Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Normades]

57 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Yes, plus it's the only way to get adult status, especially for women. Jim Bob seems to be an anomaly, keeping his adult sons at home in kidult status. Most of the other prominent cultish Fundies want their sons to be more financially independent than the Duggar males seem to be.

Jim Boob has the luxury of having enough money to keep his kids under his thumb whether they're male or female, married or unmarried.  He loves his control and I think he finds it worthwhile to spend the money keeping control of his brood.  As far as marrying off daughters, Boob was practically salivating over the idea of his daughters' wedding nights.  For Steve Maxwell, I don't think he could stand the thought of some male, no matter how godly and debt free, defiling one of his slaves robots daughters. They're both overly preoccupied with their adult daughters sex lives, just in different ways.  It's so damn creepy!!!

[lianau]

2 hours ago, Nysha said:

Yes, plus it's the only way to get adult status, especially for women. Jim Bob seems to be an anomaly, keeping his adult sons at home in kidult status. Most of the other prominent cultish Fundies want their sons to be more financially independent than the Duggar males seem to be.

But at least he lets them get married . The Arndt family isn't marrying off any of their offspring .

[MamaMax]

1 hour ago, Normades said:

Jim Boob has the luxury of having enough money to keep his kids under his thumb whether they're male or female, married or unmarried.  He loves his control and I think he finds it worthwhile to spend the money keeping control of his brood.  As far as marrying off daughters, Boob was practically salivating over the idea of his daughters' wedding nights.  For Steve Maxwell, I don't think he could stand the thought of some male, no matter how godly and debt free, defiling one of his slaves robots daughters. They're both overly preoccupied with their adult daughters sex lives, just in different ways.  It's so damn creepy!!!

Yes! I was going to comment that most of these families are so poor, they need to get the boys out so they can stop having to feed and clothe them. But JB has his kingdom where his boys are money makers for him, so he wants them there as indentured servants. 

TH\he fundie girls left on the shelf, I would bet the longer you stay there, the harder it is to get off -- all the guys your age are married and now you have to wait for 1. some creepy guy who could never find a bride or 2. a widower who needs someone to raise his kids. I seriously feel bad for these girls who have done everything "right" according to their cult and still haven't been matched with a Godly spouse and eleventy blessings.  You know they sit around wondering where they went wrong. 

[satrunrose]

• I've read some excerpts from some of the stay at home daughter literature (by the Bodkins maybe?) and they right out say that pleasing your father is one of your duties as an adult daughter, up to and including wearing his favourite colour. I can't say I'm surprised that a control freak like Steve Maxwell isn't giving that up.

[PikaScrewChu]

5 hours ago, Barb23 said:

@doodlebug ypu are so right about the dad being in charge of marrying off the daughters especially in the case of the Maxwells. 

In one of the blogs Terry was telling that the family gets up early to have Bible Time.  She said it starts out with each of the daughters & son having a one on one talk with Steve to discuss religion or whatever is on their minds. I find this kind of creepy. It's fine to meet with a parent if that's your choosing  but with the Maxwells, it sounds like the kids dont have a choice.  I wonder if Terry is allowed to join them. 

Terri probably slips away to have a sip of Pepsi while it's all going on.

[Future Cat Lady]

4 hours ago, satrunrose said:

• I've read some excerpts from some of the stay at home daughter literature (by the Bodkins maybe?) and they right out say that pleasing your father is one of your duties as an adult daughter, up to and including wearing his favourite colour. I can't say I'm surprised that a control freak like Steve Maxwell isn't giving that up.

That is so gross. 

[Temperance]

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

You should've seen her before the braces.  The Maxwell girls, particularly Mary, had some scary teeth.  And it is kinda scary that I can recognize her without checking.

The photo on this page is Anna Maxwell. Mary has longer, straighter hair. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Temperance

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Temperance said:

The photo on this page is Anna Maxwell. 

I stand corrected, and a little relieved that I don't know the Maxwells as well as I thought.

