himself at that point. Plus her stomach would have been doing contortions not unlike an alien trying to get out in a bad sci fi movie. Mine (big boy) was face up and had to be manually rearranged with me in full-on labor. BTDT. It's ugly and it hurts like helllllllllll. Way worse than the actual delivery for me.

Edited to remove redundancy because I read Doodlebugs post :) Thanks Doodle for your insight. Even with your post, I wanted to snark enough to leave a visual of Jill's alien belly. I believe he'd been riding uphill unnoticed as well.

Edited by Happyfatchick
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I'm skeptical that the baby turned during labor, being not only so large, but with little to no birthing fluid in uterus at that point. It's quite possible that they pumped in sterile saline in the hopes of getting him to switch (they did saline with me when I was running out of amniotic fluid, but my baby had dropped) so perhaps there was an attempt made to change him, but I don't think that HE change during the process.

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Everyone is right -- there is no way an overdue baby of that size turned during labor. Jill didn't want to admit that her non certified midwife had no clue he'd been breech for quite some time.

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It also says to me that Jill's midwives didn't do a very good job of assessing the situation when her due date came and went.  Malposition (breech) is one of the reasons someone might be overdue; had they examined her with that in mind, they might've caught it.  Another reason for going overdue is a large baby who doesn't fit very well.  It seems Jill's midwives had no idea the kiddo was huge, an experienced midwife should've caught it without an ultrasound.  Finally, when a baby is almost 2 weeks overdue, the amount of amniotic fluid around it can decrease to dangerous levels even before the water breaks.  No decent midwife would've told Jill a homebirth was safe for her without getting an ultrasound to assess the amount of fluid, the size and position of the baby when she went more than a week past her date,

 

 

 

This was certainly true when I went post-date with a midwife. I had both and u/s and a NST. We both laughed at the idea of an u/s to make sure she was head down because she was basically engaged in my pelvis from conception LOL. But we did it anyway because when you are post-date you want to be sure all is as expected. 

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RE:  Jill staying the baby was not ugly---I have a letter written by my father to my grandmother to announce my birth.  He writes about what a very ugly baby I was.  It gets a good laugh now.........

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(edited)

RE:  Jill staying the baby was not ugly---I have a letter written by my father to my grandmother to announce my birth.  He writes about what a very ugly baby I was.  It gets a good laugh now.........

 

Awwww... Hey, it's my experience that those newborns who don't start out looking like the Gerber baby almost always ending up being really good-looking later in life. And vice versa.

Edited by Wellfleet
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I'm not holding Jill's comment on the baby not being ugly against her.  I am just wondering where it came from.  Does she think she's ugly?  Does she think Derick's ugly?  I am just wondering where on earth she got the idea the baby might be ugly.

Maybe she is judging against the babies at whose births she assisted?

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I had not heard of Marfan til your post. So I googled and also googled images of Derrick and I can really see what you mean. It's funny because I did note how very long his fingers were when I watched last night. All snark aside I hope he isn't afflicted with that, hopefully if it was a factor in his dad's death Derrick would have been made aware. Thanks for the lesson/info.

Do we know what his dad died from. My hubby had a type A aortic dissection, the type that killed John Ritter. He was  in the hospital for 3 months.  He doesn't have Marfan's thoug, but I know a lot about it from dealing with an AD. Does Marfan's cause a Bicuspid valve? If so, maybe they have tested Derick for one. We had my son tested and thank goodness his aortic valve is normal.

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I'm not holding Jill's comment on the baby not being ugly against her.  I am just wondering where it came from.  Does she think she's ugly?  Does she think Derick's ugly?  I am just wondering where on earth she got the idea the baby might be ugly.

I have heard a lot of people talk about babies from vaginal birth looking ugly or messed upie. red faced, bruised, cone headed etc from birth. Csection babies are pretty and clean with no signs of the trauma a vaginal birth can show. That may be what she meant

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My first practice was both midwives and OBs, and once I was over we did ultrasounds and non stress tests. I sort of assumed Jill would have had these at least once.

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Sigh. Episode is not up on Amazon yet, and apparently tlc finally noticed that various random people were posting each episode on YouTube immediately after broadcast. Given that that's a copyright violation, they've all been pulled.

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(edited)

Would Jill have had an ultrasound upon admission to the hospital or only after she had been laboring for so long without any progress? I'm curious because the Duggars are notorious for screwing with timelines.

If I remember correctly I think I had one while in the operating room to make sure the twins where in the right position. I can't remember I'll ask my OB/GYNE cousin she was in the room with us.

