S30.E11: Survivor Russian Roulette

[Brookside]

If they don't want to end up with a Final Three of goats, then Mike, Tyler and Rodney should get together and decide to work together (with Carolyn as #4).  I detest Rodney but at least he's playing the game.  The three of them should agree to actually have a final 3 of people who have some clue and make it a real contest.  Would they rather see Dan, Will or Sierra win or have a shot at the million?

[kikaha]

I hear what you are saying, kikaha.  I hope you don't mind, but I think there was a lot of pure malice in that scene.

 

pennben, I don't mind at all.  You have lots of interesting ideas.  I enjoy reading your thoughts. 

[pennben]

Thanks.  Sometimes I have so much rage after these episodes I can't tell if it is just me.  Play on!

[backformore]

I am annoyed by Dan every time his opens his mouth.   I'm glad to read everyone else is as well.   There is something about him - the way he says EVERY   WORD   AS   THOUGH    IT  WAS  AN IMPORTANT PRONOUNCEMENT   - drives me up a wall.  There's no variation, he truly thinks that everything he says carries weight.   He is arrogant, bombastic, over-estimates his own intellect.  In his mind, he is always the smartest one in the room, (or on the island) and everything he says is of the utmost importance, everyone MUST listen.  

 

Imagine him at a restaurant -   "I'm going to tell you something.  You can take it or leave it.  (Dramatic pause)   Order.    the.    steak . (nodding, stroking beard)  The reason you should order the steak is -   that if you don't, (pause)  you're a fool. A FOOL.  (bugging eyes out for emphasis)   An absolute FOOL.   Some people order the fish - they're idiots!   Anyone who thinks that FISH is better than STEAK!!   IDIOTS!  I mean really!!!!   What are they thinking??  Bottom line - you can't go wrong with steak."  

[kitty55]

I'm not Chinese, but 2015 is the year of the goat ;-)

[mertensia]

It really irks me that pawing through someone else's stuff is ok. I don't care if it is Dan whose stuff got snooped through- I think a "hands off" bag is something they need to start with.

I want something really loony for Immunity Challenges like "the idol goes to the first person who can name 3 famous Nicaraguans " or "what is the scientific name of the howler monkey?" Endurance gets boring.

[Wings]

I am annoyed by Dan every time his opens his mouth.   I'm glad to read everyone else is as well.   There is something about him - the way he says EVERY   WORD   AS   THOUGH    IT  WAS  AN IMPORTANT PRONOUNCEMENT   - drives me up a wall.  There's no variation, he truly thinks that everything he says carries weight.   He is arrogant, bombastic, over-estimates his own intellect.  In his mind, he is always the smartest one in the room, (or on the island) and everything he says is of the utmost importance, everyone MUST listen.  

 

Imagine him at a restaurant -   "I'm going to tell you something.  You can take it or leave it.  (Dramatic pause)   Order.    the.    steak . (nodding, stroking beard)  The reason you should order the steak is -   that if you don't, (pause)  you're a fool. A FOOL.  (bugging eyes out for emphasis)   An absolute FOOL.   Some people order the fish - they're idiots!   Anyone who thinks that FISH is better than STEAK!!   IDIOTS!  I mean really!!!!   What are they thinking??  Bottom line - you can't go wrong with steak."  

 

 

Yes, you nailed him.  

[himela]

(Commenting while watching the episode)

So in Dan's mind if someone calls you names you have the right to personally attack them (verbally and maybe physically?) rather than try and explain yourself in a civilized way. Yeah, right. Dan is back to the place he used to be; a stupid manipulative asshole who thinks he is smart and thinks his way of thinking is the correct one. No Dan. When someone verbally assaults a woman who also has a violence history you just protect her, plain and simple. You don't call it karma or sick justice. You just protect and defend her. Period.

Still too many things missing from the editing. What happened after the tribal? Did anyone actually confront Will about his shitty behavior? Did anyone ask Dan or even wonder what the advantage he won at the auction was? I think this is the first time in 30 seasons that the editing leaves so many things out. What I always mostly enjoyed in an episode was the comments after the tribal council and I don't get it at all anymore. Do we only watch when people are fighting or kissing? Can't we watch a normal conversation that will make us understand everyone's point of view better? I don't remember hearing Carolyn, Sierra or Tyler for weeks now.

The way Mike chose to play on the reward challenge shows how much passion he has for winning and sometimes he overestimates his strength to do it. Why not take the safer way and risk falling from the barrels every second? He wants to be a hero, whatever he does for himself and his team will be used if he goes to the final tribal council. “I found the way to give it all I had and win for my team”. “I followed Joe and I found the HII instead of him”. “I never slept so I overheard you scheming about me” and so on.

I still don't understand what was the turning point on Mike's game and suddenly he is perceived so negatively even by people who used to adore him like Dan and Sierra. Dan saying they won the reward cause there was no Mike comes as a surprise to me. I get that Mike trying to win the advantage at the auction and then yelling at everyone was a weak moment from his part but was that enough for people to totally turn on him? Or were they maybe expecting for an opportunity to do so? Mike freaking brought the blue collars to the position they are now, how can they betray them so easily without even giving him the right to defend himself? We still miss some pieces of the puzzle and I am afraid we will never get the whole picture.

Finally I see some tactics talking from Carolyn and Tyler. I'm surprised that Tyler and Carolyn are in such a good place right now. I'm sure that if Mike played a softer and cooler game the blue collars would have remained a solid alliance, but Mike has made it clear that he is there to win and he is a huge threat. Dan is playing kinda smarter by going with the flow and just adjusting to changes without getting paranoid. Mike would have won the game if he had played in the first seasons of Survivor without hidden immunity idols or unexpected twists, just like Yul or Toni won. I bet that not even Boston Rob could win the last seasons cause twists are there and everything can change so easily. Strong players don't win anymore. In the final three we see mediocre players with floaters, and the mediocre one wins. That's at least the impression I have. Strong and passionate players are voted out way early.

I didn't appreciate the whole Dan encouraging Rodney to beat Mike in the immunity challenge at all. Dan forgets he is there cause of Mike. He forgets that Mike could be in the jury and convince everyone not to vote for Dan in case he gets voted out. Dan is a mean and ungrateful person.

What would happen if Mike gave his HII to Shirin and vote Rodney or Dan out? Wouldn't it be the sweetest revenge? I'd kill to see Rodney's head for right and left in despair and disbelief. It would be the greatest moment in the whole season.
Ok now I got that Dan's advantage of the second vote is valid till the end of the game. I thought it was for only last tribal council. That was not clear.