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, satrunrose said:

• I've read some excerpts from some of the stay at home daughter literature (by the Bodkins maybe?) and they right out say that pleasing your father is one of your duties as an adult daughter, up to and including wearing his favourite colour. I can't say I'm surprised that a control freak like Steve Maxwell isn't giving that up.

That sounds like the Botkin sisters, they're the poster girls for the Stay-at-Home Daughter movement.  They made a documentary a while back called 'Return of the Daughters' where they discussed how important it was for young women who had finished their schooling to stay home and perfect their womanly homemaking skills rather than enter the working world.  They also wrote a book on the topic and still have a blog selling their books and films as well as promoting the movement.

I believe it was their daddy, creepy Geoffrey Botkin, who used to run a retreat for young women where they were indoctrinated into their responsibility to care for their father.  And, yes, wearing clothing that meets with Daddy's approval is a big part of it.  Hairstyles and makeup are also chosen according to his preferences.  Part of the retreat's activities involved training the daughters to care for their fathers in very creepy, somewhat suggestive, fashion.  Giving Daddy extra special personalized care in the form of shaving him was part of the course.

[ChiCricket]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

  Giving Daddy extra special personalized care in the form of shaving him was part of the course.

Ew

[GeeGolly]

Went down they Lisa Whechel rabbit hole after she was brought up in the Dillard thread. The Botkin sisters, the Maxwell family, JillR, the Bates, the Duggars ... Fundamentalism is defined as unwavering beliefs and literal interpretation of scripture. Yet there still seems to be a large spectrum of Fundyism. 

Who picks what interpretation of scripture to be followed? The Bible touches on so many things and no matter what Fundy's think interpretation is subjective.

What is the defining line between a Super Christian and a Fundamentalist?

[Nysha]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

What is the defining line between a Super Christian and a Fundamentalist?

Super Christians get a red t-shirt with a shiny blue 'C' sewn onto the front?

[Normades]

OMG!  That story about Lisa Welchel marrying a guy she doesn't love was horrible.  That's one of the things that really stinks about fundamentalism.  I doubt any male would be forced into such a situation.  How sad for her and how sad that her children know their mother really didn't have romantic feelings for their father.  I'd love to hear more about what happened if anyone has reading suggestions.  

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Super Christians get a red t-shirt with a shiny blue 'C' sewn onto the front?

[Barb23]

Wow. I just looked at the Botkin sisters website.  I'm going to need some time & a clear head to fully check that one out. Their relationship book is something.  One of the chapters is titled "Why we're interested in boys (and why that's a good thing)"

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Normades said:

OMG!  That story about Lisa Welchel marrying a guy she doesn't love was horrible.  That's one of the things that really stinks about fundamentalism.  I doubt any male would be forced into such a situation.  How sad for her and how sad that her children know their mother really didn't have romantic feelings for their father.  I'd love to hear more about what happened if anyone has reading suggestions.  

Lisa didn't publish that until her marriage was on the rocks, so I would take her account with a grain of salt.  She does say in the article that she was 22 or 23 and felt ready for marriage and motherhood and was looking for a spouse when she joined the prayer group where they were the only two single people.  That makes her protestations that she was forced to marry him ring a little hollow.  Sounds like she made it known that she wanted a nice fundy guy to marry ASAP, and her parents found one and recommended her to his Bible study group.  She was at the very least a willing participant in the matchmaking. She was also financially secure and able to support herself unlike so many other fundy women who don't have any options.  She says her parents really liked the guy and told her so; that was the 'coercion'.  If so, a lot of young women have been similarly 'forced'

Lisa does have something in common with Michelle Duggar, though.  When a loved one is in pain, rather than comfort him, she wants to document it and share it with the world!  Years ago, while they were still married, her hubby fell off the roof while attending to Christmas decorations, breaking both arms and his leg.  While he was on the ground, writhing in pain; Lisa grabbed her camera and took a bunch of photos!  Isn't she fun?  Then, she documented his surgery and hospital stay in detail.  Finally, eager to outdo Michelle in the cruelty sweepstakes, she published a 'humorous' post on her blog entitled 'The Day Daddy Fell of the Roof' complete with 'funny' captions under all the pictures of her husband on the ground, heading to the OR and in traction.  So, if she married a guy she didn't love; she managed to let him and the rest of the world know all about it.  Then again, she bragged about beating her kids, so I think she's not a very nice person.