 

With a baby RickJames size I can't imagine a natural birth.....but what do I know? 

Edited by Fuzzysox
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I'm not holding Jill's comment on the baby not being ugly against her.  I am just wondering where it came from.  Does she think she's ugly?  Does she think Derick's ugly?  I am just wondering where on earth she got the idea the baby might be ugly.

 

I wonder if it's because she's seen so many babies who were born vaginally and perhaps after long labors? My brother was pretty big and I remember our parents joking that he looked like a boxer who'd had a very bad day when he was born, because of all the bruising and strange shape of his head. I didn't think it was all that strange of a comment either.

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I don't understand why everyone is saying she was wrong or that she messed up because the doctor sure didn't seem overly concerned for the first several hours, Yes. I totally agree however that her choice to not go in soon after her water broke isn't the way I (or just about anyone else) would do things but is it really a "mess up" or an odd life choice. I mean, really really odd. If I'd been knocked up forever and was that far past due, I'd be reaching up and manually evicting the kid myself....but the doctor didn't appear overly worried at first.

And the Michelle gem of hearing that (and I paraphrase) "doctors and nurses like totally know stuff..." was exceptionally precious and a blessing.

I think Jill probably didn't tell the truth to the doctors or she was stubborn.

Everyone is right -- there is no way an overdue baby of that size turned during labor. Jill didn't want to admit that her non certified midwife had no clue he'd been breech for quite some time.

Rachel is a student midwife right? Aka Gothard midwife

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When Jill mentioned the meconium staining her exact words were "the baby's not doing great, but it's not an emergency." I wonder what in her mind would constitute emergency status?

This. Jill is stupid as fuck. She better thank her lucky stars dilly is ok, or I hope

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Jill and that side pony and headband, just NO. I bet Jessa is dying of embarrassment or laughing her head off. Jill looks crazy.

They could have easily done the baby shower, nursery decorating and highly edited birth in the course of one hour. The rehashing was just to stroke Mechelle's ego and keep her thin hold on her sanity. The fact that she's holding onto cribs thinking she'll have more blessings at 48 shows how delusional she is.

Also throw me on top of the pile of those who think the nursery decorating was staged. It seems unlikely that someone who wrote a 700 page Birth Plan Manifesto would blow off setting up a nursery until the week of her due date.

That was total BS, or Jill is an idiot. Maybe both. She's obsessed about being pregnant and having her 19 kids for YEARS. She devoted her 'studies' to midwifery. I don't for a second believe she didn't have her nursery decorated and a huge list of her registries as soon as she knew they were moving into that house, way before she got pregnant.

 

In Josie's defense, my impression of her "biting/snapping" in the air during the TH segment is that both girls were talking about the fact that she used to chew on her crib rail. They showed Josie doing it, while MEchelle and JB watched her and talked about how she used to do that, and then Josie and one of the Lost Girls (I can't keep them straight - was it Jennifer?) were talking - wait, I mean mumbling - about it in the TH and Josie was mimicking how she used to bite the crib. So while I worry about that child's developmental needs, in this case, I think it was actually a fairly normal thing to do.

That was odd, but not 'she needs a straight jacket' odd. Her catching the fake flies and eating them in whatever talking head that was, definitely weird, but not padded room weird, IMO.

 

I think Michelle's interactions with Josie make it abundantly clear that she has no idea how to raise a child. But this shouldn't really be any surprise, since their goal isn't to "raise" children to be functional, well-adjusted adults, but to "train" them to be good Gothardites. She obviously has no clue about child development, so if Josie did have any delays, she would not be the one to spot them.

After watching the recent reruns of 14-17 and counting, I think Michelle WAS far more hands on and a decent mother, before they started the race for 20, and before Josie. Somewhere along then she realized her baby catching (Yes, i'm cringing at that term) are ending and also that she has a bunch of built in nannies and maids, so she flipped out and gave up. I think she's also trying to control some hardcore emotions and also hormonal changes by denying her real emotions in favor of those bizarre Gothard character traits, thus the wide eyes, fake, high pitched voice, staring at her husband, etc. Maybe if she follows enough rules, she'll have one more blessing!.