Oh wow, that was an interesting tribal council! Smart move by Mike to shake things up and he did, cause two people from the “strong six” voted for Dan. Tyler and Will made a mistake to vote for Dan cause now Dan knows he is on the bottom. Will should have still voted for Shirin and the worst thing that would have happened would be that Tyler would go home. I was surprised at Sierra who could have taken advantage of all this to vote out Tyler. I don't know what these people have in their minds anymore. She gets the perfect opportunity and she still sticks to the six.

Good episode, I start to really like it.

[ProfCrash]

The Blue Collars turned on Mike because they know he will win.

The Mike hate displayed by Rodney is because Mike out maneuvered him with the Joaquin vote. Rodney didn't like losing his Bro. It really isn't that different from Natalie last season except Natalie is not a raging angry monster so she sucked John in and made him her ally and then chopped off his head.

The Mike hate displayed by Dan is because Dan has to have some justified reason for stabbing his number one ally in the back. Mike was evil when he thought about not taking the letter. Mike ruined the moment when he announced that R,T,W,C were in an alliance during the letter reading time. Mike displayed he had a better grasp of the game the Dan. Therefore Mike is an awful human being and Dan is justified in hating Mike and stabbing him in the back.

[millennium]

Wow, that was a hell of a bluff from Mike.  I wish he had actually played the idol for Shirin, though I understand completely why he didn't.  But damn, what a play.

 

I thought it was transparent as hell.  No way was Mike going to use his immunity idol on Shirin.  He already showed his true colors at the auction.  He lies.   No one should ever believe a word he says.  

 

 

I can sum up the unlikeable in three words: Dan, Will, Rodney. 

 

I prefer all three to Mike.    They may be jackasses but they're genuine jackasses.   Mike's just a liar and a sneak.

[ProfCrash]

Tyler believed him enough to put a vote on Dan.

 

Mike is playing the game. He was paranoid but for good reason. He played it wrong when he found out about the four but he knew he was being targeted. Lying and sneaking are part of the game. I have no problem with that. Mike's lying and sneaking are hardly the most hard core lying and sneaking that we have seen in this game. And he has kept the focus that the game is a game. He had a few bad moments early in the season but seems to have moved from a personal play on the game.

 

Dan and Will have played a lousy game. Will had mainly been under the radar but then had that massive blow up which made him from tolerable non-goat to a pretty bad human. Dan has played a game as bad as Shirin's, the difference is that Dan was in the majority alliance so he will go farther. His words have cost him jury votes. His inability to do math or except the fact that he is at the bottom of the alliance of six hurt him badly. He turned on his one trustworthy alliance because he almost didn't buy a letter.

 

Rodney has played a better game. Allying with Joaquin and Tyler at the swap, shuffling his alliance when Kelly was voted out, keeping his group of four strong, picking his moment to target Mike. But he has played a pretty poor social game. He has blow ups that are impressive in how loud they are and how awful the words coming out if his mouth are. He seems to have softer moments. Based on interviews I would say he seems like a more rough Tony. I can see Rodney winning but I won't be happy with it. He has made very sexist remarks and seems to enjoy when he is an asshole. He has threatened to beat people up in his talking heads. He is a meat head and I simply cannot root for someone whose world view is so closed and out dated.

[JudyObscure]

Is there a term "misogyn-splaining?" Because they need to invent one just for Dan. I've never quite witnessed something quite so offensive as his bizarre combination of condescending to women as if they're small children with grotesque hatred of women as some kind of mysterious "other" where you must learn their strange and foreign ways. The utter contempt that just drips off him as he talks to a woman -- any woman -- with every "I understand what you're saying" and "I agree with you." It can only be described as...supercilious baby talk.

 

Congratulations, Dan. You took that Worst Human Being EVER award back from Will this week, with all the ease of Mike continuing to win immunity.

Well said. Now that I know he's a mechanic for the Post Office, I just know he has to misogyny-splain to all the women carriers, "You don't know how to drive! That's why your clutch went out, because you're an idiot, plus here's how you work a turn signal you stupid bitch and believe it or not I'm just trying to help you." Shudder.

I agree with those above who say Shirin throws around "stupid," too much when talking about other people and I'll add that she throws around "smart," too much when talking about herself, but I would still think she would make a fun friend and I imagine she is extremely loyal to the ones she has.

I thought the IC was a good test of muscles vs grit with grit winning. It's too bad Carolyn is the Queen of Smug because she is just the sort of older, fit woman I usually like to root for and be inspired by.

[cooker30]

So much to say, so little time at the moment. I did want to say that I've actually liked Jeff at TC the past 2 eps. I think he brought the Will thing up again because he was stunned by it last week and couldn't get all of his thoughts together at the time. And I loved his question back to Dan about having domestic violence in his past followed by pointing out the obvious to him. I really want to know what he would have said to Dan if he could flat out speak his mind instead of having to be in host mode.

[phlebas]

I think you guys aren't fully appreciating Dan for all his hard work.  He is at the friggin' VANGUARD in the fight for white men to have the right to not listen to women complaining just because they sometimes get slapped around or used as something for men to rub on.  We shall overcome, Dan!

 

(Jerk.)

[TaraS1]

Sierra's eyebrows are a mystery for the ages.  I have to try and come to terms with the fact that I will never understand what is happening with them.

[ghoulina]

I'm really glad that what happened last week was re-addressed at tribal. I'm glad Shirin got to point out how vile Will was, when she was not in an emotional state. And I liked how she called everyone out for just acting like it was no big deal (minus Mike and the departed Jenn). I get that it's a game and you don't want to ruffle feathers. But damn, someone could have deescalated Will without looking like they were "siding" with Shirin. I know *I* could never sit there and let someone be attacked like that, no matter who I was aligned with. 

 

Most of these people just suck so badly. Dan with his - "Will crossed the line, but Shirin is a drama queen and loves to play the victim". Okay, I haven't really seen that, but be that as it may - she WAS the victim when Will went after her like that, and HE was the one bringing the drama. I get why he felt indignant. But he could have addressed the issue of the cooler and his integrity without getting into her personal life. That tirade of his had nothing to do with the game, so I'm glad she was able to point that out yet again. 