Why is it that so many of these fundies have a mean streak a mile wide?

[libgirl2]

On 10/27/2018 at 2:46 PM, kokapetl said:

Does she also talk like Gilbert Gottfried?

OMG! She does look like him. 

[Normades]

32 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think she's not a very nice person.

Wow! That was enlightening!  You're right that she definitely had choices since she was actually an adult and had the means to support herself unlike so many of these young girls (and boys).  I had no idea what she was like.  I did think her story about not being attracted to the man, but marrying and having children with him seemed a bit cruel.  She made sure to let the reader know that although she was not attracted to him, he was DEFINITELY attracted to her (how could he not be!).  I did cringe about their engagement being announced without her consent, but now I'm wondering if that's even true.  It seems she's engaging in revisionist history.  Well, now we've found one way the idea of giving women little to no choice comes in handy for a select few.  It absolves them of any responsibility when things go wrong.  She sure paints a picture of being the poor virginal, white sheep being led and coerced by her groom, her parents, and her church.  Is there a website where I can get more info?

[doodlebug]

17 minutes ago, Normades said:

Wow! That was enlightening!  You're right that she definitely had choices since she was actually an adult and had the means to support herself unlike so many of these young girls (and boys).  I had no idea what she was like.  I did think her story about not being attracted to the man, but marrying and having children with him seemed a bit cruel.  She made sure to let the reader know that although she was not attracted to him, he was DEFINITELY attracted to her (how could he not be!).  I did cringe about their engagement being announced without her consent, but now I'm wondering if that's even true.  It seems she's engaging in revisionist history.  Well, now we've found one way the idea of giving women little to no choice comes in handy for a select few.  It absolves them of any responsibility when things go wrong.  She sure paints a picture of being the poor virginal, white sheep being led and coerced by her groom, her parents, and her church.  Is there a website where I can get more info?

I found it at a website called 'The Blair Necessities'.  It appears the folks who run it are not exactly Whelchel fans, but they do have screenshots that they claim came from Lisa's former online scrapbook.  Except for the fact that the entries are more than 10 years old, the bloggers could be members here, there is some hilarious snarking on Lisa's fundamentalism.  Amongst other things, since Steve fell off the roof while hanging Christmas lights, they wonder why Lisa doesn't realize his accident was Jesus' fault and renounce her faith.

http://theblairnecessities.blogspot.com/2006/07/when-daddy-fell-off-roof.html

[Fuzzysox]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:57 PM, ChiCricket said:

 But they didn't get married. Could be a coincidence..who knows.

They didn't get married because I don't think Ashley wanted to leave NY to live in the country. I'm sure that she loves NY more than the thought of marrying into fundie royalty.  

[Lunera]

WHAT THE FUCK!

[irisheyes]

1 minute ago, Lunera said:

WHAT THE FUCK!

Ummm, that’s terrifying. 

[Fuzzysox]

OUCH those dolls  sure are expensive. 

What kind of hussle does Jill have that she can afford those dolls? ( I know she sells that pink stuff) How much she money is she  making off the pyramid scheme she is shilling?  Does she make any money off her radio show? 

[Westiepeach]

10 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Ummm, that’s terrifying. 

My friend's sister-in-law makes these. Nightmare-inducing.

[Fostersmom]

Um... are they supposed to look like babies who passed away? 

[Temperance]

15 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

OUCH those dolls  sure are expensive. 

What kind of hussle does Jill have that she can afford those dolls? ( I know she sells that pink stuff) How much she money is she  making off the pyramid scheme she is shilling?  Does she make any money off her radio show? 

I think Jill was given these dolls as a gift from the maker.  

[doodlebug]

6 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I think Jill was given these dolls as a gift from the maker.  