 

Also - Jimbob was a huge Asshole for that "we keep trying, but I don't know if something's wrong with her plumbing or mine" comment about not getting pregnant. You have NINETEEN healthy kids (yes, Josie, has some issues, but she's pretty healthy) and your wife is almost FIFTY. You have plenty of kids. STOP IT. Maybe it's God's will for her to live to raise the ones she has, therefore he's allowing her to go through menopause as to not risk her life with another one. You have NINETEEN. Shut your pie hole. If you're delusional, SHUT UP. If you're trying to make Michelle feel better by saying she can have another one, your'e an ignorant fool, SHUT UP. Just SHUT UP.

 

About Josie- it is really confusing. I think its a good sign that Josie is able to answer questions. She clearly understands what is being said to her & is able to answer. She is able to answer better than my 8 yr Ds with SN. However, other times she seems "off" & immature for her age, like when she is snapping her mouth open & shut.

OK I've said it now since seeing the fly catching talking head. Josie 'ain't right', bless her heart. I don't mean she has some developmental or physical issues from being born so early (even though she clearly had some catching up to do physically, and does deal with seizures, but she seems physically healthy from what we've seen). Like a lot of her siblings, she may have some learning issues they'll have to deal with.

 

What I think 'ain't right' is that she's almost a feral child and she has an odd personality. She's the baby of the family, and she was so touch and go as a preemie, that even though she's almost ignored, like all of Howler Boys and Lost Girls, but she's still spoiled. Michelle denies that Josie has any extra issues that may need attention, yet she speaks to her like she's an infant. Her biggest issue/obstacle, IMO, is her parents are idiots who do not care if she learns basic social skills or manners, unless it's time to parade Miracle Baby in front of cameras. Josie has issues focusing and communicating, IMO, because she's always been able to get by with being the baby and always has a sibling or five to speak for her, She's never had to Use Her Words, so she hasn't. Some of the boys also seem to have difficulty sitting still and forming a complete sentence, but it's because they've never had to, not because they don't have the ability to do so.

 

Everyone remembers That Weird Kid in the neighborhood, or classroom, who grew up to turn out just fine, but did bizarre things like wear a Batman Cape way too long, made animal noises on the school bus, ate glue, etc. That's Josie. She just has an odd personality, is probably a little bit immature, and isn't being taught any social skills, but will turn out just find - as long as they keep her seizures monitored. In regards to the licking, I think that's in response to being immature, needing an outlet for expression and not enough stimulation - sort of like a baby or toddler who needs a pacifier or an older kid who needs a security blanket.I also think she gets bored filming, but knows that if she starts acting weird and not answering questions, they'll let her go, so she just does something weird - also a sign that she's intelligent enough to figure that out, but not being taught to have better manners.

 

As for Michelle teaching the little girls how to feed and diaper dolls, I don't think there's anything nefarious about it. Now, she should be telling the boys, as well, how to properly hold babies, but........as a little girl, I LOVED that stuff. I carried a doll everywhere probably until second grade, and would've longer if I could've. My sister, on the other hand, HATED dolls, and was bored to tears around babies. BTW she now has three kids and is a wonderful, loving mother.

 

Jenny (the prettiest one of the whole bunch) cracked me up with that whole doll segment. She didn't want to participate, so she did the exact opposite of what she should do (diapering a head LOL) until she could escape. My money is on her for the one to break free and not look back. 

 

Best part of the whole episode was Josie side-eyeing Michelle when she was giving that crib speech, and Josie was all, "WTH is wrong with this woman, and why does she think I care about that raggedy crib? Oh, you have no idea where it is, IT'S RIGHT THERE, IDIOT?" 

 

Jessa - get off Ben's lap. We get that you guys go from 0 to 60 in a matter of months, but it's ok to not be joined at the hip. No one will snatch him. He won't run away. PDA is not modest.

 

Kathy Dillard is amazing. She's graceful and considerate through all this circus, despite her dealing with cancer treatment. I'd be so tempted to carry around a spray bottle and dousing every person who said "neat," "blessing," "purposing", "character." awesome", "totally," "modesty" or anything in that simpering baby voice. I'd also want to douse any kid who climbed barefoot on a counter or licked anything. The letter from Derrick's dad made the whole episode. I cried.  I also think Jill walks all over Kathy and only includes her when the occasion can be all about Jill - like going to see her, but on film and to bring her a picture of Jill, or accept her gifts, etc. No wonder Kathy's husband does not seem impressed with the Circus.

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(edited)

How many of you nearly choked on your drinks when Jill stated that Baby Iz would have TWO Grandmas to spoil him? Wishful thinking there Jilly Muff. While Jill was having these fantasies Michelle was training six year olds to change diapers so she wouldn't have to do it when Iz visits the TTH.