 

And then we have Dan comparing his background with hers because he was adopted? What in the ever loving fuck?? I almost fell off of my seat when he said that. I hope his adoptive parents aren't watching. How nice to have your selfless act put in league with abuse. I appreciated Jeff pointing out that there WAS no comparison there. 

 

LOVED Mike at TC. On the one hand, I really hoped he would save Shirin, because she was one of the few people left that I like and I really don't want to watch an end game full of unlikable people. But I had that gut feeling he was bluffing. And, on the other hand, I'm glad Mike still has another safe week, plus he was able to expose chinks in the big alliance and stir up some paranoia. So that was great. 

 

Shirin left like a champ. So happy to have her torch snuffed out, because that's a big part of the game. I bet they'll have a nice time at Ponderosa. I'm going to laugh my ass, thinking of who will have to walk in there next - with NC and Shirin. I hope it's Will. Then maybe HE will have no friends and feel like a loser. Or Carolyn and her smug self. That would be awesome. 

[ghoulina]

I was surprised at Sierra who could have taken advantage of all this to vote out Tyler. I don't know what these people have in their minds anymore. She gets the perfect opportunity and she still sticks to the six.

 

She has continually showed that she is thinking ahead in the game, and knows what needs to be done, but she is too scared to do it. Survivor won't be won by the timid, Sierra. She and Dan were warned that they're at the bottom of their alliance. They should have done something about it while they still had the opportunity for numbers from the other side. 

[Primetimer]

Two outsiders try (and try, and try, and try) to make inroads with the majority alliance.

Read the story

[Turtle]

I think it's interesting that Will was the only one besides Tyler who didn't vote for Shirin. Sure, Mike was bluffing about playing the ISO, but what if he hadn't been? Does that mean the rest of the alliance was willing to let Tyler go if Mike *did* play the idol? It seems to me a big risk to take, and if I were Tyler, I'd be a pissed that even my closest alliance member (Carolyn) was perfectly willing to take that risk. Even if it was easy to guess Mike was bluffing, there was no way to be sure. Desperate people do desperate things, as evidenced by Tyler voting for Dan. (I assume Will voted for Dan because he believed the bluff. Or maybe he saw Dan talking to Shirin earlier and so now hates him. Who knows.)

ETA: ISO is a very strange autocorrect for HII.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Turtle

[BusyOctober]

I don't like Dan. At ALL.  However I wouldn't put him in the Top 5 of Most Vile Players.  At the end of the day, I think he's a big galoot with very little social skill and no self-awareness.  I think he's never been part of the Kool Kids, and now he's on TV, on his favorite show and people are (probably for the first time) listening to him!  He's part of the "popular" group!  He can finally impart all his years of wisdom and life experience that no else ever appreciated!  He's found Shangri-La & Nirvana!  Unfortunately due to his lack of social savvy, Dan doesn't see that his co-Survivors are "listening" to him because a) they get the social aspect is part of the game strategy, b) they need his Goat Vote to move ahead, so they will smile & nod all the live long day until they don't need him & c) they are trapped on a fucking island with this guy.  I doubt if this were a regular vacation resort if any of those people would be clamoring for a chance to hang with Dan the Man.  It almost  makes me feel a tiny bit sorry for him.  Almost.  His Guinness Book-worthy entries of Worst Apologist Ever keeps the scales from tipping to "pity".

 

And speaking of pity- what the hell does being adopted have to do with Shirin's experience??  I understand not all adoptions turn out like "Annie", but unless Dan's pre- or post-adoptive childhood was more akin to "Oliver Twist", then "Please, Sir? May you have some more STFU."

 

(my apologies to Mr. Dickens)

[ellie2205]

I know that he [Dan] keeps saying he won't flip, but technically hasn't he already flipped from the BC alliance to the bottom  of the Rodney (who had already flipped)/Carolyn/Tyler/Will alliance?  Granted, he doesn't seem to know that that is what he and Sierra did, but that's how I see what they did.

 

I think in Dan's mind, they had a "strong 7" alliance of Carolyn, Tyler, Will, Rodney, Mike, Dan, and Sierra who were going to vote out Hali, Joe, Jenn, and Shirin before turning on each other.  The first 4 had a secret final 4 alliance within the strong 7.  When Mike tried to expose the alliance of 4, Carolyn, Tyler, and Rodney accused Mike of "flipping" and tried to ostracize him in order to cover their asses.  For some reason, Dan (and maybe Sierra) believed them.  So apparently Dan thought Mike had "flipped" because he was trying to mess with the original strong 7 before they were down to 7 (where Mike was really trying to break up the alliance of 4).

Of course, in this episode we got confirmation that Dan is a terrible player because Tyler had that confessional along the lines of, "Dan just doesn't get it.  Mike was right."  In case anyone was still wondering if Dan was bad at strategy.

 

I actually liked this episode!  I don't fully understand all the hate-watching.  Oh, I still strongly dislike all the people involved (except maaaaybe Mike) and don't particularly want any of them to win, but I guess I've come to terms that one of them have to win so, oh well.

 

In the first couple scenes where Dan is apologizing to Shirin in person, but then confessionalizing a bunch of bad stuff about her including that she's two-faced:

My husband: How ironic that Dan is calling Shirin two-faced.  Look at what he's saying to her face and then to the camera.

Me (thinking about all the discussions about editing): Well, maybe they showed the scenes in the wrong order, or they asked him some specific questions that led him to say that ...

My husband: Uh, I don't think it matters what order they show it in.  It matters how many faces Dan has.  And the answer is at least two.

Me: Good point.

 

Finally, Mike in this episode.  Reward challenge strategy: awful, and to me illustrated why Mike has been an ineffective leader this season.  He takes the lead but doesn't accept any input from others (that we see), exhausts himself, and doesn't change strategies when his is clearly wrong (I don't count the random barrel-rolling at the end as a valid change of strategy. And also, that seemed like a pretty pointless suggestion from Sierra since all 4 of them would have had to make it to the end).

 

On the other hand, Mike's Tribal Council strategy: brilliant!!  I don't think it was ever about actually saving Shirin -- even if he had, it is doubtful he would've had the numbers next week to feel safe (just not enough people left who would be willing in any universe to play on Shirin's side, as far as I could tell), and he only has two TC's left to play the hidden immunity idol so may as well keep it for himself.  To me it looked like the strategy was solely to try and throw a wrench into the so-called "strong 6" alliance.  And it worked out great -- Dan was one of the best possible recipients for those stray votes, since I think he'll have the most paranoid response (well, I guess Rodney would've had a pretty paranoid response too).  In my view Tyler panicked and made a really bad move, and I hope it comes back to bite him in the butt.  (On the other hand, I would like to imagine that if I had been in Tyler's place, I could've stayed calm, assumed Mike wouldn't really play the idol for Shirin, and voted for her anyway ... but that's probably giving myself too much credit.)