Yep, I suspect Jill contacted her or was contacted by her and they cut a deal for Jill to plug her stuff on her blog in exchange for freebies.

Those dolls are creepy looking, IMO.  I have seen a whole lotta newborns in my day and those things look mottled and bruised.

[kokapetl]

There are YouTube videos of women pretending to give birth to those dolls. Very very weird. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

11 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

There are YouTube videos of women pretending to give birth to those dolls. Very very weird. 

I stumbled upon that shit at work one day. I was disturbed for the rest of the afternoon. Freaky!

[Nysha]

I adopted a Cabbage Patch doll at age 19, but those things are just creepy!

[Misslindsey]

They remind me of the babies from the My Fake Baby documentary. I just wanted an American Girl Doll when I was younger, not some nightmare inducing baby doll.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Misslindsey

[galaxychaser]

Lol there is a real baby Janessa to play with.

[louannems]

2 hours ago, kokapetl said:

There are YouTube videos of women pretending to give birth to those dolls. Very very weird. 

Quote

 

That sounds like those commander's wives, in the land of Gilead, pretending to be in labor.

Edited October 30, 2018 by louannems

[RedheadZombie]

12 hours ago, Normades said:

Wow! That was enlightening!  You're right that she definitely had choices since she was actually an adult and had the means to support herself unlike so many of these young girls (and boys).  I had no idea what she was like.  I did think her story about not being attracted to the man, but marrying and having children with him seemed a bit cruel.  She made sure to let the reader know that although she was not attracted to him, he was DEFINITELY attracted to her (how could he not be!).  I did cringe about their engagement being announced without her consent, but now I'm wondering if that's even true.  It seems she's engaging in revisionist history.  Well, now we've found one way the idea of giving women little to no choice comes in handy for a select few.  It absolves them of any responsibility when things go wrong.  She sure paints a picture of being the poor virginal, white sheep being led and coerced by her groom, her parents, and her church.  Is there a website where I can get more info?

I didn’t realize Lisa had divorced, so I did some quick googling.  How sympathetic her interviews were, up to and including her husband being described as a “much older” man.  She was 25 and he was 31.  He was actually present for one and the article hinted for causes of divorce - including his sexuality.  

I assume he’s well rid of her. 

[graefin]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I didn’t realize Lisa had divorced, so I did some quick googling.  How sympathetic her interviews were, up to and including her husband being described as a “much older” man.  She was 25 and he was 31.  He was actually present for one and the article hinted for causes of divorce - including his sexuality.  

I assume he’s well rid of her. 

He's 13 years older than her, according to Lisa. I'd say it's fair to say that's "much older."

https://charismania.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/lisa-whelchels-arranged-marriage-and-gods-voice/

Edited October 30, 2018 by graefin

[JoanArc]

Quote

Those dolls are creepy looking, IMO.  I have seen a whole lotta newborns in my day and those things look mottled and bruised.

Years ago, I remember reading about a woman who blogged about her difficult pregnancy with many, many issues. It was a well written blog, and the woman racked up a lot of sympathy and donations through the ordeal. It was, of course, a sham. She had everyone believing her, until she posted a picture of the newborn baby - which was really a doll similar to this. The 'baby' conveniently had many issues after it's 'birth' and 'died' soon after. I'm glad that bitch got busted.

[GeeGolly]

These dolls have been around forever and seem to be getting popular again. The ones JillR got look like not so great knock-offs from the originals. JillR should do grifting workshops, she's a shameless Master.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I found it at a website called 'The Blair Necessities'.  It appears the folks who run it are not exactly Whelchel fans, but they do have screenshots that they claim came from Lisa's former online scrapbook.  Except for the fact that the entries are more than 10 years old, the bloggers could be members here, there is some hilarious snarking on Lisa's fundamentalism.  Amongst other things, since Steve fell off the roof while hanging Christmas lights, they wonder why Lisa doesn't realize his accident was Jesus' fault and renounce her faith.

http://theblairnecessities.blogspot.com/2006/07/when-daddy-fell-off-roof.html

Well I’m not doing anything else today!