Edited by BitterApple
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I can't get mad at Jill of saying 'he's not ugly' when first seeing her baby. A lot of babies are scrunched up and covered in goop, and Jill was medicated. One of the funniest Reality TV moments ever for me, was when Phaedra Parks on RHWOA's first remark after seeing her baby after a C-section was a mumble of "ooh, he looks Chinese." (Phaedra is black and her husband is biracial, and Phaedra is a very verbiose attorney, for those who don't watch). 

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I don't for a second believe she didn't have her nursery decorated and a huge list of her registries as soon as she knew they were moving into that house, way before she got pregnant. <snip>

 

Maybe if she follows enough rules, she'll have one more blessing!.

 

Also - Jimbob was a huge Asshole for that "we keep trying, but I don't know if something's wrong with her plumbing or mine" comment about not getting pregnant. You have NINETEEN healthy kids (yes, Josie, has some issues, but she's pretty healthy) and your wife is almost FIFTY. You have plenty of kids. STOP IT. <snip>

 

OK I've said it now since seeing the fly catching talking head. Josie 'ain't right', bless her heart. I don't mean she has some developmental or physical issues from being born so early (even though she clearly had some catching up to do physically, and does deal with seizures, but she seems physically healthy from what we've seen). Like a lot of her siblings, she may have some learning issues they'll have to deal with.

 

What I think 'ain't right' is that she's almost a feral child and she has an odd personality. She's the baby of the family, and she was so touch and go as a preemie, that even though she's almost ignored, like all of Howler Boys and Lost Girls, but she's still spoiled. Michelle denies that Josie has any extra issues that may need attention, yet she speaks to her like she's an infant. Her biggest issue/obstacle, IMO, is her parents are idiots who do not care if she learns basic social skills or manners, unless it's time to parade Miracle Baby in front of cameras. Josie has issues focusing and communicating, IMO, because she's always been able to get by with being the baby and always has a sibling or five to speak for her, She's never had to Use Her Words, so she hasn't. Some of the boys also seem to have difficulty sitting still and forming a complete sentence, but it's because they've never had to, not because they don't have the ability to do so.<snip>

 

Sorry to snip any of your post because I thought it was great!  But I did just for space reasons.

 

I am pretty sure that nursery was decorated well before the baby's arrival was imminent. Wasn't her registry total cost $20k or something if everything was purchased?  (or am I mixing it up with her wedding registry?).  And that's on top of the gifts she gushed about getting from Cathy and Michelle. Their obsession with gifts has really bothered me, especially for such a supposedly modest and humble family. I can't believe they didn't have the nursery decorated earlier, unless they had so much stuff they didn't know what to do with all of it.

 

Totally agree about JB and his comments!  It's really gross to tell your daughter that you're "still trying!" to have another baby. Okay fine, if it works out, tell her "momma's pregnant again," but it's pretty disgusting IMO to talk about working on it. I thought maybe they were warning her they might need the crib back.

 

I'm not sure what to think about Josie on this episode or other episodes. She definitely seems a bit off for her age, but so do a lot of the kids, so I don't feel like I can tell if it's "nature" or "nurture" when I see her. When I watch Michelle talk to her all bug-eyed and baby-voiced I lean towards "nurture." I have also been surprised more than once to see any of the kids reading at all. I assume it's mostly so they can go through Gothard approved Bible versus.

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Sorry to snip any of your post because I thought it was great!  But I did just for space reasons.

 

Totally agree about JB and his comments!  It's really gross to tell your daughter that you're "still trying!" to have another baby. Okay fine, if it works out, tell her "momma's pregnant again," but it's pretty disgusting IMO to talk about working on it. I thought maybe they were warning her they might need the crib back.

 

I'm not sure what to think about Josie on this episode or other episodes. She definitely seems a bit off for her age, but so do a lot of the kids, so I don't feel like I can tell if it's "nature" or "nurture" when I see her. When I watch Michelle talk to her all bug-eyed and baby-voiced I lean towards "nurture." I have also been surprised more than once to see any of the kids reading at all. I assume it's mostly so they can go through Gothard approved Bible versus.

Yeah, I wrote a novel. Long episode, long response :-)

I was hoping that passing on the crib was Michelle admitting she has mental closure on her childbearing season of life being over. Then Dumbass Jimbob has to go on about how they're trying for more. He thinks we're stupid or he's delusional. Either way, gross and NOT MODEST.