[BigRedCheese]

"they need his Goat Vote to move ahead, so they will smile & nod all the live long day until they don't need him"

 

They're smiling and nodding at him in the same phony way he did with Sierra, I am enjoying that.

[pamplemousse]

I'm gonna do a quick run-down of who is left:

 

Sierra: Beyond useless. Enough with your talking heads trying to make it sound like you know how to play this game, you haven't done shit and you're just sitting there waiting to get picked off. And your eyebrow caterpillars are about to crawl off your face because even they don't want to be here to witness your continued lack of trying.

 

Dan: Biggest POS ever. And dumbest too. Way to make everything all about you and your boo-effing-hoo adopted ass. The only way everything is gonna ever be all about you is when your alliance, of which you are at the bottom, turns and votes you off.

 

Rodney: Unmitigated asshole. And slow as mud squelching through a cheesecloth. Rodney Planet doesn't in any way resemble Earth and contains no logic or reality -- it's just a cratered mass of vein-popping, English language-murdering (it's COLLECTED, not COLLECTIVE, you dipshit), beady eye-squinting, spit-flying garbled nonsense.

 

Will: Flipped again and voted Dan. And yet still full of righteous indignation that people would question your honesty. Ummm hmmm, okay...you're too much of a mind-numbing waste of space for me to even continue having an opinion about.

 

Tattletale Tyler: Smug creephole. I hope you caught some nasty flesh-eating disease from rooting around in Disgusting Dan's bag.

 

Shirin: "Sit there and look pretty," and priceless facial expressions at TC, and how you stood up for yourself against the Axis of Stupidity. You've already won in my book.

 

Mike: Don't disappoint me now, you've got to win or at least go out all guns blazing taking a whole bunch of the HurrDurr Six down with you along the way.

 

Halie, Jenn, Joe: Best-looking jury we've had in a long time. Loved Joe's look of poathing (pity + loathing) towards the Axis of Stupidity during TC.

 

To be honest, I just want a farting gas-laden meteor from Planet Rodney to crash down on 'Meridumb and destroy it and everyone on it while Mike is off somewhere else probably looking for another HII. This season is pretty much a complete wash.

 

ETA: I forgot Carolyn. That speaks for her 'gameplay' and for itself, I think.

Edited April 30, 2015 by pamplemousse

[sigmaforce86]

I thought Mike's only reason for the idol bluff was to trick at least some of them into voting for someone else so if it worked he had Shirin on his side and if it didn't work he had a pretty good idea that Dan would get votes which he can try and use to open Dan's eyes to his position in that alliance (bottom) and get him to flip.  Maybe giving him to much credit but that's what it seemed like he was going for.

 

Rodney could be a considered a good player but he grates because he thinks he deserves everything, He basically started the game thinking he was at the top and the rest of them should kiss his ass just for allowing them to play in his game.  Whether he makes no move a bad move or a good move the ego never changes. Makes me want to see him go down just for that.

 

 

I want something really loony for Immunity Challenges like "the idol goes to the first person who can name 3 famous Nicaraguans " or "what is the scientific name of the howler monkey?" Endurance gets boring.

 

What do you mean an African or European howler monkey?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Boilergal]

Am I the only one that thought it was strange that Mike's bar in the IC didn't move an inch? 

 

Loathe Shirin and her "I'm a victim"  guess what sweetie - there are a lot of victims in the world - but you will NEVER know it because they keep that to themselves.  Unless, of course, they are using it to manipulate others to get what they want or for some sympathy.

 

Knew there was no way Mike was using the HII on Shirin, he's too selfish.  Glad that everyone knows he has it now.

 

Feel sorry for the folks at the Ponderosa - hope they have earplugs.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Boilergal

[dolphincorn]

 

I actually liked this episode!  I don't fully understand all the hate-watching.  Oh, I still strongly dislike all the people involved (except maaaaybe Mike) and don't particularly want any of them to win, but I guess I've come to terms that one of them have to win so, oh well.

 

I don't understand hate watching, either. And I'm actually enjoying this season immensely.

 

I've auditioned for Big Brother Canada a couple of times claiming that my strategy would be to ensure that the goats go out early so that I can save the show for both the fans and for the players who actually show up every episode. It would please me if we got a final three of non-deserving goats and the most bitter jury ever. It could be a wake up call to the type of people who believe that this is the only strategy available to win a competitive reality show.

 

Loathe Shirin and her "I'm a victim"  guess what sweetie - there are a lot of victims in the world - but you will NEVER know it because they keep that to themselves.  Unless, of course, they are using it to manipulate others to get what they want or for some sympathy.

 

Dan, is that you?

 

[pamplemousse]

So Shirin using the word 'stupid' a lot makes her some sort of ugly person that deserves what she got on that island or is ample reason for how Will, Dan, Rodney, hell everyone treated her? That makes all of it understandable? Say what? That is classic bully logic, wtf. Ughhhhh, I can't even with that.

[helent]

I am annoyed by Dan every time his opens his mouth.   I'm glad to read everyone else is as well.   There is something about him - the way he says EVERY   WORD   AS   THOUGH    IT  WAS  AN IMPORTANT PRONOUNCEMENT   - drives me up a wall.  There's no variation, he truly thinks that everything he says carries weight.   He is arrogant, bombastic, over-estimates his own intellect.  In his mind, he is always the smartest one in the room, (or on the island) and everything he says is of the utmost importance, everyone MUST listen.  

 

Imagine him at a restaurant -   "I'm going to tell you something.  You can take it or leave it.  (Dramatic pause)   Order.    the.    steak . (nodding, stroking beard)  The reason you should order the steak is -   that if you don't, (pause)  you're a fool. A FOOL.  (bugging eyes out for emphasis)   An absolute FOOL.   Some people order the fish - they're idiots!   Anyone who thinks that FISH is better than STEAK!!   IDIOTS!  I mean really!!!!   What are they thinking??  Bottom line - you can't go wrong with steak."  

Then when you're away from the table.

 

"I tried to tell her to order the steak, but women always order fish. You tell them they're wrong, but they don't listen! Women, amirite?!"