[galaxychaser]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

These dolls have been around forever and seem to be getting popular again. The ones JillR got look like not so great knock-offs from the originals. JillR should do grifting workshops, she's a shameless Master.

I know a good grifter. Fleeced a guy broke in less than 6 months. Power to them lol.

[Fuzzysox]

6 hours ago, graefin said:

He's 13 years older than her, according to Lisa. I'd say it's fair to say that's "much older."

https://charismania.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/lisa-whelchels-arranged-marriage-and-gods-voice/

I don't understand what she is getting to?

Does she want to say that her life was messed up because she thought God sent her the "wrong" guy? Hasn't she done interviews were she says that they still see each other and have dinner together? IDK not a good advertisement for fundydum.

[libgirl2]

15 hours ago, kokapetl said:

There are YouTube videos of women pretending to give birth to those dolls. Very very weird. 

WHAT??!!!! 

[Natalie68]

3 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

I know a good grifter. Fleeced a guy broke in less than 6 months. Power to them lol.

My dad was involved with one.  She stole all his money from his 50 year old business forcing it to close, stole all his actual money, stole the equity from his house while he lay dying, and we suspect actually killed him.  Then she moved onto another old man (she is on #3 THAT WE KNOW OF right now, we have some pretty good proof my dad wasn't the first).  That family found out about us from our court case and cold called me.  We were able to help them stop her right before she forged his name on POA paperwork like she did with our dad.  We had to get permission from her to enter our childhood home and see our dad.  She had been able to get all paperwork changed so he had no rights in his own home.  Law enforcement does nothing about these sociopaths.  I see nothing admirable about these types of people.  It killed my father, nearly killed this other man, and it takes a real piece of shit to steal from another.  You know what we were told by law enforcement?  They were together too long so they don't believe it was abuse.  My sister asked them if this is what they tell all abused spouses. There is a special place for people that steal from others who trust them.  As a victim, I don't find these people LOL funny.  I don't want to be rude but my dads bday just passed and its always a hard time knowing that we should have been able to save him but due to her scam she could and did bar us from seeing him legally.

I am always marveling at how much the Rods get for free.  I think its gross.

[xwordfanatik]

43 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

My dad was involved with one.  She stole all his money from his 50 year old business forcing it to close, stole all his actual money, stole the equity from his house while he lay dying, and we suspect actually killed him.  Then she moved onto another old man (she is on #3 THAT WE KNOW OF right now, we have some pretty good proof my dad wasn't the first).  That family found out about us from our court case and cold called me.  We were able to help them stop her right before she forged his name on POA paperwork like she did with our dad.  We had to get permission from her to enter our childhood home and see our dad.  She had been able to get all paperwork changed so he had no rights in his own home.  Law enforcement does nothing about these sociopaths.  I see nothing admirable about these types of people.  It killed my father, nearly killed this other man, and it takes a real piece of shit to steal from another.  You know what we were told by law enforcement?  They were together too long so they don't believe it was abuse.  My sister asked them if this is what they tell all abused spouses. There is a special place for people that steal from others who trust them.  As a victim, I don't find these people LOL funny.  I don't want to be rude but my dads bday just passed and its always a hard time knowing that we should have been able to save him but due to her scam she could and did bar us from seeing him legally.

I am always marveling at how much the Rods get for free.  I think its gross.

What a terrible thing that happened to your dad.  That sounds like a story I saw on an episode of Dateline.

[Natalie68]

39 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

What a terrible thing that happened to your dad.  That sounds like a story I saw on an episode of Dateline.

THANK YOU!  It really should be on Dateline.  I may have emailed them a time or two as well as contacted Keith Morrison.  It is a really common story and like our case, nothing gets done about it.  They even had her practice samples of the other guys signature and still did nothing (among other pieces of evidence).  The one thing I can say is it taught me how to investigate and how pitiful seniors are treated.  Sadly it has also taught me (and my sisters) not to trust people.  Right now I am working with a journalist who is interested in our story.  May go nowhere but it is our mission in life to make her pay (legally).