 

I guess time will tell with Josie. She's come a long way, and I'd love to see her be the one who ends up becoming a physician or  scientist.

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What a minute here is a question for Doodlebug, don't you give a vag exam to see how many center meters a  woman is and then you can also check to see if the baby's head is down there?

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I just watched the let's-find-the-crib scene in the kitchen and... ok, I know we snark and poke fun and mock Michelle all the time and with good reason, but this scene I actually found disturbing for real. Not just because she is acting so strange with her bug-eyes and overly dramatic baby-speech (Wouldn't that be so SPECIAL, AAAAHW?)" but because of how Jim Bob and Josie react to her. They both look so incredibly uncomfortable, especially Jim Bob and to me it looks like they both realise that this is not normal behaviour.

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Totally agree about JB and his comments!  It's really gross to tell your daughter that you're "still trying!" to have another baby. Okay fine, if it works out, tell her "momma's pregnant again," but it's pretty disgusting IMO to talk about working on it. I thought maybe they were warning her they might need the crib back.

 

I agree... if my parents had ever told me they were trying I would have thrown up on the spot.

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You have NINETEEN healthy kids (yes, Josie, has some issues, but she's pretty healthy) and your wife is almost FIFTY. You have plenty of kids. STOP IT. Maybe it's God's will for her to live to raise the ones she has, therefore he's allowing her to go through menopause as to not risk her life with another one. You have NINETEEN. Shut your pie hole. If you're delusional, SHUT UP. If you're trying to make Michelle feel better by saying she can have another one, your'e an ignorant fool, SHUT UP. Just SHUT UP.

 

This sums up the way I'm feeling about this whole circus right now. I had been willing to give Boob somewhat of a pass when, after Jubilee died, he took MEchelle to an ob-gyn who told her her childbearing years most likely were over; I was under the impression that perhaps he was ready to move on to another "season" of life and was trying to help MEchelle understand as well. But he proved last night that he's just as delusional as she is, and that the two of them are really, truly not right. As much as I like some of the kids, this whole thing is growing more disturbing by the week, and it probably needs to just stop.

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This sums up the way I'm feeling about this whole circus right now. I had been willing to give Boob somewhat of a pass when, after Jubilee died, he took MEchelle to an ob-gyn who told her her childbearing years most likely were over; I was under the impression that perhaps he was ready to move on to another "season" of life and was trying to help MEchelle understand as well. But he proved last night that he's just as delusional as she is, and that the two of them are really, truly not right. As much as I like some of the kids, this whole thing is growing more disturbing by the week, and it probably needs to just stop.

My original theory was the JB has realized MEchelle is not right in the head, that's why Jana is still there, to run the day to day house & oversee the kid's upbringing. Kind of the elephant in the room, where the older kids realize she's not all there, but humor her.

But with a comment like this- no, he's just as delusional as she is,

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(edited)
Michelle "We are grandparents now."

 

Oh, I picked up on this comment as soon as her annoying kewpie doll voice said it,   I yelled at the TV, "You already have THREE grandchildren, you fucking idiot." I'm sure Anna watched and picked up on it, as well.  Face it, Anna. No matter how many "blessings" you obsessively squeeze out to get your mother-in-law's approval, it will never be enough. You're invisible to MEEE-chelle.

 

Other things I noticed. Besides the pixelated knees at the pedicure (seriously, Jill?), Jill also couldn't say the word "vaginally" in her TH when talking about the fact that Izzy had turned. She hesitated ever-so-slightly where the word should have gone. 

 

Also, the crib. It was purchased when Jenny was born and was passed on to.....Josie? Poor Jordyn. Forgotten again. They never mentioned a second crib in storage that Jordyn would have slept in, so she either got skipped, or slept in a grocery box from Aldi's, Who am I kidding. These people haven't shopped at Aldi's since the 14-15-16 Kids and Counting days. Did they ever mention passing a Jordyn crib to Anna? If they had passed a crib down to Anna, they would have mentioned it, because they never miss a chance to make a gesture all about JB and MEE-chelle's "generosity" and sacrifice. 

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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What a minute here is a question for Doodlebug, don't you give a vag exam to see how many center meters a  woman is and then you can also check to see if the baby's head is down there?