[JudyObscure]

Sierra's eyebrows are a mystery for the ages. I have to try and come to terms with the fact that I will never understand what is happening with them.

Because you and I are interested in this and Dan wouldn't be: I think Sierra didn't like her blond bushy eyebrows that looked kind of like Andy Rooney's did, so she shaved them completely off and had a dark lines of "eyebrows" tattooed on. She probably liked that look and kept her real ones shaved but then she went on Survivor and the old bushy blonds grew back and now they look like centipedes. Tiny flaws like this in otherwise gorgeous girls make me like them better. Bless her heart.

ETA No one said Shirin calling people "stupid" justified her treatment. We're just mentioning a habit she has that she would be wise to break. Do people have to be perfect before we can like and defend them?

 

 

Loathe Shirin and her "I'm a victim" guess what sweetie - there are a lot of victims in the world - but you will NEVER know it because they keep that to themselves. Unless, of course, they are using it to manipulate others to get what they want or for some sympathy.

When did being a victim become a bad thing, something to hide or be ashamed of? Every crime has a perpetrator and a victim and the perpetrator is the bad one. There's nothing wrong with telling people that you were once the victim of abuse or mistreatment or a crime. It doesn't mean manipulation it means, this is my history.

Edited April 30, 2015 by JudyObscure

[peachmangosteen]

Mike is #1 but still kind of sucks, everyone else is awful.  Tyler's probably going to win.  Meh.

 

This about sums it up. Oh yea, Jeff, best cast ever! Great season! Maybe he actually was using 'jump the shark' right because I will say this season is close to jumping the shark.

 

Yeah, I will be glad to move on from the Shirin hate.  They will have to choose someone else.  Their bonding was focused on a shared enemy.  It will be interesting to see who replaces her.

 

Oh yea, how interesting and exciting it will be to see who a bunch of sexist, smug dicks (Carolyn included) decide to emotionally abuse next.

 

The only person worth rooting for is Mike, except 1. He's only guaranteed to make it past the next TC minimum, and 2. He's a borderline Section 8. I mean, better him winning than Tyler (awesome snark on him by Shirin, BTW) or the others, but it would be like Fabio/Jud winning . . .  he won because somebody had to. Right now, I'd rather sit with Jenn and Shirin in the jury, wearing "MEAN PEOPLE SUCK" t-shirts than play with these assholes.

 

This. If I was in this season I would've just got up and walked out with Shirin so I could have fun with those 4 at Ponderosa rather than spend any more time with 6 assholes and Mike.

 

Good thing for CBS that I hate myself, so I'll keep watching.

 

LMAO. So true. 

 

I get the impression Tyler and Carolyn are in a tight two alliance, and using the blue collars to help them get to the end. Then screw them. Which.... isn't very smart of the white collars to think they can then get their votes. I hope Tyler and Carolyn get blindesided, hard.

 

The #1 thing I wanna see is Tyler and Carolyn's boots. I've hated them since day one and I still hate them. And the fact is that Dan and Will have no chance of winning this game, so I am fine with them being dragged to F3 and then getting absolutely eviscerated by Jenn, Shirin, and Hali. Actually, I want that to happen. It might save the season for me.

 

I swear, Dan doesn't like Shirin because she has all the storylines Dan wanted.

 

LOL. I think you hit the nail on the head there.

 

A little tip for Shirin: when you're trying to sway people to support you, you might have better results if you don't start with "You are completely stupid if you do the thing you're planning to do." She was right, but that's not a great opening line.

 

I can cut Shirin slack on that because apparently her, Jenn, and Hali tried and tried and tried and no one would budge, so I can see getting frustrated by everyone's stupidity and just trying to use facts, no matter how rude they are, to wake people up.

 

Also confused about why everyone thinks Tyler is this masterful strategizing and is almost guaranteed to win.

 

Same. Tyler is invisible. What have we seen him do besides luck into getting into the majority alliance by riding Carolyn's coattails, tattle tale at every opportunity, win 1 IC, steal someone's bag, and dumbly give Mike the entire HII clue? Like I honestly do not see Tyler as playing a good game. He's playing an OK game. He's playing better than Mike, Dan, Will, and Sierra, but that's not saying much. I think Carolyn deserves a great deal of the credit for Tyler even still being here. And he honestly seems to defer to her in a lot of ways. I'd vote for Carolyn over him and I despise her smug ass. 

 

Can the rest of the season be 10 minutes of challenges and 30 minutes of reaction shots of the jury?

I think the rest of the eps should just be 50 minutes of Ponderosa footage and then the TC.

 

There were way too many close-up shots of Sierra's deeply unfortunate eyebrows in this episode.

Edited April 30, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[helent]

And speaking of pity- what the hell does being adopted have to do with Shirin's experience??  I understand not all adoptions turn out like "Annie", but unless Dan's pre- or post-adoptive childhood was more akin to "Oliver Twist", then "Please, Sir? May you have some more STFU."

 

(my apologies to Mr. Dickens)

Not that I want to be in the position of trying to justify Dan's remarks, but my read on that was that he was trying to say that he also didn't have any blood relatives.

 

It's still a totally nonsensical and insensitive comparison, and the slightest bit of thinking before speaking would have shown it was better to keep quiet.

[Alapaki]

That's what's confused me. I thought from Dan and Sierra's POV, the alliance was Blue Strong with using Carolyn/Tyler/Will to final 7. How are Dan and Sierra not flipping on Mike to vote with Rodney and the rest against him? 

 

I actually feel for Sierra. I don't think she's playing badly. I think she's been trapped where every time she tries to flip to an alliance she thinks is better, the numbers don't pan out for her to actually do it. It would be stupid for her to do it for the sake of doing it.

 

I don't think Mike's move was horrible tonight, but I'm unconvinced that it was better to bluff than to actually use the HII to protect Shirin. 

 

 

I think in Dan's mind, they had a "strong 7" alliance of Carolyn, Tyler, Will, Rodney, Mike, Dan, and Sierra who were going to vote out Hali, Joe, Jenn, and Shirin before turning on each other.  The first 4 had a secret final 4 alliance within the strong 7.  When Mike tried to expose the alliance of 4, Carolyn, Tyler, and Rodney accused Mike of "flipping" and tried to ostracize him in order to cover their asses.  For some reason, Dan (and maybe Sierra) believed them.  So apparently Dan thought Mike had "flipped" because he was trying to mess with the original strong 7 before they were down to 7 (where Mike was really trying to break up the alliance of 4).