<back on topic> I am curious how well the Tim Rod is doing these days.  It must be nice for him to not have to share his food.

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, graefin said:

He's 13 years older than her, according to Lisa. I'd say it's fair to say that's "much older."

https://charismania.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/lisa-whelchels-arranged-marriage-and-gods-voice/

The source I googled gave his DOB as 1957, but I will assume she knows his age better than the internet. She was still an adult with money when she made her decision.  

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

My dad was involved with one.  She stole all his money from his 50 year old business forcing it to close, stole all his actual money, stole the equity from his house while he lay dying, and we suspect actually killed him.  Then she moved onto another old man (she is on #3 THAT WE KNOW OF right now, we have some pretty good proof my dad wasn't the first).  That family found out about us from our court case and cold called me.  We were able to help them stop her right before she forged his name on POA paperwork like she did with our dad.  We had to get permission from her to enter our childhood home and see our dad.  She had been able to get all paperwork changed so he had no rights in his own home.  Law enforcement does nothing about these sociopaths.  I see nothing admirable about these types of people.  It killed my father, nearly killed this other man, and it takes a real piece of shit to steal from another.  You know what we were told by law enforcement?  They were together too long so they don't believe it was abuse.  My sister asked them if this is what they tell all abused spouses. There is a special place for people that steal from others who trust them.  As a victim, I don't find these people LOL funny.  I don't want to be rude but my dads bday just passed and its always a hard time knowing that we should have been able to save him but due to her scam she could and did bar us from seeing him legally.

I am always marveling at how much the Rods get for free.  I think its gross.

OMG! that is just horrible. 

[ginger90]

It is horrible, and it should have been considered elder abuse. It’s awful there are people out there doing the same thing as I type this.

[Temperance]

@Natalie68  What happened to your dad and the family is awful.

With regards to Jill, I don't worry as much about them getting free stuff.  Jill seems pretty transparent, imo.  That people give her stuff for free says as much about them as it does Jill.  I also think the amount of free stuff Jill gets is sometimes overexaggerated. 

I'm not in dolls, but the doll maker gave them to Jill so that she would get some free publicity and people can buy her dolls. 

[GeeGolly]

From what I've read and heard JillR has received a free home, RV, a few cars, groceries, trips and RV repair. Not to mention a baby shower where she received gifts for herself.

Her husband prints tracts for free and neither of them have a job. Looks to me that almost everything they get is a gift.

[Natalie68]

13 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

It is horrible, and it should have been considered elder abuse. It’s awful there are people out there doing the same thing as I type this.

It was elder abuse and financial elder abuse.  We had paperwork, a letter from the lending company calling it fraud and she had to give the money back (she got the money the day after my dad died, approved though the day he died), but the DA was outright hostile to my sisters and attorney.  Our atty said he had never seen anyone treated this way.  The lender never followed through on prosecuting her because he DA didn't file charges (the DA or Sheriff never interviewed any of us, the victims in this crime nor did they interview any of our witnesses, this is SLO County Sheriff by the way) and they made US pay back the $154K or they would have foreclosed on the house (she forged my dads name on a reverse mortgage).  Then there was the over 100K spent on a lawsuit that ended up being settled because she kept delaying which made us spend more $ and we ran out.  Then she never did what the settlement said she had to but in order to enforce it WE would have had to spend more $ (she also broke into the house when specifically told she was not allowed in before we were given access, stole all my mom and dads jewelry and vandalized my dads car so we had to spend a lot to get it running so we could sell it).  She knew the system.  Last I heard she sent the disabled daughter of the last victim a letter being purposefully mean and semi threatening so that family had to spend more $ getting a cease and desist letter out, again, the Sheriff did nothing.  Oh, and this woman has been married since 1971.  I suspect her husband is in on it.

<topic>Wonder if anyone that knows the Rod's have been suspicious of how they can afford to live like they do yet not have enough $ to actually feed their kids?