Yeah, I would've done a vaginal exam immediately both to assess the baby's position and to see what her cervix was doing (how dilated, how thin, how low the baby's head was).  However, I would be willing to bet that Jill had 'no vaginal exams until I feel that I need to push' as part of her birth plan.  It's pretty typical for Bradley adherents.  While there is an increased risk of infection from multiple vaginal exams, there is also the risk of missing important information like the baby is breech.  The two have to be weighed and decisions made as to what is best in each situation.  As a more mainstream practitioner, I would've done an exam and then repeated it to be sure she was making progress over time.  A woman can have painful contractions which are not changing her cervix, especially a first time mom who has no basis for comparison between real labor and false..  Since Jill planned to stay home and refused intervention such as Pitocin or epidurals, there wasn't much point in vaginal exams for her anyway.  She may well have continued to refuse exams after coming to the hospital.  That's the only reason I can think of to explain how it took 3 days for somebody to figure out the kid wasn't headfirst.

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Did noone else notice Jenni painfully switch from saying "we didn't" (when asked why they wanted to open the presents first), to "oh, yeah, we did", clearly lying as she was instructed to do? WTF are you doing to those kids, TLC and Elder Duggars? I suspect the littles opening the presents was a TLC setup. Anyway...

 

Run, Jenni, RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Just found the episode online. Jesus Christ, 1:25 minutes of this? It's good they identified Jill's midwives so people know who to avoid. When I read Jill's quote about choosing "competent" midwives, I was impressed with her for using such a big word. Now that I've actually heard it, I realize it's probably the first time she'd used it because of the way she sounded it out. HA!

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(edited)

Performing an exam on a patient without their consent is assault.  As far as an ultrasound goes, that's an exam, too.  I would hope the doctor performed a vaginal exam prior to ordering Pitocin, but, if she refused or insisted that her midwife be the only one to examine her or some such baloney, it could've been deferred. I suspect also that, despite her insistence that she'd been in labor for days, she probably wasn't very far along.  If she was only dilated a centimeter or two and if the baby was butt first and the sacrum (tailbone) was at the opening, it would be hard to pick up a breech, particularly on a first time mom who was probably exhausted, in pain, and tense with exam.  Then, once the Pitocin was started, Jill no doubt went back to her 'no vaginal exams until I need to push' ways.  Chances are, she refused to be examined for hours and hours and, then, when she finally agreed to an exam, she was dilated enough that it was obvious the kid was butt first.  It would not be routine to order an ultrasound on a laboring patient unless one suspected the baby wasn't headfirst, so it probably didn't happen until right before the cesarean.  Remember, too, Jill made the ridiculous remark that maybe the baby could be turned at that point; indicating she had no idea what she was talking about.  This kind of stuff is what happens when folks think they know more than the pros.

 

That's our Jill, 'Often in error, never in doubt'.

Edited by doodlebug
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I was horrified when I read that Jill has changed 10,000 diapers. Was that the number? I have had 3 kids and I didn't even come close

That's because Jill and Jana are the two eldest sister-mothers and had to raise 17 kids while their parents traveled all over the place attending conferences for their cult. I can understand why Jill jumped at the opportunity to get out of the house even if it meant marrying a doofus like Derick.

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Performing an exam on a patient without their consent is assault.  As far as an ultrasound goes, that's an exam, too.  I would hope the doctor performed a vaginal exam prior to ordering Pitocin, but, if she refused or insisted that her midwife be the only one to examine her or some such baloney, it could've been deferred. I suspect also that, despite her insistence that she'd been in labor for days, she probably wasn't very far along.  If she was only dilated a centimeter or two and if the baby was butt first and the sacrum (tailbone) was at the opening, it would be hard to pick up a breech, particularly on a first time mom who was probably exhausted, in pain, and tense with exam.  Then, once the Pitocin was started, Jill no doubt went back to her 'no vaginal exams until I need to push' ways.  Chances are, she refused to be examined for hours and hours and, then, when she finally agreed to an exam, she was dilated enough that it was obvious the kid was butt first.  It would not be routine to order an ultrasound on a laboring patient unless one suspected the baby wasn't headfirst, so it probably didn't happen until right before the cesarean.  Remember, too, Jill made the ridiculous remark that maybe the baby could be turned at that point; indicating she had no idea what she was talking about.  This kind of stuff is what happens when folks think they know more than the pros.

 

That's our Jill, 'Often in error, never in doubt'.

Yes I understand you can't force anyone to get an exam does that put your license in jeopardy? Can you suggest that a vag check is of upmost importance? Just want to understand why Jill was so stubborn.

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Three pages and no one mentioned my favorite Derick quote EVER?!!???

"I think Jill would enjoy a man shower. I'm sure she'd come!"

I can't believe I missed it, lol.

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