Of course, in this episode we got confirmation that Dan is a terrible player because Tyler had that confessional along the lines of, "Dan just doesn't get it.  Mike was right."  In case anyone was still wondering if Dan was bad at strategy.

 

Here's how I recall it (with an assist from Wikipedia):

 

They go to the merge with 5 BC/4 NC/3 WC, however, at that point Shirin was pretty clearly with the NCs, so it was for all practical purposes 5 BC/ 5 NC/2 WC.

 

Most of the BCs tried to woo Carolyn/Tyler with the argument that Jenn/Hali/Joe might be a threat to win.  Rodney tried to woo them (along with Will) by offering a secret F4 alliance that would reveal itself only after the NCs were eliminated, at which time they'd knock off rest of the BCs.  While the wooing was successful, the plan failed because Jenn played her HII and BC-Kelly got sent home.

 

I never saw Dan reach out to make the sort of secret F4 pact with Carolyn/Tyler/Will that Rodney did.  Yet on the Reward Challenge Boat he was talking as though he had?

 

Still, that left the 3 of the 4 BCs thinking they had a solid 4 alliance, with Carolyn/Tyler/Will kept around to knock off Joe/Hali/Shirin, at which point they'd knock off Carolyn/Tyler/Will (or more likely turn on each other after Carolyn/Tyler and try to carry Will to FTC as a goat).  Rodney let the BCs think they had that solid BC-F4, knowing that he also had a secret F4 with Carolyn/Tyler/Will that was going to pick off Mike/Dan/Sierra after Joe/Hali/Shirin were gone.

 

What I can't understand, unless something's been hidden in editing, is why Dan and Sierra didn't take Dan more seriously when he learned of Rodney's secret alliance and told them.  Instead they've treated Mike as the disloyal one rather than Rodney.  

[nutty1]

I think Rodney is becoming so much less loathsome because a)he's too exhausted to be much of an asshole, and b) his assholery is predictable. Unlike Will , whosedisproportionate attack on Shirin came out of nowhere, or Dan, who just tells people they are stupid while he says he is being nice. So, Congratulations Rodney. You don't suck as hard as Dan and Will.

I've gone from kind of disliking Mike to having a Tom Westman level admiration thing for him right now . I hope he wins it and doesn't lose too much more weight.

 

re: the bolded. He seems less loathsome because he has the 2 most loathsome players ever next to him…..Dan and Will!!!

[Guest]

I get the feeling too that Shirin is no stranger to trotting her out abuse story once she's pushed someone too far.  I've defended her a lot but after this episode my radar is saying she's not the innocent she might pretend to be.  I agree with whoever said she's getting the 'Sugar in Gabon' edit.  I'm glad she's out of it because I don't enjoy the editing shenanigans once I feel like I've seen the man behind the curtain enough.  

[BigRedCheese]

"There's nothing wrong with telling people that you were once the victim of abuse or mistreatment or a crime. It doesn't mean manipulation it means, this is my history."

 

Completely agree, but unfortunately there are the Will's of the world that will twist it into a way to further abuse you. I'm hoping Shirin gets invited back for another season, Jenn too.

[ProfCrash]

I am trying to post this for the third time. The site keeps eating my post.

 

OK, so the more I think about Sierra the more I realize that she is playing the only game she can.

 

The women in the Blue Collar tribe were marginalized by Dan and Rodney from day one. Rodney has weird standards for women and gets upset when anyone challenges those standards. Dan managed to piss off Kelly, Sierra, and Lindsey with his behavior when they were building the shelter. Mike was upset people were not working hard enough but in reality was simply ignoring the work the women did while expecting thanks for all the work he was doing. Mike and Dan had bonded over the initial choice to bring back food or get a clue for the hidden idol. Rodney was never going to work with a woman as an equal. Sierra’s closest partner is Lindsey who is out spoken and challenges Rodney. When they lose their first challenge and have to send someone home, they send home Lindsey, This drops Sierra to fifth in her tribe. There is not much she could have done there.

 

The swap happens and Sierra ends up on a tribe with Mike, Dan, and Rodney. Two of the three have attacked her game play, ridiculed her, and basically made her feel like crap. Dan’s apology really does go down as the worst ever on a reality show. Mike is trying to smooth things over but nothing Mike says is going to make Sierra feel like she is in a better place with her original tribe. Sierra ends up having to decide between an alliance of Dan/Mike/Joe and Tyler/Joaquin/Rodney. The two people she dislikes the most from her original tribe are on different alliances. Mike has been decent to her and Joe was friendly. The Rodney/Joaquin bromance has billboards with flashing neon lights screaming “Final two here”. Sierra makes the best move she can at the time and goes with Dan/Mike/Joe. Dan is, at the time, slightly less vile them Rodney and the numbers look really bad if Rodney has moved into a tight alliance with Tyler and Joaquin (which he had). It was the best play Sierra had.

 

Merge happens. There are Five Blue Collar, three White Collar, and four No Collars. Will quickly moves into an alliance with the Blue Collars. Carolyn’s disdain for Shirin is well known to Kelly so the Carolyn to Blue Collar move is not a surprise. Tyler and Carolyn are tight, I believe that is pretty damn clear even early on. So there is an eight person alliance vs four people. Why would Sierra move to the four?

 

So Sierra has to work within the group of 8. There are far too many strong personalities for her to do much else. Dan won’t flip, “Flippers never win.” Rodney won’t work with women. If anyone here thinks that Rodney is working with Carolyn I will have to laugh. Rodney is working with Tyler and Will, Carolyn is along for the ride in his mind. Mama C is just that to Rodney, a surrogate Mama. Rodney was willing to work with Kelly but I think that is the only women he would have worked with. No matter what we saw, Shirin was annoying enough that Carolyn refused to work with her. Sierra is not moving Carolyn to work with Shirin/Jenn/Hali/Joe. That means, Sierra is not moving Tyler. Will has already left the No Collars, how does Sierra bring Will back?

Mike doesn’t see the fractures clearly enough to know he had to move earlier. He was so consumed with Joe as a threat he didn’t see the even bigger threat coming from Rodney and the non Blue Collars.

 

Sierra tried to move to save Hali but she couldn’t because there were no numbers. There were no numbers because Carolyn wouldn’t move which meant Tyler wouldn’t move.

 

So Sierra had no reason to vote for Tyler last night. She would have been the only vote to flip and that doesn’t help her. Mike wasn’t playing the idol, Dan wasn’t flipping his vote.

 

If Sierra ends up in the final she could win. She will probably be the least offensive personality there. She can talk about how she tried to move but couldn’t and outline why she couldn’t. That at least points to her knowing the game and understanding when to move and when not to. She could be a Sandra, anybody but me, but with less of a personality so she was lost in the cast.

[Alapaki]

Am I the only one that thought it was strange that Mike's bar in the IC didn't move an inch?

 

 

I'm not surprised.  Dan and Will are doughy sacks of useless shit.  They can barely hold a conversation, let alone a weighted bag.

 

Rodney is obviously strong, but he's probably taken the biggest hit (energy-wise) from the lack of protein powder and things-that-would-get-you-banned-from-baseball.  Tyler is lean, but I don't see much actual upper body strength there.  By contrast, Mike seemed both lean and strong coming into the came.  so the relative spread between his drop in body weight and loss of strength has probably been the smallest of all the men.

[peachmangosteen]

I mean obviously Sierra's plan is to get to the F3 with Rodney/Dan and she believes she can beat them because they suck. The problems with that plan are that she really has no chance of getting there with them and I think she's probably overestimating her chances against Rodney since he actually made moves and was a leader while she did nothing. That being said, she never had much of a choice. Tyler, Carolyn, and Dan were never willing to break away from Rodney so there really were never the numbers for Sierra to do it. Now, she could've done it right at merge, but I think at that point she (and everyone) was too focused on how big of a threat Joe was to see that she was going to end up screwed if she stuck with BC.

[Alapaki]

He [Rodney] seems less loathsome because he has the 2 most loathsome players ever next to him…..Dan and Will!!!

 

 

I also think that for the most part Rodney's most loathsome comments have come in Confessionals and not directly towards other players.  And I feel like we've gotten less Rodney Confessionals lately (or at least less Confessionals where he's talking about other players, as opposed to talking about himself).

 

OK, so the more I think about Sierra the more I realize that she is playing the only game she can.

 

 

I think this analysis is absolutely correct.  In fact, just last night we heard Sierra say once in a Confessional and once at Tribal Council (which wasn't particularly smart) that the numbers simply aren't there for any flip by her to make a difference.  She'd be hurting her own game without any possibility of it working out.

 

The only scenario in which I'd give Sierra a fighting shot if she were to make it to FTC would be in a F2 against Will.  But then again, I have a feeling that a majority of this jury will be holding their nose and voting for someone at FTC solely because they're not the other people at FTC.

[survivinmt]

I haven't read all the posts yet, so forgive me if I'm stomping all over someone elses post. Wouldn't it have been SO MUCH smarter for Mike to have saved the nearly perfect fake idol that Joe gave him for a night like tonight. I always thought he could have done something more with that since it was so convincing. Imagine he had handed that over to Shirin tonight. And she'd kept it. Really someone else would have gone home, right?

[ghoulina]

I think he's never been part of the Kool Kids, and now he's on TV, on his favorite show and people are (probably for the first time) listening to him!  He's part of the "popular" group!  He can finally impart all his years of wisdom and life experience that no else ever appreciated!

 

You summed up Dan quite nicely here. That's exactly how I see him. He just LOVES being a part of the big alliance, so much so that he refuses to see how short-sighted he's being in sticking with them this far. 

[ellie2205]

OK, so the more I think about Sierra the more I realize that she is playing the only game she can.

...She could be a Sandra, anybody but me, but with less of a personality so she was lost in the cast.

 

I agree as well.  I think Sierra has a shot in an F2 against Will or an F3 against Will and Dan.  In either of those scenarios she'd have the 4 current jury votes, at least.  I'm still not rooting for her to win though, because I dislike the drift-along strategy, yes, even when Sandra played/invented it.  Although I'll admit that's mostly because it makes for less compelling TV, not because it's not a valid strategy.

 

By the way, as dislikable as the editing may have been this season, I think someone managed to make at least 2/4 Pagonging episodes pretty interesting.  And by "someone" I'm referring to both the editors and the players.  Sometimes interesting because it was vile (which is not the kind of interesting I prefer), and sometimes interesting because of some actually strategy (although ... not overly much).  I would prefer the edits stick to interesting strategy, but I wouldn't appreciate it if they edited out the vile parts either.

[hyukx3]

I am so disappointed with Sierra. Dan is just stupid. Love Mike. Mike will be the lone survivor, I feel it. This is probably the Shakespearean turning point. Mike, Sierra, Dan's 2 vote for majority next tribal.

[ghoulina]

The #1 thing I wanna see is Tyler and Carolyn's boots. I've hated them since day one and I still hate them. And the fact is that Dan and Will have no chance of winning this game, so I am fine with them being dragged to F3 and then getting absolutely eviscerated by Jenn, Shirin, and Hali. Actually, I want that to happen. It might save the season for me.

 

Because I cannot stand the people left in this game, save Mike to a degree, and like most of those on the jury at this point - waiting for FTC is really the only think I have left to get excited about. I just want to all the idiots, smug assholes, and vile personalities called out. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by ghoulina

[pamplemousse]

IMO the wrong questions are being asked with regards to Shirin, like what did she do wrong to get everyone to hate her? There must've been something about her that put everyone off? What isn't the editing showing us about her?

 

I think that the situation surrounding Shirin had more to do with the dynamics going on with all the other players. There seems to be a confluence of bully personalities this season -- several people who are bullies in their own special way -- plus a few passive bystanders personalities who stand there and watch it happen. I think Mike is the only personality who doesn't completely fit into this dual dynamic. I think that had Shirin not been there, someone else would've been made the island scapegoat (I'm guessing either Will or Dan, which is why I suspect they go in on Shirin a lot because deep down beneath the many layers of dumb, they realize that had it not been for her, it'd be one of them so better to really rip into her and firmly establish yourself as on the side of the bully majority).

 

From almost the beginning, Shirin was seen as a victim and the bullies honed in on that (bullies have excellent victim radar, especially since many of them may have been bullied before when they were younger so they know all about how bullies pick out their targets). She was seen as weak, they made her a victim, and then they turned around and put the blame on her saying that she enjoyed playing the victim. That's totally bully logic; I only pick on you because you deserve it, you become my victim not because I made you so but because you do it to yourself by always playing the victim. What's happening to you is your fault, something you did, it says little about what's screwed up about me but everything about what's wrong with you. You deserve it, you earned it, and everyone else knows it because they're all wondering what you did to make me and the others pick on you rather than wonder what is wrong with us for being so cruel and nasty to another human being.

 

The way these bullies are comes from their reptilian brain -- what they do is instinctual and ritualistic, I wouldn't be surprised that with the dynamic this season, they find another target now that Shirin is gone.

[cooksdelight]

Am I the only one that thought it was strange that Mike's bar in the IC didn't move an inch? 

It moved, but barely. I noticed sweat dripping from his fingertip. If I am going to be in a challenge that will require me to hold onto a steel bar like that, first think I'd do is coat my hands in sand or dirt. I am wondering if that's what Mike did. I'd have to look at closeups again to see if his hands look dirty or not. The guy just has perseverance like nobody else.

[Special K]

The final IC showdown between Mike and Rodney was a classic example of "show" muscles vs. functional strength.

 

I'm not surprised Mike does CrossFit.  It's apparent.

 

I thought Rodney should have cold-cocked Dan after his bag fell.  I have no doubt that Dan's "encouragement" had the opposite effect.

 

It must be said:  Mike is strong as an ox.  Physically and mentally.  I love that he is sticking it to the bros who laughed as his chosen celibacy earlier like he was less of a man.

 

Anyway, he's my last hope.

 

Is it bad that my worry about who is voted out next is more about who will harsh the groovy vibe at Ponderosa?
 

[Lamb18]

One think Mike and Shirin can do: 1. Decide who they want to vote out. I'd go with Tyler. 2. Mike pretends to repent and wants to rejoin the Blue tribe so he can find out who they'll vote for or to suggest voting for Shirin. (Best case scenario: Dan uses his extra vote) 3. If it looks like the vote is for Shirin, Mike plays his idol for Shirin. All the votes are for Shirin except the two for Tyler. 4. Tyler is voted out. Mike and Shirin still have their alliance. We're down to seven and perhaps Dan & Sierra can join w/Mike and Shirin. If they do a split vote, however, this scenario will not work. The best case scenario is if Mike wins immunity. If Mike wins the reward challenge, he should invite Sierra, Dan and Tyler and work on them. Rodney hates Mike too much, and Carolyn and Will hate Shirin too much, but the other three aren't so invested in hatred.

I posted the above yesterday in the Previews and Speculation thread.  It almost worked. But from Mike's perspective, not giving the idol to Shirin was the best move for him. Another reason why people wouldn't side with him the past couple of episodes is because he was allied with Shirin, and allying with Mike would mean allying with Shirin.  Now that she's gone, Mike might have a better chance of getting his Blue mates back on his side. If he can get Dan and Sierra on his side, they can work to take out the non-Blues, then Rodney.  By saving Rodney for the last, Mike can say he stuck by his Blues to the very end and never cast a Blue vote.  (I don't think he has, either, once the original teams were merged.)

[ElleryAnne]

Am I the only one that thought it was strange that Mike's bar in the IC didn't move an inch?

 

 

It looked like he managed to just get a solid grip and then go into that mental state where he wasn't letting himself move about, while most of the others began wriggling trying to find better positions but causing their grips to slide.  (I was surprised Tyler didn't last longer, because a couple of weeks ago with the tip-toe challenge, I thought he did something similar with the mental focus.)

 

 

I think that had Shirin not been there, someone else would've been made the island scapegoat (I'm guessing either Will or Dan, which is why I suspect they go in on Shirin a lot because deep down beneath the many layers of dumb, they realize that had it not been for her, it'd be one of them so better to really rip into her and firmly establish yourself as on the side of the bully majority).

From almost the beginning, Shirin was seen as a victim and the bullies honed in on that (bullies have excellent victim radar, especially since many of them may have been bullied before when they were younger so they know all about how bullies pick out their targets). She was seen as weak, they made her a victim, and then they turned around and put the blame on her saying that she enjoyed playing the victim. That's totally bully logic; I only pick on you because you deserve it, you become my victim not because I made you so but because you do it to yourself by always playing the victim. What's happening to you is your fault, something you did, it says little about what's screwed up about me but everything about what's wrong with you. You deserve it, you earned it, and everyone else knows it because they're all wondering what you did to make me and the others pick on you rather than wonder what is wrong with us for being so cruel and nasty to another human being.

 

 

Pamplemousse, I think your whole post is absolutely spot-on.

[Eolivet]

I don't like Dan. At ALL.  However I wouldn't put him in the Top 5 of Most Vile Players.  At the end of the day, I think he's a big galoot with very little social skill and no self-awareness.  I think he's never been part of the Kool Kids, and now he's on TV, on his favorite show and people are (probably for the first time) listening to him!  He's part of the "popular" group!  He can finally impart all his years of wisdom and life experience that no else ever appreciated!  He's found Shangri-La & Nirvana!  Unfortunately due to his lack of social savvy, Dan doesn't see that his co-Survivors are "listening" to him because a) they get the social aspect is part of the game strategy, b) they need his Goat Vote to move ahead, so they will smile & nod all the live long day until they don't need him & c) they are trapped on a fucking island with this guy.  I doubt if this were a regular vacation resort if any of those people would be clamoring for a chance to hang with Dan the Man.  It almost  makes me feel a tiny bit sorry for him.  Almost.  His Guinness Book-worthy entries of Worst Apologist Ever keeps the scales from tipping to "pity".

 

I would maybe believe that, except for the fact that all the people to which he feels the need to "impart wisdom" are women. There have been plenty of dumbasses playing the game, who are more than happy to "keep it real" in no uncertain terms to every man, woman, or beast on the B-roll (see: Hantz, Russell -- jerk to all, great and small). Dan has only had his nastiest moments with women. He clearly has an internalized hatred of them that runs so deep, he's convinced himself he really loves them because they're strange and foreign creatures who are in need of his help and counsel. I mean, he has confessionals about how to talk to them, as if they speak a different language. That is...pathological.

 

Dan on a tribe with no women would be one more obnoxious blowhard in a long line of obnoxious blowhards, and I would agree with you he wouldn't make top 5. But his conversations to and about women are filled with so much latent hatred that, to me, absolutely pushes him into top 1 of Worst People Ever on Survivor. Just because he's only kind of a jerk to all the men doesn't make it OK when he treats the women like subhuman objects.

 

It would be like saying "I don't understand what was so bad about Colton -- he was just a difficult character! I mean, other than the overt racism."